The Development of French Interwar Bombers Pt 1 - When Greenhouses Go To War
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 มิ.ย. 2024
- Today we're exploring the development of French bombing aircraft in the interwar period.
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Recommended reading:
French Bombers of WWII by Jose Fernandez - amzn.to/3RNiAwl
The Rise and Fall of the French Air Force by Greg Baughen - amzn.to/3toeWQh
French Aircraft of the First World War by James Davilla and Arthur Soltan - amzn.to/482YUdL
French Aircraft From 1939 to 1942 Vol 1 & 2 by Dominique Breffort & Andre Jouinau - amzn.to/3Ty9QM8 & amzn.to/3Twva4l
Les Avions Potez by Jean Louis Coroller and Michel Ledet - amzn.to/3v80mNp
Les Avions Breguet Vol.1 and Vol.2 by Henri Lacaze- amzn.to/4778CKS
Les Avions Farman by Jean Liron - www.amazon.fr/Avions-Farman-L...
Les Avions Bernard by Jean Liron - amzn.to/48q7mU0
The Command of the Air by Giulio Douhet - amzn.to/472zfjX
Guerra agli inermi ed Aviazione d'assalto (War on the defenseless and assault aviation) by Amedeo Mecozzi - www.amazon.it/Guerra-agli-ine...
Published Journal Articles
The Strategic Dream: French Air Doctrine in the Inter-War Period, 1919-39 by Robert J. Young (www.jstor.org/stable/260291 )
Douhet's Antagonist: Amedeo Mecozzi (www.jstor.org/stable/26276033... )
0:00 Intro
1:28 A brief summary of French Bomber development
7:08 French Bombers in WWI
13:09 WWI French Bombing Doctrine
18:53 Interwar bombers - Farman Goliath
27:49 Latécoère 6
30:47 Dyle et Bacalan DB-10
34:12 The Tactical Bombers - Breguet 19
39:18 Potez 25
41:55 A Shift In Aerial Doctrine
44:26 Lioré et Olivier LeO 20
49:15 Yet Another Shift In Aerial Doctrine
59:12 The "Battle-Combat-Reconnaissance Plane" Obsession Begins
01:03:16 Blériot 127
01:06:38 Blériot 137
01:08:20 SPCA 30
01:12:09 Bréguet 410
01:15:43 Amiot 140 / Amiot 143
01:22:05 "Heavy" Bombers - SAB AB.20/21
01:25:41 Bernard 82 "Repraisal Bomber"
01:28:22 Farman F.220 / F.222 etc
01:32:49 Bloch MB.200 Medium Bomber
01:37:15 Closing Remarks and Source Material - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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F.A.Q Section - Ask your questions here :)
Q: Do you take aircraft requests?
A: I have a list of aircraft I plan to cover, but feel free to add to it with suggestions:)
Q: How do you decide what aircraft gets covered next?
A: Supporters over on Patreon now get to vote on upcoming topics such as overviews, special videos, and deep dives.
Q: Why do you use imperial measurements for some videos, and metric for others?
A: I do this based on country of manufacture. Imperial measurements for Britain and the U.S, metric for the rest of the world, but I include text in my videos that convert it for both.
Could you maybe do a video on all or most World War 1 monoplanes?
I would like a detailed video on Caproni aircraft, specifically the Caproni Ca.36. I've researched it a lot on my own time but I lack experience looking through archives and lack specific books. Because of this I can't find any photos on the instruments for The Ca. 36, meaning that a project of mine is incomplete until I can find a reliable source for them. Hopefully you can help when you have time.
The Macchi M.5 Definitely needs it's own video. You could also mention that It has a scene in the movie Porco Rosso.
23:52 I assume the drawings are not French as the dimensions are in feet and inches.
Instead of aircraft why not aero engines. Especially the early types.
I love the Drach reference, to French pre Dreadnoughts. When hotels go to war.
👍
It was the inspiration for the title, and he approved of the idea 😂
@RexsHangar no wonder,
you have common viewership, I'm surely not the only one.
Great content as always from you.
This just reinforces my opinion of Rex being the Drach of floaty in the air things, and Drach being the Rex of floaty in the water things.
Beat me to it, Marcus ))
That was the first drach vid I ever watched.
The French truly have a unique take on ‘offensive’ designs.
Offensive in looks only 😂
It offends my sense of Aerodynamics …
Amen.
Their take on pre-dreadnought battleships is equally nuts. Drach has described them as "hotels" - awful, weird shapes.
I feel the french consider just how "french" a design feels, and if it isn't offensive to the eyes enough, then it's back to the cheese cutting board.
Saw someone else make a spot on comment. The french designs make the entire roster of Blohm & Voss stuff look normal and aerodynamically sound - and that's truly a feat
Many of these designs could be replicated with Lego using only basic (no curved) pieces.
@@MonkeyJedi99
If any scale models of these exist it is likely they are only available from the Polish card model publishers. Many of which are quite amazing.
Bleriot: We need a wind tunnel to test our designs.
French Air Ministry: Best I can do is a box fan and a culvert.
@@SwingNeil But if you want a higher speed then wait for the Mistral.
Visually distressing is a very polite way of saying “ they are hard to look at.”
It’s a loveable ugliness though
I think they look cool in their own ugly way
Following the analogue with the French Predreads. "How can these visual crimes against humanity fly?" My question "How can those land? The earth rejects them".
The DB-10 didn't have its defensive guns in the nose; they were in the *conning tower* quite clearly.
Amazing! Many thanks for this vud.
Thanks for delving into these exquisitely fascinating old machines. They look as though they were created by Studio Ghibli.
Hayao Miyazaki is a huge aviation buff, he HAS been taking notes. See Nausicaä and Porco Rosso, every aircraft featured in those has been based on something real.
@@jon-paulfilkins7820 Except for the aviform ornithopter planes, right? :)
@@MM22966 Well, someone (and I think it was someone French) did try to make an ornithopter at the time, but generally if it has propellers and is in a Miyazak film, it is probably based on something real.
@jon-paulfilkins7820 en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ornithopter generally its only been last 40 years successfully flying ornithopter designs have been a thing, but the French did have a decently successful research project during the Interwar years focused on them
What is it with the French? First you have hotel battleships, now you have greenhouse bombers.
Look it's just a French thing, OK? Somethings are better not asked.
You forgot the village tank: the Char 2C
Observation is what we do. We look in windows as well as out.
The French copy no one, and no one copies the French.
And Char B1 tank, which hull mounted 75mm gun did not have horizontal traverse. Driver was demanded to lay the freaking gun while as side job drive nearly 30 ton tank. French do everything opposite of rest of world.
You know, I'm learning French on duolingo, and just finished French numerals. And somehow I think their bomber designs came from the same line of thought that pronounces 77 as "sixty seventeen" or 94 as "four-twenty fourteen".
In fact, this strange ways of calling the numerals comes from the ancient gauls that used a 20 based system while the romans used a 10 based system. 20 being the number of finger+toes that a normal person have.
Makes perfect sense in a 20-based system, having read the comment on such. But why not eighty-fourteen, for 94?
But then I researched it and found this..."French Numbers: 80-89
Likewise, there's no word for “eighty” in standard French. * The French say quatre-vingts, literally four-twenties. ** So 81 is quatre-vingt-un (four-twenty-one), 82 is quatre-vingt-deux (four-twenty-two), etc."
These would make fantastic sky pirate planes in a Hayao Miyazaki movie.
How do you know they aren’t?
I pretty sure I saw some of these in Howl’s Moving Castle
I wonder would they say "yarr harr harr" or "hon hon hon"
These french designs remind me of the 'aircraft' I used to make out of old style Lego back in the 70s.
Have studied aviation history -- especially WW1 -- for 50+ years, but this is the first time I have heard of Amedeu Mecozzi. Thank you for the introduction. My compliments.
WE EATING GOOD TODAY BOYS
Preflight fheck list
Bomb load..check
Cheese..check
Vin ordinaire..check
Baugettes..check
Hampster taunts..check
Your mother was a hamster! And your father smells of elder berries!
I have to say, your sense of humour makes these videos so much better than they already are! I think the matter-of-fact, Rowan Atkinson-style delivery is what really sells it.
Certainly concludes with a Blackadder-esque conclusion of the French bombers between 1930s and mid-1940 "BOOM! BOOM! BOOM BOOM!" - as the ground crews blew them up.
I've loved planes MY WHOLE LIFE and just had no idea it was this freaking crazy until I discovered your channel. Thank you so much, I can't even describe how much entertainment and joy you've brought to my life.
Other sources tend to concentrate on the planes that were successful and had historically important operational achievements. These other planes get overlooked, for obvious reasons, but are still fascinating to people like us.
I like these longer videos, they're excellant to spread over my downtime over the course of a few days. And it's genuinely usefull to hear how in real time, the airplane manufacturers were problemsolving for the specific functions the plane had to perform; the tacticians were problemsolving in real time for what functions the plane needed to perform and the officials were problemsolving in real time how not to look bad in front of the public.
They either look like aerial garden sheds or are rather beautiful art-deco influenced, and streamlined artworks. There’s no middle way.
14:01 Old-mate nonchalantly smoking a Gauloise amongst canvas, fuel, and other burny things, cool factor 110% - absolutely NFG, bloody legend! 👍🏻😁
if i remember well some WW2 US Fighterplanes had Ashtrays built in the Cockpit
@@Sturminfantrist certainly the P47 did, and likely many others too. They probably weren’t too worried about lung cancer when life expectancy could be measured in minutes.
@@ThreenaddiesRexMegistus Or fuel vapours. As I recall, this was one of the theories proposed for the loss of the Flight 19-search Mariner. Fag break in a flying fuel tank.
"... several prototypes which didn't get anywhere but did look equally weird."
What a unique combination of words. 🤔
This is the long-awaited Dastardly and Mutley origin story
Your longer videos, while I'm sure taxing and consuming great amounts of time for you, are the best. When you are able to concentrate on one area the work is so much better and a real pleasure to consume.
As a loyal watcher and fan, you are one of a handful of channels I actively search out for, and actively get excited when a new video is found.
Thank you, your work is important to many of us!
Hot take but a lot of these look beautiful to me, I cant help but close my eyes and imagine the amazing view some of these green house designs would allow.
I sometimes think the first requirement of each aircraft's design was to "look funky".
"sacre bleu, vee are not boriing like ze germans, make it look interestingue no?"
Oh, such an idea! A montage of these things, with a backing soundtrack of Chic and assorted French disco-funk.
Cut to Germans, with national anthem playing, for a few seconds.
Back to funk soundtrack and more French flying carbuncles.
It`s quite interesting to think that only after 10 years since the introduction of Amiot 143, a B-29 bomber had dropped a atomic bomb and first requirements were drafted for a project that eventually led to the B-52 that is still an operational aircraft.
I love it when Rex start talking about old french bomber or when Drach start talking about old french pre-dreadnought 😂😂😂
The naration since you ask was perfect on this, I applaud your decision to go on the fly with it, not scripted text.
Classic examples of "The French copy no one and no one copies the French".
No one copies the French except when one uses words like fuselage, ailerons, mayday, parachute, army corps, division, brigade, regiment, battalion, squadron, group, company, platoon, squad, general, lieutenant, sergeant, corporal, soldier, uniform, camouflage, espionnage, fusilier, grenadier, armament... ;)
@@jeromelemoine1942 Actually we blame the Scandinavians for that one. What? The Normans were
Vikings that took a wrong turn through France on the way, we've never been beaten by the cheese eaters! :D
@@MrGrimsmith if the Normans were Viking, why didn't they speak scandinavian then?
Rex has an almost British turn of phrase on understated euphemisms. Vis-a-vis... (pause)... "adventurous design choices" :)
The Aussies take British dry humor, marinade it well in sarcasm and serve.
I wasn’t expecting to burst out into spontaneous laughter over and over again as ever more hideous designs of aircraft were shown. Amazing.
My favorite of these aircraft has to be the Farman 222 and the Breguet 19. The 222 may be interwar but it can carry a crazy amount of bombs for the time and is a joy to fly in Warthunder while the Breguet just looks cool to me. Thanks for the videos and I wish you a merry Christmas.
The flying cardboard boxcar is definitely a load of fun to fly because of how enormous and stupid it looks. Stupid looking planes are the most enjoyable imo.
the Baguette 19
+1 for the Baguette 19
Breguet 19? Didn't that have such a fantastic range that it was nicknamed the "Flying Fuel Tank"? I know something French and bomber like had that nickname.
@robertwilloughby8050 Maybe the Super-Bidon version of the Baguette 19? I'm not sure, my knowledge of French interwar planes doesn't exist
Watching this, I'm amazed at the technical advancement in aviation, especially ompared to other weapons of war.
A rifle from 1914 is far inferior to a modern rifle, but it can still (just barely) get the job done for a soldier today. The rate of fire is far worse, but the bullet is just as deadly, and the accuracy is similar.
An airplane from 1914, however, is basically a toy compared to a modern aircraft. A French 1914 bomber is closer to a child's kite than to an F35.
Another irony is that a toy drone is now the lethal bomber weapon and reconnaissance tool of modern armies.
That thumbnail has me hooked. Visually distressing is my new favorite expression!
Your commentary on French aircraft "style" is priceless! 😂
"I'm gonna make a quick vid about French bombers..."
-6 months later-
"And there's another series done."
I have to admit Rex, that i didnt realise how much i missed your regular amazing quality videos. Glad youre getting back in to things and settled in your new home!
Whether they're building ships or planes, the French penchant for covoluted designs never ceases to amaze.
Look at the Dunkerque and the Richelieu , they are very elegant ships
Are we sure Blackburn wasn’t a French company?
Yes, I always thought the Blackburn Blackburn was the most ugly aircraft ever, but i might have to re-consider...
@@guidor.4161wait until you realise the Buccaneer was one of Blackburn’s prettiest aeroplanes
Buccaneer is beautiful!@@keithwasntbarrumsing483
I think of Blackburn as a triumph of Men In Sheds, in a way that could maybe never happen outside of Yorkshire.
@@j_taylor I thought Blackburn was in Lancashire?
A twin that could be used as a bomber, recon, interceptor, and ground attack? You mean like the JU-88, ME-410, P38, Beaufigter, A-20 Havoc, Mosquito, and to some degree the B-25. I left the ME-210 off the list because it did nothing well. I could also add the P-47, F6F, and F4U to that list as well as other rolls but they were singles and were really fighters that could carry bombs. Sometimes a lot of bombs. So it was not such a crazy idea just don't try to make it a heavy bomber as well.
The A-20 wasn't really used much as an interceptor (nightfighter) by USAAF (mostly training), RAF (short career) or USSR (not at all, IIRC). But mentioning it is ironic given it was originally intended for France given its failure to finally get a good light bomber sorted out in the LeO 451 early enough to ramp up production fast enough to be ready for WW2.
I usually listen to Rex's video as a background, only listening, but this occasion is different. A connoisseur's delight, aesthetic treat, x-files (x as in x-rated) of ancient times.
A companion piece on the Hispano-Suiza and Gnome-Rhône engines with which these aircraft were powered would be very interesting. I have always wondered why the G-R radials were so susceptible to battle damage whereas the Pratt & Whitneys would still run with one or two cylinders shot off!
1:24:10 - Have you seen my 34 foot stepladder? I've misplaced it, somehow.
Major props for doing this in a script free format. If you had been reading a script, I would likely have tuned out 30 min in. The free flowing style allowed you to pursue points of interest in a very natural and engaging manner. I never thought I'd car enough about interwar French bombers to happily spend nearly 2 hours listening about them, but here we are. Very well presented.
3:49 - the front looks like a place, which, to put it politely, is used to muddy the waters in the underlying moat.
back in late 80´s Czechoslovak model kit producer bought some molds from Heller (?) - so i had a collection of french aviation - Amiot 143, LeO 451, Brequet 639, Potez 540 + czechoslovak licence version of MB 200.... and indeed, those planes got some weird french design :-)
Heller indeed!
I am a former aircraft electrical mechanic, USAF and civilian contractor. I had to work with engineers...ARRGH.. Love your commentary!
Fascinating stuff, French Hemp must have been good in the 20s and 30s!
I moved from Cronulla to Malaeny in December, loaded the truck, as a Welshman I almost melted away, no aircon in homes in the 90s. Lasted 15 years in Oz.
The French; "what is this concept of Aerodynamics you speak of?"
Rex, you have outdone yourself. You are presenting quality product on a topic that I had never imagined that I needed to learn about. Fantastic work!
I think that this has been my favourite video of the year by ANY creator. Well done, Rex. Eagerly awaiting part 2 and hopefully many more long subjects.
Maurice: I tell you Louis -- what could be better than putting all essential persons in a large bathtub under the fuselage, where fighters diving out of the sun can't reach them?!
Louis: But what about fighters that attack from below?
Maurice: ... More wine?
1:38:31 I have gone back over this several times, and I'm still hearing "friendship bombers" 😄
Thank you for the video Rex!
Your unscripted narration is excellent, which only goes to prove that you really know your subject well. Well done, and thank you.
Truly excellent Rex - love your work on this - possibly one of your very best. Keep up the great work.
For those who don't know, Rex's book archive is the warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. It's quite.... hard to find your way around if you don't already know! So we must remember to be patient.
Curated by top men no doubt
Isn't that Warehouse 13?
Curated by a gaggle of excentric misfits?
Aloha Rex,
Although I am now grounded and disabled, that doesn't mean I 'm not interested in flight and how we got to this stage of aviation.
Any and all aircraft, winners and losers may be useful to view or study.
Tech never is stagnant and can only be here and now because of how it got here .
Although I am not interested in weapons or a better way to destroy mankind, there are lessons to learn from even these aircraft.
Thank you for your huge knowledge and outstanding analysis of this very sad period. The main sentence is : too few, too late. Felicitations.
Great Britain had two achievements during the 30's : the fighters (Hurricane, Spitfire) and heavy bombers (Stirling, Lancaster,...).
(a french officer of naval aviation 1970-2000)
This was the best video you have ever made. Thank you for not just telling us what happened, but why it happened.
My thoughts exactly. Rex rules!
Absolutely brutal undertake, mate. Loved it.
Part 2 will surely feature one of the most beautiful interwar period bomber families, the Amiot 350 series. A gem of a design, sadly courtailed by being French in its leisurely slow development.
Thanks for touching on the subject of corruption. I remember the old AVIONS and AeroJournal magazine articles dealing with aircraft industry and how much of its crumbling performance came down to outright corruption, political/economical interest and general "Laissez faire" atittude at every level even after nationalization and the Germans looming on the horizon.
Cheers.
Due to the deep-dive length, I had to wait for the right time to give this a proper view. Despite my decades-long devotion to military aircraft, I hadn't heard of any of the aircraft covered here and I found it to be fascinating. I was especially surprised at the astounding production numbers of these bizarre aircraft. Your presentation was flawless; I never would have guessed that it was unscripted and your wry commentary was brilliant. This was a great presentation of a little-known part of aviation history. Your efforts are very much appreciated and I look forward to Pt 2.
Congrats on the new place! hope you love it!
It feels soooooo good to know you don't have to move for a long time.
Who would have thought that a documentary about pre war French Bombers would be so enjoyable to watch, I think the term 'Horrendously Frightening Aircraft' sums it up! Thank you for producing this excellent video.
Regarding something you say about presentation;- don't change a thing, you don't ramble, I like this less scripted Rex, really. I even like your pronunciation attempts that don't really work! Classic Brit speaking French with a solid English accent!! I am not even taking the p--s either, it is what it is, and you are who you are, and we love you the more for it. It is as if Rex's Hanger already existed, just waiting for you to fill the void! (Yet I appreciate the squillions of hours of solid research you must have done to arrive where you have, and the support you receive is testament to it, and to you a thousand thanks for your graft)
Thank you very much for this video, My grand father was at that time young aero engineer part of the team that designed the Potez 63/11. Like all about France in this dark period that led to the catastrophy of 1940 the sum of the parts was unfortunately appallingly lower than the true individual talents and capacities.
I have not watched it yet, but thank you for the long video! You are now the Drydock of the sky!
Wonderful video! Love the inter-war aviation period as there was so much advancement.
Truly a comprehensive compendium of French aviation concepts and conundrums. I’ve an old edition of Jane’s aircraft of the later period (Part 2) so was greatly intrigued by the preceding period’s developments and designs.
very good ,photos that were new to me ,keep the outstanding videos coming
Excellent piece Rex, congrats on the deep research and great presentation.
I've been looking forward to this so thank you.
Thank you for putting this together, fascinating content, very comprehensive - fantastic research. So much more interesting than the usual well trodden material.
The Bernard 82 looks straight out of Tintin. Love it. Seeing the Farman F220 after that is a punch to the eyes
I had my doubts about this vid when I saw the length, but was quite suprised as it reached the end and I was left wanting more. Bring on part 2!
Another brilliant video. Love your style of presentation; full of facts but also lighthearted.
Very detailed and informative review of a part of the aviation world that is rarely focused on, thanks very much...!
Good video. I commend you for being in australia and having books. Gives you something to fight off the killer spiders
Some of those planes looks like something the boys over at Flite Test could have glued together.
Wow thanks Rex! Merry Christmas!
Superb video. Well done Rex
It should also be noted that the French and Belgians had warned the world that the Reichswehr had been violating the Versailles Treaty almost from the outset. The Weimar Republic had been largely subordinate to the Reichswehr in many ways, they German army had been allowed to disengage to go back and crush the German socialist uprisings that had ended The Great War and this had made the army a state within a state.
This is why French and American officers had said at Versailles "well have to fight them again in twenty years"; they hadn't destroyed the Germany army and removed Prussian militarism as the basis of the state. This is frequently misrepresented as a testimony that the treaty had been too harsh, something not borne out by the actual statements of the officers involved.
The French bombers were viewed with some astonishment by those in the British Expeditionary Force Air Component. Paul Richey DFC, the author of the book ‘Fighter Pilot’ flew Hurricanes with RAF No.1 Squadron. When they arrived in Cherbourg, he wrote,
‘We dispersed the aircraft along a road and were at once surrounded by groups of French sailors. They were conscripts and showed great interest in our Hurricanes, marvelling at their armament and politely incredulous at their performance figures.
This was not surprising, for the only aircraft besides small training machines we saw at Cherbourg were Latécoère dive-bombers-high-wing monoplanes with one 640-horsepower Hispano engine (half the horsepower of a Hurricane), one machine-gun firing through the propeller and another in a rear turret, and carrying two 500 lb bombs, plus the incredible crew of five- pilot, bomb-aimer, gunner, navigator, and engineer!
Normal speed was only 80 mph, but right 'off the clock' while dive-bombing. The men who dared dive those ghastly contraptions with that load aboard were worthy of the name.’
And although I guess he should know, I’ve never fully identified this beast, the closest possibly being the wheeled version of the Latécoère 290, some of which were at Cherbourg at the time, although they only carried three crew. I suppose they could well have been multi-tasking to cover 5 tasks and that Richey was confused but he was fluent in French so that’s unlikely. It’s something that’s always bugged me!
This was fascinating! Keep up the great work!
Thank you Rex for all the research that goes into these. Happy holidays!
In decades of watching TH-cam videos I have probably commented on less than 20 videos but this series was so well researched and presented that I feel subscription and comment were in order. Very well done, lad. Very. Well. Done.
Dudeman this is brilliant. It is like being given the whole cake at once. Thanks.
A splendid video. The mention of Flying Review International brought back memories of my teenage years when it was very much required reading.
Fantastic and well researched video, you're videos are best on these topics. Keep up the good work...
1:17:50 - I doubt that the crew in the gondola were at much disadvantage when it came to fighter attacks. The metal skin of the plane was less than 1mm thick so provided no defence from anything more powerful than an air rifle.
I love this video. I appreciate the effort and found it both enlightening and entertaining.
Very cool. Love the videos.
Aircraft suggestion: Dehavilland Dragon Rapide
Howdy from West Texas, Rex! I really enjoy your videos and I love the long-form in-depth content. Perhaps after you finish a multi-part video topic you could release a full-length video that has all parts together? Just an idea, I know I’d watch them lol. Keep up the great work, looking forward to more! :)
Great video. Loved it! Awesome job
Mate - another quality presentation. Well played . . .
Very interesting indeed of what I feel is something of a series of optically disturbing aeroplanes. No wonder the French Citroen 2 "ugly duckling" was such a popular car!
Your script and narration are an absolute joy to which to listen - PLEASE don't change too much at all.
I love the long videos, thank you Rex.
Great video thank you 👍👍
That explanation of the bombing doctrine was brilliant. Thank you.
I really love you long videos. They are carefully assemblied and the time liteally flyby :)
superb as always
Hi. I have loved aircraft all my life - I am 66 - and I thought I knew a bit about them, even the less well known types, even the French idiosyncrasies you have described here in your inimitable way. But clearly not! Brilliant stuff sir, I salute your massive energies in rooting out information on these inter-war monstrosities!! I can't even imagine where I'd start looking to find the pictures and photos and information on such obscure yet real - many thousands of all sorts built over the years - aeroplanes. I raise a glass to the French, I raise a second glass to you and your perseverance (-;)~