700w RMS Compact MONSTER!! XTZ 10.17 EDGE Subwoofer Review!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2024
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XTZ 10.17 EDGE Subwoofer: lestudioduson....
Test Equipment:
Preamp & Power Amplifiers:
Kinki Studio EX-P7: www.kinki-stud...
Kinki Studio EX-B7 mono blocks: www.kinki-stud...
Hegel H190: www.hegel.com/...
CHoco Sound EMEI: www.kinki-stud...
Emotiva TA2: emotiva.com/pr...
Source: Bluesound Node 2i
www.cambridgea...
(all music is hi-res streamed from Tidal)
DAC: Denafrips Ares II or Ares 12th-1
www.vinshineau...
Speaker & Power Cables: Maze Audio Ref4
www.mazeaudio.c...
(rest in peace Kent)
Interconnect Cables:
Analysis Plus Oval One RCA
Oyaide Tunami Terzo XX V2 XLR
analysis.plus/...
Your results may vary based on your ears, room, and associated equipment.
I own the xtz 12.17 edge. Here in denmark i got a few years back for 550 usd new.
Does everything I need. I keep it sealed , had friend come over that missed a bit of mid bass, pulled out a plug, boom he was happy. It is insanely versatile. Should have gone for the 10.17 as my room is small. Gain is at 50% all the time 😅
Nice! Keep in mind the gain on the subwoofer is not an indicator of how much of the subwoofer you're using, it's there to level match things :). Either way you gotta an amazing deal on the 12 which should be more effortless and have a larger sense of scale than the 10", big win for you! :)
@@NemoPropaganda THX. I use a Lyngdorf TDAI 1120 sstreamer with room correction and bass management. It makes sures levels are where they need to be :)
As always nice video Nemo! The xtz seems to be really good for the price. This thing costs about 490€(on sale right now) in the Eu.
that might be the best subwoofer deal in the EU right now then!!
Thanks Nemo for covering an XTZ sub🇸🇪I was a very happy owner of a smaller XTZ sub back home in Sweden and gave it to a friend when I moved to US and he still enjoying it. XTZ is truly an underrated brand here in US. Glad that they now start expanding to North America 👍
Great review Nemo. Really nice current price pricing on this tweakable sub .
I like the look and size. I couldn't find the stats on their page for stats, etc.
yeah, I listed most of them in the video, hope that helps.
Dude! I totally have plants around my JL e series to cover the power outlet. Nailed it.
Great idea!
Good stuff!!
Love your vids man !
Any thoughts on the JLD110 vs the XTZ 10.17 edge ? Your the only one I know that’s tried both , there compact width is why I’m between them , and performance. I’m torn , I feel like the XTZ will have more output because the port , and maybe better extension between 20-39 hz as well ?? Or can the JL out do the XTZ ? I figure the JL will be faster etc
Super torn !
So the D110 and 10.17 Edge are both compact solutions for their respective designs. Obviously the D110 is substantially smaller. Smaller subs are less efficient, sealed subs are also less efficient while larger subs and vented subs are more efficient. Both subs have roughly the same power so that would lead me to belive the larger & more efficient 10.17 Edge will win in terms of overall output. If output is your primary concern the 10.17 EDGE is the easy choice. If a more compact size is while still having crazy output (for the size) is the primary focus then the D110 is the easy choice. The D110 does have a tighter sound with better transients and better note to note distinction but that's no surprise, it's a sealed sub and while JL makes SPL subs with extremely heavy handed bass the fidelity is still excellent. In this situation I would only recommend the 10.17 EDGE over the D110 if output is a conern since all other areas the D110 is better unless you don't like heavy handed bass.
Hell yea man , I knew you would be the right one to ask this question
I can get both for a similar price , I feel like the SQ of both would be good and figured the JL would win slightly there
Thing is since I can only fit a compact sub , and my room is quite large I do need something with maximum thump as possible
Did u notice if one of
The 2 subs had better extension in the 20-30 hz area ? I know the XTZ maybe more noticeable output overall , but wondering if one has more noticeable deep end
Thanks for the Input !!!!
@@soopadoopa808 in a smaller room at reasonable volumes they're about the same but based on cone movement alone its easy to see the little D110 will tap out much quicker at those frequencies in a larger room. Even in my smaller room the driver of the D110 was close to maximum excursion while the larger 10.17 Edge was hardly breaking a sweat. Based on everything you're saying I think the wise choice here is to go for the 10.17 EDGE.
Dude thankyou so much
I think it’s the best sub for my application
Gonna start with one and end up with a 2nd to pair
Much appreciated!!
@@soopadoopa808 no problem man, I'm always happy to help. The goal of my channel is to help people stop obsessing and make a decision :). Feel free to post pics in the free discord if you're in there.
Ok, straight up...we all know you use the Buchardt S400 MK2 as your daily driver. I intend to pick up a pair of these same speakers for myself. What is your recommendation for a subwoofer that best complements these speakers for a medium sized room (14'X20') without going nuts on the price?
I appreciate that you follow my content enough to know that about me :). Sooo first lets remember a subwoofer with the S400 MK2 is optional so I suggest you run them as is first and see if you even need a sub. The room, positioning, and personal taste will be a big factor here. Assuming you do need/want a sub I'll say this, there is more than 1 winning combination but the Rythmik FVX12 or E15hp2 would be my go-to recommendation. I don't know what your budget is or if you have size constraints but that's my advice without knowing those 2 requirements.
do they also have sealed subs that compete with rel 1205 or sb 1000 pro ?
I only see vented subs on their website.
Thank you for really informative videos!This or Emotiva XS12 for same price? I'm in Europe so selection is pretty narrow. Both are about 550€ and SB1000 is 600€. I'm already streching my budget from 450€. I mostly listen music.
between those 3 around the same price the 10.17 EDGE is the easy choice in my opinion.
What would you recommend in europe for 500€?
@@C1rca1992 I don't know whats available in EU for 500. The 10.17 is $900 in USA so we have different prices.
@@NemoPropaganda Wow 900. It is 560€ = 595USD with shipping in europe. It is sale price currently. I'm really considering that option but it is still over my budget. Is that port tuning option valuable feature?
I'm also thinking about Emotiva subs. XS8 is 340USD atm. XS10 is usually about 430USD when available. Maybe I will wait for some discounts to pull the trigger. I will never buy cheap subwoofer again they are bad even compared to tower speakers. Enough of that. Would be an 8 inch sub good for music?
I can get like Polk HTS 10 and Emotiva XS8 for same money. Are they comparable?
@@C1rca1992 if you want to have a conversation you can hop in my free discord, YT comments are for questions relating to this product.
Where would you throw the rel ht 10 or 12 in the mix with this sub?
REL HT 1003 V2 is sealed with more of an emphasis on fidelity. Being sealed and much smaller they cannot fill as large of a space or have the low end output of the 10.17 but will instead have better tranisents & fidelity overall and very respectable output for the smaller size.
@@NemoPropaganda is the rel ht 10 a good compromise between a music and ht sub?
@@BrokeGuyBBQ yes, I think so but its still very small so if you want a lot of output the XTZ may be better. It all depends what your needs and listening habits are. Theater can get pretty loud but then there are people like me who watch movies at only 75dB lol.
Hi Nemo, thanks a lot for your review.
I'm busy choosing a sub to replace my old Audience CGA20 (which constantly shuts down during the projection of a movie), which is low powered and small 8" membrane, but did the job until now in my small dedicated room.
I went in a shop to hear SVS subs SB1000 Pro and PB1000 Pro, and I could easily hear the difference of a bigger and vented box. But amazingly, both of them sounded worse than my old one (when it works 🙃).
I really like XTZ engineering but, I'm really asking myself if a 10.17 would satisfy me or if I need to go to the 12.17 to get something similar in size compared to my CGA20, even if in the numbers, the 10.17 kills ly old sub (but SVS units also did but didn't show it during the listening session...).
Do you or anyone in your community have any opinion ?
Thanks in advance.
Stephane (Belgium)
you might not like my answer but I think you got used to unbalanced and non-linear bass. That CGA20 can't do anything below 40hz, in a sense it's more of a midbass module than a subwoofer and if I had to guess it's most prominent frequencies are probably 50-60hz (that was common for the time) which is boomy, boxy, loud bass you hear with your ears instead of realy bass rumbles in the room. Subs like the SVS ones you mentioned are much more linear and clean sounding so what you are hearing is a more linear sound that doesn't have a boosted midbass region and that's going to take some getitng used to. I get similar comments all the times from guys that are replacing a 20+ year old small sub. The XTZ 10.17 EDGE is more than plenty and you'd probably need 4 of the CGA20 subs to even come close to what a single 10.17 EDGE can do. Conversly it also has a tuning option for more midbass prominence which you may prefer so I think that's a good choice for you. Hope that helps.
The kind of sub reviews has returned! Glad your shot another one
ahahaha, I know right? I was looking at my history and felt I didn't cover enough subwoofers this year :(.
Hi Nemo: Thanks for posting this video. Last November I was going back and forth between buying the SVS SB-1000 and the SVS 3000 Micro. On the day that I had decided to buy the SVS 3000 Micro, your video dropped, and I based on your review, I changed my mind and I purchased an XTZ 10.17, and took advantage of their Black Friday sale (saving me $300!).
Unfortunately, when my speaker arrived from Sweden, the corners were cracked and chipped. The box contained a customs inspection letter; and it appeared to me, the speaker was dropped during the inspection process.
I emailed XTZ support, and they took care of me right away. It was pretty obvious that the damage was not a quality issue, but through no fault of XTZ, the damage occurred during shipping/inspection. Despite this, XTZ support resolved the problem right away.
I am happy to report that I have finally integrated this subwoofer into my system, and your review was spot on. I can really hear the difference between the two foam plugs, and with the help of the well written XTZ manual, I was able to dial in the sound that I was looking quickly.
Big thumbs up to XTZ for sound, value, and support.
One Happy XTZ Owner
great choice, sounds like you went through a little journey to get to your destination but I'm guessing it was all worth it. I ended up buying the review sample for a buddy who needed a compact sub with big output and he's super happy with it too! It's a little hidden gem in my opinion since many vented subs are large and don't all that great outside of LFE. Anyway, glad I could help, enjoy your sub brother!
Amazing review as always 👏👏
thank you brother.
Crossover points: I agree with you in principle regarding crossover points being on the low end. After several weeks of tweaking my set up, I ended up with two crossover regimes:
80HzLP @6db for the subs and 90HzHP @12db for the mains or
70HzLP @12db for the subs and 100HzHp @12db for the mains
The problem is my room is 13x13ft and, along with speaker placement, it has a tendency to suck the energy out the the 90- 150Hz frequency range. I cannot pull the speakers out into the room far enough to avoid the dip caused by the boundary interference. I have a pair of KEF R11s and a pair of Rythmik E15SE. By playing around at that crossover point I was able to diminish the dip to a bearable level. 5db dip vs 18db. The good thing about the Rythmiks is their promised performance at that level and I appreciate the option.
The XTZ 3X12 used to be my dream sub when I was younger. That sub is a monster.
I saw that and was tempted to ask for a review sample but man it's way too big for my room lol
I have owned that sub. Big and heavy was it then
Sounds like a fantastic sub Nemo!!! Great review as usual!!! Also is a very nice looking sub!!
absolutely, this is one of the most reasonably priced compact & big output subs I've come across.
It’s really impressive that your videos are one take jakes.
Fun fact that's thanks to Zero Fidelity, I used to use note cards and I talked to Sean early on and he made fun of me for it (in a friendly way) and I said to him "what am I supposed to do then?" and he said "I dunno, just try talking without the note cards" and ever since that point forward all videos have been free style.
Great to see you are not done with subs (as you hinted at last time you hurt your back lifting one)
Sounds like this sub is great, maybe you can review the 12" variant?
The amp from xtz, is really great btw. I have two of them😊
I'm happy to report my back problems have been solved! I still prefer to stay away from 100lb+ subs because returning them is very difficult (I don't have a truck).
@@NemoPropaganda
That is great😊
Hope they stay away, permanently😊
nice to see a sub worth buying in canada, might order one myself
Hmm,, feels like home,, 👍😎👍
Cheers and have the best of weekends Nemo,, ☕😋🍰
I thought of you when I made this video because you were the first person that left a comment about XTZ subwoofers like 2+ years ago I think. Hope all is well with you!
@@NemoPropaganda 💖
Wow these are $599.00 plus $90 shipping on the xtz website. Very tempting at that price.
Yes! There are some holiday specials going on right now :). I just didn't mention it in the video because then people in the future will get upset that's it on sale anymore.
Thank you Nemo!
Nemo please compare to one your favorite brands! RYTHMIK! The LV12M seems to be a pretty good competitor to it. 🙏
Sadly the LV12M continues to be out of stock :( For that reason I've been leaving it out on comparisons.
@@NemoPropaganda ahh got it. Well I guess I would still appreciate your thoughts to know whether it's worth it to wait on one.
@@michaelgochez7768 if you don't care about paint vs vinl finishes the LV12M will have better bass fidelity and transient response for sure.
@@NemoPropaganda Awesome! I will be considering one of the two but now I'm definitely waiting to demo the LV12M first. Thanks for taking the time to respond Nemo. Great review, stay blessed!
Where did you buy your beard?
the beard store of course.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
I think it is 899CAD ~660USD.
you're looking at the holiday promotion :)
@@NemoPropaganda I've only just discovered this channel. And you got a sense of humour.
Liked and subscribed 👊
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@DNSWRLD welcome to the show, you gotta laugh a little in life :)
I have two of these and I've been loving them for years. That said, I'm curious about how these compare to B&W DB2D, B&W DB3D and KEF KF92. Those are comparable in size but also have quite a bit more cone area, so I'm wondering whether they would be a notable upgrade for movie watching or not.
I can't speak to B&W, they're extremely overpriced in the USA but the KF92 is a low frequency monster and extremely compact. If you need the most extension in the smallest cabinet that's what the KF92 does. The slightly larger 10.17 will have more output so it would come down to your room size and how much output you want.
@@NemoPropaganda Thank youm Yes, they're very pricey. Very few reviews on those as well, but I'm super curious about the DB2D given its form factor, dual 10 inch drivers and 1000 W Hypex amp.
My room is quite large, and I play at -25 dB at most.
Oh I forgot, there's the Sigberg Audio 10D as well, which was recommended by Audioholics in the small yet powerful category.
@@isak6626 the DB2D is not 1000w RMS, it's 1000w max power, the XTZ 10.17 EDGE reviewed here for example has 1045w max power. Max power ratings are mostly marketing.
@@NemoPropaganda Ok. Well, Hypex does produce some of the most powerful amps though, so it should pack some serious punch, don't you think?
@@isak6626 I think if it packed such a punch B&W would have no problem publishing the RMS figures like every other brand. The only reason to publish max output is if the RMS is dog shit. Max power can be as much as 3x the RMS so that db2d could have as little as 350w RMS. Conversly it could be 750w RMS, I don't know. I just know it's extremely expensive and they're tricking their customers with max power specs.
I have owned 2 of their subs 12.17 and Spirit12 subs. I have also owned svs pb1k before that. Xtz doesn't go as low as svs but midbass was much cleaner and impactful on the Xtz. Also whatever the company claims don't plug any of the ports. I got much tighter sound without ports and measured better than closing one port in Reference mode..
different tuning options help the sub be more flexible in different rooms so a different room could need different setup, like if someone has a big dropout below 30hz the low extension mode might help.
Oh I get it. People expect it to be on sale all the time especially if they watch this video six months after you post it lol.
At $599.00 I don’t think you can really do any better.
exactly, I rarely will mention sales or promotions, people get really mad when its over. It's an odd level of entitlement but it is what it is.
Hello! Is this subwoofer better than the SPEEDWOOFER 10S MKII?
yes.
So,iam very interested to buy this one or the bigger version of 12.. who do you think is gonna win between these two on pure midbass??
if midbass performance is your biggest concern generally vented subs are not midbass champions. The XTZ 10.17 EDGE was a little cleaner souning for sure but if really articulate midbass is your primary concern I suggest you look at something like a REL HT 1205 MK2 instead. As far as the 12.17 I cannot comment on it directly as I have not heard it.
Please review Ascendo SV-12 as well
ascendo is not popular in the US, i don't even know how to get a hold of them :(
Nice looking sub but their website doesn’t look very good.
nothing wrong with that, Fritz website is terrible and his speaker is amazing! :)
Thx Nemo, you’re a killer with your analysis on audio 👌🏻
If I consider a Rel T/7X, is this XTZ a serious contender or is it not even close?
I have the Buchardt S400 mk2 and would like to get some more mid bass. So I can enjoy more the 70’s rock scene
it depends what you consider a serious contender. In terms of output or extension the 10.17 is superior but in terms of bass fidelity overall the T7X is the champion. If you want something more in the middle of the T7X and 10.17 EDGE consider the REL HT 1003 MK2.
Thx alot for your answer! I’m coming from a hifi standpoint of view, so SPL or extension is not so much my need.
If I set the crossover point at 50Hz for example, will it improve the other bass lines above this point also?
Thank you for taking the time to answer, I really appreciate it!@@NemoPropaganda
@@esthervermeersch8125 I'm not sure which sub you're referring to but generally with all subs if you set the xover to 50hz you'll still get some sound up in the higher frequencies, just a lot less, the amount of this is defined by the xover slope. A 12dB slope at the xover point will have a very gradual dropoff as it blends up to your speakers and a 24dB slope is more aggressive. Of course the xover design itself is also a big factor. Some brands xover network are absolute trash, you set it to 50hz and you're really at 75hz, etc.... But that's not a problem with either of the subs you're referring to.
What sub were you using as the platform to display the XTZ?
Rythmik FVX12.
@@NemoPropaganda very large 😁
Almost thought it was the Speedwoofer 12s 😂
@@kman9387 no way, Speedwoofer 12S is way bigger!!! The FVX12 is identical in size to the PB2000 Pro, I consider it an average size vented 12. The RSL is so big I couldn't fit the whole thing in the frame when I did its review lol. The XTZ is just small :)
@@NemoPropaganda 😁👍
@@NemoPropagandaHi Nemo, great review as always. I see you are still holding on to the Rythmik fvx12. I bought one for myself after watching your review of it over a year ago. I just love it. Thank You. How do you think it compares to the XTZ? Just curious to know your thoughts 😊
Hi Nemo I hope you can give me some input on my problem. I bought the DBR62's but they sound too thick at higher volumes. I have them 12 inches from the front wall to the back of the speaker. When I pulled out the speaker about 30inches they sound great. By the way the side walls are over 6 feet away. But I just can't have them out that far the most I can give them between the front wall and the back of the speaker is 12 inches so I think I'm going to return them. Do you think if I got a speaker that has a 5-1/4 woofer instead of a 6.5" woofer would most likely fix my problem ?
that speaker has decent midbass but isn't a bass monster by any means, it sounds like your room has some serious bass reinforcement which is cool but it sounds like it's causing problems or perhaps you're sitting too far back. Are you sitting all the way back against the wall? If you can't move your seat up and you can move your speakers forward then for sure you'll want to find something that generally has a thinner sound or try plugging the ports on what you currently have to see if that helps.
I'm sitting about 6 or 7 ft back in the middle of the room. Well Erin who measured the speaker in his measurements said the Elacs have a boosted bass. I was thinking that could be a possibly factor to my problem. Would a speaker with a 5-1/4 woofer lesson the room gain vs a 6.5 woofer in most cases?
@@horrorfan6710 Yeah if you look at his graph (the DBR) boost is around 60-120hz bass which is midbass and it's not that boosted, the speaker is not a bass monster, either way based on everything you've said the the Polk R100 comes to mind, it's light on bass, sounds good against a wall due to its unique port design that is literally designed for people in your situation and it has a similar sound to the DBR but does it better in my opinion. If the Polk R100 doesn't work in your room then room treatment or DSP of somekind would be the next logical step instead of throwing more money at speakers. Conversly you can dabble with DSP now and keep the speakers youhave. A miniDSP is cheaper than buying new speakers afterall :)
@@NemoPropaganda Yeah I forgot about the R100, but what about the Klipsch R50M might that speaker be good for my situation also? If it is which would you choose between R100 and the R50M? I just rewatched your review of the Klipsch R50M but there isn't a mention of the R100. I listen to a lot of metal and other 80's stuff that's probably not the best recordings, I'm kind of sensitive to too much treble. I had a chance once to listen to the Bronze 100 and it was too thin and cool in my opinion. I watch a lot of movies and play video games and the R50M is probably better handling those tasks right? Thanks for helping you probably saved me a lot of time and money, I'll leave you alone now ;)
@@horrorfan6710no no no, The R100 is way better at all that and the R50M is more like the Bronze actually.
This may have solved my subwoofer dilemma since Emotiva doesn't make the RS11 any longer and I passed on that private sale one. I think I'll wait until January, according to their podcast Wed before Thanksgiving, Emotiva is releasing a new line
This thing would get murdered by the RSL 12s though, lol
THX standards is where I would think the 80Hz number came from. Most people think bass becomes nondirectional at around 80Hz. I cross over at 60Hz myself and my tower speakers can reproduce bass into the high 30s.
Don't forget about the xtz 12.17 edge.
I just pre ordered the guy on black friday for only 515 Euros including shipping.
Svs PB 1000 pro is 850 euros over here in Europe
Crazy value from XTZ
I didn't forget, I wanted to review the smaller one. A lot of subscribers are looking for more wife friendly solutions :). But yes the holiday sale is very good!! Congrats on the purchase brother.
@@NemoPropaganda Thank you man, I'm so psyched, just you mentioning how the 10.17 sounds better than the sb 1000 Pro got me hyped after trying out the SVS here.
Just wanna say, your reviews are killer and even when I have my 12.17 I would still watch your review on it if you would ever do one.
Curious to hear your opinion of the 12.17 edge vs the RSL 12
@@suckabustaakadd You can't really compare like that, the RSL 12S is more for someone who wants an 18" sub but doesn't have the budget for it :)
@@NemoPropaganda It would be interesting to make a comparison between the 10.17 edge and 12.17 edge in the future. I went with the bigger one (2x 12.17 edge) ,considering it will play louder using slightly bigger enclosure and driver. Do you think the 10.17 edge will sound tighter though ?
@@Nickceid hard to say without hearing it, the RSL 12S is substantially larger than the RSL 10S but the large 12s actually has the better sound quality overall.