That must be one of the most beautiful piece by Vivaldi I've ever heard. I'm flabbergasted by how wonderful it sounds. J'ai généralement apprécié les oeuvres vocales de Vivaldi, mais celle-ci est réellement incroyable. Elle ne sonne pas du tout comme beaucoup d'autre que j'ai pu entendre, et elle est absoluement -en manque d'autre termes pour exprimer ça - épique !
I was surprised at the very end, the inclusion of the text "Amen in saecula saeculorum" which is not part of the Credo in any of its liturgical versions. It's an invention by Vivaldi! pretty interesting.
@Del Vivaldi I'm always enormously grateful for all your uploads but I think that this issue of the "transposed" female choir parts should now be put finally to rest. In the last two decades (at least) ample and convincing documentary evidence has accumulated that the Pietà, by virtue of being the largest of the Venetian Ospedali, could almost always cast a handful of skilled women who could successfully sustain the parts of tenor and bass in the choir, thus allowing a conventional SATB scoring. Precisely over the almost four decades of Vivaldi's attachment to the Pietà a variable number of singers "officially" listed as full-time "tenor" and "bass" are documented plus others that could join forces on special occasions as required. Most oth this women spent all their lives at the Pietà, continuing to sing even in their seventies or eighties. The other smaller Ospedali in most cases could not not reach that number of female tenors and basses and had to resort to a SSAA writing as a second-choice necessity (the Ospedaletto, for instance). We should never forget that the number of young girls and women that the Maestre at the Pietà could "screen" every year in search of good voices and musical talents was absolutely huge, far larger than any modern choral institution - not least because culturally today it's not popular at all for women to sing in a low voice and from a very young age it's much more likely that a girl with a high-pitched voice will be encouraged to cultivate her voice for singing. This was certainly not the case in the 17th- or 18th-century Venice. It's also rather reasonable to assume that by scoring his choral works for the Pietà in the SATB layout that was customary of the Institution, Vivaldi could also see the immediate advantage of not having to figure out new technical solutions for his musical writing (the choral SATB mirrors closely the 4-part orchestral writing) and also of making much easier a possible re-use of the music material for other circumstances outside the Pietà and viceversa (and this is the case, for instance, of his adaptations of works such as the Magnificat and the Beatus Vir over more than two decades). More important than any documentary evidence of female singers that sang the tenor and bass parts in pitch is the musical evidence that the totally arbitrary transpositions of the choral parts results in the clumsiest imaginable conducts of the melodic lines. Nowhere in his enormous corpus of works one can find such a large number of cadenzas with the "exposed" third (in the top line), which, as everyone who's studied traditional composition knows, is a device to be used very sparingly, as in this recording of the Credo. Vivaldi's tenor parts are clearly written as inner parts, and if sometimes (only sometimes) they seem to work transposed by an octave is only because Vivaldi was very good at writing inner parts. I think it'd be very helpful to put one next to the other two recordings of the same choral work (any of those written for the Pietà), one with the "transposed" parts and one sung by an all-female choir singing the tenor and bass parts in pitch. I have heard some and found the results stunning, utterly convincing. The texture becomes immediately lightweight though chromatically rich and dense, just like in a painting by Tiepolo. I don't think anyone would have any doubt. Once again, thank you for all your precious work for all Vivaldi lovers!
Very expressive. I think Handel could done something different but Vivaldi is cantabile in all ways in all senses. The strings are are of exceptional support to the full harmony. Beautiful keep publishing.
@@chipensemble Truly a classic phrase of his, I bet he connected it closely with sacral music, especially since the one concerto which has it happens to be a "madrigal concerto".
Crucifixus, conmovedor 3er movimiento 3:39 donde la linea del bajo continuo, asemeja los pasos de Cristo llevando la Cruz, o sea se trata de una musica descriptiva, como cuando compuso las 4 estaciones.
Horrible ideological adaptation of Vivaldi's 4 part Credo. Although it is true that Vivaldi had an all-female choir, he never made any arrangement to his parts that are in any way reflective of this need, which means that he either could rely on external voices or that he had female basses (less likely). Michael Talbot made clear that the idea that the parts should be transposed to arrange an all-female choir is wrong (The Sacred Music of Antonio Vivaldi, pp. 108-110). And yet, these days, if you want to meet with the likes of feminists you have to change history. FACTS not Opinions, Please!!!!
I agree. There is no supporting evidence for this and the result is often less than satisfactory, although some like Hervé Niquet have been posing like great avant-gardistes, basically saying that these are the true harmonies that Vivaldi intended (although Matthias Maute had been doing it years before him). These conductors have all been men so I don’t think feminism has anything to do with it, except as a marketing strategy perhaps. What is even more regrettable is that these are usually fine performances in other respects, also sonically better engineered than their predecessors. In the meantime we are left without a standard version of this work recorded in this century, if we except a poorly engineered Sony offering (a repeat offender among record labels). To be fair, this conductor had the good sense to leave the tenor part untransposed in the middle movements (it would not have worked anyway). If I’m not mistaken, Talbot concedes that transposition of the basses could have been practiced as it does not damage the harmony.
@@DelVivaldi Thanks. You're right, Talbot does concede that, but it is something that it goes without saying, also because the lowest part could be replaced by instruments.
Se a transposição foi um feito ideológico ligado ao feminismo não sei; se foi vivas. Transposições e arranjos são bem vindos, e sempre existiram na história da música. Aliás nem todas as casas tinham grandes orquestras e se quisessem executar uma obra apelavam para reduções. Telemann refazia uma obra em formas diferentes para diversas entregas (o dinheiro adquirido o mantinha e ajudava em seu Collegium Musicum.
@@marcosPRATA918 My only "regret" has to do with the preoccupation to present an authoritative version along with the score; and transposition efforts, although interesting, always come with controversy. But I did not choose this version with regret. I think it is one of the most beautiful ever recorded.
![5 Pieces by Hans Zimmer \\ Iconic Soundtracks \\ Relaxing Piano [20min]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Os47nMrjw_Y/mqdefault.jpg)
That must be one of the most beautiful piece by Vivaldi I've ever heard. I'm flabbergasted by how wonderful it sounds.
J'ai généralement apprécié les oeuvres vocales de Vivaldi, mais celle-ci est réellement incroyable. Elle ne sonne pas du tout comme beaucoup d'autre que j'ai pu entendre, et elle est absoluement -en manque d'autre termes pour exprimer ça - épique !
08:34 This Amen is sublime
I was surprised at the very end, the inclusion of the text "Amen in saecula saeculorum" which is not part of the Credo in any of its liturgical versions. It's an invention by Vivaldi! pretty interesting.
His handwriting is so beautiful
I have noticed the same thing.
For me it is a miracle I can read some Vivaldi's lines !
I've listened to probably 90% of other composers' Credo. I still think Vivaldi's is the most beautiful.
Be kind and listen more, dear
@@stellario82can you recommend me one?
@@midas2673surely! Robert King or Vittorio Negri.
@@stellario82 Oh thank you so much dear, but i thought you would recommend me a Credo of other composers
@@midas2673OK then, Muffat Missa "in Labore requies" or Heinechen Missa in D dur
Never heard this one before - he manages to be so efficient, yet still graceful.
Amazing piece...top...
@Del Vivaldi I'm always enormously grateful for all your uploads but I think that this issue of the "transposed" female choir parts should now be put finally to rest. In the last two decades (at least) ample and convincing documentary evidence has accumulated that the Pietà, by virtue of being the largest of the Venetian Ospedali, could almost always cast a handful of skilled women who could successfully sustain the parts of tenor and bass in the choir, thus allowing a conventional SATB scoring. Precisely over the almost four decades of Vivaldi's attachment to the Pietà a variable number of singers "officially" listed as full-time "tenor" and "bass" are documented plus others that could join forces on special occasions as required. Most oth this women spent all their lives at the Pietà, continuing to sing even in their seventies or eighties. The other smaller Ospedali in most cases could not not reach that number of female tenors and basses and had to resort to a SSAA writing as a second-choice necessity (the Ospedaletto, for instance).
We should never forget that the number of young girls and women that the Maestre at the Pietà could "screen" every year in search of good voices and musical talents was absolutely huge, far larger than any modern choral institution - not least because culturally today it's not popular at all for women to sing in a low voice and from a very young age it's much more likely that a girl with a high-pitched voice will be encouraged to cultivate her voice for singing. This was certainly not the case in the 17th- or 18th-century Venice.
It's also rather reasonable to assume that by scoring his choral works for the Pietà in the SATB layout that was customary of the Institution, Vivaldi could also see the immediate advantage of not having to figure out new technical solutions for his musical writing (the choral SATB mirrors closely the 4-part orchestral writing) and also of making much easier a possible re-use of the music material for other circumstances outside the Pietà and viceversa (and this is the case, for instance, of his adaptations of works such as the Magnificat and the Beatus Vir over more than two decades).
More important than any documentary evidence of female singers that sang the tenor and bass parts in pitch is the musical evidence that the totally arbitrary transpositions of the choral parts results in the clumsiest imaginable conducts of the melodic lines. Nowhere in his enormous corpus of works one can find such a large number of cadenzas with the "exposed" third (in the top line), which, as everyone who's studied traditional composition knows, is a device to be used very sparingly, as in this recording of the Credo. Vivaldi's tenor parts are clearly written as inner parts, and if sometimes (only sometimes) they seem to work transposed by an octave is only because Vivaldi was very good at writing inner parts.
I think it'd be very helpful to put one next to the other two recordings of the same choral work (any of those written for the Pietà), one with the "transposed" parts and one sung by an all-female choir singing the tenor and bass parts in pitch. I have heard some and found the results stunning, utterly convincing. The texture becomes immediately lightweight though chromatically rich and dense, just like in a painting by Tiepolo. I don't think anyone would have any doubt.
Once again, thank you for all your precious work for all Vivaldi lovers!
What version of the Credo would you recommend?
Very expressive. I think Handel could done something different but Vivaldi is cantabile in all ways in all senses. The strings are are of exceptional support to the full harmony. Beautiful keep publishing.
That 7:11 goes so hard, it gives me goosebumps
SUPERB!
Thsnks!!!
Should be better and more widely known and appreciated. marvelous music...
A textura homofônica para clareza do texto contrasta com a escrita ligeira das partes instrumentais.
Perfeito!!!!
"Incarnatus est" at 02:50 has the same music of the initial bars of "Kyrie in G Minor".
Vivaldi uses that particular sequence of harmonies in different works, such as the first movement in Magnificat and concerto madrigalesco too
@@chipensemble Truly a classic phrase of his, I bet he connected it closely with sacral music, especially since the one concerto which has it happens to be a "madrigal concerto".
Crucifixus, conmovedor 3er movimiento 3:39 donde la linea del bajo continuo, asemeja los pasos de Cristo llevando la Cruz, o sea se trata de una musica descriptiva, como cuando compuso las 4 estaciones.
0:43 shades of Puccini;)
Horrible ideological adaptation of Vivaldi's 4 part Credo.
Although it is true that Vivaldi had an all-female choir, he never made any arrangement to his parts that are in any way reflective of this need, which means that he either could rely on external voices or that he had female basses (less likely). Michael Talbot made clear that the idea that the parts should be transposed to arrange an all-female choir is wrong (The Sacred Music of Antonio Vivaldi, pp. 108-110). And yet, these days, if you want to meet with the likes of feminists you have to change history. FACTS not Opinions, Please!!!!
I agree. There is no supporting evidence for this and the result is often less than satisfactory, although some like Hervé Niquet have been posing like great avant-gardistes, basically saying that these are the true harmonies that Vivaldi intended (although Matthias Maute had been doing it years before him). These conductors have all been men so I don’t think feminism has anything to do with it, except as a marketing strategy perhaps.
What is even more regrettable is that these are usually fine performances in other respects, also sonically better engineered than their predecessors. In the meantime we are left without a standard version of this work recorded in this century, if we except a poorly engineered Sony offering (a repeat offender among record labels).
To be fair, this conductor had the good sense to leave the tenor part untransposed in the middle movements (it would not have worked anyway). If I’m not mistaken, Talbot concedes that transposition of the basses could have been practiced as it does not damage the harmony.
@@DelVivaldi Thanks. You're right, Talbot does concede that, but it is something that it goes without saying, also because the lowest part could be replaced by instruments.
Se a transposição foi um feito ideológico ligado ao feminismo não sei; se foi vivas. Transposições e arranjos são bem vindos, e sempre existiram na história da música. Aliás nem todas as casas tinham grandes orquestras e se quisessem executar uma obra apelavam para reduções. Telemann refazia uma obra em formas diferentes para diversas entregas (o dinheiro adquirido o mantinha e ajudava em seu Collegium Musicum.
stellario82 you should read the booklet of this recording before speaking of feminism
@@marcosPRATA918 My only "regret" has to do with the preoccupation to present an authoritative version along with the score; and transposition efforts, although interesting, always come with controversy. But I did not choose this version with regret. I think it is one of the most beautiful ever recorded.