True professional. Funny though how you would expect complex electronic troubleshooting, with scopes like I used in EE class, but in keeping with Occam's razor (solution is what is most simple), he just taps the thing to find the noise. Hey- it works so all good. Guy goes to mechanic with an annoying ticking in engine he has had for months. Mechanic taps the side and in 4 seconds, the noise is gone. Charges the guy $100. Guy gladly pays. He questions the old mechanic. I am happy, but dude, it was 4 seconds. Why $100. Mechanic doesn't stop cleaning his hands, smiles and says, tapping on engine- $3. Knowing where to tap gets you to the $100. Have a nice day.
Sorry that this amp came back, but I did enjoy and learn from both videos. I have a newish HRD series 4 I purchased in May of 2021 and its been working reliably with the common behaviors that you and others noted in these amps. I did open the back and visually inspect the board. Unlike the HRD Series 4 you are working on, the 5W resistors (R78 and R79) raised up off the board and have insulating tubing on the leads. Now this is the only change I saw to improve reliability. Maybe a few more of the low or zero cost changes will be made in the HRD Series 5 or 6 :). On the touchy volume controls, one zero cost "mod"I have been using at gigs and practices for the last few months is plugging into the 2nd lower gain input. Once I dealt with my inner 15 year old guitarist ("You used the LOW gain input?!?! How could you!?!)), I was able to run the clean channel at 3 or 4 on the knob compared to 2 to 3. I also noted the tightening of the bass which helped playing clean on the neck pickup. Thanks again for the great videos!
The low-gain input is like wearing pink-shows your self-confidence. 🤣 Seriously, though, I think the low-gain input on just about any amp gives a more responsive feel. Vastly underrated!
$300 to repair a $350 amp. That's really sad. I just bought a 1965 Epiphone Galaxie for $200, and $35 worth of parts later, it's rocking hard. And it can be maintained and serviced indefinitely. There are plenty of affordable options out there that are not circuit board based tube amps. Love your work, Lyle, and thanks for being the best amp repair channel on TH-cam!
Well, thank you, but remember the Hot Rod Deluxe IV 1x12 sells new for $1000. The $300 to fix them/make them not catch on fire is because Fender saved the wrong $20 in making them.
@@PsionicAudio I totally understand. Actually, I didn't realize that they were that pricey now. I hope that you understand that I was not bashing your price to repair it, your prices are totally reasonable. I just wish that players would consider the long run when it comes to such an investment and think about options that are designed to last.
@@jimmyjoefine The average player cannot possibly understand the inner workings and construction of an amp anymore, so its folly to blame them. The only thing you can do now days is watch and support these kinds of videos, or talk to your local amp repair person. It's also somewhat of a crap-shoot cause not all of the Hot-Rods are monday/friday amps like this one and will actually run quite well.
@@cloudconnect I get it. I've had them, they usually bring about $350 used in my neck of the woods. I never keep amps with circuit board construction like this one because they have proved to be problematic to me. These amps have a limited life span at best, so I hate to see poor, struggling musicians purchase disposable equipment.
Thanks for the volume pot explanation. I have seen multiple claims online saying that the taper was the reason the control is so sensitive as to be unusable.
Man, that brings back memories! My mom's cousin was our TV repairman. I can still remember him coming over with his extension mirror so he could see the picture from behind the set. And that box of TUBES! I'd like to get my hands on those now. Probably some good ones in there.
Another great video. This one had us on pins and needles waiting to see the outcome. Seemed liked it was going to be the ribbon cable when you hit that spot on the board. Interesting find. Good work as always! There are just soo many things to go wrong in these mass produced amps...
Nice video, as always. Also, replacing the original speaker with an inefficient (which is good!), cheap, and decent-sounding Jensen MOD 50 will give you even less volume and more control. This, along with a 12AY7 in V1, allows me to hear the power tubes slightly break up while rehearsing or on stage, which never happened to me before.
Not all "audio" taper pots are the same. Some will match (logarithmically) to our ear, better than others. Cheaper ones often have a sweep that is somewhere between a linear and logarithmic. There is a science to it that is probably not relied on as much as it should be in the engineering stages.
Funny, while watching the video, I thought it would be the speaker plug, plugged into the wrong jack. Now I see you found the problem. Good catch, but I have had the same problem with a speaker change out, and the customer plugged the speaker cable into the other, auxiliary jack. 😀
Could I do the upgrade myself? My dad made sure I learned it. He had this repaired TVs from 57 to 89 in LA California on LaBrea and Sata Monica. I was gifted with the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Mod 3 for free and I live in Ventura. I'm 65 and cannot drive do to a pain pump and it dose slow things here. I'm making guitars here.
11:10, those special crimpers are expensive as hell! The electronics lab I work in buys them and I don't think they're worth the $80. Looks like you're doing just fine without it.
The 12av7 /5965 has the same gain as ay but higher conductance like a 12 at . 5965 works as a good cathode follower there is some room to play with the gain there.
Hello from NM...I just bought me a display model HR deluxe & so my journey begins...just found your vids. You do any out of state work? Thank you for your videos!
I vehemently HATE lead free solder. "IF" I have to use it, it is usually on a bonded ceramic terminal block in Tektronix test gear, and that Tektronix spec stuff was 6% silver. I use denatured alcohol to remove flux. I have had flux remover bleach some plastics out badly, including circuit boards. One side benefit was my cordless drill had a big beached out splotch on it, so I knew it was mine from 50 yards away. Lead solder is like vinyl asbestos floor tile. As long as it is not giving off dust or smoke and you keep it out of bodily orifices and cavities, it's safe.
Audio taper pots are the work of the devil. I think I’ll be changing out dropping resistors on every amp that’s had filter issues from now on. It doesn’t really cost anything and it’s better than having a “come back” over it. Those 2 and 3 watt metal oxide resistors are usually pretty dang tough.
Linear taper pots are the work of the devil. At least for most volume controls. Or maybe you like your volume to do most of its work in the first third of the sweep?
Ouch! Snap Crackle & Pop! That could hurt. As for myself, I typically use those ubiquitous green plastic, fiberglass-reinforced, heat resistant probing sticks from yesteryear, made specifically for poking around high voltage tube circuits, including televisions....
It's a shame Fender builds these amps to such a poor quality. I really like the hot rod deluxe and deville. Two of my favorite bands play deville's. I would buy one, but I'm just scared to trust it. If they made them with a proper PCB and parts that won't self destruct a week after the warranty ended I would buy one. It makes me wonder how hard it would be to design a better PCB, and have a fab like PCB way print up a replacement. 🤔
Annoying bad luck. Eventually inevitable when you work on a lot of amps. The worst is when the customer goes elsewhere and doesn't come back to have the problem identified and fixed ! One reason why its important to charge realistically for good work.
I like the quality of your videos, but if I was to give you a tip it would be to use a bit more light at your bench so that your camera does not continually re-adjust contrast settings every time you bring your hand (reflective) in front of the lens.
True professional. Funny though how you would expect complex electronic troubleshooting, with scopes like I used in EE class, but in keeping with Occam's razor (solution is what is most simple), he just taps the thing to find the noise. Hey- it works so all good.
Guy goes to mechanic with an annoying ticking in engine he has had for months. Mechanic taps the side and in 4 seconds, the noise is gone. Charges the guy $100. Guy gladly pays. He questions the old mechanic. I am happy, but dude, it was 4 seconds. Why $100. Mechanic doesn't stop cleaning his hands, smiles and says, tapping on engine- $3. Knowing where to tap gets you to the $100. Have a nice day.
I like the way you hold on to the segment, when you trim a component lead, that wants to fly into the bowels of the amp.
Good FOD Control.
Sorry that this amp came back, but I did enjoy and learn from both videos. I have a newish HRD series 4 I purchased in May of 2021 and its been working reliably with the common behaviors that you and others noted in these amps. I did open the back and visually inspect the board. Unlike the HRD Series 4 you are working on, the 5W resistors (R78 and R79) raised up off the board and have insulating tubing on the leads. Now this is the only change I saw to improve reliability. Maybe a few more of the low or zero cost changes will be made in the HRD Series 5 or 6 :). On the touchy volume controls, one zero cost "mod"I have been using at gigs and practices for the last few months is plugging into the 2nd lower gain input. Once I dealt with my inner 15 year old guitarist ("You used the LOW gain input?!?! How could you!?!)), I was able to run the clean channel at 3 or 4 on the knob compared to 2 to 3. I also noted the tightening of the bass which helped playing clean on the neck pickup. Thanks again for the great videos!
The low-gain input is like wearing pink-shows your self-confidence. 🤣 Seriously, though, I think the low-gain input on just about any amp gives a more responsive feel. Vastly underrated!
$300 to repair a $350 amp. That's really sad. I just bought a 1965 Epiphone Galaxie for $200, and $35 worth of parts later, it's rocking hard. And it can be maintained and serviced indefinitely. There are plenty of affordable options out there that are not circuit board based tube amps. Love your work, Lyle, and thanks for being the best amp repair channel on TH-cam!
Well, thank you, but remember the Hot Rod Deluxe IV 1x12 sells new for $1000.
The $300 to fix them/make them not catch on fire is because Fender saved the wrong $20 in making them.
@@PsionicAudio I totally understand. Actually, I didn't realize that they were that pricey now. I hope that you understand that I was not bashing your price to repair it, your prices are totally reasonable. I just wish that players would consider the long run when it comes to such an investment and think about options that are designed to last.
@@jimmyjoefine The average player cannot possibly understand the inner workings and construction of an amp anymore, so its folly to blame them. The only thing you can do now days is watch and support these kinds of videos, or talk to your local amp repair person. It's also somewhat of a crap-shoot cause not all of the Hot-Rods are monday/friday amps like this one and will actually run quite well.
@@cloudconnect I get it. I've had them, they usually bring about $350 used in my neck of the woods. I never keep amps with circuit board construction like this one because they have proved to be problematic to me. These amps have a limited life span at best, so I hate to see poor, struggling musicians purchase disposable equipment.
Thanks for the volume pot explanation. I have seen multiple claims online saying that the taper was the reason the control is so sensitive as to be unusable.
Just had the same thing on a Super Twin. Came back with a dodgy solder joint on a 10k dropper.
Good follow-up on a techs methods and thoughts. I can remember my Dad explaining similar scenarios in his B&W TV repair days.
Man, that brings back memories! My mom's cousin was our TV repairman. I can still remember him coming over with his extension mirror so he could see the picture from behind the set. And that box of TUBES! I'd like to get my hands on those now. Probably some good ones in there.
I like using a 5751 in V1 on my Blues Jr. headroom seems to stay a little cleaner at a higher volume.
Man, a part of me wishes I could Ship you my Deville for all of these upgrades and futureproofs
I'm really enjoying watching. Glad i have a great tech. But it's nice to learn.
Another great video. This one had us on pins and needles waiting to see the outcome. Seemed liked it was going to be the ribbon cable when you hit that spot on the board. Interesting find. Good work as always! There are just soo many things to go wrong in these mass produced amps...
Nice video, as always. Also, replacing the original speaker with an inefficient (which is good!), cheap, and decent-sounding Jensen MOD 50 will give you even less volume and more control. This, along with a 12AY7 in V1, allows me to hear the power tubes slightly break up while rehearsing or on stage, which never happened to me before.
Do you recommend using the Dr. Watson Lion Tamer?
Not all "audio" taper pots are the same. Some will match (logarithmically) to our ear, better than others. Cheaper ones often have a sweep that is somewhere between a linear and logarithmic. There is a science to it that is probably not relied on as much as it should be in the engineering stages.
Funny, while watching the video, I thought it would be the speaker plug, plugged into the wrong jack. Now I see you found the problem. Good catch, but I have had the same problem with a speaker change out, and the customer plugged the speaker cable into the other, auxiliary jack. 😀
Don't buy a crimping tool. You've got a Piergiacomi PNG5000 on it's way!
Could I do the upgrade myself? My dad made sure I learned it. He had this repaired TVs from 57 to 89 in LA California on LaBrea and Sata Monica. I was gifted with the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe Mod 3 for free and I live in Ventura. I'm 65 and cannot drive do to a pain pump and it dose slow things here. I'm making guitars here.
11:10, those special crimpers are expensive as hell! The electronics lab I work in buys them and I don't think they're worth the $80. Looks like you're doing just fine without it.
Ready to get my two amps done with your mods.
The 12av7 /5965 has the same gain as ay but higher conductance like a 12 at . 5965 works as a good cathode follower there is some room to play with the gain there.
Hello from NM...I just bought me a display model HR deluxe & so my journey begins...just found your vids. You do any out of state work? Thank you for your videos!
Good work. Curious what your other HRDX mods are.
Those loop-forming pliers you referred to are *expensive*, something like 150 bucks; I noticed that Brad in Australia has a set.
Have you tried a 12DW7 in the second tube slot?
I vehemently HATE lead free solder. "IF" I have to use it, it is usually on a bonded ceramic terminal block in Tektronix test gear, and that Tektronix spec stuff was 6% silver. I use denatured alcohol to remove flux. I have had flux remover bleach some plastics out badly, including circuit boards. One side benefit was my cordless drill had a big beached out splotch on it, so I knew it was mine from 50 yards away. Lead solder is like vinyl asbestos floor tile. As long as it is not giving off dust or smoke and you keep it out of bodily orifices and cavities, it's safe.
It’s the small things.
Gad to see you solderd that that resistor to mil spec, cut first and solder second therefore preserving the initial joint.
I hate those ribbon connectors. How much more would it cost Fender to use something like a molex connector? Pennies no doubt.
Audio taper pots are the work of the devil.
I think I’ll be changing out dropping resistors on every amp that’s had filter issues from now on. It doesn’t really cost anything and it’s better than having a “come back” over it. Those 2 and 3 watt metal oxide resistors are usually pretty dang tough.
Linear taper pots are the work of the devil. At least for most volume controls. Or maybe you like your volume to do most of its work in the first third of the sweep?
Interesting, my HRD R44 is a 56K. Sounds like there is some variablity in amps within the same series...(see my earlier Comment)
Note to self: check/change dropping R when replacing leaky HT filter caps. Huh.
What would happen if you replaced the 250k audio taper pot with, say, a 500k or 1M audio taper pot?
You've have way too much low end and a big increase in gain - in the wrong direction.
Very informative and great video with the fault finding techniques..Nice job Lyle, thanks for sharing..Ed.uk..😊
A friend of mine once told me that tube amps are a moving target. I now understand what he meant
Is this another case like Microsoft and General Motors? Just get it out, we have to make our sales numbers for the quarter!
Just a heads up to everyone, make sure your probing stick isn't one of the GC anti static alignment tools. They are quite conductive.
Ouch! Snap Crackle & Pop! That could hurt. As for myself, I typically use those ubiquitous green plastic, fiberglass-reinforced, heat resistant probing sticks from yesteryear, made specifically for poking around high voltage tube circuits, including televisions....
It's a shame Fender builds these amps to such a poor quality. I really like the hot rod deluxe and deville. Two of my favorite bands play deville's. I would buy one, but I'm just scared to trust it. If they made them with a proper PCB and parts that won't self destruct a week after the warranty ended I would buy one. It makes me wonder how hard it would be to design a better PCB, and have a fab like PCB way print up a replacement. 🤔
Annoying bad luck. Eventually inevitable when you work on a lot of amps. The worst is when the customer goes elsewhere and doesn't come back to have the problem identified and fixed ! One reason why its important to charge realistically for good work.
I like the quality of your videos, but if I was to give you a tip it would be to use a bit more light at your bench so that your camera does not continually re-adjust contrast settings every time you bring your hand (reflective) in front of the lens.
Damn yer gettin gray. What the heck happened?
Uhhh, do you see some of the amps he restores?
At age 30 I had kids. By 31 I was grey. I blame the Great Norovirus Incident of '02.
Seriously, how did a 2 year old shit on the ceiling?
Gray hair is hereditary ... we get it from our children.
@@BradsGuitarGarage That makes me pull my hair out. Why I ain't got much left.
@@PsionicAudio The kids got talent. Gonna go places.