Thank you for the in-depth and honest review Alex! We've had a number of people say the same thing about board and how the numbers/grid stick out too much, so we'll be working with our artist to try to spruce that up a bit. As for the cards, we can't promise anything but we'll see if we can improve the layout/design of those as well. Lastly, as Gaël mentioned we did end up changing it to support 2-5 players after the prototype was printed, hence the confusion there. Thanks again for checking out the game!
Nice review with a lot of good information. I like the idea of the hidden player being the hunter as opposed to the standard roles for hidden movement games. I'm curious to see more on how that plays out.
The board would be a lot more interesting if the spaces and numbers were hidden until revealed by the flashlight overlay (filtering out certain wavelengths of light to reveal others).
Hey Alex, thank you for the video! The KS page says it is a 2-5 player game. So you were right. I guess the box is still in its prototype form, hence the different player count printed on it
You nailed it! That prototype was ordered way back in March, and we have since modified the rules to do exactly what Alex mentioned: in a 2-player game the investigator player controls two characters. We have separate scaling rules at 3 and 4 players where each player only controls 1 character, but you could always just control multiple if you wanted to simulate a 5-player game.
As always Alex, I appreciate your videos and coverage! I am looking into this one so this video has helped me. Also, I know this isn’t under your control, but I think it’s awesome that the creator is in your comments replying to people!
I would probably get this if I didn't already have Fury of Dracula, the Last Friday and Escape the Aliens from Outer Space. Plus awaiting KSs of Mind MGMT and Final Girl.
What is your favourite hidden movement game? Or do you have any recommendations I can look up? I don't have a game in this genre yet in my collection and am definetly interested.
Replay ability? Can the same scenario be played again and again and have different endings? Do different characters affect gameplay, IE Pandemic? Resale value? This is something that I originally started following you for. Will this game hold up in value or is it better to get it at retail?
Hey there, thanks for asking (and sorry for the delayed response)! I can't objectively answer the resale value question, but I can answer your other 2 questions! As for replayability, The Sawmill has 3 different escape routes (2 of which have variants) for a total of 5 potential end-game scenarios. All 5 of those escape routes have variable placement of the objective items, so there are over 13 different combinations of escape routes / item placement on The Sawmill. Add that in with the second map we recently unlocked, and you can effectively double that number :) Each character (both investigator and adversary) has different abilities that directly affect gameplay. There are currently 10 investigators in the base game and 2 in the Nightfall expansion, each of which has a unique minor and major ability. We are about to unlock a third adversary, and our first adversary (The Butcher) has 3 different attack cards and 6 different ability cards that you can mix and match each game. We expect similar numbers for the other two adversaries. The last thing I'll add is that both sides (investigator and adversary) can very easily affect the other side and force them to change up their strategy. Aside from the built-in replayability from the variety of scenarios, characters, items, etc., each game will play out differently based on how each side plays. Long story short - there is a HUGE amount of replayability :)
@@sophcerb thanks for your reply, it answered most of my question. The resale part was one of the reasons that I followed Alex. He'd always give his opinion on whether or not a game had any or much resale value.
Awesome review, I really was in need of this video. I definetly love the concept and the core mechanic "dead by daylight"ish, but the low design in the cards are really discouraging me. This game has lots of potential to improve thematically in its graphics
Thanks for the feedback! We've heard it loud and clear on the cards and are planning on working with our graphic designer to change up those designs. That's not something we expect to be able to finish before the Kickstarter ends (since that's approaching very quickly), but we're working on it!
Thinking about getting it as it feels better than Dead By Daylight, but I'm disappointed by the lack of Adversaries as the unlocks and expansion add more investigators but only one adversary so far (+ cult at 145k)
The very first stretch goal was another adversary (The Insatiable Horror) so there will be at least three in the base game once we unlock The Cult. Keep in mind each adversary has a variety of attack and ability cards that each promote different playstyles, and each adversary will be quite different from the others. Hope that helps clarify, but feel free to let me know if you have any other questions!
Great question! Each adversary will have a different win condition, but the goal is to not have players sitting around doing nothing. In the case of The Butcher, he wins if any investigator dies so the investigators have to work together very closely to win the game. Other adversaries may (for example) "convert" investigators instead of killing them.
How does this game compare to Last Friday? The theme, the "one vs many" and hidden movement mechanics are present in both games, which one is the better one would you say?
Thanks for the feedback! We've had lots of discussions (and gotten lots of feedback) on the map. It really comes down to functionality vs. presentation - there are a number of reasons we went with the current design since it makes it much easier to communicate what spaces you have line-of-sight to, where items are, which spaces are lit up by the computers, etc. That said, we're still looking into ways we could potentially make it look better without affecting functionality. I can't promise we'll be making any major changes, but it's definitely something we're mindful of. As for the fiddly part, we're working on eliminating some of the clutter by reducing the number of tokens and one-off scenarios. Again, I can't promise any groundbreaking changes but we're doing what we can to streamline some areas of the game.
Thank you for the in-depth and honest review Alex! We've had a number of people say the same thing about board and how the numbers/grid stick out too much, so we'll be working with our artist to try to spruce that up a bit. As for the cards, we can't promise anything but we'll see if we can improve the layout/design of those as well.
Lastly, as Gaël mentioned we did end up changing it to support 2-5 players after the prototype was printed, hence the confusion there. Thanks again for checking out the game!
Awesome, and yeah, I had even played the game at 2, and mid review got thrown off by seeing the box say 3 :)
Nice review with a lot of good information. I like the idea of the hidden player being the hunter as opposed to the standard roles for hidden movement games. I'm curious to see more on how that plays out.
The board would be a lot more interesting if the spaces and numbers were hidden until revealed by the flashlight overlay (filtering out certain wavelengths of light to reveal others).
That could be fascinating :)
Hey Alex, thank you for the video!
The KS page says it is a 2-5 player game. So you were right. I guess the box is still in its prototype form, hence the different player count printed on it
You nailed it! That prototype was ordered way back in March, and we have since modified the rules to do exactly what Alex mentioned: in a 2-player game the investigator player controls two characters.
We have separate scaling rules at 3 and 4 players where each player only controls 1 character, but you could always just control multiple if you wanted to simulate a 5-player game.
As always Alex, I appreciate your videos and coverage! I am looking into this one so this video has helped me. Also, I know this isn’t under your control, but I think it’s awesome that the creator is in your comments replying to people!
Yes it is :)
Thank you! We're doing our best to keep track of all the comments and responses since we've been getting lots of good feedback :)
I think I'm gonna get this. I don't have enough spooky games. And the theme looks like it comes thru enough to hook my game group.
I would probably get this if I didn't already have Fury of Dracula, the Last Friday and Escape the Aliens from Outer Space. Plus awaiting KSs of Mind MGMT and Final Girl.
What is your favourite hidden movement game? Or do you have any recommendations I can look up? I don't have a game in this genre yet in my collection and am definetly interested.
Replay ability? Can the same scenario be played again and again and have different endings?
Do different characters affect gameplay, IE Pandemic?
Resale value? This is something that I originally started following you for. Will this game hold up in value or is it better to get it at retail?
Hey there, thanks for asking (and sorry for the delayed response)! I can't objectively answer the resale value question, but I can answer your other 2 questions!
As for replayability, The Sawmill has 3 different escape routes (2 of which have variants) for a total of 5 potential end-game scenarios. All 5 of those escape routes have variable placement of the objective items, so there are over 13 different combinations of escape routes / item placement on The Sawmill. Add that in with the second map we recently unlocked, and you can effectively double that number :)
Each character (both investigator and adversary) has different abilities that directly affect gameplay. There are currently 10 investigators in the base game and 2 in the Nightfall expansion, each of which has a unique minor and major ability. We are about to unlock a third adversary, and our first adversary (The Butcher) has 3 different attack cards and 6 different ability cards that you can mix and match each game. We expect similar numbers for the other two adversaries.
The last thing I'll add is that both sides (investigator and adversary) can very easily affect the other side and force them to change up their strategy. Aside from the built-in replayability from the variety of scenarios, characters, items, etc., each game will play out differently based on how each side plays. Long story short - there is a HUGE amount of replayability :)
@@sophcerb thanks for your reply, it answered most of my question.
The resale part was one of the reasons that I followed Alex. He'd always give his opinion on whether or not a game had any or much resale value.
@@BbBb-zx6sx we'd actually be interested in hearing his thoughts as well, that's definitely a nice thing to know before backing/purchasing a game!
Awesome review, I really was in need of this video. I definetly love the concept and the core mechanic "dead by daylight"ish, but the low design in the cards are really discouraging me. This game has lots of potential to improve thematically in its graphics
Thanks for the feedback! We've heard it loud and clear on the cards and are planning on working with our graphic designer to change up those designs. That's not something we expect to be able to finish before the Kickstarter ends (since that's approaching very quickly), but we're working on it!
Thinking about getting it as it feels better than Dead By Daylight, but I'm disappointed by the lack of Adversaries as the unlocks and expansion add more investigators but only one adversary so far (+ cult at 145k)
The very first stretch goal was another adversary (The Insatiable Horror) so there will be at least three in the base game once we unlock The Cult. Keep in mind each adversary has a variety of attack and ability cards that each promote different playstyles, and each adversary will be quite different from the others. Hope that helps clarify, but feel free to let me know if you have any other questions!
If the players are being hunted down, how does the game deal with player elimination?
Great question! Each adversary will have a different win condition, but the goal is to not have players sitting around doing nothing.
In the case of The Butcher, he wins if any investigator dies so the investigators have to work together very closely to win the game. Other adversaries may (for example) "convert" investigators instead of killing them.
@@sophcerb Thanks
How does this game compare to Last Friday? The theme, the "one vs many" and hidden movement mechanics are present in both games, which one is the better one would you say?
Interesting, I never played last Friday
Ty for the video!
Always :-)
Number of games i've backed because of you... 9
Great idea. Horrible map. And too fiddly overall.
Thanks for the feedback! We've had lots of discussions (and gotten lots of feedback) on the map. It really comes down to functionality vs. presentation - there are a number of reasons we went with the current design since it makes it much easier to communicate what spaces you have line-of-sight to, where items are, which spaces are lit up by the computers, etc.
That said, we're still looking into ways we could potentially make it look better without affecting functionality. I can't promise we'll be making any major changes, but it's definitely something we're mindful of.
As for the fiddly part, we're working on eliminating some of the clutter by reducing the number of tokens and one-off scenarios. Again, I can't promise any groundbreaking changes but we're doing what we can to streamline some areas of the game.
Talk too fast, dude. Take a breath.