Is absolutely amazing how undeserving the benefactors of men like this are.. Relegated to the back rooms of history until they die.. Thank you for stories like this that bring the truth forward.. Just wish the "Whittles" of the world were around to see them...
Wow, what a man, what perseverance. Thank you Mr Whittle, and Mr Ohain for your contributionst to our modern world. It's sad what happened in the life of Mr Whittle, but not unexpected. Now we wee the same sort of apathy, atrophy and lack of vision in America which was once vibrant and free. Godspeed Frank!
I had the great pleasure of meeting Sir Frank in the late Seventies when he was working at the Naval Academy. He even gave me a tie clip with his engine on it, which I wore all the time until I lost it. What an interesting man.
As a former Brit, now living in the USA, my mother made a point of telling me that it was a Brit that invented the jet engine first not the Germans or the Americans. It is so unfortunate that the British military, and government, apparently inundated with fools with no vision beyond their noses, ignored his genius over and over until it was almost too late. The story is typical of those that no nothing telling someone that knows everything that there are nine reasons why something wont work and at the same time ignoring the one reason why it will work. At least Franck Whittle was finally given the recognition that he deserved. No wonder he moved to the USA.
Thank you Frank Whittle. I wish you had discovered America earlier and maybe with the blessing of the Crown things would have progressed far faster and happier.
The fate suffered by Sir Frank is common throughout British history. It is very sad to see it happening. Britain and England in particular seem to be led by fools who have no foresight. People who are gifted in in saying ,"you can't do that. It will never work." They are stuck in their old ways of doing things, and are incapable of thinking outside the box. But are quick to condem any new idea should it rock the boat. England did not deserve Sir Frank and all the other inventers it crucified in the past. It is of little consequence or comfort to ring the bells and have great church services in rememberence of great people after they have passed away. Especially as they have been so badly done by during their lives.
My thoughts exactly. Discovered the Jet, look what happened to the genius who actually invented, developed the computer, both geniuses who had the biggest part (Turing and Flowers) were totally dismissed, and God know what else ... sad story
So typical of us brits, our record for inventing is second to none, but our record on monetising those inventions is a lot more sketchy. This situation seems extra sad. We all know the name Frank Whittle now, but I didn’t realise how overlooked at the time
for those claiming germans did it ... Whittle original patent is of a AXIAL flow compressor ... due to avaiable tech they went with a tried & texted oversized centrifugal compressor ... germans persisted on the unreliable axial flow and thus could only get 1h out of an engine
Before I learn about Sir Frank Whittle's story in 2016, I was thinking that these kind of foolishness is happennig only in my country. 😅 Such an incredible man with persistence.
What a shame those heads never approved the jet build prior to full blown WW2 ! I see this and the loss of the Comet years later were a real setback for us Brits at the time
This is different but not unlike the story of another great inventor, Nicola Tesla. Seems when great minds have to contend with small, arrogant minds, the great minds somehow lose only to later make it in history.
Congratulations for your excellent channel and you have right about the British jet engine ! But our hearts belongs to the Roll Royce's engine the amazing Merlin of the Spitfire ! ⚔️ Victory to Allies ⚔️
Amazing how Germany wasn't affiliated with Great Britain during world war 2, the jet engine though share the same propulsion entities, and still on different sides of the table.
The mechanics were well established, but the materials, that was the question. That's where the real engineering begins. Jets spun faster and ran hotter than any other engine ever developed at that point, with the possible exception of rocket engines.
We already had the neccesary alloys in the form of inconel and its derivatives mined and alloyed by ICI in Canada, they needed to be further refined and alloyed though to accept higher sheer strength at the much higher temps involved, the Germans who utilised all Whittles lapsed patents on the jet turbine to construct their own turbojets after the fact did not have access to inconel or its offshoots like molybednum, and sadly for them their engines were just so much scrap after a little more than an hours use, this film really annoyed me in the way they staged it, venerating Whittle as some sort of acclaimed national hero, when the truth is the establishment spent years trying to discredit the man claiming his invention was just cloud cuckoo land, but the man persisted in spite of them, THEN when they discovered the Germans actually had one flying.....jumped all over the jet engine bandwagon and actually compulsarily purchased Whittles own company out from under him for a pittance, then promptly gave it away for free to Rover - who didnt have a bloody clue about even the concept..when THEY cocked it up instead of inviting in Whittle, they gave it to Rolls Royce and Bristol AND after poo pooing him for years then flat out denied Whittle to conduct any further involvement with his OWN brainchild.....THEN shortly after they GAVE IT AWAY to the rest of the world for FREE ! - sending dozens of completed engines to both the Americans AND the Russians with no restrictions or limitations neccesary - just as they did with RADAR ! the rest as they say is history, and how did the Americans and Russians thank us for this gift ? - the Americans demanded we STILL repay them all the wartime loans....and the Russians well......say no more, the MIG 15. came along shortly after this post war pap "pep" film extolling the riches that Britain would get for "her" invention at the beginning of this vid just boiled my blood..............and Sir Frank himself such was his adulation from a gratefull nation only a precious few had even heard of him till the eighties
None of this was an accident Rolls-Royce sabotage every contract Power Jets received. Can you imagine the outcome of the war if the government had offered honest support to whittle. It would have been nipped in the bud.
@@rayceeya8659 you need to take a closer look at the evidence. Rolls-Royce knew for certain that they could not compete. So they made multiple assaults on the company
@@usernamesreprise4068 Yes, what you say is very true as a summation of Whittle's brilliant work. He should have been venerated and given free rein to develop the jet engine. Instead the prize and the riches went elsewhere.
Chris, at least they treated him like royalty and the true genius he was. General electric, the first recipient of his engine and blueprints in 1941, made a promotional video recalling the event: th-cam.com/video/cOzE5GYhaoU/w-d-xo.html
@@Dronescapes true true the British establishment treated him very poorly. They didn’t distinguish themselves either by giving away a jet engine to the Russkies. That engine was reverse engineered and installed in a mig that shut down many American aircraft during the Korean War.
He is not mentioned because his so called ‘jet engine” was a French piston engine, it never flew (despite the false claims, and his subsequent drawings that showed up later were falsified. Coanda was the victim of Romanian propaganda. When you try to attribute the jet engine to Coanda, you actually taint his legit reputation over his real discoveries and real work. You should appreciate his real accomplishments, like the Coanda effect that is still being used today in Formula1, but not what his was probably forced to claim because of Romania’s propaganda machine.
In the first section, that must be Dylan Thomas the poet narrating. Think it must be. One of his jobs during WW2 and just after was with The Crown Film unit, he was involved with the scripts too.
Whittle may have invented designs for axially supercharged jet engines before von Ohain, but that doesn't change the fact that it was Von Ohain who developed axially supercharged the engines for the first Me-262 - the jet fighter actually used against other aircraft. The British Meteor had only centrifugally supercharged engines - Whittle's stopgap, which is no longer used on modern jet engines. The Meteor, which was put into service at about the same time as the Me-262, was also clearly inferior to the Me-262 in terms of performance and the British were only able to use it to intercept V1, but not in air combat against others. The Me-262 achieved an air combat quality factor of 9.1 (even according to American sources), which is higher than the factor of any other aircraft in any war. Even in terms of centrifugally supercharged engines Germany had an earlier fighter than the Meteor: The He-280 flew 2 years before the British plane. If you argument that the “inventor” of a new device was the person who first constructed an theoretical concept of it or a scetch then Germans invented the stealthy flying wing plane (the Go-229 by the Horten Brothers), the space rockets (von Braun) ... and Italian genius Leonardo da Vinci invented the plane itself ... -
Do not forget that Whittle’s engine worked quite well in 1955, in the MiG-15. Also, do not forget that the Me-262 was extremely fragile. Whittle was aware that one solution was easier to develop, but had lower performance. The other difference is that Von Ohain had full support for developing his engine, whereas Whittle struggled to get any support. Had the British government supported Whittle solution in 1930, it is fairly easy to deduct that they would have had a very effective engine by 5he beginning of the war (not a fragile one by the end). Today we all use smart phones, not rotary ones, but I do not think anyone credits Steve Jobs for the invention of the phone, because it is what we use today. As I am sure you know, Von Ohain himself credited Whittle as the inventor in his book, so that should put this to rest.
British upper classes of Society could not understand how a lower class individual could have the intelligence to have the vision to invent the jet engine before its time still occurs all around the World such that inventions end up in USA. Australian Govt. is also a skeptic of our inventors like our Aussie oar boat rowing inventor who ends up selling their evention to USA because they cannot get financial support in their own country is one reason why Australia is in the position we are in today. It is a global problem of upper class not recognizing inventors fron the working class.
If only he made a real engine…unfortunately we can pretend that even Leonardo da Vinci could have made a jet engine, but the first (real) turbojet was Whittle’s, in April 1937, followed a few months later by Von Ohain (depending on the way you look at the fuel used, either September 1937, or March 1939). Everything else is just nice stories, also riddled with false documents, on working engines, semi vacuum cleaners with wings, etc. Probably the only person that truly came close was the Norwegian Elling.
As for the jet engine of today the germans were right in putting their effort into axial flow engines. You can only squeeze so much from a centrifugal compressor. That's why they are not the "jet engine of today". It's not who was first but who was on the right path to where we are today. Axial was the way to go from the beginning.
Evolution is only natural in all things. Today you use a cell phone without a rotary dial, or a physical keyboard. Whittle was very well aware of variants, but his goal was to build an reliable engine.Axial flow engines at the time were extremely unreliable, as you,know and therefore really useless for the war. 25 years after his invention, Whittle engine was fitted in the exceptional and feared MiG-15. That was proof that it would have been the right solution, in the right place, at the right time, had they supported it.
Who was on the right path would have been Whittle because the vast majority of the engines of today are bypass engines and the first patent for a bypass engine was Whittle's patent of 1936. Also on the right path would be the RAE wit Griffith and Constant who began research into axial flow engines in 1927 and ran the B10 engine in 1940 and the F2 in 1941.
Whittle was perfectly familiar with the axial flow principle, the first British axial flow Metrovic engines were being evaluated at the time the Meteor jets were entering service. The centrifugal compressor engines were sturdy, reliable and powerful and were obviously the best choice for initial jet engine development, they were enthusiastically accepted by American manufacturers and the first American jet prototypes even flew on imported engines. Nobody post war succeeded in developing the nazi jet engines. The US Navy and the Soviets were both using centrifugal flow RR Nene derivatives in the Korean War Grumman Panther and MiG 15, they were far more powerful than the later North American F-86's axial flow J47 engine. Centrifugal compressors have some real engineering advantages which is why real world designers use them in modern Turboprop, Helicopter Turboshaft, Auxillary Power Unit and Surface Gas Turbine engines.
the biggest reason german engines were utter crap was the axial flow compressor ... technologynwasnt there yet wittle used the same compressor as all stubo/supercharers on those high powered piston engines .. lot more reliable
@@smparreira it's a question of scale people had experience with much larger stationary systems that misled them. And no one alive had the mathematical insight of Whittle. A fact that Rolls-Royce continue to prove for the next 20 years.
So for the Messerschmitt 262 pick the hardest to develop axial flow compressor type, Heinkel having inexplicably failed with their centrifugal compressor engine. Heinkel’s alternative 280 fighter had a modern layout forward placed cockpit and nosewheel tricycle undercarriage both absent in the prototype 262. The 262 engine fell to bits at 30 hours. Wëhräböös don’t cover this much.
Whittle invented, patented (1930), and tested (on the ground in 1937) the first jet engine. Germany flew the first aircraft in 1939, and it took a few more years for Von Ohain's engine to be developed.In retrospect, it was quite unreliable and ineffective.
@@mikefallwell1301 It was way worse that the British government did not support or develop his brilliant invention. After all Rolls Royce gifted the engine to the Soviets and in 1955 it flew in the MiG-15 contributing in making it an exceptional aircraft. Whittle's engine would have been ready by the beginning of the war, instead he struggled to even get funding for it. Still it was tested sometime before the German aircraft even flew. It is a sad story. He was truly recognized only after the Americans highlighted his brilliance.
Bruno, if you are making fun of Whittle, then you seriously need to study (a lot) of history. Unfortunately it is impossible to figure out what your comment is confusingly trying to convey, but just in case I am happy to provide you with a timeline for beginners 😉 Remember that this is referring to the invention of the turbojet! A SIMPLIFIED CHRONOLOGY OF THE TURBOJET: 1929 Britain: Frank Whittle tenders his turbojet proposal to the Air Ministry. The Ministry asked Dr Arnold Griffith at the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) to make an assessment. Griffith advises his mentors that the proposal has little merit. It is rejected without further research and not placed on the Secret List. 1930 Britain: January. Whittle makes a successful application to patent his turbojet. (The Air Ministry are advised of this but again fail to apply secrecy.) 1931 Britain: April. The turbojet patent is published and thereafter becomes available to all interested parties from the National Stationary Office. Germany: copies of the British turbojet patent are purchased by the German Trade Commission in London and distributed amongst German aeronautical research establishments as well as aero-engine and airframe manufacturers. 1933 Sweden: Lysholm’s proposal for a turbojet at the Milo Company (date unconfirmed). 1935 Britain: Whittle is encouraged by his friends, Williams and Tinling, to join them in a private venture to develop the jet engine. Germany: Dr. Herbert Wagner initiates research at the Junkers Flugzeugwerke (JFA) to assess the gas turbine for shaft or jet power. (Focussing on the use of the axial compressor.) At the Aeronautical Research Division (AVA) at Göttingen, Dr. Hans von Ohain conceives a unique form of gas turbine and plans to apply this to aeronautics as a jet engine. 1936 Britain: Power Jets Ltd is formed. Turbojet development begins. Whittle patents his proposals for turbofan (high-bypass) turbojets and the use of reheat for thrust augmentation. Following (and as a result of) the establishment of Power Jets, the RAE is directed to re-activate aeronautical gas turbine research (dropped in 1930) as a means to develop shaft horsepower - focussing on the axial compressor. Germany: Secret development of the Wagner turbojet begins at JFA. Secret development of the Ohain turbojet begins at Ernst Heinkel AG (HAG). 1937 Britain: April. Using diesel oil, the Whittle Unit (WU) is run for the first time at Power Jets. Germany: September. Fuelled by Hydrogen, a sheet-metal experimental model of the Ohain unit is run for the first time at HAG. Herman Oestrich considering turbojet designs at Siemens (date unconfirmed) Russia: Lyul’ka’s proposal for a turbojet (date unconfirmed) 1938 Germany: March (unconfirmed). The Ohain engine is first run using liquid fuel. Unaware of the jet project at HAG (but probably aware of the JFA project) the Air Ministry (RLM) encourages engine manufacturers to develop the turbojet. (The axial compressor is specified.) Bramo, BMW & and (later) Daimler Benz took up turbojet research and development. 1939 Britain: June. The Air Ministry finally recognized the potential of the turbojet and began funding the development of Power Jets. The RAE abandons turbo-shaft research in favor of the turbojet. Germany: Under Anselm Franz, Junkers Motorenwerke (Jumo) assumes the development of the turbojet in place of JFA. The Wagner team (led by Max Müller) migrated to HAG to continue with their project there. August/November. First flight of a jet-powered airplane: The Heinkel He.178, powered by the Ohain unit achieves two six-minute flights - the first in August, the second in November. 1941 Britain: May. The Gloster E28/39, powered by the Whittle (W1) engine, begins a series of flight trials - accumulating 25 hours of bench tests followed by 10 hours of in-flight use before a check of the engine was undertaken. USA: Nathan Price’s proposal for a turbojet at Lockheed (date unconfirmed). Britain / USA: The British agreed to share their turbojet technology with the Americans. October. The W1 and design details of the W2 arrive in the USA. Germany: HAG abandons further development of the Ohain unit (date unconfirmed) 1942 USA: March. GE testing their AI turbojet. October. Flight testing of the twin-jet Bell XP-59A begins. 1943 Britain & Germany: flight-testing their first jet fighters (Gloster Meteor & Messerschmitt 262) Japan: turbojet proposal by Tanegashima and Nagano (date unconfirmed) 1944 Britain: January. Power Jets nationalised. Subsequent Government withdrawal of all support for Whittle’s axial front-fan development (LR1) and his centrifugal W2/700 engine with aft-fan and reheat. July. The Meteor jet fighter becomes operational. (Deployed against the V1 pulsejet-powered flying bomb.) Germany: October. The Me.262 became operational against Allied bomber forces. 1944/45 Britain / USA: Rolls-Royce shares further turbojet technology with the USA. (Both countries developing centrifugal and axial turbojets.) 1945 Europe / USSR / USA: appropriation of German turbojet technology following the end of the war in Europe. No significant advantages were discovered over existing British and American technology in this field. However, the French elected to adopt the BMW turbojet for further development and as a foundation for their aero-gas turbine industry. The USSR initially adopted the Jumo 004 for further development. 1947 Britain / USSR: Rolls-Royce sold their most advanced operational turbojets to the USSR. The technology migrates in turn to Eastern Europe and China. the Nene/Rolls Royce/Whittle-derived centrifugal turbojet engine powers the MiG 15 after the Soviets discarded the over-engineered, unreliable, and short-lived German engines. The MiG 15 proved to be a formidable opponent during the Korean War.
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Is absolutely amazing how undeserving the benefactors of men like this are.. Relegated to the back rooms of history until they die.. Thank you for stories like this that bring the truth forward.. Just wish the "Whittles" of the world were around to see them...
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Wow, what a man, what perseverance. Thank you Mr Whittle, and Mr Ohain for your contributionst to our modern world. It's sad what happened in the life of Mr Whittle, but not unexpected. Now we wee the same sort of apathy, atrophy and lack of vision in America which was once vibrant and free. Godspeed Frank!
I had the great pleasure of meeting Sir Frank in the late Seventies when he was working at the Naval Academy. He even gave me a tie clip with his engine on it, which I wore all the time until I lost it. What an interesting man.
As a former Brit, now living in the USA, my mother made a point of telling me that it was a Brit that invented the jet engine first not the Germans or the Americans. It is so unfortunate that the British military, and government, apparently inundated with fools with no vision beyond their noses, ignored his genius over and over until it was almost too late. The story is typical of those that no nothing telling someone that knows everything that there are nine reasons why something wont work and at the same time ignoring the one reason why it will work.
At least Franck Whittle was finally given the recognition that he deserved. No wonder he moved to the USA.
Thank you Frank Whittle.
I wish you had discovered America earlier and maybe with the blessing of the Crown things would have progressed far faster and happier.
Well said
I wouldnt have served him any good since by that time America gov. had just finishing being the exact same bunch of negationists
The fate suffered by Sir Frank is common throughout British history. It is very sad to see it happening. Britain and England in particular seem to be led by fools who have no foresight. People who are gifted in in saying ,"you can't do that. It will never work." They are stuck in their old ways of doing things, and are incapable of thinking outside the box. But are quick to condem any new idea should it rock the boat.
England did not deserve Sir Frank and all the other inventers it crucified in the past.
It is of little consequence or comfort to ring the bells and have great church services in rememberence of great people after they have passed away. Especially as they have been so badly done by during their lives.
👍👍
My thoughts exactly. Discovered the Jet, look what happened to the genius who actually invented, developed the computer, both geniuses who had the biggest part (Turing and Flowers) were totally dismissed, and God know what else ... sad story
I agree.....that pondlife have a lot to answer for...
Beautiful documentary. Thank you. Greetings from South Africa
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Great men held back by small minds.
There's that spark that's so rare and only shows in these geniuses like this great engineer or Nicholas Tesla...
Well said!
So typical of us brits, our record for inventing is second to none, but our record on monetising those inventions is a lot more sketchy. This situation seems extra sad. We all know the name Frank Whittle now, but I didn’t realise how overlooked at the time
Tooting of ones own horn is another British talent😅
@@AB-kg6rk only succeeded by the usa
for those claiming germans did it ... Whittle original patent is of a AXIAL flow compressor ... due to avaiable tech they went with a tried & texted oversized centrifugal compressor ... germans persisted on the unreliable axial flow and thus could only get 1h out of an engine
👍precisely
Before I learn about Sir Frank Whittle's story in 2016, I was thinking that these kind of foolishness is happennig only in my country. 😅 Such an incredible man with persistence.
What a shame those heads never approved the jet build prior to full blown WW2 ! I see this and the loss of the Comet years later were a real setback for us Brits at the time
This is different but not unlike the story of another great inventor, Nicola Tesla. Seems when great minds have to contend with small, arrogant minds, the great minds somehow lose only to later make it in history.
Congratulations for your excellent channel and you have right about the British jet engine ! But our hearts belongs to the Roll Royce's engine the amazing Merlin of the Spitfire ! ⚔️ Victory to Allies ⚔️
Interestingly Rolls Royce took over Whittle’s engine (Nene)
Amazing how Germany wasn't affiliated with Great Britain during world war 2, the jet engine though share the same propulsion entities, and still on different sides of the table.
German spies were in all levels of everything to do with anything
Spais
@@aaronbollinger5642 drive on the left hand side. Look down at the shifter, see Roman Numerics.
@@colonelkernal297 Hello 👋
prior to WW2 both industrial circles shared info ... wittle patents & papers were published in german scolar journals
The De Havilland Vampire, in terms of beauty is like the E Type Jag of the sky.
You ae right, the Vampire is quite beautiful
thanks
The mechanics were well established, but the materials, that was the question. That's where the real engineering begins. Jets spun faster and ran hotter than any other engine ever developed at that point, with the possible exception of rocket engines.
We already had the neccesary alloys in the form of inconel and its derivatives mined and alloyed by ICI in Canada, they needed to be further refined and alloyed though to accept higher sheer strength at the much higher temps involved, the Germans who utilised all Whittles lapsed patents on the jet turbine to construct their own turbojets after the fact did not have access to inconel or its offshoots like molybednum, and sadly for them their engines were just so much scrap after a little more than an hours use,
this film really annoyed me in the way they staged it, venerating Whittle as some sort of acclaimed national hero, when the truth is the establishment spent years trying to discredit the man claiming his invention was just cloud cuckoo land, but the man persisted in spite of them, THEN when they discovered the Germans actually had one flying.....jumped all over the jet engine bandwagon and actually compulsarily purchased Whittles own company out from under him for a pittance, then promptly gave it away for free to Rover - who didnt have a bloody clue about even the concept..when THEY cocked it up instead of inviting in Whittle, they gave it to Rolls Royce and Bristol AND after poo pooing him for years then flat out denied Whittle to conduct any further involvement with his OWN brainchild.....THEN shortly after they GAVE IT AWAY to the rest of the world for FREE ! - sending dozens of completed engines to both the Americans AND the Russians with no restrictions or limitations neccesary - just as they did with RADAR ! the rest as they say is history, and how did the Americans and Russians thank us for this gift ? - the Americans demanded we STILL repay them all the wartime loans....and the Russians well......say no more, the MIG 15. came along shortly after
this post war pap "pep" film extolling the riches that Britain would get for "her" invention at the beginning of this vid just boiled my blood..............and Sir Frank himself such was his adulation from a gratefull nation only a precious few had even heard of him till the eighties
None of this was an accident Rolls-Royce sabotage every contract Power Jets received. Can you imagine the outcome of the war if the government had offered honest support to whittle. It would have been nipped in the bud.
@@mikefallwell1301 I can't blame the Brits for being cautious. It was a completely new type of engine.
@@rayceeya8659 you need to take a closer look at the evidence. Rolls-Royce knew for certain that they could not compete. So they made multiple assaults on the company
@@usernamesreprise4068 Yes, what you say is very true as a summation of Whittle's brilliant work. He should have been venerated and given free rein to develop the jet engine. Instead the prize and the riches went elsewhere.
The Crown Jewels of British aviation, given away to the Americans
Chris, at least they treated him like royalty and the true genius he was. General electric, the first recipient of his engine and blueprints in 1941, made a promotional video recalling the event: th-cam.com/video/cOzE5GYhaoU/w-d-xo.html
@@Dronescapes true true the British establishment treated him very poorly. They didn’t distinguish themselves either by giving away a jet engine to the Russkies. That engine was reverse engineered and installed in a mig that shut down many American aircraft during the Korean War.
It would have been nice to mention Henri Coanda, the most forgotten pioneer.
He is not mentioned because his so called ‘jet engine” was a French piston engine, it never flew (despite the false claims, and his subsequent drawings that showed up later were falsified. Coanda was the victim of Romanian propaganda. When you try to attribute the jet engine to Coanda, you actually taint his legit reputation over his real discoveries and real work. You should appreciate his real accomplishments, like the Coanda effect that is still being used today in Formula1, but not what his was probably forced to claim because of Romania’s propaganda machine.
its not who invents that gets the credit ,it goes to who steals it[THE GOV]
Then Britain sold the jet engine to Russia, who used it to build the Mig15
Amazing how many Englishmen doubt the jet engines
In the first section, that must be Dylan Thomas the poet narrating. Think it must be. One of his jobs during WW2 and just after was with The Crown Film unit, he was involved with the scripts too.
Whittle may have invented designs for axially supercharged jet engines before von Ohain, but that doesn't change the fact that it was Von Ohain who developed axially supercharged the engines for the first Me-262 - the jet fighter actually used against other aircraft.
The British Meteor had only centrifugally supercharged engines - Whittle's stopgap, which is no longer used on modern jet engines. The Meteor, which was put into service at about the same time as the Me-262, was also clearly inferior to the Me-262 in terms of performance and the British were only able to use it to intercept V1, but not in air combat against others. The Me-262 achieved an air combat quality factor of 9.1 (even according to American sources), which is higher than the factor of any other aircraft in any war.
Even in terms of centrifugally supercharged engines Germany had an earlier fighter than the Meteor: The He-280 flew 2 years before the British plane.
If you argument that the “inventor” of a new device was the person who first constructed an theoretical concept of it or a scetch then Germans invented the stealthy flying wing plane (the Go-229 by the Horten Brothers), the space rockets (von Braun) ... and Italian genius Leonardo da Vinci invented the plane itself ... -
Do not forget that Whittle’s engine worked quite well in 1955, in the MiG-15. Also, do not forget that the Me-262 was extremely fragile. Whittle was aware that one solution was easier to develop, but had lower performance. The other difference is that Von Ohain had full support for developing his engine, whereas Whittle struggled to get any support. Had the British government supported Whittle solution in 1930, it is fairly easy to deduct that they would have had a very effective engine by 5he beginning of the war (not a fragile one by the end). Today we all use smart phones, not rotary ones, but I do not think anyone credits Steve Jobs for the invention of the phone, because it is what we use today. As I am sure you know, Von Ohain himself credited Whittle as the inventor in his book, so that should put this to rest.
British upper classes of Society could not understand how a lower class individual could have the intelligence to have the vision to invent the jet engine before its time still occurs all around the World such that inventions end up in USA. Australian Govt. is also a skeptic of our inventors like our Aussie oar boat rowing inventor who ends up selling their evention to USA because they cannot get financial support in their own country is one reason why Australia is in the position we are in today. It is a global problem of upper class not recognizing inventors fron the working class.
Absolute rubbish.
Maxime Guillaume, was without a doubt the Inventor of the jet engine 😂
If only he made a real engine…unfortunately we can pretend that even Leonardo da Vinci could have made a jet engine, but the first (real) turbojet was Whittle’s, in April 1937, followed a few months later by Von Ohain (depending on the way you look at the fuel used, either September 1937, or March 1939).
Everything else is just nice stories, also riddled with false documents, on working engines, semi vacuum cleaners with wings, etc. Probably the only person that truly came close was the Norwegian Elling.
As for the jet engine of today the germans were right in putting their effort into axial flow engines. You can only squeeze so much from a centrifugal compressor. That's why they are not the "jet engine of today". It's not who was first but who was on the right path to where we are today. Axial was the way to go from the beginning.
Evolution is only natural in all things. Today you use a cell phone without a rotary dial, or a physical keyboard. Whittle was very well aware of variants, but his goal was to build an reliable engine.Axial flow engines at the time were extremely unreliable, as you,know and therefore really useless for the war. 25 years after his invention, Whittle engine was fitted in the exceptional and feared MiG-15. That was proof that it would have been the right solution, in the right place, at the right time, had they supported it.
@@Dronescapes and the right time was the Battle of Britain.
investing in unreliable axial flow cost germany the war ... so ... no
Who was on the right path would have been Whittle because the vast majority of the engines of today are bypass engines and the first patent for a bypass engine was Whittle's patent of 1936.
Also on the right path would be the RAE wit Griffith and Constant who began research into axial flow engines in 1927 and ran the B10 engine in 1940 and the F2 in 1941.
most of the engines used today are closer to the jumo design than the whittle designe... would say it's more thanks to the germans than the british.
Whittle was perfectly familiar with the axial flow principle, the first British axial flow Metrovic engines were being evaluated at the time the Meteor jets were entering service. The centrifugal compressor engines were sturdy, reliable and powerful and were obviously the best choice for initial jet engine development, they were enthusiastically accepted by American manufacturers and the first American jet prototypes even flew on imported engines.
Nobody post war succeeded in developing the nazi jet engines.
The US Navy and the Soviets were both using centrifugal flow RR Nene derivatives in the Korean War Grumman Panther and MiG 15, they were far more powerful than the later North American F-86's axial flow J47 engine.
Centrifugal compressors have some real engineering advantages which is why real world designers use them in modern Turboprop, Helicopter Turboshaft, Auxillary Power Unit and Surface Gas Turbine engines.
@@givenfirstnamefamilyfirstn3935 thank you for your comments they are always educational and I am an aircraft designer
the biggest reason german engines were utter crap was the axial flow compressor ... technologynwasnt there yet
wittle used the same compressor as all stubo/supercharers on those high powered piston engines .. lot more reliable
Whittle original patent is of a AXIAL flow compresso
@@smparreira it's a question of scale people had experience with much larger stationary systems that misled them. And no one alive had the mathematical insight of Whittle. A fact that Rolls-Royce continue to prove for the next 20 years.
What about me 262🤔
So for the Messerschmitt 262 pick the hardest to develop axial flow compressor type, Heinkel having inexplicably failed with their centrifugal compressor engine. Heinkel’s alternative 280 fighter had a modern layout forward placed cockpit and nosewheel tricycle undercarriage both absent in the prototype 262.
The 262 engine fell to bits at 30 hours. Wëhräböös don’t cover this much.
Whittle invented, patented (1930), and tested (on the ground in 1937) the first jet engine. Germany flew the first aircraft in 1939, and it took a few more years for Von Ohain's engine to be developed.In retrospect, it was quite unreliable and ineffective.
This is why patents are not worth the paper they're written on.
@@mikefallwell1301 It was way worse that the British government did not support or develop his brilliant invention. After all Rolls Royce gifted the engine to the Soviets and in 1955 it flew in the MiG-15 contributing in making it an exceptional aircraft. Whittle's engine would have been ready by the beginning of the war, instead he struggled to even get funding for it. Still it was tested sometime before the German aircraft even flew. It is a sad story. He was truly recognized only after the Americans highlighted his brilliance.
@@Dronescapes just the British public school system in all its Glory
Salutations
What is the meaning of a self driving car?
It's for people who DON'T want to drive, but don't want to travel by bus or train.
@@Otokichi786
I understand that. If it is involved in an accident who is to blame .
not that much us brits didnt give the modern civilised world is there
10:14 uhh what did I miss
I wish I had that brain 🧠
🙂👍
Please don’t do a clip of this fancy new jet and show a p 38 flying by.. get your facts right.. this is a doc not a cartoon
Rolls Royce WERE FCUKN CNUTS!!
XD
First 😁
Yes you are!
👳🏽♀️ or turbine? 😂
Ok 😂 and Robert Falcon Scott was the first to conquer the South Pole.
Bruno, if you are making fun of Whittle, then you seriously need to study (a lot) of history.
Unfortunately it is impossible to figure out what your comment is confusingly trying to convey, but just in case I am happy to provide you with a timeline for beginners 😉
Remember that this is referring to the invention of the turbojet!
A SIMPLIFIED CHRONOLOGY OF THE TURBOJET:
1929
Britain: Frank Whittle tenders his turbojet proposal to the Air Ministry.
The Ministry asked Dr Arnold Griffith at the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) to make an assessment.
Griffith advises his mentors that the proposal has little merit. It is rejected without further research and not placed on the Secret List.
1930
Britain: January. Whittle makes a successful application to patent his turbojet. (The Air Ministry are advised of this but again fail to apply secrecy.)
1931
Britain: April. The turbojet patent is published and thereafter becomes available to all interested parties from the National Stationary Office.
Germany: copies of the British turbojet patent are purchased by the German Trade Commission in London and distributed amongst German aeronautical research establishments as well as aero-engine and airframe manufacturers.
1933
Sweden: Lysholm’s proposal for a turbojet at the Milo Company (date unconfirmed).
1935
Britain: Whittle is encouraged by his friends, Williams and Tinling, to join them in a private venture to develop the jet engine.
Germany: Dr. Herbert Wagner initiates research at the Junkers Flugzeugwerke (JFA) to assess the gas turbine for shaft or jet power. (Focussing on the use of the axial compressor.)
At the Aeronautical Research Division (AVA) at Göttingen, Dr. Hans von Ohain conceives a unique form of gas turbine and plans to apply this to aeronautics as a jet engine.
1936
Britain: Power Jets Ltd is formed. Turbojet development begins.
Whittle patents his proposals for turbofan (high-bypass) turbojets and the use of reheat for thrust augmentation.
Following (and as a result of) the establishment of Power Jets, the RAE is directed to re-activate aeronautical gas turbine research (dropped in 1930) as a means to develop shaft horsepower - focussing on the axial compressor.
Germany: Secret development of the Wagner turbojet begins at JFA.
Secret development of the Ohain turbojet begins at Ernst Heinkel AG (HAG).
1937
Britain: April. Using diesel oil, the Whittle Unit (WU) is run for the first time at Power Jets.
Germany: September. Fuelled by Hydrogen, a sheet-metal experimental model of the Ohain unit is run for the first time at HAG.
Herman Oestrich considering turbojet designs at Siemens (date unconfirmed)
Russia: Lyul’ka’s proposal for a turbojet (date unconfirmed)
1938
Germany: March (unconfirmed). The Ohain engine is first run using liquid fuel.
Unaware of the jet project at HAG (but probably aware of the JFA project) the Air Ministry (RLM) encourages engine manufacturers to develop the turbojet. (The axial compressor is specified.)
Bramo, BMW & and (later) Daimler Benz took up turbojet research and development.
1939
Britain: June. The Air Ministry finally recognized the potential of the turbojet and began funding the development of Power Jets. The RAE abandons turbo-shaft research in favor of the turbojet.
Germany: Under Anselm Franz, Junkers Motorenwerke (Jumo) assumes the development of the turbojet in place of JFA. The Wagner team (led by Max Müller) migrated to HAG to continue with their project there.
August/November. First flight of a jet-powered airplane: The Heinkel He.178, powered by the Ohain unit achieves two six-minute flights - the first in August, the second in November.
1941
Britain: May. The Gloster E28/39, powered by the Whittle (W1) engine, begins a series of flight trials - accumulating 25 hours of bench tests followed by 10 hours of in-flight use before a check of the engine was undertaken.
USA: Nathan Price’s proposal for a turbojet at Lockheed (date unconfirmed).
Britain / USA: The British agreed to share their turbojet technology with the Americans.
October. The W1 and design details of the W2 arrive in the USA.
Germany: HAG abandons further development of the Ohain unit (date unconfirmed)
1942
USA: March. GE testing their AI turbojet.
October. Flight testing of the twin-jet Bell XP-59A begins.
1943
Britain & Germany: flight-testing their first jet fighters (Gloster Meteor & Messerschmitt 262)
Japan: turbojet proposal by Tanegashima and Nagano (date unconfirmed)
1944
Britain: January. Power Jets nationalised. Subsequent Government withdrawal of all support for Whittle’s axial front-fan development (LR1) and his centrifugal W2/700 engine with aft-fan and reheat.
July. The Meteor jet fighter becomes operational. (Deployed against the V1 pulsejet-powered flying bomb.)
Germany: October. The Me.262 became operational against Allied bomber forces.
1944/45
Britain / USA: Rolls-Royce shares further turbojet technology with the USA. (Both countries developing centrifugal and axial turbojets.)
1945
Europe / USSR / USA: appropriation of German turbojet technology following the end of the war in Europe. No significant advantages were discovered over existing British and American technology in this field. However, the French elected to adopt the BMW turbojet for further development and as a foundation for their aero-gas turbine industry. The USSR initially adopted the Jumo 004 for further development.
1947
Britain / USSR: Rolls-Royce sold their most advanced operational turbojets to the USSR. The technology migrates in turn to Eastern Europe and China. the Nene/Rolls Royce/Whittle-derived centrifugal turbojet engine powers the MiG 15 after the Soviets discarded the over-engineered, unreliable, and short-lived German engines. The MiG 15 proved to be a formidable opponent during the Korean War.
Thanks nazis!
Actually Whittle’s jet engine was developed (and patented) years before the German one
What has the Nazi Party to do with jet engines?