The minoans are a fascinating mystery. Studying the genome of them is the key to understanding where they would come from. I hope to see more videos about them and what you uncover in the future. KILLER INTRO!
Hello, Dr. Revesz! I really appreciated the video. The haplo groups were interesting, and seeing how the different mutations were prevalent in different geographical areas was also noteworthy.
Thank you! Archaeogenetics has become the preferred way to trace the movement of people in prehistory. However, the traditional method of using art motifs on pottery is still useful for this purpose. I have also a video on art motifs that you may be interested in: th-cam.com/video/7RunFz_clqY/w-d-xo.html
Hi Dr. Revesz, thanks for the interesting video! I'd never heard of the AmtDB, but I think it's really interesting to be able to compare ancient DNA from across thousands of years, and it's really cool you get to work directly with this information! Looking forward to your next video!
It is amazing to get DNA data from thousands of years ago. What is even more interesting is that the database grows exponentially. In a few years we will have a much clearer picture than we can get today. It's indeed exciting to work in this field.
Thank you very much for the video, it is really informative to understanding the Minoans and the origin of their different groups. Great work and looking forward to upcoming videos on the same!
Thank you. Archaeogenetics provides supporting evidence that the Middle Minoans used some Finno-Ugric language. Future videos will focus on the language of the Minoan scripts.
Dear professor! Thank you very much for the valuable work you do in researching the languages and prehistory of the Hungarian (and other) peoples! 👍❤ We hope that the time will soon come when his works will be used as teaching material in schools in Hungary and abroad. When Hungarian history does not begin with Árpád leading his people to the Vereckei Strait in 895 to occupy the "new homeland...
While most linguists assume that language families started in the Neolithic or even the Mesolithic, it is hard to correlate the archaeological record with possible homeland theories. Please take a look at my video on archaeognetics for more information about this issue: th-cam.com/video/gN_2Ok1gnLo/w-d-xo.html
I love the punch line. Deciphering linear a! Like reading maya by using native speakers from the local areas. Maybe this video will inspire a language person into trying that key and seeing where it leads. Maybe the Minoans learned their boat building skills on the Danube? Great video all around. Thank You for posting it here for the laymen of the world
Thank you for your comment. I suppose the Danube Delta area would be the most likely source of the Minoans at the beginning of the Middle Minoan period. This video is a part of a series on my channel about the Minoans. If you are interested in my decipherment work, then please see the following: th-cam.com/video/PiLyN9T2stY/w-d-xo.html
Huh, that's interesting as hell. This guy's really good at explaining the actual evidence behind his findings and the actual methods professionals use, even to audiences that are uninformed about the subject. I wonder if we know about the material cultures of their ancestors, the groups from the Danube and fertile crescent, as in if we have any artifacts that we know correlate to those people and what said artifact says about their culture.
Hello. Haplogroups are different than autosomal DNA, I assume you know that. X and Y chromosomes are merely 2 out of the total 64 we have (32 pairs). Thus, haplogroups are 0.4% of our DNA and are used only to study ancient population migration patterns. The autosomal DNA of Minoans was analyzed alongside Mycenaean autosomal DNA in the study "Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans" (it's free to download online). What was discovered confirmed what we already knew from previous studies; Minoans were Anatolian farmers, and also the ancestors of Mycenaeans and thus, of modern Greeks.
You may not know that the Y chromosome haplogroups were already shown by Peter Forster and Colin Renfrew to be correlated with language. See "Mother Tongue and Y Chromosomes," Science, Sept. 2011, science.sciencemag.org/content/333/6048/1390.summary Forster and Renfrew explain this correlation as a social affect of patriarchy and obtaining wives from outside one's group. Hence the connection between the Y-haplogroup and language is clearly established and understood, while no study exists that shows any significant correlation between autosomal DNA and language. Peter Forster and Colin Renfrew's evidence is based on the study of patriarchal societies. Marija Gimbutas pointed out the change in social organization from matriarchal or matrilineal to patriarchal in Europe around 3000 BC. In matriarchal and matrilineal societies husbands settle in the environment of their wives and their children aquire their mothers' language. In such societies, instead of the purely paternally inherited Y chromosomes, the purely maternally inherited mtDNA plays a similar role and is highly correlated with language. Hence if the Finno-Ugric homeland was in the Danube Basin before 3000 BC and if the Finno-Ugric people had a matriarchal or matrilineal social organization, then it can be assumed that Finno-Ugric languages spread from that homeland towards north, east and south with their mtDNAs. The video proves the spread of mtDNAs and in the north and east (near the Ural Mountains) Finno-Ugric languages can be found. Hence the assumption that the southward movement also brought a Finno-Ugric language to Crete in the Midddle Minoan period has a coherent and logical basis.
@@PeterRevesz Thank you for the elaborate reply. That's very interesting but unrelated to my original point. I merely pointed out that the genetics of the Minoans aren't a mystery as they have already been analyzed. When we talk about "genetics" or "DNA" without specific context it is assumed that we are talking about autosomal DNA - for example when we ask someone "What's your DNA test results?" he will tell us his autosomal DNA test results. That is why my original comment (about the autosomal DNA of the Minoans) was in relation to the video's title.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 The description of the video says that it "presents a novel and surprising analysis of the Minoan archaeogenetic data published by other authors earlier." The mystery was never going to be in the genes themselves but in what they imply. The implication shown in the video is that the Middle Minoans came from the Danube Basin during the Bronze Age. This is new and for most people surprising. When people discuss "What's your DNA test results?" they are not interested in mere labels but want to know what it implies about their origins. That inseparable question is the real mystery for many people, and it needs to be answered as fully as possible. Clearly, the earlier answers regarding the origin of the Middle Minoans were less precise than the current answer.
@@PeterRevesz We already know that there was a very small Steppe element introduced to Mycenaeans (descendants of Minoans) as they reached mainland Greece. Are you referring to that by "Danube"? As for genetic origins, we learn that by autosomal DNA, not haplogroups. Haplogroups are 0.4% of an individual's DNA (2 chromosomes out of 64), I'm pretty sure the other 99.6% is a bit more important. As you can see in the study I mentioned, nobody came from the North. There have been theories about a genetic influx and possible genetic replacemet even, by northern people that moved to the south Mediterranean - but all of these theories have been disproven after autosomal genomes of ancient Mediterraneans were analyzed not too long ago. Minoans and Mycenaeans (and by extension modern Greeks, who resemble the Mycenaeans) were predominantly Anatolian farmers - 80% or more of their DNA is derived from that ancient population. This hasn't changed. However I sense that you are implying that this has, in fact, changed.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 The Danube Basin is very different from the Pontic-Capian Steppe. Around 3000 BC, the Danube Basin had a mixed population that originated from two places: (1) native Mesolithic Europeans and (2) Neolithic Anatolians, who brought agriculture to the region that the native people also adopted. The resulting mixed-population farming community lived together for thousands of years, during which unique genetic mutations were accumulated. According to the currently available archaeogenetic data, these unique mutations appear in the Danube Basin area first and in Crete later, during the Middle Minoan period. This implies a population movement from the Danube Basin to Crete. Your calculation of 0.4% is incorrect because the mitochondrial DNA (or mtDNA) is not part of the 64 nuclear chromosomes. Anyway, I got the point that you think that the mtDNA is a negligible amount of DNA. I explained in my first reply, that this negligible amount of DNA has an outsized influence on what language children learn in a matriarchal or matrilineal society such as the Danube Basin civilization. The autosomal method used in the Nature paper claims an 80% Anatolian farmer origin in the Minoans and the Mycenaeans. This is consistent with what the video says. The video did not say that only European Mesolithic origin people moved to Crete. The video said that the mixed population that I described above moved to Crete. If in the mixed population the gene pool was 50% Anatolian farmer and 50% European Mesolithic hunter-gatherer in origin, then after moving to Crete and mixing there with earlier groups who also came from Anatolia, the resulting gene pool could have approximately 80% Anatolian origin.
****UPDATE****: Skourtanioti et al. (2023) in Nature Ecology & Evolution provided an autosomal DNA study that confirms the mitochondrial DNA study described in this video and my Revesz (2019) paper. Some quotes from the Skourtanioti et al. (2023) paper: "The six individuals from Neolithic Aposelemis cluster with other early European and Anatolian/Aegean farmers." "However, the LBA ones additionally share alleles with contemporaneous or earlier (Mesolithic) populations from Central and Eastern Europe..." The above implies a gene flow from Central and Eastern Europe to Crete sometime during the Middle Minoan period or around 1700 BC when the Minoan Linear A script first appeared on Crete.
Amazing! I found myself looking into the Udmurts because I was always told Irish are red haired because Udmurts are red haired! I don’t know if this is true but it made me look at the interesting case of the WHG ancestry in these groups standing out. Sintashta-corded ware-narva culture-kunda culture-swiderian culture-ahrensburg culture- Please let me know if my thoughts hold any weight or relevance. I’d be honored to receive criticism 👍
Thank you for the question. Finno-Ugric linguists believe that the Udmurts stayed in place for thousands of years based on palaeolinguistics and toponymy (The Oxford Guide to the Uralic Languages, p. 45-46). The Udmurts live mostly in Udmurtia, which is near the area as the old Sintashta culture. The video shows the Sintashta culture as an eastern extension of the Corded Ware culture at 8:28. Meanwhile, the Corded Ware culture also spread to the northwest, and this sperad could have reached Ireland eventually. Hence, there could be some connections as you said.
Fascinating! Dr Revesz, how much does your hypothesis depend on the matrilineal/matriarchal nature of the proto-uralic society in the Danube basin? Is there any evidence from accompanying Ydna lineages to support this hypothesis?
The G2a2 and J2a1 yDNA haplogroups are common in the Minoan and the Old European archaeogenetic samples. The northern Finno-Ugric peoples lived in a matrilineal society, in which the yDNA can be replaced without a change in language. In the Corded Ware culture the R1a yDNA is common while the mtDNAs are shared with the Minoan and Old European cultures. This can be counted as the first yDNA replacement. Today, the R1a yDNA is still common in Estonia and Hungary, but in most other Finno-Ugric groups the N1c yDNA seems to have replaced it. This can be counted as the second yDNA replacement.
@@PeterRevesz So it seems your hypothesis is very dependent on the matrilineal and perhaps even matriarchal nature of 'old European' society. I find this problematic. Gimbutas' may have been proved right about the invasions of the kurgan builders (by DNA studies), but her idea of a matriarchal old European society is a romantic one and lacking in evidence. The persistence of mtDNA haplogroups alone is not enough to prove this, in my opinion.
@@PeterRevesz I think we should make a distinction between matrilineal and matriarchal. Jewish society is the first but not the second. I was really asking you for corroborating evidence from archeology or ethnography or historical lingusitics for your perspective. The problem with relying on Gimbutas is that her view was romantic, it idealised the peaceful and mother-worshipping 'old Europeans' and deplored the influence of the violent kurgan-building Indo-Europeans. aDNA suggests that Gimbutas was right about the importance of immigration into Europe. This does not prove that she was right about everything else.
A recent archaeogenetic study of the Charalambos samples shows that two of them had the plague bacterium Yersinia pestis, which was also observed in Late Neolithic and Bronze Age Europe: www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(22)01101-0
Very interesting. So you are saying the Uralgic languages are mesolithic, and some of the Fertile Crescent farmers who moved up the Danube early adopted this language, and possibly spread it south. I like your point about people and their genetics are a different issue than language. (I am having the same debate with others about Celtic Ireland, which has no Celtic DNA.) You say the people of Crete are a DNA admixture but their language came from just one of those DNA sources - the original Danube basin language. Where does the Vinca culture fit in then? I would also like to ask if you feel there are any legacy Uralgic languages in Italy. (Or did you say already you think Etruscan is related?)
Thank you for your question. The Neolithic civilization in the Danube Valley, including Marija Gimbutas' Old European civilization, and the Vinča culture, likely spoke some Uralic language, which already existed in Southeastern Europe in the Epigravettian culture. The Neolithic farmer settlers from the Fertile Crescent/Anatolia came steadily but in small numbers over thousands of years. Hence they always adopted the local Uralic language, although the Danube Basin gene pool changed considerably. There is a growing evidence for an early genetic admixture of local hunter gatherers (Uralic speakers) and Anatolian farmers. See for example this recent paper from Germany: www.nature.com/articles/s42003-020-01627-4 I share your curiosity about the Etruscans. However, I feel that I did not study the Etruscan inscriptions in enough detail to be able to say anything as definite about them as I can say about the Minoan inscriptions. The Minoan inscriptions clearly show a language of the Uralic type, something that seems close to Proto-Hungarian according to the current knowledge of Uralic linguists. That much has been already accepted by other researchers. For that reason, I received a best paper award at an international conference held in Budapest, Hungary last year.
@@PeterRevesz I was thinking about why the language of the Danube basin prevailed. If the farmers came in small, slow numbers and wanted to establish good relations with the natives, then they would probably offer marriage alliances. I think we can safely assume they were polygamous. This means the first language whispered into the ears of babies within the new farms would be that of their native mothers, not of the migrant fathers.
Ez igen érdekes, új információ, köszönöm a feliratozást. Annyit helyesbítenék, hogy a magyar nem finnugor nyelv. 200-300 közös szó nem rokonságot jelez, hanem átvételt csupán. Nincsenek közös gyökszavaink, tudtommal nem jellemző a többi finn-ugor nyelvre a szóbokrok képzése.
Anélkül, hogy a nyelvrokonság kérdésében állást foglalnék, arra kívánok rámutatni, hogy nyelvrokonságot elsősorban nem szavak hasonlóságából állapítjuk meg, mert a szókészlet a nyelvnek az a része, amelyik leggyorsabban változik. Nyelvtani funkciók, végződése, ragok, toldalékok, mondattani, hangtani jelenségek sokkal fontosabbak. Egy példa: 'The Admission Office refused the student's application'. A mondatban minden lexikai jelentéssel bíró szó latin eredetü. De attól az angol nyelv nem lesz latin, megmarad germánnak, mert minden nyelvtani funkció germán; the (határozott névelő), -ed (időjel), s (birtokos rag).
@@istvankozma2352 Words like 'hand' and 'man' belong to the basic vocabulary of English, and they have German cognates. Words like 'admission' and 'office' do not belong to the basic vocabulary of the English language. They are obvious Romance language borrowings. The cognate words determine the classification of a language rather than the borrowed words. Hence English is a Germanic language.
@@PeterRevesz Meg is nézte azokat a szóegyezéseket? Mert én több százat végigmazsoláztam, ha nem is 800-at. Azokat a szavakat, amik kettőnél több betűváltozáson mentek át, és tartalmukban se fedik pontosan egymást, én komolytalannak, erőltetettnek tartom. Azokat is, amik a nyelvcsaládnak csak egy ágával hozható össze. Ahogy István is írja, a nyelvtan az elsődleges, mert az nehezebben változik. Legjobb példa erre, ha ma átveszünk bármely idegen szót, magyar nyelvtannal ragozzuk. Ezért kérdeztem, melyik épül gyökrendszerre a finnugor nyelvek közül, és melyik képez szóbokrokat. Nem válaszolt erre. Ami módszer jó az indoeurópai nyelvekre, azt nem lehet ráhúzni a magyarra, mert butaságok jönnek ki belőle, már bocsánat. Igen, van halvány genetikai kapcsolat velük, de az az utolsó jégkorszakig nyúlik vissza, és a Kárpát-medencébe. A felmelegedés hatására a vadászállatok északabbra húzódtak. A vadászok egy része ment utánuk, ment keletre, és le délkeletre is, egy részük pedig a nagy olvadáskor magasabb területekre húzódott vissza. Tehát a nyelv itt volt őshonos, nem a honfoglalók hozták. Ha nem így lenne, Ön se tudta volna megfejteni a magyar nyelv segítségével a lineáris "A" írást. Ahogy igen jól levezette a genetikai, és a kulturális videóiban, a Kárpát-medencéből népesült be egyik fele Krétának. Akkor nyilvánvaló, hogy a nyelvet is vitték magukkal, amit beszéltek az itt élő emberek. Szóval az a pár közös szó még az őseurópai vadászok idejéből való, ami semmi esetre sincs 800. Csakhogy közben a termékeny félholdról jöttek a földművelők, és 1500 év alatt 80%-ban felülírták az európai vadászok génjeit. Sehol máshol ekkora mértékben nem történt meg Európában(Török-Neparáczki). Nos, ez akkora arány, ami hatással lehetett a nyelvre is. Egyetlen eset, amikor a Kárpát-medence őslakosságának a génállományát ekkora mértékben írták felül. Az őslakosság mindig túlsúlyban volt az évezredek alatt, bármennyi nép viharzott is át rajtunk, telepedett ránk több-kevesebb ideig. Így lehetséges, hogy még ma is 56%-ot őrzünk a vadász-földművelő génkeverékéből.
Wow, you confirmed the leads I have been following that have indicated the Turul Saker Falcon peoples of the Free (became Urigic-Finno) came down into the Danube (roughly modern Hungry). That those KOS peoples hybridized with peoples of Sumer and Akkadians and because of foundry techniques they found their way into the Eastern Nile Delta known as the Hyksos (they eventually got chased out by the Sub-Saharan Pharaohs) and they fortified themselves in Ancient Jerusalem.
There are many interesting connections among ancient peoples. I suggest that you also watch my video on trade relations between Bronze Age Greece and India: th-cam.com/video/pW5mbJL4Xyo/w-d-xo.html
Ground-breaking, mind-blowing, breath-taking! The figurine of the bull-leaper is the most beautiful, graceful thing. Love your music. Your point about the inappropriate deduction is so true - common sense indicates the two sites with iron nails are more similar. Stats can be misleading.
In regard the names of the Crete Ugric mtDNA samples @3:08. It took a while but the 2nd came easier. The First cave was named as "ӧти вит руа доныс" (öti vit rua donõs). The Greek name forms are incorrect and contain errors. Nonetheless the Greek names can be taken and the original name restored despite all the short comings because the name itself retains enough of the Crete Ugric substrate. "Ӧти вит руа доныс" (öti vit rua donõs) stands for "firm five foggy be worthy". It has becoming more and more clear the Crete Ugric people were very avid sailors and fog or ру (ru) plays a big part in their vocabulary especially in boundaries between the plots or certain mediums. The reference to five foggy remains uncertain but it's pivotal concept of their world perception. Fog is ру (ru) and foggy is руа (rua). The second cave was named as "шар ёна ма эбӧс" (šar jena ma ebös) standing for "globe yearns honey vigor / physical strength". Note that the earth as planet Earth was known to be round already for the Crete Ugric peoples as "шар" (šar) specifically means round Earth like a ball. The Russian word шар is Crete Ugric substrate. The both places are dedicated cemeteries. The first belonged to the avid sailors. The second belonged to avid farmers. Already the name of the 2nd graveyard reveals they knew exactly how to honour their dead. I can reveal that I've found two distinct Crete Ugric settlements in Estonia. One is specifically in Muhu and the other is at Iru or upstream of the Pirita river to the future Iru pre-historic stronghold. When Muhu Crete island settlers used the Knossos name convention logic in Kuivastu name then the one's who settled in Iru, some 30 km East of Tallinn, used very different name conventions but distinguishably Crete island Ugric substrate. I also can confirm that Sumerian substrate in Tallinna toponyms are very clearly present. In fact Sumerian substrate is present in Viru county, in the future Tallinn, and in South-Estonian languages like Seto, Kraasi, and Lutsi. Even more than that the name Lindanisa, that is thought to be associated with pre-historic Tallinn, is 100% Sumerian substrate and it can be translated into meaningful concept. The concept at @8:39 by 2017 Lehti Saag et. al "Extensive farming in Estonia started through sex-biased migration from the steppe" is encoded into the Sumerian substrate name Lindanisa. From the toponyms on Muhu the Crete Ugric peoples grow barley as that fact is encoded in the Lõetsa river name. Also harvesting honey was their other main agriculture activity. Both Sumerians and Crete Ugric peoples travelled as far North as to the Koola peninsula as the name Koola is Sumerian substrate and the Murmansk is Crete Ugric substrate. They both knew of a natural phenomenon in the Koola peninsula close to the White Sea where the ships with the crew got lost due to that. I can tell for sure Sumerians and Minonians interacted with each other and they have specific substrates. Who interacted with whom and who had the most impact will be investigate. The way how the vocabulary shaped and it remained will tell whose impact was significant. One important caveat. The Crete island Ugric peoples can't be called Minoans. They never called themselves as such and the meaning does not exist. There are nouns ме нас (me nas) and ми нас (mi nas) where ме нас (me nas) is the elected elder and the ми нас (mi nas) is the elected elders' council. Ugric peoples never had kings. They had and still have elders. Elders' council is an important entity of governing. The same concept is reflected among the Sumerian names, thus these names are function names not their birth names. Thus, I've started to call them the Crete Ugric civilization. I think I can derive their real name as there is a method how Sumerian derived their own name. The same principle will be later used to name Ukraine. P.S. Kyiv and the founder of Kyiv, have Crete island Ugric substrate in them. This is supported by the observation the coat of arms of Ukraine is the horns from the Knossos palace.
The name of Kyiv seems related to Finnish kivi 'stone' and archaic Hungarian keve 'stone' that is preserved today in the personal name Keve. Downtown Kyiv is built on a rocky hill, which prominently stands out from a relatively flat landscape.
@@PeterRevesz Actually the name Kyiv is derived from the founder's name who was Ky or Kyi. For me this is not surprising as I've discovered that Ukraine ethnos in their pre Christening carried not just Ugric cultural and religion legacy but also have till this day representation of Crete Ugric and Sumerian heritage. For instance the centre part of their Coat of Arms is a Sumerian war club. In that sense the details are starting to make sense but when told for the first time need to explain the background information to help others to catch up.
well done video! i don't know much about genetics, but i've paid more attention to mythologies. it might not be your cup of tea, but for some evening reading i could suggest Oera Linda manuscript.. i can't remember too well everything from it as i was mostly searching for finnic stuff, but i recall they talking about Minerva and Frisians sailing and settling to mediterranean. I started copying pictures of Minoan scripts and alphabet tables, and as usual already seeing letters that aren't in alphabet tables. :D if they changed their letters over time like runic scripters, this might be a short study for me, lol.
Thank you. I'll check it out. If you are interested in the relationship of various ancient scripts, then you may like the following journal article that I wrote about the Cretan Script Family before translating Linear A: www.academia.edu/38843641/Bioinformatics_evolutionary_tree_algorithms_reveal_the_history_of_the_Cretan_Script_Family Parhain terveisin
Interesting theory but I don't understand why you didn't consider Y haplogroups at all. Did only women migrate? It doesn't seem plausible. Didn't mutations also occur on the Y chromosome during the hundreds of years before they left the Danube basin and headed towards Crete?
Mitochondrial DNA is much easier to obtain that y-DNA. A few years ago there were only few Minoan y-DNA samples. This situation has changed this year because of the recent paper by Skourtanioti et al. (2023) in Nature Ecology & Evolution. The analysis of all the data in Skourtanioti needs some time, but there seems to be some support for the things that you mention. When we will have over a hundred samples, then we will be able to see much clearer than now.
Dear Mr. Révész! The spatial grouping of DNA is very interesting and reasonable, so that the starting point of certain groups of peoples can be better identified, as well as the migration route and place of settlement of the part of the people detached from them. I would have a question as to how much the binding of blood groups to DNA can be narrowed. There is little writing about this, that from a DNA sample, the blood type can also be determined?
People's blood type is determined by their DNA sequences, in particular their ABO genes. The ABO genes that cause blood types have three main variations or alleles, A, B and O, which are only a few mutations apart from each other. Each person has two ABO genes. The O gene is biologically inactive, while both the A and B genes are active. The inactive/active nature of these genes explain the conventional blood type labels. A person who has both an A gene and B gene is said to have an AB blood type because A and B act together. A person who has both an A and an O gene is said to have an A blood type because A acts alone. Similarly, a person who has both a B and an O gene is said to have a B blood type because B acts alone. A person who has two O genes is said to have an O blood type. Hence in theory, we can tell the blood type of persons from their DNAs. Unfortunately, current archaeogenetic methods yield ancient DNA sequences that are often incomplete. Hence the retrieved ancient DNA may not always tell us the blood type.
@@PeterRevesz Thanks for your response! According to my readings, and if I understand correctly, does blood group AB develop independently of blood group AB0? To the best of my knowledge, its formation can be linked to the Carpathian Basin. Leaving the Carpathian Basin, the percentage suddenly decreases and disappears farther and farther, towards all four wedges. The strange thing is that the percentage of blood group AB in the territory of Egypt, similar to the percentage in the Carpathian Basin, moving away from the region, the percentage will disappear. So can the Carpathian Basin and this ethnic group of Egypt be linked? Therefore, I asked about the detection of blood type from ancient DNA in order to determine the time of migration.
@@attila3231 The ABO gene (not blood type) with three alleles occurs in each person in pairs. These pairs determine the person's blood type to be AB, A, B, or O. The percentages of AB, A, B and O blood types change gradually from country to country. Hence percentage statistics are not useful for detecting ancient relationship among people. This can be expected from the fact that the AB, A, B, and O blood type people can easily mix with each other. You may have heard about the RhD gene that has two alleles, the D allele which produces D antigens and the d allele which does not. These are indicated by adding a positive or a negative suffix to the above four blood types. For example, the A+ blood type means that the person has A blood type and also has the D allele. On the other hand, A- means that the person has A blood types and has the d allele. An RhD negative mother and an RhD positive father may have dificulty having children because of RhD incompatibility. The difficulty of mixing between RhD negative and positive people results in less gradual distribution of RhD types from populations to populations. RhD negative blood type is rare worldwide (6%) but is high in Basques (21-36 %) and Moroccans in the Atlas Mountains (29%). This suggests some ancient connection between these two groups.
btw that Danube civilization. Lazy to google now, the one from Varan museum anyway. There is strong evidence of early script form. (today Bulgaria?). Matriarchal society and disappear around the time pottery appeared in Crete. Are there links? (even between scripts? Although I would find it difficult for it. you never now)
Indeed, the Danube Valley/Basin Civilization had a writing that some archaeologists say may be the oldest in the world. There are some similarities to the Crean scripts, especially to Lnear A. The movement from the Danube Basin to Crete and the other Aegean islands makes ever more sense in this context.
@@PeterRevesz I am glad you also study genome. I have a feeling that one could reconstruct the immigration waves with genome movements and could cross-check it with linguistic movements. Especially if one could check as deep as 9000BC and unveil possible immigration routes that will be very intriguing indeed!
@@madamimadam4958 Certainly, archaeogenetics is a major aid in the study of ancient human migrations. The above video describes my genetic study that reveals the migration of Middle Minoans from the Danube Basin. The further we go back in time, the clearer the migration patterns become. Human populations mixed so much over time that today's European population is quite homogeneous with only gradual changes from the south to the north and from the east to the west. This gradual change also continues from Greece towards the Near East.
For the sake of all readers, could you please link here the reference? When we talk about homelands of various language families, it is important to consider that there could be several differnt homelands because proto-language groups may have migrated. In my video, the Uralic languages are said to have reached the Ural Mountains with the expansion of the Corded Ware Culture. After reaching that area, they may have spit into smaller groups.
@@PeterRevesz thanks it automatically got deleted veciz i have a link to my site Uralic sectiin where archeogenetics papers are listed.s how can i wrie a link to a paper i dont know
@@mehmetkurtkaya3106 I don't know what may be the problem because other people could add links. I think I found your webpage: sumerianturks.org/hungarian-finnish-turkish-uralic.htm The connection that you describe supports what was already known from earlier papers. In particular, it was shown that the Árpád dynasty had a Y chromosome that is rare in Hungary but is found in today's Bashkirs, who speak a Turkic language: www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z The first Árpád dynasty ruler led a conquest of Hungary at the end of the 9th century similar to William the Conqueror in England. In both cases, they established strong feudalistic kingdoms, and for that accomplishment they are highly regarded. However, the local languages only changed by adding many new words. I think that a possible Ural-Altaic connection cannot be explained by this 9th conquest. Its root needs to be sought many thousands of years earlier.
Mr Revesz ..your work BRAVISSIMO...but I wou;ld like if you can help me because I,m going crazy to understand how is Possibl;e so many MAGYAR /HUNGARIAN sounding names in ancient times ...UR,URUK,EREK,ARAD,ARPAD,KISH,KUTA , URU-SOLYMA>>>HIERO-SOLYMA /today Jerusalem /..mount TABOR , AVARIS.SAMOS , KARPATHOS ,KOS,POROS, CRETA islands !! You must know that those ONLY in magyar language making sence . I can go around the world with geographical names .....NO HISTORIAN CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION !!! YOU ARE MY LAST HOPE ...THANX
The study of toponyms is a very fascinating subject. In a data mining work, I also considered the origin of ancient European river and mountain names and came to the conclusion that they originate from the Near East, including some from Mesopotamia, and Africa. Please see a presentation about it here: th-cam.com/video/I_RCuwRx5hU/w-d-xo.html
หลายเดือนก่อน
The last wave of Hungarian led settlers into the Carpathian basin had cca. 40% Sarmatian genetic ancestry. So there could be a cultural heritage from the Iran region, and thus from the Sumerian culture. Sumerian was a lingua franca in that area for more than a thousand years. It did not disappear completely. The Hungarian myth of Hunor and Magor describes a marriage to women from the Alan tribe of Sarmatians. The genetics, the myths, some cultural heritage perfectly match. We Hungarians all learn a rhyme in the kindergarten that actually a hymn to the Sun God in Sumerian.
The minoans are a fascinating mystery. Studying the genome of them is the key to understanding where they would come from. I hope to see more videos about them and what you uncover in the future. KILLER INTRO!
Thank you for your comment. Indeed, I plan some more videos about the Minoan scripts and language.
Hello, Dr. Revesz! I really appreciated the video. The haplo groups were interesting, and seeing how the different mutations were prevalent in different geographical areas was also noteworthy.
Thank you! Archaeogenetics has become the preferred way to trace the movement of people in prehistory. However, the traditional method of using art motifs on pottery is still useful for this purpose. I have also a video on art motifs that you may be interested in: th-cam.com/video/7RunFz_clqY/w-d-xo.html
Hi Dr. Revesz, thanks for the interesting video! I'd never heard of the AmtDB, but I think it's really interesting to be able to compare ancient DNA from across thousands of years, and it's really cool you get to work directly with this information! Looking forward to your next video!
It is amazing to get DNA data from thousands of years ago. What is even more interesting is that the database grows exponentially. In a few years we will have a much clearer picture than we can get today. It's indeed exciting to work in this field.
Great work thank you Doctor, may your excellent studies continue to amaze us simple laymen.
I'm glad you like my videos.
Thank you very much for the video, it is really informative to understanding the Minoans and the origin of their different groups. Great work and looking forward to upcoming videos on the same!
Thank you. Archaeogenetics provides supporting evidence that the Middle Minoans used some Finno-Ugric language. Future videos will focus on the language of the Minoan scripts.
Dear professor! Thank you very much for the valuable work you do in researching the languages and prehistory of the Hungarian (and other) peoples! 👍❤
We hope that the time will soon come when his works will be used as teaching material in schools in Hungary and abroad. When Hungarian history does not begin with Árpád leading his people to the Vereckei Strait in 895 to occupy the "new homeland...
While most linguists assume that language families started in the Neolithic or even the Mesolithic, it is hard to correlate the archaeological record with possible homeland theories. Please take a look at my video on archaeognetics for more information about this issue: th-cam.com/video/gN_2Ok1gnLo/w-d-xo.html
Thank you for your videos. Very fascinating
Thank you for your comment. There are more videos planned, but they are always based on new research.
még csak most tudtanm megnézni nagyon érdekes volt köszi marika
Thank you for the comment. Köszönöm.
I love the punch line. Deciphering linear a! Like reading maya by using native speakers from the local areas. Maybe this video will inspire a language person into trying that key and seeing where it leads. Maybe the Minoans learned their boat building skills on the Danube? Great video all around. Thank You for posting it here for the laymen of the world
Thank you for your comment. I suppose the Danube Delta area would be the most likely source of the Minoans at the beginning of the Middle Minoan period. This video is a part of a series on my channel about the Minoans. If you are interested in my decipherment work, then please see the following: th-cam.com/video/PiLyN9T2stY/w-d-xo.html
Huh, that's interesting as hell. This guy's really good at explaining the actual evidence behind his findings and the actual methods professionals use, even to audiences that are uninformed about the subject. I wonder if we know about the material cultures of their ancestors, the groups from the Danube and fertile crescent, as in if we have any artifacts that we know correlate to those people and what said artifact says about their culture.
Thank you for your interest. There is a related video that covers Minoan art motifs: th-cam.com/video/7RunFz_clqY/w-d-xo.html
@@PeterRevesz Oh shit! That's hillarious! You were already way ahead of me, by half a year actually- thanks for that, can't wait to watch
Hello.
Haplogroups are different than autosomal DNA, I assume you know that. X and Y chromosomes are merely 2 out of the total 64 we have (32 pairs). Thus, haplogroups are 0.4% of our DNA and are used only to study ancient population migration patterns.
The autosomal DNA of Minoans was analyzed alongside Mycenaean autosomal DNA in the study "Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans" (it's free to download online). What was discovered confirmed what we already knew from previous studies; Minoans were Anatolian farmers, and also the ancestors of Mycenaeans and thus, of modern Greeks.
You may not know that the Y chromosome haplogroups were already shown by Peter Forster and Colin Renfrew to be correlated with language. See "Mother Tongue and Y Chromosomes," Science, Sept. 2011, science.sciencemag.org/content/333/6048/1390.summary
Forster and Renfrew explain this correlation as a social affect of patriarchy and obtaining wives from outside one's group. Hence the connection between the Y-haplogroup and language is clearly established and understood, while no study exists that shows any significant correlation between autosomal DNA and language.
Peter Forster and Colin Renfrew's evidence is based on the study of patriarchal societies. Marija Gimbutas pointed out the change in social organization from matriarchal or matrilineal to patriarchal in Europe around 3000 BC. In matriarchal and matrilineal societies husbands settle in the environment of their wives and their children aquire their mothers' language. In such societies, instead of the purely paternally inherited Y chromosomes, the purely maternally inherited mtDNA plays a similar role and is highly correlated with language.
Hence if the Finno-Ugric homeland was in the Danube Basin before 3000 BC and if the Finno-Ugric people had a matriarchal or matrilineal social organization, then it can be assumed that Finno-Ugric languages spread from that homeland towards north, east and south with their mtDNAs. The video proves the spread of mtDNAs and in the north and east (near the Ural Mountains) Finno-Ugric languages can be found. Hence the assumption that the southward movement also brought a Finno-Ugric language to Crete in the Midddle Minoan period has a coherent and logical basis.
@@PeterRevesz Thank you for the elaborate reply.
That's very interesting but unrelated to my original point. I merely pointed out that the genetics of the Minoans aren't a mystery as they have already been analyzed. When we talk about "genetics" or "DNA" without specific context it is assumed that we are talking about autosomal DNA - for example when we ask someone "What's your DNA test results?" he will tell us his autosomal DNA test results. That is why my original comment (about the autosomal DNA of the Minoans) was in relation to the video's title.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 The description of the video says that it "presents a novel and surprising analysis of the Minoan archaeogenetic data published by other authors earlier." The mystery was never going to be in the genes themselves but in what they imply. The implication shown in the video is that the Middle Minoans came from the Danube Basin during the Bronze Age. This is new and for most people surprising.
When people discuss "What's your DNA test results?" they are not interested in mere labels but want to know what it implies about their origins. That inseparable question is the real mystery for many people, and it needs to be answered as fully as possible. Clearly, the earlier answers regarding the origin of the Middle Minoans were less precise than the current answer.
@@PeterRevesz We already know that there was a very small Steppe element introduced to Mycenaeans (descendants of Minoans) as they reached mainland Greece. Are you referring to that by "Danube"?
As for genetic origins, we learn that by autosomal DNA, not haplogroups. Haplogroups are 0.4% of an individual's DNA (2 chromosomes out of 64), I'm pretty sure the other 99.6% is a bit more important. As you can see in the study I mentioned, nobody came from the North. There have been theories about a genetic influx and possible genetic replacemet even, by northern people that moved to the south Mediterranean - but all of these theories have been disproven after autosomal genomes of ancient Mediterraneans were analyzed not too long ago. Minoans and Mycenaeans (and by extension modern Greeks, who resemble the Mycenaeans) were predominantly Anatolian farmers - 80% or more of their DNA is derived from that ancient population. This hasn't changed. However I sense that you are implying that this has, in fact, changed.
@@aegeanenjoyer668 The Danube Basin is very different from the Pontic-Capian Steppe. Around 3000 BC, the Danube Basin had a mixed population that originated from two places: (1) native Mesolithic Europeans and (2) Neolithic Anatolians, who brought agriculture to the region that the native people also adopted. The resulting mixed-population farming community lived together for thousands of years, during which unique genetic mutations were accumulated. According to the currently available archaeogenetic data, these unique mutations appear in the Danube Basin area first and in Crete later, during the Middle Minoan period. This implies a population movement from the Danube Basin to Crete.
Your calculation of 0.4% is incorrect because the mitochondrial DNA (or mtDNA) is not part of the 64 nuclear chromosomes. Anyway, I got the point that you think that the mtDNA is a negligible amount of DNA. I explained in my first reply, that this negligible amount of DNA has an outsized influence on what language children learn in a matriarchal or matrilineal society such as the Danube Basin civilization.
The autosomal method used in the Nature paper claims an 80% Anatolian farmer origin in the Minoans and the Mycenaeans. This is consistent with what the video says. The video did not say that only European Mesolithic origin people moved to Crete. The video said that the mixed population that I described above moved to Crete. If in the mixed population the gene pool was 50% Anatolian farmer and 50% European Mesolithic hunter-gatherer in origin, then after moving to Crete and mixing there with earlier groups who also came from Anatolia, the resulting gene pool could have approximately 80% Anatolian origin.
I can only imagine that after humanity causes its own demise, future beings will wonder about the genetic origins of the Americans :-)
May be they would try to revive humans like we try to revive mammoths? reviverestore.org/projects/woolly-mammoth/
****UPDATE****: Skourtanioti et al. (2023) in Nature Ecology & Evolution provided an autosomal DNA study that confirms the mitochondrial DNA study described in this video and my Revesz (2019) paper.
Some quotes from the Skourtanioti et al. (2023) paper: "The six individuals from Neolithic Aposelemis cluster with other early European and Anatolian/Aegean farmers." "However, the LBA ones additionally share alleles with contemporaneous or earlier (Mesolithic) populations from Central and Eastern Europe..."
The above implies a gene flow from Central and Eastern Europe to Crete sometime during the Middle Minoan period or around 1700 BC when the Minoan Linear A script first appeared on Crete.
Amazing! I found myself looking into the Udmurts because I was always told Irish are red haired because Udmurts are red haired! I don’t know if this is true but it made me look at the interesting case of the WHG ancestry in these groups standing out.
Sintashta-corded ware-narva culture-kunda culture-swiderian culture-ahrensburg culture-
Please let me know if my thoughts hold any weight or relevance. I’d be honored to receive criticism 👍
Thank you for the question. Finno-Ugric linguists believe that the Udmurts stayed in place for thousands of years based on palaeolinguistics and toponymy (The Oxford Guide to the Uralic Languages, p. 45-46). The Udmurts live mostly in Udmurtia, which is near the area as the old Sintashta culture. The video shows the Sintashta culture as an eastern extension of the Corded Ware culture at 8:28. Meanwhile, the Corded Ware culture also spread to the northwest, and this sperad could have reached Ireland eventually. Hence, there could be some connections as you said.
Fascinating! Dr Revesz, how much does your hypothesis depend on the matrilineal/matriarchal nature of the proto-uralic society in the Danube basin? Is there any evidence from accompanying Ydna lineages to support this hypothesis?
The G2a2 and J2a1 yDNA haplogroups are common in the Minoan and the Old European archaeogenetic samples. The northern Finno-Ugric peoples lived in a matrilineal society, in which the yDNA can be replaced without a change in language. In the Corded Ware culture the R1a yDNA is common while the mtDNAs are shared with the Minoan and Old European cultures. This can be counted as the first yDNA replacement. Today, the R1a yDNA is still common in Estonia and Hungary, but in most other Finno-Ugric groups the N1c yDNA seems to have replaced it. This can be counted as the second yDNA replacement.
@@PeterRevesz So it seems your hypothesis is very dependent on the matrilineal and perhaps even matriarchal nature of 'old European' society. I find this problematic. Gimbutas' may have been proved right about the invasions of the kurgan builders (by DNA studies), but her idea of a matriarchal old European society is a romantic one and lacking in evidence. The persistence of mtDNA haplogroups alone is not enough to prove this, in my opinion.
@@maniplefringe What exactly do you think contradicts Marija Gimbutas' obervation that Old European society was matrilineal?
@@PeterRevesz I think we should make a distinction between matrilineal and matriarchal. Jewish society is the first but not the second. I was really asking you for corroborating evidence from archeology or ethnography or historical lingusitics for your perspective. The problem with relying on Gimbutas is that her view was romantic, it idealised the peaceful and mother-worshipping 'old Europeans' and deplored the influence of the violent kurgan-building Indo-Europeans. aDNA suggests that Gimbutas was right about the importance of immigration into Europe. This does not prove that she was right about everything else.
@@maniplefringe There is corroborating archaeogenetic evidence for matrilinearity.
A recent archaeogenetic study of the Charalambos samples shows that two of them had the plague bacterium Yersinia pestis, which was also observed in Late Neolithic and Bronze Age Europe: www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(22)01101-0
Thanks for the scholarly research and understandable explanation. I am learning much about this fascinating subject.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Very interesting. So you are saying the Uralgic languages are mesolithic, and some of the Fertile Crescent farmers who moved up the Danube early adopted this language, and possibly spread it south. I like your point about people and their genetics are a different issue than language. (I am having the same debate with others about Celtic Ireland, which has no Celtic DNA.) You say the people of Crete are a DNA admixture but their language came from just one of those DNA sources - the original Danube basin language. Where does the Vinca culture fit in then? I would also like to ask if you feel there are any legacy Uralgic languages in Italy. (Or did you say already you think Etruscan is related?)
Thank you for your question. The Neolithic civilization in the Danube Valley, including Marija Gimbutas' Old European civilization, and the Vinča culture, likely spoke some Uralic language, which already existed in Southeastern Europe in the Epigravettian culture. The Neolithic farmer settlers from the Fertile Crescent/Anatolia came steadily but in small numbers over thousands of years. Hence they always adopted the local Uralic language, although the Danube Basin gene pool changed considerably. There is a growing evidence for an early genetic admixture of local hunter gatherers (Uralic speakers) and Anatolian farmers. See for example this recent paper from Germany: www.nature.com/articles/s42003-020-01627-4
I share your curiosity about the Etruscans. However, I feel that I did not study the Etruscan inscriptions in enough detail to be able to say anything as definite about them as I can say about the Minoan inscriptions. The Minoan inscriptions clearly show a language of the Uralic type, something that seems close to Proto-Hungarian according to the current knowledge of Uralic linguists. That much has been already accepted by other researchers. For that reason, I received a best paper award at an international conference held in Budapest, Hungary last year.
@@PeterRevesz I was thinking about why the language of the Danube basin prevailed. If the farmers came in small, slow numbers and wanted to establish good relations with the natives, then they would probably offer marriage alliances. I think we can safely assume they were polygamous. This means the first language whispered into the ears of babies within the new farms would be that of their native mothers, not of the migrant fathers.
@@carolgebert7833 Exactly. In addition, there is a general tendency for men to outnumber women among migrants.
Ez igen érdekes, új információ, köszönöm a feliratozást. Annyit helyesbítenék, hogy a magyar nem finnugor nyelv. 200-300 közös szó nem rokonságot jelez, hanem átvételt csupán. Nincsenek közös gyökszavaink, tudtommal nem jellemző a többi finn-ugor nyelvre a szóbokrok képzése.
Linguists consider over 800 words as cognate words between Hungarian and Finno-Ugric languages. That is more than the 200-300 words mentioned above.
Anélkül, hogy a nyelvrokonság kérdésében állást foglalnék, arra kívánok rámutatni, hogy nyelvrokonságot elsősorban nem szavak hasonlóságából állapítjuk meg, mert a szókészlet a nyelvnek az a része, amelyik leggyorsabban változik. Nyelvtani funkciók, végződése, ragok, toldalékok, mondattani, hangtani jelenségek sokkal fontosabbak. Egy példa: 'The Admission Office refused the student's application'. A mondatban minden lexikai jelentéssel bíró szó latin eredetü. De attól az angol nyelv nem lesz latin, megmarad germánnak, mert minden nyelvtani funkció germán; the (határozott névelő), -ed (időjel), s (birtokos rag).
@@istvankozma2352 Words like 'hand' and 'man' belong to the basic vocabulary of English, and they have German cognates. Words like 'admission' and 'office' do not belong to the basic vocabulary of the English language. They are obvious Romance language borrowings.
The cognate words determine the classification of a language rather than the borrowed words. Hence English is a Germanic language.
@@PeterRevesz Meg is nézte azokat a szóegyezéseket? Mert én több százat végigmazsoláztam, ha nem is 800-at. Azokat a szavakat, amik kettőnél több betűváltozáson mentek át, és tartalmukban se fedik pontosan egymást, én komolytalannak, erőltetettnek tartom. Azokat is, amik a nyelvcsaládnak csak egy ágával hozható össze. Ahogy István is írja, a nyelvtan az elsődleges, mert az nehezebben változik. Legjobb példa erre, ha ma átveszünk bármely idegen szót, magyar nyelvtannal ragozzuk. Ezért kérdeztem, melyik épül gyökrendszerre a finnugor nyelvek közül, és melyik képez szóbokrokat. Nem válaszolt erre.
Ami módszer jó az indoeurópai nyelvekre, azt nem lehet ráhúzni a magyarra, mert butaságok jönnek ki belőle, már bocsánat.
Igen, van halvány genetikai kapcsolat velük, de az az utolsó jégkorszakig nyúlik vissza, és a Kárpát-medencébe. A felmelegedés hatására a vadászállatok északabbra húzódtak. A vadászok egy része ment utánuk, ment keletre, és le délkeletre is, egy részük pedig a nagy olvadáskor magasabb területekre húzódott vissza. Tehát a nyelv itt volt őshonos, nem a honfoglalók hozták. Ha nem így lenne, Ön se tudta volna megfejteni a magyar nyelv segítségével a lineáris "A" írást. Ahogy igen jól levezette a genetikai, és a kulturális videóiban, a Kárpát-medencéből népesült be egyik fele Krétának. Akkor nyilvánvaló, hogy a nyelvet is vitték magukkal, amit beszéltek az itt élő emberek.
Szóval az a pár közös szó még az őseurópai vadászok idejéből való, ami semmi esetre sincs 800.
Csakhogy közben a termékeny félholdról jöttek a földművelők, és 1500 év alatt 80%-ban felülírták az európai vadászok génjeit. Sehol máshol ekkora mértékben nem történt meg Európában(Török-Neparáczki). Nos, ez akkora arány, ami hatással lehetett a nyelvre is. Egyetlen eset, amikor a Kárpát-medence őslakosságának a génállományát ekkora mértékben írták felül. Az őslakosság mindig túlsúlyban volt az évezredek alatt, bármennyi nép viharzott is át rajtunk, telepedett ránk több-kevesebb ideig. Így lehetséges, hogy még ma is 56%-ot őrzünk a vadász-földművelő génkeverékéből.
@@PeterRevesz Javasolnám elolvasni Varga Csaba: Írástörténet című munkáját, és Grover S. Krantz: Az európai nyelvek földrajzi kialakulása.
Wow, you confirmed the leads I have been following that have indicated the Turul Saker Falcon peoples of the Free (became Urigic-Finno) came down into the Danube (roughly modern Hungry). That those KOS peoples hybridized with peoples of Sumer and Akkadians and because of foundry techniques they found their way into the Eastern Nile Delta known as the Hyksos (they eventually got chased out by the Sub-Saharan Pharaohs) and they fortified themselves in Ancient Jerusalem.
There are many interesting connections among ancient peoples. I suggest that you also watch my video on trade relations between Bronze Age Greece and India: th-cam.com/video/pW5mbJL4Xyo/w-d-xo.html
you're priceless! Thank you!
I'm glad you enjoyed this presentation. Please check out the other videos.
Ground-breaking, mind-blowing, breath-taking! The figurine of the bull-leaper is the most beautiful, graceful thing. Love your music.
Your point about the inappropriate deduction is so true - common sense indicates the two sites with iron nails are more similar. Stats can be misleading.
Thank you your comment.
In regard the names of the Crete Ugric mtDNA samples @3:08. It took a while but the 2nd came easier.
The First cave was named as "ӧти вит руа доныс" (öti vit rua donõs). The Greek name forms are incorrect and contain errors. Nonetheless the Greek names can be taken and the original name restored despite all the short comings because the name itself retains enough of the Crete Ugric substrate. "Ӧти вит руа доныс" (öti vit rua donõs) stands for "firm five foggy be worthy". It has becoming more and more clear the Crete Ugric people were very avid sailors and fog or ру (ru) plays a big part in their vocabulary especially in boundaries between the plots or certain mediums. The reference to five foggy remains uncertain but it's pivotal concept of their world perception.
Fog is ру (ru) and foggy is руа (rua).
The second cave was named as "шар ёна ма эбӧс" (šar jena ma ebös) standing for "globe yearns honey vigor / physical strength". Note that the earth as planet Earth was known to be round already for the Crete Ugric peoples as "шар" (šar) specifically means round Earth like a ball. The Russian word шар is Crete Ugric substrate.
The both places are dedicated cemeteries. The first belonged to the avid sailors. The second belonged to avid farmers. Already the name of the 2nd graveyard reveals they knew exactly how to honour their dead.
I can reveal that I've found two distinct Crete Ugric settlements in Estonia. One is specifically in Muhu and the other is at Iru or upstream of the Pirita river to the future Iru pre-historic stronghold. When Muhu Crete island settlers used the Knossos name convention logic in Kuivastu name then the one's who settled in Iru, some 30 km East of Tallinn, used very different name conventions but distinguishably Crete island Ugric substrate. I also can confirm that Sumerian substrate in Tallinna toponyms are very clearly present. In fact Sumerian substrate is present in Viru county, in the future Tallinn, and in South-Estonian languages like Seto, Kraasi, and Lutsi.
Even more than that the name Lindanisa, that is thought to be associated with pre-historic Tallinn, is 100% Sumerian substrate and it can be translated into meaningful concept. The concept at @8:39 by 2017 Lehti Saag et. al "Extensive farming in Estonia started through sex-biased migration from the steppe" is encoded into the Sumerian substrate name Lindanisa.
From the toponyms on Muhu the Crete Ugric peoples grow barley as that fact is encoded in the Lõetsa river name. Also harvesting honey was their other main agriculture activity. Both Sumerians and Crete Ugric peoples travelled as far North as to the Koola peninsula as the name Koola is Sumerian substrate and the Murmansk is Crete Ugric substrate. They both knew of a natural phenomenon in the Koola peninsula close to the White Sea where the ships with the crew got lost due to that.
I can tell for sure Sumerians and Minonians interacted with each other and they have specific substrates. Who interacted with whom and who had the most impact will be investigate. The way how the vocabulary shaped and it remained will tell whose impact was significant.
One important caveat. The Crete island Ugric peoples can't be called Minoans. They never called themselves as such and the meaning does not exist. There are nouns ме нас (me nas) and ми нас (mi nas) where ме нас (me nas) is the elected elder and the ми нас (mi nas) is the elected elders' council. Ugric peoples never had kings. They had and still have elders. Elders' council is an important entity of governing. The same concept is reflected among the Sumerian names, thus these names are function names not their birth names. Thus, I've started to call them the Crete Ugric civilization. I think I can derive their real name as there is a method how Sumerian derived their own name. The same principle will be later used to name Ukraine.
P.S.
Kyiv and the founder of Kyiv, have Crete island Ugric substrate in them. This is supported by the observation the coat of arms of Ukraine is the horns from the Knossos palace.
The name of Kyiv seems related to Finnish kivi 'stone' and archaic Hungarian keve 'stone' that is preserved today in the personal name Keve. Downtown Kyiv is built on a rocky hill, which prominently stands out from a relatively flat landscape.
@@PeterRevesz Actually the name Kyiv is derived from the founder's name who was Ky or Kyi. For me this is not surprising as I've discovered that Ukraine ethnos in their pre Christening carried not just Ugric cultural and religion legacy but also have till this day representation of Crete Ugric and Sumerian heritage. For instance the centre part of their Coat of Arms is a Sumerian war club. In that sense the details are starting to make sense but when told for the first time need to explain the background information to help others to catch up.
@@lennutrajektoor When city X is said to be founded by a legendary X, it is a sign that people have no clue about the real origin of the city's name.
well done video! i don't know much about genetics, but i've paid more attention to mythologies. it might not be your cup of tea, but for some evening reading i could suggest Oera Linda manuscript.. i can't remember too well everything from it as i was mostly searching for finnic stuff, but i recall they talking about Minerva and Frisians sailing and settling to mediterranean.
I started copying pictures of Minoan scripts and alphabet tables, and as usual already seeing letters that aren't in alphabet tables. :D if they changed their letters over time like runic scripters, this might be a short study for me, lol.
Thank you. I'll check it out. If you are interested in the relationship of various ancient scripts, then you may like the following journal article that I wrote about the Cretan Script Family before translating Linear A: www.academia.edu/38843641/Bioinformatics_evolutionary_tree_algorithms_reveal_the_history_of_the_Cretan_Script_Family Parhain terveisin
@@PeterRevesz thank you, sounds good! terveisiä sinnekin!
Interesting theory but I don't understand why you didn't consider Y haplogroups at all. Did only women migrate? It doesn't seem plausible. Didn't mutations also occur on the Y chromosome during the hundreds of years before they left the Danube basin and headed towards Crete?
Mitochondrial DNA is much easier to obtain that y-DNA. A few years ago there were only few Minoan y-DNA samples. This situation has changed this year because of the recent paper by Skourtanioti et al. (2023) in Nature Ecology & Evolution. The analysis of all the data in Skourtanioti needs some time, but there seems to be some support for the things that you mention. When we will have over a hundred samples, then we will be able to see much clearer than now.
Dear Mr. Révész!
The spatial grouping of DNA is very interesting and reasonable, so that the starting point of certain groups of peoples can be better identified, as well as the migration route and place of settlement of the part of the people detached from them. I would have a question as to how much the binding of blood groups to DNA can be narrowed. There is little writing about this, that from a DNA sample, the blood type can also be determined?
People's blood type is determined by their DNA sequences, in particular their ABO genes. The ABO genes that cause blood types have three main variations or alleles, A, B and O, which are only a few mutations apart from each other. Each person has two ABO genes.
The O gene is biologically inactive, while both the A and B genes are active.
The inactive/active nature of these genes explain the conventional blood type labels. A person who has both an A gene and B gene is said to have an AB blood type because A and B act together. A person who has both an A and an O gene is said to have an A blood type because A acts alone. Similarly, a person who has both a B and an O gene is said to have a B blood type because B acts alone. A person who has two O genes is said to have an O blood type.
Hence in theory, we can tell the blood type of persons from their DNAs. Unfortunately, current archaeogenetic methods yield ancient DNA sequences that are often incomplete. Hence the retrieved ancient DNA may not always tell us the blood type.
@@PeterRevesz Thanks for your response!
According to my readings, and if I understand correctly, does blood group AB develop independently of blood group AB0? To the best of my knowledge, its formation can be linked to the Carpathian Basin. Leaving the Carpathian Basin, the percentage suddenly decreases and disappears farther and farther, towards all four wedges. The strange thing is that the percentage of blood group AB in the territory of Egypt, similar to the percentage in the Carpathian Basin, moving away from the region, the percentage will disappear. So can the Carpathian Basin and this ethnic group of Egypt be linked? Therefore, I asked about the detection of blood type from ancient DNA in order to determine the time of migration.
@@attila3231 The ABO gene (not blood type) with three alleles occurs in each person in pairs. These pairs determine the person's blood type to be AB, A, B, or O. The percentages of AB, A, B and O blood types change gradually from country to country. Hence percentage statistics are not useful for detecting ancient relationship among people. This can be expected from the fact that the AB, A, B, and O blood type people can easily mix with each other.
You may have heard about the RhD gene that has two alleles, the D allele which produces D antigens and the d allele which does not. These are indicated by adding a positive or a negative suffix to the above four blood types. For example, the A+ blood type means that the person has A blood type and also has the D allele. On the other hand, A- means that the person has A blood types and has the d allele.
An RhD negative mother and an RhD positive father may have dificulty having children because of RhD incompatibility. The difficulty of mixing between RhD negative and positive people results in less gradual distribution of RhD types from populations to populations. RhD negative blood type is rare worldwide (6%) but is high in Basques (21-36 %) and Moroccans in the Atlas Mountains (29%). This suggests some ancient connection between these two groups.
Thank you. Is there any pdf on the net containing decipherment of the Linear A script using an Ugro-Finnic language?
On my university webpage cse.unl.edu/~revesz/publications.htm the journal articles [21-24] contain decipherments with a Proto-Finno-Ugric language.
@@PeterRevesz : Thank you very much !
btw that Danube civilization. Lazy to google now, the one from Varan museum anyway. There is strong evidence of early script form. (today Bulgaria?). Matriarchal society and disappear around the time pottery appeared in Crete. Are there links? (even between scripts? Although I would find it difficult for it. you never now)
Indeed, the Danube Valley/Basin Civilization had a writing that some archaeologists say may be the oldest in the world. There are some similarities to the Crean scripts, especially to Lnear A. The movement from the Danube Basin to Crete and the other Aegean islands makes ever more sense in this context.
@@PeterRevesz I am glad you also study genome. I have a feeling that one could reconstruct the immigration waves with genome movements and could cross-check it with linguistic movements.
Especially if one could check as deep as 9000BC and unveil possible immigration routes that will be very intriguing indeed!
@@madamimadam4958 Certainly, archaeogenetics is a major aid in the study of ancient human migrations. The above video describes my genetic study that reveals the migration of Middle Minoans from the Danube Basin. The further we go back in time, the clearer the migration patterns become. Human populations mixed so much over time that today's European population is quite homogeneous with only gradual changes from the south to the north and from the east to the west. This gradual change also continues from Greece towards the Near East.
Hello Peter today it is confirmed that Uralic languages came from Siberia. İ had sent the link with the relevant archeogenetics publications.
For the sake of all readers, could you please link here the reference? When we talk about homelands of various language families, it is important to consider that there could be several differnt homelands because proto-language groups may have migrated. In my video, the Uralic languages are said to have reached the Ural Mountains with the expansion of the Corded Ware Culture. After reaching that area, they may have spit into smaller groups.
@@PeterRevesz i wrote a reply but i cant see it now
@@mehmetkurtkaya3106 I don't know what happened. Please try again. Thanks.
@@PeterRevesz thanks it automatically got deleted veciz i have a link to my site Uralic sectiin where archeogenetics papers are listed.s how can i wrie a link to a paper i dont know
@@mehmetkurtkaya3106 I don't know what may be the problem because other people could add links. I think I found your webpage: sumerianturks.org/hungarian-finnish-turkish-uralic.htm The connection that you describe supports what was already known from earlier papers. In particular, it was shown that the Árpád dynasty had a Y chromosome that is rare in Hungary but is found in today's Bashkirs, who speak a Turkic language: www.nature.com/articles/s41431-020-0683-z The first Árpád dynasty ruler led a conquest of Hungary at the end of the 9th century similar to William the Conqueror in England. In both cases, they established strong feudalistic kingdoms, and for that accomplishment they are highly regarded. However, the local languages only changed by adding many new words. I think that a possible Ural-Altaic connection cannot be explained by this 9th conquest. Its root needs to be sought many thousands of years earlier.
thx alot
Welcome, as always.
Mr Revesz ..your work BRAVISSIMO...but I wou;ld like if you can help me because I,m going crazy to understand how is Possibl;e so many MAGYAR /HUNGARIAN sounding names in ancient times ...UR,URUK,EREK,ARAD,ARPAD,KISH,KUTA , URU-SOLYMA>>>HIERO-SOLYMA /today Jerusalem /..mount TABOR , AVARIS.SAMOS , KARPATHOS ,KOS,POROS, CRETA islands !! You must know that those ONLY in magyar language making sence . I can go around the world with geographical names .....NO HISTORIAN CAN ANSWER MY QUESTION !!! YOU ARE MY LAST HOPE ...THANX
The study of toponyms is a very fascinating subject. In a data mining work, I also considered the origin of ancient European river and mountain names and came to the conclusion that they originate from the Near East, including some from Mesopotamia, and Africa. Please see a presentation about it here: th-cam.com/video/I_RCuwRx5hU/w-d-xo.html
The last wave of Hungarian led settlers into the Carpathian basin had cca. 40% Sarmatian genetic ancestry. So there could be a cultural heritage from the Iran region, and thus from the Sumerian culture. Sumerian was a lingua franca in that area for more than a thousand years. It did not disappear completely. The Hungarian myth of Hunor and Magor describes a marriage to women from the Alan tribe of Sarmatians. The genetics, the myths, some cultural heritage perfectly match. We Hungarians all learn a rhyme in the kindergarten that actually a hymn to the Sun God in Sumerian.