Zeroing Works Differently Than You Think || Escape from Tarkov In-Depth Testing / Guide / Tips
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.พ. 2020
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Thanks for the love on the video everyone! I totally forgot to mention that I talked to Nikita after the podcast was over and was able to pretty easily clarify my point via text and after he said he felt bad and actually apologized for then confusion. It was wholesome AF, he genuinely felt bad, but as we could all tell it was just a big misunderstanding, just needed to share as it just gave me even more respect Nik, he puts up with so much shit and definitely tries his best.
you should pin that comment ;)
Nikita's a fucking saint
I agree with you there is just to many stupid people that dosent understand how guns work
@Steve power I think in general he was just trying to say bullets should arc not just fall, but you are right
@Steve power you guys use a 100m BZO?
Whenever I miss my shots, I got Veritas videos to explain to my squad mates why I’m missing, it’s not because I’m bad or anything...
Smort
Hello again from the past 5 tarkov videos i just watched
@bones - 👋
ScavsAteMyLegs not laugh funny didn’t
Unfortunately zeroing doesn't actually make a difference at point blank range my friend.
To sum it up: the labeling is wrong. 100 meters is meaningless without extra information. Let's get rid of all implications and use a pseudo unit instead. Clicks.
If you turn the knob in one direction, the shot goes up; if you turned it the other direction, the shot goes down. By how much? It depends on your ammo and your distance.
Sounds complicated.. but this is already how the game worked so far. Only that it was labeled with "100 meters". But for what bullet would it hit accurately on 100m distance? Ask the devs.
This false labeling is like going to a gas station and having a pump that allows you to pre-select "100 km distance". Guess what: milage depends on your vehicle, driving style and even the elevation of your road. There is a reason why we order fuel by volume.
Very well said!
If I may point out my opinion, I always thought people knew that you are zeroing the sights ( scope ), not doing precise calculations with the actual configuration. I think this is more of a philosophical problem - eastern vs western way of handling guns. As a eastern guy that got conscripted and fired up AKs, I know its not accurate and 100m ( one increment on the AK ironsights) doesn't always mean 100m. On the other hand I suppose somebody that have expirience with NATO guns will find it very confusing.
Also, its sad that we as a community that is passionate about the game cannot discuss changes in a civil and friendly manner, without resorting to verbal abuse.
Yes, all 50 minutes of this video can be summed up here. The first 5 minutes is this smoothbrain explaining what he is *going* to talk about. Cut to the fucking chase and explain the core argument, provide 2 or 3 supporting examples, and skip the stupid rhetorical devices. I swear, we need to teach kids how to speak professionally in school instead of patting them on the back for their shitty 5 paragraph essays.
This is actually brilliant. Only one car with one driver on one day in one region would have that same mileage. Is this how the weapons/optics/rounds were programmed? Do I need to find the correct setup and that’s the only setup that will zero properly?
I want a proper calibration station in my hideout... That would be glorious, calibrating your scope to fit your gun/ammo combo.
Hideout would have to be a bit longer. I have zeroed a rifle for 25 yards and it's hilarious how off it is at 50! Sure there are funky ways to hold over a target at 15 yards for a 100 yard zero but it's a virtual world, give us the distance!
...and then you are dead to a pistoliero in first 3 minutes of the raid and all your calibrations are gone.
@@sterhax alot of it could mean down to the weapon and ammo. You can do a 25m 300m zero and the poi will be about the same with a little bigger spread depending on the rifles moa.
The biggest problem I find is tarkov is the numbers in the right seems to be off, but I could just be really bad a judging distance.
@@007stareye maybe a preset thingy could help with that (you calibrate and then save the preset for that specific loadout) if you die you can assemble everything easly and its already calibrated to what you set up ealier
@@sterhax Hideout would also have to save your settings. Currently you can't even set fire mode and tactical devices in your hideout.
Wait, you guys AREN’T doing the Pythagorean theorem to figure out the exact distance and zeroing needed every time you see an enemy? Casuals.
Honestly everyone who has played a shooting game where there are real ballistics in a game do it naturally at a point where they just know that they will kill him here with his head there
wait wait wait, you dont have a second person as a spotter doing it for you? Casual....
Please, pythag takes far to long, trig is where it's at
Carry the two, or else...!
The Pythagorean theorem would not get you on target. Your bullet doesn't travel over a straight line. You need a ballistic motion calculation.
The test with US ammo was eye opening, thanks man
Hidden message: Do not use US ammoxD
@@DeadMenTNT i'm fine with people using it ^^
Dead Men Tell No Tales unless you want nerf wars
@@fidgetwidget9116 Or ASG sort of.
If Mikhail Kalashnikov knew you put capitalist ammo in his rifle he would spit on you
The number is obviously how many scavs away from you the gun will shoot.
maybe its how many scavs will black out your legs between you and the target XD
@@VeritasGames yeah, and in the split second you just don't have the time to calculate
I think this could pretty much be summed up as this: "The zeroing numbers in the game represent the zeroing distance for a predetermined ammo type with its unique muzzle velocity. This means that using a different ammo type with a different muzzle velocity will cause the zeroing of the scope to be off for all distances. This should be changed to a system of 'clicks' instead of meters, allowing the user to zero the scope manually and preventing them from assuming the zeroing range displayed is accurate."
thanks man, saved me some time. Couldn't stand the presentation here unfortunately
@@thisandablunt same jesus christ this was a long video for a relative simple concept, and repeating the same thing over and over for an hour
Or just make it zero correctly for the configuration
@@MyLonewolf25 Well, the problem is that you can load multiple ammo types into a single magazine, meaning the zeroing would have to change between each shot.
@@beppyboo make it zero upon load in with whatever’s chambered
Problem solved
Problem staying solved
As someone who actually shoots alot, everything you said makes sense and is how irl guns work. I find it strange many people are confused by this. Great job in the video.
And as someone who never had a gun in his hands, everything he said made perfect sense too. People love to jump to conclusions even if their conclusion is based on an Initial misunderstanding.
especially bsg when you see their videos and they work side by side with these weapons irl to get the most accurate sound and use cases.
@@smashboy14 But I'm a streamer my opinion matters,I'm important,I know everything,I'm next in line to God...that's the problem..Lord forbid you keep your mouth shut or just day I Don't Know..Some of these people involved in the stream are just streamers that's all and shouldn't even be involved in game development
Cause people are dumb AF, and that's how we build patience...
Shooter here as well, I remember being pretty confused by zeroing until I bought my first rifle. It's incredibly simple once you know it, but it's not a commonly understood concept for the uninitiated.
People are still misunderstanding the point, probably because of the video length. So here's and ACCURATE TL;DR
How zero works now:
-Zero is in meters
-The default zero settings for any combination of scope and round is based on what BSG has as the "Default round"
-Zero will not be accurate for other rounds and depending on how much the velocity differs can make bullets go way higher or lower than the reticle and zero state for that distance
How he proposes to fix the problem:
-Zero works in clicks
-Clicks range from -10 to 10 (Including 0)
-The default "0 clicks" setting would be based on what BSG has as the default round at 50 meters
-Clicks would then consistently adjust the point of aim
Effectively this means that in the current system if your zero doesn't match, you'll have to guess based on bullet velocity ASSUMING you know what the default round for that caliber is in terms of zero. For instance, you won't know how much lower us is going than ps on the sks, so at 100 meters you may aim about 1 inch (on your monitor) above their head, but your rounds are still going 2 inches below them, but with Veritas' system, all you would do is find the appropriate click, for this case lest just say 6 at 100 meters, and then you can physically or mentally note that for next time you use US ammunition rather than PS ammunition
And no neither Veritas' nor Nikita is advocating for adjusting zero automagically via whatever round you're about to fire, that's dumb and unrealistic and everyone realizes that.
@Sasha Lemay nah people just didn't watch it through, I really liked this system in arma, and the more hardcore dayz mods, and I see bsg implementing it in a easy and fun way so I'm down for it
@@BombShot Honestly the video should just have a 3 min TL DR before the vid....
@@Schnezler yeah would've helped but I can say from experience that's not something you think about until after you hit upload
This system would be extremely fun and interesting idk how practical it is to think of it being a thing you do while in the field you could if you wanted I guess but ideally you go to your range and take the platform and scope with the kind of ammo you prefer and set it up (maybe even make a way to make it the new default scope setting for that gun so you aren’t constantly adjusting scopes) then you go into the field and you bring said platform and ammo and it’s accurate at 50 yards or whatever distance you zero at
@@sparks6177 From experience in dayz its pretty practical
My math teacher is laughing right now because i told her i wouldn't need this after high school..
Na your math teacher is laughing because old mate here isn't even using BEDMAS, let alone correct mathematics. I'm guessing he dumbed it down and didn't use sin or cos for simplicity, but the equations are just all wrong.
I love how good of a listener you are, how much respect you show, but if and when you know you are being misunderstood I think it's really important to feel comfortable interrupting and telling people "No that's not what I'm saying." Even if you have to say it over and over and it becomes awkward. Letting people carry on arguing when they don't even know what they're really arguing against is really it's own form of rudeness in my opinion lmao. Especially if they're being blatantly dismissive. Remember that you are smarter and more curious than most, including other popular streamers. You are clearly already used to having to dumb down / fully explain your ideas from scratch for people. And It's hard to do it live, but all your fans have your back.
It is not rude to stop other people from misrepresenting you.
Sorry you had to go through this though.. I would have shot my brains out on stream if I had to sit through that. Thanks for everything you do.
Very well said and completely true... when you’re right, you’re right. Worrying about hurting someone’s feelings often just perpetuates the problem ( ignorance in this case).... everybody doesn’t need a trophy, just sayin.
@@itiswhatitis1775 being honest, I think it's more something he should really only discuss with Nikita/ the devs personally. He clearly knows how firearms work down to a T, as do the devs. If he sat there trying to explain it to a group of gamers who may know significantly less, it's gonna be like explaining high level physics to someone that only took high school algebra.
Dude good shit
You, sir, are doing an ASTONISHING job with making all these issues come to light. Thank You. I hope Nikita sees it.
I was so frustrated during the podcast when everyone missed your point completely and started going down tangents of misunderstanding. Glad you made this video and hope that everyone can get on the same page of the point you were initially trying to make. gg's bro! 👍
To many chiefs not enough Indians..Streamers that think they know what the fuck they are talking about
@@SpaceRanger187 This is exactly why I do not watch the stream. Many points are valid but not enough info is correct IMO
That little uneasy shuffle you do in your chair when you realize the discussion is completely misunderstood and not going at all how you want it to made me laugh a little.
This. This is such a mood.
Watching the clips from the FAQ made me want to pull my hair out. People being dismissive of an idea while not even understanding what that idea is aggravates me to no end.
This. This is such a mood.
It’s so fucking prevalent in this community as well. Any suggestion to improve the game is met with contempt from the community.
I dont hunt i am not ex military But i understood you perfectly both when you talk about it live and now when watching Again. I thought it was very Wierd nobody seemed to understand you.
I knew what he was talking about from the first 5 minutes and I don't own a firearm. I have shot some a few times before though.
Some people listen to learn. Some listen to reply.
It doesn't help kotton is high all the fkn time.
It seems like they are not practiced Marksman
i felt so disappointed with mankind when he was so misunderstood
Killer video, dude. Glad you were able to dive into this topic. It needed to have a detailed analysis and explanation around it.
I wish there was an outdoor target range - where you could set the sun position and have range of 100-500
I'm an experienced competitive shooter in 3-Gun, IPSC, IDPA and the zeroing in this game is maddening. Try shooting the sniper on top of the towers on Customs when you have no idea what the zero is of your gun, scope and ammunition.
You are 100% accurate on both your description and explanation of a simple solution that doesn't add "helpers" to the game that would casualize it.
Your solution is how it works in real life. When I pull out my Remington 700PSS chambered in 6.5mm Creedmore I go out to the range and I zero it with my Swarovski optics at 100m, 300m and 600m. Now I know, with that ammo, with that powder load, with that bullet and with mildot hold over I can shoot it at a reasonable level of consistency to 1000m and every distance short of that range.
It doesn't matter what the cartridge manufacturer says (they never would because there are far too many variables) what the rifle manufacturer says or what the scope manufacturer says. This is largely why there are no numbers on most scopes. You have to zero the scope with your rifle using your ammo to build a reliable zero at a given range.
exactly! Customs is the best example of this
Being an avid lomg range shooter amd a firearms collecter who has had extensive training, i can say that the zero in this game as you described is broken. The simple fact is that noone in the podcast understood what you were saying. I understood perfectly. I feel for you trying to explain a broken mechanic to a group of guys wjo aimply dont truly understand ballistics.
It is a bit funny that people who love the game due to "realism" don't actually understand how real life works. All of theses guys need to brush up on Minutes of ANGLE, Milliradians and external ballistics etc. All of the guys responding to him without understanding what they are even talking about is sad and lost a lot of respect for them. Its not big deal if someone doesnt understand something, it is however stupid if you dont understand something and then open your mouth.
Anyways glad to see another EFT player who feels the same.
@@shooter13 Yeah. That bugged the fuck out of me.
@@shooter13 Same here, the utilitarianism of this game makes me cringe.
I understood it as well. Thank God Veritas is vocal about that issue.
I feel like pestily knows what veritable is talking about as he served in the military but he just doesn’t snipe or use ranges scopes so he is just somewhat “irrelevant” in the discussion when he has less experience in game using snipers from what I’ve seen, I may miss him using snipers all the time but from what I can tell he loves to grind and get in close range fights, I could be very wrong and just haven’t really seen him sniping
Yeah, you got a crap-ton of unnecessary hate during the podcast. Really upset me that you were putting reasonable points forward but everyone else wasn't quite getting it.
Mind linking where in the podcast they talk about this stuff?
@@bobbobson4935 ? most of video is about the podcast... try watching it man
@@Wardinson he was just asking for the original podcast what an annoying response xD
I would love for them to add more effects when a bullet hits something, wood flying off a tree, dirt kicking up, etc. In this game, it's really hard to tell where the bullet went in the middle of a long-distance engagement unless it makes sparks. If there were more impact effects I believe that would help a lot of people.
Dude this has explained why i havnt hit targets... I have been playing just field testing on live players and precise shots that should be landing are in fact becoming what i call "ghost rounds". This video has essentially put the puzzle pieces together for myself and my little band of players. Thank you for going so into depth on these scientifically as i now am very up to date on the issue!
Well made Veritas, Easily understandable! I'm not sure why everyone was confused but i saw in your streams how many people had no idea what you were talking about and how frustrating it was trying to explain it over and over to them. Love the content!
Its because they're used to utilitarian practices the Tarkov developers do instead of making things correct.
Streams were super frustrating to watch when you knew exactly what he meant from the get-go. You could leave for 30 minutes and come back and he'd still be explaining it to people who couldn't comprehend as he slowly lost his patience lol.
@@Dollarhax Thats what you get, when desktop warriors talk about real weapon mechanics... Probably never zeroed a weapon in their entire life, only shooting rented guns on ranches...
I guess most players are just to stupid
@@attackhelicopter7403 thats the most disappointing part.. a lot of those streamers do shoot, or have served their country. thats why its so unfathomable they struggle to understand.
they spent the whole time straw manning him, telling veritas what he was saying instead of actually listening to what he was saying. so simple
This is the video where everyone understands what he was saying now. I would like to see the other content creators reaction to this video.
Renè J yea he clearly doesn’t understand him whatsoever
@@JensenDK110 his response was so shitty and negative I unsubscribed and unfollowed Kotton, plus his chat has gotten so fucking toxic lately.
@@JensenDK110 Kotton is everything else but stupid. He merely didn't get Veritas' point at the time. Now he will.
Why they are just streamers..They don't know what the fuck they are talking about and don't even need to be involved in the conversation..
Would you like some life advice and what you need to do..even thou we don't know each other and I know nothing about you..same thing
Stop putting Streamers in A they are somebody's catagoy
Don't know why you got so much hate man your dead on with IRL firearms, Tarkov already makes you set everything else up may as well learn to zero your rifles for precision shooting.
“The fucking coriolis effect”
Excuse you but it’s not an accurate sim until you are laying down in the dirt doing algebra to account for the rotation of the earth.
at 08:07 your explanation was pretty clear thoug i dont understand how it could have been misinterpreted by so many peoples .....
Summary: the same zeroing number will give different results on different equipment, so instead of using fake distance number (and confusing players) allow us to preset our own zeroing. I think that's what you mean?
much thanks
Something to always remember with bullets, is a bullet will fall to the ground at the same speed as if you dropped it from your hand. Certain bullets just travel further than others.
honestly man i am only 20 minutes through this video and you have already hit so many problems i have been having right on the head!!! i was wondering where my bullets evaporate to all the time lol i had an idea it had something to do with bullet drop but had NO IDEA it was that massive thank you for the info!!!
People hating even in your instagram just because they disagree with you? Damn that's some lowlife level of people...
The best thing about this is that you have a 50 min video to argumentate and we get some Tarkov Science content
you should see reddit
reddit, the forums it doesn't matter, i have learned that this community is pretty trash(like most MilSim comms are bc of the EOE's and wanna be military dudes)i don't know why i thought it would be any different but i did, the biggest issue is most of them think that simply playing the game gives you the knowledge to talk about stuff like this but if you didn't understand it coming into the game... you wont understand it now after playing if you never perused it outside the community, reality is you wont become a weapons expert from playing a damn video game but they don't understand that, and then they go around spouting bullshit and being shitbags.
im not a damn expert and don't claim to be but i have shot consistently over the course of 17 years and what V is saying would help a lot but because it is simple.
they think its not realistic, im not even joking i have seen the comments about "that just sounds too easy, breaks the hardcore spirit of the game" its like bro, it IS that easy, its basic fucking math at best!
People hating on others because they dont agree??? Welcome to current society man.
Probably those flat earth believers.
Im with you V. This "change" wouldn't even change the flavor of tarkov. this would actually fit in well. Might be to much for a casual though but im for the change. Now if only it was worth using the Bullets that need this change.
This is much less for a casual as they won't get frustrated at the first attempt to try zeroing. If they never zeroed in the first place, nothing would change for them. Did you even watch the video?
@@QckSGaming agreed, while more complicated for someone who has never picked up a real gun before it would still be way more simple than having to guess some secret magic number picked by the devs.
EFT is not a "casual" game. Casual players will not keep coming back to a non-casual game for casual gameplay. That makes nooooo sense.
@@QckSGaming Ofcourse i did but my statement still stands if a casual player picks up the game, finding out you have to manually zero your guns will be daunting. Currently a causal player wouldnt even pay attention to the "zeroing" currently implemented but also wouldnt scratch their head if they played with the zeroing and saw 50m or 100m. Thats because this way is common in most other shooters. Hence why i would imply that even though the "zeroing" is incorrect, it is more casual friendly than just the ticking. Ticks up and down has no context for a casual player and would probably leave them confused unless they look it up.
@@caydenmartiny8247 your not really guessing a secret number your setting a zero, even if it is incorrect slightly or by alot. To a casual player seeing 50m 100m etc. is much more friendly and straight forward than a tick up or down. I agree that it would be way more simple on a deeper level but to a casual player who only looks at it surface level is going to scratch their head
I know this is an old video, but thank you for all of the hard work on this. I am doing a linear algebra project in college and working on how realistic tarkov's bullet drop is compared to IRL and this video and google doc provided has been a HUGE help. Thank you Veritas for all your hard work!
Sweet jesus thank you! I tried to explain this to my firearms bambi friends and it went right over their heads. This video helped explain in detail what I couldn't put into words.
better tldr as i can't watch the whole thing rn: guns seem to zero to their default ammo not your current ammo
Tldr: Implement clicks as zeroing instead of distance, because currently it only works for a specific bullet per gun. let us figure out the range/bullet drop and needed zeroing ourself (for each round) and adjust it in clicks acordingly.
@@TryHans999 no hes not, hes saying thats a dumb solution, hes advertising a system with more incremental non range based adjustment, tldr on that, Scopes should retain all the elements they currently do, but instead of being a 50 meter zero, its on click #0 and the adjustments would have more variation, so for instance, at 100 meters on an op sks, using a pso, with us rounds you picked up off a scav, right now that'd drop super far and be completely off your 100 meter zero, what hes proposing that instead that would be like, click #6 and once you see that puts the bullet on target, you can remember and use it later when using the same scope and rounds.
And you can find out the default ammo on escapefromtarkov.gamepedia.com/
kmieciu4ever you can but a lot of the time people don’t use the default ammo I think v is saying it would be nice to pick the ammo you prefer and set a scope to hit on target at 50 yards with that ammo. Look up a video on zeroing a scope he’s basically saying that. If you don’t want to I can try to explain but text isn’t a good medium. Basically you use the ammo you like and take a shot at 50 yards and make sure you are in the exact same spot and the gun is in the same position so your shot was low and to the left you turn the up/down knob on the scope down one click and turn the left/right knob left one click (you always “chase” the shot when zeroing) then take another shot and adjust again, you do this until at 50 yards you hit the center of the scope every time. This system is the most realistic and sounds pretty fun maybe set the scope on that gun as the default setting so you don’t have to adjust every time you buy a new scope and gun of the same type, this however would be a rare thing you do in the field it’s time consuming loud and knowing distance without outside facts like elevation and the like inter fearing with the consistency. Anyone saying this would be something you could do with a pick up gun in raid is not thinking realistically, it would bring a new aspect to custom guns and setups and another Interesting thing you could do in your hideout
@@TryHans999 5 lines arent a TLDR of a 53 minute video? Really?? Someone got served and is reaching. If you watched the whole video "mr. smartass", you wouldn't haven't gotten the point so completely backwards.
Well articulated point here, you got my vote. I always chuckle at the ranges when playing and often take 'zeroing' shots, especially when firing long distance! I hope the other streamers watch this so they understand exactly what you were saying.
I think a lot of us can relate to what happened to you in that call, you just had the added bonus of the peanut gallery effect!
Keep creating, keep being awesome!
Half way through this, it's so god damn informative and enjoyable to watch. Can't wait to watch the rest of it. Been loving the content! Keep it up!
Great video, really shed some light on zeroing in its state in Tarkov. I had messed around with some zeroing ranges when I was originally playing tarkov but realized it didn't seem to work how I expected and this really goes to show it is a confusing mechanic. I think this followup video really goes in depth and it is easy to understand your point.
I can tell you my highly ironsight accurate mosin versus my modern 6.5 creedmoor rifle shows how hard it is to sight iron sights and scopes.
I have 4 different grain sizes for the mosin and only 1 grain size for the 6.5 creedmoor but if I use the 203 grain mosin round at the sight I sighted in I can hit 1000m with ironsights.. your fix is clearly simple and smart, for a game it should just be -5 to +5 etc and you can determine the right click if needed in your hideout. I appreciate this video so much and it just shows that knowledge is the key factor,. Just like knowledge built this game already.
Replying to myself that being able to snipe in this game would be crazy nice and also if they could get ballistics to where a bullet does have the correct trajectory that would actually make this easier on them
If your suggesting a plus or minus 5 clicks in game I am strongly concerned whether you actually own the rifles you say you do...in real life most scopes equal 4 clicks for a 1moa change(1”) at 100yards. Meaning that if you dummed it down to even 1click equals 1” at 100 yards, that means 1 click equals 2” at 200 yards and 5” at 500 yards. In your case of 5 clicks, for it to make any meaningful change it would need to be something like 1 click is 4-6” that would be a nightmare at any kind of range, and become wildly inaccurate in game, and be a nightmare for any casual player. Most people playing these games have zero experience with actual guns, and those who do, likely have no experience besides zeroing their pistol/rifle and leaving it there.
@@seanmetzger4780 Given that you don't get sightlines in Tarkov beyond 400m for the most part, it would probably suffice, given that you have your hashes on your higher magnification optics to do the rest of the work. I mean, you're not wrong, but it would be pretty unwieldy having to take the time to click pg up/pg down 20 times. I think they could get away with 1 click = 1 moa and +5/-5 clicks.
My biggest concern with a +- 5 click system, is that it would be much the same as it is now, just without the faux distance nomenclature...and because of that, you would basically take up your entire zero range, just trying to get subsonic to shoot accurate at 50m in an ak74, like his example showed with us ammo in an Ak. I’d love more fine tuned adjustment, although I don’t know that it will really have many practical effect outside of extreme sniping, but I feel like unless they auto zero your gun to the ammo in the magazine at raid start, it will cause far too much negative consequences, just like the issue he pointed to in the video.
Here's a simple solution:
1. In your hideout add feature that will let you drag ammo to a sight. This will then pop up a menu that will have 3 zero options. 25 m / 50m / 100m. Your sight will now be zeroed for that ammo for that sight in hideout. This zero cannot be changed in raid. This is how you would do it in reality.
2. Change the bottom right number on the HUD to display +/-# Mil-Rad instead of fixed number
2a. NoFoodAfterMidnight will then proceed to create tables based on ammo and distance vs Mil-Rad. This is how you calculate distance when shooting in reality
3. Only sights that have adjustment features (Vudu, Nightforce, etc) have the ability to adjust Mil-Rads. You'd be insane to try to take your tool out to change zeroes for an EoTech Halographic Sight. This is how you would adjust for longer ranges in reality
In my estimation...
a. This adds clarification and accuracy as true as possible to reality.
b. Allows to game to keep a complex ballistics system
c. At the same time allows new players who are willing to learn a path to understanding
I like your method, however it would have to be clicks in moa, rather then Mill-rads, as millrads are far too fine an adjustment,plus for the average joe, explaining to them that x clicks equals 1” at 100meters 2” at 200meters, is far easier then explaining that 1 mill is 3.6” at 100meters, do the math as distance increases...frankly I think they should scrap the mill or moa click ideas, and simply either let you “zero” for the ammo intended to be used in raid in hideout in the way you suggested, or do it automatically by whatever’s in the magazine at raid start, and keep the 50-100-150 etc in raid for simplicity sake. I love realism, but the last thing I wanna do is be “clicking” to walk onto a target at range and then be stuck panic clicking back to my zero when I get third partied due to dumping a mag on a dude at range.
Why couldn't you change the zero in raid? You can adjust your zero anytime you need in real life. Even on iron sights. (This only applies to sights that are adjustable obviously)
You would be able to change the zero with optics that have dials but the indicator would be in mil-rads or moa instead of telling you number of meters. (For reasons stated in this video)
For non-in-game-zero-able optics, the size of the dot (1 moa dot, 4 moa dot, etc) can be used to estimate. This is inferior to a magnified optic but that's the trade off. Sights like the eotceh with 2 dots can become much more useful and the trade offs more realized if you were able to zero for a specific type of ammunition. A bit if clutter in the optics for the benefit of adding a reliable reference point for longer distance shot. Currently there is no trade off since the second dot can't be used reliably
@@jouslee having it in clicks doesn't make it any less "casualized" as keeping it at 50 or 100 etc and it just changing for whatever ammo you put in the gun. It's literally the same concept just a different measurement. They should just keep it like every other game or if they want to go all out then make every optic(that the option is available on) fully functional as it is in real life. Off raid you can zero it in your hideout and in raid you go into an animation where you guy is changing the turrets etc on the scope if you pick up a different ammo.
"picking up" ammo is too simplistic of a view, see the mixed mag reference. It wouldn't be an elegant solution to change it Everytime the ammo changes (our dear pmc doesn't even know exactly how many rounds are left in the mag let alone memorizes the order of types of ammo in a mag)
The solution I've outlined "closes the loop". The player understands which ammo he is zeroed for at the start of the raid. The player has a standard measure of units he can adjust his zeroing in raid. The player can adjust according to his knowledge of the map and ammo type or Excel spreadsheet. That simple
You're correct in saying that clicks is just a reference point (if I understood you correctly)
I've never been able to watch a youtube video on information to improve my skills in game and wanting to learn more guitar until I found Veritas videos. Made me want to play both again, thanks man
Great video. As a new comer to tarkov, I needed this.
God i remember that part of the stream. No ones responses to your question made sense to me
Just make it so that you can select what round the rifle should be zeroed for, before you enter a game, either in inventory or bunker range.
Then if you pick up different ammo during the game, the zero will be wrong.
Difficulty to implement depends on algorithm used to calculate the drop.
What they could do is set up the guns so that bullet drop is accurate for each type, so if there's no zero and they are benched without wind factor then you would get a somewhat linear drop when just shooting straight forward and seeing where the bullet impacts with range blocks. From that point on it should be easy for them to calculate multiple angles and where the bullet will drop in game, and therefore a regular zeroing system while in the hideout should work normally. I don't know if they plan to add environmental factors but the algorithm in general will be fairly linear.
We have a billion different button combos. I think one for "check chamber/magazine and zero" should be fine. Our trained PMC characters should know what would be appropriate.
Isn't veritas way of doing it simplier tho?
@@SukoSeiti I mean technically it's over-simplified, he's also talking per bullet type differences and typically a zero takes into account changing the windage (left/right adjustments). The problem is the game uses a specific zero distance which seems to default to 50, which would scale well with a proper 300m zero. Low velocity rounds will drop significantly when trying to engage out to 100m, adversely, will shoot higher so hitting a 100m target would be difficult regardless.
@@SukoSeiti No, it's not. You will have to learn how zero *each* scope for *each* round type. Imagine the difference between slugs and 5.56 for the same scope(like 2x).
Just wanted you to know that I found this video very informative and it explains a lot about my shots recently. I applaud you for taking the time to search for the answer and explaining in a way that a true marksman or a weapon beginner could understand. Thanks!
Literally love this game because of the community. It’s so cool to hear the breakdown of how the game works and how it could improve in such detail. Thanks for giving me something good to listen to this morning 👍🏼
Was surprised ed that Pestily having served in the military and knowing the facts of zeroing did not come to the rescue publicly. Yeah Bro great content, logic, clear mind. Love your broadcast, keep it up, Well done. At least Nikita finally understood after the podcast and prolly will incorporate your suggestion in the game.
for real half these people are retards, veritas has the patients of a god. I would have lost my shit over these people acting like they know what theyre talking about. they either dont listen or never touched a gun. i expected more from pestily especially. sad to see this shit, its like veritas is the only one with a brain.
So Nikita leveled with him?
Serving in the military doesnt = knowledge of firearms. Although I can see why people would assume that.
@@paratrooper8916 if you learn to shoot a rifle or use a scope you know how to zero. We are not talking of the salvation army😛
@@alp7178 If your not a infantryman or some other combat MOS you likely arent ever gonna have a scope. You might get some bootleg m68 red dot but most likely you are stuck with iron sights. At least that was the case with the units I was in. I didnt even get a ACOG or learn to zero until Afghanistan lol nd were talking Airborne units even. It pretty much was like the salvation or at least it was back when they were cutting the budget of the military and handing us vietnam loadouts xD
I remember seeing this live and I knew what you were talking about and I got kinda annoyed that no one else really understood, and it sorta shut you down because of it.
There's a few ways I can think of to solve this zeroing issue, but the best one I can think of is this;
We have a firing range in our hideout, and no sane person with firearms training would not make use of it.
Take your loadout into the hideout, and go to the range. Initially, your zero will either read as '??' or, if using Veritas' example, 'Click X', because of all the variables you have no data on.
Pretend you're examining a new item. It could be an arbitrary context menu option, or you could fire a few rounds, switch the zeroing and fire a few more, to replace those question marks or those vague clicks with the actual range numbers.
Or just forgo this exercise entirely and just have it auto-correct at the start of the raid, based on the ammo you're carrying. Got 80% BS and 20% Igolnik? It'll range for the BS. Ezpz. You're playing an experienced PMC and they would probably have made sure, after all. Hell it could even say something like 50m (BS) or something to remind you that's what the numbers are suited for.
Best solution I've seen so far, lore adequate, not too casual, not too hardcore
Hey Veritas thanks for this video. I had to take a break from your streams for a bit but that's neither here nor there at this time. I'm just thankful you made this because it really helps a lot of people understand what the hell is going on in game. I've got a clip where I aim at the head of a scav with a VSS and entirely miss 4 shots in a row. Dead on, aimed at him with a walther red dot sight.
I think this explains a lot.
The Walter is actually broken in a totally different way! Watch my latest Veritas Reacts video for more info!
@@VeritasGames I did watch that video and enjoy it. A quick clarification though, in my experience I was using the (small dot setting) on the MRS I was completely still with breath held. This was within 30m of the enemy. The VSS straight up just missed every time. I truly believe it had something to do with the strange zeroing settings of the game, or perhaps a VSS and mounted MRS sight (svd mount, MRS on top) don't play well together. For reference, this was using SPP ammo
In respect to what Nikita is saying at 39:00, I think he means that if you put an ACOG designed for milspec 5.56 on a milspec AR15 with appropriate barrel length, *after you've done an initial zero*, the range markings at 300, 400, 500 metres etc. will be pretty accurate. Not that you can just slap an ACOG on any AR15 and expect it to hit sub-MOA at the first range marking straight away.
Thanks for the detailed breakdown. I always attributed my "off" aiming moments to FOV issues, bugs, bad distance judgment on my part, and of course my potato moments. Never occurred to me that the zeroing numbers the game provides are only "correct" if I happen to be using one specific type of ammo. I've been playing since 2017 and had no idea zeroing worked like this in Tarkov. It's clear from the podcast that most of those guys are just as clueless. The /whoosh didn't even register, yet the default state was to jump to conclusions about easy modes and casualization. Admittedly, the topic was dense and definitely required more unpacking, but I really wish our monkey brains handled nuance better.
Do you know what ammo type each gun uses for zeroing? You mentioned SP5 for the VAL.
Link in the desc!
Ah I missed it, thanks!
I actually had no idea this was how zeroing in this game worked. Thank you!!!
You mean you had no idea that this is how zeroing dosn't work In this game? :D
Seriously eye opening. Everyone needs to see this
Thanks for the breakdown Veritas, I had an incling that this is how it worked in game, but it's great to have it explained in terms that everyone can understand. 10/10
IRL. If I aim 1" high of bulls eye at my zero (100yards), at 600 yards if the bullet were to travel in a straight line it would hit 6" above the bulls eye . So even though my bullet path needs to be 69" higher at 600 yards I still only need to adjust my scope 11.5" to actual hit my target. Great video. I really hope they implement it because it really is not that complicated if you make it like a real scope. Then you just create your own DOPE book (date of prior engagements) to really zero in at distances.
"data"....
I totally agree, the current system is bad. There is zeroing in meters, but it only depends on the standard ammunition, that's a bad thing.
In reality, the zeroing depends on the current assembly, the barrel, the muzzle and the ammunition. Unless you want to shoot at great distances, there are a lot more factors like angle, air pressure, temperature, wind etc.
In my view, there are three sensible solutions.
a) Meters continue to be displayed, but it relates to the currently loaded ammunition, barrel length and muzzle device.
b) They implement it realistically, as in ACE3 for ArmA, that the optics can be fine-tuned horizontally and vertically.
c) Both. You can set it up simply as in A, if you lack the knowledge, or you switch to B in the advanced mode and thus have an advantage.
I remember trying to shoot a G36. I was lucky enough to find one at a range that still had its 3x on it, and i tried it out. I now have an irrational fear of zeroing weapons.
I am always amazed by how well you explain the situation using various sources and visual representations to illustrate your analysis. As always: really great work there Mister!
I watched this podcast live and felt like you had a solid point and that you made it well. There are many viewers out there upset about the attitude of the other streamers, especially with the seemingly low knowledge of how all this stuff works. Check out the reddit threads on the dev stream. You will learn that there are many people that feel this way.
It's disappointing that they don't understand the mechanics, and can't think beyond their own experiences, yet have a direct line to BSG. That's what bothers me. Also, 11 streamers in the same call was just a big ole Charlie Foxtrot.
I paused the video at 16:50 and love everything i see so far. I kinda use the Zeroing in-game as an estimate vs where its actually going to hit... i cant wait to finish this video. Keep it up V
I finished the Video V and agree there should be a base zero of 0 say at 50 yards and be able to have ticks to go up or down based on the ammunition you use. Great work keep it up
you made a hour long video about zeroing... props to you and my attention span lmao
Great video. I've done A LOT of live-fire zeroing (was a gunsmith for almost 2 years) and testing with various ammo and long-range shooting. This video has a lot of good info in it and YOUR EXPLANATIONS have very, very few misunderstandings. A+
This game is epic, and so is your explanations of the testing you and others have done.
It should work like this:
1. The optics adapt to the round you fire and you zero for distances 100, 200, 300m etc. just like vanilla Arma 3, Battlefield or PUBG.
OR
2. They add proper range cards for each round and you zero by MOA - Minute Of Angle (the clicks or whatever you want to call them) just as in Arma 3 ACE3 mod. Each round has it's own ballistics. But the problem is if they were about to add system like this they would probably add as many item range cards as there are types of round in-game instead of adding one adaptable card.
Anyway if we want some proper sniping in Tarkov we need a way to get a distance to the target (I'm talking about big maps for ex. Shoreline, Reserve), technically it's possible by simply knowing the target height: HEIGHT OF THE TARGET * 1000m / MILS (Mil dots in your scope's reticle that are covering the target from head to toe) = DISTANCE in meters, we can estimate range like that but unfortunatly this equation has flaws and one MAJOR flaw: when your target is far it can be for ex. 2.3456 of MILS that cover the target which is as we know hard if not impossible to estimate from a screen or even irl and 2nd thing we would need scopes with scaling reticles (the reticle changes in case of zooming in and out - but maybe such scopes are in-game and I just forgot about it so correct me if I'm wrong).
Also we would have to get rid of the "fog" which is basically a view distance limitation.
I am not familiar with the range card that you are speaking of, but in military usage a range card is used to determine a sector of fire with a generalized idea of what you are looking at and able to engage.
When at the range, a single paper target is used and scaled to simulate 300m and you adjust sights to get a generally good grouping near the center of said target(both up and down, left and right). This is the general concept of zeroing that doesn't need a bore zero(although a bore zero helps even for regular rifles/carbines). When LMG's are zero'd it's to the bore, which allows almost anyone to aim and shoot it.
Arma2 had this working with pso, g36 integral scope, and others. it's not that hard to get it to work, plus this game probably only has a handful of 1000m+ shots unlike Arma
Warrior the word you looking for with scaling scope is called First focal plane scopes. The reticle gets larger as you zoom in so you can make accurate range and windage adjustments.
I dont comment much on youtube but summit actually brought up your idea about the clicks. Keep up the solid content man !
Thanks for making this video! This was beyond eye opening for me. Realizing I need to do some offline play to test my rounds out. I recently switched my “default budget setup” and I felt like I was missing a lot of shots I didn’t used to miss. This definitely helps me understand why! I didn’t even realize this mechanic in the game was so different from other games. Probably due to the fact I was using “default” rounds when I first started playing.
Really good explanation on how zeroing works. This makes a lot of sense. Didn't really watch the live podcast but I can say that I definitely felt your frustration there.
I think you already hit on the magic answer. Instead of using 50-250 zeroing just have a range of "arbitrary" numbers LIKE IN REAL LIFE on the scope as in -10 to +10 (20 in toatal).
You would need to take your gun/ammo/scope into the hideout and ZERO it at 50 meters inside the hideout.
Most scopes in real life do not use yards or meters on the turrets...... They use MILLS or MOA which is another topic for another day and I hope never gets added to the game LOL.
As always thanks for being self critiquing and honest @Veritas great vid
this is honestly how i play anyway. i put everything with a crosshair sight at 100m and use the same type of ammo all the time and use the mildots. but i always have 50 for basic red dots on the M4s or Aks for close to medium range.
That's frustrating man. I feel you though. I believe that peoples hate and general opposition to your point is simply due to ignorance. A hybrid system that did not denote actual distance as you suggest would be best I think. Hopefully they will implement something like this at some point in the future.
one of the very first things i noticed when i started playing as former military is the bullets not going where they should on the vertical axis. i immediately (after i missed my first headshot on a still player and went into offline mode to do some testing) asked my more experienced friend if there is a way to zero the rifle exactly as you describe. incremental clicks up and down to adjust your sights. thats how it works in real life and given the big talk about realism i assumed thats how it would work in this game, especially since its super easy to hop into the range(or offline mode) with a given optic and round pop a couple rounds off make your sight adjustments and boom good to go perfect zero for your fav ammo. anyone who's ever handled a weapon knows this is how it works.
Thing is i do believe most sights, including adjustable ion sights, come with engravings showing distances like 50-100-etc...
But.
I do believe your idea has a big value in the hideout, where you could actually test your gun and go there and set '' ok this will be how my 50m is zeroed now '' by maybe moving knobs or screws slightly with a tool
Veritas, I really enjoyed this video. Thank you for taking time out of your day and life to make it.
There is major bugs with some snipers/dmr's aswell, The SVD is having weird drop, even Pestily was having trouble with it with a easy shot.
He explained that it was his lack of experience in using the PSO on the SVD, not the SVD itself. The moment he put on the Valday scope he one tapped scav in the head from basically the same distance.
that was the optic. The PSO is a shit optic.
@@Marin3r101 it's an optic that was specifically created for SVD, how can it be shitty while used on SVD? IRL it's not even remotely good optic glass-coating-wise, it has strong yellow tint to it, it might get foggy under certain circumstances, but the whole reticle is designed around 7.62x54R round and SVD barrel. The problem lies within the broken zeroing AND broken ballistics in the game itself.
Anyone else have a weird drop with the m700?
Pestily also has shit aim though
What Nikita was talking about, were the numerous ballistic drop reticles that exist these days are designed for the trajectory of certain calibers, they still have to be zeroed. In fact, you have to zero them differently depending on what grain of bullet and/or your muzzle velocity. Some of them can be used for multiple calibers if those two calibers have similar trajectories.
You are completely correct Veritas, we should be able to manually adjust all of our optics.
Great video Veritas, I'm happy you made this video to break down the issue. Thank you.
What a great video. I knew there was something fishy with the scopes but never knew what it was.
Completly agree with the proposed changes.
Having watched this video in its entirety I can understand how they were confused given the circumstances. HOWEVER, having watched this video in its entirety I can also understand your point precisely and without any confusion or misunderstanding. These gentleman are fantastic content creators and all intelligent in their own rights. I hope that they see this video because it will shed a new light on what you were trying to say. All great points that are ultimately designed to improve the game.... not simplify it or make it unrealistic.... sometimes brilliant ideas are often misunderstood until they are UNDERSTOOD. Good video Veritas... got a sub from me.
I just always use 50 since I knew zeroing wasn't true, this video only helped me understand why it wasn't correct, I now understand why I seem to be a god with some ammos and an absolute bot with others, I know I'm late but this video has still been a great help in me understanding everything thank you
Great video bud. I actually was blown away at shots missed and had no idea why. I think Sacriel got the gist during the "chat" but nothing to the detail that this video provided. Great job.
I love how you tackle problems and can if given the time articulate a advanced problem to multitudes of levels. Btw does barrel length matter when it comes to bullet velocity, when trying to think of any type of advantage to running a t-5000 vs a rsass I couldn't think of anything besides maybe it having a longer barrel being more precise and having faster bullet times but feel like this isn't in the game. It's possible it's in the game but instead of adding to anything it's hardcoded inside the accuracy values of different guns. But if they added this feature or if it's currently in the game it just added a new layer of confusion to zeroing
Yes, it would, because barrel length and muzzle devices almost always change velocity. It's usually under a total of 20%, but even 10% is a LOT at 700m/s.
Or, at least it says that it changes velocity. Whether it does or not, I'm unsure.
i thought about that aswell, because also every gun has a default velocity value, even without a barrel attached, right? so what does that tell us? does it influence overall velocity (is m80 faster from a long sa-58 conpared to a short hunter)? or does it maybe even tell us the velocity that zeroing is accurate? I mean if I have an AK-74N with 700m/s "gun" velocity and then use 5.45mm ammo with 700m/s bullet velocity, then does zeroing perfectly match up?
Amazing video, very elaborate and clear explanation! I tried it out in game and the difference between ammo is huge. I tried the 5.45 BS vs US. Sat at aprox 100m and fired away. The BS landed spot on where I was aiming at with 100 zeroing. The US with the same settings landed about 1.5m below target.... So yeah, can confirm that you should be able to setup your own zeroing if you so choose.
BTW. US on 150m hit about 3m under target, on 250m I would estimate about 9m low xD While BS was still hitting pretty much dead on.
Such a good video. Just started playing tarkov and the zeroing has got me so confused so far, with the knowledge of balistics from the military I have. This video makes all the issues so clear.
Such a thoughtful and well crafted proposal.
Holy moly, i feel you. Hope we'll get this zeroing thing done fast. Ge8 vid btw.
Fantastic video! Just started playing tarkov a few days ago and I think it’s amazing that there is content on important information like this, I loved the video! :D I know this video is a few months old now, but I was wondering if this issue is still in the game?
IT is, 6 Months later. :D
definitely cleared up some of the stuff i suspected, good work
New player here. Great video and thank you for taking the time make this and to clarify your point which makes total sense. Ppl need to know this. I hope this gets implemented somehow and get rid of distance settings for scopes. Especially if they don’t apply. I think the ticks is more realistic. I was not aware of any of this and it explains some questions I had based on my experiences. Major props!
i'd just like to point out that until i watched this video, i had no idea what that little number in the bottom right corner actually meant and I'm level 27 in game. Thanks for taking the time to break down and explain things better than the dev's actual do.
Wow that must’ve been frustrating to be in the call with everyone misunderstanding you trying to get your one and only point across, glad Nikita and I assume everyone else was able to see what you were trying to point out!
Sadly Pestily served as an infantry soldier... He should have understood Veritas
I agree with you and I think you genuinely have a really good idea here
I like the click idea. You're essentially sighting your weapon in realistically. It's a great idea. Especially if you keep a record bc then you can alter it for each round based off your base zero.
I love how you explained this man, I would love to have this game be so true to life that you have to zero your own sights or maybe even have a system that you can preset a scopes zeroing as you put it on so you can have a zero for every round preset every time you need to build a gun, or if you wanna be an OG you can zero it yourself every time
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10/10 comedy gold, this man needs the Mark Twain Comedy Award
i really appreciate how much time you spend on this stuff. its actually amazing. thanks
watched about half of the video, I do not have enough time to watch the whole thing but I agree with you 100% so far, this would be an awesome change!!!
I saw the podcast and was upset that when people don't understand that your point was to come with something that will make the game feel so much real (which i think is their objective), but people simply hate what they can't understand and than wounder why they miss their shots. Just do your thing bro, glad you came up with that, really helped me with long range shots! Cheers!
P.S still dnt get why people suggest cosmetics on a 1st person shooter for your PMC, when the only thing you see is the gun
This is my first TH-cam comment. You are completely right!
It would be awesome to be able to zero a scope/red dot in your hideout (10-300 yards). You have to use the ammo in your stash to do so. While zeroing, you get a bullet drop graph with the current round you have chambered and barrel being used (So you can determine what yard to zero and what would work best for you in the map you plan to play). Maybe the displayed yardage zero you already see, It should show + or - MOA (minute of angle) for any other ammo differently chambered from what you zeroed. Or a setting you can adjust in settings, that allows for yards or MOA adjustments. If yards are selected it'll say the measurement of difference in bullet drop when a different round is chambered. That number could dynamically change when you change your yardage zero.
Only just saw this video, and it explains a lot. I have been playing since 2016 and was confused as to why the bullet trajectory was messed up (yes, as a shooter I took the number to be the zero'ed range and would adjust it to align with my estimated ranged to target). Thank you Veritas, this is a sensational video that explains a mechanic that has bugged the hell out of me for years. I fully support the idea of a player being able to use their shooting range to set up a rifle and bullet that is zero'ed to their liking for a more consistent result in the field.