I discovered Trench crusade a few days ago because of this shit. I basically fell in love with the setting immediately, and I really hope that they don't kill it in it's cradle.
Gotta say, idk if people know about De Genesis, as far I remember is not Grimdark (?) like WH40k or Trench Crusade but still a really interesting lore behind, also no woke bullshit behind as far I know...
Yeah it’s interesting, I think the internet is responsible for making a platform where insane people can congregate all day and night to become shadow revolutionaries, without having to leave the comfort of their own home and trigger their anxiety.
@@hochdieanarchie At least for the sake of "civil conversation" you do need moderation rules that restrict speech somewhat. Obviously insults, slurs, offensive slang for the sake of offense... I understand that stuff. You don't want to enter a channel and see the n-word plastered wall to wall. Moderators do need and should be getting regular reality checks though. "Work on the mod staff for a week, work in PR and Marketting next week, and flip flop." Anything to keep them out of the permanent "King of the Castle" role as moderator
Well from my experience things were going alright until today -_- was really enjoying the lore chats and seeing the creative side of the miniature kitbashing scene.
This is such a stupidly easy fix: 1) The Trench Crusade team opens their own dedicated Discord server 2) Make a "NO POLITICS!" rule 3) Enforce that rule equally That's it. There's still a good amount of hype for the game around even after the recent dustup with the 28 Mag Discord, and a lot of people who are dropping interest in the game (myself included) will happily come back and help make the game a success if that simple solution is implemented. Hell, I have half a mind to do it myself. Discord servers are free to set up, after all. But every day this stays unaddressed is another day the divide grows bigger and the changes of the same being a success get smaller and smaller. The tabletop wargame market is still very niche and still dominated by GW; pissing away potential customers like this won't magically make the game succeed.
If people were adults, they could have a "politics" section where people who wanted to argue about that stuff could go. Instead, "woke" individuals will witchhunt for anyone who is right wing, even if they aren't forcing their beliefs on anyone else.
If they want their child DOA then let them kill it. It is absurd beyond reason to shun what could be 50-60% of your market based on emotions alone. Glad they played that card now instead of doing a bait and switch, but sooner or later they will realize that those they pander to cannot support their interests and will lose their own interest in the hobby once it can't be used for internet points on reddit.
@@robinnewhouse1563 yes everyone who doesn't like woke identity politics, and intersectional socialism is a racist. How very progressive of you comrade.
When old 4Chan ran the internet, this shit was never a problem. You could be left or right and still enjoy games and fandoms. Not anymore. They kill whatever they touch.
Im sad that they behaved in such a way. It killed my interest in the game and world. I think ill take the basic idea and maybe write a book set in a similar setting. If i ever do get something together, i will keep all of this political bullshit out of it.
same thing for me regarding battletech. they can do whatever goofy bullshit they want, but I'm just going to make my own version of it without transhit
Keep in mind that if you are creating an IP based on real world events/groups, it is very difficult to keep political implications out of it. I believe that is where the creators of Trench Crusade have gone wrong. They included real world factions like the Catholic Church and Islam. It is easy to accidentally include negative implications about people's ethnicity, sacred beliefs, or immutable characteristics. When that happens, it is the creator who has inserted politics, not their critics.
I tried to join their discord and was wondering why I couldn't join? Know I know. Thank you, Weezy! Edit: As someone who's Hispanic, I would have loved to see an Aztec warband from hell. Especially if you know what the Aztecs themselves were capable of. A shame we'll probably never see that happen.
Completely agreed, I would have also enjoyed a celtic heretical legion for similar reasons. It's just a shame that creatives are constrained by modern politics from making some truly gnarly stuff.
Uhm akshually how dare you say the Aztecs weren't innocent victims of the patriarchal, genocidal, imperialist evil white Spaniards. Surely the Aztecs NEVER committed any evil deeds like human sacrifice, genocides, slavery ect. 🤓☝️
I'm a Christian and as a Christian, I got some skin in the game. You can't say "no politics" because "no politics" really is a catch all term which includes religion. In Trench Crusade we know that God is real. The Abrahamic God is real and Jesus Christ is God. God literally talks to Christians. The timeline diverges in the 12th century AD with the Templars becoming heretics, meaning that everything before that: the Saints and canonical writings of the Church, Jesus Christ, Isaiah, David, Moses, Abraham etc. is all still around and valid Church teachings. I do not know why people on the left would be into this game. I can point out passages in the Old Testament, New Testament, there are passages in the Quran that you can't just gloss over and ignore for this game, because it is an integral part to the game. Unrepentant sinners in this are part of hells armies. What does this mean for people in the real world? It means a lot of the time, their personal beliefs aren't flexible enough to be fixed to anything outside of the forces of hell. It truly is baffling why anyone who can't respect that fact and get into the game regardless, would in fact still be into this game
''I do not know why people on the left would be into this game. I can point out passages in the Old Testament, New Testament, there are passages in the Quran that you can't just gloss over and ignore for this game, because it is an integral part to the game. '' Because the setting is cool and one doesn't need to be part of one camp or another to think this?
@@Sara3346 well I wouldn't change anything, I like the setting they laid out, even as a Christian, they don't make Christendom look very flattering. But they've already made it inherently political by starting off with the inclusion of real world Abrahamic religions, so you couldn't just ignore the prior 12 centuries of religious works, the Bible, Quran, Talmud and Torah are already established and apart of the lore so there's only so much that you can change. I'm not saying there isn't a place for hobbyists with real world opposing views, but they'll be found in the Heretic Legions. So if you want to make lore for a New Antioch warband that funds their efforts through usury, well you can't because usury is not allowed for Christians, especially when it involves other Christians, but a warband from the Heretic Legions could
To be honest, I'm already out I can jump to, so at this point I'm along the same lines with my own father on this one who actually got me into miniature stuff to begin with, where I'm just tired of constantly having to Hope and constantly having to guess if a business has gone woke or not. So for me, I am just going to go to camping, RC stuff, and in general just being outside
28 mag has some good conversions in it, but so does a pizza topped with rusty nails still have pepperoni underneath. This will become a great example of what super left politics does to a fledgling game, kills it very quickly.
Giving money to people that hates you are the ultimate NPC Consoomer move, Redditor tier. Have some sense of self worth, some shred of dignity and stop throwing money at the crazies.
Wait and see but the devs need to get their heads out of their 4th point of contact and stop this trainwreck. I am all for devs ignoring the culture war but midwits are doing it in their name and harming the IP.
As someone on the progressive side of things, authoritarianism is a bad look for the creator of a product that needs an audience. It's bad when the right does it, it's bad when the left does it.
Dude, you know why I like Pathfinder 2e? Because even if they're progs in their personal beliefs, they don't do that with their fanbase. They provide a setting that has something in it for everyone, and are just being decent to people. They want people to enjoy their game, people want to enjoy their game. They saw what WotC were doing & decided they didn't want any of that. I'm not going to use pronouns in my bio, I'm not that kind of person. But I'm not a complete coward who'd pull crap like 28Mag did either. Or be needlessly combative in general.
I dont want to say the TC crew are woke, but its worrisome they are standing by 28 without publicly looking into the issue. It comes off as they support them and what they have done. Now if there is internal stuff going on, I get it, but publicly telling people "hey we are gonna look into this" would appease everyone.
Man. I live in a 98% Catholic country, with me myself being a Catholic since birth and it would've been cool to have my friends join me in the tabletop community and share our love for God and Grimdark by this game. Atleast it shot itself in the foot and revealed its true face before we could be invested too much.
I hate the word vibes so so so damn much but on the other hand i found this channel and love the way you present your thoughts and carry yourself. liked and subbed. have a good night Sir!
@@RussellWilliams736 Don't you legally have provide a means to provide to a way to refund people on a faulty product or scam, as Kickstarter has done in the past? If so then Kickstarter itself could find itself in deep legal trouble it's not careful.
Yeah if that's the culture they'll maintain I'm out also. It seems very interesting and am open to spending time with this game, but why am I going to support a company that hates me?
That's not disagreeing - everyone agrees those people should be banned, and that there should be basic rules that should be followed in any public server or setting.
And the wokes expect you to say something like this. It means you won't fight them & therefore you'll always lose. To summarize this 18 min vid. Woke mod went on a ban spree & locked down the server. The woke mod is not directly related to the game dev.
Well, I'll have fun printing my own models and following along in the background as they update rules and whatnot I guess. Until they get their house in order anyway.
Progressives making a game based on heavily religious ideologies, then kicking out people who believe in religious ideologies. Unfortunately, since i just found out about this game and instantly loved the lore, just to find that they are not interested in my money. Oh, well.
sad that y'all let this stuff live rent free in your heads. If you can't accept that the world isn't gonna put up with bigots, maybe you need to change your world view.
Speaking of rent free, imagine believing the 99% of humanity that don't agree with your specific worldview (including tiny variations) makes someone a bigot that should be banned for all communities and public discourse.
So many people screaming WOKE at a discord mod hissy fit. People need to go outside, touch grass, and sit down and wargame with real people instead of whatever this sage of nonsense is
Remember when people could distinguish real life from fiction? What did we use to call it again? Oh yes, being an adult! Anyone remember that? Growing up and being an adult? You dont like something, you found something else to enjoy. Judging people on their character rather than childishly judging on skin colour or religion or sexual preferences. No? Just me? Ok 🤦♂️
So you knew this stuff about them but went looking for the fight. It’s their space. They can do with it what they want. You keep pointing out their politics but you are making it very clear it’s not your politics and that was a problem for you.
he wasn't prattling on about how it wasn't his politics that he wanted in there. he was literally saying that he wanted a setting that was A-political and clear from any nazi or woke or whatever else BS. that is what he is saying. his opinion is nothing about his personal politics and all about the fact that other people have imposed their own politics on something that he enjoyed and from the looks of it have made it much more unpopular and less people will touch said thing because of that. The entire point was stop putting your personal politics label onto shit and then telling everyone else to get stuffed because they are wrong and you are right when people tell you to cut it out.
He says multiple times that he doesn't care what their politics are, just that perhaps you shouldn't ban people for merely existing while having a different worldview from you (while agreeing that people who break actual normal rules should obviously be banned).
Are you sure Joan of Arc wasn't Trans? One of the reasons she was put on trial was her insistence on dressing like a male. Maybe not the best example for you to use. ;-)
The developers of this game made a decision to partner with 28 mag, let them suffer the consequences of their decision. Don't give money to people who hate you.
Bruh thats so lame i was just getting into the lore 😂, it seems that GW is only the owner of the table top monopoly because they are the only ones that where able to hold it together long enough to profit and learn to not always take a dumby where they eat
It's an infinitely stupid game to say "you can't define 'woke'" or "you can't define 'critical race theory.'" Of course we can define them-and even those who can't immediately summon the words have an intuitive understanding of what those phrases mean. Reddit-tier sophistry. “Woke” is shorthand for wokeness or wokeism. Wokeness and wokeism are the belief that: (1) all of society is currently and intentionally structured to oppress; (2) all gaps in performance between large groups illustrate this; and (3) the solution is “equity”-proportional representation without regards to performance and a redistribution of resources.
"Even republicans buy sneakers too" -Michel Jordan As a company, your main objective should be that your product reaches the largest audience possible. Pandering to a minute set of people that are not interested in your product but only use it as a political battleground should spell disaster. Why annihilate any potential new costumers just because don't follow a certain ideology?
No it shouldn't. This isn't a sneaker company. Sneaker customers do not need to interact with each other in other for a sneaker business to work. Its a game that needs a community. There is a reason why I don't play historical games where I live. It isn't that I don't like painting tanks. Thats great fun. What I don't like is listening to far right banter while playing against an army with some obvious dog whistles in it. Its also not a public service. This game is a someone passion project. Peaple have put years of their spare time into it. So why wouldn't they want to shape the community to those they want to play against. I sure would, I would be way blunter. No way that I would spend years of work into a game that is now played by peaple that I don't enjoy playing against.
A company should absolutely not throw away their morals to pander to as many people as possible. It's more than enough to make something that they like, for the people that they like. If they can have enough to continue making the thing that they want to then that's all that they need to do. Not everything should be about making millions of dollars and becoming a massive thing.
Given the devs saying they support the mods, I think it IS their fault. Accomplices at best, part of it at worst. 28 Mag is one of those "Inq28" spinoffs, judging by the list of games you showed on it. They're all the same sort of kitbash-crazy "Blanchitsu" people who are almost all progressives and want to do weird things with miniatures.
Hate to say this, but if games developers pull this punish them as Sony was for Helldivers. Boycotts and bad reviews, if it kills Trench Crusade that is a pity but these people need to learn who their audience is and that they shouldn't ignore the audience concerns.
Trench crusade will never be apolitical because the entire game is based on an actual religion, Catholicism, and uses a lot of its imagery. If you want an apolitical game than make a fantasy world detached from real world religion and politics.
It is a world invaded by hell and is defended by ww1 era christians and muslims. The irl politics wouldnt fit into it. But ofc the community will have insufferable people because its about religious zealots fighting satanic zealots in trench pilgrimages...
You can make any setting apolitical where it doesn't matter which political topics you put into it. The point is being faithful about what you take and implement it from an objective point. The overarching narrative should never take a side and the creatos should always have in mind that what they do is just a vessel. The biggest issue with approaching stuff with the mindest of your comment would make everything politically, because nothing you take can from the beginning be apolitical.
I found this game just today and decided to watch this video on it. I hope if nothing else seeing a project like this get this reaction before it gets off the ground will convince creative types to be more carefull about who they get in bed with. The rot sets in very fast nowadays, but people have gotten even better at sniffing it out
separate the game from the people around it do you like the game? play it do you not like a group of people playing it? play it with someone else does one group that like the game not share your policital views? who the fuck cares. play the game or dont play the game
It's a shame that this only came onto my radar because of the controversy but I must admit from the factions currently available they will capitulate to modern political mobbing and would not be something I support, the amount of overt heavenly aid given to the Iron Sultanate reeks of modern day inclusion politics, would have been much more interesting to have a byzantine faction instead of a rum alchemical faction. Also the amount of overt blasphemy with Jurassic parking Jesus is just all kinds of weird. Could have used martyrs for the same concept and given it a more badass instead of a heretical approach.
Let’s host a game that features a lot of heavy religious themes then get mad when people who are politically more right wing, which tend to be more socially conservative/religious, get interested in a game with religious themes
Maybe it is time to write alternative lore for games and do not care so much for the official ones. For example the Templars could have been communists and the demon worshippers too. They never respect our lore so why should we respect theirs? People can make their own Discords without those disgusting people.
They don't have a problem, it's their discord, their game, they choose to Wich segments of the community they support, stop whining and crying for things you can't control, this is simple, you just need to create your own setting with all the conservative, misogynism and the things you support and for the community you want, stop trying to make te developers to think like you do,just grow up and accept that these setting don't belong to any of you
Hahahaha this is some clown crap you are shitting out. 28 Mag caused alot of damage for no reason will it do well sure thing, they decided to ban people for asking questions and when they decided to be political over apolitical and you just make up what you think others are and think. Keep a WW1 weird dark fantasy just that 🤣
The Inq 28 community (and by extension, 28 Mag) take their games very seriously. The role of Inquisition extends into real life too. This round of Discord shenanigans isn't the first, and it certainly won't be the last. They are an absolutely cancerous community.
I enjoyed your analysis. You come off as neutral. As wargamers there should be an obvious solution to politics. Fair rules applied to everyone and have fun crushing your opponent.
I just want Mike and the TC team to just come out and say if it doesnt have to do with Paladins, Mutant Artillery Batteries, or the 4th Circle of Hell then take it somewhere else. I'm a pretty hard right guy and i never want to hear about politics when it comes to my hobbies, just lore.
Still very hyped about Trench Crusade. And while their Twitter response is not ideal in its wording, I think they just want to distance themselves from the drama. Basically, it amounts to, " They banned people and we do not really want to discuss any of that because we want to talk about our game here and not discord politics." Just my 2 cents.
"Headcanon is headcanon; kitbashes are kitbashes, di what you do" wholesome Andrew Tate strikes again. I appreciate how someone can genuinely hold this belief but be critical of how these things are handled within an IP. There is a nuance to everything, but plenty of folks (people who ban based on bad vibes aka misaligned beliefs) don't (won't) understand and it shows.
I'm very astonished, because the woke could sit silent so long. I'm also for settings which aren't mentioned current politics (though I know not even one which is clearly supporting something right or maybe even in the center). And game itself looks more like old editions of Warhammer. There was nothing woke in it and usually woke will signalize its presence very clearly and fast. So I have a though... maybe they know that woke doesn't sell. Because they not wanting to make something political is beyond me.
@@Corsharkgaming Hahaha, preaching inclusion and calling someone subhuman for opinions. Yours are the only ones that need be respected, right? It's hilarious that leftists are so up their own asses but still can't smell their own shit.
They have now announced a new discord run by their own admin team. So that's something. Not a great start but let's hope they can keep the bloody thing a-political.. Because this setting deserves to be brought to fruition.. And, I did see an admin on the Facebook warn a very left (or at least read that way-talking about marginalized groups etc) fella and someone else I assume to be of the same persuasion about targeting individuals in comments. So that may be of some encouragement..
The setting as in seems inherently the opposite of apolitical, starting to think that people use that word to mean 'not including things that alienate me/disagree with me.'
The difference is within the public discourse/community and within the game. If you discuss WW2, do you have to be a nahtsee or a commie? Of course not. It ought to be the same with games and communities such as this game's.
Curious to see where this goes. I sent TC a direct email asking if they were going to keep the politics outta the game and lore. Hope I get a response as this Lore is crack for all of us devout Christians... It is literally our thing.
The creators came out saying that the Crusaders fighting against the literal forces of Hell "aren't necessarily the good guys". Made me lose interest entirely.
So, you want to keep politics out of a game which is: a. an alternate history b. based on the First Crusade c. and has heavy religious elements and various factions? This setting, by its very nature and subject matter, is highly political. Trying to remove "politics" is not only not very feasible, but would actively make the game's setting worse. Multiple flawed factions are far better than just "good guy" and "bad guy" factions, especially in non-historical wargames.
@@blockyuniverseproductions6587 Having multiple flawed factions is one thing, but when you are fighting against literal demons from Hell sent by Satan, you're the good guys. Also the Crusades were an ugly time because war is inherently ugly, but they were also a defensive response against the aggressions of Muslim invaders in to Christian land.
I discovered Trench crusade a few days ago because of this shit. I basically fell in love with the setting immediately, and I really hope that they don't kill it in it's cradle.
Didn’t you what the video?
It's dead, Jim.
yeah its so joever for Trench Crusade...
I discovered it literally 1 hour ago.
Gotta say, idk if people know about De Genesis, as far I remember is not Grimdark (?) like WH40k or Trench Crusade but still a really interesting lore behind, also no woke bullshit behind as far I know...
I long for the day that the internet dies and these petty tyrants lose their imagined kingdoms.
Yeah it’s interesting, I think the internet is responsible for making a platform where insane people can congregate all day and night to become shadow revolutionaries, without having to leave the comfort of their own home and trigger their anxiety.
I yearn for that day too.
Wouldn't that mean this guy dies as well?
@@rickyl3136 a worthy sacrifice. MAD.
internet made it easier but it's not the cause.
Guess I was correct in my saying: "The Discord will hurt the Game"
They always do, sadly.
I've yet to find a official discord for anything that isn't far left moderated at the least.
@@hochdieanarchie At least for the sake of "civil conversation" you do need moderation rules that restrict speech somewhat. Obviously insults, slurs, offensive slang for the sake of offense... I understand that stuff. You don't want to enter a channel and see the n-word plastered wall to wall. Moderators do need and should be getting regular reality checks though. "Work on the mod staff for a week, work in PR and Marketting next week, and flip flop." Anything to keep them out of the permanent "King of the Castle" role as moderator
Well from my experience things were going alright until today -_- was really enjoying the lore chats and seeing the creative side of the miniature kitbashing scene.
@@ChrisBri77on nah they actively seek out ppl who disagree with them. And never apply no politics rules equally.
@@hochdieanarchie the only one I'm in is the Conquest discord and it's been alright, but tbh I'm only in there for the gallery and announcements.
Community managers again
This is such a stupidly easy fix:
1) The Trench Crusade team opens their own dedicated Discord server
2) Make a "NO POLITICS!" rule
3) Enforce that rule equally
That's it. There's still a good amount of hype for the game around even after the recent dustup with the 28 Mag Discord, and a lot of people who are dropping interest in the game (myself included) will happily come back and help make the game a success if that simple solution is implemented. Hell, I have half a mind to do it myself. Discord servers are free to set up, after all.
But every day this stays unaddressed is another day the divide grows bigger and the changes of the same being a success get smaller and smaller. The tabletop wargame market is still very niche and still dominated by GW; pissing away potential customers like this won't magically make the game succeed.
They failed to keep it apolitical or neutral. It's always one sided.
If people were adults, they could have a "politics" section where people who wanted to argue about that stuff could go. Instead, "woke" individuals will witchhunt for anyone who is right wing, even if they aren't forcing their beliefs on anyone else.
If they want their child DOA then let them kill it. It is absurd beyond reason to shun what could be 50-60% of your market based on emotions alone. Glad they played that card now instead of doing a bait and switch, but sooner or later they will realize that those they pander to cannot support their interests and will lose their own interest in the hobby once it can't be used for internet points on reddit.
Glad racist are mad and not interested in this cool looking game, cry harder
You are not 50-60% of their market.
Most people are normal and don't care about people crying about wokenes and women in Games
@@robinnewhouse1563 yes everyone who doesn't like woke identity politics, and intersectional socialism is a racist. How very progressive of you comrade.
@@johpfit760 most normal people see wokies as a cult of weirdos.
@@robinnewhouse1563 who's crying?
When old 4Chan ran the internet, this shit was never a problem. You could be left or right and still enjoy games and fandoms. Not anymore. They kill whatever they touch.
Im sad that they behaved in such a way. It killed my interest in the game and world. I think ill take the basic idea and maybe write a book set in a similar setting. If i ever do get something together, i will keep all of this political bullshit out of it.
same thing for me regarding battletech. they can do whatever goofy bullshit they want, but I'm just going to make my own version of it without transhit
You are going to keep the political bullshit out of a book about World War 1? Are your, perchance, a fucking moron? lol
Keep in mind that if you are creating an IP based on real world events/groups, it is very difficult to keep political implications out of it.
I believe that is where the creators of Trench Crusade have gone wrong.
They included real world factions like the Catholic Church and Islam.
It is easy to accidentally include negative implications about people's ethnicity, sacred beliefs, or immutable characteristics. When that happens, it is the creator who has inserted politics, not their critics.
Yes bro. I'd read that book for sure. The idea of this universe is so badass
@@Caniswalensis When people say keep politics out of it. They mean keep real world politics out of it. Not keep that universes politics out of it.
I tried to join their discord and was wondering why I couldn't join? Know I know. Thank you, Weezy!
Edit: As someone who's Hispanic, I would have loved to see an Aztec warband from hell. Especially if you know what the Aztecs themselves were capable of. A shame we'll probably never see that happen.
Hey, make them yourself? :D
@FullMetalHamster666 Holy crap, you're right! It's time for a 3d printer!
@@Inquisitor_Lelouch dude I was thinking the same thing hope you go through with the idea
Completely agreed, I would have also enjoyed a celtic heretical legion for similar reasons. It's just a shame that creatives are constrained by modern politics from making some truly gnarly stuff.
Uhm akshually how dare you say the Aztecs weren't innocent victims of the patriarchal, genocidal, imperialist evil white Spaniards.
Surely the Aztecs NEVER committed any evil deeds like human sacrifice, genocides, slavery ect. 🤓☝️
i just discovered this game an hour a go... and is fucking over xD bruh.
this game had the potential and the lore.
the game is ruined cuz discord drama?
Me to lol
@@atlantah5496It's over because the creators agreed with the mods
I'm a Christian and as a Christian, I got some skin in the game. You can't say "no politics" because "no politics" really is a catch all term which includes religion. In Trench Crusade we know that God is real. The Abrahamic God is real and Jesus Christ is God. God literally talks to Christians. The timeline diverges in the 12th century AD with the Templars becoming heretics, meaning that everything before that: the Saints and canonical writings of the Church, Jesus Christ, Isaiah, David, Moses, Abraham etc. is all still around and valid Church teachings.
I do not know why people on the left would be into this game. I can point out passages in the Old Testament, New Testament, there are passages in the Quran that you can't just gloss over and ignore for this game, because it is an integral part to the game. Unrepentant sinners in this are part of hells armies. What does this mean for people in the real world? It means a lot of the time, their personal beliefs aren't flexible enough to be fixed to anything outside of the forces of hell.
It truly is baffling why anyone who can't respect that fact and get into the game regardless, would in fact still be into this game
It’s not about the game. It’s about not allowing any spaces to exist that are not full of woke.
''I do not know why people on the left would be into this game. I can point out passages in the Old Testament, New Testament, there are passages in the Quran that you can't just gloss over and ignore for this game, because it is an integral part to the game. ''
Because the setting is cool and one doesn't need to be part of one camp or another to think this?
@@Sara3346 Yeh but all they do is set up camp. Everything that is the. Is super imposed over the setting to its detriment
@@gabrielseth5142 If it's to it's detriment, how would you write it? I'm now way more confused than when I started.
@@Sara3346 well I wouldn't change anything, I like the setting they laid out, even as a Christian, they don't make Christendom look very flattering. But they've already made it inherently political by starting off with the inclusion of real world Abrahamic religions, so you couldn't just ignore the prior 12 centuries of religious works, the Bible, Quran, Talmud and Torah are already established and apart of the lore so there's only so much that you can change.
I'm not saying there isn't a place for hobbyists with real world opposing views, but they'll be found in the Heretic Legions. So if you want to make lore for a New Antioch warband that funds their efforts through usury, well you can't because usury is not allowed for Christians, especially when it involves other Christians, but a warband from the Heretic Legions could
To be honest, I'm already out I can jump to, so at this point I'm along the same lines with my own father on this one who actually got me into miniature stuff to begin with, where I'm just tired of constantly having to Hope and constantly having to guess if a business has gone woke or not.
So for me, I am just going to go to camping, RC stuff, and in general just being outside
28 mag has some good conversions in it, but so does a pizza topped with rusty nails still have pepperoni underneath. This will become a great example of what super left politics does to a fledgling game, kills it very quickly.
Giving money to people that hates you are the ultimate NPC Consoomer move, Redditor tier.
Have some sense of self worth, some shred of dignity and stop throwing money at the crazies.
Wait and see but the devs need to get their heads out of their 4th point of contact and stop this trainwreck. I am all for devs ignoring the culture war but midwits are doing it in their name and harming the IP.
As someone on the progressive side of things, authoritarianism is a bad look for the creator of a product that needs an audience. It's bad when the right does it, it's bad when the left does it.
Its literally the only thing the left ever does lol, nobody would go along with your freak shit if you didnt force it on people
Dude, you know why I like Pathfinder 2e? Because even if they're progs in their personal beliefs, they don't do that with their fanbase. They provide a setting that has something in it for everyone, and are just being decent to people. They want people to enjoy their game, people want to enjoy their game. They saw what WotC were doing & decided they didn't want any of that.
I'm not going to use pronouns in my bio, I'm not that kind of person. But I'm not a complete coward who'd pull crap like 28Mag did either. Or be needlessly combative in general.
Got interested in this game a few mins ago, and wanted to support monetarily. Thanks for saving me money.
why western countries give these people so much power?
Because the most wealthy companies incentivise them to.
They also wiped 24-48 hours of all messages from all channels. I left the discord, it's not for me.
I dont want to say the TC crew are woke, but its worrisome they are standing by 28 without publicly looking into the issue. It comes off as they support them and what they have done. Now if there is internal stuff going on, I get it, but publicly telling people "hey we are gonna look into this" would appease everyone.
Let them have it, so we see how much “better” it’ll get
Lmao
Man. I live in a 98% Catholic country, with me myself being a Catholic since birth and it would've been cool to have my friends join me in the tabletop community and share our love for God and Grimdark by this game.
Atleast it shot itself in the foot and revealed its true face before we could be invested too much.
"Im so tradcath, I wan't to play a game were soldiers collect the bloody tears of jesus-christ's failed clone and go die in a war against the devil"
I’m at the edge of my seat waiting to see what happens. As of now I won’t be backing shit on kickstarter. Until they make it clear they are apolitical
I hate the word vibes so so so damn much but on the other hand i found this channel and love the way you present your thoughts and carry yourself. liked and subbed. have a good night Sir!
The only way I see the devs salvaging this is to just make their own discord so the 28 people can’t call the shots.
If I backed the kickstarted I'd be pulling the funding.
People have said u can't get a refund.
@@loner9832 ithought it's kickstarter campaign was still rinning
@@RussellWilliams736 Don't you legally have provide a means to provide to a way to refund people on a faulty product or scam, as Kickstarter has done in the past?
If so then Kickstarter itself could find itself in deep legal trouble it's not careful.
Yeah if that's the culture they'll maintain I'm out also. It seems very interesting and am open to spending time with this game, but why am I going to support a company that hates me?
I hate to disagree with you but there were people on the discord who were downright racists and maybe even phobic
That's not disagreeing - everyone agrees those people should be banned, and that there should be basic rules that should be followed in any public server or setting.
Damn, couldn’t even think of Tuomas Pirinen’s name. 😔
explains why I couldn't join the discord yesterday.
It's super unfortunate that TC left the fate of their IP in the hands of some egotistical discord mods. They had a good thing going for them. 🤷♀
Fun fact, STL files of all Trench Crusade's current models have already leaked...
Amen, brother.
This is why I joined an UNOFFICIAL discord instead of the 28 MAG one. In all out honestly this is getting depressing as hell
I just lost interest now. That being said, LONG LIVE TURNIP 28 for keeping it fun and apolitical ;)
Gotta disagree on the space lasers. May the schwartz be with you
I thought gatekeeping was good though?
Wait... they have space lasers now? 😮
And the wokes expect you to say something like this. It means you won't fight them & therefore you'll always lose.
To summarize this 18 min vid. Woke mod went on a ban spree & locked down the server. The woke mod is not directly related to the game dev.
Politics literally ruins everything good
Well, I'll have fun printing my own models and following along in the background as they update rules and whatnot I guess. Until they get their house in order anyway.
Progressives making a game based on heavily religious ideologies, then kicking out people who believe in religious ideologies. Unfortunately, since i just found out about this game and instantly loved the lore, just to find that they are not interested in my money. Oh, well.
Lmao
Wow, just found the game about 30 mins ago and now it’s dead 😂😂😂
Actually 28 Mag is for Inquisitor 28mm and Mordhiem which requires and encourages a great deal of kitbashing.
Grummz sent me to this channel. Subbed
40k, battletech, go woke go broke
I have change 40k for one page rules game system I hope OPR don't choose the woke path but it seems I am not in control for that.
Ill take "reasons discord is a shit platform" for 500 Alex.
sad that y'all let this stuff live rent free in your heads. If you can't accept that the world isn't gonna put up with bigots, maybe you need to change your world view.
Speaking of rent free, imagine believing the 99% of humanity that don't agree with your specific worldview (including tiny variations) makes someone a bigot that should be banned for all communities and public discourse.
Jeez I thought the outer circle was the most neckbeard TH-cam channel
Bruh grow up you adult men act like children when it comes to these things
Can’t wait to back this on kickstarter.
I don't need a discord to enjoy a game. Sounds like some people got their feelings hurt over nothing.
Rofl, it's always comical when conservatives pretend they're not obsessed with identity politics.
So many people screaming WOKE at a discord mod hissy fit. People need to go outside, touch grass, and sit down and wargame with real people instead of whatever this sage of nonsense is
Remember when people could distinguish real life from fiction? What did we use to call it again? Oh yes, being an adult! Anyone remember that? Growing up and being an adult? You dont like something, you found something else to enjoy. Judging people on their character rather than childishly judging on skin colour or religion or sexual preferences. No? Just me? Ok 🤦♂️
Hahahahahahahahaha
So you knew this stuff about them but went looking for the fight. It’s their space. They can do with it what they want. You keep pointing out their politics but you are making it very clear it’s not your politics and that was a problem for you.
he wasn't prattling on about how it wasn't his politics that he wanted in there. he was literally saying that he wanted a setting that was A-political and clear from any nazi or woke or whatever else BS. that is what he is saying. his opinion is nothing about his personal politics and all about the fact that other people have imposed their own politics on something that he enjoyed and from the looks of it have made it much more unpopular and less people will touch said thing because of that.
The entire point was stop putting your personal politics label onto shit and then telling everyone else to get stuffed because they are wrong and you are right when people tell you to cut it out.
He says multiple times that he doesn't care what their politics are, just that perhaps you shouldn't ban people for merely existing while having a different worldview from you (while agreeing that people who break actual normal rules should obviously be banned).
i think 28mag is neat actually
Are you sure Joan of Arc wasn't Trans?
One of the reasons she was put on trial was her insistence on dressing like a male.
Maybe not the best example for you to use. ;-)
Joan of Arc wasn't trans. Period. She dressed like a man to be taken seriously. take your historical revisionism and shove it
This is really stupid
@@Qwerty-jy9mj You have obviously never studied the trial of Joan of Arc.
@@Caniswalensis you are obviously a politically motivated dolt
The developers of this game made a decision to partner with 28 mag, let them suffer the consequences of their decision. Don't give money to people who hate you.
Genuinely curious - whats wrong with 28 mag?
Ok looks like i have to see video
Sub-human amounts of low T.
Instead 🦜 🏴☠️
Y'all are like locusts
The creators need to grow a pair and ditch the loser discord mods of a FREE ONLINE MAGAZINE that they handed their community to.
The creators are completely woke and publicly endorsed what is happening there.
Bruh thats so lame i was just getting into the lore 😂, it seems that GW is only the owner of the table top monopoly because they are the only ones that where able to hold it together long enough to profit and learn to not always take a dumby where they eat
What the fuck is woke?
It's an infinitely stupid game to say "you can't define 'woke'" or "you can't define 'critical race theory.'" Of course we can define them-and even those who can't immediately summon the words have an intuitive understanding of what those phrases mean. Reddit-tier sophistry.
“Woke” is shorthand for wokeness or wokeism.
Wokeness and wokeism are the belief that:
(1) all of society is currently and intentionally structured to oppress;
(2) all gaps in performance between large groups illustrate this; and
(3) the solution is “equity”-proportional representation without regards to performance and a redistribution of resources.
@@doomfusion1807Of or pertaining to intersectionalist gramscian marxist ideals, especially in regards to identity.
I'm no longer interested in TC, let them suffer the consequences of their actions.
So stunning so brave
Or we could take it from the foul hordes.
Or we can take it and make it more inclusive as they say.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out
"Even republicans buy sneakers too" -Michel Jordan
As a company, your main objective should be that your product reaches the largest audience possible. Pandering to a minute set of people that are not interested in your product but only use it as a political battleground should spell disaster. Why annihilate any potential new costumers just because don't follow a certain ideology?
No it shouldn't. This isn't a sneaker company. Sneaker customers do not need to interact with each other in other for a sneaker business to work. Its a game that needs a community. There is a reason why I don't play historical games where I live. It isn't that I don't like painting tanks. Thats great fun. What I don't like is listening to far right banter while playing against an army with some obvious dog whistles in it.
Its also not a public service. This game is a someone passion project. Peaple have put years of their spare time into it.
So why wouldn't they want to shape the community to those they want to play against. I sure would, I would be way blunter.
No way that I would spend years of work into a game that is now played by peaple that I don't enjoy playing against.
A company should absolutely not throw away their morals to pander to as many people as possible. It's more than enough to make something that they like, for the people that they like. If they can have enough to continue making the thing that they want to then that's all that they need to do. Not everything should be about making millions of dollars and becoming a massive thing.
Given the devs saying they support the mods, I think it IS their fault. Accomplices at best, part of it at worst.
28 Mag is one of those "Inq28" spinoffs, judging by the list of games you showed on it. They're all the same sort of kitbash-crazy "Blanchitsu" people who are almost all progressives and want to do weird things with miniatures.
Yeah fuck creativity it’s weird
@@doomfusion1807 Yeah Fuck having something free of real world politics ..
@@doomfusion1807You think politically motivated censorship is "creativity", lol.
@heathstephens9199 bruh... Christianity IS real world politics. Just admit that it's the kind of politics you don't like.
@@doomfusion1807 If your definition of "creativity" is banning 50% of discourse and people then that narrows your creativity down a whole lot. :>)
Hate to say this, but if games developers pull this punish them as Sony was for Helldivers. Boycotts and bad reviews, if it kills Trench Crusade that is a pity but these people need to learn who their audience is and that they shouldn't ignore the audience concerns.
I mean it seems as if they don’t want that part of the audience anyway, so it wouldn’t really hurt them if they boycotted it.
@@Katboiuwu Then no harm right?
@@Katboiuwuit will if it Destroys em
@@fernandoleamshake7031 It wouldn’t destroy them, they quite obviously have an existing fanbase that most likely agrees with their views
@@KatboiuwuI recall Disney doing something similar, I wonder how things are going for them? 🤔
Trench crusade will never be apolitical because the entire game is based on an actual religion, Catholicism, and uses a lot of its imagery. If you want an apolitical game than make a fantasy world detached from real world religion and politics.
The Church is reactionary so the game should be reactionary as well.
Orthodox*
It is a world invaded by hell and is defended by ww1 era christians and muslims. The irl politics wouldnt fit into it. But ofc the community will have insufferable people because its about religious zealots fighting satanic zealots in trench pilgrimages...
You can make any setting apolitical where it doesn't matter which political topics you put into it. The point is being faithful about what you take and implement it from an objective point. The overarching narrative should never take a side and the creatos should always have in mind that what they do is just a vessel.
The biggest issue with approaching stuff with the mindest of your comment would make everything politically, because nothing you take can from the beginning be apolitical.
@@ichmich9324 A media can't be unbiased because people can't be unbiased. You can't add politics and make it neutral
Some of my friends had been kicked from the discord, for asking lore related questions and theory crafting
F#@k
Doubt
What were the questions? It was definitely just a lore question, right?
@@TySavage1 it was theory crafting, making theories on what factions or groups that would be in it
@@MasterofdroodsThat’s not at all specific unfortunately
I found this game just today and decided to watch this video on it. I hope if nothing else seeing a project like this get this reaction before it gets off the ground will convince creative types to be more carefull about who they get in bed with. The rot sets in very fast nowadays, but people have gotten even better at sniffing it out
separate the game from the people around it
do you like the game? play it
do you not like a group of people playing it? play it with someone else
does one group that like the game not share your policital views? who the fuck cares. play the game or dont play the game
Please keep us updated on this i was getting so much into the lore until this happened now i really only care about the aftermath
Cope
Their twitter is standing by their "friends" on the discord and not their community that is being banned. Trench Crusade DOA, good.
It's mot their community that's being banned, it's culture war tourists.
Cry about it
It's a shame that this only came onto my radar because of the controversy but I must admit from the factions currently available they will capitulate to modern political mobbing and would not be something I support, the amount of overt heavenly aid given to the Iron Sultanate reeks of modern day inclusion politics, would have been much more interesting to have a byzantine faction instead of a rum alchemical faction. Also the amount of overt blasphemy with Jurassic parking Jesus is just all kinds of weird. Could have used martyrs for the same concept and given it a more badass instead of a heretical approach.
Final conclusion: This is all a big nothing-burger. Moving on.
I have no desire to wait and see. let this game die.
Let’s host a game that features a lot of heavy religious themes then get mad when people who are politically more right wing, which tend to be more socially conservative/religious, get interested in a game with religious themes
Maybe it is time to write alternative lore for games and do not care so much for the official ones. For example the Templars could have been communists and the demon worshippers too. They never respect our lore so why should we respect theirs? People can make their own Discords without those disgusting people.
FIRST LIKE
10:56 This is very true. Unfortunately the worst of their community seems to be getting the most attention.
I'm new here. I just want to play a cool game.
They don't have a problem, it's their discord, their game, they choose to Wich segments of the community they support, stop whining and crying for things you can't control, this is simple, you just need to create your own setting with all the conservative, misogynism and the things you support and for the community you want, stop trying to make te developers to think like you do,just grow up and accept that these setting don't belong to any of you
Hahahaha this is some clown crap you are shitting out. 28 Mag caused alot of damage for no reason will it do well sure thing, they decided to ban people for asking questions and when they decided to be political over apolitical and you just make up what you think others are and think. Keep a WW1 weird dark fantasy just that 🤣
The Inq 28 community (and by extension, 28 Mag) take their games very seriously. The role of Inquisition extends into real life too. This round of Discord shenanigans isn't the first, and it certainly won't be the last. They are an absolutely cancerous community.
It is the developer's fault. Don't run cover for them.
I enjoyed your analysis. You come off as neutral.
As wargamers there should be an obvious solution to politics. Fair rules applied to everyone and have fun crushing your opponent.
TLDR Summary: whaaaaah! Someone’s doing something “woke” but I can’t define what “woke” actually IS: whaaaaah!
I care not for the political nonsense i shall nevertheless continue to make my lore videos rather or not the discord falls
One of my Friend follow you because you are apolitical so you are doing a good job!
and let them get away with it?
@@ciapekciapkowski4969 I know that there is light at the end of the tunnel
@@a_random_orthodox_Christian yes haven after they murder everything you love
I reckon those joy toys get tributes fairly regularly ay
Anyone else get that vibe
I just want Mike and the TC team to just come out and say if it doesnt have to do with Paladins, Mutant Artillery Batteries, or the 4th Circle of Hell then take it somewhere else. I'm a pretty hard right guy and i never want to hear about politics when it comes to my hobbies, just lore.
Still very hyped about Trench Crusade. And while their Twitter response is not ideal in its wording, I think they just want to distance themselves from the drama. Basically, it amounts to, " They banned people and we do not really want to discuss any of that because we want to talk about our game here and not discord politics." Just my 2 cents.
yeah, no, this reeks of cope and lost cost fallacy.
"Headcanon is headcanon; kitbashes are kitbashes, di what you do" wholesome Andrew Tate strikes again.
I appreciate how someone can genuinely hold this belief but be critical of how these things are handled within an IP. There is a nuance to everything, but plenty of folks (people who ban based on bad vibes aka misaligned beliefs) don't (won't) understand and it shows.
I'm very astonished, because the woke could sit silent so long. I'm also for settings which aren't mentioned current politics (though I know not even one which is clearly supporting something right or maybe even in the center). And game itself looks more like old editions of Warhammer. There was nothing woke in it and usually woke will signalize its presence very clearly and fast. So I have a though... maybe they know that woke doesn't sell. Because they not wanting to make something political is beyond me.
I'm not holding my breath
Whaaah woke waaaahhh woke you speak words with no meaning yet believe yourself to be human
@@Corsharkgaming Whaah inclusion whaah inclusion
@@Corsharkgaming Ahem
N-
@@Corsharkgaming Hahaha, preaching inclusion and calling someone subhuman for opinions. Yours are the only ones that need be respected, right? It's hilarious that leftists are so up their own asses but still can't smell their own shit.
Just like that all the momentum is lost. I saw everyone talking about trench crusade at ghe time
Now, nobody seems to talk about it.
Cope and seethe hahahahahaahaha
You didn't describe the criticisms being leveled at Trench Crusade.
Can you please talk about that?
Just look at the complaints trannies had about any other setting or IP and copypaste them here
They have now announced a new discord run by their own admin team. So that's something. Not a great start but let's hope they can keep the bloody thing a-political.. Because this setting deserves to be brought to fruition.. And, I did see an admin on the Facebook warn a very left (or at least read that way-talking about marginalized groups etc) fella and someone else I assume to be of the same persuasion about targeting individuals in comments. So that may be of some encouragement..
The setting as in seems inherently the opposite of apolitical, starting to think that people use that word to mean 'not including things that alienate me/disagree with me.'
The difference is within the public discourse/community and within the game.
If you discuss WW2, do you have to be a nahtsee or a commie? Of course not. It ought to be the same with games and communities such as this game's.
Curious to see where this goes. I sent TC a direct email asking if they were going to keep the politics outta the game and lore. Hope I get a response as this Lore is crack for all of us devout Christians... It is literally our thing.
The creators came out saying that the Crusaders fighting against the literal forces of Hell "aren't necessarily the good guys". Made me lose interest entirely.
So, you want to keep politics out of a game which is:
a. an alternate history
b. based on the First Crusade
c. and has heavy religious elements and various factions?
This setting, by its very nature and subject matter, is highly political. Trying to remove "politics" is not only not very feasible, but would actively make the game's setting worse. Multiple flawed factions are far better than just "good guy" and "bad guy" factions, especially in non-historical wargames.
@@chernobylwendigo3994 Look up what the Crusaders got up to in our own history--it ain't pretty.
@@blockyuniverseproductions6587 Having multiple flawed factions is one thing, but when you are fighting against literal demons from Hell sent by Satan, you're the good guys. Also the Crusades were an ugly time because war is inherently ugly, but they were also a defensive response against the aggressions of Muslim invaders in to Christian land.
@@blockyuniverseproductions6587look who they were fighting and on some crusades why. Not pretty unless you follow Islam.
Almost like discord servers sow discord,
Also all publicity is publicity,
A pyramid needs two sides pushing against eachother