Game Geeks #48 Burning Empires
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ก.พ. 2008
- Game Master Kurt Wiegel reviews and educates viewers on role playing games. In episode #48 Kurt reviews Burning Empires by Luke Crane and Chris Moeller.
www.burningempires.com/
Burning Empires is Copyright © Luke Crane.
The Iron Empires is a trademark of Chris Moeller
Game Geeks © PugKnows Productions - บันเทิง
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FYI: World-building comes first, before you generate PCs. You create the world, determine in what phase to start, what the basic situation is, and then come up with who the important characters are. *Then* you create those important characters. You *don't* pre-determine what's going to happen. The GM will then make up a relationship map for the important characters in play, and use that to guide his decisions for the NPCs. Then you start playing and see what happens. Zero-prep beyond that point.
Having had a chance to play this game I comfortable say it is the best game I have ever played!
But yes, it is very different.
Over at RPGnet you alluded that this would be a negative review. Let me disagree, your review isn't negative at all. You are upfront about your and your group's preferences and actually treat the game very fairly! Keep up the good work!
I'm coming VERY late to this conversation, but I largely agree with Kurt on this one. I own BE, and I own the BE trade paperbacks as well. I bought the TPBs mainly because I wanted to understand the setting better (and because they looked really cool). And the BE TPBs are wonderful graphic novels. And yes, you really ought to read them before understanding the game. (Strike one against the game). The game itself is easily the most beautiful RPG I have ever owned. It is a triumph of graphic design and publishing quality, and it sets a new high-water mark for RPG production values, IMHO. I also loved the World Burning system, and the lifepath system was pretty cool, too. The conflict resolution left me scratching my head, though, and I felt as if the conflict between GM and players was too forced; I prefer a more collaborative approach in my games. I can't say if the rules are overly complex, but they are from such a different (and original, I must say) direction, that they left me in the dust, quite frankly. Ultimately, I could not see myself playing this game,let alone getting my friends to play it. Like Kurt, I don't think the game is bad, but it is definitely not for me. I'm still glad I own a copy of it, though, and FWIW, I think Luke Crane is some kind of supergenius when it comes to game design. The guy is thinking so far outside of traditional parameters, it's almost scary. The downside is that he tends to make games that are on a level high above where my gaming threshold is. The upside is that as long as people like him are making games like Burning Empires, I think RPGs in general become a better form of entertainment.
I'm sorry to hear what a poop game this is. :-/
I know this is 6 years late, but if you happen to still own the game AND don’t want to play it, would you consider selling it? I have the pdf but I’d love to own it in print to make okay easier.
@@03dashk64 Hi! I do still have the book, but I'd rather not part with it, as I do still flip through it from time to time and don't have the PDF.
Bill Coffin absolutely makes sense. The pdf was reasonably priced, so at least we can still play. But the actual print versions are almost unfindable. The only copies out there are ungodly expensive. Thanks for replying so quickly though! I hope you enjoy it :)
I don't think Kurt has to give "negative" reviews in the sense of "you must NOT buy this book!" Gaming is subjective, largely because players shape the experience. He does a good job giving an overview of a game and whether the system it uses achieves what the authors wanted it to achieve in the context they were using it. It's definitely more open-minded than what some other reviewers use, but I find it more helpful because he is not bringing is own preferences into play.
Is there a re-review of this game? Maybe Kurt has had time to give the game a go?
The comics the game is based on from 1994, roughly contemporary to 40k's launch. Not that GW invented soldiers in power armor by any stretch.
I think Evil Hat is doing a more limited version of this in the City Building of Dresden Files.
I was/am. Its a puzzlement to me.
Yeah, is is not as easy at it seems & there is a lot to agree on beforehand. BE didn't work for me either ( not because I didn't like the game, but simply because it is difficult to steer). I had really good games of BW, thought. I mean REALLY GOOD ones ! All in all, those games have a lot to offer if your group is homogenous (i.e. same level of education & intrerests). Otherwise it is difficult.
Ignore the grumbling fanboys, Kurt. Thanks again for doing these. - John
Those are all VERY narrative games. I know my gaming group would probably revolt over that too... I wish I could find a group to try this out with.
I don't mind the review, I actually kind of appreciate that level of honesty. My criticism of the episode is more technical, I was jolted by the transition from the intro to the main body of footage. That felt too fast and a bit sloppy. Besides that, another good one.
Also, this must have been said by many people already, if you wonder how your game should look or feel like, go read A Song Of Fire And Ice serie - or watch A Game Of Thrones. This is Burning Wheel in action (...or an ideal representation of it).
This is a very good, multi level rpg, with a very cutting edge and theoretical understanding of roleplaying. Once you get through the mechanics, and in to roleplay its actually a very smooth game.
The replay value is quite high, and the game does ecourage and reward some metagame thinking. Ultimately however, the strength of this game is its scale. This game is about politcs and planetary, or interplanetary issues. If all you want to do is kill stuff and gain levels its not for you.
It is an excellent but difficult game. Not because you play a story that has been foretold - it is actually quite the opposite - but because of the scene management mechanic (witch is not there in Burning Wheel). It is not for everyone, I agree, but to me the two games (BW & BE) are he best there is. These games push rpg elsewhere by focussing on the characters & their struggles - goals vs life itself - and cutting down the crap. I would recommend BW to start with.
@rintintin49 Despite really enjoying reading BW, I was never able to make it work in play. However, I think BW is simply required reading for any GM, regardless of whether you use it play or not. BE wasn't for me either. I really, really hated it, to be honest. It's the first time I ever quit a gaming group was due to BE, and I really wanted to like it. The adversarial nature of the game (GM vs. Players) just wasn't my bag. YMMV, of course. It's really quite brilliant, but not my cup of tea.
It sounds like I wouldn't like this game for the same reasons I didn't like "Capes" or "Universalis."
Er. Ok. You're welcome. Seriosuly
I think I know where you're coming from. I tried to read the rules for Burning Wheel once after hearing people rave about it. While I found the ideas unique and inspired, I felt overwhelmed and confused. Like you said, I wasn't sure exactly how to run the game, or even fully how to run character creation. It's a very unique game design, but it may be too "outside the box" for a lot of players used to more traditional RPGs. I think SotC/FATE handles a "player-driven narrative" style game better.
Gee, I guess he didn't get it. Hah!
There can be no good unless there is evil. Finally, a semi-negative....*cough* barely negative review. BRAVO!!!! Yes, I loved your review, and for its rarity I'll rate it the highest. Sounds like an innocative sytem, that marginalized the GM and narrative in favor of maxized set dressing.
That sounds like the opposite of fun for me, both as a player and as a GM.
The great misconception of RPGs is that people think you can take any cool book and make a game out of it and that's not always the case. Some books tell awesome stories but they're just too much trouble to game in. Either you get bogged down in mechanics trying represent the story world or you have to half-ass it and then get that "the book was better" BS people say about movies.
you look confused.
Kurt is being kind, this is probably one of the worst games I have ever read, besides BW. Both try to tell you how to roleplay and who needs that? These games are terrible.