thats the idea witchers are taught to fight like that because they are playing to their enhanced agility most monsters would crush them if you went at it with blunt force most of those blows are fatal
I agree with damn near everything you said, and I'd like to add some context: Renfri's tale in the short stories of the Witcher is paced a bit slower than it's presentation in the show. More time means more development, especially of minor characters. Renfri's crew is made up of extremely skilled fighting men and murderers, but ultimately that's all they are. So, when Nimir and Vyr, infamous identical killers for hire are both slain in under four seconds of combat, you start to get a scope of how unfair the whole thing is. Being a supernatural being herself, a blessed/cursed princess, Renfri is able to stand up to Geralt significantly longer. Ultimately, she dies on the ground like her gang. The crowd doesn't understand what they've seen. They saw a man who moved too fast kill and kill as though he had fought children. They saw a horrible monster... a butcher. Scary stories spread fast and get twisted beyond reason. Perhaps Geralt will always be known as the Butcher of Blaviken?
There's a couple of other threads as well. Versions of Snow White have a huntsman taking her out into the forest. There is some allusion in the books of Renfri's band being dwarves. There's even a version of the Snow White story called "Snow White and Rose Red". Guess what colours are in her attire. The whole thing about the princesses in towers meme is also "explained". You could even argue that all of the blood shed during the time of the sword and axe are at least partially due to the abuse and killing of all those unfortunate princesses. One of the main on going threads of the story has to do with destiny and free choice. Is it our free choices that lead to what we do or is it destined to happen no matter what we do?
If you've played the Witcher games, you know that Geralt is, in fact, always known as the Butcher of Blaviken. Chased him to Novigrad, to Skellige, to Temeria, to Nilfgaard, even to the fairytale land of Toussaint- literally everywhere he went, people knew him as 'The White Wolf, Butcher of Blaviken.' The White Wolf, Geralt of Rivia, Butcher of Blaviken, eventually settled down in Toussaint on a villa given to him by the Duchess of Toussaint in exchange for hunting down a serial killer that had been slaughtering her nobles and knights. Depending on what you did earlier in the game, either Triss Merigold or Yennefer of Vengerberg come to live with you. If neither were romanced, Ciri comes to visit- if Ciri doesn't visit for reasons I won't explain because spoilers, Dandelion visits. Personally, I romanced Yennefer. And I guarantee that every person that saw my villa knew it as the home of the White Wolf, the Butcher of Blaviken, Geralt of Rivia, and his wife, the sorceress Yennefer of Vengerberg.
I don't know anything outside of the show, but I was just rewatching it and noticed something that slipped past me before. When Geralt is threatening Stregobor, the camera looks at Stregobor's hand for just a moment, and it appears he may have been holding it in the same position as Geralt, when he tried to get Renfri to leave and she said that magic doesn't work on her. Then Stregobor starts narrating what happened, starting with "Witcher... you butchered bodies in the streets of Blaviken", and that's when the townspeople really start riling up against him. At least in the show, it may be that he used magic to force Geralt out by putting it into everyone's heads that he was a terrible villain. Just a thought, but the pieces are all there, so maybe.
And still, I think they handled the different starting points for the characters perfectly. It made the story more interesting, and it sets up the second season well, now that all characters are together at the same point in time.
'Phrase' is exactly the word that is used in sport fencing to describe a sequence of moves without a pause, so it seems perfect to use it for that in stage combat as well.
in fact, in sport fencing, there is the "phrase d'arme", the phrase of arm, that the arbiter would have to tell to explain what happened until the last hit.
On the "being better when working with someone who knows what they are doing" thing: I learnt judo as a white belt while training with a group who were almost exclusively black belts. I cannot emphasise enough how much easier, faster and safer this made learning how to do throws properly. They could compensate for my clumsiness and lack of training by setting up perfectly, and basically meant I didn't injure either myself or them. Plus they could walk me through the more complicated throws and explain every niggling detail so my technique improved faster.
Also, when it's skilled-on-skilled, you can go faster and harder and have confidence that your partner will be able to keep up. When a skilled martial artist is fighting a novice, they pull their punches and keep ahold of their partner as they throw them to guide the landing and lessen the impact. When fighting another skilled fighter, though, they can go just shy of full force and expect to be correctly blocked or dodged, and when throwing, they know the receiver (to use the Aikido term) will know how to land safely without additional help. That's why a lot of martial arts teachers tend to have a high-level teaching assistant. There are multiple intertwined reasons for it, but one big one is that when they use them as a demonstration target, their focus can remain on the actual students as they execute the technique, with complete certainty that their assistant can handle themselves.
I went to a single dance class for Bachata when I was invited one time, and I still remember how incredibly better it is when your partner, especially if they are leading, is an instructor or has a lot of experience, it just flows so much better and feels natural.
Agree! I have similar experiences with my aikido training. The more experienced person really does know or readily identifies where the less experienced person will make mistakes and can adjust accordingly.
It applies in dancing as well. Say east coast swing for example, If you're alright as a follow a good lead will improve your dancing immensely just because they cue at all the right places in ways that you can pick up easily, but if you're only alright and partnered with a lead who does not know what they're doing at all...well you can get an elbow to the face. It's not always so cut and dried but I almost always danced better if I had an experienced lead.
Former VFX artist here. Nowadays, we hide the stunt performer under the face of the actor. So, especially if the motion is quick, if you can see the actor's face, it still might be the stunt performer. :D It's actually a really cool process and needs a lot of skill to make it look right (especially since they don't tend to give you the actual actor under the same lighting because they hate the VFX artists).
I recently learned about this and how one of the earliest uses of this was the original Jurassic Park, when the older child was hanging off the ceiling over raptors near the end.
And even back when you couldn't just CGI the actors face over the stunt performer there were tricks to let an editor hide a cut within an apparently continuous take; allowing the stunt performer to be slipped in even when you didn't think there was any way they could have been. So even back then it could be the stunt performer if you can't see the actor's face right this moment, even if you could see it earlier in the (apparently) same shot. (For example if the camera makes a fast spin to follow the action a cut can be hidden in that motion blur. In Firefly they hid the one cut in their long tracking shot through Serenity that way; a camera spin at the stairs to hide the switch from the spaceship's upstairs set to its downstairs set.)
I first learned about this VFX technique with Black Swan’s dance shots. The dance double talked about filming with VFX markers all over her head and face for head replacement shots.
One of the big reasons that I believe Gerald spins so much and he's fighting style is because he's used to fighting multiple opponents specifically monsters are harder to kill than humans, bed because they have armored hides or their skin is thicker than that of a human to the point that sword blade swung by a normal person wouldn't damage them that much. The spins help build up momentum forget to bring the blade down or to help cut through the hide well also acting as a crowd control technique to keep mobs of monsters at Bay so they don't just swarm him.
@@Sm00k I was just talkin from a scientific perspective I have never read the books so I was kind of stumped. So I decided to take my scientific and tactical knowledge and put it into a reason why a fighting style with have so much spinning and came up with the momentum and crowd control concept.
My first thought was that the spin gives him an opportunity to check the landscape all the way around, giving him an idea of what direction to expect danger to come or where to go should he need to use some element in the environment to help fight
I agree but... it would be nice if we saw him do that : cutting with insane strength or holding several opponents at bay... but we see him using it mainly against one opponent and not giving strong blows, instead just giving opportunities to his opponents to stab him in the back.
As someone with years of dance experience, I absolutely adore "it's basically just like very violent dancing." YES, this. I've done a bit of stage combat/fight choreo for theatrical productions and I've always thought of and referred to fighting (elegant fighting at least, with footwork, etc) as "dangerous dancing" ;) Been here for ages, love your videos, Jill! xx "Pirouette, Geralt! Pirouette like a ballerina with a sharp piece of metal in your hand!"
Hi! I've been a HEMA guy for a better than three years now, and I'm gonna drop a hot take and say that these fights aren't actually that unrealistic. I've seen a lot of HEMA folks decry the use of reverse grip in the first fight. Generally, I agree that reverse grip is less than ideal, but Geralt is fighting in tight quarters with foes on multiple sides. The shortening of the blade with reverse grip is going to let him use that maneuverable style he loves so much while providing a solid parrying platform. He also changes his grip a lot when needed, so the reverse grip is almost just an out-of-the-way resting state between techniques. I don't know that I would be comfortable changing grips so much in the heat of combat, but I don't think that it's beyond the realm of practicality for someone who's trained in such techniques--especially a preternaturally quick Witcher. He does a lot of weird grip stuff against Renfri, as well (Handshake to icepick to tonfa--OH MY!), but he's doing that while driving her back, and it's easy to feel like the change-up is making him difficult to predict. Combine that with what we can imagine is dedicated training in those techniques, and it seems plausible to me. The last big gripe, of course, is the spinning. He does a bit of a spin against the henchmen, but it's a super practical almost-single-time counter. In the fight with Renfri, he spins three times, if I recall correctly. The first is after he stabs his sword in the ground. He spins away rather quickly, possibly leaving the reach of his shorter opponent. It's not a bad way to do that, especially when your opponent is visually not ready to attack. Considering that Geralt is loading a powerful cut while doing it, and Renfri has reason to prioritize caution. As you said, it does telegraph an attack, but that's probably fine here: Geralt forcing her to be defensive while being out of reach is a type of defense for himself; it's not ideal for actually killing her, but Geralt doesn't wanna do that soo... The second spin is when he's got her backing away on the defensive. I've seen HEMA folks criticize this because, "She could just stab him in the back." I don't think that's true. Her momentum is carrying her backwards pretty hard, and she's clearly struggling just to maintain a sufficient defense. So, she really doesn't have the opportunity--physically or mentally--to "just stab him in the back." She also wouldn't be able to stop Geralt's momentum if she did, so... Likely mutal destruction. The last spin is immediately after the preceding one: Geralt does one of those big spinning cuts, displaces her weapons, then does another spin. Only this time, he changes his grips while his back is turned--He conceals the attack change with a blind-spot created by a similar move he's primed her to expect! Poetry! The reverse grip stab comes out of the blind-spot, and Geralt uses the opportunity caused by the feint to disarm Renfri. It's a great fighting moment. He's able to wear her down; he uses mind games to exploit the situation for optimal effect and a non-lethal resolution. Anyway, the justification from the previous spin holds up here, with the extra bonus of the faux telegraph and resulting disarm. Wow that was a bit long, wasn't it? TL:DR: Will you find Geralt's moves in a 13th or 15th treatise on longsword dueling or self-defense? Mostly no. Could someone fight effectively the way Henry Cavill pretends to in this scene? I think so. Almost certainly a wizards-tried-to-biomagically-engineer-a-super-soldier person could.
@@MrSilvUr hah you're welcome 😁 i have only just discovered Jill's channel so I've gone down a very fun rabbit hole of watching all the analysis of fight scenes videos. Previously my knowledge of fight scenes could be summed up by :"hey that looks cool" so I've learned a lot, also from comments like yours👍
Speaking as a martial artist OH MY GOD it is a pain trying to do cinematic fighting of any kind! There's so many moments where you have to slow down and be inefficient in order to be cinematic or demonstrative; to accomplish the objective of show *character* rather than just the objective of *kill the opponent.* It's so damn pretty when it's done professionally and I adore good fight coreography. You have earned a *very* happy subscriber, Jill. :)
yes, I was thinking the same thing... not only the opponent, but also position in relation to the camera, the coreography, no improvisation... hard work..
Watching cinematic fight scene feel like breaking it down to half speed sometimes. I understand why hey have to do it. The average movie goer won't be able to track the fight scene but it's nice to see that they added some variety in the witcher.
Treat it like when you slow down and pull all your moves when training a white belt. That or when they stick a black belt on a kid and throw him in the ring in a division way out of his league and you realize he has no clue what he's doing. I had that happen a couple times. I actually dropped my hands and waved the kid in because i was bored with the fight. At that point though he was so timid i figured I'd throw him a bone. Idk tournaments are different from stage i guess my reactions are instant without thought because training. Must be hard memorizing the whole thing before hand but suppose its like practicing a form.
The limits of the cinematic frame rate are brutal. But if you add enough frames to read full-speed martial arts choreography, you get The Hobbit, and no ona wants that. The compromise might be slow motion.
I remember something about Jet Li being way too fast during the filming of Lethal Weapon 4 and they had to ask him to slow down. Also with Bruce Lee during Green Hornet. Camera men were just not used to fights going that fast (and in GH, cameras not being good enough to track all the motion).
Henry Cavil earned himself a follow from me on Instagram a few months back when he straight up built himself a computer. he showed the whole world that he is a MASSIVE nerd. and i have oodles of respect for him for it. it seems obvious in hindsight that he would be equally nerdy about this as that.
And he apparently collects warhammer 40k from the golden boy he displayed one day. So yes he is unmistakably likable and relatable to all us nerds of all branches.
@@ericwolf9664 There is an epic moment in an interview where Henry Cavill was asked "So? Starfleet or Star Wars?", to which he replied "The Empire of Man". Definitely a warhammer fan :)
@@_de_reve they do exist in numbers greater than is often depicted. it's often more of the problem that the respectful ones lack the social skills or graces to endear them to most women.
...because the reason videogames break 1vMany fights into a series of 1v1s is the same as here; help instill the 'badassery' of the protagonist to the audience (player), and minimize the chance of said audience/player seeing the 'next guy' just waiting and wonder "why didn't they BOTH attack me?"
@@empath69 Sometimes it's done right where the main character actively seeks the 1v1. They target 1 opponent at a time and keeps moving so the others have to play catch up before they get their shot.
One other key moment in the Renfri fight that was glossed over is the moment that Geralt Really Gets Serious. When he decides he's done being passive and goes on the offensive, it only takes him about three big moves before he disarms her. Then you have that brief moment of "Oh Shit! He's got her." And then he slows right down. Again, giving her the opportunity to walk away... which of course she doesn't.
Well said Jill, this was a great perspective with which to examine the Witcher show. I agree, the Renfri fight was amaze-balls! I know true blue, swordy fighters get all "ppppffffttttt!!" About the piruet/slashieness of the Witcher's style, but you are 110% correct, the filmmakers/ choreographers remained true to Andrezj 's vision of Witcher Geralt style blade play. Tak
not to mention that the original ending of the renfri fight (book fight, not the polish series) was somewhat anti-climactic..... watching a woman bleed to death from the femoral artery for a couple of minutes while she's trying to lure you in and stab you with a hidden dagger is not really fun to watch. too bad the screenwriters did not put in the true tragedy of the fight..... the fact that renfri was hurrying back to stop her men from attacking the citizens because the wizard could care less about the town's people
Can we also appreciate the amount of grappling and half-swording that's actually kinda unusual for sword fights in American productions? Which is kinda a shame given how much more dynamic it makes the fight scenes.
@@Spartacus005 Very true the first time I watched this episode I totally forgot what they were fighting about because I was so incredibly distracted by Emma Appleton. Had to rewind lol
I like your deconstruction. You can see that the 4th and 5th phrase is like Geralt telling Renfri 'If I wanted you dead, it would be really easy' when he breaks through her guard and chops into her shoulder (Stopping himself from cleaving through her torso).
I've had some thoughts about this scene, especially with people who analyze this fight as if it's an actual fight, rather then a stage fight. If you look at the way Renfri fighhts, she does things a lot of things that an actual fighter wouldn't do, like passing the dagger behind the back to bring it up the other side. However, I took that sort of thing as them telling us something else about the characters entirely. The mooks have... various degrees of technical ability, but Renfri leads them because she has some amount of mutations of her own. These were something she ended up leaning upon, because most of the time when fighting 'normal' opponents, the ability to move faster then your opponent can react lets you get away with doing things that no normal fighter would. She was ALSO self trained, with no actual instruction in learning how to fight properly. For pretty much all the other times she's fought, she's been able to simply overpower with her abilities and kill them before they could react... and it's made even more effective because her speed lets her take risks that no normal fighter would take. The problem, though... is that it doesn't work versus Geralt. First of all, he has supernatural abilities on par with hers, and things she does that have killed probably numerous opponents in the past, he manages to stop (like that low dagger to the leg you see him catch). Second of all... Witchers aren't simply the output of the mutation process, but also lots of actual training with their weapons. So not only does he have abilities on par, he's got the train to fight effectively even if he didn't need to use them. These mismatches, as well as the whole idea of Geralt not wanting to kill her unless absolutely necessary, demonstrates why some of the combat seems off when analyzing it as a fight of two fighters trying to kill each other, but at the same time make it absolutely brilliant for the story it's telling us.
As regards the spins, you could argue that it's all due to his Witcher training, with him taking the chance mid combat to survey his surroundings, monsters not generally being capable of complicated tactics. Plus most people wouldn't know enough to push their advantage there, as opposed to duelists who would. Maybe?
Witchers have mutations that make them faster, stronger, more agile than humans, so though it doesn't quite look like it in the Netflix fight scenes, a witcher like Geralt can feasibly pull off flashy moves while fighting to kill and still be effective at using them
Ehh, not really. You'd be shocked at how aware you can be in the middle of a fight. You don't generally need to spin around. Also people would totally know to push their advantage. Real, Earnest fights all come down to a few things. Timing, Leverage, and Economy of movement, as well as a few others. The less you have to move to make the block or to stick the other guy, the more you can just, do. In the time it takes for someone to spin 360, your opponent not only has an entirely exposed, risk free, defenseless target presented to them now, but enough time to throw two to three shots before having to block a telegraphed and predictable shot coming at them.
As someone with both a dance and martial arts background, can confirm that spins (or pirouettes as the books calls them) are purely for aesthetics and 100% communicate to one's partner what one is going to do next (it's actually used as such in some partnered dances). But damn does it look cool to spin while sword fighting
I took some Aikido classes once, and the wife of the sensei, this tiny old Japanese woman, effortlessly guided me through the maneuvers with what felt like just her fingers touching my hand or wrist. It was amazing getting paired up with her, and I know I was better during those brief moments.
The main difference between Geralt stabbing his sword into the ground and Kylo doing the same thing, was Geralt did it to block an attack, while in Kylo's case he stabbed his sword into the ground and the guard deliberately attacked Kylo's saber instead of him. It's not realism that people go for, it's practicality, why that move was used instead of something else.
In fairness, according to Star Wars canon, force sensitive people are adept at anticipating near-future events. So he could have stabbed his saber into the ground *because* he knew the mook was going to swing there and the guy couldn't adjust his OODA loop fast enough to change his planned attack path.
@@improv6132 I've been saying this for years. Force sensitives are precognizant, which means in a duel between two force users, they both spend the majority of the fight making attacks they already know won't land. It's more like a strategy game, where you limit your opponent's options by interrupting his economy and forcing him to react to you, while he's doing the same to you. Eventually, somebody loses concentration, or gets forced into a sequence of exchanges too long to predict. You can afford to leave yourself open when you already know, through space magic, that the opening won't be exploited. You can be mechanically inefficient when your strength, speed, and stamina are magically augmented. You don't have to worry about leverage when your blade can cut at any angle, independent of cutting force. It's not a sword fight, it's a wizard duel played out physically. Technique is less important than staying in the right mental space to draw on the space magic that makes your physical limitations irrelevant.
i totally get what you mean when you talk about being partnered with someone more experienced makes your own performance better. im a jazz dancer and went to a salsa dance class. VERY different styles of dancing so i was essentially a nube. and it showed with every person i got paired up with. until i got partnered with someone whos clearly been dancing salsa most of his life and he would lead and instruct me and i looked like i knew what i was doing and i looked good at it. until the next partner and then i sucked again.
@@neoncircus2365 my guy, I've been to Applebee's many times. It's the post-show restaurant of choice for theater kids where I come from. It's also one of those places that, as an adult, I would never go to by choice anymore.
Also, do NOT compare Applebee's to Texas Roadhouse. Roadhouse has significantly better food, better service, and the best rolls and butter you can get.
The point you make at 8:50 onwards is really interesting to me when I think about Martial Arts. We absolutely are not trying to injure each other, but I often found myself getting chosen by the teacher for demonstrations because I was willing to actually *go for him* . Less confident participants were difficult to demonstrate with because you need an active participant in techniques.
I love that the stuntman term for the "performers essentially waiving their arms around to look like they're doing something whilst queuing up for their bit in the group fight vs the hero" is Putties. Named after the faceless baddies from power rangers.
Another great video. What I love about the Witcher is that they have moved beyond the 'bashing of swords' style of action and their cut, thrusts and swings look like they could actually hit the opponent. The opponent's parries and retreats and feints actually protect them or move them out of harms way. I know that camera angles, foreshortening and gimmicked weapons can add a lot to the performer's safety, but the choreography has improved so much, the old fashioned 'clash, clash, clash, thrust' then reverse, with the odd jump and duck style of sword fighting from the old and beloved swashbucklers and knights of the golden age of Hollywood, when seen today, pulls you out of the action faster than the overly obvious product placement shot during the deep and meaningful dialogue scene, later in the movie. We need Hollywood and other film makers to really start to use stunt and action performers to their best ability. Also to let the specialists guide the action rather than a director with very little knowledge in the art dictate a clunky action scene that relies on choppy editing and tight shots to disguise the poor action. As an aside, as much as I don't really enjoy martial arts films, the fight scenes that Jackie Chan and his team put together are just plain beautiful to watch. The action in the Witcher feels like this.
I practice HEMA, but when I first saw that fight scene, my reaction was really "Damn, this looks amazing. It wouldn't work but it looks great". It shows really well the characters intents. I still would change one move or two, but I love it anyways.
The joy of HEMA is that you're benefitting from (and sometimes contributing to) the reconstruction of the work of generations of masters in fighting against other men-at-arms. We can forgive The Witcher as illustrating a character who was taught by only one teacher, who himself might have been the first in his line and thus making things up, who was trained primarily to fight animals and monsters.
“Stock and uncommunicative” is the best and most accurate description of Geralt I have ever heard because its absolutely perfect. I adore your videos. Mostly for your humour and how you say things and the fact you make things so entertaining. I love watching all Geralt’s fights because Henry Cavil
The whole idea of "working with people who are more skilled than you makes YOU more skilled" is also very true in music. If you're playing an instrument alongside someone who is more skilled than you, you learn from them and improve. They know how to make you sound good while also teaching you how to actually sound better. Fun stuff 👍
Too true. They can also inspire you to get better. I played 2nd flute in high school and was never quite good enough to make first. But the flute bit in Phantom of the Opera is complicated, hard, fast and seemingly goes on for an eternity. All of us had trouble. So I put in a shit ton of practice and I played it twice as fast as it was meant to go. It took weeks! And then one band session, it came out to be played again. We were all on a level playing field at first. Then my other two 2nd flute companions fell away. Then one by one the three mains also fell away. And I carried on until the very end of that section, solo. It even got mentioned by our teacher and conductor. When I asked I said that I’d practised every day for weeks and learnt it twice or more as fast as was required. Yes, I missed a ton of notes. But when it slowed down to just crazy fast instead of insane fast, the missing notes weren’t missed and that was how I finished it solo. The other girls were slightly miffed and one said but you’re not supposed to play it faster. I just shrugged. It felt like a massive achievement.
But if you don't watch more Witcher, you miss out on Jaskier! You say you're too much of a wuss to watch past episode 1, but I think that's the goriest it ever gets? I don't recall much else. If you mean the monsters ehhh... other than the Striga, nothing is particularly frightening. I say that as someone who loves spooky but is a huge wuss. Maybe find a detailed trigger warning recap? They often explain the specifics of the gore and spook.
As a sword fighting nerd something I can appreciate in many 'fake' looking fights is the idea that they are trying to portray someone who has supernatural fighting skills. Such a person should look unrealistic in action. The trick is without using special effects and wire work not many director/actor teams can pull that off, and so instead they just make the fight unrealistic. I'm having a hard time thinking of an example where they got it right, any ideas anyone: A movie fight that did not use special effects or wire work AND portrayed realistic looking super human skill?
The closest I can think of is actually the Weapon X scene in First Class; I thought they had Wolverin moving at the perfect visual speed to portray he's not breaking the laws of physics fast, but he's phsycially faster on initiative and reactions time than all of the people around him and because of that can't be stopped.
@@nateskinner97 intramural foil fencing middle school, high school, and college. Some kendo, alot of goofing around with many swords and weapons. Not an expert, but can hold my own.
1. Given that the Portal series is my favorite ever, I need to see stage combat paired with any of that dialogue. 2. If you haven't seen the Geekenders' Portal 2 the Unauthorized Musical, please go do that, it's worth your time.
It’s so sweet. Christi (from Musical Hell, who I reviewed Portal 2 with) got me onto it and “Poor Unfortunate Subjects” is now stuck in my head again. Ah well 😁
@@jsharp3165 dude grimes up good. Henry does nothing for me - I wouldn't turn down a raid with him - but Geralt? I would sheath that sword in a heartbeat.
Just gotta say, don't know why I was sleeping on your vids for so long. They kept coming up in my suggested and I would fall back on something I'd usually watch. I'm 3 min into this one, and now I've got to see as much of your content as I can. Thanks!
Great analysis! (and after absorbing the various videos where you've mentioned Phrasing to us, I have enough inspiration to go rewatch some storyboarded fight choreography I drew back in 2019, solely to see what it said to the audience about my characters. If it says nothing, maybe I need to do some editing.) Thanks again.
I watched a breakdown of this fight by a professional sword fighter dude (I don't know anything about this.) And he said holding the sword backhand is generally a bad idea, but conceded that since Geralt is a Witcher, it's probably a fine stylistic choice.
He also didn't fall into a shallow ditch and break his neck. Seriously the worst enemy in the games are shallow depressions . Kill a dragon no problem but watch that first step it's a doozy.
The prison one? That one is insane. Not a single cut. Some skillful camera work so Charlie Cox and the stunt double can swap out, but still all one camera shot.
This was such a cool breakdown! It made me want to go re-watch this episode. Your videos have really helped me to appreciate stage combat, it's so cool!
watching your fight scene videos, i'm drawing connections to portrayals of music playing. or i guess lack thereof. the emotional connection to an actor with their face is also really important in music performance in tv/film. aaaaaand if you don't see an actor's face when someone's playing an instrument, it is also probably an actual musician. which i understand! music is very emotional! i love seeing the actor's face while they're playing! and sometimes, you need an experienced stuntperson! but sometimes, i question production choices... you know what would be really interesting to see? a TwoSetViolin x Jill Bearup collaboration with a music-related fight scene. there has to be a movie/show with a scene like that, right? would love to see you guys talk about similarities of your respective disciplines.
I had never heard of TwoSetViolin and I just watched them roast hilariously bad fake violin playing and they are so cute 😁 Probably they’re much too famous to collab with me but I bet it would be FUN 🤩
@@JillBearup the only musical fight scene I can thing of off of the top of my head is the one at the end of umbrella academy season 1 but the violin playing isn't meant to be real so I guess that wouldn't work.
No idea how many different analyses of this fight I've watched now but absolutely love this one. Really cool to hear your perspective coming from the stage fight point of view instead of pure historical accuracy which, as you say, is kinda weird for a character who is literally a superhuman mutant. Know it's old now, but thanks for the video!
I remember listening to a podcast years ago on one of the Witcher games. Apparently, the developers brought in trained swordsmen to motion capture as a base for Geralt's fighting style.
One thing I found incredibly interesting watching this fight is the way Geralt uses his sword as an extension of his elbow at times. In martial arts (Or just self defense in general), you're often told to use your elbows when you can as there's less you have to worry about breaking in your elbow than an unpadded fist, it'll hurt a hell of a lot more as it's a smaller contact point, and if you're close enough to go for an elbow strike it's a lot easier to use that outside swinging motion for a proper blow than it is to try to finagle a punch with limited space. Normal humans probably wouldn't have the strength to hold a sword like that as he does, but being a witcher, he's got no problems with it, not to mention him doing that fucks with a swordsman's muscle memory because he's essentially using 'hand to hand' against a bunch of mooks wielding weapons.
I literally just watched the first episode of The Witcher on Sunday and I was immediately head over heels with the fight choreo so I'm DELIGHTED that you have a video about the exact scene I was squealing over. :D :D This is such a great breakdown!
I have only seen three of your videos and I love your channel. It’s great to see a fellow action aficionado discuss some of my favorite action moments, and since your are experienced in stage combat ( and clearly more articulate than I am) this is a blast to watch.
Ok - you had me at the first malarkey (got a second one tapping out this) - already subscribing - youtube suggested your wedding fight video - will I EVER need these skills - no - joy & pleasure to watch - absolutely! Onto shoes, now - content I never knew that I needed *subscribed* ❤
I liked how you mentioned the discontent some people have with this fight because of certain unrealistic parts while focusing on why it’s a good scene overall because of what stage fighting is trying to do. I personally prefer when stage fights are as realistic as possible, but I appreciate hearing about the other side of the coin. It’s important to take reasonable liberties to express the emotion and story taking place more noticeably. Just saw your channel today and I’m liking it. Excellent breakdown of the will/Jack fight from black pearl by the way.
Re: long takes, curious what your thoughts would be on the fights in Atomic Blonde. I loved the fight choreography and how they had Charlize Theron's character getting very creative in order to take down guys much bigger than herself.
What I like most about this fight scene isn't the choreography, it's the sound effects. Seriously, the ring of those swords clashing is really what made an impression on me, it just sounds so good.
I like that it all comes back to using the right tool for the job Everything from fight choreography and filming styles to the range of prop swords 👌🏻 it's just glorious
Of the short stories in the first two books there were only a few that stood out for me and almost none as much as The Lesser Evil did. Everything about that story set the world, the tone, the mood and the character of Geralt so well. I'm thrilled that the show was able to do justice to Renfri and her tragic tale.
I've actually done something Similar to stage fighting in a PE class (weird school, we made swords in ninth grade) We had about two months of twice a week classes to practice a sword choreography, but my sword was sharpened so I was only allowed to fight people who weren't afraid to get cut. Anyway my partner and I worked not on an actual choreography but instead each other's body language and general fighting strategy. And since I can't hold back with a sword when the day of preforming came we were actually doing a real fight with actual swords. I still remember the gasp the crowd let out when after like five very slow choreographed fights, we came up and the sound of sword clattering filled the clearing. Then one girl who had the most polished and practised choreography got hit in the face.
@@Evija3000 Weird Waldorf school They cut alot of the art funding through lately I'm in that conglomeration of states wearing a trenchcoat pretending to be a country
This show disappointed me character and plot-wise (and I’m really hoping this will be amended in season 2) but one thing they got sooo so right are the fights
My lord!!!! I LOVE THIS VIDEO!! I saw this fight scene and was sold on the series a more stylised fighting style, this video is just a perfect in-depth look into why it had us all on the edge on our seats it’s like not like pulling back the curtain it’s more like watching and understand how much effort and work went into giving us the audience this feeling and it’s so worth it for the incredible effect it gives
you absolutely know how to tell an entertaining story and i just came to this channel but I am not sad. You have learned to put your humor, personality, experience into telling a story and it is fantastic!
This got me thinking, I have been a musician and artist for decades. My finger skills and twitch muscles are top notch. So I grabbed a brush and tried improvising what would be a similar routine that Henry would have to do, for that long. That dude has chops. Yeah, his abs are eye candy, but the guy is a monster. I love your channel, and a yuuge thanks for making this. Long shot action sequences are the bomb.
That episode was such a hook, no wonder it was the first one. I'd never read a Witcher book or played a Witcher game, but when I saw Geralt stoicly murdering his way through a bunch of henchmen to get to the crazed woman he was intimate with and convince her to give up revenge, the whole thing came together and I was instantly drawn in.
Of course the fights need to tell us about Geralt! The man has an allowance of 20 words per episode!
Pretending to beat people up while reciting lines from Portal 2... Haha
GLaDOS: "We both said a lot of things you're going to regret"
Priceless.!
Hi Caitlin. What kind of brewer are you? Me? In England I brew tea, in America it’s beer.
and at least 10 of those are "Fuck!" or "Hmmm." :T
Hmmmm
Hmm.
Geralt fights like an viking ballerina, and it's wonderful.
Best description
as a ballet dancer, I approve this comment
thats the idea witchers are taught to fight like that because they are playing to their enhanced agility most monsters would crush them if you went at it with blunt force most of those blows are fatal
Let’s see you fight.
@@ccspurgeon Was this comment meant to be hostile? I don't want to assume, but it feels hostile.
I agree with damn near everything you said, and I'd like to add some context:
Renfri's tale in the short stories of the Witcher is paced a bit slower than it's presentation in the show. More time means more development, especially of minor characters. Renfri's crew is made up of extremely skilled fighting men and murderers, but ultimately that's all they are. So, when Nimir and Vyr, infamous identical killers for hire are both slain in under four seconds of combat, you start to get a scope of how unfair the whole thing is.
Being a supernatural being herself, a blessed/cursed princess, Renfri is able to stand up to Geralt significantly longer. Ultimately, she dies on the ground like her gang. The crowd doesn't understand what they've seen. They saw a man who moved too fast kill and kill as though he had fought children. They saw a horrible monster... a butcher.
Scary stories spread fast and get twisted beyond reason. Perhaps Geralt will always be known as the Butcher of Blaviken?
There's a couple of other threads as well. Versions of Snow White have a huntsman taking her out into the forest. There is some allusion in the books of Renfri's band being dwarves. There's even a version of the Snow White story called "Snow White and Rose Red". Guess what colours are in her attire. The whole thing about the princesses in towers meme is also "explained". You could even argue that all of the blood shed during the time of the sword and axe are at least partially due to the abuse and killing of all those unfortunate princesses.
One of the main on going threads of the story has to do with destiny and free choice. Is it our free choices that lead to what we do or is it destined to happen no matter what we do?
I have not yet read the stories, so this is incredibly helpful. Thank you!
If you've played the Witcher games, you know that Geralt is, in fact, always known as the Butcher of Blaviken.
Chased him to Novigrad, to Skellige, to Temeria, to Nilfgaard, even to the fairytale land of Toussaint- literally everywhere he went, people knew him as 'The White Wolf, Butcher of Blaviken.'
The White Wolf, Geralt of Rivia, Butcher of Blaviken, eventually settled down in Toussaint on a villa given to him by the Duchess of Toussaint in exchange for hunting down a serial killer that had been slaughtering her nobles and knights. Depending on what you did earlier in the game, either Triss Merigold or Yennefer of Vengerberg come to live with you. If neither were romanced, Ciri comes to visit- if Ciri doesn't visit for reasons I won't explain because spoilers, Dandelion visits. Personally, I romanced Yennefer. And I guarantee that every person that saw my villa knew it as the home of the White Wolf, the Butcher of Blaviken, Geralt of Rivia, and his wife, the sorceress Yennefer of Vengerberg.
Renfri could fight him because of one single reason.
He didn't want to kill her.
I don't know anything outside of the show, but I was just rewatching it and noticed something that slipped past me before. When Geralt is threatening Stregobor, the camera looks at Stregobor's hand for just a moment, and it appears he may have been holding it in the same position as Geralt, when he tried to get Renfri to leave and she said that magic doesn't work on her. Then Stregobor starts narrating what happened, starting with "Witcher... you butchered bodies in the streets of Blaviken", and that's when the townspeople really start riling up against him. At least in the show, it may be that he used magic to force Geralt out by putting it into everyone's heads that he was a terrible villain.
Just a thought, but the pieces are all there, so maybe.
“If we’re going to be sensible and chronological” okay, that had me cracking up.
Double the amusement as that very much does not describe the series.
And still, I think they handled the different starting points for the characters perfectly. It made the story more interesting, and it sets up the second season well, now that all characters are together at the same point in time.
'Phrase' is exactly the word that is used in sport fencing to describe a sequence of moves without a pause, so it seems perfect to use it for that in stage combat as well.
Interesting, in historical fencing we normally refer to it as an exchange
in fact, in sport fencing, there is the "phrase d'arme", the phrase of arm, that the arbiter would have to tell to explain what happened until the last hit.
I knew I'd heard it in a fencing context before!
On the "being better when working with someone who knows what they are doing" thing: I learnt judo as a white belt while training with a group who were almost exclusively black belts. I cannot emphasise enough how much easier, faster and safer this made learning how to do throws properly. They could compensate for my clumsiness and lack of training by setting up perfectly, and basically meant I didn't injure either myself or them. Plus they could walk me through the more complicated throws and explain every niggling detail so my technique improved faster.
Also, when it's skilled-on-skilled, you can go faster and harder and have confidence that your partner will be able to keep up. When a skilled martial artist is fighting a novice, they pull their punches and keep ahold of their partner as they throw them to guide the landing and lessen the impact. When fighting another skilled fighter, though, they can go just shy of full force and expect to be correctly blocked or dodged, and when throwing, they know the receiver (to use the Aikido term) will know how to land safely without additional help.
That's why a lot of martial arts teachers tend to have a high-level teaching assistant. There are multiple intertwined reasons for it, but one big one is that when they use them as a demonstration target, their focus can remain on the actual students as they execute the technique, with complete certainty that their assistant can handle themselves.
I went to a single dance class for Bachata when I was invited one time, and I still remember how incredibly better it is when your partner, especially if they are leading, is an instructor or has a lot of experience, it just flows so much better and feels natural.
Agree! I have similar experiences with my aikido training. The more experienced person really does know or readily identifies where the less experienced person will make mistakes and can adjust accordingly.
It applies in dancing as well. Say east coast swing for example, If you're alright as a follow a good lead will improve your dancing immensely just because they cue at all the right places in ways that you can pick up easily, but if you're only alright and partnered with a lead who does not know what they're doing at all...well you can get an elbow to the face. It's not always so cut and dried but I almost always danced better if I had an experienced lead.
@@KrisOrcott Yep. It's very much a general thing, and can apply to a multitude of activities. 😁
Former VFX artist here. Nowadays, we hide the stunt performer under the face of the actor. So, especially if the motion is quick, if you can see the actor's face, it still might be the stunt performer. :D
It's actually a really cool process and needs a lot of skill to make it look right (especially since they don't tend to give you the actual actor under the same lighting because they hate the VFX artists).
I recently learned about this and how one of the earliest uses of this was the original Jurassic Park, when the older child was hanging off the ceiling over raptors near the end.
And even back when you couldn't just CGI the actors face over the stunt performer there were tricks to let an editor hide a cut within an apparently continuous take; allowing the stunt performer to be slipped in even when you didn't think there was any way they could have been. So even back then it could be the stunt performer if you can't see the actor's face right this moment, even if you could see it earlier in the (apparently) same shot.
(For example if the camera makes a fast spin to follow the action a cut can be hidden in that motion blur. In Firefly they hid the one cut in their long tracking shot through Serenity that way; a camera spin at the stairs to hide the switch from the spaceship's upstairs set to its downstairs set.)
I first learned about this VFX technique with Black Swan’s dance shots. The dance double talked about filming with VFX markers all over her head and face for head replacement shots.
2 yrs late but thank you for what you do, you dont get paid enough
One of the big reasons that I believe Gerald spins so much and he's fighting style is because he's used to fighting multiple opponents specifically monsters are harder to kill than humans, bed because they have armored hides or their skin is thicker than that of a human to the point that sword blade swung by a normal person wouldn't damage them that much. The spins help build up momentum forget to bring the blade down or to help cut through the hide well also acting as a crowd control technique to keep mobs of monsters at Bay so they don't just swarm him.
Thats exactly The reason in books and it becomes a plot revelant in last book as well.
@@Sm00k I was just talkin from a scientific perspective I have never read the books so I was kind of stumped. So I decided to take my scientific and tactical knowledge and put it into a reason why a fighting style with have so much spinning and came up with the momentum and crowd control concept.
My first thought was that the spin gives him an opportunity to check the landscape all the way around, giving him an idea of what direction to expect danger to come or where to go should he need to use some element in the environment to help fight
I agree but... it would be nice if we saw him do that : cutting with insane strength or holding several opponents at bay... but we see him using it mainly against one opponent and not giving strong blows, instead just giving opportunities to his opponents to stab him in the back.
@@christophe7723 oh I completely agree.
As someone with years of dance experience, I absolutely adore "it's basically just like very violent dancing." YES, this. I've done a bit of stage combat/fight choreo for theatrical productions and I've always thought of and referred to fighting (elegant fighting at least, with footwork, etc) as "dangerous dancing" ;)
Been here for ages, love your videos, Jill! xx
"Pirouette, Geralt! Pirouette like a ballerina with a sharp piece of metal in your hand!"
Enemies (see a ballerina): "Let me see what you have."
Geralt the ballerina: "A knife!"
Enemies: "NO!!!"
A+ commentary, i love you.
Quality meme
Hi! I've been a HEMA guy for a better than three years now, and I'm gonna drop a hot take and say that these fights aren't actually that unrealistic.
I've seen a lot of HEMA folks decry the use of reverse grip in the first fight. Generally, I agree that reverse grip is less than ideal, but Geralt is fighting in tight quarters with foes on multiple sides. The shortening of the blade with reverse grip is going to let him use that maneuverable style he loves so much while providing a solid parrying platform. He also changes his grip a lot when needed, so the reverse grip is almost just an out-of-the-way resting state between techniques. I don't know that I would be comfortable changing grips so much in the heat of combat, but I don't think that it's beyond the realm of practicality for someone who's trained in such techniques--especially a preternaturally quick Witcher.
He does a lot of weird grip stuff against Renfri, as well (Handshake to icepick to tonfa--OH MY!), but he's doing that while driving her back, and it's easy to feel like the change-up is making him difficult to predict. Combine that with what we can imagine is dedicated training in those techniques, and it seems plausible to me.
The last big gripe, of course, is the spinning. He does a bit of a spin against the henchmen, but it's a super practical almost-single-time counter. In the fight with Renfri, he spins three times, if I recall correctly. The first is after he stabs his sword in the ground. He spins away rather quickly, possibly leaving the reach of his shorter opponent. It's not a bad way to do that, especially when your opponent is visually not ready to attack. Considering that Geralt is loading a powerful cut while doing it, and Renfri has reason to prioritize caution. As you said, it does telegraph an attack, but that's probably fine here: Geralt forcing her to be defensive while being out of reach is a type of defense for himself; it's not ideal for actually killing her, but Geralt doesn't wanna do that soo...
The second spin is when he's got her backing away on the defensive. I've seen HEMA folks criticize this because, "She could just stab him in the back." I don't think that's true. Her momentum is carrying her backwards pretty hard, and she's clearly struggling just to maintain a sufficient defense. So, she really doesn't have the opportunity--physically or mentally--to "just stab him in the back." She also wouldn't be able to stop Geralt's momentum if she did, so... Likely mutal destruction. The last spin is immediately after the preceding one: Geralt does one of those big spinning cuts, displaces her weapons, then does another spin. Only this time, he changes his grips while his back is turned--He conceals the attack change with a blind-spot created by a similar move he's primed her to expect! Poetry! The reverse grip stab comes out of the blind-spot, and Geralt uses the opportunity caused by the feint to disarm Renfri. It's a great fighting moment. He's able to wear her down; he uses mind games to exploit the situation for optimal effect and a non-lethal resolution. Anyway, the justification from the previous spin holds up here, with the extra bonus of the faux telegraph and resulting disarm.
Wow that was a bit long, wasn't it? TL:DR: Will you find Geralt's moves in a 13th or 15th treatise on longsword dueling or self-defense? Mostly no. Could someone fight effectively the way Henry Cavill pretends to in this scene? I think so. Almost certainly a wizards-tried-to-biomagically-engineer-a-super-soldier person could.
This is an excellent comment; I learnt a lot! Thanks so much. :)
@@kashiichan Hey, thanks! It was lovely being reminded of this comment!
This was really interesting, thanks for sharing!
@@starbucksmocha88 hey! Thanks! Remember when I said it was lovely being reminded of this comment? Still true!
@@MrSilvUr hah you're welcome 😁 i have only just discovered Jill's channel so I've gone down a very fun rabbit hole of watching all the analysis of fight scenes videos. Previously my knowledge of fight scenes could be summed up by :"hey that looks cool" so I've learned a lot, also from comments like yours👍
Speaking as a martial artist OH MY GOD it is a pain trying to do cinematic fighting of any kind! There's so many moments where you have to slow down and be inefficient in order to be cinematic or demonstrative; to accomplish the objective of show *character* rather than just the objective of *kill the opponent.* It's so damn pretty when it's done professionally and I adore good fight coreography.
You have earned a *very* happy subscriber, Jill. :)
yes, I was thinking the same thing... not only the opponent, but also position in relation to the camera, the coreography, no improvisation... hard work..
Watching cinematic fight scene feel like breaking it down to half speed sometimes. I understand why hey have to do it. The average movie goer won't be able to track the fight scene but it's nice to see that they added some variety in the witcher.
Treat it like when you slow down and pull all your moves when training a white belt. That or when they stick a black belt on a kid and throw him in the ring in a division way out of his league and you realize he has no clue what he's doing. I had that happen a couple times. I actually dropped my hands and waved the kid in because i was bored with the fight. At that point though he was so timid i figured I'd throw him a bone. Idk tournaments are different from stage i guess my reactions are instant without thought because training. Must be hard memorizing the whole thing before hand but suppose its like practicing a form.
The limits of the cinematic frame rate are brutal. But if you add enough frames to read full-speed martial arts choreography, you get The Hobbit, and no ona wants that. The compromise might be slow motion.
I remember something about Jet Li being way too fast during the filming of Lethal Weapon 4 and they had to ask him to slow down. Also with Bruce Lee during Green Hornet. Camera men were just not used to fights going that fast (and in GH, cameras not being good enough to track all the motion).
It's a joy to see a breakdown that can address the technical work of the fight without going "no realism, boo"
Henry Cavil earned himself a follow from me on Instagram a few months back when he straight up built himself a computer. he showed the whole world that he is a MASSIVE nerd. and i have oodles of respect for him for it. it seems obvious in hindsight that he would be equally nerdy about this as that.
No you dont get it, he's not only a nerd,
HE'S A GAMER
And he apparently collects warhammer 40k from the golden boy he displayed one day. So yes he is unmistakably likable and relatable to all us nerds of all branches.
@@ericwolf9664 There is an epic moment in an interview where Henry Cavill was asked "So? Starfleet or Star Wars?", to which he replied "The Empire of Man". Definitely a warhammer fan :)
he is a nerd who respects women. men like him should exist more.
@@_de_reve they do exist in numbers greater than is often depicted. it's often more of the problem that the respectful ones lack the social skills or graces to endear them to most women.
also having the long take with the series of one-on-ones makes it feel a lot like a videogame
...because the reason videogames break 1vMany fights into a series of 1v1s is the same as here; help instill the 'badassery' of the protagonist to the audience (player), and minimize the chance of said audience/player seeing the 'next guy' just waiting and wonder "why didn't they BOTH attack me?"
@@empath69 Sometimes it's done right where the main character actively seeks the 1v1. They target 1 opponent at a time and keeps moving so the others have to play catch up before they get their shot.
One other key moment in the Renfri fight that was glossed over is the moment that Geralt Really Gets Serious. When he decides he's done being passive and goes on the offensive, it only takes him about three big moves before he disarms her. Then you have that brief moment of "Oh Shit! He's got her." And then he slows right down. Again, giving her the opportunity to walk away... which of course she doesn't.
Well said Jill, this was a great perspective with which to examine the Witcher show. I agree, the Renfri fight was amaze-balls! I know true blue, swordy fighters get all "ppppffffttttt!!" About the piruet/slashieness of the Witcher's style, but you are 110% correct, the filmmakers/ choreographers remained true to Andrezj 's vision of Witcher Geralt style blade play.
Tak
not to mention that the original ending of the renfri fight (book fight, not the polish series) was somewhat anti-climactic..... watching a woman bleed to death from the femoral artery for a couple of minutes while she's trying to lure you in and stab you with a hidden dagger is not really fun to watch. too bad the screenwriters did not put in the true tragedy of the fight..... the fact that renfri was hurrying back to stop her men from attacking the citizens because the wizard could care less about the town's people
Can we also appreciate the amount of grappling and half-swording that's actually kinda unusual for sword fights in American productions? Which is kinda a shame given how much more dynamic it makes the fight scenes.
How are we supposed to think about anything else when Henry Cavill is on screen?!
How are we supposed to think about anything else when Emma Appleton and Lucy Cork are on screen?
What else are we supposed to think when they're BOTH on the screen?! Oh, won't anyone think of the poor bisexuals!
@@Spartacus005 Very true the first time I watched this episode I totally forgot what they were fighting about because I was so incredibly distracted by Emma Appleton. Had to rewind lol
And the aces are, like Cavil, distracted by the swords.
As a ballroom dance instructor and amateur stage combatant, I absolutely adore what you’re doing here with your channel as a whole. Brava! 👏👏👏
The road to el dorado stage combat? Yes, please.
Miguel and Tulio! Mighty and powerful GODS.
That fight in the beginning was great
Both is good.
“You fight like my sister!”
“I‘ve fought your sister, that’s a compliment!”
Over the Mountains
Of the Moon,
Down the Valley of the Shadow,
Ride, boldly ride,’
The shade replied,-
‘If you seek for Eldorado!’ - Edgar Allen Poe
I like your deconstruction. You can see that the 4th and 5th phrase is like Geralt telling Renfri 'If I wanted you dead, it would be really easy' when he breaks through her guard and chops into her shoulder (Stopping himself from cleaving through her torso).
Pretending to beat people up while reciting lines from Portal 2... Haha
GLaDOS: "We both said a lot of things you're going to regret"
Priceless.!
"Conversations" will now be my default description of sword fights now, all thanks to your term of "phrases". Brilliant.
From a writing standpoint a good fight must be before anything else a clash of ideas so in sense is the physical form of an argument.
I've had some thoughts about this scene, especially with people who analyze this fight as if it's an actual fight, rather then a stage fight. If you look at the way Renfri fighhts, she does things a lot of things that an actual fighter wouldn't do, like passing the dagger behind the back to bring it up the other side. However, I took that sort of thing as them telling us something else about the characters entirely. The mooks have... various degrees of technical ability, but Renfri leads them because she has some amount of mutations of her own. These were something she ended up leaning upon, because most of the time when fighting 'normal' opponents, the ability to move faster then your opponent can react lets you get away with doing things that no normal fighter would. She was ALSO self trained, with no actual instruction in learning how to fight properly. For pretty much all the other times she's fought, she's been able to simply overpower with her abilities and kill them before they could react... and it's made even more effective because her speed lets her take risks that no normal fighter would take.
The problem, though... is that it doesn't work versus Geralt. First of all, he has supernatural abilities on par with hers, and things she does that have killed probably numerous opponents in the past, he manages to stop (like that low dagger to the leg you see him catch). Second of all... Witchers aren't simply the output of the mutation process, but also lots of actual training with their weapons. So not only does he have abilities on par, he's got the train to fight effectively even if he didn't need to use them. These mismatches, as well as the whole idea of Geralt not wanting to kill her unless absolutely necessary, demonstrates why some of the combat seems off when analyzing it as a fight of two fighters trying to kill each other, but at the same time make it absolutely brilliant for the story it's telling us.
As regards the spins, you could argue that it's all due to his Witcher training, with him taking the chance mid combat to survey his surroundings, monsters not generally being capable of complicated tactics. Plus most people wouldn't know enough to push their advantage there, as opposed to duelists who would. Maybe?
Witchers have mutations that make them faster, stronger, more agile than humans, so though it doesn't quite look like it in the Netflix fight scenes, a witcher like Geralt can feasibly pull off flashy moves while fighting to kill and still be effective at using them
Yes. But also, to build inertia for sword to be able to pierce monster's armor.
Ehh, not really. You'd be shocked at how aware you can be in the middle of a fight. You don't generally need to spin around. Also people would totally know to push their advantage. Real, Earnest fights all come down to a few things. Timing, Leverage, and Economy of movement, as well as a few others. The less you have to move to make the block or to stick the other guy, the more you can just, do. In the time it takes for someone to spin 360, your opponent not only has an entirely exposed, risk free, defenseless target presented to them now, but enough time to throw two to three shots before having to block a telegraphed and predictable shot coming at them.
@@locorocky1 you're not wrong ...for regular humans
@@driftingdruid but why bother giving up the advantage of being superhuman just to be flashy?
As someone with both a dance and martial arts background, can confirm that spins (or pirouettes as the books calls them) are purely for aesthetics and 100% communicate to one's partner what one is going to do next (it's actually used as such in some partnered dances). But damn does it look cool to spin while sword fighting
I took some Aikido classes once, and the wife of the sensei, this tiny old Japanese woman, effortlessly guided me through the maneuvers with what felt like just her fingers touching my hand or wrist. It was amazing getting paired up with her, and I know I was better during those brief moments.
The main difference between Geralt stabbing his sword into the ground and Kylo doing the same thing, was Geralt did it to block an attack, while in Kylo's case he stabbed his sword into the ground and the guard deliberately attacked Kylo's saber instead of him. It's not realism that people go for, it's practicality, why that move was used instead of something else.
In fairness, according to Star Wars canon, force sensitive people are adept at anticipating near-future events. So he could have stabbed his saber into the ground *because* he knew the mook was going to swing there and the guy couldn't adjust his OODA loop fast enough to change his planned attack path.
@@improv6132 I've been saying this for years. Force sensitives are precognizant, which means in a duel between two force users, they both spend the majority of the fight making attacks they already know won't land. It's more like a strategy game, where you limit your opponent's options by interrupting his economy and forcing him to react to you, while he's doing the same to you. Eventually, somebody loses concentration, or gets forced into a sequence of exchanges too long to predict. You can afford to leave yourself open when you already know, through space magic, that the opening won't be exploited. You can be mechanically inefficient when your strength, speed, and stamina are magically augmented. You don't have to worry about leverage when your blade can cut at any angle, independent of cutting force. It's not a sword fight, it's a wizard duel played out physically. Technique is less important than staying in the right mental space to draw on the space magic that makes your physical limitations irrelevant.
space magic!!!! Love it!!!@@jackspade5316
"Martial arts background or dance background", made me instantly think of Summer Glau fight scenes in Serenity. Very interesting stuff.
i totally get what you mean when you talk about being partnered with someone more experienced makes your own performance better. im a jazz dancer and went to a salsa dance class. VERY different styles of dancing so i was essentially a nube. and it showed with every person i got paired up with. until i got partnered with someone whos clearly been dancing salsa most of his life and he would lead and instruct me and i looked like i knew what i was doing and i looked good at it. until the next partner and then i sucked again.
I love stunt performers. Very much. So glad you featured them in this discussion.
Why is it that I always find a new youtuber whose content I want to binge until my eyes fall out at 11:30 on a work night?
Applebees is definitely a restaurant and i feel so american for knowing that
As an american, I apologize for Applebee's
@@neoncircus2365 my guy, I've been to Applebee's many times. It's the post-show restaurant of choice for theater kids where I come from. It's also one of those places that, as an adult, I would never go to by choice anymore.
Also, do NOT compare Applebee's to Texas Roadhouse. Roadhouse has significantly better food, better service, and the best rolls and butter you can get.
Mkre accurately, Applebee's is a flavored grease shop.
The point you make at 8:50 onwards is really interesting to me when I think about Martial Arts. We absolutely are not trying to injure each other, but I often found myself getting chosen by the teacher for demonstrations because I was willing to actually *go for him* . Less confident participants were difficult to demonstrate with because you need an active participant in techniques.
Did you see that long ass church fight scene in the Kingsman. Dont think there has been a better fight scene in cinimatic history.
there is only the one church fight scene, and that is in Ladyhawk.
@@susanverberg I cry that I have only one like to give you, but maybe Matthew Broderick and his three friends could stop by with a little help.
I gotta say, I stumbled in through your logical fallacies video, and stayed for everything else. Your whole channel is fantastic.
“Unnecessary mouth noises” is my new favorite description of speech
I love that the stuntman term for the "performers essentially waiving their arms around to look like they're doing something whilst queuing up for their bit in the group fight vs the hero" is Putties. Named after the faceless baddies from power rangers.
Another great video.
What I love about the Witcher is that they have moved beyond the 'bashing of swords' style of action and their cut, thrusts and swings look like they could actually hit the opponent. The opponent's parries and retreats and feints actually protect them or move them out of harms way. I know that camera angles, foreshortening and gimmicked weapons can add a lot to the performer's safety, but the choreography has improved so much, the old fashioned 'clash, clash, clash, thrust' then reverse, with the odd jump and duck style of sword fighting from the old and beloved swashbucklers and knights of the golden age of Hollywood, when seen today, pulls you out of the action faster than the overly obvious product placement shot during the deep and meaningful dialogue scene, later in the movie. We need Hollywood and other film makers to really start to use stunt and action performers to their best ability. Also to let the specialists guide the action rather than a director with very little knowledge in the art dictate a clunky action scene that relies on choppy editing and tight shots to disguise the poor action.
As an aside, as much as I don't really enjoy martial arts films, the fight scenes that Jackie Chan and his team put together are just plain beautiful to watch. The action in the Witcher feels like this.
I practice HEMA, but when I first saw that fight scene, my reaction was really "Damn, this looks amazing. It wouldn't work but it looks great". It shows really well the characters intents.
I still would change one move or two, but I love it anyways.
Just... Please, less spinning. That's all I ask for. Not even no spinning, just less.
The joy of HEMA is that you're benefitting from (and sometimes contributing to) the reconstruction of the work of generations of masters in fighting against other men-at-arms. We can forgive The Witcher as illustrating a character who was taught by only one teacher, who himself might have been the first in his line and thus making things up, who was trained primarily to fight animals and monsters.
@@andrewjohnson6716 The books only shows sword training against other people, but still a good point :)
@@marz6770 I have to admit that I have never read the books. I should get on that!
“Stock and uncommunicative” is the best and most accurate description of Geralt I have ever heard because its absolutely perfect. I adore your videos. Mostly for your humour and how you say things and the fact you make things so entertaining. I love watching all Geralt’s fights because Henry Cavil
The whole idea of "working with people who are more skilled than you makes YOU more skilled" is also very true in music. If you're playing an instrument alongside someone who is more skilled than you, you learn from them and improve. They know how to make you sound good while also teaching you how to actually sound better. Fun stuff 👍
Too true. They can also inspire you to get better. I played 2nd flute in high school and was never quite good enough to make first. But the flute bit in Phantom of the Opera is complicated, hard, fast and seemingly goes on for an eternity. All of us had trouble. So I put in a shit ton of practice and I played it twice as fast as it was meant to go. It took weeks! And then one band session, it came out to be played again.
We were all on a level playing field at first. Then my other two 2nd flute companions fell away. Then one by one the three mains also fell away. And I carried on until the very end of that section, solo. It even got mentioned by our teacher and conductor. When I asked I said that I’d practised every day for weeks and learnt it twice or more as fast as was required. Yes, I missed a ton of notes. But when it slowed down to just crazy fast instead of insane fast, the missing notes weren’t missed and that was how I finished it solo. The other girls were slightly miffed and one said but you’re not supposed to play it faster. I just shrugged. It felt like a massive achievement.
I just realized that the reason I love your channel is that you are so enthusiastic about it. It makes it really fun to listen too.
But if you don't watch more Witcher, you miss out on Jaskier!
You say you're too much of a wuss to watch past episode 1, but I think that's the goriest it ever gets? I don't recall much else. If you mean the monsters ehhh... other than the Striga, nothing is particularly frightening. I say that as someone who loves spooky but is a huge wuss. Maybe find a detailed trigger warning recap? They often explain the specifics of the gore and spook.
if you need trigger warnings then it'd be best not to bother 🙃
@@davewright8206 Okay edgelord.
This was one of those fight scenes that I just wanted to go on forever, the energy was so perfect!!!
As a sword fighting nerd something I can appreciate in many 'fake' looking fights is the idea that they are trying to portray someone who has supernatural fighting skills. Such a person should look unrealistic in action. The trick is without using special effects and wire work not many director/actor teams can pull that off, and so instead they just make the fight unrealistic. I'm having a hard time thinking of an example where they got it right, any ideas anyone: A movie fight that did not use special effects or wire work AND portrayed realistic looking super human skill?
The closest I can think of is actually the Weapon X scene in First Class; I thought they had Wolverin moving at the perfect visual speed to portray he's not breaking the laws of physics fast, but he's phsycially faster on initiative and reactions time than all of the people around him and because of that can't be stopped.
@@williamozier918 You do HEMA? If so what kind?
Any jacky chan film?
@@nateskinner97 intramural foil fencing middle school, high school, and college. Some kendo, alot of goofing around with many swords and weapons. Not an expert, but can hold my own.
@@GundamReviver YES! Excellent example!
Swordfighting: a discussion with pointy words.... and phrases. o___O
1. Given that the Portal series is my favorite ever, I need to see stage combat paired with any of that dialogue.
2. If you haven't seen the Geekenders' Portal 2 the Unauthorized Musical, please go do that, it's worth your time.
It’s so sweet. Christi (from Musical Hell, who I reviewed Portal 2 with) got me onto it and “Poor Unfortunate Subjects” is now stuck in my head again. Ah well 😁
I never really acknowledged how wide Henry Cavill is until seeing him in a cloak
I have a sneaking suspicion that Jill maaaaybe has a crush on Cavill playing Geralt.
In her defense, who doesn't have a crush on Henry Cavill?
@@josephvickrey5396 Hell, I'm straight and I have a crush on Henry Cavill.
@@jsharp3165 dude grimes up good. Henry does nothing for me - I wouldn't turn down a raid with him - but Geralt? I would sheath that sword in a heartbeat.
Just gotta say, don't know why I was sleeping on your vids for so long. They kept coming up in my suggested and I would fall back on something I'd usually watch. I'm 3 min into this one, and now I've got to see as much of your content as I can. Thanks!
Great analysis! (and after absorbing the various videos where you've mentioned Phrasing to us, I have enough inspiration to go rewatch some storyboarded fight choreography I drew back in 2019, solely to see what it said to the audience about my characters. If it says nothing, maybe I need to do some editing.) Thanks again.
I watched a breakdown of this fight by a professional sword fighter dude (I don't know anything about this.) And he said holding the sword backhand is generally a bad idea, but conceded that since Geralt is a Witcher, it's probably a fine stylistic choice.
What a fantastic video, I really enjoyed it. And, in terms of combat scenes, this is kind of the peak for the season so you’ve covered the best one.
The fight was horrible. Geralt didn’t ask anyone to play Gwent.
Looks like you're a Gwent aficionado *Slightly nods head in agreement*
And he didn't say wind's Howling
Bad service
He also didn't fall into a shallow ditch and break his neck. Seriously the worst enemy in the games are shallow depressions . Kill a dragon no problem but watch that first step it's a doozy.
I think I won 1 game of Gwent. Definitely the worst part of that game, for me.
@@erichurst7897 Build a Northern Siege deck, play Vessemir at least 3 times. Never fails me.
I must say my fav oner is Daredevil Season 1 the hallway so freaking good
The prison one? That one is insane. Not a single cut. Some skillful camera work so Charlie Cox and the stunt double can swap out, but still all one camera shot.
Both of these fights were so good. I didn't even notice the Season 3 fight was one take until after it was over it was so intense.
This was such a cool breakdown! It made me want to go re-watch this episode. Your videos have really helped me to appreciate stage combat, it's so cool!
watching your fight scene videos, i'm drawing connections to portrayals of music playing. or i guess lack thereof.
the emotional connection to an actor with their face is also really important in music performance in tv/film. aaaaaand if you don't see an actor's face when someone's playing an instrument, it is also probably an actual musician.
which i understand! music is very emotional! i love seeing the actor's face while they're playing! and sometimes, you need an experienced stuntperson! but sometimes, i question production choices...
you know what would be really interesting to see? a TwoSetViolin x Jill Bearup collaboration with a music-related fight scene. there has to be a movie/show with a scene like that, right? would love to see you guys talk about similarities of your respective disciplines.
I had never heard of TwoSetViolin and I just watched them roast hilariously bad fake violin playing and they are so cute 😁
Probably they’re much too famous to collab with me but I bet it would be FUN 🤩
PLEASE someone make that collab happen
@@JillBearup the only musical fight scene I can thing of off of the top of my head is the one at the end of umbrella academy season 1 but the violin playing isn't meant to be real so I guess that wouldn't work.
No idea how many different analyses of this fight I've watched now but absolutely love this one. Really cool to hear your perspective coming from the stage fight point of view instead of pure historical accuracy which, as you say, is kinda weird for a character who is literally a superhuman mutant. Know it's old now, but thanks for the video!
I remember listening to a podcast years ago on one of the Witcher games. Apparently, the developers brought in trained swordsmen to motion capture as a base for Geralt's fighting style.
Why do I always find super interesting channels I want to binge in the middle of the night, and never at like 6pm when I'm bored?
One thing I found incredibly interesting watching this fight is the way Geralt uses his sword as an extension of his elbow at times.
In martial arts (Or just self defense in general), you're often told to use your elbows when you can as there's less you have to worry about breaking in your elbow than an unpadded fist, it'll hurt a hell of a lot more as it's a smaller contact point, and if you're close enough to go for an elbow strike it's a lot easier to use that outside swinging motion for a proper blow than it is to try to finagle a punch with limited space.
Normal humans probably wouldn't have the strength to hold a sword like that as he does, but being a witcher, he's got no problems with it, not to mention him doing that fucks with a swordsman's muscle memory because he's essentially using 'hand to hand' against a bunch of mooks wielding weapons.
Since I saw this fight I’ve consistently said it is my favorite on screen fight, hands down. Somehow you made me appreciate it even more!
Also big shout out to Tod Cutler (Tod's Workshop) for putting together some really beautiful blades for this show.
I literally just watched the first episode of The Witcher on Sunday and I was immediately head over heels with the fight choreo so I'm DELIGHTED that you have a video about the exact scene I was squealing over. :D :D This is such a great breakdown!
It’s essentially a hallway fight. Like what’s in all of Netflix’s Marvel stuff.
Stage combat is definitely one of the most fun things I've ever done. I'm so glad I found this channel, instant subscribe lol
What I love about this scene is what comes after. Geralt just saved a kid from the evil witch, so he's the town hero now right? Not in The Witcher.
I have only seen three of your videos and I love your channel. It’s great to see a fellow action aficionado discuss some of my favorite action moments, and since your are experienced in stage combat ( and clearly more articulate than I am) this is a blast to watch.
I love the use of Aard in the fight. It stresses how Geralt thinks on his toes and uses what works in the moment. Plus Aard is just so cool.
Ok - you had me at the first malarkey (got a second one tapping out this) - already subscribing - youtube suggested your wedding fight video - will I EVER need these skills - no - joy & pleasure to watch - absolutely! Onto shoes, now - content I never knew that I needed *subscribed* ❤
It's a good thing you fixed your name in the closed captions, otherwise your secret agent alter-ego might have been compromised.
I liked how you mentioned the discontent some people have with this fight because of certain unrealistic parts while focusing on why it’s a good scene overall because of what stage fighting is trying to do. I personally prefer when stage fights are as realistic as possible, but I appreciate hearing about the other side of the coin. It’s important to take reasonable liberties to express the emotion and story taking place more noticeably. Just saw your channel today and I’m liking it. Excellent breakdown of the will/Jack fight from black pearl by the way.
Fun drinking game: Take a shot when Geralt does some form of grimace, as opposed to talking.
Instructions clear. Died from alcohol poisoning.
How the actual hell have I missed your channel. It's a gem. Like ooooh god I love this.
Re: long takes, curious what your thoughts would be on the fights in Atomic Blonde. I loved the fight choreography and how they had Charlize Theron's character getting very creative in order to take down guys much bigger than herself.
Your description of the end of their fight brought tears to my eyes. In a good way of course.
"It's a whole lot easier to be good when your partner is good." Truer words have never been said.
What I like most about this fight scene isn't the choreography, it's the sound effects. Seriously, the ring of those swords clashing is really what made an impression on me, it just sounds so good.
Would clauses be perhaps an equally apt term for the pieces that make up the conversation of the fight?
I like that it all comes back to using the right tool for the job
Everything from fight choreography and filming styles to the range of prop swords 👌🏻 it's just glorious
The Witcher is one of my favorite shows! Can't wait for season 2! Henry Cavill is a boss...
You are so funny and entertaining while making things make so much sense. Thanks as I have watched this multiple time now, and rarely do that.
"Henry Cavil thinks you're awesome and so do I"
Of the short stories in the first two books there were only a few that stood out for me and almost none as much as The Lesser Evil did. Everything about that story set the world, the tone, the mood and the character of Geralt so well. I'm thrilled that the show was able to do justice to Renfri and her tragic tale.
I've actually done something Similar to stage fighting in a PE class (weird school, we made swords in ninth grade)
We had about two months of twice a week classes to practice a sword choreography, but my sword was sharpened so I was only allowed to fight people who weren't afraid to get cut. Anyway my partner and I worked not on an actual choreography but instead each other's body language and general fighting strategy. And since I can't hold back with a sword when the day of preforming came we were actually doing a real fight with actual swords.
I still remember the gasp the crowd let out when after like five very slow choreographed fights, we came up and the sound of sword clattering filled the clearing.
Then one girl who had the most polished and practised choreography got hit in the face.
In ninth grade... :D
What country are you from? That seems like a really fun thing to do and learn, but also pretty irresponsible of the teacher.
@@Evija3000
Weird Waldorf school
They cut alot of the art funding through lately
I'm in that conglomeration of states wearing a trenchcoat pretending to be a country
I love that she played Gwent music as the backing track
This show disappointed me character and plot-wise (and I’m really hoping this will be amended in season 2) but one thing they got sooo so right are the fights
Henry Cavill geeking out, swords, fighting accuracy, and the adults jokes at begining. Gorgeus video
My lord!!!! I LOVE THIS VIDEO!! I saw this fight scene and was sold on the series a more stylised fighting style, this video is just a perfect in-depth look into why it had us all on the edge on our seats it’s like not like pulling back the curtain it’s more like watching and understand how much effort and work went into giving us the audience this feeling and it’s so worth it for the incredible effect it gives
you absolutely know how to tell an entertaining story and i just came to this channel but I am not sad. You have learned to put your humor, personality, experience into telling a story and it is fantastic!
This fight is the reason I continued watching The Witcher and your analysis here put words to why I loved it so much. Thanks!
What a wonderful run-down of this scene!
This got me thinking, I have been a musician and artist for decades. My finger skills and twitch muscles are top notch. So I grabbed a brush and tried improvising what would be a similar routine that Henry would have to do, for that long.
That dude has chops. Yeah, his abs are eye candy, but the guy is a monster. I love your channel, and a yuuge thanks for making this. Long shot action sequences are the bomb.
I don't understand fight choreography or fights or The Witcher but my word do I appreciate hearing you break it down
The ad at the end of this one was a bumper for Special K cereal that just said " Do what's delicious." I felt this was relevant information.
Thanks for posting this. For a long time I've been interested in the behind the scenes work that goes into making movies.
I love your take on this. What a great way to look at the scene and the art behind it. Thank you!
That episode was such a hook, no wonder it was the first one. I'd never read a Witcher book or played a Witcher game, but when I saw Geralt stoicly murdering his way through a bunch of henchmen to get to the crazed woman he was intimate with and convince her to give up revenge, the whole thing came together and I was instantly drawn in.