I think it doesn't really matter what bike you ride. It's important why you ride. My wife and I rode from Europe to Australia on budget hybrid bikes, which cost 350 euros each .. And we were happy!
Same here. As a poor student, I rode a shitty aluminum road bike across Canada a few years back. Just strapped some bags to the side, normal pedals, chucks on my feet, tend tied to the back. I took the same bike from tip to tail of Europe, and I met all sorts of people with multi-thousand dollar rides, and I didn’t have any trouble keeping up, and I had just as good a time.
For my supple life, the primary "just" is "just" get on a bike. I'm 60-something and after a health wake-up call, I "just" happened up on some of your videos (by providence or "just" chance - we can argue that too...), then started riding again after locating my college-era Peugeot road bike that likely didn't cost $100 then and sure not worth that today but I put that back in it to get it going. Mostly riding local streets & multi-use paths, I soon became frustrated with pinched tires and all the little things that kept going wrong - but, the old Peugeot showed me "just" one thing - I want to ride! As I started looking and listening I was amazed at the choices, the brands, the models; the categories & subcategories of bikes - its like a bike candy store out there. Finally (for now), I "just" set a budget then narrowed it down to "just" 6 bikes. I am riding a Kona Rove ST because I have a local servicing dealer which I deem important. And, I "just" love it! That being said, I am very confident that I would "just" love any of those 6 or the other dozens of bikes that were "just" dangling in front of me as choices. I like my bike and I feel good. Thanks for a really great channel!!!
A gravel bike is pretty much just a penny-farthing But with similar sized wheels, elongated frame, a geared transmission that has been transferred to the back wheel and a bit more stable geometry and bars.
I rode and raced hard for 30 years, always trying to be aggressive....but the last 5 years have been the best because I just cruise around and tour new places. WAY better.
I think a major distinction is frame flexibility. While carrying a significant load, particularly in the rear, a flexible frame will tend to feel like it is moving around a lot. Climbing out of the saddle exacerbates this distinction. My recollection of the Surly LHT is that it felt pretty dead when riding unladen. When laden, the LHT seemed to inspire confidence while descending. Much of this stiffness distinction is due to tubing wall thickness explaining the heavier weight associated with a touring frame.
That was something I noticed immediately with my Trek 520. Riding with panniers just felt "normal". I still like my 520 unladen but I haven't had too much other experience to compare it to.
Bingo! That’s the one big thing about touring bikes vs other styles of all surface bikes that he missed. Touring bikes are meant to take big heavy loads.
I always liked the idea of an all-purpose bike. In my case it’s a Surly Ogre that, like other touring bikes, is not intended to develop high speeds or to be super light weight. What I really enjoy about the Ogre is that I can assemble almost any gear I want. It's well suited as a touring, a commuting or an off-road bike.
I like your old school thinking. The young folks are buying into the idea that you need a different bike for every road surface from single track to pavement.
Good video. I would add however that the touring bike is built to carry weight. As such it could be heavier (stronger) steel, would often have stronger wheels with more spokes, and generally also have a more "robust" groupset - up to barends etc. All this explains the weight difference. Now the frame itself if usually of very similar geometry, and you can most of the time convert a bike from touring to gravel and vice versa
When we were kids we took our trashed out 10 speeds AKA road bikes ( back then they called them " English racers") and put wider tires on them because we couldn't find the correct tires for them to buy, there was no internet, it wasn't invented yet lol ! We did what worked, all road bikes and i mean ALL bikes had steel frames, we trail rode those bikes, rode wheelies and even took them off homemade ramps (jumps) maybe those were the first gravel bikes and we didn't know it , if that's the case i want back pay lol, great video, thank you......Scott, 59 years old and still riding every day 👍🏆.
Well to me a touring bike, and this is super important, must be easier to fix on the side of a road ! If you want to go disk brake for example i would choose cable over hydro. I even choose to go V-brake for my touring bike as i don't plan to ride on mud. I also go for a more up position/geometry, i have to sit on my touring bike for 8 hours each day, for weeks with 30 kg of stuff, the goal is to never have too much effort. A gravel is sold to be able to do everything but imo it's not good for big tour, for a ride of some days sure, on a week end, for a mini tour even a bit on the "sport" side it's great, but if you go for month on your bike with a tone of stuff (i like having my coffee maker on the morning for example) well i prefer doing 20 km less each days and have everything with me, and no pain in the butt :3 Ofc that mean you have a more stable comfortable bike, so for the "fun" ride of one afternoon, where you take some gravel road etc... It's less efficient. It's ok to have more than one bike. I have 3 and i could see myself with more. :3
XXOOXOOXX...Yes! When I got my Surly Disc Trucker in 2012, the feel of this bike's ride was instantly like reuniting with an old friend. It has inspired me to cross-country bike touring, building bikes, and has so changed my life forever.
Truth. I went on a tour around Israel with a bunch of friends about 10 years ago now. One of the guys bought along a new bike with 27.5 wheels, and this was well before they were common. Sods law, the spokes on this thing seemed to be made of string cheese, turning the trip into a tour of Israeli bike shops. Not one had a replacement wheelset, although we did manage to get new spokes on most places. So yeah - reliability and availability of parts in the arse-end of nowhere should feature highly on any touring bike set-up. I chose disc for that reason - my frame will take 700C, 29", 27.5, or even 26" rims (with a slight risk of pedal strike on the latter. I've never had an issue with hydraulics in 10 years of using it, but yes - on a tour in a 3rd world country I'd probably reconsider and go with mechanical discs. I run a Rohloff - not easily serviceable in far flung places, but so reliable that I don't think I'd need to worry. Having said that, the most far flung I get these days is Watford. Long overdue a proper cycle tour.
Another difference is gearing. Touring bikes tend to come with very wide ranging triple cranksets and wide range cassettes that are durable, but low in cost (9 speed). Gravel bikes tend to have more expensive gearing (11 speed) that is either much lower in spread (1x) or with 2x road compact which has slightly more spread than 1x but nowhere near a decent touring bike. Currently gravel bike gearing rarely drops below a 1:1 ratio whereas a touring bike will drop down to below 0.7 using things like 22T chainring and 36T cassette. Touring bikes tend to have a top gear that is a bit higher than a 1x and a bit lower than a 2x road compact. This may start to merge if Shimano finally start to release sub compact cranks (46/30 etc.) with formal support for 11-40 cassettes though.
There are many options for lower gearing on a gravel bike. I use Shimano Di2 with Absolute Black 46/30 and an 11/36 cassette as we have steep gravel here so spinning is important. I agree with the shimano comment,but, if using D12 you can use other companies' components
Touring bikes are designed for stability when carrying heavy loads. Gravel bikes aren't really designed for that but can do lightweight touring if fitted with the appropriate eyes for mounting rear racks. Most gravel bikes have carbon forks which are not suitable for mounting front racks. Horses for courses really.
Watching this a little late but wanted to comment. I was looking for a compromise between touring and Gravel and think I found it in the Salsa Vaya. The bike is steel with a carbon fork, mechanical disc brakes, GRX components, and lots of attachment points for touring packs. The chain stay measurement is 450. I find the bike a smooth rider, comfortable, solid but I can feel the weight compared to my road bikes. Comes in at around 28 lbs. with pedals so once you load up with racks and packs it won’t be much different than a dedicated tourer. But I love going out on the bike just for leisurely 30 miler mixed road and trail. Good all around bike. I call it the Beast.
Just finished overhauling a 1984 Raleigh Portage, 100% original w/650bx38 wheels/ tires and 40mm cs...can't wait to see what it feels like on roads/paths (after the ice melts that is)
I decided against 'cobbling' something together; after endless hours of joyful research (it truly was fun) I decided on my version of a light touring/gravel bike... the Vaya. Love it.
Good choice. Did the same, but I caught a stainless travel version while they made them and have put thousands of miles on it. Just added a rohloff a year ago and took it to South Australia, great bike and it does amazing over so many terrain types yet still fairly quick on pavement.
Touring bikes often have wider gearing which is super cool. On mine I can go anywhere from 18" which will get you up comical 20% plus slopes to 108.5" which is nice for downhills. Seeing a go anywhere gravel bike with road gearing is just sad.
Branko Dodig why sad? Seriously, not being snide. Shopping for my first gravel bike and I’m used to roadie gears. Haven’t been on a proper trail since the 90s.
I'm more curious about finally understanding the difference between what seems to be a new trend (gravel bikes) and what we grew up with in Europe ("Tout chemin", all trail, by opposition to "Tout terrain", mountain bike).
2 days ago I was undecided between the trek 520 and the trek 920 After going back to the stores talking to many other people even a store that only sold giant Most said the 520 was a better bike for the buck .plus it's a damn sexy bike
Bought a GT Peace Tour disc frame in Reynolds steel for $35 new. I originally planned on it being my commuter/grocery-getter but after a small chip on the seat stay of my Trek Boone, and doing a 350mi "mostly" gravel ride 3 weeks later, it was the only solution at the time. Swapped off the SRAM Apex 10sp for Force 10sp and the custom built Pacenti SL25s it became an absolute blast for the ride, and I actually fit better on the GT than I did on the Trek. The difference is that GT really didn't design the Peace Tour to be a full on touring bike, but more of a everyday bike that could do light touring. The geometry was tweaked actually quite a bit more towards gravel bikes of today...so you could say they were a bit of ahead of the times. The bike didn't sell well because the geometry was a bit too niche for how the bike was marketed. I love the bike, but I do want to keep it as my commuter, but what I plan to do is have a custom steel or titanium frame built with the same geometry because I know I ride that geometry for over a 100mi a day for multiple days at a very good pace without problems. I guess what I'm alluding to more so is when you find the geometry that ultimately works for you and you get everything dialed in...it won't matter. Riding comfortably means you can go harder and further. And trust me, I wanted to show up on my super trick 16.5lb Boone with IsoSpeed, but the 19.3lb steel GT was magical, and tough as nails!
@@PathLessPedaledTV Its discontinued now...something to note, the rear clearance is somewhere around 50c and the Surly fork at least the same, Also, the Specialized Tricross Expert...was an interesting bike for the times. The Tricross is actually one of my favorites w/ Columbus aluminum, carbon rear stays w/ Zertz, carbon fork with aluminum steer...but no disc brakes. The geometry and tire clearances would allow for fair weather 42's but really good w/ 38s or 40s. I see that as probably one of the first gravel bikes w/ a modern gravel geo....just wasn't perceived that way even by Spesh, and forgotten when they came out with the Crux, and turn the Tricross into a hybrid.....
Touring bike, gravel bike, road bike, mountain bike... all just names. A 1" difference in chainstay length is not going to make much of a difference in bike handling or weight... most of the benefit is perceptual/psychological, not real. The ability to support wider, lower pressure tires makes a bike suitable for loose surfaces. Most of this differentiation is strategy, a ploy by bicycle manufacturers to get people to own lots of bikes, or to buy a new bike and get rid of the old one as the cyclist chases the Holy Grail thinking that it can be purchased, not earned/developed. For most cyclists, the one who ride for fitness and pleasure, the light touring bikes of the '70s, the modern retros like the various Rivendell country bikes or their MIG'd equivalents from Soma, Surley, etc., are perfect. Well under 30 lbs with affordable components, rugged, durable, comfortable, and performant. Performance gains that matter can be found only by riding, not shopping... and reducing weight enough to matter happens in the kitchen, not the bike shop.
John Clifford Telling it like it is! I suppose the manufacturers are just responding to the fact that about a third of riders are obsessed with technical minutiae of their bike/bikes. They can barely go a weekend without swapping something out, grabbing a new accessory, or drooling over the next purchase, like a fickle lover. On the other hand there are world touring cyclists who have been out there 8 years and don’t even know the brand of their bike. Some might even have non-matching handlebar tape, haha.
Your comments suggest you haven't ridden many bikes, if you can't find any discernable difference in handling, between a touring bike and a mountain bike (for example).
I'm been doing all day rides and touring since the early 70's on all types of surfaces. I have one bike to do it all and run them until metal fatigue. I have toured on a racing bike with high pressure tires until a car ran a stop sign and throw me over the top of the car. I have a habit of going out year around and biked to work every day regardless of the weather for almost 40 years. This past year I have had to make a few changes in my bike to accommodate a body transformed by gravity. I weigh the same as I did in 1988 but the distribution has changed, as well as the lose of muscle mass, requiring, me to reconfigure the handlebars and put less weight on my handlebars and more on my butt. I'm now riding 700 x 28 tires that I can run at 80 psi on paved road and 40 psi to soften the ride on dirt or crushed rock. I still tour on drop bars due to the high winds out on the open treeless Plains. In Nebraska the wind is our mountains. A calm day is anything under 20 mph I have never seen the need for a bike for every surface. I talk to riders who have as many as five bikes for traveling on the same surfaces I use one on. On a tour I take what I need and not everything I own. My rule for packing is: Every item I carry must serve 2 or more functions. I don't believe in getting the newest great idea. Some of my touring Kit dates back to the 1960's. My newest tool is the Smart phone. I'm just amazed at how much Alexis knows. She has been so helpful to me on the road, providing weather reports, best routes, distances to my next stop. as well as on the road repair
It's interesting how much people want gravel bikes to "just" be mountain/cross/touring bikes with a list of tweaks.. I've always seen them as road bikes with wider tire clearance - that's it. Geometry, bars, often gearing, seems to trend much closer to road than mountain bikes. Although smashing a wide tire into a road frame isn't as negotiable as changing everything on a mountain bike frame to make it work. Maybe I'm crazy though. Keep up your awesome videos! Always love your stuff.
I built a hybrid cruser. Basicly a comfy mtb with road bike 700c wheels and semislick tires.. Excellent video bytheway. I learned something new. Gravel bike never seen one except for once i saw a mtb with ramhorn handle bars.
I have a Surly LHT and I have a Gravel Bike with steel frame. Both are fantastic bikes for bike touring, and bike exploration! Both are SUPPLE BIKES! Best Regards from Brasil!.
Frame material. Touring bikes are generally steel while gravel (race) bikes tend to be carbon. There is an overlap with aluminium in the low cost end though.
@ Lol. I have a face for radio. I give Russ a pass on load capacity and weighted handling. He did mention the relative weights of the bikes themselves which almost always correlates to load capacity and also the space to prevent heel strikes which is tied to the chainstays and therefore overall handling.
Great video, My old Claud Butler Dalesman touring bike can tackle most surfaces. Maybe not as fast as a gravel bike but that's ok as I like to enjoy the scenery at a sedate pace.
Hi! I have a Surly Disc Trucker and have a couple questions about the Oregon Outback Trail: * Would I need knobbly tires for the Oregon Outback (Spring-Fall)? * Were you able to ride most of it, or are there potions of the trail that were too technical / rugged that it was necessary to push or carry your bike? * Do you think it's reasonable to ride the Oregon Outback fully-loaded with panniers (like a long tour), or better to minimise with a bike-packing setup?? Thanks!
I'm a real newbie on bike terminology, it would be really nice if you could point out on the bike exactly what you are talking about. Most of what you are talking about is going over my head.
Not sure physics is on your side when you say that a bike with a shorter chainstay helps you to accelerate faster to close a gap. Weighing less would help that, but the length just makes it feel more sprightly.
GRAVEL GRAVEL GRAVEL!! My Raleigh Tamland 2 is chainstay 440. Steel, carbon fork, SRAM Rival 11-42T. Weight 24lbs. The only downfall is limited Braisons..
Just completed a 900 km tour on my Salsa Marrakesh (flat bar frame, parts to my own liking). Lovely steel frame. Now, however, looking to get a titanium or carbon gravel bike. Because there surely is a bike gap between my Salsa Marrakesh and my Scott CR1 road bike. The Marrakesh is a lovely bike, but sometimes you do not need a bike that can load even the kitchen sink. And sometimes you wish for a quicker bike that can pack just so much gear as to get you through a long weekend. And sometimes commuting on a racer is not fun (rain), and a bit too cumbersome (time) on a steel touring bike. I can surely see the "need" for a gravel bike... But maybe I am also just another nerd...
I'd love to see you review a retro race bike (technically a gravel bike since all roads were gravel then) and compare handling and geometry characteristics with modern "gravel" bikes. Something like 1920s or 1930's. If one could be made available to you.
It comes down to marketing more bikes to more people. Seems like you can sell more bikes by creating more specific bikes that are "optimized for only one application. In reality no one can afford enough bikes to keep up.
Well 2 things: 1) It is an industry and like other industries they have to sell things. 2) if you look closely there are actual material differences between a touring and a gravel bike. If it’s a big enough difference for you to buy one is up to you.
My question is about weight capacity, or more specifically about grocery hauling - Is a gravel bike with an aluminum frame and rear rack good enough to haul groceries, say in a hilly area? Will the frame be strong enough? Say at least 50 lbs at least of groceries.
I have a Marin Four Corners touring bike. I've ridden it on gravel, and I've toured on it, loaded to around 80 pounds. I've wondered why not gravel? And I've tried to discern just what it is that makes a gravel bike a gravel bike, vs. a touring bike. What I hear here is what I've almost concluded anyway. It's apparently very difficult to clearly and concisely explain the differences. Unless you're racing gravel, I personally have concluded there's not a dimes difference between a gravel and touring bike.
I don’t know how to make this any clearer. Yes you can ride a touring bike on gravel. No one said you couldn’t. BUT, a gravel bike as it has evolved DOES have distinct design choices. Notably shorter chain stay (no need to accommodate heel strike for panniers emphasis on quicker handling), generally much lighter (heavy tubing to prevent load flex not needed) and overall a quicker bike. Its like saying, you can drive a F150 on a racetrack so therefore there’s no difference between a truck and an F1 car.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Whoa! Touched a nerve? It wasn't you that wasn't clear, you were. Certainly the F-150 and F1 analogy is extreme & not accurate as a comparison in any way. That would be like taking a 29-er hardtail to an indoor track race. My point was, the distinctions aren't so different to be clearly identifiable. Nor so great as to really make a huge difference, certainly not by sight anyway. Not like the clearly identifiable distinctions between a mtn bike and gravel bike. Point is, yes, I ride my touring bike on gravel = I have a gravel bike.
Russ, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on gravel vs cyclocross bikes. Not necessarily asking since I think I know...cross is snappier geo and conventionally less utilitarian, e.g., fewer mounts. More interested in how you think about their differences. Based on your reviews, it seems you secretly like cross bikes...since you seem to favor quick handling. Thoughts?
Losses in efficiency are over stated for most. GCN even tested it and found flats were more efficient from an aerobic perspective, but then back pedaled and said they were probably ore efficient during sprints and hard efforts. 🤷🏽♂️For me we did many long rides and all the clip in shoes I tried started to hurt after hour 6th. So I traded efficiency for comfort.
Path Less Pedaled thank you, that’s very helpful as priority in my case is comfort but wasn’t too sure about efficiency part as we get bombarded by such statement as soon as you mention flat pedals. Thx again
Russ, been enjoying your channel over the last few months as I've been sorting out my choices for my next "gravel'ish/road'ish/trail'ish/commuting'ish" bike. Since you're showing the Warbird 105 build bike on the stand, does that mean there's a review in the near future? That'd be awesome, as I've narrowed my selection so far to include that, and the '19 All-City Cosmic Stallion. Keep on supplin'!
I've had a LHT for a couple of years now, and it is one of my favorites. I've had two dedicated gravel bikes. One was a Diamondback Haanjo (sold) and now I have a Breezer Radar. I'm doing the Dirty Kanza 50 miler, and part of me wants to do it on the LHT, although everyone tells me it's the wrong choice. I just love the way that bike rides in all conditions. My Breezer is no lightweight, so it's really down to comfort, and deciding between the disc brakes on the Breezer or the rim brakes on my LHT. Sometimes having a bunch of bikes to choose from is stressful! Anyway, love the video as always! Keep it up.
@@pingpongballz5998 I had the 2016 Haanjo Tero, which I upgraded to a 1x10 drivetrain before eventually selling it and moving on to my Long Haul Trucker.
I bought a radar pro before Performance bike went under and it is quite contrary to my CX bike. I like them both for very different reasons. I thought about the Disc Trucker but I couldn't get the right fit at that time. And the Radar pro was 34% discount. Steel is awesome!
Do you have a say on the entry-level Triban RC120 from Btwin? Considering the spec sheet, I found it pretty budget friendly. However, it comes with 700 by 28 tires as stock and I don't know if it can accommodate tires upwards 35. Indian roads are quite unpredictable 😇
Great video, thanks. Could you comment on how the geometry influences how the bikes ride under load. Or, What makes a touring bike handle better when loaded up with panniers etc.
I have a vintage touring bike I'm using as my "gravel bike". It's a bit lighter and springier than modern long haul touring rigs, and has chainstay lengths closer to the Salsa. Only downside is the tire clearance maxes out at about ~36c. This bike has also been used as a fully loaded tourer and raced as a CX bike.
I want to make my 2012 Cross Check (rim brakes) more gravel friendly but for rides, not races... maybe go a single front crank and 11 on the back... What’s the budget way of doing this? Any links welcomed :)
I wish I could, as you have, actually experience riding all these. How different are they, how different do they feel? A lot? Subtle? Night and day? Kinda sorta? I have noticed from my shopping the gearing tends to be a lot different, with touring bikes generally having lower gears, sometimes with triples and often (yech) bar end shifters.
The handling is pretty noticeably different especially climbing and putting a little heat on the pedals. Weight is a factor, but also the long wheelbase and rear end. Sort of like the difference between a Cadillac and a peppier car.
I'd like to get an older steel bike and use 45mm wide tires. To get this clearance, would an old mtb or touring bike be my most likely options? Thanks.
Thanks for the info, as I'm just starting out in learning about these sorts of bikes. One critique, even though I know this video is old, but it would be easier for someone like me (hearing this info for the first time) to follow if you just broke the video into segments as opposed to just doing a long monologue and jump cutting. As is, this felt like reading one suuuper long paragraph.
Please make paper note or mention that 2 equal riders just may be equal on these 2 bikes you compared.... possibly.... Great video... thank you for your help with this iv been wondering
Russ; America gave us the mountain bike and from that an explosion of ideas, trends and people who could look outside the box. Cycling would have died a death without the mountain bike. Gravel is the same , it as shown people that there is another type of cycling out there. I'm all for the type of cycling of today. Here in England we will always be behind we don't have people like you or Henry Wildberry or groups like the Tumbleweeds to show s the way !!.
I disagree. There is a distinct difference. That's like saying a mountain bike is just like a road bike. Or Mcdonalds is the same as vegan food. The differences aren't as obvious but they are there. I think the noobiest of noobs could tell a difference from LHT to Crosscheck if you rode them back to back.
Well. It accelerates faster so if there’s a train passing by you can get to speed and hop on. Put in another way. If it didn’t why do race bikes use shorter stays?
@@PathLessPedaledTV Because longer chain stays means more frame material, weight, and flex. Race bikes don't have any reason to not skim off every gram they possibly can. On the contrary, if a bike is designed to be able to carry panniers, then there ARE reasons to make chain stays longer: more foot clearance but also less risk of having your bike's front-end lift off whilst hitting a steep hill, which is even stronger if you ride with a load on the rear and not on the front. Another reason is that in a peloton, it is essential to have a very lively bike with which the rider can change direction in a split second. Survival is an art for these guys. A shorter bike (both in the rear and in the front) are much better for that. I doubt that on a time trial, a rider would be faster on a bike in all other ways identical to another one but differing by the length of its chain stays only (same weight, aero, wheels etc.)
The original reasons usually given when mountain bike design moved to shorter stays were better traction going up hills, and improved agility or maneuverability in trails.
@@PathLessPedaledTV For just testing that, I don't think it's worth your time, because it's going to be complex and cumbersome to isolate chain stay length as sole factor. Better to leave that kind of stuff to Jan Heine ;-) . But if you want to do it and do it well, I'm very curious about the findings. My guess: it is negligible and buried deep into many other factors.
I think it doesn't really matter what bike you ride. It's important why you ride. My wife and I rode from Europe to Australia on budget hybrid bikes, which cost 350 euros each .. And we were happy!
lol to Australia ? 😄
@@nicklion yeah check the channel they have the videos up
Same here. As a poor student, I rode a shitty aluminum road bike across Canada a few years back. Just strapped some bags to the side, normal pedals, chucks on my feet, tend tied to the back. I took the same bike from tip to tail of Europe, and I met all sorts of people with multi-thousand dollar rides, and I didn’t have any trouble keeping up, and I had just as good a time.
Me using steel touring miyata bike for 60 dollars in manila
£20 tange MTB frame from 93.
Upgraded the gears to 11-34 +22-42, added v brakes etc.
Much happier not spending a couple of grand on a new bike....
For my supple life, the primary "just" is "just" get on a bike.
I'm 60-something and after a health wake-up call, I "just" happened up on some of your videos (by providence or "just" chance - we can argue that too...), then started riding again after locating my college-era Peugeot road bike that likely didn't cost $100 then and sure not worth that today but I put that back in it to get it going. Mostly riding local streets & multi-use paths, I soon became frustrated with pinched tires and all the little things that kept going wrong - but, the old Peugeot showed me "just" one thing - I want to ride!
As I started looking and listening I was amazed at the choices, the brands, the models; the categories & subcategories of bikes - its like a bike candy store out there.
Finally (for now), I "just" set a budget then narrowed it down to "just" 6 bikes. I am riding a Kona Rove ST because I have a local servicing dealer which I deem important. And, I "just" love it! That being said, I am very confident that I would "just" love any of those 6 or the other dozens of bikes that were "just" dangling in front of me as choices.
I like my bike and I feel good.
Thanks for a really great channel!!!
Thanks!
David Roberts a
A gravel bike is pretty much just a penny-farthing But with similar sized wheels, elongated frame, a geared transmission that has been transferred to the back wheel and a bit more stable geometry and bars.
As soon as you said non-competitive cycling you got a subscribe from me.
Just the fun of riding and exploring !
I rode and raced hard for 30 years, always trying to be aggressive....but the last 5 years have been the best because I just cruise around and tour new places. WAY better.
I think a major distinction is frame flexibility. While carrying a significant load, particularly in the rear, a flexible frame will tend to feel like it is moving around a lot. Climbing out of the saddle exacerbates this distinction. My recollection of the Surly LHT is that it felt pretty dead when riding unladen. When laden, the LHT seemed to inspire confidence while descending.
Much of this stiffness distinction is due to tubing wall thickness explaining the heavier weight associated with a touring frame.
That was something I noticed immediately with my Trek 520. Riding with panniers just felt "normal". I still like my 520 unladen but I haven't had too much other experience to compare it to.
Bingo! That’s the one big thing about touring bikes vs other styles of all surface bikes that he missed. Touring bikes are meant to take big heavy loads.
Same with my touring bike, unloaded it's super stiff. I don’t actually mind.
I always liked the idea of an all-purpose bike. In my case it’s a Surly Ogre that, like other touring bikes, is not intended to develop high speeds or to be super light weight. What I really enjoy about the Ogre is that I can assemble almost any gear I want. It's well suited as a touring, a commuting or an off-road bike.
Also me using miyata steel touring bike for 60 dollars by a surlpus shop in manila
I like your old school thinking. The young folks are buying into the idea that you need a different bike for every road surface from single track to pavement.
Good video. I would add however that the touring bike is built to carry weight. As such it could be heavier (stronger) steel, would often have stronger wheels with more spokes, and generally also have a more "robust" groupset - up to barends etc. All this explains the weight difference. Now the frame itself if usually of very similar geometry, and you can most of the time convert a bike from touring to gravel and vice versa
When we were kids we took our trashed out 10 speeds AKA road bikes ( back then they called them " English racers") and put wider tires on them because we couldn't find the correct tires for them to buy, there was no internet, it wasn't invented yet lol ! We did what worked, all road bikes and i mean ALL bikes had steel frames, we trail rode those bikes, rode wheelies and even took them off homemade ramps (jumps) maybe those were the first gravel bikes and we didn't know it , if that's the case i want back pay lol, great video, thank you......Scott, 59 years old and still riding every day 👍🏆.
Well to me a touring bike, and this is super important, must be easier to fix on the side of a road !
If you want to go disk brake for example i would choose cable over hydro. I even choose to go V-brake for my touring bike as i don't plan to ride on mud. I also go for a more up position/geometry, i have to sit on my touring bike for 8 hours each day, for weeks with 30 kg of stuff, the goal is to never have too much effort. A gravel is sold to be able to do everything but imo it's not good for big tour, for a ride of some days sure, on a week end, for a mini tour even a bit on the "sport" side it's great, but if you go for month on your bike with a tone of stuff (i like having my coffee maker on the morning for example) well i prefer doing 20 km less each days and have everything with me, and no pain in the butt :3
Ofc that mean you have a more stable comfortable bike, so for the "fun" ride of one afternoon, where you take some gravel road etc... It's less efficient. It's ok to have more than one bike. I have 3 and i could see myself with more. :3
XXOOXOOXX...Yes! When I got my Surly Disc Trucker in 2012, the feel of this bike's ride was instantly like reuniting with an old friend. It has inspired me to cross-country bike touring, building bikes, and has so changed my life forever.
Great comment, thanks. Adresses different possibilities, very useful.
Truth. I went on a tour around Israel with a bunch of friends about 10 years ago now. One of the guys bought along a new bike with 27.5 wheels, and this was well before they were common. Sods law, the spokes on this thing seemed to be made of string cheese, turning the trip into a tour of Israeli bike shops. Not one had a replacement wheelset, although we did manage to get new spokes on most places. So yeah - reliability and availability of parts in the arse-end of nowhere should feature highly on any touring bike set-up. I chose disc for that reason - my frame will take 700C, 29", 27.5, or even 26" rims (with a slight risk of pedal strike on the latter. I've never had an issue with hydraulics in 10 years of using it, but yes - on a tour in a 3rd world country I'd probably reconsider and go with mechanical discs. I run a Rohloff - not easily serviceable in far flung places, but so reliable that I don't think I'd need to worry. Having said that, the most far flung I get these days is Watford. Long overdue a proper cycle tour.
Good advice. What bike do you recommend btw? I prefer the more upright position as well
gravel bikes are good looking bikes for now. actually i wanna have it some day. i think i’m watching the youtube too much.
Another difference is gearing. Touring bikes tend to come with very wide ranging triple cranksets and wide range cassettes that are durable, but low in cost (9 speed). Gravel bikes tend to have more expensive gearing (11 speed) that is either much lower in spread (1x) or with 2x road compact which has slightly more spread than 1x but nowhere near a decent touring bike. Currently gravel bike gearing rarely drops below a 1:1 ratio whereas a touring bike will drop down to below 0.7 using things like 22T chainring and 36T cassette. Touring bikes tend to have a top gear that is a bit higher than a 1x and a bit lower than a 2x road compact.
This may start to merge if Shimano finally start to release sub compact cranks (46/30 etc.) with formal support for 11-40 cassettes though.
This is a great point.
There are many options for lower gearing on a gravel bike. I use Shimano Di2 with Absolute Black 46/30 and an 11/36 cassette as we have steep gravel here so spinning is important. I agree with the shimano comment,but, if using D12 you can use other companies' components
@@monty2078 but you dont need Di2 for that setup.
Touring bikes are designed for stability when carrying heavy loads. Gravel bikes aren't really designed for that but can do lightweight touring if fitted with the appropriate eyes for mounting rear racks. Most gravel bikes have carbon forks which are not suitable for mounting front racks. Horses for courses really.
Watching this a little late but wanted to comment. I was looking for a compromise between touring and Gravel and think I found it in the Salsa Vaya. The bike is steel with a carbon fork, mechanical disc brakes, GRX components, and lots of attachment points for touring packs. The chain stay measurement is 450. I find the bike a smooth rider, comfortable, solid but I can feel the weight compared to my road bikes. Comes in at around 28 lbs. with pedals so once you load up with racks and packs it won’t be much different than a dedicated tourer. But I love going out on the bike just for leisurely 30 miler mixed road and trail. Good all around bike. I call it the Beast.
Just finished overhauling a 1984 Raleigh Portage, 100% original w/650bx38 wheels/ tires and 40mm cs...can't wait to see what it feels like on roads/paths (after the ice melts that is)
Jealous!!!
To sum it (the video) up: the only difference is longer chainstays in touring bikes! I hope you do a review of Trek 920. Keep up the good work!
I’ve got the Intec F10 Randonneur (steel) with a chainstay of 430 and absolutely love it as a road/gravel touring bike.
I decided against 'cobbling' something together; after endless hours of joyful research (it truly was fun) I decided on my version of a light touring/gravel bike... the Vaya. Love it.
Good choice. Did the same, but I caught a stainless travel version while they made them and have put thousands of miles on it. Just added a rohloff a year ago and took it to South Australia, great bike and it does amazing over so many terrain types yet still fairly quick on pavement.
Considering a Vaya...have you wound up on some more significant gravel or single track on it? Curious how it would do there.
Touring bikes often have wider gearing which is super cool. On mine I can go anywhere from 18" which will get you up comical 20% plus slopes to 108.5" which is nice for downhills.
Seeing a go anywhere gravel bike with road gearing is just sad.
Branko Dodig why sad? Seriously, not being snide. Shopping for my first gravel bike and I’m used to roadie gears. Haven’t been on a proper trail since the 90s.
I'm more curious about finally understanding the difference between what seems to be a new trend (gravel bikes) and what we grew up with in Europe ("Tout chemin", all trail, by opposition to "Tout terrain", mountain bike).
2 days ago I was undecided between the trek 520 and the
trek 920
After going back to the stores talking to many other people even a store that only sold giant
Most said the 520 was a better bike for the buck
.plus it's a damn sexy bike
I can't help but click when I see any video defining the gravel bike from others
I love that I found your channel!
Its the balance between, comfort, weight and cost.
Look at an exciting new category: randonneur bicycles. Designed to travel FAST with supple, wide tires and just a handlebar bag for stuff.
It's in fact a very old type of bike style that is making a comeback.
Bought a GT Peace Tour disc frame in Reynolds steel for $35 new. I originally planned on it being my commuter/grocery-getter but after a small chip on the seat stay of my Trek Boone, and doing a 350mi "mostly" gravel ride 3 weeks later, it was the only solution at the time. Swapped off the SRAM Apex 10sp for Force 10sp and the custom built Pacenti SL25s it became an absolute blast for the ride, and I actually fit better on the GT than I did on the Trek.
The difference is that GT really didn't design the Peace Tour to be a full on touring bike, but more of a everyday bike that could do light touring. The geometry was tweaked actually quite a bit more towards gravel bikes of today...so you could say they were a bit of ahead of the times. The bike didn't sell well because the geometry was a bit too niche for how the bike was marketed. I love the bike, but I do want to keep it as my commuter, but what I plan to do is have a custom steel or titanium frame built with the same geometry because I know I ride that geometry for over a 100mi a day for multiple days at a very good pace without problems.
I guess what I'm alluding to more so is when you find the geometry that ultimately works for you and you get everything dialed in...it won't matter. Riding comfortably means you can go harder and further. And trust me, I wanted to show up on my super trick 16.5lb Boone with IsoSpeed, but the 19.3lb steel GT was magical, and tough as nails!
Sounds like a sweet bike. Will have to look it up.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Its discontinued now...something to note, the rear clearance is somewhere around 50c and the Surly fork at least the same, Also, the Specialized Tricross Expert...was an interesting bike for the times. The Tricross is actually one of my favorites w/ Columbus aluminum, carbon rear stays w/ Zertz, carbon fork with aluminum steer...but no disc brakes. The geometry and tire clearances would allow for fair weather 42's but really good w/ 38s or 40s. I see that as probably one of the first gravel bikes w/ a modern gravel geo....just wasn't perceived that way even by Spesh, and forgotten when they came out with the Crux, and turn the Tricross into a hybrid.....
Touring bike, gravel bike, road bike, mountain bike... all just names. A 1" difference in chainstay length is not going to make much of a difference in bike handling or weight... most of the benefit is perceptual/psychological, not real. The ability to support wider, lower pressure tires makes a bike suitable for loose surfaces.
Most of this differentiation is strategy, a ploy by bicycle manufacturers to get people to own lots of bikes, or to buy a new bike and get rid of the old one as the cyclist chases the Holy Grail thinking that it can be purchased, not earned/developed. For most cyclists, the one who ride for fitness and pleasure, the light touring bikes of the '70s, the modern retros like the various Rivendell country bikes or their MIG'd equivalents from Soma, Surley, etc., are perfect. Well under 30 lbs with affordable components, rugged, durable, comfortable, and performant. Performance gains that matter can be found only by riding, not shopping... and reducing weight enough to matter happens in the kitchen, not the bike shop.
John Clifford Telling it like it is! I suppose the manufacturers are just responding to the fact that about a third of riders are obsessed with technical minutiae of their bike/bikes. They can barely go a weekend without swapping something out, grabbing a new accessory, or drooling over the next purchase, like a fickle lover. On the other hand there are world touring cyclists who have been out there 8 years and don’t even know the brand of their bike. Some might even have non-matching handlebar tape, haha.
Your comments suggest you haven't ridden many bikes, if you can't find any discernable difference in handling, between a touring bike and a mountain bike (for example).
I'm been doing all day rides and touring since the early 70's on all types of surfaces. I have one bike to do it all and run them until metal fatigue. I have toured on a racing bike with high pressure tires until a car ran a stop sign and throw me over the top of the car. I have a habit of going out year around and biked to work every day regardless of the weather for almost 40 years. This past year I have had to make a few changes in my bike to accommodate a body transformed by gravity. I weigh the same as I did in 1988 but the distribution has changed, as well as the lose of muscle mass, requiring, me to reconfigure the handlebars and put less weight on my handlebars and more on my butt. I'm now riding 700 x 28 tires that I can run at 80 psi on paved road and 40 psi to soften the ride on dirt or crushed rock. I still tour on drop bars due to the high winds out on the open treeless Plains. In Nebraska the wind is our mountains. A calm day is anything under 20 mph
I have never seen the need for a bike for every surface. I talk to riders who have as many as five bikes for traveling on the same surfaces I use one on. On a tour I take what I need and not everything I own. My rule for packing is: Every item I carry must serve 2 or more functions. I don't believe in getting the newest great idea. Some of my touring Kit dates back to the 1960's. My newest tool is the Smart phone. I'm just amazed at how much Alexis knows. She has been so helpful to me on the road, providing weather reports, best routes, distances to my next stop. as well as on the road repair
Drop bar mountain bikes of the late 80's and early 90's were the first gravel bikes. I'm thinking the early Salsa Ala Carte's.
Amazing how much a tire change will move a gravel closer to road or gravel closer to cross.
Buy a surly orge. You can do anything with it. All you have to do is switch wheel sets
It's interesting how much people want gravel bikes to "just" be mountain/cross/touring bikes with a list of tweaks.. I've always seen them as road bikes with wider tire clearance - that's it. Geometry, bars, often gearing, seems to trend much closer to road than mountain bikes.
Although smashing a wide tire into a road frame isn't as negotiable as changing everything on a mountain bike frame to make it work.
Maybe I'm crazy though.
Keep up your awesome videos! Always love your stuff.
I built a hybrid cruser. Basicly a comfy mtb with road bike 700c wheels and semislick tires.. Excellent video bytheway. I learned something new. Gravel bike never seen one except for once i saw a mtb with ramhorn handle bars.
I have a Surly LHT and I have a Gravel Bike with steel frame.
Both are fantastic bikes for bike touring, and bike exploration! Both are SUPPLE BIKES!
Best Regards from Brasil!.
Love my thorn sherpa slowest bike I’ve owned but still my favourite
Frame material. Touring bikes are generally steel while gravel (race) bikes tend to be carbon. There is an overlap with aluminium in the low cost end though.
Don't forget titanium which is possibly the best for gravel
@ Lol. I have a face for radio.
I give Russ a pass on load capacity and weighted handling. He did mention the relative weights of the bikes themselves which almost always correlates to load capacity and also the space to prevent heel strikes which is tied to the chainstays and therefore overall handling.
Great video, My old Claud Butler Dalesman touring bike can tackle most surfaces. Maybe not as fast as a gravel bike but that's ok as I like to enjoy the scenery at a sedate pace.
Rode the Oregon Outback on my LHT, yes its a tank but with Rat Trap Pass tires it was smooth sailing
Hi! I have a Surly Disc Trucker and have a couple questions about the Oregon Outback Trail:
* Would I need knobbly tires for the Oregon Outback (Spring-Fall)?
* Were you able to ride most of it, or are there potions of the trail that were too technical / rugged that it was necessary to push or carry your bike?
* Do you think it's reasonable to ride the Oregon Outback fully-loaded with panniers (like a long tour), or better to minimise with a bike-packing setup??
Thanks!
I'm a real newbie on bike terminology, it would be really nice if you could point out on the bike exactly what you are talking about. Most of what you are talking about is going over my head.
I'll see you out there
Trek 920 is my ultimate gravel adventure go anywhere etc etc bike
Any chance you'll roll a Surly Bridge Club? Dirt touring - exploring - goofing off
I have a mountain bike. Love it.
Are you sayin' I can't ride my 26er MTB?? LOL. Just kidding.
Great channel. Keep up the good work.
@ 2012 Diamondback Response XE from Dick's Sporting Goods. It's a great bike.
Not sure physics is on your side when you say that a bike with a shorter chainstay helps you to accelerate faster to close a gap. Weighing less would help that, but the length just makes it feel more sprightly.
I agree that it's more a sensation difference than any real difference in speed.
GRAVEL GRAVEL GRAVEL!! My Raleigh Tamland 2 is chainstay 440. Steel, carbon fork, SRAM Rival 11-42T. Weight 24lbs. The only downfall is limited Braisons..
Reliability Durability "Repairability" Comfort Stability... are more important for touring bikes.
Just completed a 900 km tour on my Salsa Marrakesh (flat bar frame, parts to my own liking). Lovely steel frame.
Now, however, looking to get a titanium or carbon gravel bike. Because there surely is a bike gap between my Salsa Marrakesh and my Scott CR1 road bike. The Marrakesh is a lovely bike, but sometimes you do not need a bike that can load even the kitchen sink. And sometimes you wish for a quicker bike that can pack just so much gear as to get you through a long weekend.
And sometimes commuting on a racer is not fun (rain), and a bit too cumbersome (time) on a steel touring bike.
I can surely see the "need" for a gravel bike... But maybe I am also just another nerd...
The Salsa comes in flat bar?
The gravel bike sounds a lot like my Sakai 4000 shorter chainstays relaxed front end and clearance for large tires and fenders
Also the price of your bike, tour vs gravel, dedicated tour bike is expensive , very expensive but worth the price made like a tank
I'd love to see you review a retro race bike (technically a gravel bike since all roads were gravel then) and compare handling and geometry characteristics with modern "gravel" bikes. Something like 1920s or 1930's. If one could be made available to you.
Yeah. If I could get some geo numbers that would be interesting to compare.
I'm against the rant around this fashion of gravel bikes and main stream thought.
I have a late 90's Peugeot Metro 700c. To my surprise it was abe to take a 29x2.10 tire.
Would be nice to mention weights in kg iso pounds which is only used in a few countries (like the US )
Thank goodness for google.
It comes down to marketing more bikes to more people. Seems like you can sell more bikes by creating more specific bikes that are "optimized for only one application. In reality no one can afford enough bikes to keep up.
Well 2 things: 1) It is an industry and like other industries they have to sell things. 2) if you look closely there are actual material differences between a touring and a gravel bike. If it’s a big enough difference for you to buy one is up to you.
My question is about weight capacity, or more specifically about grocery hauling - Is a gravel bike with an aluminum frame and rear rack good enough to haul groceries, say in a hilly area? Will the frame be strong enough? Say at least 50 lbs at least of groceries.
It could do it but it wouldn’t be fun. Might feel it all flex.
I have a Marin Four Corners touring bike. I've ridden it on gravel, and I've toured on it, loaded to around 80 pounds. I've wondered why not gravel? And I've tried to discern just what it is that makes a gravel bike a gravel bike, vs. a touring bike. What I hear here is what I've almost concluded anyway. It's apparently very difficult to clearly and concisely explain the differences. Unless you're racing gravel, I personally have concluded there's not a dimes difference between a gravel and touring bike.
I don’t know how to make this any clearer. Yes you can ride a touring bike on gravel. No one said you couldn’t. BUT, a gravel bike as it has evolved DOES have distinct design choices. Notably shorter chain stay (no need to accommodate heel strike for panniers emphasis on quicker handling), generally much lighter (heavy tubing to prevent load flex not needed) and overall a quicker bike. Its like saying, you can drive a F150 on a racetrack so therefore there’s no difference between a truck and an F1 car.
@@PathLessPedaledTV Whoa! Touched a nerve? It wasn't you that wasn't clear, you were. Certainly the F-150 and F1 analogy is extreme & not accurate as a comparison in any way. That would be like taking a 29-er hardtail to an indoor track race. My point was, the distinctions aren't so different to be clearly identifiable. Nor so great as to really make a huge difference, certainly not by sight anyway. Not like the clearly identifiable distinctions between a mtn bike and gravel bike. Point is, yes, I ride my touring bike on gravel = I have a gravel bike.
in europe touring bikes often have hub dynamos
Russ, I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on gravel vs cyclocross bikes. Not necessarily asking since I think I know...cross is snappier geo and conventionally less utilitarian, e.g., fewer mounts. More interested in how you think about their differences. Based on your reviews, it seems you secretly like cross bikes...since you seem to favor quick handling. Thoughts?
Did you do a DK200 on flat pedals? Thought that was a no no as you loose efficiency, interested to hear thoughts
Losses in efficiency are over stated for most. GCN even tested it and found flats were more efficient from an aerobic perspective, but then back pedaled and said they were probably ore efficient during sprints and hard efforts. 🤷🏽♂️For me we did many long rides and all the clip in shoes I tried started to hurt after hour 6th. So I traded efficiency for comfort.
Path Less Pedaled thank you, that’s very helpful as priority in my case is comfort but wasn’t too sure about efficiency part as we get bombarded by such statement as soon as you mention flat pedals. Thx again
I’m 5’10” What size should I get?
What's up with that Warbird in the stand? Not the same one you reviewed a while back. Has Salsa sorted out the fork thing yet?
Nice video! What are your thoughts on the Trek 920?
Russ, been enjoying your channel over the last few months as I've been sorting out my choices for my next "gravel'ish/road'ish/trail'ish/commuting'ish" bike. Since you're showing the Warbird 105 build bike on the stand, does that mean there's a review in the near future? That'd be awesome, as I've narrowed my selection so far to include that, and the '19 All-City Cosmic Stallion. Keep on supplin'!
Yes. We’ve got some longer term ones to ride this year. Will be doing some 700c vs 650b comparison vids, long term review, etc.,
Great video. Very clear an open opinion on the topic. It make sense
I've had a LHT for a couple of years now, and it is one of my favorites. I've had two dedicated gravel bikes. One was a Diamondback Haanjo (sold) and now I have a Breezer Radar. I'm doing the Dirty Kanza 50 miler, and part of me wants to do it on the LHT, although everyone tells me it's the wrong choice. I just love the way that bike rides in all conditions. My Breezer is no lightweight, so it's really down to comfort, and deciding between the disc brakes on the Breezer or the rim brakes on my LHT. Sometimes having a bunch of bikes to choose from is stressful! Anyway, love the video as always! Keep it up.
Which Haanjo did you have? I have the 2017 Diamondback Haanjo comp
@@pingpongballz5998 I had the 2016 Haanjo Tero, which I upgraded to a 1x10 drivetrain before eventually selling it and moving on to my Long Haul Trucker.
I bought a radar pro before Performance bike went under and it is quite contrary to my CX bike. I like them both for very different reasons. I thought about the Disc Trucker but I couldn't get the right fit at that time. And the Radar pro was 34% discount. Steel is awesome!
So you could say that a gravel bike is like a mullet, business upfront, party at the back.
MULLET? Ok, how long before we see the Surly Mullet?
That's exactly how I have described my RLT RDO... very stable upfront but likes to accelerate in a straight line
Answered a lot of my questions. Great video. Thanks.
Which bike would you recommend for a commuter? I'm planning to ride to work (30 kms of paved road and 10 kms of gravel road). TIA
Both would work well. Gravel bike will typically be a little lighter.
@@PathLessPedaledTV thanks!
Hi! New subscriber here 😊👍
Touring bikes don't need to have drop bars. Trekking bars are great.
European
I have trekking bars and they're awsome! I commute around Maui and conditions change quickly. Wind, hills, terrain and they're perfect.
Yes butterfly bars are popular in continental Europe
Do you have a say on the entry-level Triban RC120 from Btwin? Considering the spec sheet, I found it pretty budget friendly. However, it comes with 700 by 28 tires as stock and I don't know if it can accommodate tires upwards 35. Indian roads are quite unpredictable 😇
Great video, thanks. Could you comment on how the geometry influences how the bikes ride under load. Or, What makes a touring bike handle better when loaded up with panniers etc.
So really, just simply a gravel bike with a longer wheel base at the end
And heavier tubing to resist twisting forces of loads.
I have a vintage touring bike I'm using as my "gravel bike". It's a bit lighter and springier than modern long haul touring rigs, and has chainstay lengths closer to the Salsa. Only downside is the tire clearance maxes out at about ~36c. This bike has also been used as a fully loaded tourer and raced as a CX bike.
Some people covert their 700c bikes to 650b to get better tire clearance. Details available at various websites.
430 vs 460 ... Do most people feel the difference at all?
Yes.
I want to make my 2012 Cross Check (rim brakes) more gravel friendly but for rides, not races... maybe go a single front crank and 11 on the back... What’s the budget way of doing this? Any links welcomed :)
Drivetrain is the only difference right? gravel = 1x, touring = 3x
No
What brand and variant of bicycle is that behind you?
Succinct and to the point. Nicely done.
do they make a step through touring bike?
Velo Orange polyvalent.
I wish I could, as you have, actually experience riding all these. How different are they, how different do they feel? A lot? Subtle? Night and day? Kinda sorta? I have noticed from my shopping the gearing tends to be a lot different, with touring bikes generally having lower gears, sometimes with triples and often (yech) bar end shifters.
The handling is pretty noticeably different especially climbing and putting a little heat on the pedals. Weight is a factor, but also the long wheelbase and rear end. Sort of like the difference between a Cadillac and a peppier car.
Thanks! Loving your channel. And postcards as well.
I'd like to get an older steel bike and use 45mm wide tires. To get this clearance, would an old mtb or touring bike be my most likely options? Thanks.
Those would be a great place to start.
what about recumbents? Azub max, HPV Speedmachine, Cruzbike Q45, to name a few are categorized for touring
Thanks for the info, as I'm just starting out in learning about these sorts of bikes. One critique, even though I know this video is old, but it would be easier for someone like me (hearing this info for the first time) to follow if you just broke the video into segments as opposed to just doing a long monologue and jump cutting. As is, this felt like reading one suuuper long paragraph.
Thank goodness for the pause button.
@@PathLessPedaledTV That I have been definitely been making use of!
Speed!! That's the difference! You can ride a gravel bike like a road bike.... touring is a slower ride...
Please make paper note or mention that 2 equal riders just may be equal on these 2 bikes you compared.... possibly....
Great video... thank you for your help with this iv been wondering
Russ; America gave us the mountain bike and from that an explosion of ideas, trends and people who could look outside the box. Cycling would have died a death without the mountain bike. Gravel is the same , it as shown people that there is another type of cycling out there. I'm all for the type of cycling of today. Here in England we will always be behind we don't have people like you or Henry Wildberry or groups like the Tumbleweeds to show s the way !!.
If I buy a gravel bike can i ride on a tar road?
Yes.
Helpful, thanks!
Great vid. 👍
How would you class a Marin Four Corners?
I agree.
Okay, next one has got to be hybrids, right?
Not doing that one.
Have u tried the Kona Sutra?
No.
useful info 👌
Good video
Any rigid bike on gravel/rough road will rattle your fillings loose.. I don't buy that hole "gravel bike" thing... 😵
i know right?
Lowering tire pressure helps with rigid forks on gravel.
Quite frankly ... This "fragmentation" of bicycle types confuses and annoys me. Especially when I believe it's all marketing in the first place ...
I disagree. There is a distinct difference. That's like saying a mountain bike is just like a road bike. Or Mcdonalds is the same as vegan food. The differences aren't as obvious but they are there. I think the noobiest of noobs could tell a difference from LHT to Crosscheck if you rode them back to back.
Touring bikes are easy to sell to old people, gravel bikes are easy to sell to young people.
Sure. That's one way to look at it.
Would you recommend a gravel bike for around 100km rides? I have to keep up with mtb bikes and (sometimes) rough terrain.
If its mostly roads sure. If its mostly trails, a mtb.
@@PathLessPedaledTV well its mostly fire roads. For hard, techy riding i have a trail bike (which is hard to ride on long distances).
Fire roads. Yes. Would be great.
@@PathLessPedaledTV is it going to be fine if i will hit a rooty section or some mud? The trails i ride are an adventure most of the time lol
Sure. Occasional trail will be fine but slow. Also depends on tires.
How does a shorter chain stay help you bridge a gap? It might feel snappier but does it actually make for a faster bike?
Well. It accelerates faster so if there’s a train passing by you can get to speed and hop on.
Put in another way. If it didn’t why do race bikes use shorter stays?
@@PathLessPedaledTV Because longer chain stays means more frame material, weight, and flex. Race bikes don't have any reason to not skim off every gram they possibly can. On the contrary, if a bike is designed to be able to carry panniers, then there ARE reasons to make chain stays longer: more foot clearance but also less risk of having your bike's front-end lift off whilst hitting a steep hill, which is even stronger if you ride with a load on the rear and not on the front.
Another reason is that in a peloton, it is essential to have a very lively bike with which the rider can change direction in a split second. Survival is an art for these guys. A shorter bike (both in the rear and in the front) are much better for that.
I doubt that on a time trial, a rider would be faster on a bike in all other ways identical to another one but differing by the length of its chain stays only (same weight, aero, wheels etc.)
The original reasons usually given when mountain bike design moved to shorter stays were better traction going up hills, and improved agility or maneuverability in trails.
@@tve1964 well....maybe we'll try to get a power meter this year and try to test it.
@@PathLessPedaledTV For just testing that, I don't think it's worth your time, because it's going to be complex and cumbersome to isolate chain stay length as sole factor. Better to leave that kind of stuff to Jan Heine ;-) . But if you want to do it and do it well, I'm very curious about the findings. My guess: it is negligible and buried deep into many other factors.