Smart man. Theres so many ways to loosen the grip of the power companies and Im glad to see ppl are aware of that and are using their brain to try something out.
The learning is great, but individual efforts like this don't get anyone terribly far. Power companies serve a need that is generally impractical for individuals to fulfill on their own, and they do it for a few cents per kilowatt-hour; they're not our enemy, guy! Big wind farms, big solar farms, big nuclear plants, and someday fusion plants: that's what'll serve us going forward.
Dude, thanks so much for posting this. I have been looking at purchasing a used EV car. Carvana has some good deals but the range of each vehicle is almost exactly what I would use to get to and from work daily. Your project will solve my problem if I get stuck. Thanks so much for posting this.
It may be interesting to put enough lithium cells in series to match the car’s battery voltage, then just connect them in parallel with it, so they’re always helping out, and there are no inverter and charger losses.
@turtlezed in theory doubling the size of the battery Will more than double the distance as the draw on each cell would be half and they are more efficient at a lower draw. Obviously, you'd have to take the additional weight into consideration, but I believe it will still be more than double. Slightly maybe like 5% more
I've driven my Nissan Leaf for over 4 years now and never had a situation where I would need to charge anywhere except at home. I use the car for business and have a route that is about 50+ miles a day . Before I purchased the leaf I had to figure out if a pure electric was the way to go and it has worked out great. If I was going to be driving any further I would have probably purchased something else. I have more range on my car without any passengers or supplies in the car, the Leaf doesn't even have a spare tire to reduce weight, if you're hauling around extra batteries you might be losing a few miles of range, in my experience that's what I've noticed. I haul several hundred pounds of equipment some days and I notice the range drop so I just drive the car like an old lady on those days . I'm glad the setup you have is working for you, I know everybody's situation is different .
Thanks for bringing this DIY idea. Everyone is then free to apply it or not. If 6 extra miles gives you this peace of mind and no range anxiety, then well done ! The most important is that you like riding your EV.
Hard metal connections are not the best for an environment where there is constant movement/bumping. Safer to use copper cables. Be sure not to top off the battery! You should drain it some more before charging to full. .... Sweet ride BTW! Thanks for sharing your build. You bought extra miles :).... Nice you have an rv converter as a charger... I got one not too long ago for the rv..
Paul: Very clean & meticulous install. Great effort on your part. Two items of note that I might mention. #1 You might want to reconsider the terminal that you choose to switch out the inverter when regular charging from the house mains to the POSITIVE lead instead of the negative since attempting to use the negative lead with your Marine grade 12 volt 100 amp switch could possibly result in a loop back via the inverter's chassis ground safety lead. #2 as impressive and neat as the BUS BARS are (which would be fine in a static scenario) they could cause permanent damage to the posts of your SLA batteries due to constant vehicle vibrations. JUST A THOUGHT ! A few tweaks and some minor changes could result in a great little range extender. Kudos to you and all the best in your efforts.
Why dont the car makers offer additional battery pack locations? Removable extra capacity could be handy on occasion, but just add unwanted weight on other days
Good work analyzing the weight and effect on range. Weight has a negligible effect on range in EV's because of regenerative braking. The biggest loss in any EV is aerodynamic losses. Putting spats (covers) over your rear wheels can improve mileage by up to 15%! Converting mirrors to cameras can save as much as 5%.
It's a cool idea and simple to do but you will only get 300-500 cycles on those batteries so those mini charges are pretty expensive. I don't think it's really a practical solution for daily use but it does work and might help with getting to a slightly out of range destination. You can also just reduce speed 10-15 MPH and probably get the same range extension also but what you have done is a really cool experiment.
I don't agree with this method, but I won't throw stones at anyone trying to think out of the box. However, how have you considered the gases produced by the flooded cell batteries... inside the passenger cabin?
Flooded lead batteries produce Hydrogen gas, especially during the ending charge cycle at upper voltage ranges of 13-14v+. These gasses should be vented to the outside and not contained inside of a passenger car. If lead type batteries are used inside, sealed lead or AGM should be used because they don't produce hydrogen gas.
For the last 4 winters I have been using 6deep cycle battery to supply a small heater, so all the power from the main battery is used For travelling, and the 6 battery gives me 2 hours of heating. I solved my winter range problem. The only difference is that I have straps securing the battery’s
Congrats on your ingenuity, a job well done. Just to add, make sure to meter and monitor the discharge level on your batteries. Don't discharge too much, the batteries won't last. Batteries as you pointed out are expensive. Well done!
total range will increase though, but consumption too. What I don't like is the inverter: Their efficiency is no great and it is used to power the charger which has better efficiency, but also wastes 10-20%. Then there is the constant maintenance charge and worse charge efficiency of lead acid batteries, so his power bill will go up more than the range increase. Make a string of lead acid batteries to match the voltage of the pack and connect them before driving.
@@Tore_Lund 400V? You know all this idea is stupid. Charging at less than 1kW? Not worth the effort at all Better upgrading the 10 year old battery pack with a newer version with more capacity. This would be perfect for a Bolt EV cells transplant.
I believe tapping on the main battery would increase the mileage more for more efficient way with more loss. Don't get me wrong. The idea is great the simple way it is but it can be done more efficiently
The idea is stupid: Lead acid batteries have an energy density of 20Wh/kg, an inverter has at best 70% efficiency, the ev charger 90% efficiency. so roughly 45 kg of batteries and inverter indeed gives him 567Wh, indeed enough for a few miles. However the 45kg add around 2% in extra drag, as rolling resistance increases with weight, so if he could go 200 miles before, his range will be decreased by around 4 miles, so the net result is nothing gained!!!. What he has achieved is adding a battery with higher self discharge and worse charge efficiency, that also lowers the energy efficiency of the whole vehicle, which result in higher emissions. So this guy forgot to consider the whole picture, when doing his calculation.
This is a pretty cool setup, but how do you plan to evacuate the hydrogen gas it puts off, or what will you do if the batteries boil over? Just a thought, the only thing I'd change in this setup is the batteries, going with either sealed lead or lithium batteries. Cool none the less though!
10 miles with two more batteries. Keep in mind this vehicle only has ~80 miles range from the factory. So adding 10 more miles while it sounds insignificant is actually extending the range quite a bit. The extra weight has a negligible affect on mileage from my experiment else I agree and wouldn't have wasted the money.
I would buy new ones as the prices have dropped. Your right Lithium is much lighter, however fire danger is significantly raised. Pack a fire extinguisher.
You'd need more batteries. And whilst ur@it you may as well be more efficient. If you get 4 batteries instead of 3 you can bring up the voltage to 48VDC and then use a 48VDC --> 240VAC inverter. That will allow your car to charge > 2X as fast. The higher voltages also make for less loss from heat dissipation because you would require less amperage for the same wattage. The less heat you create the more efficient as more of it would be in the form of purer electricity. All the best!! I found some really good deals on inverters at banggood.com ...if ur willing to wait for about a month for them to arrive. lol I don;t know if they carry batteries tho.
The best idea would be to always tow a trailer with a big and strong horse in it and enough hay. In case of a range problem the horse would gratefully help you out.
you are charging at 1.2kW. This is the lowest possible and will add 5-6km for an hour of charging. you have three batteries there, probably 20Ah each, meaning you have around 1kWh of energy in the batteries. Again, one hour of charge or 5-6km of extra drive. what you have there makes more sense as emergency lighting than range extender. someone mentioned lipo batteries because they will give probably twice the extra range. as for pure sine inverter, i believe modified sine would work as well.
I would wonder what sort of range extension would you possibly hope to get from maybe what... 1.5 KWhrs extra storage? I mean... you're talking ~6 miles...? Probably less after efficiency losses.
3x120Ah lead chemistry batteries would get you 4320watt hours but realistically if you want those batteries to have a life youve only got half of that…. How many extra miles would 2160watt hours of charge get you? What size battery pack is in your car?
Hi Paul, I've been through the video a few times. I wasn't able to find a video with the math though - really curious about making one of these using tesla style cells. Any pointers to a good resource to better understand the math behind the system? Thanks!
If you used lithium batteries it would be a lot lighter, but the only down side is the cost.Also if you used a 3kw inverter it would probably be more efficient.Another way to go is to use a small generator which is lighter presumably it's for emergency charging.I use a similar system for charging my electric motorcycle.
The weight had a negligible impact on my range. Think of the batteries as a passenger in your vehicle. You don't get much worse mileage. Honestly, I could hardly notice any difference with over 400 pounds of retaining wall block in the car to emulate worst case extra weight. I maybe lost a mile. This setup weighs ~200 pound. Inverters run more efficient if you are using most of the power availble. Sure, you could do gas generator. Noisy and fumes though plus how to fit it in such a small car.
Paul Di Maggio The gas generator is for emergency use so when you run low and you can't find a charger, with system shown here it's good to extend the range but you still have the problem of what to do when even that isn't far enough, it's just extra weight doing nothing. However by carrying a small generator when you run low you can simply give yourself a charge then pull into a petrol station and get some more gasoline for the generator for the next time you need it. Emergency use. It would be nice if there were more charging stations or more convenient charging stations like with gas stations perhaps even some entertainment while waiting around but as yet the people in charge of the charging points seem to view them as charging points rather than charging stations. It seems ironic that a gas vehicle takes around 5 minutes to refuel but you get all the entertainment you need including the ability to make purchases, while electric vehicles take over 30 minutes to charge on average but instead of trying to get you to part with your money in a way similar to that of petrol stations they put the chargers as far away from goods and services as they can possibly manage. I find this really strange, people spend money when they have time and money to waste, petrol car or motorcycle in the UK anything from 20 to 100 pounds to fill up your tank, electric car/motorcycle costs almost nothing to charge, that means money that could be spent in a store buying a shirt or a pair of jeans or chocs or flowers but no! electric charge point in the basement of a car park where no one wants to go or on some side street where some would not want to venture out. Real genius marketing systems at play, it's called stupid ass idiotic moronic promotions ltd. I would have expected charging stations to be front and center as close to the amenities as possible to get those wallets and purses open. It's just a thought.
I'm impressed. Great engineering. You are an example of how things get innovated. Keep up the good work. Have you tried it with 5 batteries? If so, what were your results?
I have been considering this, but with a single solar panel so it charges at work. Also, saying the weight only reduces range by 1 mile is irrelevant if you don't say how far you drove, that should be a % figure.
I can imagine some situations where this would be very useful. For instance, if your round trip to work was just a few miles too far for the Spark's range, then adding six miles while parked at work would be perfect.
True. Another situation where this comes in useful is if you ran out of battery. Instead of having the car towed, let it recharge just enough to get it home. The system can also be used as a source of backup power for your house when the power goes out.
I been trying to charge a 2018 chevy volt with 3000w pure sinewave inverter, 300ah lithium battery. It wont work, the charge connector would give error light; i believe it's the "ground" problem of the inverter. I tried other inverters, too. I am surprised your charge connector does not give error lights. Good job.
Thanks. Yes, lithium was just too expensive to justify. Ended up finding a free fast charger on the way to work so never ended using the setup as intended. Now, I have the system in my house so I can run some appliances off of battery power during peak hours when electricity is expensive and charge the batteries during off peak. But I like having these batteries for emergency purpose if I were ever to run out of juice on the road, saves me a tow.
You are very creative! This is a good attempt, but to be truly useful you can figure out how to tap in directly to the 360(?) volts of the main battery and extend the battery directly, while driving! There's a guy who attempted that with the Leaf. Also, you would want to use a lithium pack eventually, and put it on a trailer so you don't need to carry the weight except when you need the range.
Plugging in an EV will disable the car from being able to start, if the car is already running then typically the car gets automatically switched back to acc. only mode. It would take some hacking and breaking into the battery pack to be able the feed power to the pack via an external 400v DC charger.
Paul, How about an update. Today is 7.22.17 haven't heard how this has worked out for you or if there have been improvements in the long run. Thanks from another DIY HACKER.
Efficiency works like this. Battery charger to battery pack efficiency say 90% Inverter say 90 % Battery charger to car battery pack say 90 % Car motor controller say 90 % Electric car motor efficiency say 90% Total efficiency 0.9x0.9x0.9x0.9x0.9 = 59% and thats being generous it may actually be below 50% So yes it does work no doubt but perhaps there is a better way. I put a 2kW petrol generator in the boot with a fitted exhaust and ran that through my car charger, it worked. Just keep in mind though that you have to keep a record of how many km you got out of your MAIN battery pack before it had to be replaced and how much that worked out to per km. Lead acid batteries are about 10x more expensive than using gasoline. I do like the fact that you can charge it while you at work though without having to ask the Boss if you can plug in thats what makes it a reasonable idea if you cant plug in at work If you fitted a kWH meter to your power in line and could prove how much you using then you can pay for a full charge while you at work even although its so little.
They sell ultra lightweight performance car batteries that weigh 1/3 of the weight of most car batteries. A better range extend option is to build a battery pack with the same voltage as your onboard battery pack and run it in parallel (doubles your range)
You should try a supercapacitor bank. Put a small solar panel on the roof of the car or have a pole mount attached to the car and have the solar panel track the sun. Solar panel charges the supercapacitors and when full can DC fast charge to the EV. Throughout the day the cycle would repeat.
Better yet. Install a class one hitch receiver. Put a luggage carrier with a lithium battery pack and inverter with charger permanently mounted to the carrier. Folding adjustable height wheels flip down from the carrier when you want to pull the pin and leave the whole thing behind for all but long trips. Many charging stations have a free 110 outlet where you can plug in while charging your car's traction battery. A light weight gas generator inverter mounted in the carrier would work also.
with how you have connected your inverter cables to your battery bank you will cause the first battery to be used more than battery 2 and 3 Electricity takes the shortest path never forget this rule, so to solve this just turn one of your bus bars around so the cable is at the other end,
what a gtreat idea if you want a 250 amp cut off switch jeggs speed shop has them online they sell race car parts nice job dude i thought youd get more than 6 miles though .
He would likely get more range if he upgrades his batteries from marine batteries to higher energy density lithium iron phosphate ones, but those would likely be more expensive, but probably still worth it. He would likely get another 24 miles range just for doing that and only a tiny bit more weight. He can improve on efficiency too if he swaps his inverter for a 48VDC --> 240VAC one as it requires less amperage and would dissipate less heat. Then he could use 4 Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries for the 48V which are lighter for more power.
Hello my friend, good video , but I thik cables is better than solid connections, I dont recommend batterys exposes like this becouse produce acid vapors And you need put under batterys a battery plastic tray with drains, you can find on Rv storage. Good luck..
This is brilliant. I have discussed with a friend who has a Volt and he's interested as a way to extend his electric range. Owing to the Peukert Effect, it is better to use your lower wattage inverter and the 8 amp charge, anyhow, as you discharge the batteries slower and thereby maximize their capacity. Anyone who says a generator is better, no way. Any suitcase generator you'd reasonably be able to carry, such as a Honda EU2000, would give you about the same added range as this, but you'll wear it out in a short time running it close to full tilt as you'd have to, plus how many places do you have adequate security to set up a generator and run it unattended without fear of it being stolen or vandalized? How many places want a gas engine running in the parking lot for hours? And if it rains, the generator is likely going to be damaged. Moreover you have to carry gas in the passenger compartment of your vehicle. Bad idea. You can also use your setup to reduce deep cycling of your car's onboard battery, extending its life. I would use this to charge your battery anytime you anticipate running below 50 percent, reducing the depth of discharge of the car battery. Thank you so much for sharing.
Suggestion.Install a class one hitch receiver. Put a luggage carrier with a lithium battery pack and inverter with charger permanently mounted to the carrier. Folding adjustable height wheels flip down from the carrier when you want to pull the pin and leave the whole thing behind for all but long trips. Many charging stations have a free 110 outlet where you can plug in while charging your car's traction battery. A light weight gas generator inverter mounted in the carrier would work also. A plastic cover over the system would protect it from the elements. For my Kia soul EV on a 90 mile round trip where I spend two and a half hours at the destination before returning home, With this system, I wouldn't have to stop at the charging station on the return trip home.
A portable, folding solar panel charging system could be mounted to a luggage carrier. It could stand up in the carrier on an angle facing the sun and charge the car. It could even fold up and over the cars roof with some cleverly designed quick disconnect mounts on the car.
yamato908 That is very true. The very first Tesla prototype had a small trailer carrying a gas generator, for long range trips. Tzero was the name of it..... Very fast car☺
I’m thinking of putting a hitch on my Fiat 500 e then a basket that would hold the 38lb harbor freight 2-stroke generator that would charge while you drive 😀
Great idea but 6-10 miles, Also 8amp charging=about 2kwh your inverter is rated 1.2kwh and 2.4kwh peak, so should fail after a few minutes. Next the deep cycle battery is good for perhaps 300 cycles, so 300x10=3000miles the 3 batteries and inverter and bits, lets say $600 600/3000 + electric -efficiency 35-40 cents per mile best guess. However i'm not criticising, i like the idea. I think a light weight 2.5kwh petrol generator would be a better idea.
When charging and discharging these vented lead acid, marine batteries, you'll be producing hydrogen gas which can accumulate at ceiling level in your Spark. By placing the inverter right next to your batteries, you'll be sucking not only hydrogen gas in through the inverters fan but also acid mist. A single spark from a relay in your inverter or a loose battery lead and you've provided an excellent source for ignition. I would be extremely careful about using this device with the windows rolled up. I don't know if you've ever seen a vented battery blow up, but I have, and it isn't pretty between the damage caused by the explosion but also the sulfuric acid that is sprayed everywhere. For your safety and for your EV's sake. I would suggest switching to sealed AGM LA batteries or better yet, lightweight, sealed Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
Just buy a portable generator. Its about the same weight and can produce much more electricity. Or just owna a Volt so that you have that ICE to use when going out of EV range.
Change the lead acid to LiFE4Po batteries. Yes it works, but LiFE4Po batteries are far less expensive if you do this often, and have practically double the usable power. Good idea, and fine for once in a while. :) Extra fine if you have solar panels already and can recharge the batteries from the solar.
You could also just carry the 12-110 V inverted and a Jump Start cable in case you are stranded and use any ICE to give you a jump. The issue is that you have to carry all of those extra batteries and also a battery charger.
Smart man. Theres so many ways to loosen the grip of the power companies and Im glad to see ppl are aware of that and are using their brain to try something out.
The learning is great, but individual efforts like this don't get anyone terribly far. Power companies serve a need that is generally impractical for individuals to fulfill on their own, and they do it for a few cents per kilowatt-hour; they're not our enemy, guy! Big wind farms, big solar farms, big nuclear plants, and someday fusion plants: that's what'll serve us going forward.
Dude, thanks so much for posting this. I have been looking at purchasing a used EV car. Carvana has some good deals but the range of each vehicle is almost exactly what I would use to get to and from work daily. Your project will solve my problem if I get stuck. Thanks so much for posting this.
It may be interesting to put enough lithium cells in series to match the car’s battery voltage, then just connect them in parallel with it, so they’re always helping out, and there are no inverter and charger losses.
Agree, he's probably losing 20-30% with the sine converter then another 20-30% converting it back into DC while charging the car.
You’d basically have to match the size of the cars existing pack if you wanted to double the range…
@turtlezed in theory doubling the size of the battery Will more than double the distance as the draw on each cell would be half and they are more efficient at a lower draw. Obviously, you'd have to take the additional weight into consideration, but I believe it will still be more than double. Slightly maybe like 5% more
I've driven my Nissan Leaf for over 4 years now and never had a situation where I would need to charge anywhere except at home. I use the car for business and have a route that is about 50+ miles a day . Before I purchased the leaf I had to figure out if a pure electric was the way to go and it has worked out great. If I was going to be driving any further I would have probably purchased something else. I have more range on my car without any passengers or supplies in the car, the Leaf doesn't even have a spare tire to reduce weight, if you're hauling around extra batteries you might be losing a few miles of range, in my experience that's what I've noticed. I haul several hundred pounds of equipment some days and I notice the range drop so I just drive the car like an old lady on those days . I'm glad the setup you have is working for you, I know everybody's situation is different .
I've lived in big cities all my life and never had to commute more than 25 miles each way... what's your problem buddy?
Thanks for bringing this DIY idea. Everyone is then free to apply it or not. If 6 extra miles gives you this peace of mind and no range anxiety, then well done ! The most important is that you like riding your EV.
Hard metal connections are not the best for an environment where there is constant movement/bumping. Safer to use copper cables. Be sure not to top off the battery! You should drain it some more before charging to full. .... Sweet ride BTW! Thanks for sharing your build. You bought extra miles :).... Nice you have an rv converter as a charger... I got one not too long ago for the rv..
And the weight of the "old school" batteries also lower your range ;-) Buy some 12/24V Li-Po :-)
Paul: Very clean & meticulous install. Great effort on your part. Two items of note that I might mention. #1 You might want to reconsider the terminal that you choose to switch out the inverter when regular charging from the house mains to the POSITIVE lead instead of the negative since attempting to use the negative lead with your Marine grade 12 volt 100 amp switch could possibly result in a loop back via the inverter's chassis ground safety lead. #2 as impressive and neat as the BUS BARS are (which would be fine in a static scenario) they could cause permanent damage to the posts of your SLA batteries due to constant vehicle vibrations. JUST A THOUGHT ! A few tweaks and some minor changes could result in a great little range extender. Kudos to you and all the best in your efforts.
Thanks doing a nice explanation and demo.
Nice set up . Can you unplug the inverter and have the cables hook to the regular car battery to charge them while you drive with the car alternator
Cali Coca electric car no alternator
Add an alternator for batteries only, there’s an idea
But if batteries were trickled charged somehow it would not be a bad idea
They just need to add some self charging batteries through what ever source so it can be free to drive
Why dont the car makers offer additional battery pack locations? Removable extra capacity could be handy on occasion, but just add unwanted weight on other days
Mark Magenis , yes exactly
i like what your doing, great little project that can turn into something bigger
shouldent the fuse be on the positive dude ???
Good work analyzing the weight and effect on range. Weight has a negligible effect on range in EV's because of regenerative braking. The biggest loss in any EV is aerodynamic losses. Putting spats (covers) over your rear wheels can improve mileage by up to 15%! Converting mirrors to cameras can save as much as 5%.
It's a cool idea and simple to do but you will only get 300-500 cycles on those batteries so those mini charges are pretty expensive. I don't think it's really a practical solution for daily use but it does work and might help with getting to a slightly out of range destination. You can also just reduce speed 10-15 MPH and probably get the same range extension also but what you have done is a really cool experiment.
nice project! and well done. now that you've had the extender for a while, has it performed as hoped?
nice but where do pout put the groceries
I don't agree with this method, but I won't throw stones at anyone trying to think out of the box. However, how have you considered the gases produced by the flooded cell batteries... inside the passenger cabin?
Flooded lead batteries produce Hydrogen gas, especially during the ending charge cycle at upper voltage ranges of 13-14v+. These gasses should be vented to the outside and not contained inside of a passenger car. If lead type batteries are used inside, sealed lead or AGM should be used because they don't produce hydrogen gas.
FabioPanucci you right, acid vapors damage fabrics and not good for humans..
@@machaf Lead acid batteries can be vented outside the vehicle by connecting plastic or rubber tubes
@@machaf Sorry bud it was for those who were concerned about the gas whilst charging
For the last 4 winters I have been using 6deep cycle battery to supply a small heater, so all the power from the main battery is used
For travelling, and the 6 battery gives me 2 hours of heating. I solved my winter range problem. The only difference is that I have straps securing the battery’s
Congrats on your ingenuity, a job well done. Just to add, make sure to meter and monitor the discharge level on your batteries. Don't discharge too much, the batteries won't last. Batteries as you pointed out are expensive. Well done!
High Tech batteries are available;ie, Lithium 12 volt car batteries. Probably need deep cycle model.
@@artman102 How much more expensive are those?
are u loosing some range by carring the extra weight of battries
total range will increase though, but consumption too. What I don't like is the inverter: Their efficiency is no great and it is used to power the charger which has better efficiency, but also wastes 10-20%. Then there is the constant maintenance charge and worse charge efficiency of lead acid batteries, so his power bill will go up more than the range increase. Make a string of lead acid batteries to match the voltage of the pack and connect them before driving.
@@Tore_Lund 400V?
You know all this idea is stupid. Charging at less than 1kW? Not worth the effort at all
Better upgrading the 10 year old battery pack with a newer version with more capacity. This would be perfect for a Bolt EV cells transplant.
What is latest tech you have developed now for range extender
I believe tapping on the main battery would increase the mileage more for more efficient way with more loss. Don't get me wrong. The idea is great the simple way it is but it can be done more efficiently
The idea is stupid: Lead acid batteries have an energy density of 20Wh/kg, an inverter has at best 70% efficiency, the ev charger 90% efficiency. so roughly 45 kg of batteries and inverter indeed gives him 567Wh, indeed enough for a few miles. However the 45kg add around 2% in extra drag, as rolling resistance increases with weight, so if he could go 200 miles before, his range will be decreased by around 4 miles, so the net result is nothing gained!!!. What he has achieved is adding a battery with higher self discharge and worse charge efficiency, that also lowers the energy efficiency of the whole vehicle, which result in higher emissions. So this guy forgot to consider the whole picture, when doing his calculation.
@@Tore_Lund You are the only one who knows what is going on.
Im curious. What is the cold cranking amps and cranking amps rated at on one of those batteries? And how much does one single battery weigh?
There is a huge loss with converting 12vdc to AC and back to DC. I get the point of it being a backup for your battery pack.
This is a pretty cool setup, but how do you plan to evacuate the hydrogen gas it puts off, or what will you do if the batteries boil over? Just a thought, the only thing I'd change in this setup is the batteries, going with either sealed lead or lithium batteries. Cool none the less though!
Great job.This is what I plan to do for me Renault Fluence ZE.
Cost of batteries and inverter + added weight + time to recharge = not much value for 6 extra miles of range. Sorry, not trying to burst your bubble.
10 miles with two more batteries. Keep in mind this vehicle only has ~80 miles range from the factory. So adding 10 more miles while it sounds insignificant is actually extending the range quite a bit. The extra weight has a negligible affect on mileage from my experiment else I agree and wouldn't have wasted the money.
6 extra miles is no laughing matter when you are 3 miles from home and your power bars are gone.
value is assigned by the person doing the work, not just pure money. by your justification, explain insurance or another similar scheme.
wouldnt it be best to buy some used laptop lithium batteries and create a battery pack?
I would buy new ones as the prices have dropped. Your right Lithium is much lighter, however fire danger is significantly raised. Pack a fire extinguisher.
You can install solar or you can get 12v dc from car armature
Is This is unable to charge it while driving?
Great idea! Do you think this would work, amp wise, on a 2012 transit connect electric van?
You'd need more batteries. And whilst ur@it you may as well be more efficient. If you get 4 batteries instead of 3 you can bring up the voltage to 48VDC and then use a 48VDC --> 240VAC inverter. That will allow your car to charge > 2X as fast. The higher voltages also make for less loss from heat dissipation because you would require less amperage for the same wattage. The less heat you create the more efficient as more of it would be in the form of purer electricity. All the best!!
I found some really good deals on inverters at banggood.com ...if ur willing to wait for about a month for them to arrive. lol I don;t know if they carry batteries tho.
The best idea would be to always tow a trailer with a big and strong horse in it and enough hay. In case of a range problem the horse would gratefully help you out.
Juri Vlk or a big smokey diesel generator.
Or adapt an outside alternator to the wheels to generate charge to the batteries
you are charging at 1.2kW. This is the lowest possible and will add 5-6km for an hour of charging.
you have three batteries there, probably 20Ah each, meaning you have around 1kWh of energy in the batteries. Again, one hour of charge or 5-6km of extra drive.
what you have there makes more sense as emergency lighting than range extender.
someone mentioned lipo batteries because they will give probably twice the extra range. as for pure sine inverter, i believe modified sine would work as well.
Can this be used at the same time as driving to increase the range ?
That's what I was wondering too. Charge and drive at the same time?
Does that stay in the car full-time?
why is the ground fused and not the positive?
Good catch your right, lol.
This guy is in trouble
Not too portable as those batteries are very heavy. How far can you go on 3Kw?
Maybe lithium batteries would be better.
what is the wattage of those batteries ?
This is a great idea, especially as I reside in a 4th floor apartment, but I can't even get the green light to show on the Volts' portable charger.
You need be a ten gauge extension cord
I would wonder what sort of range extension would you possibly hope to get from maybe what... 1.5 KWhrs extra storage? I mean... you're talking ~6 miles...? Probably less after efficiency losses.
I think a portable generator will be better 2 or 4 cycle. What good is 6 miles.?
He'd likely get over 24 miles if he switched to Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
3x120Ah lead chemistry batteries would get you 4320watt hours but realistically if you want those batteries to have a life youve only got half of that…. How many extra miles would 2160watt hours of charge get you? What size battery pack is in your car?
i was thinking about buying a use 2012 nissan leaf sl\sv fully electric how would i get a card to charge it at a charging port, would it be a problem.
Hi Paul,
I've been through the video a few times. I wasn't able to find a video with the math though - really curious about making one of these using tesla style cells. Any pointers to a good resource to better understand the math behind the system?
Thanks!
If you get 4-5 rollout solar panel, you can charge up your battery if there’s sunlight-free charge!
If you used lithium batteries it would be a lot lighter, but the only down side is the cost.Also if you used a 3kw inverter it would probably be more efficient.Another way to go is to use a small generator which is lighter presumably it's for emergency charging.I use a similar system for charging my electric motorcycle.
The weight had a negligible impact on my range. Think of the batteries as a passenger in your vehicle. You don't get much worse mileage. Honestly, I could hardly notice any difference with over 400 pounds of retaining wall block in the car to emulate worst case extra weight. I maybe lost a mile. This setup weighs ~200 pound. Inverters run more efficient if you are using most of the power availble. Sure, you could do gas generator. Noisy and fumes though plus how to fit it in such a small car.
Paul Di Maggio The gas generator is for emergency use so when you run low and you can't find a charger, with system shown here it's good to extend the range but you still have the problem of what to do when even that isn't far enough, it's just extra weight doing nothing.
However by carrying a small generator when you run low you can simply give yourself a charge then pull into a petrol station and get some more gasoline for the generator for the next time you need it.
Emergency use.
It would be nice if there were more charging stations or more convenient charging stations like with gas stations perhaps even some entertainment while waiting around but as yet the people in charge of the charging points seem to view them as charging points rather than charging stations.
It seems ironic that a gas vehicle takes around 5 minutes to refuel but you get all the entertainment you need including the ability to make purchases, while electric vehicles take over 30 minutes to charge on average but instead of trying to get you to part with your money in a way similar to that of petrol stations they put the chargers as far away from goods and services as they can possibly manage.
I find this really strange, people spend money when they have time and money to waste, petrol car or motorcycle in the UK anything from 20 to 100 pounds to fill up your tank, electric car/motorcycle costs almost nothing to charge, that means money that could be spent in a store buying a shirt or a pair of jeans or chocs or flowers but no! electric charge point in the basement of a car park where no one wants to go or on some side street where some would not want to venture out.
Real genius marketing systems at play, it's called stupid ass idiotic moronic promotions ltd.
I would have expected charging stations to be front and center as close to the amenities as possible to get those wallets and purses open.
It's just a thought.
How did you solved the floating ground problem that makes it impossible to use a GM evse from an inverter or generator
I'm impressed. Great engineering. You are an example of how things get innovated. Keep up the good work.
Have you tried it with 5 batteries? If so, what were your results?
I have been considering this, but with a single solar panel so it charges at work.
Also, saying the weight only reduces range by 1 mile is irrelevant if you don't say how far you drove, that should be a % figure.
I can imagine some situations where this would be very useful. For instance, if your round trip to work was just a few miles too far for the Spark's range, then adding six miles while parked at work would be perfect.
True. Another situation where this comes in useful is if you ran out of battery. Instead of having the car towed, let it recharge just enough to get it home. The system can also be used as a source of backup power for your house when the power goes out.
couldnt you just get a couple of foldable solar panels and use them? that way while your car sits in the sun at work its charging.
Bill Tamerlane
I imagine its as useful as having a reserve tank on a petrol car.
I been trying to charge a 2018 chevy volt with 3000w pure sinewave inverter, 300ah lithium battery. It wont work, the charge connector would give error light; i believe it's the "ground" problem of the inverter. I tried other inverters, too. I am surprised your charge connector does not give error lights. Good job.
I had the same issue. Connect neutral(white) and ground together to get rid of the ground fault.
Boys, I figured it out....
th-cam.com/video/n1u4QVkqhUE/w-d-xo.html
Thank You for All that you are doing for our Planet Earth.... Peace.. Shalom.. Salam.. Namaste 🙏🏻 😊 🌈 ✌ ☮ ❤
Did you consider a small 2kva generator It would easily sit on the back seat?
Did you consider that he does *NOT* use gasoline ?
Q: Is it possible to charge whilst driving? Or is it necessary to turn off the car between charges?
Love the concept, it'd be sweet to see the trunk packed full of Lithium batts as well. It would be a bit pricey I'm sure.
Thanks. Yes, lithium was just too expensive to justify. Ended up finding a free fast charger on the way to work so never ended using the setup as intended. Now, I have the system in my house so I can run some appliances off of battery power during peak hours when electricity is expensive and charge the batteries during off peak. But I like having these batteries for emergency purpose if I were ever to run out of juice on the road, saves me a tow.
Great idea! Had a power outage the other day here in Denver and a battery bank would have been real nice! Best of luck to you.
I like it. Trying to come up with a way to charge up via solar but slow charging sucks. Trying to justify the cost.
You are very creative! This is a good attempt, but to be truly useful you can figure out how to tap in directly to the 360(?) volts of the main battery and extend the battery directly, while driving! There's a guy who attempted that with the Leaf. Also, you would want to use a lithium pack eventually, and put it on a trailer so you don't need to carry the weight except when you need the range.
Thanks !!! Your simple explain
Excellent concept and execution! this setup would be useful for multiple applications... looks heavy though... how much does the set up weigh?
Whoops you just said it...
Need to finish the video before commenting!
Goto down for sound I’m gonna look up the Lithium batteries they have
How you do that there
Is there DC to DC charging?
Level 3 chargers are DC to DC
"CHADEMO"
Use the dewalt battery power station and use all 60 volt max batteries,
one short question. Can you charge while driving? or the spark ev disable the charge port?
Plugging in an EV will disable the car from being able to start, if the car is already running then typically the car gets automatically switched back to acc. only mode. It would take some hacking and breaking into the battery pack to be able the feed power to the pack via an external 400v DC charger.
Paul, How about an update. Today is 7.22.17 haven't heard how this has worked out for you or if there have been improvements in the long run.
Thanks from another DIY HACKER.
How much % you can charg?
Efficiency works like this.
Battery charger to battery pack efficiency say 90%
Inverter say 90 %
Battery charger to car battery pack say 90 %
Car motor controller say 90 %
Electric car motor efficiency say 90%
Total efficiency 0.9x0.9x0.9x0.9x0.9 = 59% and thats being generous it may actually be below 50%
So yes it does work no doubt but perhaps there is a better way.
I put a 2kW petrol generator in the boot with a fitted exhaust and ran that through my car charger, it worked.
Just keep in mind though that you have to keep a record of how many km you got out of your MAIN battery pack before it had to be replaced and how much that worked out to per km. Lead acid batteries are about 10x more expensive than using gasoline.
I do like the fact that you can charge it while you at work though without having to ask the Boss if you can plug in thats what makes it a reasonable idea if you cant plug in at work
If you fitted a kWH meter to your power in line and could prove how much you using then you can pay for a full charge while you at work even although its so little.
He has a level 2 charger for his spark where he can quick charge.
What about dc fast charge port?
Very smart. Impressed. How many miles did you extend with three batteries?
Why don't you try to mount a small generator instead.
@@truthmatters5536 If he wanted to use *gasoline* , then he would own a gasoline powered car !
They sell ultra lightweight performance car batteries that weigh 1/3 of the weight of most car batteries. A better range extend option is to build a battery pack with the same voltage as your onboard battery pack and run it in parallel (doubles your range)
Thank you for that! Seems Shaky AT BEST, BUT a solution Thank You. If a DIY can do it, why not the Industry?
You should try a supercapacitor bank. Put a small solar panel on the roof of the car or have a pole mount attached to the car and have the solar panel track the sun. Solar panel charges the supercapacitors and when full can DC fast charge to the EV. Throughout the day the cycle would repeat.
will this work on a toyoda prius?
A small 2200 watt Ryobi inverter generator in the trunk is the way to go. It is small, and rated at 120V at 15 Amps. It weighs 52 lbs.
Better yet. Install a class one hitch receiver. Put a luggage carrier with a lithium battery pack and inverter with charger permanently mounted to the carrier. Folding adjustable height wheels flip down from the carrier when you want to pull the pin and leave the whole thing behind for all but long trips. Many charging stations have a free 110 outlet where you can plug in while charging your car's traction battery. A light weight gas generator inverter mounted in the carrier would work also.
th-cam.com/video/n1u4QVkqhUE/w-d-xo.html
It fits in my Spark's trunk
Where is your ground connection
good way to disconnect the batteries from the charger is probably an electric relay , one rated at 250 amps or so
with how you have connected your inverter cables to your battery bank you will cause the first battery to be used more than battery 2 and 3 Electricity takes the shortest path never forget this rule, so to solve this just turn one of your bus bars around so the cable is at the other end,
No, electricity takes *ALL* of the paths
@@vtorsi610 not at the same rate
This same setup didn't work on a 500e
There’s inverters that can be used in dual mode to charge your batteries. Would have save you a lot of money.
Cool video! I'm really glad I have a Volt that makes this issue (range anxiety) mute.
what a gtreat idea if you want a 250 amp cut off switch jeggs speed shop has them online they sell race car parts nice job dude i thought youd get more than 6 miles though .
He would likely get more range if he upgrades his batteries from marine batteries to higher energy density lithium iron phosphate ones, but those would likely be more expensive, but probably still worth it. He would likely get another 24 miles range just for doing that and only a tiny bit more weight. He can improve on efficiency too if he swaps his inverter for a 48VDC --> 240VAC one as it requires less amperage and would dissipate less heat. Then he could use 4 Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries for the 48V which are lighter for more power.
was that invertor pure signwave or modified?
It says pure in the description and he says pure in the video. Maybe he should text and email it to you also? LOL
Hello my friend, good video , but I thik cables is better than solid connections,
I dont recommend batterys exposes like this becouse produce acid vapors
And you need put under batterys a battery plastic tray with drains, you can find on Rv storage. Good luck..
nice idea for emergency
This is brilliant. I have discussed with a friend who has a Volt and he's interested as a way to extend his electric range.
Owing to the Peukert Effect, it is better to use your lower wattage inverter and the 8 amp charge, anyhow, as you discharge the batteries slower and thereby maximize their capacity.
Anyone who says a generator is better, no way. Any suitcase generator you'd reasonably be able to carry, such as a Honda EU2000, would give you about the same added range as this, but you'll wear it out in a short time running it close to full tilt as you'd have to, plus how many places do you have adequate security to set up a generator and run it unattended without fear of it being stolen or vandalized? How many places want a gas engine running in the parking lot for hours? And if it rains, the generator is likely going to be damaged. Moreover you have to carry gas in the passenger compartment of your vehicle. Bad idea.
You can also use your setup to reduce deep cycling of your car's onboard battery, extending its life. I would use this to charge your battery anytime you anticipate running below 50 percent, reducing the depth of discharge of the car battery.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Suggestion.Install a class one hitch receiver. Put a luggage carrier with a lithium battery pack and inverter with charger permanently mounted to the carrier. Folding adjustable height wheels flip down from the carrier when you want to pull the pin and leave the whole thing behind for all but long trips. Many charging stations have a free 110 outlet where you can plug in while charging your car's traction battery. A light weight gas generator inverter mounted in the carrier would work also. A plastic cover over the system would protect it from the elements. For my Kia soul EV on a 90 mile round trip where I spend two and a half hours at the destination before returning home, With this system, I wouldn't have to stop at the charging station on the return trip home.
A portable, folding solar panel charging system could be mounted to a luggage carrier. It could stand up in the carrier on an angle facing the sun and charge the car. It could even fold up and over the cars roof with some cleverly designed quick disconnect mounts on the car.
Make a video of it
..good idea ..The best way you can drive home ..i can use same charge my Renault Twizy ..
Why don't you upgrade your battery pack size ?
For example
10kwh battery pack
Use 72kwh battery pack it will gives you long range
so basically if you just added a pure sine wave generator in the boot you would have better range than lead acid batteries!
I think it is more efficient (energy and money-wise) if you just add a Gas-Powered Portable Generator instead.
yamato908 That is very true. The very first Tesla prototype had a small trailer carrying a gas generator, for long range trips. Tzero was the name of it..... Very fast car☺
I’m thinking of putting a hitch on my Fiat 500 e then a basket that would hold the 38lb harbor freight 2-stroke generator that would charge while you drive 😀
What kind of generator? Remember cost
True. Also do not flight Legacy batteries fuel cells
Great idea but 6-10 miles, Also 8amp charging=about 2kwh your inverter is rated 1.2kwh and 2.4kwh peak, so should fail after a few minutes. Next the deep cycle battery is good for perhaps 300 cycles, so 300x10=3000miles the 3 batteries and inverter and bits, lets say $600 600/3000 + electric -efficiency 35-40 cents per mile best guess.
However i'm not criticising, i like the idea.
I think a light weight 2.5kwh petrol generator would be a better idea.
When charging and discharging these vented lead acid, marine batteries, you'll be producing hydrogen gas which can accumulate at ceiling level in your Spark. By placing the inverter right next to your batteries, you'll be sucking not only hydrogen gas in through the inverters fan but also acid mist. A single spark from a relay in your inverter or a loose battery lead and you've provided an excellent source for ignition. I would be extremely careful about using this device with the windows rolled up. I don't know if you've ever seen a vented battery blow up, but I have, and it isn't pretty between the damage caused by the explosion but also the sulfuric acid that is sprayed everywhere. For your safety and for your EV's sake. I would suggest switching to sealed AGM LA batteries or better yet, lightweight, sealed Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries.
Thia is a great idea!
This would be much practical if you can do dc to dc charge a EV.
A Li ion battery or a power bank would be much smaller and practical.
Just buy a portable generator. Its about the same weight and can produce much more electricity. Or just owna a Volt so that you have that ICE to use when going out of EV range.
+Paul Di Maggio Nice job mate.
That inverter, is very much obsolete. I would have found a way to connect the batteries with the main battery together.
Change the lead acid to LiFE4Po batteries. Yes it works, but LiFE4Po batteries are far less expensive if you do this often, and have practically double the usable power.
Good idea, and fine for once in a while. :) Extra fine if you have solar panels already and can recharge the batteries from the solar.
You could also just carry the 12-110 V inverted and a Jump Start cable
in case you are stranded and use any ICE to give you a jump.
The issue is that you have to carry all of those extra batteries and also a battery charger.