Safely Transport Your Miniatures?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ส.ค. 2018
- What's the safe way to transport your miniatures? And safely? And within your budget? Uncle Atom shows you what types of options you have.
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2 years ago people seeing his shirt would think it's neat, nowadays it's the dead ghosts of amongst us astronauts haunting their murderer.
no
@@STEEVEWES why
its a pacman shirt
thats exactly what i saw
people saying no are hard capn'
Dark Eldars.... The transport costs more than the army.....
funny thing, I've always had a large collection of fully painted dark eldar from 4th ed handed down from the people who gt me into 40k, and I've always kept them, but in a shoebox or something and they must've been sprayed with enamel because they've held together pretty well lol.
It's almost like letting em rattle together in a shoebox is better than foam xD
25$ tacklebox from Walmart, some spray adhesive and some 2cm foam sheets. A little crafting later and i have a safe storage container for my Admech
$20 Plano 4 pistol gun case.
2 sheets of eggcrate foam, on sheet of pluck foam.
I only just found your channle about 3 weeks ago as I've been researching this hobby. I've always been infatuated by the warhammer 40k universe & tabletop gaming. With that being said, I finally pulled the trigger and bought the "First Strike" starter kit to get my foot in the door. I'm very excited to paint my space marines & death guards & play some games. I also convinced my friend Sean to join the hobby as well! I just want you to know that you were a big factor in my motivation to finally do this...thank you Atom! If I ever make it to Adepticon I hope to have the chance to meet ya! Keep up the great content & I'll keep watching, lol...
Welcome to the hobby world my friend. Enjoy :)
Welcome to the land of plastic crack. Say goodbye to all your money.
@@sadnessinside123 thanks...
@@thepigerians7634 I know right! I'm gonna be spreading my purchases out quite a bit so hopefully it'll feel less harsh on my wallet!
@John Parsons I really, really regret not starting sooner...I get kinda bummed when I think about it. The answer is sadly nothing stopped me from doing it sooner in life. But I'm here now and I've decided to just do this till I'm dead! Lol
I love battle foams magnarack system. I was involved over in a 65mph collision where 6 airbags deployed and an 11 month old car luxury was totaled. When I was cleaning it out at the junk yard I pulled my battle foam XL1520 case and not a single miniature was out of place. I’d like to see that with diy solutions or cardboard boxes!
Hey I'm looking for a battlefoam magnarack back to travell with. Can you recommend me one? It would be nice if I can fit a 7 inch tall fell beast for my mordor army xD!
Love your Madness of Mission 6 T-shirt. A really good friend of mine designed that for Threadless. Thanks for supporting him.
I had to move to australia to be with my fiance.
I lived in denmark previously.
And of course, i had to take my entire collection with me.
This includes but isnt limited to, A full army of orks and space marines.
other things if you're interested would include a small army of imperial guard.
(a few imperial guard squads and vehicles. i cant resist sentinels, and got a chimera with an HQ squad. but i digress. )
Aswell as some small tyranid and chaos squads.
So long story short i had some repairs to do when i arrived and unboxed it all.
We feel your pain brother, for both the models and your new shipping costs.
I 3D print all of my bases so I have made a 3D printed latch mechanism on trays so that I can lock all miniatures to the tray for transport. Similarly to the magnet solution, but this requires quite a lot of force to knock loose when the latch is engaged.
Works like a charm, even saved my models from a drop on the staircase.
STL GOOD SIR
I'd also recommend egg-carton foam if your models are relatively resilient (think space marines or ork boys rather than harlequins or admech). You can fit a lot of models in a small space. Also, at least if you live in the US, you can go to a lot of sporting goods stores and find relatively cheap gun cases that come pre-packed with foam. I use a "double pistol" case to carry my grey knights, it has two layers of eggshell foam and a layer of pick and pluck.
I have been hobbying since 2010, but now is the first time I will try to magnitize my models. It will hopefully protect my models during transport, and make it safer to play with them, too.
I have a detolf cabinet, it is a great investment if you have painted models you want to display.
Cool shirt btw!
I feel odd referring to another channel but for those thinking about going the magnetic option Goobertown hobbies has a diy magnetic box/case video
IMO, the point of these types of videos is to help inspire people on what can be done. So why not share information to others about good videos on the same topic.
But keep in mind I'm also subscribed to this channel, Goobertown Hobbies channel and Squidmar Miniatures all because of the tips, tricks, tutorials and information they each give.
Of those 3 channels I watch them for the following reasons.
Squidmar - His painting and Basing is damn good to great, with a lot of information about how to achieve the effects, techniques and materials used.
Goobertown - Brent is the 'Bob Ross' of the TH-cam miniatures creators. Great videos on the why and how's of things, like his carry box video you talked about, magnetized bases & what they can be used for and best side by side comparison of paint stripping products vs different paints and painting methods.
TM Atom - Is just a wealth of tabletop miniatures gaming. Also some great videos on terrain, basing and miniature building and painting tips, tricks and techniques.
Lastly I believe that most of these guys understand that they don't know everything, really love the hobby and want to spread its exposure to as many people as they can. So they see each other as members of the same hobby brotherhood and realize that overall if it is good for the hobby community as a whole then it is overall a good thing for them also and wish each other the best of luck.
I'm saving for a magnarack right now, but I put all the magnets on the bases of the models. my 5 dollar hold over is a cake pan I stripped the nonstick coating with steel wool and it works like a charm and I recommend for anyone who has 15$ too spend on protecting their minis
I did the reverse of the magnets/metal. I attached fender washers to the base of my Bolt Action minis. 28mm bases with a fender washer of the similar diameter. Then I bought magnet strips and a couple of sheets and attached them to the inside of a large tackle box. It’s a Plano 737, and has enough space that I can carry two, 2000 point armies, with vehicles, dice, measuring tools, dice bag, etc. and it’s super sturdy and protects everything really well. That’s for going to 3 miles from my house to the game store. I am looking for home storage solutions, something stackable, and one where I can put magnetic sheets in them.
It's sounds like stepping on a cat may have been from experience
Its too specific for it to be a mere example
DASIK - a Kickstarter of acrylic inserts to the DETOLF shelf system from IKEA to get more on display. Definitely a good buy for my case.
Polyester batting for sowing works great for shipping the fiddly bit figures too if you pull it a little loose and act as a package filler.
I have a few different cases from GW, I ended up getting a sheet of foam and made my own case inserts that held my army in specific. Worked well so far.
The first case I made for my models back before I could afford battle foam cases was using the larger wood 7.62mm ammo boxes and the corrugated mattress topper foam.
The cases were great and you could store like 80 Space Marines in them and were only about 40$ CAD too put together.
I have a variation of the magnets in the base. I get magnetic self-adhesive sheets from the craft store. Affix them to the bottom of a suitably deep hard plastic container. Then attach plain metal washers of the appropriate size with glue or putty to the miniatures base. Not only does this keep them in place, but it adds weight to the base to keep them stable plus you don't have the magnets trying to grab each other!
Nice idea!
I do this too. I use "Really Useful Boxes", and cheap washers.
The washers add weight to plastic minis which have added bonuses
- Bonuses like, keeping Genestealers/Necron Wraiths/other top-heavy models from tipping over
- Saves the magnets for magnetizing bitz/weapons/options
- Cut out/use 1" stickers on the bottom of the washers to identify figures (Named Chars/kill team spec/If Lost Please Call...)
- Embed magnets in scenery and make models climb walls!!
Nice!
Yes, exactly this. Also, if You can (and You CAN, at least in countries with metric system, don't know about US) get washers that are in size of bases and You can just skip bases entirely (glue some cork or plastic on top and pin them)
For US sizes, I use SAE washers from wherever I can get them cheaply, and usually they are less expensive than Metric ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The sizes are not perfect, but they are close enough, and with some GorillaGlue/Epoxy, they are never falling apart.
25mm = 1"
32mm = 1 1/4"
40mm = 1 1/2"
50mm = 2"
60mm = 2 3/8" (this one is tough to find, expensive, and heavy, just use several smaller washers)
Then double-sided tape to hold the flexible magnetic sheeting to the box, and stick in the Minis.
I made my own Table War style case for about $40. I used a Harbor Freight aluminum tool case, made shelves out of thin wood that wedge in to the divider indents, and stuck tin flashing to the shelves with spray adhesive. It holds 90% of my army, and the shelves come out at the FLGS for games. I keep my tanks in the same case, but with pluck-foam.
I lucked out because my lovely girlfriend is a teacher. The tech person at her school was cleaning out last year and had several old cases for Promethean Board Active-voting Pods that she needed to get rid of. They are sturdy, have a strong handle, and measure 24 x 12 x 6. They came with foam inserts for the former occupants (the voting Pods), but I am in the process of swapping that out with pick n pack foam.
I also have two large black plastic cases that I think originally held electronic equipment. If you keep your ears and eyes open, you might find a free case to repurpose for your own use.
I did the magnetizing trick with my Space Marine Scout bikes, it works pretty well with their flagged antenna's. Alternatively one can magnetize the fiddly bits, my Baneblade(s) have magnetized antenna's for example.
In general though transporting mini's is something one can get quite creative with:
I've got an circular alimunium box (1.5" high and about 3-4" in diameter) that held candies, which is downright perfect for willing with some tissues and a few character models.
My cheapest (still very sturdy) army storage is a salad box with layers of bubblewrap in them, the box is just about big enough to store a single eldar grav tank and a bunch of models.
If you're really for cheap transport, then the bigger boxes (start collecting/tanks etc) filled with bubble wrap are quite good at protecting mini's. That is as long as the box is not getting squished by being put in a tight bag.
Trying to transport my nighthaunts has been a nightmare lol. Glad you posted this!
What’s the best option for taking minis on a plane?
i would love another video like this for paint storage, especially for citadel paints
oh
its a pacman reference.
I thought the same thing
Ironic how relevant that shirt is two years later
@@cobrataco6314 Amogus o.0
I have one of the original games workshop hard cases, with the red foam. I also have a army transport motor pool bag that has the pull a pluck.
My Flames of War and Star Wars Legion figures are in tool sorters and fishing lure boxes but them i have to fit everything in my knapsack as I walk to the game store. Thanks for the tips
I use Kaiser Rushforth cases for storage and transport. I found the Battle Foam to be a lot more expensive. I bought one to try it out (it was on offer) but with postage it was way more expensive. For my 10 and 15mm stuff I use box files with added inserts.
1:08 I saw strain in your eyes when you mentiined this. It must have been a serious set of minis you damaged that day. 😳
Great recommendations especially for a chaos player
:O There's some I didn't know about. I don't always transport my miniatures very well, but by and large I mostly just have board game minis and not too many delicate minis, I'm going to get that Battle of Pelinor fields starter set coming up soon. Cool to see some neat options. Thanks for the video.
The ikea case is called Detolf and they’re great.
Why do people like this for miniatures? The distance between shelves is enormous for miniatures.
Alcovitch because they are cheap and it’s full glass, it’s great for letting as much light as possible pass through
@@druidobianco9734 i know there is another ikea case which they use: Billy. do you know that case?
@@stefanodeseo4967 i think i own a billy but they are shelves not glass cases
My favorite budget case option is a plastic file box (the kind built for manilla folders) with trays I make out of EVA foam (matts from Home Depot) or cardboard and cheap felt, good protection, 1/5 the price of the products marketed for the purpose.
For my night goblin army I have a little metal box my grandfather brought back from the Navy right after WW2. I put my homemade movement trays in it and have magnets on almost all of my gobs . I know grandpa would have been thrilled that his old box is being used lovingly, even if he wouldn't have understood my obsession with the little green guys it holds!
A really useful video. I’m really liking your t shirt by the way.
So... the way I've done it is I bought some Crystal Fortress cases (it's a bit of work to figure out what kinds you need for you army, but so far, it's been worth the effort to measure things).
When I got the cases assembled, I bought some cork board strips from a local arts and crafts store (which I also use for the bases on my models) and cut the corkboard to the correct size sqaure to fit into the cases snuggly. Then I took the boards back out, placed all my Space Wolves on the boards, making sure there were no weapons or limbs overhanging the edges, marked the edges of the bases of the models using a pen, and cut out all the spaces for where the models would go.
Then because I'm weird I went back flipped the cased upside down, placed the cork on the bottom of the case, and marked with X each gap in the cork board. On each X, I put a rare earth magnet.
Next, I went and painted and based the entire cork board with the same theme as my models' bases, making sure not to paint the bottom of the cork. Then I glued the entire cork board to the inside of my crystal fortress cases.
Lastly, I glued some magnets to the bottom of my models, though thanks to a commentor here in the comments, I think what I will do is remove the magnets and instead get some metal washer of the right size because as Joseph Bejnarowicz mentioned, if you glue washers to the bases instead, the models don't try and stick to each other.
Anyway, the cases are now display cases *AND* transport cases. They won't slide because of the cork, and they won't detach from the case because of the magnets. It was a fair bit of work, but I really like how it turned out and I am confident in how stable the whole thing is (so long as I never drop it on a corner by accident.)
Love your videos, by the way :)
I used to magnetize the bases of my minis and use a metal cake pan with a lid to carry them around, but that just became more effort than I cared to deal with so now I'm just using a normal ol foam cut-out dealio from Feldherr.
my travel box, show box with ripped sheets as stuffing, for displaying, acrylic clear display cases, but are like 50 bucks for six, can hold 40 units if you stack them on like tooth pick home made racks.
Really helpful video, thanks Uncle Atom
Dude, I'm not into miniatures at all, but I may watch your videos just to listen.
Next video: "This is a response to a viewer's request, so here's a video about my microphone and audio settings."
I ve been using wooden wine boxes for years with success. I must admit it is a bit heavy as these boxes are designed to protect very expensive wine. I will be purchasing foam from Battlefoam and converting them to fit within the dimensions of a few of my boxes to see how that works. I have 10 of these boxes, all are full of my chaos army. Can't wait to see how it works out.
OMG! I've got the same image as your TShirt on my PC
And from what is is? Band? Movie? :D
@@GermanOlle It was an old threadless Tshirt. I don't know if they make it anymore. "Madness of mission 6" is what the shirt was called.
I have a tool box for 20 bucks. I fit like 100 + reg infantry models and 9ish vehicle's. All with magnets
This is pretty much the way to go
I will be traveling to CA in the summer. I have a few metal miniatures I want to take with me but I am not sure 1) what can protect them best, and 2) if they will allow me to take them as a carry on.
Any advice?
Instead of magnets I was thinking of gluing machine screw nuts to the bottom of the bases, then having a piece of plywood or pegboard with the screw sticking through and glued in place so the models can be glued to the tray. A cheap set of screws from harbor freight and a bit of peg board is probably cheaper than the foam options. You could also make the trays stackable and made to fit whatever size box or bag you want.
Nice seeing you at NOVA!
I had a really great time. Thanks for watching, and for saying hello!
I got one of those display cases as a birthday present :D
Hey Atom thanks for the video. My Guard army is shaping up. I have an off topic question potential video topic maybe. I know in the past you said to write down paint recipes but what if you didn’t follow that advice how do you try and recreate an older paint job. I have a dark shiny blue on some finished minis that I can’t for the life of me recreate. I’m starting to think it’s the white primer I can no longer get at my Canadian Tire. I used three different primers and got two batches to match but not to the original. I would post photos but I no longer have Facebook.
Have you ever thought about reading audiobooks. I find your manner of speaking very soothing and nice to listen to. If you read like you talk, you would make a great voice for a nice audiobook.
How would you transport larger more unruly models (ex. Magnus, mortarion, daemon prince with wings)
Oh, and for the Detolf display case (the glass tower in the video) you should be *VERY* careful with the glass.
The weight rating for each shelf is only 7lbs. Two bottles of wine, for instance, will break the glass. Likewise, and entire shelf full of old GW metal minis can cause the shelf to break. There is a reason it is so cheap. If you want to buy a glass display case, just be aware of the weight rating for the shelves themselves, and be aware of how much your army weighs.
Will topcoat them help to preserve the models? I have some rattle can matte spray than I use for model kits, thinking of using that to give some first paint miniatures that extra protection, since I´m starting to get into the game and getting miniatures
What type of cases would be recommended for transporting AdMech units and vehicles? I'm assuming a metal box with magnets attached to the miniatures such as the Ironstriders would be the best method.
I have the citadel case (the mid sized one) fits all my troops very well. What about transporting vehicles? I have 2 triarch stalkers and a doomsday ark that I get to build next month
I used to use Egg Cartons, but I eventually upgraded to the old GW Hardcases, still use those to this day.
Tips in this video are great, however nowhere until now have I seen anyone offering budget solution for transport for flyers such as Dark Eldar and Eldar fighters and bombers.
Those are very space consuming. I have big wing models & the cheap solution i got is dollar store:
1) Plastic hard box (comic book container) contains about 6 plague drones.
2) Masking tape, 6 small magnets (0.3-0.5mm), superglue
3) tactically position the vehicles to have ample space to wiggle (important) within the box during transport
4) magnet+superglue+base / magnet+tape+box ; vise-versa
taaada!
* seriously, separate the base & the model save more space.
@tabletopminions. I have a diy request for you. A portable paint station. I was playing with the idea of a crafting or cosmetic train case. It would include a portable battery led and different small boxes for wet pallette brushes and a collasable cup, etc. Everything you need to assemble and paint. I was hoping you could do a video on your take without any actual building. Thanks in advance for reading my comment.
I just got necrons and the Doom sythe is HUGE and I have no idea how I can transport that anywhere even with the cases
Best shirt ever. I love that design.
He was ahead of the curb.
I have a soft Army Case with the pluck foam trays. I decided I want the Games Workshop cases after I saw them at one of my Games Workshop stores.I'll be traveling from my house to each of the stores for sure. The only way I see myself traveling on a plane is if I get to go to Great Britain someday.
MagnaRack is ok, but you can get a cheaper/better alternative with Tablewar Display case. I priced them both out, earlier this year. The Tablewar case came in at $50 cheaper (the big one) as opposed to the MagnaRack, and it was a really nice hardcase, instead of vinyl.
Are Plano fishing cases not a thing? I use them for my Star Wars X-wing and Malifaux collection. I do have battle foam for my 40k collection but it ended up costing $200+ for a bag and some foam trays.
Oh my, where did you get that Pac man t-shirt. Love it!
ive found some old advanced dungeons and dragons modules and im thinking of running a game using age of sigmar models and rules ..i have a huge collection about 10 armies fully painted ,,have you ever done any thing like that ?
My biggest issue is large models I have a massive skaven army and have old large models like the original doomwheel and also a plague furnace I am currently looking for something to transport these in any suggestions?
GW Knight of Painting said Warhammer World uses large "Rubbermaid" bins and blue tac base to bottom for those Titanic models. :)
Pelican cases on EBay. You can find foam to fit them pretty easily.
I used a shoe box for 2 years, recently bought a small foam bag. It's a nice improvement but not ideal,I have to continue searching.
Thanks for the video !!
I saw a video the other day about building trays out of double corrugated cardboard and hot glue...
Worth pointing out that repeated use of foam can rub the paint off your models too, something that doesn't happen with magnets.
really helpful, thanks
Best carryon magnetic case by far is the Tablewar mini. Might not work for bigger games but for Infinity its about darn perfect.
Fits under the airplane seat!
We use T-Stack from Dewalt. They have pick and pluck inserts. :D
I have two of the glass cabs from IKEA and 5 hard plastic cases from GW and don't get me started on my battle foam trays lol 😂😂😂
Battlefoam was worth the investment. Got it half off on a fourth of July sale.
I’m that guy with the egg carton
That's a great T-Shirt.
Great, thank you.
Does foam scratch the paint on minis ?
Wow never thought about that 5:30 ... so this is the future XD
are you allowed to bring them as handbags in airports?
What about having to keep them in a hot car all day? Any ideas? Taking them inside is NOT an option while at work
Hey! I have that shirt too! :) Thanks for the video!
Is that a band shirt or something?
No, it's a reference to Pacman. You can't see it but the guy in yellow has a six-pack of anti-anxiety pills next to him.
It's called "Madness of Mission 6" and was originally on sale at threadless years ago.
2:35 absolute magic
Pa-chow
Have you seen crystal fortress? I would love to see a review on that carry system
The clear plastic modular cases? Pretty sure I saw them at Gen Con. Thanks for watching!
Expensive stuff. To fit all the models I currently have in a Citadel Battle Case (their medium case that I paid $80 for at my local store) would cost over $300 when you factor in magnets and a carry strap and everything else. They sure are pretty, though.
Best solution I have seen is a low but large tupperware case with a metal plate installed on the bottom...add minitures with magnetized bases and you are good to go. It also has the benefit of costing MAYBE $30 or $40. I have seen others with "Pelican" cases and the foam...problem is, the little fiddly bits snag on the foam. Not so ideal for my new Ad Mech army...they have TONS of little fiddly bits (like antennae) that would snap right off in such a case.
I quite like the citadel foam but only for transporting infantry. There's no space for tanks at all
What is a plane proof solution? I'm also not sure if I can hand held carry magnetized models.
All battlefoam are plane ready
The case from Ikea.
Nice shirt Atom!
I have a rather unique transportation problem, I bicycle everywhere. While I only ride in a combustion powered vehicle less than 200 miles a year, I bicycle almost 3,000 miles a year. The last time I changed apartments, I was able to move all may property, alone, with the help of a Bob’s trailer, (O.K. it was only about a mile, and I took a week off from work, but I did it!)
As you can guess, I transport figures in the same way. The problem is that the trailer bounces a bit. The foam packing I used, tended to act like a very fine sand paper, rubbing the paint off figures. I have also had my more delicate figures rattled apart. The rare earth magnets you described seem like a solution, but the environment they’d be in is more like that of checked baggage.
The only solution I can think of is to physically secure the bases to a shelf like surface, then place it in a storage box for transportation. The only way I can think to do that would be to use wire trash bag like ties to tie the models to a pegboard. Do you know of anything on the market like that, or am I going to have D.I.Y. this myself?
Cumberland Sausage-Sorry, nothing useful.
What if foam casing + magnets
In my FLGS group, but there are folks in it that have these clear acrylic display cases that they use for Warmachine tournaments. They are cases that have grooved rails that fit privateer press beveled edges these rails are spaced and mounted in the acrylic shelves for standard warmachine base sizes 50mm 120mm etc. so they slot minis into them like a horizontal single stacked magazine. These are not good for carrying lots of minis but they are made for tournament play as they are usually sized for 2 army lists and you pull out the plate and tokens that you want that are visible to the owner. They solely exist for fast set up for timed tournaments; they are bad for space efficiency or bang for buck. And you definitely would not want to fall over or crash you bike while carrying it, but it would be the most rigid solution that you can make yourself. To repeat these are not for protecting minis as a catastrophic spill would shatter the cases and their rails, but they provide the most rigid storage solution as the each model is effectively pinned to the tray by a 2 rails and are very fast to use if they are prepped for (your time is spent loading the trays and configuring them before the tourney)
here is an example of them www.kickstarter.com/projects/305446822/modular-army-transports
I do not know if they got them from this guy before his failed project; or if they made these as DIY projects
I am planning to base my 15mm on some Netherland 10 cent coins (former world coin collecter) that are nickel and magnets like them so I will have my siblings old art case and put a magnetic sheet (fridge magnet style) on the bottom so I can just pluck them off when needed.
Are those new GW cases any good? They look very cheap and flimsy compared to the old Citadel ones
Raven's Talon they are alright. They are durable enough. I have the skirmish case and it was good for my first case until I found battlefoam. Nothing has broke in it yet and I have been using off and on for three years.
cardboard box > foam on the sides > foam peanuts between figures. magnetize the spindly bits and keep them seperate from the figures.
thank you
I use some Plastic Containers, layer of bubble wrap, space marines, then more bubble wrap, and my brother uses a pistol case
Some of BattleFoam's stuff, especially the army/faction specific stuff, could be better. I bought the endless spell tray for my Nighthaunts and the only cells that fit right are the squares of leader/character models. The actual cut outs for the spells are WAY to tight, and in the case of the Knight of Shrouds, you'd have to cut the back of the cloak.
No thanks, rather just continue with the pluck-n-pull foam, but their MagaRacks look good.
I use KR cases as Battle foam is rather expensive. Although it looks great
You made reference to battlefoam, for my Zombicides for example I use cases from Feldherr. The are amazing. The laser cut foam is superbe, they have customs foams for different games, they propose also packs for different games. Example, for my Black Plague with wulfsburg and a lot of others extensions, with 2 cases at 60 euros each I put everything in. Look at @Clawtouchsgames on FB to make an idea.
For me the struggle, which has been exacerbated by Indomitus, is the extravagant poses. In my Tabletop Tyrant box I could store pretty much every space marine soldier with the exception of people with flag poles. Now, two of the assault Intercessors and four necron warriors fit in there. Which increases the amount going into the Citadel crusade box. I’m not buying anymore warhammer (flw) and I really don’t want to buy a third box