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Rommels genius was in maneuver, in situations where logistics and decisive planning were required he struggled compared with his contemporaries. Tunis represents the exact situation that played against all his strengths
I wouldn't say he struggled any more than the average German general. Which is not to say there weren't competent ones, just that those were above average. It's all about incentives, too. No one is getting a Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Diamonds for managing those warehouses really well.
The British (and now Americans) would always be able to outmatch and outlast German and Italian logistics. Rommel's only option was to aggressively outmaneuver and defeat them on the battlefield before that advantage could be brought to bear. Of course he failed, but it was a much closer run thing than it should have been.
My father was part of the USAAF flying the P-40 and participated in the battle of North Africa supporting the British 8th Army and Tunisia and when I was young told me stories of old Cairo and Tunisia.
My father was there (Captain William Elmer Smith - at the time I believe) HE often spoke of the Kasserine Pass and later a speaker at the S.C. State Museum. Upon the unification of Germany - he yelled at the TV as the Berlin Wall was coming down. Later some months he lamented the unification with his final words on the subject, "They are a violent and warlike people. They should not be unified."
As an American, I have no problem with that characterization. No sting for me! At that time for that theater it was essentially correct, due at least somewhat to inexperience. However, a month later, the Americans contributed to the victory in North Africa. Then Sicily, then a bunch of other stuff.
I have nowhere else to say this but my grandad and his brother were two of a three man squad who operated a vickers gun at Tunis. They are on record as being the first into the city along with another gentleman. They got medals for gallantry, as vickers gunners had to run in front of the front line, set up, then provide cover. They were cannon fodder. Yet both survived. The greatest generation bar none.
One word. Logistics. Granted Rommel wasn't a fantastic logistician. However even the best logistician cannot use supplies that don't exist. Having pulled Italian backsides out of the fire it might be reasonably expected that they would provide their allies with /promised/ levels of supply. However the Italian merchant navy never even came close to supplying half or even a quarter of what they had promised. Thus even when Rommel's supply lines /were/ short he lacked the supplies he needed.
A lot of his logistics ended up at the bottom of the Mediterranean because the allies knew when they were being shipped across from reading the German Enigma messages. They were able to target the ships especially the fuel tankers that were vital for the German war effort,
@@rhysthomas5811 Agreed. Malta was so much a better strategic target than Crete. That little island with all its little planes- a real thorn for axis logistics.
@@rhysthomas5811 I would agree except the Italian shipping never even /tried/ to fulfil their obligation, so what the Allies sank simply worsened an already shabby situation.
Germans were not known for their staff work. It was a real weakness they never addressed. They had small staffs and keeping track of the boring but necessary parts was messed up. The US dealt with the massive military expansion by having really big staffs. It let them use their civilian expertise effectively and just got stuff done. For example, take a manager from a shipping company, train him enough in military procedure to fit in, don't let him have command responsibility, and let him do what he does best.
As a New Zealand Defence Force vet', it was nice to see you reference N.Z Division participation in this campaign as an national unit rather than just another 'British Empire' group. Thank you.
It was said at the time that 90th Light regarded 2nd New Zealand as their special opponent, and in their final hours asked to be allowed to surrender to them. In 2nd New Zealand's final confrontation with the 90th Light in May 1943, Freyberg had sent a message to the German Division stating "..your position is hopeless. We have fought you for two years and have no wish to annihilate you." The reply was "..We appreciate your message and we realise our position is hopeless; but we have our duty to perform."
@@amogusenjoyer That was key - the Americans learned fast. What the British and some Germans didn't appreciate was that America had just entered the war. At the same point in their time line, British troops were getting kicked out of France, then Norway. Even further down the road, they get their @sses handed to them in Singapore and have Force Z wrecked. The US Army started the war with 200K soldiers and ended up with 16M. That is an expansion of 80x. The dilution of experience is unreal.
It should be pointed out that the german surrendered on the 12 of may and the italian on the 13. Messe (the italian commander) received orders to surrender only if he received the "honor of arms". He asked the 12 but the british refused so he continued to fight untill a message arrived from Rome written by Mussolini. In this message Messe was nomineted Marshal of Italy (the highest rank at the time) and he was ordered to surrender (because it would be bad news for the population to know that the germans had abandoned their ally).
Yea this channel only spews allied propaganda. It's been said by even allied generals that the Italians fought harder in Tunisia but these clowns will never mention that.
The Axis lost the Tunisian campaign after El Alamein and Allied landings in northwest Africa. There was no way the Axis was going to ship enough men and supplies. They never could before and there's no reason they could improve on that now. Especially now with combined Allied air forces and navies. The Tunisian campaign is also where the Western Allied Air Forces start combining into a major juggernaut. The Luftwaffe airlift attempts to supply Tunisia were ravaged by Allied fighters. The Germans brought in a huge amount of their airlift capability to Tunisia. They even did a "Panzer Lehr" moment before Panzer Lehr existed by over a year: The Luftwaffe pulled instructors from Germany to fly these transport sorties, only for them to get massacred by fighters. From here on out, the true bleeding white of the Luftwaffe begins. It only gets worse for them starting this campaign as Luftwaffe losses spike ever higher. If their losses were already bad enough here for Tunisia, the Allied air forces' preparation for the invasion of Sicily would be an absolute nightmare for the Germans. US Army performance here wasn't surprising. This was the first real ground combat the US Army had against the German army. The Americans have had ample fighting prior to this, but that was over in the Pacific fighting the Japanese. But the greatly expanded US Army in Europe and the Mediterranean didn't have any of that combat experience. In contrast the Germans and British had already been fighting for years. The only thing that the US Army could do was to "get blooded" by real combat experience and improve itself. They already have the material superiority.
"There was no way the Axis was going to ship enough men and supplies." Exactly so, and excellent analysis. The problem for the Axis was that the Axis controlled port facilities were working at maximum cargo-landing capacity. The troops they had in North Africa were poorly supplied, and more troops and tanks would simply magnify the supply problem. There was no solution to the cargo landing capacity issue. Gaining some ports in Tunisia was offset by losing Tripoli, Tobruk and Benghazi. Logistics doomed the Axis efforts whatever they did or attempted.
Rommel was bipolar. He praised the Italians on many occasions and also blamed them for everything that went wrong even when he was the one responsible. Their have been books written on it but this mainstream channel will never adress things like that. Just the same allied propaganda and talking points from 80 years ago.
You make this familiar story come alive with great detail and analysis. Watching your presentations is a lot like reading a well written chapter with amazing, detailed illustrations and examples. I appreciate your seriousness of purpose and delivery.
I'm very glad to see more coverage of 1943 campaigns on TH-cam. I consider this year to be the most underrated of the war. Hopeful in the future, could there be coverage of Operation Cartwheel in the Pacific?
Regardless of skill and wiles, the Tunisia campaign is a microcosm of the rest of the war: the Germans don't have enough men on the scene nor the ability to get more war materiel to them to put up a sufficient resistance.
Stonewall Jackson was never involved in any "last stand" during the Civil War. Jackson was famed, and most noted, for his ability to out-maneuver the Union forces that often outnumbered his own, culminating in his end run around the Army of the Potomac at the Battle of Chancellorsville, which sealed a big victory for Lee's Army of Northern Virginia, but also Jackson's death after he was wounded by friendly fire. I suspect Fredenhall was referring to a surprise maneuver a la Jackson.
Have visited Tunisia and in and around Kaserine pass .. Very rocky with scrub ,was quite hot with the odd water fall making it in places look very green ,almost Europe looking in places ..
On 19-20 April 1943 the New Zealand Division set off to clear the foothills between Enfidaville and Takrouna. While the 6th (NZ) Brigade, on the right, achieved its objectives without too much difficulty, the 5th (NZ) Brigade suffered heavy casualties as it pushed forward in an area dominated by Takrouna, an outcrop of rock rising steeply from the plain at the end of a ridge. Troops from 28th (Maori) Battalion managed to scale the heights and seized the summit after fierce fighting. Determined counter-attacks forced the New Zealanders off Takrouna but it was retaken on 21 April by a small group led by Sergeant Haane Manahi. Men from other units also joined the assault, including Sergeant Walter Smith (23 Battalion), who used telephone cables to pull himself up to Takrouna's main ridge. One senior British commander described this action as ‘the most gallant feat of arms’ he saw during the war. Smith received a DCM for his part in the battle. Manahi was recommended for a VC but was instead awarded a DCM.
At 12:45 Von Arnim did not lose "15 of his 19 Tigers" in the two battles at the end of February. He was in possession of only 18 Tigers at the time, and only 7 got completely destroyed. The rest, whether driven or towed back, did serve again later.
Indeed. There were still 15 Tigers left at the turn of May I believe. The Tigers were only lost very sporadically in Tunisia. The 'Tiger graveyard' at Beja was an anomaly.
08:47 not only costly and stubborn, but also one from the losing side, by a general who got himself killed, not long afterward. (behind the curtains? you've got curtains? are they green?)
My dad was a First Army sapper (North Africa Sicily Italy Germany), for the rest of his life he would use a lot of Indian and Italian words. For example, a rifle was always a Bundook.
Another fantastic historical coverage episode was shared by an excellent ( RTH ) channel... it was a great historical coverage episode...thank you very much 👍🏻
Love every one of your videos! Just curious-- are there any plans to make more Napoleon episodes? Y'all need to set the record straight now that Ridley's mangled it!
we might do some in the future. sadly the 1813 campaign was not very popular and we lost a lot of money on them. so need to think about which parts we cover.
One point I would like to raise. At a certain moment the main airfield the germans used to supply Stalingrad became untennable so they had to move it a substatial distance furter behind their lines. But, the rate of supply's delivered didn't noticably drop. That would indicate they didn't had a shortage of planes to deliver with, but a shortage of supply's to deliver. Taking away planes wasn't a strategic error, the supply situation remained the same, meaning, pretty bad. All else, very food video 👍🏻
It seems you dont know anything about the losses the german transport units had,right?????Another armchair general that has heard something that someone mentioned that he heard it!😂🤣
At Stalingrad, the Germans were never able to adequately supply their trapped Armies. They had insufficient airlift capacity (ie not enough of the right sort of aircraft, they were having to resort to using bombers with relativly low payloads, to supplement their transports). It was winter, which restricted the number of flights due to weather conditions. The Russian Air Force, almost for the first time, was able to achieve some measure of control and also deploy sufficient AA guns to reduce the number of aircraft available. The airfields in the pocket were either overrun or subject to air attack or artillery fire. Perhaps most significantly, Goering promised the Army and Hitler, to do something his staff knew was impossible, mainly to save face.
For the rhythm of algo! It's easy for us to look back and criticise but I always felt Rommel was, not so much a one trick pony. but was limited in conceptual range. Of course there are many factors that played into it and we can armchair general all we like. We were not there.
Thank goodness the British convinced the US to not invade France in 1943 with their inexperienced troops. Can you imagine what would have happened compared to their defeat in Tunisia. There were four attacks beaten back until the Afrika Corps ran out of ammunition and fuel. These battles in Kasserine were their birth in fire. Horrible to say but these made the GIs better for the European theatre.
Interesting how von Armin's plan would most likely have worked and set the Allies back at least a couple weeks if not months. Kasserine might have been a victory but a wasted one, putting the whole force behind the Sbiba gap and force it would have been harder but overall more successful.
I think that the crucial aspect has been overlooked a bit - how did Allies get total aerial domination, if Germans started campaign with stronger air forces? What caused fuel shortages? Transports could get to ports? Or Ploesti was already depleted? Was P-51 Mustang already introduced in mass scale, and was he really that superior compare to german fighters? Episode was, as always, great, but I feel a bit unsatisfied id that one area.
Poznan, Germany was crippled by fuel shortages before and during the war. Rumanian oil supply filled only a very minor part of total Axis requirements. And all during this time, fuel was denied to the civilian sector which meant that the whole of Europe was starving to death quite rapidly. National Socialist mismanagement of the economy is perhaps the main reason why Germany's military defeat in the war was inevitable.
Churchill, asked if he was offended by Montgomery's inviting General.von Arnhem to dinner after.his surrender, instead offered his sincere condolences, saying "for I, too, have dined with Field Marshall Montgomery"
Today again, for anglo-american historians (not all) the campaign in North Africa was an exclusively affair of Rommel and Afrika Korp. The italian Army was only a group of tourists following them through the desert. Excerpt Winter 1940-41 with the defeat of the italians army, badly deploied and worse armed, especially in anti-tank, the Regio Esercito supported validly the Afrika Korp: Bir El Gobi, Tobruk, El Alamein, Tunis, and other, despite being inferior in armament.
Interesting bibliography, and definitely not making a balls of it 🙂. But I would note the figure of 250 000 captured in Tunisia apparently stemmed from an off-hand remark Ike made to a reporter. Liddle Hart reckoned it to be significantly less - some 170 - 180 000 before the last fighting, based on returns on ration strengths. Still, an impressive victory, and not just because my uncles were involved (on the Brit/South African side).
My grandfather was a forward observer for the 9th Infantry, 26th field artillery division. He was part of the 800-mile forced march to Thala that saved the allied forces from defeat in that region. Random, just proud lol so I’m sharing
It's weird how both germany and a century earlier france also were seeking glory in africa against the British empire. After the adventure turned against them, they just simply left their forces there and couldn't be arsed anymore really. That 300.000 experienced troops could defend most of the axis held/occupied Mediterranean coastline with lot better chance. Italy also had some divisions in africe which were willing to fight not only eager to surrender.
Its very likely that Barbarossa could have succeeded in capturing Moscow in 42 if not for the troop and lostistics lost in trying to save Mussolini's adventure in Africa.
@obsidianjane4413 Conversely, it's also possible that had the Axis suceeded in North Africa, taken the Suez Canal etc then Turkey may have joined the Axis with the removal of British presence in the eastern Mediterranean, and this could have had major consequences for the USSR.
Apart from this video; EVERY TIME I hear Rommel mentioned he is heralded as I either a genius or a great strategic general. I've never understood this. In most of the battles I see he us retreating or making mistakes. Can someone share the battle where he is so brilliant? cause I don't see it.
The New Zealanders did not have long to savour the victory in Tunisia. On 15 May the first units began their nearly 3000 km drive back to Egypt, reflecting on battles fought and comrades lost. The last of the New Zealand Division reached Cairo on 1 June, cramming into camps at Maadi and Helwan. For 6000 of the longest-serving men, there was the prospect of an early return to New Zealand: they learned that they would go home on a three-month furlough.
Germany Faced a Military Impossibility In Africa After The Battle of El Alamein Their Supply Situation and Lack of Air Cover and Artillery ammunition,fuel and even Troops,Pushed Tighter and Tighter in their cauldron facing the sea, the best thing they could've done was An evacuation while fighting a delaying action against the unexperienced americans while saving most of their men and equipment while they can that they would be needing them for the defence of italy and france
Faced 2 British armies and one American army and no maneuver room Wouldn’t reinforce Rommel in Libya yet reinforced in Tunisa where it was a lost cause
The Allies only controlled Gibraltar, Malta and Egypt. The Axis controlled the northern coastline from France to Greece, and (fuel concerns aside) had naval parity with the British. The Italians really could've won that fight and gotten Rommel the supplies that he needed. The Royal Navy was stretched to limit in 1942, fighting the Germans, Italians and Japanese simultaneously, so it was certainly possible.
British forces and supplies had to come all the way from Britain (or Australia, India etc). It took a British division six weeks to get there, down the Atlantic, round Cape Town and up the Indian Ocean through the Suez Canal. German U-boats were prevalent in the Atlantic. The west coast of Africa was a particularly deadly area.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Awkward question: you do know that the Strait of Gibraltar exists, right? The British regularly sent convoys through that route, most notably to Malta. Sorry if that sounds rude.
@@Cailus3542 Men were sent the long route via Cape Town. I've just read a book on the 44th Royal Tank Regiment. It took six weeks to reach Egypt from England. They were sent via Freetown and Cape Town then Suez Canal. This was typical.
@@Cailus3542 "The Italians really could've won that fight and gotten Rommel the supplies that he needed. " No they couldn't. The Regia Marina had virtually no fuel with which to operate. Battleships cannot be moved except with lots of bunker oil. And the Regia Marina had had the stuffing taken out of it in November 1940 with the Taranto raid.
The stats at the end are very dodgy, I don't see how the Luftwaffe losses in that one theatre could have been 41% of the entire airforce. 41% of the heavy transport fleet possibly, but I think there's been a mix up here
4:40 what is with German officers and lacking operational vision? They win a few battles and their strategy turns to “we’ll attack them here and figure out what to do next afterwards”
From what I've learned about Rommel, I gather he wasn't the impeccable military genius he's often painted to be. Rommel was a competent and skilled but ultimately overrated figure in his field; the Zinedine Zidane of the German military.
@@vgamedude12 But that's another thing: a lot of historians call that the "Rommel myth" and assert he wasn't truly some voracious critic of Hitler, nor even apolitical. What do you think of these claims?
My dad 1st Army Royal Artillery . The Germans , mostly resented being captured. Upon coming across large amounts of Italiam POW`s , he and his mates were very concerned about their saftey, but not to worry. In the main the Italians were happy that they were out of the war, very few resisted. Then on to Italy and back in the fight with the Germans.
“Very few resisted”? The British 8th army was unable to break through the Italian 1st army at enfidaville. They surrendered only when they were encircled by USA and French troops who broke through the German 5th army.
@@dovetonsturdee7033about 6-7 Italian divisions and 3-4 German. But the great unit was called “Italian 1st army”, commanded by general Giovanni Messe and blocked the British 8th army at enfidaville until they were completely encircled due to the breakthrough on the 5.Panzerarmee front. I know very well that war theatre.
@@Atlantisimo The Order of Battle of 1st 'Italian' Army at Wadi Akarit, 6-7 April, 1943, consisted of four Italian Divisions and three German Divisions.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 you cannot define the composition of an army just looking at its order of battle on a 1 day fighting. As Gen. Messe wrote in his memories the 1st Italian army was originally composed by 4 Italian infantry divisions, 2 German light infantry divisions, the German Dak (15th panzer division), the Italian armored division Littorio, the saharian group (equivalent to another Italian division) and some support groups. At Enfidaville the saharian group was no more and all the divisions were really under strength. But the British 8th army was still unable to breakthrough, and the Italian 1st army (who still had 3 German divisions within, even if the 15th panzer had no more than 15 tanks, more or less the same than the Piscicelli armored group) had to surrender due to the encirclement.
My Father, Henry Ferguson Marshall was with the Lothian & Border Horse (1st Army, 6th Armoured Division, 26th Armoured Brigade) in Operation Torch and thought at Kasserine and the final defeat of the Germans as they drove through Hammamet to capture Cap Le Bon outside Tunis. The Lothians trapped 250,000 Axis POWs on the Cape. .
Dad Said Rommel Visited The Americans In The German Hospital and Was Concerned With There Care . Kasserine Was A Learning Curve For American Troops First Time Up To Bat , Just Green Troops Takes Time Remember Germany and England Had 2 Year Head Start On American.
I am surprised you didnt mention what stopped rommel right after the battle of kassarine pass.An american lost artelliary battallion showed up 20 wiles west of kassarine,and along with some infantry and engineers,they destroyed most of the german tanks and infantry,completely routing them.The officer in charge of U.S. artillary,was probably the best the americans had to offer when directing fire.Thanks for the video.
3:39 That comment reminded me of the show Hetalia (in which countries are depicted as people), and how both US and Italy are depicted as complete idiots (though US also is extremely strong, while Italy is the opposite).
Are you kidding? It's way better than the History Channel. This channel discusses real historical events and combines them with clips of documentary footage, photographs, and even quotes from the people who were there. The History Channel has ancient aliens, lumberjacks, and semi-trucks driving across the ice. 😆
You are really calling Montgomery's pursuit of the Africa corps slow? The fastest and furthest armoured advance of the war? and you call it slow. 1400 miles in about 2 weeks, ok he was a tortoise wasn't he. Same as the Great swan in northern Europe 350 miles in 5 days slow and ponderous.....
Indeed. And it wasn't Montgomery's fault the Anglo-American forces in Operation Torch failed to move across Tunisia and got bogged down. Now THAT was slow. They were supposed to get across Tunisia and trap Rommel from the west, cutting off his supplies from Tunis. They failed to do that and Montgomery ended up having to defeat the Axis in Tunisia for them.
"Go to Kasserine right away and pull a Stonewall Jackson" is so modern internet vibe like its saying go there and cook or go there and be x historical figure
Only homefront heroes criticize a general for putting the lives of his soldiers and the success of his mission over glory in headlong dashes. War is not a video game.
@@davidhoward4715 I guess Montgomery was the only general who cared about his men. It seems impossible to criticize him without some Brit getting his back all askew. I cannot stand Bernard Montgomery.
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Rommels genius was in maneuver, in situations where logistics and decisive planning were required he struggled compared with his contemporaries. Tunis represents the exact situation that played against all his strengths
the losses from his bold actions beforehand also didn't help
I wouldn't say he struggled any more than the average German general. Which is not to say there weren't competent ones, just that those were above average. It's all about incentives, too. No one is getting a Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross with Diamonds for managing those warehouses really well.
The British (and now Americans) would always be able to outmatch and outlast German and Italian logistics. Rommel's only option was to aggressively outmaneuver and defeat them on the battlefield before that advantage could be brought to bear. Of course he failed, but it was a much closer run thing than it should have been.
Yeah, he mostly deligated those tasks to underlings. Therin lies his problem he couldn't do it all. He's not Belisarius.
I think the German logistics situation failed him. He would have probably won if he was supplied correctly.
My father was part of the USAAF flying the P-40 and participated in the battle of North Africa supporting the British 8th Army and Tunisia and when I was young told me stories of old Cairo and Tunisia.
My father was there (Captain William Elmer Smith - at the time I believe) HE often spoke of the Kasserine Pass and later a speaker at the S.C. State Museum. Upon the unification of Germany - he yelled at the TV as the Berlin Wall was coming down. Later some months he lamented the unification with his final words on the subject, "They are a violent and warlike people. They should not be unified."
My father was with the 21st NZ Battalion, 2nd NZ Division at both Tebaga Gap and Takrouna - he served 1 week short of 4 years in Nth Africa and Italy!
Channels like these have made me more passionate about history than any class 😊
You should have studied more.
Go and do your own research as well.
Rommel describing the Americans as Britain's Italians. That must've stung!
As an American, I have no problem with that characterization. No sting for me! At that time for that theater it was essentially correct, due at least somewhat to inexperience.
However, a month later, the Americans contributed to the victory in North Africa. Then Sicily, then a bunch of other stuff.
His statement on the US military aged like milk.
It didn't sting as much compared to what the Germans were experiencing and where the US Army was in 1945.
It did sting a little haha. But as was pointed out, it was pretty accurate at the time.
Due to numbers
Not skill
I have nowhere else to say this but my grandad and his brother were two of a three man squad who operated a vickers gun at Tunis. They are on record as being the first into the city along with another gentleman. They got medals for gallantry, as vickers gunners had to run in front of the front line, set up, then provide cover.
They were cannon fodder. Yet both survived. The greatest generation bar none.
He must have been in 7th armoured then right?
One word. Logistics.
Granted Rommel wasn't a fantastic logistician. However even the best logistician cannot use supplies that don't exist. Having pulled Italian backsides out of the fire it might be reasonably expected that they would provide their allies with /promised/ levels of supply. However the Italian merchant navy never even came close to supplying half or even a quarter of what they had promised. Thus even when Rommel's supply lines /were/ short he lacked the supplies he needed.
A lot of his logistics ended up at the bottom of the Mediterranean because the allies knew when they were being shipped across from reading the German Enigma messages. They were able to target the ships especially the fuel tankers that were vital for the German war effort,
@@rhysthomas5811 Agreed. Malta was so much a better strategic target than Crete. That little island with all its little planes- a real thorn for axis logistics.
@@rhysthomas5811 I would agree except the Italian shipping never even /tried/ to fulfil their obligation, so what the Allies sank simply worsened an already shabby situation.
Germans were not known for their staff work. It was a real weakness they never addressed. They had small staffs and keeping track of the boring but necessary parts was messed up.
The US dealt with the massive military expansion by having really big staffs. It let them use their civilian expertise effectively and just got stuff done. For example, take a manager from a shipping company, train him enough in military procedure to fit in, don't let him have command responsibility, and let him do what he does best.
@@recoil53 true, and Hitler was notorious for having more than one organisation doing the same job so there were endless turf wars.
As a New Zealand Defence Force vet', it was nice to see you reference N.Z Division participation in this campaign as an national unit rather than just another 'British Empire' group. Thank you.
It was said at the time that 90th Light regarded 2nd New Zealand as their special opponent, and in their final hours asked to be allowed to surrender to them.
In 2nd New Zealand's final confrontation with the 90th Light in May 1943, Freyberg had sent a message to the German Division stating "..your position is hopeless. We have fought you for two years and have no wish to annihilate you." The reply was "..We appreciate your message and we realise our position is hopeless; but we have our duty to perform."
He really called us Italians. Even 80 years later that hurts
But he then praises the Americans a bit later, so at least there's that 😅
I wasn't sure if I was the only one who felt that gut punch 😂
I've read where it was Bri'sh officers that referred to Americans as "their Italians" instead.
@@amogusenjoyer That was key - the Americans learned fast.
What the British and some Germans didn't appreciate was that America had just entered the war. At the same point in their time line, British troops were getting kicked out of France, then Norway. Even further down the road, they get their @sses handed to them in Singapore and have Force Z wrecked.
The US Army started the war with 200K soldiers and ended up with 16M. That is an expansion of 80x. The dilution of experience is unreal.
Hadda way with words, didn't he ?
It should be pointed out that the german surrendered on the 12 of may and the italian on the 13. Messe (the italian commander) received orders to surrender only if he received the "honor of arms". He asked the 12 but the british refused so he continued to fight untill a message arrived from Rome written by Mussolini. In this message Messe was nomineted Marshal of Italy (the highest rank at the time) and he was ordered to surrender (because it would be bad news for the population to know that the germans had abandoned their ally).
Mussolini getting the Italian troops to surrender instead of fighting to the very end also stands in sharp contrast to Hitler's "stand or die" orders.
Yea this channel only spews allied propaganda. It's been said by even allied generals that the Italians fought harder in Tunisia but these clowns will never mention that.
@@Frank-pc2rskeep seething mario
@@elemperadordemexico Keep telling people to seeth over the internet tough guy.
@@Frank-pc2rs Was Tunisia French or Italian before WW1/2
The Axis lost the Tunisian campaign after El Alamein and Allied landings in northwest Africa. There was no way the Axis was going to ship enough men and supplies. They never could before and there's no reason they could improve on that now. Especially now with combined Allied air forces and navies.
The Tunisian campaign is also where the Western Allied Air Forces start combining into a major juggernaut. The Luftwaffe airlift attempts to supply Tunisia were ravaged by Allied fighters. The Germans brought in a huge amount of their airlift capability to Tunisia. They even did a "Panzer Lehr" moment before Panzer Lehr existed by over a year: The Luftwaffe pulled instructors from Germany to fly these transport sorties, only for them to get massacred by fighters. From here on out, the true bleeding white of the Luftwaffe begins. It only gets worse for them starting this campaign as Luftwaffe losses spike ever higher. If their losses were already bad enough here for Tunisia, the Allied air forces' preparation for the invasion of Sicily would be an absolute nightmare for the Germans.
US Army performance here wasn't surprising. This was the first real ground combat the US Army had against the German army. The Americans have had ample fighting prior to this, but that was over in the Pacific fighting the Japanese. But the greatly expanded US Army in Europe and the Mediterranean didn't have any of that combat experience. In contrast the Germans and British had already been fighting for years.
The only thing that the US Army could do was to "get blooded" by real combat experience and improve itself. They already have the material superiority.
"There was no way the Axis was going to ship enough men and supplies."
Exactly so, and excellent analysis. The problem for the Axis was that the Axis controlled port facilities were working at maximum cargo-landing capacity. The troops they had in North Africa were poorly supplied, and more troops and tanks would simply magnify the supply problem. There was no solution to the cargo landing capacity issue. Gaining some ports in Tunisia was offset by losing Tripoli, Tobruk and Benghazi. Logistics doomed the Axis efforts whatever they did or attempted.
"Britain's Italians". Damn, Rommel was throwing some serious shade at the US Army.
dude, i stop the video to laugh and see the comments, haha
Keep trying to laugh the same way when you remember where the US Army was in 1945.
Rommel was bipolar. He praised the Italians on many occasions and also blamed them for everything that went wrong even when he was the one responsible. Their have been books written on it but this mainstream channel will never adress things like that. Just the same allied propaganda and talking points from 80 years ago.
What the difference they all are colonizers
@@Warmaker01 Just as slow! Patton , 10m miles in a month in the Ardennes!
You make this familiar story come alive with great detail and analysis. Watching your presentations is a lot like reading a well written chapter with amazing, detailed illustrations and examples. I appreciate your seriousness of purpose and delivery.
Thanks!
What a costly, pointless, and ultimately futile exercise in reinforcing failure. It almost seems possibile Sun Tzu never got translated into German.
I'm very glad to see more coverage of 1943 campaigns on TH-cam. I consider this year to be the most underrated of the war. Hopeful in the future, could there be coverage of Operation Cartwheel in the Pacific?
we have much more planned on 1943. Thanks for the suggestion on Operation Cartwheel, will see what we can do.
@@realtimehistoryOperation bagration
@@realtimehistory👌
Always wished to know more about Von Arnold. He seemed like a highly competent general.
Regardless of skill and wiles, the Tunisia campaign is a microcosm of the rest of the war: the Germans don't have enough men on the scene nor the ability to get more war materiel to them to put up a sufficient resistance.
Or rational war aims
…..and of course they weren’t invited to North Africa, or anywhere else for that matter.
Stonewall Jackson was never involved in any "last stand" during the Civil War. Jackson was famed, and most noted, for his ability to out-maneuver the Union forces that often outnumbered his own, culminating in his end run around the Army of the Potomac at the Battle of Chancellorsville, which sealed a big victory for Lee's Army of Northern Virginia, but also Jackson's death after he was wounded by friendly fire. I suspect Fredenhall was referring to a surprise maneuver a la Jackson.
Great pronunciation when you read Rommel's opinion on U.S battle performance! Nicely made as well.
Have visited Tunisia and in and around Kaserine pass ..
Very rocky with scrub ,was quite hot with the odd water fall making it in places look very green ,almost Europe looking in places ..
On 19-20 April 1943 the New Zealand Division set off to clear the foothills between Enfidaville and Takrouna.
While the 6th (NZ) Brigade, on the right, achieved its objectives without too much difficulty, the 5th (NZ) Brigade suffered heavy casualties as it pushed forward in an area dominated by Takrouna, an outcrop of rock rising steeply from the plain at the end of a ridge. Troops from 28th (Maori) Battalion managed to scale the heights and seized the summit after fierce fighting. Determined counter-attacks forced the New Zealanders off Takrouna but it was retaken on 21 April by a small group led by Sergeant Haane Manahi.
Men from other units also joined the assault, including Sergeant Walter Smith (23 Battalion), who used telephone cables to pull himself up to Takrouna's main ridge. One senior British commander described this action as ‘the most gallant feat of arms’ he saw during the war. Smith received a DCM for his part in the battle. Manahi was recommended for a VC but was instead awarded a DCM.
An EXCELLENT presentation...please keep these excellent contributions coming...cannot wait for the next one
At 12:45
Von Arnim did not lose "15 of his 19 Tigers" in the two battles at the end of February.
He was in possession of only 18 Tigers at the time, and only 7 got completely destroyed. The rest, whether driven or towed back, did serve again later.
Von Arnim also said the San Marco Marines were the best soldiers he ever commanded.
Indeed. There were still 15 Tigers left at the turn of May I believe. The Tigers were only lost very sporadically in Tunisia. The 'Tiger graveyard' at Beja was an anomaly.
That shows the quality of this channels Docs!😂
08:47 not only costly and stubborn, but also one from the losing side,
by a general who got himself killed, not long afterward.
(behind the curtains? you've got curtains? are they green?)
Estupendo trabajo de investigación, la edición del vídeo, de primera! Gracias por publicar. 🇲🇽
The maps are really Beautiful! Shout out the map maker. Looks great in 4K as well! :)
Love this channel ❤
Great video! Thanks a lot.
My dad was a First Army sapper (North Africa Sicily Italy Germany), for the rest of his life he would use a lot of Indian and Italian words. For example, a rifle was always a Bundook.
It is an Arabic word.
Another fantastic historical coverage episode was shared by an excellent ( RTH ) channel... it was a great historical coverage episode...thank you very much 👍🏻
Love every one of your videos! Just curious-- are there any plans to make more Napoleon episodes? Y'all need to set the record straight now that Ridley's mangled it!
we might do some in the future. sadly the 1813 campaign was not very popular and we lost a lot of money on them. so need to think about which parts we cover.
@@realtimehistory oh no but the 1813 campaign was like your best video! Oh, that breaks my heart!!
I always learn! Thank you for such keen history documentaries.
Thank you for these videos RTH!
Excellent video!
It is a matter of record that Rommel had the greatest respect for the Australian Light Horse
Great vid
One point I would like to raise.
At a certain moment the main airfield the germans used to supply Stalingrad became untennable so they had to move it a substatial distance furter behind their lines.
But, the rate of supply's delivered didn't noticably drop.
That would indicate they didn't had a shortage of planes to deliver with, but a shortage of supply's to deliver.
Taking away planes wasn't a strategic error, the supply situation remained the same, meaning, pretty bad.
All else, very food video 👍🏻
It seems you dont know anything about the losses the german transport units had,right?????Another armchair general that has heard something that someone mentioned that he heard it!😂🤣
At Stalingrad, the Germans were never able to adequately supply their trapped Armies. They had insufficient airlift capacity (ie not enough of the right sort of aircraft, they were having to resort to using bombers with relativly low payloads, to supplement their transports). It was winter, which restricted the number of flights due to weather conditions. The Russian Air Force, almost for the first time, was able to achieve some measure of control and also deploy sufficient AA guns to reduce the number of aircraft available. The airfields in the pocket were either overrun or subject to air attack or artillery fire. Perhaps most significantly, Goering promised the Army and Hitler, to do something his staff knew was impossible, mainly to save face.
excellent video
For the rhythm of algo! It's easy for us to look back and criticise but I always felt Rommel was, not so much a one trick pony. but was limited in conceptual range. Of course there are many factors that played into it and we can armchair general all we like. We were not there.
Thank goodness the British convinced the US to not invade France in 1943 with their inexperienced troops. Can you imagine what would have happened compared to their defeat in Tunisia. There were four attacks beaten back until the Afrika Corps ran out of ammunition and fuel. These battles in Kasserine were their birth in fire. Horrible to say but these made the GIs better for the European theatre.
The American commander ordered his combat engineers to build him a hq bunker 30 miles back under a mountain..
what was the mountains name?
Leaving a comment for the algorithm. Greetings from Chicagoland!
greeting sfrom Berlin
Interesting how von Armin's plan would most likely have worked and set the Allies back at least a couple weeks if not months. Kasserine might have been a victory but a wasted one, putting the whole force behind the Sbiba gap and force it would have been harder but overall more successful.
I think that the crucial aspect has been overlooked a bit - how did Allies get total aerial domination, if Germans started campaign with stronger air forces? What caused fuel shortages? Transports could get to ports? Or Ploesti was already depleted? Was P-51 Mustang already introduced in mass scale, and was he really that superior compare to german fighters? Episode was, as always, great, but I feel a bit unsatisfied id that one area.
Fuel shortages and just pure attrition. IIRC only A-36s were in N. Africa. The heavy work was carried by P-40s , trop. Hurricanes and Spitfires.
Poznan, Germany was crippled by fuel shortages before and during the war. Rumanian oil supply filled only a very minor part of total Axis requirements. And all during this time, fuel was denied to the civilian sector which meant that the whole of Europe was starving to death quite rapidly. National Socialist mismanagement of the economy is perhaps the main reason why Germany's military defeat in the war was inevitable.
I read several German accounts from the time that they referred to the African surrender as second Stalingrad.
*14:38* on the map you can see Tatouine.
It's the village the desert planet of Tatooine in Star wars was named after outdoor shoots happened there.
15:30 does that say Tatooine?! 😂 is that where the name comes from or is that where it was filmed?! I’m running to google immediately for info lmao
Tataouine, Tunisia!!! It’s real! And the town was the inspiration behind Tatooine and there was filming on location!!
well researched
Churchill, asked if he was offended by Montgomery's inviting General.von Arnhem to dinner after.his surrender, instead offered his sincere condolences, saying "for I, too, have dined with Field Marshall Montgomery"
The Italian soldier was brave & hard fighting. Rommel's success depended on the base of Italians. If better lead they could have been more successful.
Today again, for anglo-american historians (not all) the campaign in North Africa was an exclusively affair of Rommel and Afrika Korp.
The italian Army was only a group of tourists following them through the desert.
Excerpt Winter 1940-41 with the defeat of the italians army, badly deploied and worse armed, especially in anti-tank, the Regio Esercito supported validly the Afrika Korp: Bir El Gobi, Tobruk, El Alamein, Tunis, and other, despite being inferior in armament.
They were bombing and droping chemical weapon on Ethiopian. Fascist was evil.
"... pull a Stonewall Jackson."
Did he mean lose the battle, then die to friendly fire?
Chancellorsville was a Confederate victory. It is a poor excuse for an order, though.
20:27: Montgomery's "last battle" in "late 1945?" The war was over in Europe in May 1945.
20:29: Montgomery's last battle in "late 1945"?
Excellent video for the algorithm thank you.
Interesting bibliography, and definitely not making a balls of it 🙂. But I would note the figure of 250 000 captured in Tunisia apparently stemmed from an off-hand remark Ike made to a reporter. Liddle Hart reckoned it to be significantly less - some 170 - 180 000 before the last fighting, based on returns on ration strengths. Still, an impressive victory, and not just because my uncles were involved (on the Brit/South African side).
My grandfather was a forward observer for the 9th Infantry, 26th field artillery division. He was part of the 800-mile forced march to Thala that saved the allied forces from defeat in that region. Random, just proud lol so I’m sharing
The locals were the real victims.
Brilliant map work mate 👍
It's weird how both germany and a century earlier france also were seeking glory in africa against the British empire. After the adventure turned against them, they just simply left their forces there and couldn't be arsed anymore really.
That 300.000 experienced troops could defend most of the axis held/occupied Mediterranean coastline with lot better chance. Italy also had some divisions in africe which were willing to fight not only eager to surrender.
Its very likely that Barbarossa could have succeeded in capturing Moscow in 42 if not for the troop and lostistics lost in trying to save Mussolini's adventure in Africa.
@obsidianjane4413
Conversely, it's also possible that had the Axis suceeded in North Africa, taken the Suez Canal etc then Turkey may have joined the Axis with the removal of British presence in the eastern Mediterranean, and this could have had major consequences for the USSR.
Apart from this video; EVERY TIME I hear Rommel mentioned he is heralded as I either a genius or a great strategic general. I've never understood this. In most of the battles I see he us retreating or making mistakes. Can someone share the battle where he is so brilliant? cause I don't see it.
gazala
I was just wondering if and how much equipment is lying in the desert waiting to be found??
Muy buenos los mapas y gráficos..enhorabuena
Solid video but I wish you focused more on documentaries about less covered history.
The New Zealanders did not have long to savour the victory in Tunisia. On 15 May the first units began their nearly 3000 km drive back to Egypt, reflecting on battles fought and comrades lost.
The last of the New Zealand Division reached Cairo on 1 June, cramming into camps at Maadi and Helwan. For 6000 of the longest-serving men, there was the prospect of an early return to New Zealand: they learned that they would go home on a three-month furlough.
Germany Faced a Military Impossibility In Africa After The Battle of El Alamein Their Supply Situation and Lack of Air Cover and Artillery ammunition,fuel and even Troops,Pushed Tighter and Tighter in their cauldron facing the sea, the best thing they could've done was An evacuation while fighting a delaying action against the unexperienced americans while saving most of their men and equipment while they can that they would be needing them for the defence of italy and france
Faced 2 British armies and one American army and no maneuver room
Wouldn’t reinforce Rommel in Libya yet reinforced in Tunisa where it was a lost cause
The 8th Army did 1,100 km in just 17 days from El Alamein to Benghazi. This was more than twice as fast as the 1st Army
Rommel’s biggest obstacle was the Med being an Allied Lake.
Much of his equipment and reinforcements ebbed up at the bottom of the sea.
The Allies only controlled Gibraltar, Malta and Egypt. The Axis controlled the northern coastline from France to Greece, and (fuel concerns aside) had naval parity with the British. The Italians really could've won that fight and gotten Rommel the supplies that he needed. The Royal Navy was stretched to limit in 1942, fighting the Germans, Italians and Japanese simultaneously, so it was certainly possible.
British forces and supplies had to come all the way from Britain (or Australia, India etc). It took a British division six weeks to get there, down the Atlantic, round Cape Town and up the Indian Ocean through the Suez Canal.
German U-boats were prevalent in the Atlantic. The west coast of Africa was a particularly deadly area.
@@lyndoncmp5751 Awkward question: you do know that the Strait of Gibraltar exists, right? The British regularly sent convoys through that route, most notably to Malta. Sorry if that sounds rude.
@@Cailus3542 Men were sent the long route via Cape Town. I've just read a book on the 44th Royal Tank Regiment. It took six weeks to reach Egypt from England. They were sent via Freetown and Cape Town then Suez Canal. This was typical.
@@Cailus3542 "The Italians really could've won that fight and gotten Rommel the supplies that he needed. "
No they couldn't. The Regia Marina had virtually no fuel with which to operate. Battleships cannot be moved except with lots of bunker oil. And the Regia Marina had had the stuffing taken out of it in November 1940 with the Taranto raid.
Wasn't Fredenhall relieved by Patton, who led an attack against the AC?
Patton did relieve Fredendall, but never encountered the Afrika Korps.
He was relieved by Eisenhower and replaced with Patton
The stats at the end are very dodgy, I don't see how the Luftwaffe losses in that one theatre could have been 41% of the entire airforce. 41% of the heavy transport fleet possibly, but I think there's been a mix up here
4:40 what is with German officers and lacking operational vision? They win a few battles and their strategy turns to “we’ll attack them here and figure out what to do next afterwards”
Great explanations thanks.
Thank you.
From what I've learned about Rommel, I gather he wasn't the impeccable military genius he's often painted to be. Rommel was a competent and skilled but ultimately overrated figure in his field; the Zinedine Zidane of the German military.
His early success against the British was because they took too long to adapt to fighting him. That changed with Monty.
I think he's overrated in modern times because people can latch onto his criticisms against H.
@@vgamedude12 But that's another thing: a lot of historians call that the "Rommel myth" and assert he wasn't truly some voracious critic of Hitler, nor even apolitical. What do you think of these claims?
@@SteelyBud I don't know enough about them to say one way or another.
@@vgamedude12 Fair enough, mate.
My dad 1st Army Royal Artillery . The Germans , mostly resented being captured. Upon coming across large amounts of Italiam POW`s , he and his mates were very concerned about their saftey, but not to worry. In the main the Italians were happy that they were out of the war, very few resisted. Then on to Italy and back in the fight with the Germans.
“Very few resisted”? The British 8th army was unable to break through the Italian 1st army at enfidaville. They surrendered only when they were encircled by USA and French troops who broke through the German 5th army.
@@Atlantisimo The 'Italian 1st Army' was half comprised of German Units. You might read about Wadi Akarit for further information?
@@dovetonsturdee7033about 6-7 Italian divisions and 3-4 German. But the great unit was called “Italian 1st army”, commanded by general Giovanni Messe and blocked the British 8th army at enfidaville until they were completely encircled due to the breakthrough on the 5.Panzerarmee front.
I know very well that war theatre.
@@Atlantisimo The Order of Battle of 1st 'Italian' Army at Wadi Akarit, 6-7 April, 1943, consisted of four Italian Divisions and three German Divisions.
@@dovetonsturdee7033 you cannot define the composition of an army just looking at its order of battle on a 1 day fighting.
As Gen. Messe wrote in his memories the 1st Italian army was originally composed by 4 Italian infantry divisions, 2 German light infantry divisions, the German Dak (15th panzer division), the Italian armored division Littorio, the saharian group (equivalent to another Italian division) and some support groups.
At Enfidaville the saharian group was no more and all the divisions were really under strength. But the British 8th army was still unable to breakthrough, and the Italian 1st army (who still had 3 German divisions within, even if the 15th panzer had no more than 15 tanks, more or less the same than the Piscicelli armored group) had to surrender due to the encirclement.
The shortage of oil certainly didn't help...
Hint: always make North point up. To swivel it sideways in order to fit more graphics into the map is confusing, to say the least.
My dad served in crusader mk3 in tumisia rommel was his favorite general
“Britain’s Italians”
American pride will never recover.
The German equipment was not suitable for muddy, forestry, rocky, and tight mountain passes of the Northwest. I was born in Le Kef.
My Father, Henry Ferguson Marshall was with the Lothian & Border Horse (1st Army, 6th Armoured Division, 26th Armoured Brigade) in Operation Torch and thought at Kasserine and the final defeat of the Germans as they drove through Hammamet to capture Cap Le Bon outside Tunis. The Lothians trapped 250,000 Axis POWs on the Cape. .
Again Rommel showed disregard for logistics with disastrous consequences
What logistics? You mean all those ships at the bottom of the Med?
7:25 if he sends the plan to higher up, then Allies would have got a hold of it because they had broken the enigma code
Every battle he tried was the same. Being a one trick pony is never a sign of greatness.
Same as Patton. When Patton couldn't manoeuvre (Lorraine) he had no plan b. Even his boss Bradley said that.
3:05 very true
Dad Said Rommel Visited The Americans In The German Hospital and Was Concerned With There Care . Kasserine Was A Learning Curve For American Troops First Time Up To Bat , Just Green Troops Takes Time Remember Germany and England Had 2 Year Head Start On American.
The Aussies had pulled out and headed for New Guinea, the 6th and 9th divisions had served well at el alamein and Trobuk, the Kiwis stayed on.
Gettysburg and vicksburg please
Youre way ahead of yourself at the end. Just give us the details when we can see them. Please.
Clear voice and some easy speech.
I am surprised you didnt mention what stopped rommel right after the battle of kassarine pass.An american lost artelliary battallion showed up 20 wiles west of kassarine,and along with some infantry and engineers,they destroyed most of the german tanks and infantry,completely routing them.The officer in charge of U.S. artillary,was probably the best the americans had to offer when directing fire.Thanks for the video.
3:39 That comment reminded me of the show Hetalia (in which countries are depicted as people), and how both US and Italy are depicted as complete idiots (though US also is extremely strong, while Italy is the opposite).
This channel is mildly better than the History Channel.
Are you kidding? It's way better than the History Channel. This channel discusses real historical events and combines them with clips of documentary footage, photographs, and even quotes from the people who were there. The History Channel has ancient aliens, lumberjacks, and semi-trucks driving across the ice. 😆
Tunisgrad huh... so who is Tunis? Never heard of him
Its capital of Tunsia
You are really calling Montgomery's pursuit of the Africa corps slow? The fastest and furthest armoured advance of the war? and you call it slow. 1400 miles in about 2 weeks, ok he was a tortoise wasn't he. Same as the Great swan in northern Europe 350 miles in 5 days slow and ponderous.....
Indeed. And it wasn't Montgomery's fault the Anglo-American forces in Operation Torch failed to move across Tunisia and got bogged down. Now THAT was slow. They were supposed to get across Tunisia and trap Rommel from the west, cutting off his supplies from Tunis. They failed to do that and Montgomery ended up having to defeat the Axis in Tunisia for them.
Please do a video on the Warsaw Uprising in 1944 🇵🇱
I’d have thought his last battle would have been in France, 1944?
"Go to Kasserine right away and pull a Stonewall Jackson" is so modern internet vibe like its saying go there and cook or go there and be x historical figure
Strategically, I never understood why the Germans went to North Africa. A great waste of resources.
Ir is Tunisia, as in Tunis NOT Two knees ia
Montgomery moved slowly. What a shock.😊
Only homefront heroes criticize a general for putting the lives of his soldiers and the success of his mission over glory in headlong dashes. War is not a video game.
@@davidhoward4715 I guess Montgomery was the only general who cared about his men. It seems impossible to criticize him without some Brit getting his back all askew. I cannot stand Bernard Montgomery.
@@bookaufman9643 At least the British general cared about there men, do you even know why they did it anyway?
*generals
@@ChrisCrossClash do I know why they did what? Your question is a little to general. See what I did there? Lol.