The Messenger & The Nostalgia Game Trap

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 269

  • @underthemayo
    @underthemayo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    BRAWLER and Mayo merch here! teespring.com/stores/underthemayo
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  • @tommytimmy9742
    @tommytimmy9742 3 ปีที่แล้ว +127

    Regular "U just want every game to be Doom Eternal" here XD. Thx for the vid tho

  • @balmain2496
    @balmain2496 3 ปีที่แล้ว +97

    The Messenger is a modern masterpiece.
    I can definitely understand the complaints for the metroidvania aspect but for me, it was a perfect 10/10 and one of the best games I’ve ever played.

    • @mac1bc
      @mac1bc 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I agree. I had a blast, even when it changed to 16-bit

    • @Maskeroff.
      @Maskeroff. 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      TRUE

    • @maiwei
      @maiwei 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      I think people over-exaggerate the tediousness of the backtracking. Sure, it can be annoying having to figure out the prophecies and traversing through old areas, but you also get plenty of new areas along with the backtracking, so it's not all that bad. To each their own, though.

    • @SolidSnake240
      @SolidSnake240 4 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      ​@@maiweiYea, backtracking is just a part of the genre. I don't mind it if they also throw in new stuff as well.

  • @Lolotrixx
    @Lolotrixx 3 ปีที่แล้ว +127

    I can totally agree that the Metroidvania part of the Messenger isn’t very fun, and I am someone who loves the genre. I put a 100+ hours into Hollow Knight and I played most of the Metroid series. The main issue is that these levels are designed for linear platforming and not exploration. And Navigation in a platformer isn’t terribly fun if you need to stop your momentum every few screens to look for a potential hidden path.
    The fun of Metroidvania is uncovering a giant interconnected map and its secrets, eventually knowing your environment well enough so you can seamlessly navigate through it with the new abilities you collected.
    The Messengers levels are mostly just linear corridors from left to right with the occasional vertical segment thrown in. It becomes very boring walking through the same linear tube 10 times. I like the game well enough, but they either should have cut that segment entirely or made a new area that supports exploration.

    • @nesoukkefka1741
      @nesoukkefka1741 2 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      IMO the biggest issue, and at the same time inconsistancy, is the lack of Teleporting spot, which is a shame caue this could have been easily fix as each level has about 3 Shopkeeper portals, why these portals aren't teleporting spot ? (weither by default or through an upgrade) this would have already significantly reduce the amount of back tracking in the older levels and this is such an obvious and easy fix instead of having only 1 portal per Level, doesn't change that the structure is indeed for linear plateforming and not intended for exploration, but this would have make less annoying.
      I still enjoy the game tough, the annoyance is mainly at the beginning of the Metroidvania section where you have to back track, cause when you found a new level however it's back to being a linear plateformer and you can complete each of the new level in one go with no back track needed, it's really the first levels that have this issue.

    • @DaMorg3
      @DaMorg3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

      I am about 3 hrs past the transition to Metroidvania. All in all, the game has been great. However, your comment is well said, and I agree wholeheartedly.
      The relatively limited ability to move from checkpoint to checkpoint (or at least shop gate checkpoint to shop gate checkpoint) gets old very fast. There is not doubt a good reason for this, which is that they WANT you to have to re-explore to find all the power stones and music notes, but after already having uncovered the whole map and found all the traversal upgrades, it just starts to grate.

  • @Beaut2013
    @Beaut2013 3 ปีที่แล้ว +14

    The bgm really helps you explore the game. I don't know if you beat it, but beating it unlocks items that let you skip portions of the exploration parts to try to speed run the game. You also get jukebox mode that will let you choose whatever track from the bgm you want while you play. The dlc also offers you a mode that will take that demon away that resurrects you for money for a shadow mode that lets you deal something like 4 times the damage. However like in older games if you die, you are gone.

  • @aaryannsethi
    @aaryannsethi 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The biggest issue in this game I feel like, isn't the sudden genre shift even. It's the back tracking. I'd be fine with back tracking through an area maybe once for a quest but you need to back track through areas multiple times in some cases which gets somewhat boring eventually. It's a bit of a shame considering that there's still other new areas, gags and overall fun to be had, but it's dragged down by the back tracking. I know it's technically supposed to be the point of a metroidvania but I feel like they should have added more teleportation points in some areas. However, the joy I get from literally everything else in this game is enough that I don't ever mind it too much. But, I know this is still a MAJOR issue of this game.

  • @CaribbeanOlympian
    @CaribbeanOlympian 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    The Messenger is a game I’ve held off on playing for quite a while since Celeste, Hollow Knight, the Blaster Master Zero trilogy, and ESPECIALLY the Axiom Verge games grabbed me by the throat and pinned me down. Oh my god I’m so glad that I finally got to it. Definitely another platformer to stand alongside my favorites. :)

    • @Voidling242
      @Voidling242 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I love hollow kight

  • @eternalnerd29149
    @eternalnerd29149 3 ปีที่แล้ว +24

    I'm one of the ones who loved when The Messenger switched to a Metroidvania, and seriously this is one of my favorite games at this point. Kudos to you for not letting the genre change taint your entire review, I understand "search action" games aren't for everyone, it was cool to hear a glowing review from someone who doesn't enjoy the genre like I do. Keep doin your thing Mayo!

    • @Densiozo
      @Densiozo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I loved the switching. It felt like big twist for me. I was like damn it's not over. I loved every part of it. The switch was nice, big surprise

    • @Maskeroff.
      @Maskeroff. 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Big agree

  • @mattmurphy2755
    @mattmurphy2755 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    I absolutely love this game, I put tons of hours into it. The music is really catchy as well, it really got stuck in head.

  • @pelieskola5708
    @pelieskola5708 3 ปีที่แล้ว +66

    I am a huge metroidvania fan, but I didn't actually like the genre change. Just like you I found myself having less fun with this game after the twist. I haven't even finished it yet actually. I Feel like the mechanics and abilities of this game just fit a linear game much more.

    • @underthemayo
      @underthemayo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

      Big agree here.

    • @Allen.Christian
      @Allen.Christian 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      Yeah, huge Metroidvania fan here as well. Haven't reached the twist in The Messenger, but I'm genuinely not looking forward to it. It's so good at what it's already doing, I have idea why they'd want to shift it.

    • @theodorealenas3171
      @theodorealenas3171 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I dislike DmC 3 because it switches between complex combat and complex level design, in a similar way. I prefer Hollow Knight for the pure levels, DmC 5 for the pure combat and Doom 2 1996 for fusing combat and level in one. But full on combat and full on level is ew. It's pointless. I said it in my stem review of DmC 3 and people loved me if you think upside down.

    • @Jose-se9pu
      @Jose-se9pu 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      I was hooked to this game for two days straight until the "twist"...never finished it, I completely lost interest in it.

    • @underthemayo
      @underthemayo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

      @@Jose-se9pu It's honestly not surprisingly how many people feel this way. Still, I do applaud the twist. It's a bold decision and if you're into that thing it must be a dream come true.

  • @paulgerald1985
    @paulgerald1985 3 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    I picked this up when Epic had it for free last year. The game was very good, but the music though. Absolute bangers. Stuck in my head for weeks after

  • @raptyrn1290
    @raptyrn1290 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Mayo, if you enjoy platformers, I can't recommend Metroid Dread enough. I _really_ think you'd enjoy it. The movement feels outstanding. And the game in general really lives up to the "Dread" subtitle, from the music right down to the core gameplay concepts. Certain areas use fog and film grain to heighten the tension. It's superb!

  • @RacingSnails64
    @RacingSnails64 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Oh, that title had me worried. Nice video!
    I've heard some bad criticism of Messenger before, but you actually made it sound pretty appealing! I'll be looking more into it now.

  • @WickedKillaYT
    @WickedKillaYT ปีที่แล้ว +1

    6:55 "I've been singing this stuff for days" Umm.. singing? Lol

  • @moony1289
    @moony1289 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    I loved The Messenger! I need to play it again and then try the dlc. Everyone was raving about Celeste the year it came out, but for me The Messenger was better than Celeste that year...

  • @imperialphoenix1229
    @imperialphoenix1229 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I 99%ed the messanger, I only ever didn't finish "the deal" mode. No respawns in a platformer with instakill hazards is almost impossible, but damn if it isn't fun to try

    • @raulrojas9253
      @raulrojas9253 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Is very easy actually just back up ur save file before attempts.

    • @BoTheJo
      @BoTheJo 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      The deal mode is tough the most dangerous part of are spikes, falls, and being crushed to death

    • @imperialphoenix1229
      @imperialphoenix1229 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@raulrojas9253 it literally wipes the save on death wym

  • @radicallyecstatic222
    @radicallyecstatic222 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love your breakdown of video games and your honesty of how much enjoyment you get from them. Your succinct and eloquent with your word choice which makes listening all that much more interesting to listen to. I look forward to more videos from you.

  • @unidentified2026
    @unidentified2026 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

    My favorite part about the game was the grapple hook, I mean rope dart. It felt incredible to use all through out the game. On a different note, I'm guessing you aren't gonna try hollow knight then. After all it's a metroidvania with influence from dark souls. Must sound like a nightmare.

    • @RacingSnails64
      @RacingSnails64 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I'm not sure how he'd feel about Hollow Knight. Its combat is very fast and brutal and demands mastery and mobility, it's not slow and weighty like Dark Souls. Its similarities are more in lore and presentation and collecting your money from where you previously died.
      The thing that'd keep him from liking it is probably all the running all over the huge open map. He said he likes linear games, which I can totally get. HK is much more organically and openly designed though, not just repurposing linear areas. I'd love to see him give it a shot!

  • @PlayStaySherwin
    @PlayStaySherwin 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    If you want something similar to this that's linear the the whole way through, try Cyber Shadow. It's probably my favorite game all year, came out in January, and nobody is talking about it. It's even on game pass.

    • @aeonxx
      @aeonxx 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Cyber Shadow was way more enjoyable than The Messenger. It's a tighter game that doesn't waste your time and I prefer the gritty style over the silly and lame jokes in The Messenger.

  • @Caliboyjosh10
    @Caliboyjosh10 3 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    This is why you're great Mayo, you talk about a game and compare it, dissect it and even if you don't enjoy it all or even finish it, you still recommend it, if it's fresh and fun even for a few hours. Also I was one that loved the Metroid genre change :)

  • @SeelenPixel
    @SeelenPixel 3 ปีที่แล้ว +127

    The problem isn't the genre change. The problem is the world structure not being optimized for a metroidvania exploration game. All the levels are in a linear path so the exploration part is limited to a horizontal world. That gets really repetitive. They should have scrambled the levels in to a new order which also includes vertical levels and paths. But thats a lot of work for a mid-game twist. So I understand why they did not do it.

    • @frozezone2947
      @frozezone2947 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      that's a retarded take on side scrolling platforming games

    • @Luca-pb4dc
      @Luca-pb4dc 3 ปีที่แล้ว +6

      @@frozezone2947 Hes talking about in the middle of the game when it becomes a metroidvania. The levels are great for a sidescroller but dont work for a metroidvania, because your just bactracking through the same levels you've already played with no branching paths.

    • @mac1bc
      @mac1bc 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I don't mind it still being a bit linear halfway. Makes it easier to get through the maps.

    • @starbournehero771
      @starbournehero771 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Also the new levels are basically just tougher versions of the levels, with some secrets thrown in, and new harder levels! You do get some back tracking needed with back door connections to help out, but if you stay vigilant, you reduce the old stuff you pass through

  • @tincturdiode
    @tincturdiode 3 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Holy shit Mayo talking about my favorite game

  • @AKblackandredYT
    @AKblackandredYT 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I'm really fascinated by your opinions on game systems and challenge. It's definitely more fun if a game's difficulty is linked to mastery of mechanics and systems instead of just hit spongey combat.

  • @nixot1216
    @nixot1216 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    finished this a while back, fantastic game. I agree the metroidvania stuff felt tedious, but man...the music, characters and art styles were great

  • @onehundredpercentboyband
    @onehundredpercentboyband 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Yep! Loved The Messenger!

  • @Saibott55
    @Saibott55 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Man... That really is a cool hat

  • @PanMan47
    @PanMan47 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This game sounds great, I’m surprised I didn’t hear about it earlier

  • @SyncroScales
    @SyncroScales 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ninja Gaiden was in the Platform(s) Arcade, Amiga, Amstrad CPC, Atari Lynx, DOS, Game Boy, Game Gear, Master System, Microsoft Windows, mobile phone, PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16.

  • @jmhaces
    @jmhaces 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I only just played this game a couple of weeks ago and I just loved it. I was blown away to find out that it's set in the same world as the recent "Sea of Stars" made by the same studio.

  • @kobarsos82
    @kobarsos82 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Honestly, I kinda wish this meme stopped appearing all throughout the internet. Because yeah, its a meme at this point.
    Calling nostalghia something that is objectively very good in what it tries to accomplish as a game in a genre, while the game obviously has merits that make the pixel graphics irrelevant (and actually a charm of its own) and is at the end of a day a very enjoyable game is what matters the most. This is true for many games. The Nostalgia glasses has tired me very much as a discussion and it appears surrounding the reputation of so many games out there. Stop being jealous of what other people enjoy and just play what you like is the obvious answer. At this point the nostalghia statement is just "coping" for people that simply refuse to believe that a non-3d game can be amazing. Well guess what. It can be amazing. Graphics (pixel, 3d or whatever else) will always be irrelevant compared to pure gameplay and true love that some developers can give to their games. Its just how it is. Wish more people realized this.
    Cheers for the video, The Messenger and Celeste were indeed amazing surprises for me. Slay the Spire, Hades and Hollow knight even more. Indie scene is great these days.
    PS: Hopefully you checked the messenger dlc too. It was pretty cool as extra content.

  • @raulrojas9253
    @raulrojas9253 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    The messenger Kick ass, as for the Metroidvania thing....ok mayo is fine.

  • @L4ppi
    @L4ppi 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Every Metroidvania fan needs to play that game, I'm even starting to really like metroidvanias thanks to The Messenger, I think they nailed it, for me it was like the first half but with more "stuff", also some of the zones were more like levels because you needed to complete it once.

  • @gavinmack7076
    @gavinmack7076 หลายเดือนก่อน

    i really like sea of stars and its connection with the messenger, especially how time shards became a currency. the messenger is my most favorite game and sea of stars is right behind it

  • @Χρύσα-σ8β
    @Χρύσα-σ8β 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    one nice thing i found while i was browsing for messenger if you stop the game you can see that the little flying guy actually moves, this is because he can control time so not even the stop button can stop him lol

  • @leonardoteixeirabargeri9765
    @leonardoteixeirabargeri9765 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I loved this game when I played it, I loved the idea of going to the future and afterwards being able to switch to the past and future in the metroidvania style. I got every token of this game (just not in the DLC) and after I finished it I just wanted to play it again, it's just so nice! The artstyle and soundtrack were things that really made me get into this game!

  • @knightfromlordran
    @knightfromlordran 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    I love everything about the messenger and now practice speedrunning the linear portion of the game

  • @TheGalaxyWings
    @TheGalaxyWings 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I had literally never heard of ninja gaiden until I played the messenger and it's easily become one of my favourite platformers. I even bought sea of stars on a whim after finishing it last week, even though I don’t like rpgs, and I'm already 10 hours in

  • @dantetouchdown9030
    @dantetouchdown9030 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I also like how all the "new" levels you unlock are linear and you dont need to come back

  • @aarondubourg3706
    @aarondubourg3706 ปีที่แล้ว

    Early on, they showed a way to implement the Metroidvania twist. Have it be a vertical world where you can climb or fall into the different levels. Imagine if the reveal was it was an interconnected map and now that you are an expert of the game, you can travel up and down the short way. Maybe make it a platforming challenge that was always there from the start.

  • @lalitendudas9401
    @lalitendudas9401 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    One of my fav games from 2019 including Katna Zero!

    • @iliaskossovas9143
      @iliaskossovas9143 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Both great games and very replayable. I played Katakana zero about 5 times and each time it felt a little different than the last. After the second playthrough I didn't use slow motion and items once because the game makes you want to experiment. Also both games have really smart writing in my opinion even tho the story was never the main attraction.

    • @lalitendudas9401
      @lalitendudas9401 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@iliaskossovas9143 oh yea I've beaten it many times as well, at first I thought u were supposed to slow Mo to hit bullets but the more I play, I could just deflect them at normal speed. And hey, a really compelling story too- waiting for the planned dlc to save the little girl!

  • @bogus604
    @bogus604 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    7:31 When I first fought this boss I thought it was impossible to beat it cuz i didn't know you had to do this. It took me until my second playthrough to figure it out.

  • @giacomogiliberti2673
    @giacomogiliberti2673 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The dragon fight looks exactly the same as a dragon fight that was present in an old ninja turtles game for the gba, it seems wiered to me that such a niece and forgotten game gets referenced so I think that the ninja turtles game itself made the dragon copying/referencing another more influential game that I don't know because I know very little about classic platform games, either way it's really cool seeing a part of my gaming childhood almost litteraly brought over to a new game
    As a sidenote this game looks amazing even tho I have never heard about it, thank you "man that compares games with doom eternal for a living" for letting me discover this game

  • @gillythekid
    @gillythekid 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Literally exactly how I felt when I played it. Loved every second of it.. and then the twist happened. Gave it a chance for a couple hours and then I just put it down and never picked it back up

    • @tylernol1566
      @tylernol1566 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Talk to the blue hood in the Tower of Time to get a riddle and then talk to the Merchant, he will sell you a hint which is a map marker on exactly where to go next. For me I needed this to continue playing too, and found the rest of the game opening up new areas and was quite challenging and fun! Please give it a try!

  • @Ataraxia0
    @Ataraxia0 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    glad to see someone express that the game itself isn't bad, they just dislike that specific kind of gameplay. i personally enjoyed the genre change, i was getting a little tired of the linearity so it was nice and refreshing to see it become a metroidvania. i also feel it brought a lot more depth to the world, since i've always felt that most linear games are more about level design than world design, and as a result tend to feel pretty lifeless to me. being able to explore areas i've already been to really fleshed them out, and i loved playing through the new areas, especially the dark and gloomy/bright paradise one with the bat/butterfly boss. the whole juxtaposition of the 2 different tones felt really cool, and the bad part being in the past and the good part being in the future was a nice take, since its almost always the future being bad. overall i really enjoyed the game and its dlc, 10/10

  • @BoTheJo
    @BoTheJo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The game is amazing! I probably have 60 hours in it. It's in my top 10 games ever

    • @Maskeroff.
      @Maskeroff. 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Same! 💯

  • @MrJanus19
    @MrJanus19 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    got this game as soon it released. it was amazing. also didn't like the backtracking in the second part, but the first part of the game was so amazing that i felt very satisfied

  • @Terron29
    @Terron29 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The indie scene is pretty much the only scene for me now. The vast majority of my most anticipated games coming up are all either indie or kickstarted or something much more obscure. Few exceptions like elden ring and breath of the wild 2 but other than them its pretty much Eiyuden Chronicles, Hollow Knight Silk Song, Sea of stars, Last faith, Shin Megami Tensei 5, Pathfinder wrath of the righteous. God Bless the indie scene.

  • @someoneusedtobeknown2645
    @someoneusedtobeknown2645 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    0:34
    "Moments caught on camera before disaster."
    Wizard of Legend is still a roguelike beat'em up that I stand by being good.

  • @AaronPaden
    @AaronPaden 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I play a lot of retro games myself so as something in that scene I don't really agree that those games aren't fun to play today or that a new game necessarily has to bring in brand new mechanics to be fun. But you do bring up a point that I want to restate with my added perspective as a retrogamer.
    Nostalgia isn't enough. It doesn't make a mediocre game good. It definitely isn't enough to sustain a hobby as a retrogamer. My favorite example here is Goldeneye. People love to say - reductively - that the game "aged badly", but really it's the same game that it always was. It always had awkward controls and a terrible framerate. The thing that gave it value was it enable you to have great memories of you and your friends sitting around the couch playing the game and laughing at the absurdity of it. And you can't get that exact situation back today.
    I'm not particularly fond of the way we commonly look critically at old games today. This historical perspective where we talk about the value of nostalgia is just reductive too handwavy to be useful in a serious analysis. It's better IMO to either critique the game for what it actually is or - if you insist on talking about the game from a historical perspective it's better to go into detail about what has changed in ourselves and our society to change our perspective on the game today.

  • @RagnarokMic
    @RagnarokMic ปีที่แล้ว

    You had me worried there for a second, talking about how nostalgia only goes so far, and how after that a game needs to step up, I was like "Is he about to say and that's where the Messenger falls short?" because I don't want to have to find this man and burn his house down.
    Cyber Shadow was another that did great with the style, though the Messenger is better.

  • @gaurd3
    @gaurd3 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    You're killing it. From Doom rag to Journalist. Someone get Cuphead

    • @fuckso2342
      @fuckso2342 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Cuphead was amazing and brutally hard. The bosses in that game are spectacular.

  • @DontJinxItYet
    @DontJinxItYet 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    i feel like you'd love axiom verge

  • @ben_is_musical-old11
    @ben_is_musical-old11 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    This perfectly sums up my experience. The graphics, music and tone are all awesome, I just preffered the linear sections significantly more and couldn't motivate myself to play the metroidvania part. It just didn't feel as fun to me, maybe it's something about the constant feeling of progression with linear style games? That being said, Hollow Knight is an awesome metroidvania which I love but I agree with some other comments that the maps in The Messenger aren't optimised for that type of gameplay as much as they are linear progression. I suppose that's what the time portals are for but it just didn't feel as satisfying to search for hidden pathways through portals as it did to constantly progress. Love the idea though, and the switch between 8 and 16 bit in the game is something I didn't know I wanted but loved. Love the game, love this video. The end section just wasn't my style and I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who felt this way about what is ultimately an amazing game. I played it when it was on game pass and then when it left game pass bought it on Steam just so that I'd have it in my library.
    If you haven't played it, I think this is an experience that would be very worthy of your time. It's fantastic.

  • @JnGArtimation
    @JnGArtimation 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Feels like just some people thought too literal when it comes to nostalgia.
    To me, I just see it as "these are the resources you have for the time". Sure, I love Sonic the Hedgehog but that doesn't mean I want nothing but 32-bit Sonic games.
    Some modern games just do unnecessary add-ons that just ruin the experience. You'll get SoR4 and DOOM 2016 and it's just right. Meanwhile, you'll get Star Fox Zero then start asking God "why?".
    Honestly, the second I saw the plot of RE Village, I started calling Ethan "Harry Mason". "Father goes to mysterious place of undesignated location", "Has to find young daughter", "Daughter is used for some kind of religious cult", "Antagonist has some close relation to the daughter", "One of your aids is an authority figure". Only thing missing was the monsters being some amalgamation of Ethan's psyche.
    That's also been my gripe with survival horror from Indies. It's like "yea, I'm supposed to survive, but, strip me away of anything to even try to fight back?" At least Fiona had a dog in Haunting Ground. Rule of Rose had wonky controls but it was still okay. I say "fight back" but I'm not meaning "give me a bazooka or a gun". Take Outlast, you telling me I can't break off the leg of a table and least swing at a few people coming my way? Just feels they take the "hide and seek" too literal when surviving can be anything. But "hiding" is just easier to animate. I say Alien Isolation is a perfect example of being able to fight back/defend yourself but still keeping the intensity that the Alien is gonna murder you by any means.
    Some games just work better being linear. Others work better being open-world. I don't believe every game needs to be a sandbox. Not every game needs a "skill tree". Hell, I miss unlocking extra game modes and characters just by meeting conditions that wasn't always "beat game on bullshit difficulty". Back then, there was just "play 500 matches". "Beat game-within-game mode". "Unlock this character by getting to this part of the game but not killing certain character here". "Beat game in under XXX hours". From 2011 to 2016, they tried bringing that back but they gave you really shitty requirements to "unlock" things. I'm fine with "progression unlocks" but I'm not too keen on grindy things. I'm cool with farming though. Finding new armor pieces as I play games like Nioh 2.
    I just feel that "if you're gonna make a game, remember WHY you liked that genre of the game you're making and try to bring that experience out". Don't just be "some dude who just want to work for a video game dev team/company". There's a LOT of things I love about fighting games, brawlers like SoR, shooters like Perfect Dark and Halo, Survival Horrors like Silent Hill and RE2, and RPGs like Grandia 2 and FF7. I'm just tired of game devs and showrunners becoming pretentious dicks now. That being said, with how SoR4 was handled, I am looking forward to TMNT Shredder's Revenge.

  • @RagnarokMic
    @RagnarokMic ปีที่แล้ว

    "I'm not a fan of Metroid or Castlevania."
    **GRABS MATCHES**

  • @Saturn2888
    @Saturn2888 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Having an old game meeting todays standards is why I avoid these throwback games. I agree, I need more than just punch and kick now.

  • @dantetouchdown9030
    @dantetouchdown9030 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I love the messenger, one of the only games I platinumed

  • @cheater00
    @cheater00 3 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    I agree about one thing and disagree about another. I agree about the metroidvania thing. Personally I like metroidvanias. I finished Axiom Verge on my Wii U back when it came out and I loved it. But when Messenger changed to Metroidvania I was like "uhhh so what do I do next". I tried using the hints system (talking to the shop keeper), but that didn't help, and I kinda didn't feel like braining it out with a walkthrough at the time because it was a stressful time in my life.
    I fully disagree about what you said around minute 9. You said that high difficulty was "how you got your money's worth" in 8-bit and 16-bit games. That's patently not true. It's been documented beyond any doubt that companies in the US heightened the difficulty of games because they were making mad money off of rentals, and of course if the game was difficult (or even impossible) to beat, you would rent it for way longer. It marred many games and made them terrible to play because of outright unfair difficulty. I feel like you need to revisit what you believe about this aspect.

    • @onceyougozach2607
      @onceyougozach2607 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      What you're saying doesn't really disagree with he was saying

    • @cheater00
      @cheater00 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@onceyougozach2607 it does

    • @onceyougozach2607
      @onceyougozach2607 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@cheater00 nah it doesn't

  • @badd7407
    @badd7407 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wish we see more mecha Indi game and ps2 horror as Siren,Haunted ground,Ghost hunter,Suffering and those

  • @Leitis_Fella
    @Leitis_Fella 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Messenger's sense of humor seemed great when I saw Mayo playing it on stream.

  • @FocusedNeroXL27
    @FocusedNeroXL27 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Played this game a few years ago on a whim. Gotta go back. It's on games pass for Xbox and its on switch too. Very accessible.

  • @tokyobassist
    @tokyobassist 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I wasn't crazy about the genre change as a fan of Metroidvania stuff that's why I gravitated a bit more towards Cyber Shadow since it felt more like a NG game with a touch of Sunsoft.

  • @WickedKillaYT
    @WickedKillaYT ปีที่แล้ว

    I used to be really turned off by most 8 and 16bit style games or even most indies in general (I'm 22yo), but Undertale and Celeste really opened me up to it. Undertale was the first turn based rpg I've played since Pokemon and Celeste my first 2d platformer since Mario, really brought me back to those genres even. The Messenger and Sea of Stars have been an amazing surprise (thanks Jirard) that I am playing and loving simultaneously! I actually really dislike metroidvanias and even hollow knight which I LOVE almost everything about I have been unable to get myself to play more then 5 hours, yet for some reason I've really enjoyed when The Messenger made that switch. Idk something about it just reminded me of going back to find all the strawberries, b and c-sides in Celeste (I 100% Celeste)

  • @moststuffedoreo6453
    @moststuffedoreo6453 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    The more i watch videos on this channel, the more I feel like people sleep on you’re channel, i generally forget that i’m watching someone that only has 90k subs and makes very fun videos to watch! i hope you’re channel continues to grow and gets more attention that you deserve!

  • @stevekjr9563
    @stevekjr9563 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Did we live in the same house growing up? TMNT and Ghostbusters were both brutally hard and unclear.

  • @Canalbiruta
    @Canalbiruta 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I already saw the twist coming in regards of the metroidvania style cuz i got to play expecting since the game is classified as one. Thing is, the game has a pretty linear styled level design, so the linear bits portion was the part i had the most fun, although i still liked a lot the metroidvania portion I'd say my favorite part was the linear one. Now play mark of the ninja! That game has some pretty interesting stealth mechanics

  • @mannyomega713
    @mannyomega713 2 ปีที่แล้ว

    got all the achievements for this game.. damn that star messenger

  • @citizenducktv9169
    @citizenducktv9169 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Boy, do I love waking up to a new Mayo video. Good stuff!

  • @CompleteAnimation
    @CompleteAnimation 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yes, yes, a million times yes! I also enjoyed the ever living daylights out of this game, but when it became a metroidvania, it just killed it for me. If they would have just instead made all the new challenges part of the linear game, but let you revisit old levels for missed secrets and upgrades, it would have been so much better.
    There is another new game that channels 8-bit ninja gaiden called Cyber Shadow. It is completely linear, but is a touch too difficult, and I think I prefer the core gameplay of The Messenger. But Cyber Shadow is worth checking out.

  • @EchoLocoCJ
    @EchoLocoCJ 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    You've sold me on this
    This looks super fun

  • @Jobby_James
    @Jobby_James 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I have never played Ninja Gaiden or The Messenger, but I do love games which present themselves as if there were released during the 90s, but take full advantage of current hardware and refined gameplay: two examples I can think of are Sonic Mania and Black Mesa. Because of this, I would enjoy the game, except for the Metroidvania sections. Many have said this in the comments before and I can agree with them, it is not that the genre is bad, it is just that the levels aren't designed for that type of gameplay, thus it results in tedious backtracking. I see what they were trying to do, but the problem is that they didn't make the levels accommodate the type of gameplay (exploration and backtracking), I do appreciate that they pay homage to those games as well as Ninja Gaiden but I feel that this could have been done way better or not done at all.
    I am honestly surprised that you didn't dedicate a video on just the Nostalgia Game Trap, as I feel this is abused to make games that don't innovate and try to impersonate older games without directly plagiarising them (including their flaws or outdated design). I hate those sorts of games as they don't innovate and try anything new and rely on cheap nostalgia to rake in the profits and gain traction.

    • @underthemayo
      @underthemayo  3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      I may some day. But at the moment I don't have enough to say about it to make a full video on the topic.

  • @bruhder5854
    @bruhder5854 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    On a side note, have you looked into "it takes two"? If you haven't, it's definitely one I'd say you should look into.

  • @onceyougozach2607
    @onceyougozach2607 3 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Yeah it's pretty well known that this game fell off in the 2nd half. It's still worth playing though and I think the merchant dialogue was hilarious

  • @netslamders6803
    @netslamders6803 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    My man really just dropped a celeste, messenger and ghostrunner review while also being a doom eternal content creator, all of which being in my top 5 games

    • @Voidling242
      @Voidling242 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      What's number 5

    • @netslamders6803
      @netslamders6803 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      Probably tied between super metroid and hollow knight

  • @wasistdustin
    @wasistdustin ปีที่แล้ว

    while i understand your gripes with the metroidvania twist, I took a huge deal of enjoyment out of that section. I love Metroidvanias in general so it's no big suprise, but running through everything again, switching between past and future, seeing what I have missed and overall steadily getting better at the game felt really really good and rewarding. Probably a 10/10 for me, I will definetly try NG+ soon

  • @GuyOnTheInternet53
    @GuyOnTheInternet53 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    i loved the whole game. plays very tight, great music, great bosses. the metroidvania stuff was also really enjoyable at least for me. didnt find it repetitave at all due to how well designed the gameplay and levels are. blows my mind its only 20 bucks, its well worth 30.

  • @CBGog
    @CBGog 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    As a big metroid fan, I actually share your opinion here. I liked the messenger till the 2nd part by a lot more. Its a cool idea but idk it just felt like I started a new game with maps(that were once linear gauntlets) I'd already seen before. I got bored very quickly since the world design barely has any cool things to find and hardly felt like any meaningful progression was happening anymore. I was interested in the story but I became so bored of looking at the old levels again that I guess I just dropped the game. Nice review mayo! Glad to see you felt the same way! It really plays to the strengths of 2d platformers and not search action gameplay

  • @tnshanobighost6749
    @tnshanobighost6749 ปีที่แล้ว

    I loved the Metroid mania shift.

  • @Just__Garbage
    @Just__Garbage 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I do kinda agree with your take on Prodeus, it just did not grab me like the other throw back shooter. Its good, I like it but I think Civvie11's statement of being too much like DOOM is true. I had the same problem with Nightmare Reaper(but I'm still in ep 1 so i it ever ends and I get to ep 2 then it would probably get better)not because its too simple or too much like some other shooter, its just so repetitive level after level.

  • @pradeepdungdung4379
    @pradeepdungdung4379 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I get where you're coming from I'm not a fan of metroidvania style Castlevania games I prefer classic linear Castlevania games over that

  • @viewtiful1doubleokamihand253
    @viewtiful1doubleokamihand253 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Ben "Yahtzee" Croshaw - "...if I am enjoying the game as the game then is it then just nostalgia that is making the game good ?"
    Or something like that. In his Shovel Knight Zero Punctuation.

  • @guybrushthreepwood8174
    @guybrushthreepwood8174 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I highly recommend Katana Zero to anyone who likes these type of games.

  • @rsolsjo
    @rsolsjo 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Loved it. Played it on Game Pass earlier in the year, beat the entire game and then started the DLC.. and then it was removed from Game Pass so I was like.. ok, guess I'm done, whatever. 😂 But I'll probably go back and finish it out at some point.

  • @kss_yt
    @kss_yt ปีที่แล้ว

    it is NOT a nostalgia trap. i can confirm this as i am a teen who discovered The Messenger on sale and thought why not and proceeded to put it in my top 10 games played

  • @feivong7712
    @feivong7712 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    New game + after beat main game. Demon revive you at cost of 50 crystal. If less - game over. More similar to old times.

  • @BHHProductions
    @BHHProductions 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Metroid Dread is the only game that has come out in 2021 that I like. Shame

  • @ermut5771
    @ermut5771 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Agree about Batman NES,it was awesome and I still have to finish it ;)

  • @wilsonmateo6346
    @wilsonmateo6346 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    really loved this game, although like you say, i really did not like when they made that metroid vania change, not because it was bad, but it did not encoure exploration that much, many times i explored the levels on my own, just to find out, i cant keep going because i dont have that item (they never talked to you about) and it would be find, but since portals are so far in between, that i really dislike it, love your video mate, new follower

  • @ronipletikosa
    @ronipletikosa 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    the messenger future and present mechanic is literally the titanfall 2 timehshifting device except here its the point of the game!

  • @claudiosacchi3720
    @claudiosacchi3720 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Yes, finally someone who appreciates "solid linear progression"!!

  • @ilijapajkanovic5784
    @ilijapajkanovic5784 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    47 times asking mayo to talk about Serious Sam

  • @SuperfluousMoniker
    @SuperfluousMoniker 3 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    As someone who doesn't exactly love Metroidvanias but likes the good ones well enough, I felt the same way about the genre shift. It really hurts the game's pace. In fact I find myself in complete agreement with pretty much everything you've said about the game. I was a bit more annoyed at the amount of 'meta' in the story than you seemed to be, I'd say. There was good writing in there and it got some chuckles out of me, but it went a bit too far for my taste.

  • @pagb666
    @pagb666 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    As i said on stream... I was having A BLAST with The Messenger, but it was a bummer when it changed to a Metroidvania. So I stopped before I ended hating it.

  • @solid_fire9388
    @solid_fire9388 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    great content as always man, keep up the good work !

  • @madmikemike
    @madmikemike 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I’m glad you got to enjoy what you did like about the game. I loved almost everything about the game, especially switching from 8 to 16 bit and changing the landscape. I thought that was so cool 😎 thanks for being honest about what you didn’t care for about the game. I’ll never totally understand why some people get upset that you didn’t like absolutely everything about a game they like. Cheers Mayo love your vids bro

  • @j-sun3821
    @j-sun3821 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I agree about the genre switch, I like metroidvanias but the backtracking isn't what makes it fun...I will say though I did still go through it and finish it and the ending was really something, would really recommend finishing it.

  • @jonathanbrockway5861
    @jonathanbrockway5861 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I ❤ that you called your player Robocop; the devil is in the details as always! Dead or alive you're coming with me!😁

  • @tylernol1566
    @tylernol1566 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    I didn't want to watch this video at first, Mayo! I was afraid you'd give me things to think about that I wasn't ready for :)
    I'm glad I tuned in, I 100% agree with you! I thought the game was a 10/10 until the change, then it went to 7/10 because it instantly got repetitive and boring. But then I found out on TH-cam that you could talk to an NPC in the Tower of Time and the Merchant will sell you a hint as a map marker for where to go. This little nudge instantly made the game bearable and I started progressing again until I beat it, landing the game in my eyes at a solid 8/10. I'll play it again every year or 2 no doubt!

  • @maxgoldstein7202
    @maxgoldstein7202 3 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    As a massive Celeste fan I definitely want to try this.

    • @GuyOnTheInternet53
      @GuyOnTheInternet53 3 ปีที่แล้ว

      the later levels for sure give off some celeste vibes

  • @GlowieNoa
    @GlowieNoa 3 ปีที่แล้ว

    Oh hell yeah, been excited about this one