There is a movie that actually does what you said and is call Guardians of the Galaxy it follows only the protagonist in the at the beginning, after that all the characters are trap in a prison and it focus more about the characters than the plot
Raid Mahdi Guardians weren't villains though, they were barely even characters lol. The reason Guardians worked is because they're a team of rejects, as in nobody would care about them since nobody, specially the audience, doesn't have any idea of who they are. You take that premise, breathe in some nice 80s into it and Boom! You have Avengers in Space. Suicide Squad has familiar faces, so you gotta work with that in a very different way, a darker way should I say.
@@radrno7 Yeah but IMHO I think that's where Suicide had it easier if it was executed better. They had familiar faces to focus the audience in on the characters and gain almost immediate investment in the characters from the audience. While GotG had to give you a reason to want to know more about these nobodies.
Raphael Adôrno guardians of the galaxy had more than just some weird characters and a good sound track working for it. And why does suicide squad have to have a darker tone
This movie is 50% Margo Robbie’s Harley Quinn And 50% Will Smith’s Deadshot. They nailed the casting on those characters and they played it well. The writing of those characters themselves... eh.
Why have dynamic characters with emotions, strengths, weaknesses and interesting story arcs when you can just have a sexy actress play Harley in her underwear and make sexual innuendos every five seconds, throw in a bunch of random characters like Joker, Deadshot, Katana to appease comic book fans, then add a cool song like Bohemian Rhapsody to make your film seem hip and relevant. How could a formula like that possibly fail?
@@Tekau1 I also find Captain Boomerang amusing and really close to his Comic book counterpart like Harley, Deadshot, And the entire SC/TFX, Except for Slipknot..
I think that even the plot of the story is bad. Suicide Squad is not meant to combat supernatural threats, like hoola-hoop dancing witches. They are meant for small operations where the government wants to cover their own asses and where the squad is expendable. This is what the film tries to set up in the beginning but then is completely lost once the incestuous witch plot takes over.
Totally agree, that was the main thing I didn't like, enchantress was just cringeworthy after she started making huge magic tornado thingies and shit, would have been much cooler if she just had some discrete psychological powers instead, like being able to manipulate feelings and thoughts among people or something like that
The only gripe I have with this video is that when the characters say out loud that they're the bad guys, I think it's more like they're just saying what society has labeled them as, not as if they don't think that they're doing the best they can with a bad situation. They say it, but do not truly believe it.
Yes, or at least they don't mean it in the same way the video seems to present it. Even if people usually consider themselves good guys (or want to be good guys), there are still moments when one thinks something like "it's good to be bad".
Image 13137 where’s the Joker? I know he sucked in the final product but almost everyone saw it to see the successor of heath ledger a decade after, so much for that
Alex Barba honestly that should be a seperate movie.. suicide squad is too early to have been made with 6 characters introduced first time n trying to give everyone a sympathy background origin... they should do harleys origin with her joker meeting 1st time and after that maybe doing suicide squad. Personally I would like to see all the characters to be in others film first to later team up in SS. Boomerang in flash movie.. deadshot in batmans etc
yeeaaa because that's what the whooole promo shit was about like everybody was excited about them, but we really didn't get that much about them or the punch we were looking for...
and make them do a "black ops" or something not get all heroic were the fuck was the justice league when someone on that power level was wreaking a whole city
@@marsonsaturn They tried to Make Deadshot the MC. Which he is in the comics and Harley is mostly along for the ride as fan service. Yet they decided to make both of them the MC and rushed everyone else because they only have 2 hours to establish a running comic side series Katana has literally nothing but "She has my back" and Mr. Guy who can climb anything.
It could be interesting to switch back and forth between Harley and Deadshot’s backstories. I think that both of those stories are good and should both get attention.
Yes, that's a good one. Many like to say that your character must be likeable but I would strongly disagree. Your audience is totally capable of caring about a character they cannot relate too. As an example in my current WIP the protagonist is a female super solider who is vulgar and impolite. She is the last person you would ever want to meet yet my critique partners praise her as being one of the strongest points of my book, because there is a deep mystery to her and she is a very active protagonist. You can create a detestable character yet at the same time have that character so compelling the reader cannot help but keep turning the page :) I'll certainly add it to the list :)
I actually remember a time when I got invested to "the wrong character". It was while watching Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2, when the character I liked the most was Yandoo's pilot.
I agree I think Deadshots arc would’ve been better, like showing his love for his family and doing whatever it takes to take care of them, seems like the audience would’ve loved him more, and have someone to root for.
@@gooberstein4166 instead of Will Smith hyping Diablo up to change his character into fighting, it shoukdve been where diablo makes friends with someone (Will Smith or Harley) and they get attacked and in reaction he uses his powers without knowing. Then he leaves and stays away from the group, no longer talking. Keeping to himself. Expand from there
I think the movie have more great flaws: 1) Bad villains. The villains were compleetly empty, their motivations and their traits were like... no one. 2) Bad plot. The story of the movie is like: "hey two persons are attacking the city, go there to stop them"... the heros go there and stop them... done. A lot of movies have horrible ploits like this, the two avengers have this type of bad plot, but they have good characters (some of them) so we do not think that the movie is sooooo bad, but movies with good characters and ploits are very better, movies like Guardians of the Galaxy.
It didn't need to be such an important event, in my opinion. Suicide Squad isn't cut out, conceptually, for world-ending events. Joker should have been the main antagonist, not queen of vortexes who wants to destroy the planet for power (cliche).
That was one of my biggest problems with the film. I don't understand why they changed the Suicide Squad to be the back-up plan if a superhero can’t make it when this would be their job to come help a possible world ending crisis. The entire point of them is to do undercover black-ops work and if it backfires the government can blame these known criminals/villains. By trying to make them heroes who are sent to save the world you lose what makes the idea of this group and the stakes great. This could have been a great heist or government thriller film but nope we get wannabe anti-heroes, evil wiggle goddess, and sky beams.
There's no words to express how sad and mad I am now because I want to see your version of Suicide Squad more than I want to see the current one, and I've already seen it three times.
Yes, yes, yes. However, I think you may have missed an opportunity. Harley is trying desperately to disguise her bronx accent and be taken seriously as a psychiatrist (who is also pretty hot). She thinks she's getting through to the Joker, and is never really sure if she is or isn't. The Joker seems to make progress, but throws it all into question by saying he was joking or changing his story, and he proves to her that her superiors or elder doctors don't take her seriously, which makes her get revenge by letting him loose on them and coming with him.
Diablo's death made me sad, he was my favorite character with a "good" motive, I guess. He choose not to use is powers, since he killed his wife and child with them
I disagree with your Harley rewrite. Why couldn't we just keep the original Harley origin? Everything you said is pretty much the same except she's a Dr, like in the movie. The Dr. Harleen Quinzel story is intensely interesting on it's own. It's a testament to just how clever and manipulative he is and how insecure (despite her profession) she is, that she could allow him to get in her head like that.
I see a problem with your proposed Deadshot story for act 1. If he had already came to the conclusion that he wanted to be a better man in act 1, that it would leave no room for him to have any meaningful character growth in act 2 or 3. (to be fair as the movie is now he has no character growth in any act, so you proposition would be an improvment.)
I think it's a valid criticism, but I think you could always make him really bitter about getting thrown in jail after trying to be a better man and he could be really aggressive and mean again with no problem, imo.
Same. I liked both of those intro descriptions, and I think it'd be OK to have two key characters to identify with, a man and a woman, in an ensemble movie like this. Spend the first act intercutting between Deadshot's family drama and Harley's burgeoning relationship with the Joker. If you do that, then the scene where Harley refuses to kill Deadshot becomes even MORE powerful, because we care deeply about the pair of them, and their newfound relationship with each other.
David Marshall The issue though is that you gotta intertwine those sections and make them relevant for the plot and the story. Avengers, Guardians, X-Men, they all have elements that work as keys to connect the characters in a plot and make a story. Don't forget, these aren't the only characters in the film, so there are even more plots to juggle and with that, even more problems over the final product.
I quite liked the way the characters kept referring to themselves as “bad guys”, to me it always sounded more like a reference to other people labeling them as such for their own sake of mind than the characters themselves believing they were bad. I always like how free Harley was, never caring what others thought or how she appeared to them, so it makes sense that she would laughingly describe herself with a term used by others to make them feel better about themselves (since calling her a bad guy would indicate they were the good guys).
I thought that was just generally how they met (game, comics, tv shows, etc...) as one of the very few static parts of Joker's history. It came off as more of a reference to canon, y'know since DC movies LOATHE anything canonical.
This is a great video! I did see one video that said something I had never thought about before: Batman would never swoop down on deadshot in front of his child, and parallel losing his own parents in an alley. When I thought about it, although I never noticed, it would make batman a little less predatory and more of a guardian 🤷♂️
Actually, he would. He beat the shit out of a guy in front of his wife and child for some information about The Joker which leads to Dick Grayson leaving. His black and white point of view can’t see a criminal as something other than that.
Unpopular opinion: Leto could have been really good if he was given better material to work with. I'm not saying Heath Ledger good, but it could have been solid.
@@cadebiln Leto could never pull off this character. He doesn't even understand the the core concept of the Joker at all and you can tell that by all the cringey stuff he did behind the scenes like mailing people condoms and dead rats or whatever. He thinks being the Joker just means being "crazy and lol so random and weird".
Might I ask one thing, why is the common perception that villains always think they're doing good? I mean that is true in some cases (e.g Thanos, Anakin Skywalker, Zod, ect) But I can think of way more villains that are evil and know they're evil, whether they feel good about being evil or not (The Emperor, The Joker arguably, Sauron, ect.) I think that more villains know they're doing wrong, the thing is most of that kind of villain is not usually written as well, however diving into a villain that knows he/she is evil and has to deal with that part of themselves would be an interesting thing to see in a film.
The whole point of her character is built around feeling sorry for her. She is a person who gets manipulated by a sociopath who emotionally abuses her on a daily basis and rarely fights back and always does what he asks.
Seems to me that you haven't seen any content involving Harley, what he described here is her most common origin story, she's always been a victim of the Joker and a representation of Batman's incompetence (his words, not mine). There are several post-Joker stories where she tries to redeem herself but the years of psychological abuse just keep coming back.
Not every person view themselves as the hero of the story. Some people are just selfish, some are devoid of compassion and empathy. Some people enjoy torturing, murdering and raping other people. Of all these things, the selfishness is the one that keeps occurring in everyone. Humans can be seen as being in an internal conflict between altruism and egotism. It is true that most people don't view themselves as the bad guy, but that doesn't mean they view themselves as the good guy. Bullies for example, often like to be mean because they find it fun to bully another person. It's feels nice to mock and laugh at someone else's expense. Often they do this in groups which reaffirms their belief that it's okay since they're surrounded by people who do the same. This has nothing to do with being the hero in your own story. Hitler is an example of someone believing that they're the hero, but if you look at other dictators it has much more to do with selfishness than believing they're doing the right thing. Various aristocrats throughout the centuries just appear selfish, if you ask me.
Michael B I think that Darth Vader is an example of a great villain who isn't relatable. If you look at the original movies, he appears as an evil confident authoritarian man who rules with an iron fist. This is something that differentiates him from a character like Kylo Ren. Kylo Ren seems more like Anakin, just whining and going into blind rage. He's not like Darth Vader who is confident, keeps his cool even when he loses the Millennial Falcon right before his eyes unlike Kylo Ren who just goes into a rage epidemic and destroys things. Of course, making relatable villain helps in creating a good villain, but the problem I have with villains that are too sympathetic is that they feel too redeemable. I always like Harley Quinn, but that was because I thought that deep down she was a good person, manipulated by a sadistic phycopatic nihilistic manic. I never saw as a villain, but as a victim and that means I'm not overly thrilled when the good guy locks up behind bars because my thought is "the good guy should help her become sane again!" There's many ways of creating a good villain of course and the question is what you really want. Do you want a character the audience to root for, feel sympathy for, root against or hate?
Sir Nils Olav Yes! I had so much trouble trying to find the right words over it. People keep saying villains see themselves as heroes, or at least the good ones like Doc Ock, Magneto, Thanos and Loki, but forget that a true villain knows what he's doing, he knows who and what he is and he still acts upon it, like Joker, he could be the greatest guy in the world, he'll always be evil. He may "look" nice with Harley sometimes, but he only does it to manipulate her. Deep down, what makes him such a great character is that he's as bad if not worse than you expect him to be, and he doesn't regret nor deny it.
Many people rewatch movies like this anyways, so I'm imagine if they had done both the back stories and had them in separate films, both of which converge at the beginning of act two and then go on to tell the rest of the same story. I'm sure it would've sparked more people to watch both as well as those who already rewatch superhero films, and then they could release both on the same DVD so people who saw the first act from one perspective can have access to both raising the sales on those too. It could also be a way to help catch up to the individual films marvel has already done for all their characters. Imagine asking friends, "You going to see the Deadshot version or the Harley Quinn one?" Just a cool idea I would've enjoyed.
12:18 Harley could've raised the gun to her own head and the Joker could've hit her as a response and then helped her up lovingly (would've gotten your previous point across AND added to the Joker's character because his first instinct is violence and then guilt due to his abused past). Then the team could've reacted to him hitting her and tried to protect her, but Harley would've called them off, as she's the only person who knows why the Joker acts the way he does. Great video as always, thanks a ton! I'm a playwright off to college soon and I'm planning on going into screenplay writing, as there's much more work in the film industry than theater (although theater is where so much of my heart lies!)
Making Harley choose ANYONE over the Joker would undermine her character IMHO so I don't like that idea at all but I did like a lot of what you said. Here is how I would make Harley stronger as a character without betraying the Joker. How to improve Harley... I love Harley Quinn. If you Google "Natasha and the Wolf" and you will find out that there was a real person very similar to Harley Quinn in real life who gave a gun to a serial killer on death row (it was her idea not the killer's.) Now how to make her more compelling. After a lot of contact with the joker, she makes a formal determination that while he is very traumatized and neurotic, he is NOT psychotic or incapable of understanding his actions. "He doesn't belong in Arkham," she says. "He can be rehabilitated." However, she learns that the reason that the Joker was spared the death penalty so far was that he was innocent by reason of insanity (Batman told them that.) However, now that she has given her professional evaluation that he is mentally competent and just traumatized, he is being transferred to death row. At this point, she is heartbroken and goes to him in order to apologize and he tells her not to feel bad, saying that either he'll just be dead in which case his problems will be over, or he'll go to heaven which would be great, or he'll go to hell in which case it must be that he deserves that. All of those are OK in the end... "so don't worry about me. Just go on back to your friends and have a good time. I want to think about you smiling... come on Harley give me a smile!" he adds making a cookie from his prison lunch "magically" pass through his ear and sneezing it out. "I don't have any friends," Harley replies. "Well you've got one now!" the Joker says leaning forward. (I borrowed this line from The Closer Look) "I'll miss you" he adds. "That's my line," Harley says through tears. "I'll be praying... for a miracle," Joker says making the cookie disappear. In the next scene we see the Joker saying "This isn't a miracle; this is a gun." The shot slowly reveals that Harley has given the Joker a mean-looking revolver, leaving us to surmise that the thought of losing him has driven her to become the criminal we always knew she would turn out to be. "You don't need to shoot it... just use it to escape," Harley says. "You make it sound so easy!" the Joker laughs. "Don't give up!" Harley pleads. "I love you," she confesses in a low voice. "This isn't where I expected to find love but... no matter. Wherever you find love, it's worth fighting for." In a later scene, as the pari complete their escape, we see the Joker try to shoot shoot a captured, sadistic prison guard despite Harley's pleas not to. However, the gun fires a "bang" flag showing that Harley apparently gave the Joker a fake gun because she didn't want anyone to get hurt. "Harley I love you!" The Joker laughs. "This is my new favorite gun!"
Andrew Camden it's not against Harley's character to hold a gun to him. Sure, she loves him, but they do have disagreements. Her existence doesn't revolve around doing whatever Joker wants from her at the drop of a hat. Besides, they're both so psychotic and violent that her pointing a gun at him or even shooting him with it wouldn't have the same affect on their relationship as it would have on a healthy one.
I'd argue that Rick Flag is no less of a villain than the others. Deadshot had a good point. The only difference between Rick and Deadshot was who's signing their pay checks. Even then Deadshot still showed more of a moral compass than Rick if you take into consideration Waller's "They weren't cleared for this" scene where she just mercilessly slaughters those lackeys and Rick just shrugs it off. Also, for everyone bitching about contradicting statements about the three act set up need to go rewatch the old video. The threeact set up is a crutch that Suicide Squad CLEARLY needed. But, it's a crutch you don't need if you're good at what you do.
The funniest thing? Gunn has kept the same kind of beginning of the film (i.e. the characters that are shown to us right away in prison with no unnecessary backstories) and the opening works perfectly.
I wasn't super on board with the Harley story line you came up with at first but then, when you got to the machine gun line, it all clicked for me and I got chills by that idea. I REALLY wish the movie was more like that!!!
I actually like that they accept that they are the villains. It’s a nice twist to the usual norm, and it makes them feel like more old, run-down villains. They know they are doing wrong, but they don’t care, because it’s all they know.
theres one thing i never understood about harleen: shes a hot chikc, blonde, smart, and very nice (pre jokerised) why does she not have any friends?, heck even her personality is pretty good for finding friends and even really shy people can find someone besides that little fact (which is only a flaw in your story if reviewed my cinema sins) is flawless why do all the dumb people make movies? i want you in hollywood
well... i saw enough examples of movies with tons of budget, a lot of freedom, and no real restricitons besides showing maybe porn like scenes... deadpool as example didnt have a lot of money, ryan reynolds paid part of the movie with his own wallet and they had to cut a few fights out, its still good without all those things, i dont know THAT much about movie making, but suicide squad had enough:potential, freedom (for a not r rated movie) it seems more like a fanfiction of a girl who didnt read the comics, deadshot was... basically will smith in a costume, i couldnt see the character in him, just the actor which is not the problem with other movies hes in, there are major plot holes and it was all written like avengers, avengers had basically 5 years or so for the heroes to develop, we all knew captain america, iron man and the hulk... but most of the people watching suicide squad didnt, for me, making a movie with multiple storys like ss did, if its a crossover or a sequel, telling it from deadshotso r harley perspective is not just better, but easier too, you could even give all characters who survived a comeback in later movies, giving their side characters in ss more weight but thats a future idea so i cant tell if they will do it wrong or not
Robin Rummeda just so you know most of the times its the studio/producers who interferes in between and the writers cant put the well vision on the script and has to make things short-cuts
I've read somewhere, that they made Suicide Squad and had a test view, the audience didn't like it, and they recut the whole movie. Cutting off several minutes of the parts with the Joker. I'd like to see the original version after what they delivered in the end. Maybe the move had a first act. PS: Henry S., please don't use red, green & blue in the reversed order like you did with the three split in the part with the acts. You had act 1 = blue, act 2 = green and act 3 = red. It feels wrong man :D It's called RGB-colorspace, not BGR. Thanks!
I think the first act should have been all about Dr. Moone struggling to "control" the Enchantress while in prison (like in the comics, where she is attempting to pursue her career as a graphics designer from prison, only to be sabotaged by the Enchantress making her paintings grotesque and terrifying.) This would have made her a more sympathetic villain, as we remember Dr. Moone as a good person, trapped by the Enchantress' evil. June Moone should be set up as the apparent protagonist, until the twist that Enchantress takes over and tries to conquer/destroy the world - leading to perhaps Deadshot or Harley Quinn being revealed as the "true" protagonist. The second act should focus on Harley Quinn and the Joker, particularly getting into how the Joker is both sabotaging Harley's growth as a person, and jeopardizing their mission in the Suicide Squad. It should revolve around Harley being compromised as a member of the team, because of her love for the Joker, perhaps going so far as betraying or abandoning them, only to overcome (at least temporarily) her codependent abusive relationship, break up with the Joker, and return to the Suicide Squad. The final act should be about the Suicide Squad coming together to *SAVE* June Moone, their friend, despite Waller's orders to kill her. Risking their lives for a team member who is arguable the only "good" person in the group - only possessed by an evil spirit. That's just how I'd have written it.
I think Harley being the main character would be cool cause dr.moon could be a good foil. Also, addition to the Harley Quinn joker shooting scene that you propose. What if she pulls the trigger on the joker gun doesn't shoot or it shoots a little bang flag (as a nice nod to some comic) and the joker just laughs then tries to attack her before running away is the rest of the squad starts trying to attack him. She says that she's fine pause for a second and then says let's go get a drink which would cut a few minutes off the run time and allow them to transition smoothly in the bar scene. Which wasn't great by any means but would be a great place for some characterization
While you were narrating the fixed version, with Harley, i replaced the movie in my mind with that and just left it that way. You are a truly powerful writer and storyteller
I saw the movie 3 times in theater. There Is A First Act! It's when you are basically introduced to all the main characters. The First Act shows you the primary characters in the film, they are in prison, and it also shows how they got in the prison to begin with. It also shows you the primary villain and what the primary villain has planned. It has a backstory for every character for the most part. It wouldn't be called Suicide Squad also if you just featured one character. And another thing despite the critics' disapproval they are still making a Suicide Squad 2. Note: Suicide Squad made 746.8$ million dollars at the box office out of a 175$ million dollar budget.
The problem with the film (leaving out what is said in this video which in my opinion is a little missing the point) is how the characters are presented: inserting their backstories in the restaurant scene unnecessarily lengthens the film with plots that don't really serve to nothing. The reason why Gunn's The Suicide Squad works so well is because the characters are made to understand not through useless backstories, but through their personalities that we see in concrete scenes (like Ratcatcher who doesn't want to get up or Polka-Dot Man being teased by other inmates). Both the film and the rewrite of TCL focus on the lives of the characters before the mission, but these are useless things, especially to start a film: it is always better to get immediately into the heart of the story, without wasting time. The other problem is a narrative structure more similar to a videogame than to a movie: the characters walk, have an action scene where nothing happens, they walk, they have another useless action scene, they walk, scene d action, and so on until the end.
Would've loved to have seen the scene you described with the Harley aiming at the Joker (or pulling the trigger on Deadshot) and, in true Joker fashion, a flag pops out of the gun reading "Bang!". Being that "life is a joke" to the Joker, it would be a way for him to prove both Harley's loyalty and how he's just playing with the lives of the other characters.
While I like your ideas for rewrites the problem arises that most of the rewritten things are things most fans of the “major characters” ie Harley joker and dead shot have seen before the Harley joker intimacy scene has been done in both the animated series and the games and well. The other issue is there is a suicide squad animated movie called Batman assault on Arkham that was pretty good and it deals with a lot of the stuff you’ve laid out. Thus my point is avoiding comparison to other such films games and things these rewrites would have been hard at best. I would have still preferred your version over what we got.
I agree with the philosophy on villains and all... but I gotta say that Deadshot seems to have called them the bad guys because everyone else does, called Harley evil because he's observing her from an outward point of view, and Harley I think she knows she's bad the entire time. So does Joker. Like they may think they have a point to make but they know damn well they're in the wrong but don't care because they're psychopaths and sociopaths. It makes it a little different then.
literally all comic book villains know they're villains, except maybe Loki, but the joker DEFINITELY does and harley goes with him so she makes sense too
Of all the scenes in Suicide Squad I actually really liked the Bar scene. It tried to make the characters seem human and believable but I do think your re-write would be a good way to do it as well.
I have to agree with you. The writers could have done way more things with your idea. If they went with Harley‘s backstory, we would have cared more about the others and sympathize with her because we wanted her to keep the new found friends. If they made Deadshot the main-protagonist they could have shown his struggles to live a normal life and his arguments about his opinion with the group. This would have created more tension in said group and they would be more realistic.
TL;DR - I should make a video. 🤓 I while that is all good advise, the premise needed to be validated. They needed something to show the idea working. I would say a montage of various DC villains going on black op suicide missions would have worked. Have them fight and die on several missions. Start with the Bohemian Rhapsody everyone loved so much (if you are going to pay the royalties make it worth it). During the “let me go”s show a series of Waller in a debriefing room in front of a bunch villains shot from the neck down and one headless body after another falling over, after second or third she starts wear a rain poncho followed by people trying to escape on the missions. During the montage show them bringing thing back like bombs, magic artifacts, files, terrorists, of DC villains, politicians, and just taking out targets. Show the fight each other but then saving each other, and sometimes clearly, deliberately, not saving each other b/c these are the “good” guys. Show Enchantress & Dr Moon struggling for control. Sometimes she is super effective at others she has to be saved. Outside the montage, make the team independent of the Superman stuff. US uses supervillians for black ops is believable. Maybe, *MAYBE* show them getting team to fight Zod when Superman shows up and US gov let him see if he can handle it before putting their black ops team so close to spotlight. Have the characters make the system work for them. Have the Cptn Boomerang or someone else with multiple life sentence negotiate that a mission gets a life term changed to a 100 years so he can still work off his/her sentences. Deadshot could work for furloughs with his daughter, by the time we get to the second act he might already be more under house-arrest than really in prison. Make Deadshot, Enchantress, Diablo, and Cptn Boomerang be old hats when Incubus is released. As for Harley, start the movie with some scenes of her helping patients (maybe your pity party can be in that part, pay Sony to use clip of her watching a clip from As Good As It Gets, where Nicholson explains how he writes women, it can pay off later). Really make it like she is getting through to them and is helping them through a heroic amount of empathy and acceptance, that can be what separates her more and more from the other workers. Eventually, have her accidentally helping Diablo dealing with the mental block to his powers that killing his family has put on him, she doesn’t believe he has an Ancient Aztec Fire god in him or whatever that was, but she deals with him as someone who has DID & is having trouble accepting he killed his family. Then have him miss therapy b/c he starts making flames agains and gets called into Taskforce X. Have her then talking with the Joker. Have him escape w/o her and he lashes out at her b/c she was getting him to accept the world as real. BTW there is a version of the Joker that is actually not insane but hyper-sane. Aware of the audience, not in a Deadpool way fourth wall breaking and random humor way but aware that w/o a great villain there is no compelling reason for show/comic/etc to be made; the joke is people are horrified by his crimes but w/o the all the spectacle their world wouldn’t exist (sort of a “cabin in the woods thing”). Let that be the unspoken version of this Joker, the subtext, as Harley seduces him into accepting the world, that is why he lashes out. Fast forward, Harley is now with Joker Batman bust in their hideout, Joker sets the place on fire to kill Bats but it traps their pet Hyenas too. Harley won’t leave them behind and ends up helping Bats escape saving “her babies”. She gets trapped by falling debris and now Bats saves her, but of course turns her over to the cops. Harley sheepishly asks if they can call it a wash and he handcuffs her to lamp post or something then leaves her for the cops and goes after Joker. She gets picked up by the cops while trying to pick the lock. In prison she starts talking to the guards about their issues. Meanwhile Incubus is released by cultists that still worship him. Incubus gets Dr. Moon and with his power suppresses Dr Moon completely. Waller still has Enchantresses heart, it doesn’t give her complete control but enough that she is too weak for them to go public. Incubus is trying to work to his sister’s heart back, and his cultists are imbedded throughout government working to find out where Waller keeps the heart. Waller gets Harley on Taskforce X to start rooting out cultists and to try and get Dr Moon back. Waller has her watch tapes of Moon and Enchantress. Harley starts to get invested. Harley goes through the heroes’ journey. Deadshot is her mentor. Her story is that to help these people she ends up giving so much of her self she loses herself. Joker still comes to get her, but she won’t abandon Dr. Moon. Joker gives her an ultimatum him or Moon. She refuses him. He is violent and lashes out but leaves. Joker meets up with his crew who wonder where is Harley, we see the conflict in him as he tries to her. Harley gets to Enchantress and to help Moon she agrees to take on the spirit of Enchantress. Joker Han Solos in and interrupts effectively acting as Harley’s Animus, & preferably killing Enchantress as she is leaving Dr Moon, maybe that soulsword. Have him tell her *she* is driving him crazy (maybe work in a “you make me want to be a better man”, to show he has been paying attention to her) he can then work with the team as a distraction. Release Joker gas on the cultists and drawing Incubus’s attention with jokes and criticism about how Incubus has no style or sense of humor how Incubus was a C-list villain that no one remember his name. This let’s Diablo get into position to restrain Incubus, the team works to get Incubus’s heart out. Waller tells them to capture it seeing the opportunity in a replacement for Dr Moon, but Cptn Boomerang and Joker work together to “accidentally” blow it up. After the explosion is missing. He still breaks into prison to get Harley like in the movie, and this time she goes with him.
These videos are truly helpful with my own writing. I’m writing a story and I’m using these advice. One day I hope you or other people will see an actual finished project (I never finish concepts)
![ทุกครั้งที่หลับตา (Lucid Dream) - AYLA's [ Official MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4i1OBAQyv58/mqdefault.jpg)
There is a movie that actually does what you said and is call Guardians of the Galaxy it follows only the protagonist in the at the beginning, after that all the characters are trap in a prison and it focus more about the characters than the plot
ah, it reminds that Guardians of the Galaxy actually a villain-turn-to-be-a-hero movies, just like Suicide one. But this one is good XD
@@raidspadel The Guardian of the Galaxy movies are better planned so there's that.
Raid Mahdi
Guardians weren't villains though, they were barely even characters lol. The reason Guardians worked is because they're a team of rejects, as in nobody would care about them since nobody, specially the audience, doesn't have any idea of who they are. You take that premise, breathe in some nice 80s into it and Boom! You have Avengers in Space.
Suicide Squad has familiar faces, so you gotta work with that in a very different way, a darker way should I say.
@@radrno7 Yeah but IMHO I think that's where Suicide had it easier if it was executed better. They had familiar faces to focus the audience in on the characters and gain almost immediate investment in the characters from the audience. While GotG had to give you a reason to want to know more about these nobodies.
Raphael Adôrno guardians of the galaxy had more than just some weird characters and a good sound track working for it. And why does suicide squad have to have a darker tone
This is the movie:
Character Design: 70%
CGI: 25%
Acting: 4%
Plot: 0.5%
Character Development: 0.5%
For me the music was 99% and the rest fit in the remaining 1%
@Alan Au Ikr, the joker looks awful.
@Alan Au Even the filthy Heath Ledger looks better lmao
Plot -274738
Wtf did even happen in that movie
This movie is 50% Margo Robbie’s Harley Quinn
And 50% Will Smith’s Deadshot. They nailed the casting on those characters and they played it well. The writing of those characters themselves... eh.
Why have dynamic characters with emotions, strengths, weaknesses and interesting story arcs when you can just have a sexy actress play Harley in her underwear and make sexual innuendos every five seconds, throw in a bunch of random characters like Joker, Deadshot, Katana to appease comic book fans, then add a cool song like Bohemian Rhapsody to make your film seem hip and relevant. How could a formula like that possibly fail?
You are oooooozing the kind of sarcasm Joker failed to deliver.
Bryce A. You had me until Bohemian Rhapsody being a cool song
Bryce A. I love bohemian rhapsody but it ain't exactly hip with the kids it's like what 40 years old
I would love to know their budget on music. Sometimes... and only sometimes, I can tell whether a movie or game is going to be shit lol.
Deadshot wasn't random. If you think so, you didn't watch the movie.
I agree 100% on the Joker, Harley scenario. That is perfect.
No offensive to him but he literally stole that exact scene word for word from arkham origins..
Ya
Is your name referencing bav
I liked your Suicide Squad so much better than the actual one
Gabe's Channel E443 so true
The truth hurts :(
Maybe someone should make a fan edit with the new scenes of course it would be new actors I dont think you could have margot robbie do the scenes
E443 Productions to be fair, David Ayer only had six weeks to write it.
You're welcome for 1k likes. :D
"They focused on plot over character" And the plot still sucked
Actually, the characters didn't suck. Deadshot was awesome. So were Harlequin and Diablo
@@Problemsolver434 that’s. not even half of them
@@Tekau1 I also find Captain Boomerang amusing and really close to his Comic book counterpart like Harley, Deadshot, And the entire SC/TFX, Except for Slipknot..
when a frickin youtuber proposes a better script than people who get paid for that lol
GameGusto TV True but it's always easier to criticize than to create an original screenplay.
XRioteerXBoyX criticizing one's own script is what you pay professionals for. Good scripts have rewrites. They need to criticize their original work.
Im pretty sure he copied that Harley Quinn origins part from the Arkham games....
@@christaylor7916 yup,he did
You should check out a TH-camrs called Nando v Movies. All of his rewrites are amazing
Your build up and delivery of "Well you got one now" gave me chills, and I normally hate Harley. Masterful work
Thanks :)
Nicholas Kratzer wasn’t that exactly what happened in the Arkham origins cutscene?
@@mrj6073 All the more reason, it's canon.
Me too felt chills man 🤘
Hate harley in this movie? Or just in general?
lol I didn't even remember diablo died.
Me too
he died?
I did. Because it was one of the stupidest moments in film history.
Truly memorable for me...just incredibly stupid.
I legit thought I was the only person, I keep hearing it mentioned and I am like "When the fuck did that happen?"
Earl Huffington Same? I thought he just kinda did his thing and walked off? This movie is so forgettable wtf
HERE COMES *S L I P K N O T* THE MAN WHO CAN *C L I M B A N Y T H I N G*
R.I.P. Slipknot, you climbed our hearts until the very end
If only he didn’t die. He could of defeated the Enchantress in two seconds through the power of climbing.
I'd pay for the kind of content you're creating
Thanks :)
I would, too. But you quoted a lot of the Harley Quinn stuff from Batman TAS.
^which is where she was created. If it ain't broke...
He already did
hope you like net neutrality
1. When did Diablo die because I don't remember that
2. Who tf is Dr. Moon
Edit: How the f*** did I get so many likes🤣
Fantasy Realm I don’t remember anything from the movie. Don’t worry, I didn’t get hit on the head, the movie’s just forgettable.
@@ryanb1374 or u just have a bad memory I can remember many things
I think Diablo died in the final battle? And yeah who tf is Doctor Moon
@@karuma2676 i have a good memory too and forgot almost everything that happened in the movie
Anonymous User agree
I think that even the plot of the story is bad. Suicide Squad is not meant to combat supernatural threats, like hoola-hoop dancing witches. They are meant for small operations where the government wants to cover their own asses and where the squad is expendable. This is what the film tries to set up in the beginning but then is completely lost once the incestuous witch plot takes over.
Omnipraetor I totally agree. The trailer was so misleading, I was beyond disappointed when I walked out the movie theatre.
Yup, this was not a Suicide Squad story.
that's because the films direct had no idea what he was doing.
So they are more SHIELD than Avengers.
Totally agree, that was the main thing I didn't like, enchantress was just cringeworthy after she started making huge magic tornado thingies and shit, would have been much cooler if she just had some discrete psychological powers instead, like being able to manipulate feelings and thoughts among people or something like that
The only gripe I have with this video is that when the characters say out loud that they're the bad guys, I think it's more like they're just saying what society has labeled them as, not as if they don't think that they're doing the best they can with a bad situation. They say it, but do not truly believe it.
Yes, or at least they don't mean it in the same way the video seems to present it. Even if people usually consider themselves good guys (or want to be good guys), there are still moments when one thinks something like "it's good to be bad".
With more character development, that message would be more clear. But since the characters are pretty flat, the message falls through.
You made me like this film because my subconsious replaced this with the actual film, thanks for that
The two reasons why I watched Suicide Squard:
Harley Quinn
Deadshot
In that order.
Image 13137 where’s the Joker? I know he sucked in the final product but almost everyone saw it to see the successor of heath ledger a decade after, so much for that
Boomerang And Amanda Waller Were Good Too
@@mrj6073
The successor part was Joaquin Phoenix.
I honestly liked all of the members of the Suicide Squad. The Joker was awful though.
Harley Quinn
Captai Boomerang
Are the main reasons I watched it..
I would have liked the movie to had gone deeper into the violent relationship between Harley and the Joker.
Alex Barba honestly that should be a seperate movie.. suicide squad is too early to have been made with 6 characters introduced first time n trying to give everyone a sympathy background origin... they should do harleys origin with her joker meeting 1st time and after that maybe doing suicide squad. Personally I would like to see all the characters to be in others film first to later team up in SS. Boomerang in flash movie.. deadshot in batmans etc
yeeaaa because that's what the whooole promo shit was about like everybody was excited about them, but we really didn't get that much about them or the punch we were looking for...
or if it went into any detail at all.
Lol they did, and they deleted 90% of Leto’s scenes without saying shit
Alex Barba mlnnl
"Evil is a point of view."
Honestly i would like to respond to your comment but i'm focused on your picture and name of account ^^
It's not about who's right. It's about who's left!
Nice pfp
Reminds me of Jack Sparrow.
@Mrimchaelson care to explain why?
I hope you get hired to write future films.
Don't fuck it up. No pressure.
"How to fix suicide squad"
Step 1: scrap the whole thing
Step 2: make a completely different good movie
Exactly what they did
And it was glorious
You definitely could do it that way
Two rules for fixing things:
1. Use ducttape
2. If it's still broken, you haven't used enough ducttape
Flextape
Darth Howl flextape is better
How dare you insult the Teachings of phill swift
Lol thank you.
What they should have done: seperate movies for each character ending with them landing in prison
Then do suicide squad
and make them do a "black ops" or something not get all heroic were the fuck was the justice league when someone on that power level was wreaking a whole city
Fixing Suicide Squad is like trying to glue a house back together
You're just not gonna do it.
Sgt. SBW -that went through a hurricane
And Henry did it.
I am the 100 like
How to REALLY fix Suicide Squad:
Slap a "The" in front of it.
I only watched suicide squad to see where the 21 Pilots song showed up. Man, I was so bummed out...
Elliott Barth what a waste of 10 bucks
When he was talking about the Harley rewrite I got chills when he said “alright... Mr. J” idk why
Harley Quinn should've been the protagonist, cuz let's be honest, that's all anybody cared about in the film
Would have been fun to have a less known character for a change legs face it Harley Quinn is mostly fan service (she has many great moments but yeah)
@@marsonsaturn They tried to Make Deadshot the MC. Which he is in the comics and Harley is mostly along for the ride as fan service.
Yet they decided to make both of them the MC and rushed everyone else because they only have 2 hours to establish a running comic side series
Katana has literally nothing but "She has my back" and Mr. Guy who can climb anything.
I wanted slipknot to be the protagonist
I liked deadshot more
She was the only character who had a personality, all the other bad guys were do understated they were bland & boring.
I believe this content should be shown to early film and media students.
The first act should have been slipknot climbing a lot of stuff.
It could be interesting to switch back and forth between Harley and Deadshot’s backstories. I think that both of those stories are good and should both get attention.
Could you do a video about making characters the audience cares about and what not to do?
Yes, that's a good one. Many like to say that your character must be likeable but I would strongly disagree. Your audience is totally capable of caring about a character they cannot relate too. As an example in my current WIP the protagonist is a female super solider who is vulgar and impolite. She is the last person you would ever want to meet yet my critique partners praise her as being one of the strongest points of my book, because there is a deep mystery to her and she is a very active protagonist. You can create a detestable character yet at the same time have that character so compelling the reader cannot help but keep turning the page :)
I'll certainly add it to the list :)
I actually remember a time when I got invested to "the wrong character". It was while watching Guardians of the Galaxy vol. 2, when the character I liked the most was Yandoo's pilot.
I liked the Deadshot version better.
Lucas Spies very true. The first half hour shouldve been around deadshot. Will smith's potential was wasted even more than leto's if you ask me.
I agree I think Deadshots arc would’ve been better, like showing his love for his family and doing whatever it takes to take care of them, seems like the audience would’ve loved him more, and have someone to root for.
Me too
#metoo
I think the both could've worked somehow. It would be interesting
The script you wrote was like a million times better! I forgot about Diablo lmao
I was sad when Diabolo died because he was the only one who was a little bit interesting.
Paula when he told the story of his wife and made the fire lady(his wife) dance that was sad asf
what about *the man who can CLIMB anything* one?
Harley is actually is a compelling character but the movie really did her dirty
Harley Quinn and Amanda Waller are the most interesting thing in this movie
@@gooberstein4166 instead of Will Smith hyping Diablo up to change his character into fighting, it shoukdve been where diablo makes friends with someone (Will Smith or Harley) and they get attacked and in reaction he uses his powers without knowing. Then he leaves and stays away from the group, no longer talking. Keeping to himself. Expand from there
When I first saw the Joker I didnt realize it was the actual Joker. I thought it was some edgy hipster cosplaying as the Joker.
I mean…. Isn’t that just Jared Leto playing this joker
I think the movie have more great flaws:
1) Bad villains. The villains were compleetly empty, their motivations and their traits were like... no one.
2) Bad plot. The story of the movie is like: "hey two persons are attacking the city, go there to stop them"... the heros go there and stop them... done. A lot of movies have horrible ploits like this, the two avengers have this type of bad plot, but they have good characters (some of them) so we do not think that the movie is sooooo bad, but movies with good characters and ploits are very better, movies like Guardians of the Galaxy.
ploit
It didn't need to be such an important event, in my opinion. Suicide Squad isn't cut out, conceptually, for world-ending events. Joker should have been the main antagonist, not queen of vortexes who wants to destroy the planet for power (cliche).
That was one of my biggest problems with the film. I don't understand why they changed the Suicide Squad to be the back-up plan if a superhero can’t make it when this would be their job to come help a possible world ending crisis. The entire point of them is to do undercover black-ops work and if it backfires the government can blame these known criminals/villains. By trying to make them heroes who are sent to save the world you lose what makes the idea of this group and the stakes great. This could have been a great heist or government thriller film but nope we get wannabe anti-heroes, evil wiggle goddess, and sky beams.
Tyrant Lizard King yeah, Joker was just the Harley Quinn's emotional lever, they used so bad a character that is so good.
Breanna Boyer that would have be very more interesting.
There's no words to express how sad and mad I am now because I want to see your version of Suicide Squad more than I want to see the current one, and I've already seen it three times.
Yes, yes, yes. However, I think you may have missed an opportunity. Harley is trying desperately to disguise her bronx accent and be taken seriously as a psychiatrist (who is also pretty hot). She thinks she's getting through to the Joker, and is never really sure if she is or isn't. The Joker seems to make progress, but throws it all into question by saying he was joking or changing his story, and he proves to her that her superiors or elder doctors don't take her seriously, which makes her get revenge by letting him loose on them and coming with him.
This feels somewhat clichéd since it definitely felt like "to take a revenge" might as well mean "to prove them right" before
I think you're giving the writer's too much credit, these are the people who made the Joker growl and purr.
Diablo's death made me sad, he was my favorite character with a "good" motive, I guess. He choose not to use is powers, since he killed his wife and child with them
He was my favourite too
I disagree with your Harley rewrite. Why couldn't we just keep the original Harley origin? Everything you said is pretty much the same except she's a Dr, like in the movie. The Dr. Harleen Quinzel story is intensely interesting on it's own. It's a testament to just how clever and manipulative he is and how insecure (despite her profession) she is, that she could allow him to get in her head like that.
14:53 dude, you accurately explained it! I’ve been wondering why I cheer for villains in cartoons, and was worried I was a bad person for it
I see a problem with your proposed Deadshot story for act 1. If he had already came to the conclusion that he wanted to be a better man in act 1, that it would leave no room for him to have any meaningful character growth in act 2 or 3. (to be fair as the movie is now he has no character growth in any act, so you proposition would be an improvment.)
Brandon Williams maybe this is the reason why he prefers Harley's act 1 than dead shot.
I think it's a valid criticism, but I think you could always make him really bitter about getting thrown in jail after trying to be a better man and he could be really aggressive and mean again with no problem, imo.
Respect to the amazing Suicide Squad movie I just watched through my ears.
This is great!!!
Although, I would do both the Deadshot and Harley Quinn origins.
Same. I liked both of those intro descriptions, and I think it'd be OK to have two key characters to identify with, a man and a woman, in an ensemble movie like this. Spend the first act intercutting between Deadshot's family drama and Harley's burgeoning relationship with the Joker.
If you do that, then the scene where Harley refuses to kill Deadshot becomes even MORE powerful, because we care deeply about the pair of them, and their newfound relationship with each other.
Yep.
David Marshall I totally agree with that I feel that would’ve been an amazing call.
David Marshall
The issue though is that you gotta intertwine those sections and make them relevant for the plot and the story. Avengers, Guardians, X-Men, they all have elements that work as keys to connect the characters in a plot and make a story. Don't forget, these aren't the only characters in the film, so there are even more plots to juggle and with that, even more problems over the final product.
I quite liked the way the characters kept referring to themselves as “bad guys”, to me it always sounded more like a reference to other people labeling them as such for their own sake of mind than the characters themselves believing they were bad. I always like how free Harley was, never caring what others thought or how she appeared to them, so it makes sense that she would laughingly describe herself with a term used by others to make them feel better about themselves (since calling her a bad guy would indicate they were the good guys).
Same here 👍
You stole that Joker meets Harley scene word for word from the Batman Origins game
You got me XD
Yeah totally .:D
yeah plagiarisms a bitch XD
I thought that was just generally how they met (game, comics, tv shows, etc...) as one of the very few static parts of Joker's history. It came off as more of a reference to canon, y'know since DC movies LOATHE anything canonical.
Not really
This is a great video! I did see one video that said something I had never thought about before: Batman would never swoop down on deadshot in front of his child, and parallel losing his own parents in an alley. When I thought about it, although I never noticed, it would make batman a little less predatory and more of a guardian 🤷♂️
Actually, he would. He beat the shit out of a guy in front of his wife and child for some information about The Joker which leads to Dick Grayson leaving. His black and white point of view can’t see a criminal as something other than that.
Your Harley 1st act probably was all that Jared Leto cut footage
Joker Makeover:
No More Damaged Tattoo
Remove Grill
Darker Hair
I know this is 6 months old but
Just dont hired Jared Leto
Unpopular opinion: Leto could have been really good if he was given better material to work with. I'm not saying Heath Ledger good, but it could have been solid.
Also:
No shirtless-ness
No tattoos period
No channelling Jim Carey
No cringey dialogue
noone he can act but he can’t pull off the Joker IMO - although his lines and design certainly didn’t help!
@@cadebiln Leto could never pull off this character. He doesn't even understand the the core concept of the Joker at all and you can tell that by all the cringey stuff he did behind the scenes like mailing people condoms and dead rats or whatever. He thinks being the Joker just means being "crazy and lol so random and weird".
Might I ask one thing, why is the common perception that villains always think they're doing good? I mean that is true in some cases (e.g Thanos, Anakin Skywalker, Zod, ect) But I can think of way more villains that are evil and know they're evil, whether they feel good about being evil or not (The Emperor, The Joker arguably, Sauron, ect.) I think that more villains know they're doing wrong, the thing is most of that kind of villain is not usually written as well, however diving into a villain that knows he/she is evil and has to deal with that part of themselves would be an interesting thing to see in a film.
damn son, this is some good shit. you made me sympathize with Harley. i never sympathize with Harley.
also thanks for this content, it's helping me write characters and think about things whilst doing that.
Emma Wit why harley? el diablo coulf be better
because i already felt like el diablo was the best-written character.
The whole point of her character is built around feeling sorry for her. She is a person who gets manipulated by a sociopath who emotionally abuses her on a daily basis and rarely fights back and always does what he asks.
Seems to me that you haven't seen any content involving Harley, what he described here is her most common origin story, she's always been a victim of the Joker and a representation of Batman's incompetence (his words, not mine). There are several post-Joker stories where she tries to redeem herself but the years of psychological abuse just keep coming back.
Not every person view themselves as the hero of the story. Some people are just selfish, some are devoid of compassion and empathy. Some people enjoy torturing, murdering and raping other people. Of all these things, the selfishness is the one that keeps occurring in everyone. Humans can be seen as being in an internal conflict between altruism and egotism.
It is true that most people don't view themselves as the bad guy, but that doesn't mean they view themselves as the good guy. Bullies for example, often like to be mean because they find it fun to bully another person. It's feels nice to mock and laugh at someone else's expense. Often they do this in groups which reaffirms their belief that it's okay since they're surrounded by people who do the same. This has nothing to do with being the hero in your own story.
Hitler is an example of someone believing that they're the hero, but if you look at other dictators it has much more to do with selfishness than believing they're doing the right thing. Various aristocrats throughout the centuries just appear selfish, if you ask me.
Michael B I think that Darth Vader is an example of a great villain who isn't relatable. If you look at the original movies, he appears as an evil confident authoritarian man who rules with an iron fist. This is something that differentiates him from a character like Kylo Ren.
Kylo Ren seems more like Anakin, just whining and going into blind rage. He's not like Darth Vader who is confident, keeps his cool even when he loses the Millennial Falcon right before his eyes unlike Kylo Ren who just goes into a rage epidemic and destroys things.
Of course, making relatable villain helps in creating a good villain, but the problem I have with villains that are too sympathetic is that they feel too redeemable. I always like Harley Quinn, but that was because I thought that deep down she was a good person, manipulated by a sadistic phycopatic nihilistic manic. I never saw as a villain, but as a victim and that means I'm not overly thrilled when the good guy locks up behind bars because my thought is "the good guy should help her become sane again!"
There's many ways of creating a good villain of course and the question is what you really want. Do you want a character the audience to root for, feel sympathy for, root against or hate?
Some people just don't care about others. Saying that "every villain is a hero in his own mind" is too generalized.
Sir Nils Olav
Yes! I had so much trouble trying to find the right words over it.
People keep saying villains see themselves as heroes, or at least the good ones like Doc Ock, Magneto, Thanos and Loki, but forget that a true villain knows what he's doing, he knows who and what he is and he still acts upon it, like Joker, he could be the greatest guy in the world, he'll always be evil. He may "look" nice with Harley sometimes, but he only does it to manipulate her. Deep down, what makes him such a great character is that he's as bad if not worse than you expect him to be, and he doesn't regret nor deny it.
thanks ayn rand
The Closer Look: "...I had to take a closer look"
Peter Griffin: "Ahhh!!! He said it! :D"
Many people rewatch movies like this anyways, so I'm imagine if they had done both the back stories and had them in separate films, both of which converge at the beginning of act two and then go on to tell the rest of the same story. I'm sure it would've sparked more people to watch both as well as those who already rewatch superhero films, and then they could release both on the same DVD so people who saw the first act from one perspective can have access to both raising the sales on those too. It could also be a way to help catch up to the individual films marvel has already done for all their characters. Imagine asking friends, "You going to see the Deadshot version or the Harley Quinn one?" Just a cool idea I would've enjoyed.
12:18 Harley could've raised the gun to her own head and the Joker could've hit her as a response and then helped her up lovingly (would've gotten your previous point across AND added to the Joker's character because his first instinct is violence and then guilt due to his abused past). Then the team could've reacted to him hitting her and tried to protect her, but Harley would've called them off, as she's the only person who knows why the Joker acts the way he does. Great video as always, thanks a ton! I'm a playwright off to college soon and I'm planning on going into screenplay writing, as there's much more work in the film industry than theater (although theater is where so much of my heart lies!)
9:00 Everyone would see that coming.
Yeah that made me cringe
@@JC19021 yeah your comment made me cringe
Don't ever. EVER. Do impressions again.
I'm gonna need therapy.
Strategy King Same... Same.
Yes
@@idonteatspiders2986 yes
Yes. Fucking hell i hated it
Oh grow a pair.
3:05
"Removing Jared"
I loved your impressions btw xD
And if you ever become a director: I WILL BUY AS MANY TICKETS AS I CAN THE DAYVOF THE PREMIERE
Ah thanks, I'm not planning on making any films though I am working on a novel or two :)
I STAN BOTH your Deadshot and Harley backstories. That's actually what I expected when I saw the trailer.
Making Harley choose ANYONE over the Joker would undermine her character IMHO so I don't like that idea at all but I did like a lot of what you said. Here is how I would make Harley stronger as a character without betraying the Joker. How to improve Harley... I love Harley Quinn. If you Google "Natasha and the Wolf" and you will find out that there was a real person very similar to Harley Quinn in real life who gave a gun to a serial killer on death row (it was her idea not the killer's.) Now how to make her more compelling. After a lot of contact with the joker, she makes a formal determination that while he is very traumatized and neurotic, he is NOT psychotic or incapable of understanding his actions. "He doesn't belong in Arkham," she says. "He can be rehabilitated."
However, she learns that the reason that the Joker was spared the death penalty so far was that he was innocent by reason of insanity (Batman told them that.) However, now that she has given her professional evaluation that he is mentally competent and just traumatized, he is being transferred to death row.
At this point, she is heartbroken and goes to him in order to apologize and he tells her not to feel bad, saying that either he'll just be dead in which case his problems will be over, or he'll go to heaven which would be great, or he'll go to hell in which case it must be that he deserves that. All of those are OK in the end... "so don't worry about me. Just go on back to your friends and have a good time. I want to think about you smiling... come on Harley give me a smile!" he adds making a cookie from his prison lunch "magically" pass through his ear and sneezing it out.
"I don't have any friends," Harley replies.
"Well you've got one now!" the Joker says leaning forward. (I borrowed this line from The Closer Look) "I'll miss you" he adds.
"That's my line," Harley says through tears.
"I'll be praying... for a miracle," Joker says making the cookie disappear.
In the next scene we see the Joker saying "This isn't a miracle; this is a gun." The shot slowly reveals that Harley has given the Joker a mean-looking revolver, leaving us to surmise that the thought of losing him has driven her to become the criminal we always knew she would turn out to be.
"You don't need to shoot it... just use it to escape," Harley says.
"You make it sound so easy!" the Joker laughs.
"Don't give up!" Harley pleads. "I love you," she confesses in a low voice.
"This isn't where I expected to find love but... no matter. Wherever you find love, it's worth fighting for."
In a later scene, as the pari complete their escape, we see the Joker try to shoot shoot a captured, sadistic prison guard despite Harley's pleas not to. However, the gun fires a "bang" flag showing that Harley apparently gave the Joker a fake gun because she didn't want anyone to get hurt.
"Harley I love you!" The Joker laughs. "This is my new favorite gun!"
Andrew Camden
I like this
Harley actually go against joker sometimes..
Andrew Camden it's not against Harley's character to hold a gun to him. Sure, she loves him, but they do have disagreements. Her existence doesn't revolve around doing whatever Joker wants from her at the drop of a hat.
Besides, they're both so psychotic and violent that her pointing a gun at him or even shooting him with it wouldn't have the same affect on their relationship as it would have on a healthy one.
Since Diablo was the one who died, wouldn't it be more powerful if the story focused on him?
"Tey din duu nuthin"
Im the 69th like yaaaay
They fixed it yesterday and the rating from rotten tomatoes is 99%
I'd argue that Rick Flag is no less of a villain than the others. Deadshot had a good point. The only difference between Rick and Deadshot was who's signing their pay checks. Even then Deadshot still showed more of a moral compass than Rick if you take into consideration Waller's "They weren't cleared for this" scene where she just mercilessly slaughters those lackeys and Rick just shrugs it off.
Also, for everyone bitching about contradicting statements about the three act set up need to go rewatch the old video. The threeact set up is a crutch that Suicide Squad CLEARLY needed. But, it's a crutch you don't need if you're good at what you do.
Good points :)
This is amazing, and your impressions are highkey ON POINT
Who's here after hearing James Gunn is gonna write a remake/sequel?
The funniest thing? Gunn has kept the same kind of beginning of the film (i.e. the characters that are shown to us right away in prison with no unnecessary backstories) and the opening works perfectly.
I wasn't super on board with the Harley story line you came up with at first but then, when you got to the machine gun line, it all clicked for me and I got chills by that idea. I REALLY wish the movie was more like that!!!
I actually like that they accept that they are the villains. It’s a nice twist to the usual norm, and it makes them feel like more old, run-down villains. They know they are doing wrong, but they don’t care, because it’s all they know.
You’re ideas as a writer is so amazing. Keep up that talent, Good man!
theres one thing i never understood about harleen: shes a hot chikc, blonde, smart, and very nice (pre jokerised) why does she not have any friends?, heck even her personality is pretty good for finding friends and even really shy people can find someone
besides that little fact (which is only a flaw in your story if reviewed my cinema sins) is flawless
why do all the dumb people make movies?
i want you in hollywood
well... i saw enough examples of movies with tons of budget, a lot of freedom, and no real restricitons besides showing maybe porn like scenes... deadpool as example didnt have a lot of money, ryan reynolds paid part of the movie with his own wallet and they had to cut a few fights out, its still good without all those things, i dont know THAT much about movie making, but suicide squad had enough:potential, freedom (for a not r rated movie) it seems more like a fanfiction of a girl who didnt read the comics, deadshot was... basically will smith in a costume, i couldnt see the character in him, just the actor which is not the problem with other movies hes in, there are major plot holes and it was all written like avengers, avengers had basically 5 years or so for the heroes to develop, we all knew captain america, iron man and the hulk... but most of the people watching suicide squad didnt, for me, making a movie with multiple storys like ss did, if its a crossover or a sequel, telling it from deadshotso r harley perspective is not just better, but easier too, you could even give all characters who survived a comeback in later movies, giving their side characters in ss more weight
but thats a future idea so i cant tell if they will do it wrong or not
Robin Rummeda just so you know most of the times its the studio/producers who interferes in between and the writers cant put the well vision on the script and has to make things short-cuts
Your first acts are so spectacular, it makes me mad the writers didn't think of anything like them....
I've read somewhere, that they made Suicide Squad and had a test view, the audience didn't like it, and they recut the whole movie. Cutting off several minutes of the parts with the Joker. I'd like to see the original version after what they delivered in the end. Maybe the move had a first act. PS: Henry S., please don't use red, green & blue in the reversed order like you did with the three split in the part with the acts. You had act 1 = blue, act 2 = green and act 3 = red. It feels wrong man :D
It's called RGB-colorspace, not BGR. Thanks!
(+Illu07) Only in little-endian! In some big-endian structures, like the Sega Genesis, it uses BGR.
Nah. I actually agree with you on this one.
I imagined all you said and that would have been a blockbuster. You are a great writer.
Edgar wright and Tarantino should've co directed suicide squad.
That is the most ridicolous but at the same time great idea I‘ve ever heard of.
Artyom Khvostov oh man that sounds like a dream
Yup one whole movie focused on katana and Margot's feet. Sweet
F**** yeah! It's gonna be like how Nolan bring a philosophical story in Batman
Your videos are so informative, every time I watch them I feel like I can make a huge improvement on my own work
I love and appreciate you and all your incredible work but your impressions had me HOWLING
I think the first act should have been all about Dr. Moone struggling to "control" the Enchantress while in prison (like in the comics, where she is attempting to pursue her career as a graphics designer from prison, only to be sabotaged by the Enchantress making her paintings grotesque and terrifying.) This would have made her a more sympathetic villain, as we remember Dr. Moone as a good person, trapped by the Enchantress' evil. June Moone should be set up as the apparent protagonist, until the twist that Enchantress takes over and tries to conquer/destroy the world - leading to perhaps Deadshot or Harley Quinn being revealed as the "true" protagonist.
The second act should focus on Harley Quinn and the Joker, particularly getting into how the Joker is both sabotaging Harley's growth as a person, and jeopardizing their mission in the Suicide Squad. It should revolve around Harley being compromised as a member of the team, because of her love for the Joker, perhaps going so far as betraying or abandoning them, only to overcome (at least temporarily) her codependent abusive relationship, break up with the Joker, and return to the Suicide Squad.
The final act should be about the Suicide Squad coming together to *SAVE* June Moone, their friend, despite Waller's orders to kill her. Risking their lives for a team member who is arguable the only "good" person in the group - only possessed by an evil spirit.
That's just how I'd have written it.
I think Harley being the main character would be cool cause dr.moon could be a good foil. Also, addition to the Harley Quinn joker shooting scene that you propose. What if she pulls the trigger on the joker gun doesn't shoot or it shoots a little bang flag (as a nice nod to some comic) and the joker just laughs then tries to attack her before running away is the rest of the squad starts trying to attack him. She says that she's fine pause for a second and then says let's go get a drink which would cut a few minutes off the run time and allow them to transition smoothly in the bar scene. Which wasn't great by any means but would be a great place for some characterization
While you were narrating the fixed version, with Harley, i replaced the movie in my mind with that and just left it that way. You are a truly powerful writer and storyteller
"Hitler, the most evil man in history"
Mao zedong: am i a joke to you
i also cringed at that line since there have been a lot crazier people.
@@Mimhere well yeah but hes not the most evil
I saw the movie 3 times in theater. There Is A First Act! It's when you are basically introduced to all the main characters. The First Act shows you the primary characters in the film, they are in prison, and it also shows how they got in the prison to begin with. It also shows you the primary villain and what the primary villain has planned. It has a backstory for every character for the most part.
It wouldn't be called Suicide Squad also if you just featured one character. And another thing despite the critics' disapproval they are still making a Suicide Squad 2.
Note: Suicide Squad made 746.8$ million dollars at the box office out of a 175$ million dollar budget.
The problem with the film (leaving out what is said in this video which in my opinion is a little missing the point) is how the characters are presented: inserting their backstories in the restaurant scene unnecessarily lengthens the film with plots that don't really serve to nothing. The reason why Gunn's The Suicide Squad works so well is because the characters are made to understand not through useless backstories, but through their personalities that we see in concrete scenes (like Ratcatcher who doesn't want to get up or Polka-Dot Man being teased by other inmates).
Both the film and the rewrite of TCL focus on the lives of the characters before the mission, but these are useless things, especially to start a film: it is always better to get immediately into the heart of the story, without wasting time.
The other problem is a narrative structure more similar to a videogame than to a movie: the characters walk, have an action scene where nothing happens, they walk, they have another useless action scene, they walk, scene d action, and so on until the end.
As always, wonderful video Henry! (I think your impressions of The Joker was good and Harley decent.)
I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there.
Would've loved to have seen the scene you described with the Harley aiming at the Joker (or pulling the trigger on Deadshot) and, in true Joker fashion, a flag pops out of the gun reading "Bang!". Being that "life is a joke" to the Joker, it would be a way for him to prove both Harley's loyalty and how he's just playing with the lives of the other characters.
I Enjoyed Suicide Squad, but I would have Loved your Version more.
While I like your ideas for rewrites the problem arises that most of the rewritten things are things most fans of the “major characters” ie Harley joker and dead shot have seen before the Harley joker intimacy scene has been done in both the animated series and the games and well. The other issue is there is a suicide squad animated movie called Batman assault on Arkham that was pretty good and it deals with a lot of the stuff you’ve laid out. Thus my point is avoiding comparison to other such films games and things these rewrites would have been hard at best. I would have still preferred your version over what we got.
I would personally choose captain boomerang for the 1st act as more of a character for the audience to relate too
Thomas Walker
Imagine a guy getting the idea to rob a bank with a boomerang and everything is going well... until frickin FLASH SHOWED UP
I agree with the philosophy on villains and all... but I gotta say that Deadshot seems to have called them the bad guys because everyone else does, called Harley evil because he's observing her from an outward point of view, and Harley I think she knows she's bad the entire time. So does Joker. Like they may think they have a point to make but they know damn well they're in the wrong but don't care because they're psychopaths and sociopaths. It makes it a little different then.
literally all comic book villains know they're villains, except maybe Loki, but the joker DEFINITELY does and harley goes with him so she makes sense too
Of all the scenes in Suicide Squad I actually really liked the Bar scene. It tried to make the characters seem human and believable but I do think your re-write would be a good way to do it as well.
"When Diablo died.."
Me: wait he died?? Guess I forgot
I have to agree with you. The writers could have done way more things with your idea.
If they went with Harley‘s backstory, we would have cared more about the others and sympathize with her because we wanted her to keep the new found friends.
If they made Deadshot the main-protagonist they could have shown his struggles to live a normal life and his arguments about his opinion with the group. This would have created more tension in said group and they would be more realistic.
Is the conversation u created for Harley and joker in the first act from Arkham orgins? I feel like something like that happens in the end of the game
In Origins, Joker talks to Harley about Batman but he’s vague and she thinks he’s talking about her.
TL;DR - I should make a video. 🤓
I while that is all good advise, the premise needed to be validated. They needed something to show the idea working. I would say a montage of various DC villains going on black op suicide missions would have worked. Have them fight and die on several missions. Start with the Bohemian Rhapsody everyone loved so much (if you are going to pay the royalties make it worth it). During the “let me go”s show a series of Waller in a debriefing room in front of a bunch villains shot from the neck down and one headless body after another falling over, after second or third she starts wear a rain poncho followed by people trying to escape on the missions. During the montage show them bringing thing back like bombs, magic artifacts, files, terrorists, of DC villains, politicians, and just taking out targets. Show the fight each other but then saving each other, and sometimes clearly, deliberately, not saving each other b/c these are the “good” guys. Show Enchantress & Dr Moon struggling for control. Sometimes she is super effective at others she has to be saved.
Outside the montage, make the team independent of the Superman stuff. US uses supervillians for black ops is believable. Maybe, *MAYBE* show them getting team to fight Zod when
Superman shows up and US gov let him see if he can handle it before putting their black ops team so close to spotlight. Have the characters make the system work for them. Have the Cptn Boomerang or someone else with multiple life sentence negotiate that a mission gets a life term changed to a 100 years so he can still work off his/her sentences. Deadshot could work for furloughs with his daughter, by the time we get to the second act he might already be more under house-arrest than really in prison. Make Deadshot, Enchantress, Diablo, and Cptn Boomerang be old hats when Incubus is released.
As for Harley, start the movie with some scenes of her helping patients (maybe your pity party can be in that part, pay Sony to use clip of her watching a clip from As Good As It Gets, where Nicholson explains how he writes women, it can pay off later). Really make it like she is getting through to them and is helping them through a heroic amount of empathy and acceptance, that can be what separates her more and more from the other workers. Eventually, have her accidentally helping Diablo dealing with the mental block to his powers that killing his family has put on him, she doesn’t believe he has an Ancient Aztec Fire god in him or whatever that was, but she deals with him as someone who has DID & is having trouble accepting he killed his family. Then have him miss therapy b/c he starts making flames agains and gets called into Taskforce X. Have her then talking with the Joker. Have him escape w/o her and he lashes out at her b/c she was getting him to accept the world as real. BTW there is a version of the Joker that is actually not insane but hyper-sane. Aware of the audience, not in a Deadpool way fourth wall breaking and random humor way but aware that w/o a great villain there is no compelling reason for show/comic/etc to be made; the joke is people are horrified by his crimes but w/o the all the spectacle their world wouldn’t exist (sort of a “cabin in the woods thing”). Let that be the unspoken version of this Joker, the subtext, as Harley seduces him into accepting the world, that is why he lashes out.
Fast forward, Harley is now with Joker Batman bust in their hideout, Joker sets the place on fire to kill Bats but it traps their pet Hyenas too. Harley won’t leave them behind and ends up helping Bats escape saving “her babies”. She gets trapped by falling debris and now Bats saves her, but of course turns her over to the cops. Harley sheepishly asks if they can call it a wash and he handcuffs her to lamp post or something then leaves her for the cops and goes after Joker. She gets picked up by the cops while trying to pick the lock. In prison she starts talking to the guards about their issues.
Meanwhile Incubus is released by cultists that still worship him. Incubus gets Dr. Moon and with his power suppresses Dr Moon completely. Waller still has Enchantresses heart, it doesn’t give her complete control but enough that she is too weak for them to go public. Incubus is trying to work to his sister’s heart back, and his cultists are imbedded throughout government working to find out where Waller keeps the heart. Waller gets Harley on Taskforce X to start rooting out cultists and to try and get Dr Moon back. Waller has her watch tapes of Moon and Enchantress. Harley starts to get invested.
Harley goes through the heroes’ journey. Deadshot is her mentor. Her story is that to help these people she ends up giving so much of her self she loses herself.
Joker still comes to get her, but she won’t abandon Dr. Moon. Joker gives her an ultimatum him or Moon. She refuses him. He is violent and lashes out but leaves. Joker meets up with his crew who wonder where is Harley, we see the conflict in him as he tries to her.
Harley gets to Enchantress and to help Moon she agrees to take on the spirit of Enchantress. Joker Han Solos in and interrupts effectively acting as Harley’s Animus, & preferably killing Enchantress as she is leaving Dr Moon, maybe that soulsword.
Have him tell her *she* is driving him crazy (maybe work in a “you make me want to be a better man”, to show he has been paying attention to her) he can then work with the team as a distraction. Release Joker gas on the cultists and drawing Incubus’s attention with jokes and criticism about how Incubus has no style or sense of humor how Incubus was a C-list villain that no one remember his name. This let’s Diablo get into position to restrain Incubus, the team works to get Incubus’s heart out. Waller tells them to capture it seeing the opportunity in a replacement for Dr Moon, but Cptn Boomerang and Joker work together to “accidentally” blow it up. After the explosion is missing.
He still breaks into prison to get Harley like in the movie, and this time she goes with him.
my thoughts when i read the title ''its FIXABLE???!!''
These videos are truly helpful with my own writing. I’m writing a story and I’m using these advice. One day I hope you or other people will see an actual finished project (I never finish concepts)
can you please make a reboot of this movie in your version?
I'm sad I didn't get to see a good suicide squad movie, but hearing your version in this video helped alleviate that woe. I really like your rework!!
How to fix the suicide squad: hire a director that actually knows this shit
hollywood, film production companies, somebody! hire this man! i’m begging you!