Thank you for a good presentation! I am 25% Ingrian, my grandfather escaped to Finland just in time. The whole Northern Ingria was destroyed in 1930s and those relatives who stayed behind were captured, shot to death in prison, or deported to Kazakhstan and Siberia, sent to gulags in Chelyabinsk, Ural, etc. It was an ethnic cleansing totally equal to holocaust. Stalin was a total monster. It's incomprehensible to me that his popularity is constantly growing in Russia.
Thanks, excellent video! My friend Lauri Randla of Ingrian descent has written and directed a film called ’Näkemiin, Neuvostoliitto’ that was the first ever fiction film in Ingrian language. His grandmother’s story is breathtaking, but I will not spoil it because he’s writing about that, too.
When I went round the finno-Ugric people's museum in Tartu, Estonia I think the plight of the Ingrians was sad but the Votic people's was even sadder they were down to 20 native speakers I had friends in Estonia who were working on recording and potentially saving it by recording the language.
Ingrians are basically Finns who settled in Ingria during the Swedish era. They were basically ethnically cleansed from Ingria during the Soviet era. Before the Russians or the Swedes the region has always been inhabited by Finnic peoples of one kind or another. Izhorians are considered indigenous to the place, but also Karelians and Veps have lived around the area. Karelians are in many ways the most Finnish of the Balto-Finnic peoples after the actual Finns and were therefore also a focus of nationalist activism during the early years of Finnish independence. It was only during the last century that Finnic peoples turned into small minorities in northwestern Russia. Interestingly enough, there is currently a political movement calling for independent Ingria and a dissolution of entire Russia along admistrative lines. Even more surprisingly it was even legal in Russia before 2022 and apparently still works from elsewhere. It doesn't seem to focus on ethnicity or language as much as on political independence of that region.
Imo it is the biggest shame of whole war that we had to return karelians and ingrians to soviet union even when they were 100% finnish and joined armyas volu teers. There are great books of finnish soldiers (from karelia and ingria) going to gulaks even as late as 1947.
@@AinulaadneMsc Yes. Some got away to sweden (with warnings that what would happen if they did not leave).Some did not listen (did not understand the situation) and some had no warnings. I am sorry I forgot to mention those Estonian volunteers! There are several books here that tell part of their story.
Im one of the so called Russians. I have mainly Baltic and Fino-Ugric genes. There are a lot of enthusiastic people that are working towards liberation of our lands and republics. A lot of people are tired and started to learn their true identity , which is most likely fino-ugric based, not Slavic. And yeah, most of us are considered as extremists for the government, that’s why we leave Russia.
Russians especially those at the north are descended from the older tribes that lived there They only have adopted a new language But russian is a lot harsher, having less soft sounds than other slavic languages and its most likely because of uralic influence People living in moscow in 1400s were majority vepsian not russian, there are even church documents that habe survived from that era that are in vepsian Genetically russians are very close to finnish people but russians are also a very multiethnic nation East karelia is nowadays populated by people that speak mostly russian but their ancestors have lots of karelians in them Same applies to many other different regions of russia
Yes, I hope that Russians will come to respect their Finnic roots and try to become more like how the Finnish, Estonian, and Sámi people are today -- loving freedom and democratic values
Ever thought about making some video about Irish history? I would love for other finns to see about the independence war and many struggles Ireland has been through. Great video!
When I grew up in Turku, we had the privilege of having an Ingrian caretaker in the house where I lived. They were childless and loved children, so we kids had good days. The Klementjeffs were Greek Orthodox. I told about them to an Ingrian I met in Sweden. He used to explain what strange people they were. But he just snorted when I told him about my acquaintances - because they were Orthodox. To him it was a lower class…
The Swedish and Russian Empires and their wars divided up Finland,or more domesticated and forced taxes on Finno-Ugric,Baltic Finns,stole "our native language",our own "religion",killed our people. Replaced or forced their ways on us. The separation would be at hand,and also compensations from these Moskowithyc,Swedish Kings and Governments that attacked a Native People like the Finns are of Europe.
You didnt covered Soviet terror between 1920-1939. I quete Regina Bauer here: "The early 20th century brought civil war to Russia and Finland, affecting Ingria, with a population of around 130,000. In 1919, an Ingrian Finnish breakaway movement emerged, aiming to establish an independent Northern Ingrian republic and unite with newly independent Finland. Starting in 1928, violence erupted with compulsory collectivization in Ingria. Approximately 18,000 people were forcibly deported from Northern Ingria, while another 7,000 were sent to different regions, aiming to instill fear and enforce collective farming. In subsequent years, more deportations took place, totaling 20,000 to Siberia and Central Asia. This expulsion of Finns from their ancestral lands contributed to the tensions leading to the Finnish-Russian war. Churches, cultural activities, and social organizations were shut down by 1932, and by 1937, Ingrian cultural life came to a standstill. Вuring the blockade of Leningrad, 25,000--30,000 Finns were deported to Siberia. In 1937, just preceding the total dispersion of the Ingrians, all Finnish schools were russified, most of the intellectuals killed and the Ingrian cultural life was completely extinguished."
paul ariste made many good books and articles on the votians. tons of interesting stuff happend with the votians. for example: they may have been the kylfings mentioned in many old norse sagas. i suggest making a video on them aswell!
Not very likely that they are those Kylfing people, Votes never lived in northern Finland and Norway, where they are mentioned to have fought against Norwegians.
Thanks for the video! Actually Ingria is not the name of the isthmus. It is called Karelian Isthmus which borders to Rajajoki river. Southbound that river begins the historical area of Ingria. Although Valkeasaari municipal settlement in Ingria is sometimes mentioned as a part of Karelian Isthmus.
Freedom for the Karelian,Vepsät,Inkerit,Setot and all Finno-Ugric people that have been forced to live in a Colony of the Communists(Stalin,Lenin,Trotsky) and Tsars. Northern Russia and the Baltic Sea areas are Finno Ugric Native peoples lands from the beginning. The Swedish/Russian Empires with their Mad and greedy lords just exploited the land and Native peoples. If this happened today,there would be the same talk on news that we hear of Ukrainians,Palestinians these days.
Shame that russians took our land and destroyed those areas and language 😢 we always wanted live in peace and never wanted to harm anyone and it will be like that but never give up if someone attacks us. All ingrian wanted to be here end of war but Stalin decide to murder them or send them to gulag 😢 they just wanted to live in Finland where they belong
Thanks for this informative video. First learned of the Ingrians from a Malysian friend working in Helsinki, soon after arriving in Finland as an exchange student in the late summer of 1990. Not much could be learned at that time, as little was easily available or documented on the history of the Inkerilaiset, their relationships with Finland, Estonia and Russia and what has become of them. Whereas most of the residents of Finnish Karelia were evacuated to Finland in 1944 and treated as citizens, the right of return put into affect by President Koivisto in 1990 for Ingrians appears to have been ambivalent. Partly because Finland is linguistically and geographically distinct from Ingria, and partly because the application of the policy was subject to Finns' perception of Ingrians as distant cousins rather than kindred as well as Finland's relationship with the Russian Federation after 1991.
Not "most" but practically all (AFAIK only 19 stayed) residents were evacuated from the ceded part of the Finnish Karelia in (1940 and) 1944. They were treated as citizens because that's exactly what they were - Finns just like the others. The (Lutheran) Ingrian Finns are not linguistically distinct - they are Finnish-speaking Finns. However their dialect has been somewhat influenced by russian. The (Orthodox) indigenous Finnic Ingrians - the Izhorians and the Votes - are a bit more distant. The problem with the right of the Ingrians to "return" was, that because of the decades of oppression and russification, many of them had lost much of their language and culture. The older people still identified themselves as Ingrians and spoke Finnish. However already the middle-aged and especially the younger ones less so. At first it was enough to have one of your grandparents to be Finnish, to be eligible to move to Finland - with your spouse and children. Later at least two Finnish grandparents were required. So - at worst a 25% Finnish, russified "Ingrian" moved to Finland with a 100% russian spouse and 12,5% Finnish children, none of whom spoke Finnish or had any connection to Ingrian culture.
There was also older, original, Finnic population named Izhorians there. Also finnic tribes lived where is nowadays st Petersburg BEFORE Russians. Stolen land from finnic people.
Unfortunately, the map seen here 0:30 is not very accurate. Because “Finnic” is a term used specifically for Baltic-Finnic peoples (Finns, Estonians, Karelians, Vepsians, Izhorians, Votians and Livonians) and not the Saamics or the Permics. And the language that used to be spoken by the majority at Finland’s southeastern border and along the Karelian Isthmus and Ingria was not Karelian or Ingrian, but Finnish. Another important thing to keep in mind is that the term “Ingrian Finns” is only used for the Finnish-speaking inhabitants of Ingria who mostly descended from Finnish settlers from Eastern Finland (Savo specifically) and the Karelian Isthmus. The native people of Ingria (Izhorians and Votians) are often not included in this group.
You didn't mention the origin of those Ingrians, they came during the Swedish Empire times mainly from Savo and settled for better farming and trading grounds that Ingria offered.
hmm, tässä pitäs erottaa inkeroiset ja inkeriläiset. Ainoastaan jälkimmäiset ovat savosta muuttaneita. And english, there is ingrians and google translator gives ingersoll? however two diffirent groups where latter are originally live at ingria and ingrians are moved from savo about year 1500(moved from swedish owned finland for lower taxation to build settlements). I dont even know if there is translation for inkeroiset. Both are small group, at max about 120 000 people all together at best times. thou perhaps big world history didnt know them?
I wish Ingria and Karelia were independent countries from russia, with the return of the ingrisns and karelians back from thrir forced deportations, and the kicking out of the russian trespassers.
Tell me, who is illegally crossing the border? I have lived in St. Petersburg since birth, 2 generations. This is my home, my homeland, should I leave it?
@@newsky8786 you are russina and not ingrian? then yes, you should leave. russians are pestilances and ursurpers. russians have no claims of naturalization outside of Muscovia. all russians are interlopers and squaters.
I wish Vadja and Isuri were independet countries from russia, with the return of the vadjans and isuris back from their forced deportation, and the kicking out of the ingrian and russian trespassers. Wait, ingrians are back home!
@@joco8290 FYI - St. Petersburg was built on Finnish land, in the middle of the Finns, originally by the enslaved Finns and on the Finnish bones. All the original place names in Ingria - St. Petersburg included - are in Finnish.
My grandfathers were shot against the wall, but our family still remembers. We are inkeri people
Thank you very much for the video! Very interesting!
Thank you for a good presentation! I am 25% Ingrian, my grandfather escaped to Finland just in time. The whole Northern Ingria was destroyed in 1930s and those relatives who stayed behind were captured, shot to death in prison, or deported to Kazakhstan and Siberia, sent to gulags in Chelyabinsk, Ural, etc. It was an ethnic cleansing totally equal to holocaust. Stalin was a total monster. It's incomprehensible to me that his popularity is constantly growing in Russia.
Stalin was a monster and now Pootin .
Thanks, excellent video! My friend Lauri Randla of Ingrian descent has written and directed a film called ’Näkemiin, Neuvostoliitto’ that was the first ever fiction film in Ingrian language. His grandmother’s story is breathtaking, but I will not spoil it because he’s writing about that, too.
Wow! Amazing! I'll check it out thanks!
Was good film, I watched it when I lived in Estonia. It was interesting, example "porisee" means "to speak"@@aaronstavern
When I went round the finno-Ugric people's museum
in Tartu, Estonia
I think the plight of the Ingrians was sad
but the Votic people's was even sadder
they were down to 20 native speakers
I had friends in Estonia who were working on
recording and potentially saving it
by recording the language.
It is the Eesti Rahva Muuseum in Tartu.
Ingrians are basically Finns who settled in Ingria during the Swedish era. They were basically ethnically cleansed from Ingria during the Soviet era. Before the Russians or the Swedes the region has always been inhabited by Finnic peoples of one kind or another. Izhorians are considered indigenous to the place, but also Karelians and Veps have lived around the area. Karelians are in many ways the most Finnish of the Balto-Finnic peoples after the actual Finns and were therefore also a focus of nationalist activism during the early years of Finnish independence. It was only during the last century that Finnic peoples turned into small minorities in northwestern Russia.
Interestingly enough, there is currently a political movement calling for independent Ingria and a dissolution of entire Russia along admistrative lines. Even more surprisingly it was even legal in Russia before 2022 and apparently still works from elsewhere. It doesn't seem to focus on ethnicity or language as much as on political independence of that region.
Imo it is the biggest shame of whole war that we had to return karelians and ingrians to soviet union even when they were 100% finnish and joined armyas volu teers. There are great books of finnish soldiers (from karelia and ingria) going to gulaks even as late as 1947.
@@lottaraatikainen3942 Damn... Did all of the go to gulags even if they were just civilians? I think they did. Even women.
same situation with estonians. Many guys who were fought on finnish side were handed over to soviet union.
@@AinulaadneMsc Yes. Some got away to sweden (with warnings that what would happen if they did not leave).Some did not listen (did not understand the situation) and some had no warnings. I am sorry I forgot to mention those Estonian volunteers! There are several books here that tell part of their story.
I am one of Ingrians, who lived in Saint-Petersbourg for novadays, but now I also leaved my Kotimaa. Thanks you, that you tell our story❤
My pleasure!
Im one of the so called Russians. I have mainly Baltic and Fino-Ugric genes. There are a lot of enthusiastic people that are working towards liberation of our lands and republics. A lot of people are tired and started to learn their true identity , which is most likely fino-ugric based, not Slavic. And yeah, most of us are considered as extremists for the government, that’s why we leave Russia.
Hope that russians go live other side of ural mountains and small finnick and ugrians live harmony at this side.
@@riippumatonlinjathere is no “Russians”
@@deonys- Northwestern Russians indeed are at least partly, Finnic. You find more Slavic people in the South.
Russians especially those at the north are descended from the older tribes that lived there
They only have adopted a new language
But russian is a lot harsher, having less soft sounds than other slavic languages and its most likely because of uralic influence
People living in moscow in 1400s were majority vepsian not russian, there are even church documents that habe survived from that era that are in vepsian
Genetically russians are very close to finnish people but russians are also a very multiethnic nation
East karelia is nowadays populated by people that speak mostly russian but their ancestors have lots of karelians in them
Same applies to many other different regions of russia
Yes, I hope that Russians will come to respect their Finnic roots and try to become more like how the Finnish, Estonian, and Sámi people are today -- loving freedom and democratic values
Thank you for exposing a piece of Finnish history that I had never heard of.
Ever thought about making some video about Irish history? I would love for other finns to see about the independence war and many struggles Ireland has been through. Great video!
Thanks!
Thank you very much 💪🏻
Outstanding work, thank you!
Hey! Great video! We've been loving your content. 🔥
When I grew up in Turku, we had the privilege of having an Ingrian caretaker in the house where I lived. They were childless and loved children, so we kids had good days. The Klementjeffs were Greek Orthodox. I told about them to an Ingrian I met in Sweden. He used to explain what strange people they were. But he just snorted when I told him about my acquaintances - because they were Orthodox. To him it was a lower class…
The Swedish and Russian Empires and their wars divided up Finland,or more domesticated and forced taxes on Finno-Ugric,Baltic Finns,stole "our native language",our own "religion",killed our people. Replaced or forced their ways on us. The separation would be at hand,and also compensations from these Moskowithyc,Swedish Kings and Governments that attacked a Native People like the Finns are of Europe.
You didnt covered Soviet terror between 1920-1939.
I quete Regina Bauer here:
"The early 20th century brought civil war to Russia and Finland, affecting Ingria, with a population of around 130,000. In 1919, an Ingrian Finnish breakaway movement emerged, aiming to establish an independent Northern Ingrian republic and unite with newly independent Finland.
Starting in 1928, violence erupted with compulsory collectivization in Ingria. Approximately 18,000 people were forcibly deported from Northern Ingria, while another 7,000 were sent to different regions, aiming to instill fear and enforce collective farming.
In subsequent years, more deportations took place, totaling 20,000 to Siberia and Central Asia. This expulsion of Finns from their ancestral lands contributed to the tensions leading to the Finnish-Russian war.
Churches, cultural activities, and social organizations were shut down by 1932, and by 1937, Ingrian cultural life came to a standstill. Вuring the blockade of Leningrad, 25,000--30,000 Finns were deported to Siberia.
In 1937, just preceding the total dispersion of the Ingrians, all Finnish schools were russified, most of the intellectuals killed and the Ingrian cultural life was completely extinguished."
There was persecution by soviets already before the WWII. There is document on Yle Areena "Inkerinmaa".
My best friend is of Ingrian origin. Proud as hell.
Threatens to smack me with a bundle of rye when I tease her.
paul ariste made many good books and articles on the votians. tons of interesting stuff happend with the votians. for example: they may have been the kylfings mentioned in many old norse sagas. i suggest making a video on them aswell!
Not very likely that they are those Kylfing people, Votes never lived in northern Finland and Norway, where they are mentioned to have fought against Norwegians.
@@molotovribbentrop2839 yeah but it is still an interesting theory. and the kylfings are interesting
Когда-нибудь Ингрия станет свободной республикой
когда свиньи будут летать и когда тебя из дурки выпишут
Never
@@vali11d1 Never say never
Thanks for the video! Actually Ingria is not the name of the isthmus. It is called Karelian Isthmus which borders to Rajajoki river. Southbound that river begins the historical area of Ingria. Although Valkeasaari municipal settlement in Ingria is sometimes mentioned as a part of Karelian Isthmus.
Freedom for the Karelian,Vepsät,Inkerit,Setot and all Finno-Ugric people that have been forced to live in a Colony of the Communists(Stalin,Lenin,Trotsky) and Tsars. Northern Russia and the Baltic Sea areas are Finno Ugric Native peoples lands from the beginning. The Swedish/Russian Empires with their Mad and greedy lords just exploited the land and Native peoples. If this happened today,there would be the same talk on news that we hear of Ukrainians,Palestinians these days.
Make a video about vepsian people 🙏🏻
Shame that russians took our land and destroyed those areas and language 😢 we always wanted live in peace and never wanted to harm anyone and it will be like that but never give up if someone attacks us. All ingrian wanted to be here end of war but Stalin decide to murder them or send them to gulag 😢 they just wanted to live in Finland where they belong
Thanks for this informative video. First learned of the Ingrians from a Malysian friend working in Helsinki, soon after arriving in Finland as an exchange student in the late summer of 1990. Not much could be learned at that time, as little was easily available or documented on the history of the Inkerilaiset, their relationships with Finland, Estonia and Russia and what has become of them. Whereas most of the residents of Finnish Karelia were evacuated to Finland in 1944 and treated as citizens, the right of return put into affect by President Koivisto in 1990 for Ingrians appears to have been ambivalent. Partly because Finland is linguistically and geographically distinct from Ingria, and partly because the application of the policy was subject to Finns' perception of Ingrians as distant cousins rather than kindred as well as Finland's relationship with the Russian Federation after 1991.
Not "most" but practically all (AFAIK only 19 stayed) residents were evacuated from the ceded part of the Finnish Karelia in (1940 and) 1944.
They were treated as citizens because that's exactly what they were - Finns just like the others.
The (Lutheran) Ingrian Finns are not linguistically distinct - they are Finnish-speaking Finns. However their dialect has been somewhat influenced by russian.
The (Orthodox) indigenous Finnic Ingrians - the Izhorians and the Votes - are a bit more distant.
The problem with the right of the Ingrians to "return" was, that because of the decades of oppression and russification, many of them had lost much of their language and culture.
The older people still identified themselves as Ingrians and spoke Finnish. However already the middle-aged and especially the younger ones less so.
At first it was enough to have one of your grandparents to be Finnish, to be eligible to move to Finland - with your spouse and children. Later at least two Finnish grandparents were required.
So - at worst a 25% Finnish, russified "Ingrian" moved to Finland with a 100% russian spouse and 12,5% Finnish children, none of whom spoke Finnish or had any connection to Ingrian culture.
At 5:30 its karelian state flag
Does anybody know what building it is ?
@@larrywave Vanha Ylioppilastalo, Helsingissä.
@@Erkele kiitän
There was also older, original, Finnic population named Izhorians there. Also finnic tribes lived where is nowadays st Petersburg BEFORE Russians. Stolen land from finnic people.
Unfortunately, the map seen here 0:30 is not very accurate. Because “Finnic” is a term used specifically for Baltic-Finnic peoples (Finns, Estonians, Karelians, Vepsians, Izhorians, Votians and Livonians) and not the Saamics or the Permics. And the language that used to be spoken by the majority at Finland’s southeastern border and along the Karelian Isthmus and Ingria was not Karelian or Ingrian, but Finnish.
Another important thing to keep in mind is that the term “Ingrian Finns” is only used for the Finnish-speaking inhabitants of Ingria who mostly descended from Finnish settlers from Eastern Finland (Savo specifically) and the Karelian Isthmus. The native people of Ingria (Izhorians and Votians) are often not included in this group.
You didn't mention the origin of those Ingrians, they came during the Swedish Empire times mainly from Savo and settled for better farming and trading grounds that Ingria offered.
hmm, tässä pitäs erottaa inkeroiset ja inkeriläiset. Ainoastaan jälkimmäiset ovat savosta muuttaneita. And english, there is ingrians and google translator gives ingersoll? however two diffirent groups where latter are originally live at ingria and ingrians are moved from savo about year 1500(moved from swedish owned finland for lower taxation to build settlements). I dont even know if there is translation for inkeroiset. Both are small group, at max about 120 000 people all together at best times. thou perhaps big world history didnt know them?
@@riippumatonlinjaIzhorians
Yes he mentioned: th-cam.com/video/gG6NcW3UJFw/w-d-xo.html
Of course about Izhorians he could have mention that their religion was orthodox.
1323 treaty most important about the border east/west
I wish Ingria and Karelia were independent countries from russia, with the return of the ingrisns and karelians back from thrir forced deportations, and the kicking out of the russian trespassers.
Tell me, who is illegally crossing the border? I have lived in St. Petersburg since birth, 2 generations. This is my home, my homeland, should I leave it?
@@newsky8786 you are russina and not ingrian? then yes, you should leave. russians are pestilances and ursurpers. russians have no claims of naturalization outside of Muscovia. all russians are interlopers and squaters.
@@carlossaraiva8213 But Petrograd was built by Russians.
I wish Vadja and Isuri were independet countries from russia, with the return of the vadjans and isuris back from their forced deportation, and the kicking out of the ingrian and russian trespassers. Wait, ingrians are back home!
@@joco8290
FYI - St. Petersburg was built on Finnish land, in the middle of the Finns, originally by the enslaved Finns and on the Finnish bones.
All the original place names in Ingria - St. Petersburg included - are in Finnish.
eka
ангажированная чушь
5:41 its The flaggs of Sweden Finland and Norway
No you're actually very wrong there chap