@@bao007fei print off the uv's on a piece of paper then scan it back in isn't actually a bad idea you will have a very unique texture style, of course it would need to have very little seems and correctly numbered and re touched up afterwards that would quadruple the time but other than that good idea for a 100k sub special.
For those unaware (I only learned of this a couple days ago) the Foundry actually has Mari: Non-Commercial, which is free. It has some limitations like only 6 UDIM, and obv you can't make money with it, but it seems great for personal projects.
cant use at school not compatible with paying version foundry's educational program is messed up with substance in less then 30 minutes i can start the educational program no strings attached or complex registration, only the student id card is necessary
Great job, guys. Good representation of both software. I personally prefer Substance Painter, but I've also found myself enjoying texture painting in 3d Coat, because it's so easy and can use almost all the compatible Photoshop brushes, etc. I know 3d Coat isn't a big industry standard like the other two, but believe me, it's surprisingly powerful for texture creation. Zbrush is very good for diffuse and displacement work, but 3dCoat is PBR based like Painter is.
Started off learning painter but fell in love with Mari. Organizing your project per channel makes my life way more easier than working per texture set. In Mari i can just create multiple folders and mask the uv for each "material" then work on everything at the same time without having to switch and figure out what texture set is '1023' or '1011'. And the export manager in substance needs ALOT of work. Currently you cant even separate your channels into different file types for exporting.
Perhaps you should give Substance another try now they have painting across texture set feature. You can now just make a layer per channel you want to work on and have it apply to all texture sets the same, all at once.
Well....they're attacking the same problem just from the Mari side it's about using the old method of pushing large unchangeable static textures through a pipeline where Substance painter is procedural and generates/computes/streams completely changeable textures through a pipeline. Quixel Mixer should also be in this conversation.
Kel T pretty inaccurate...Quixel is far ahead in terms of texture creation for environment texturing and is pretty indispensable in the industry because of how quickly it will allow you to construct an exterior environment with gel, texture and LODs all ready to go. Right now Quixel and Substance Painter are specialized for different parts of the process but the could likely end up on a collision course again and it's not like it's a definite the Substance would win just because of it's weaknesses now.
Kel T Probably not...what's more likely is that they'll be exceptional companion apps. Substance would need to figure out how to accurately project, procedurally across multiple UV shells like a UDIM patch work or if PTex ever makes a come back(which would work better for a procedural texturing workflow)...but I don't think a multi-patch situation, outside of something Ptex like, will ever be efficient for a procedural texturing workflow.
Mari for baking AO, Curvature and projecting, ZBrush for Base Color and exporting Displacement and Normal maps, the rest in Substance. Would be great to have tools that eased that pipeline.
For quite some time now Substance Painter has been able to work with UDIMs as texture sets up to 8K on export, but you are stating Substance Painter can only do 1 UV map at 1K which is incorrect. You can setup as many UDIMs as you want in Maya then import them in Substance painter. Not being able to paint across texture sets is an non issue, I find especially with a procedural paint based workflow. This seems to be your major premise why Mari is better than Sustance for which you're presenting misinformation. I was wondering how Mari compares to SSS, which Substance can also do now, but this isn't covered.
@@igromad To the best of my knowledge, neither one is free unless you're talking about a student license. But Painter is significantly cheaper at $20 a month.
and then Adobe bought Algorithmic .... "as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened"
Most of the time for me, I like certain software based on how elegant the UI, and how well the software designed its user interactivity with the tools that I used.
Mari fan boi here, but Mari needs a better hashtag on twitter... honestly. Substance Painter is a really good software too. but since the UI / features changes really often, tutorials can be outdated really quick... maybe hard for some instructors :)
Well done! :) I started in Mari at 1.4.6. in 2012. Before layers. 2.0 finally brought in layers. After working in production with Body Paint for several years, Mari was awesome. I do like Substance. Learning it. UDIMs are accepted. Yet not like Mari as of yet. Funny how now, Mari has a material library, Mmmm. Competition? Like any tool, it depends on the demand of job and output. Thanks you guys for really awesome tutorials and comments. Cheers. -b
I love using substance painter. Where I live where 90% of the studios are commercials and deadlines happen faster, having a program that you can drop anything you want and show a result is fantastic! For personal projects is great since most of artist project aren't 32K resolution masterpieces instead of a nice 4K or 8K map. Overall I love substance and even after using Mari for years not sure if I can ever go back, specially if most studios are making the transition from Mari to Substance.
I feel like a big difference (added to the rest of the differences listed already) is the node system. I have been using Nuke for about 8 years now and Mari becomes really easy to understand and use if you use the node graph. it is basically like using Nuke and all this linking layers and stacking layers into layers is so visual, easy to understand and organised. I understand some people are not familiar with comp software but if you are, this is a huge difference and advantage too. And even though Substance also has a node system, the foundry pretty much maintains the same structure and way to do it.
that moment you realised you didnt baked your mesh while dragging and droping a smaterial... but the real deal will be when the sdesigner vector oriented workflow, for material creation, gets aplied to vertex painting in game engines. just getting the same rule follow stuff, curvature, normal, occlusion, light here, absence of light there etc, but working on vertex paint mode. no worry about resolution anymo. it just follows rules, but tilled.
Hi! You should also have a look at node-based workflow in mari. For example you can create a single paint node and with that drive many channels without problem :) Also gizmos are super nice (they are like smart materials), Cool video guys! Keep it up.
Nice video guys, was curious to listen to what you think. Glad you left it open in terms of winner, wise haha. I have started with Mari as well (painter at the time was supper slow) and loved Mari and all its tools. But then Painter years later got so much better that I just couldn't ignore it. Mind you we did a train asset (hardsurface hehe) on Peter Rabbit at Cutting edge in Painter - was nearly 40 udims I think and yes no udim support in the sense you can't paint across but because it was hardsurface as you know all worked out nicely we were really happy with the result. But Painter lacks some simple tools that are in Mari which makes it sometimes super frustrating to work with like projection lattice :) - you mentioned that one and ofcourse full UDIM support but Substance creators know about it. If it was so simple to implement it they would have done it ages ago but I am certain it is coming and then Mari for me would be very questionable. Price alone makes Mari super unattractive, their maitenantce fee is higher than the whole Painter Software itself. Sorry for a long post haha. Good stuff. But for people who are starting out my suggestion would be the same get to know both it really depends on a studio you are working these days and if you are contractor you will be bouncing around so helps to know both of them at least on a basic level and then you will pick up more.
Hey Serge! Totally agree - it's a good idea to learn both. They are both great and good for different use cases :) It will also make you a lot more employable.
To sum up Mari is good for film and Vfx, and Substance for games, I think you were being a bit harsh to Sp with regards to texture resolution it supports upto 8k baking and and supports udims and it will probably get better with each update
Wow, you're posting answers which i've just googled for. I'm elso intrigued by different purposes of UV(for rigging, vfx, texturing) you mentioned few times at begginers uv related videos.
Now, the other thing is that I've see Magdalena Dedala do some pretty detailed humanoid character textures and if you could recalculate it up to 8k or so up close I would imagine it would hold up well. I think it's more the issue that Substance isn't fully integrated into enough renderers so that you would never have to actually bake/lock the texture resolutions.
and even if Painter adds same surface Udim support, it still wont have the warp tool before projection that Mari has. I use painter 90% of the time, but in that aspect it definitely lagging behind. Same surface Udim organics. That's why I have to use Mari for projection and painting masks. Painter still always wins with hard surface though for sure. Especially now that I can texture hard surface procedurally in 2k then export at 8k out of painter. Looks really high res. Best of speed and quality for hard surface. Cant be beat in Painter.
Great video guys, as always! How would you stack 3DCoat against Mari and Substance in terms of painting? To me it seems like a golden middleground between the two. More in-depth than Substance and more easy to get around than Mari. What's your take on that? Thank you.
I must be the only one who still uses Maxon’s Bodypaint3D. Many years ago, it was the only real game in town that offered both 2D and 3D projection painting for 3D models in a single package. It was used heavily in VFX. Even today, I still use the technique of taking a 2D snapshot of the model from Bodypaint, importing it into Photoshop where I can leverage its superior raster and vector tools, import the result back into Bodypaint 3D and then project the image directly onto the 3D model. At that point, it was a matter of using the blur and clone stamp tools to fix seams. It is a clunky workflow by today’s standards, but it works. The nice thing about Bodypaint 3D is that it is layered based and could therefore import and export PSD files natively with full support for Photoshop’s adjustment layers and layer masks. These could be combined with material shader effects. You could even copy merge from Photoshop and paste directly into Bodypaint. Really good for rapid prototyping. It also featured multi-channel painting; the first program to do this. Sadly, Maxon’s neglect of the Bodypaint module over time relegated it from what was once a leader in its field to being an all but abandoned feature of Cinema4D.
Bodypaint was such a good tool, I (H) used it a lot back in the days. If they had kept it updated, it would've been the strongest texture painting solution out there today!
And to avoid seams you need to use Projection painting. Body Paint has the best of both worlds. In recent versions, they have done a lot for Body Paint. The core of the viewport rendering on OpenGL has been rewritten. Now I can draw reflections on the model and see them, and also displacement now works in real time. I think there is a lot of work to add Ptex and UDIM, you need to rewrite the unwrap tools. After a few releases, Body Paint will be as strong as before.
I have managed to avoid seems with UDIMS in Painter by using triplanar projection. That's with hard surface structures and buildings. The ability to paint on multiple UDIMS at once in Painter would be awesome though.
i was kinda confused because there is actually UDIM support on Substance Painter, but then i understood that the thing thats not supported is cross UDIM painting.... which yeah, i think that a very basic feature that's missing; and i think a lot of people are asking for it... i hope they integrate that soon, even tho i dont texture that much and i think i prefer the substance designer approach..
Is it necessary to master Mari for movie and animation industry like Blur studio Method studio....?it seems substance rarely use in film and high quality CGI animation.
I suppose they didn't mentioned quixel since it's more like half of painter advantages (procedural smart materials) + a lot of mari disadvantages. Like cluncky interface, the need to constanlty rebake stuff etc.
Flipped Formals will have to do another review of this when the new features of Mari come out :) ! - Mari will have accurate shader representations soon as well as a material workflow similar to substance. you will even be able to bring in substance materials into Mari.
One of the things that most people complain about substance painter is the poor implementation from substance designer to painter, this was a while ago can anyone confirm if has gotten better the transition between the two software ?
@@izvarzone the fact that you couldn't drag and drop material instances from designer to substance you had to publish the whole thing If I remember correctly I havent done it in a while, so that might have changed.
@@elfideorubio1308 It hasn't changed, but i also think that it isn't a problem. Publishing a Designer material is the same as saving it on disk. You can drag it in from your explorer. What more do you need?
I love painter Bcoz it's features are very easy to use compare to Mari. Mari is very complex to understand. I think anyone can familiar with painter in hours.
Do a comparison between *Blender Node Based Painting* and Substance Painter, I recently had a long argument with someone because Blender is free and can have similar results after baking the nodes.
It doesn't compare because in Blender you have to do everything manually (more like in Mari) and there are no smart materials, there is no way to paint on several channels at the same time, the brushes are kinda bad, it is slow to paint, no support for UDIM's...etc. You can get good results (with a lot of work) but overall Blender is at the bottom of all texture programs. 3Dcoat, Quixel, Substance Painter, Mari give better results and much faster. It really is no competition because Blenders texturing ability is really, really basic without any advanced features.
@@izvarzone the workflow being discussed is using the node based material editor similar to the way you build a substance in substance designer. You can then use the 3d paint to paint masks that fit into the node tree, the result is sort of a hybrid between designer and painter in terms of workflow. I quite like it as an approach, and its probably where I will go eventually if the substance tools go subscription only or break support for my platform. Blender does however currently lack nodes compared to designer.
What if I'm working on a mobile game and I want characters to look extremely realistic in the character select screen (you can turn them around, zoom in and out, customize, etc)... how much detail can I realistically squeeze in each character (200+ characters). Is something like mari overkill or is it worth putting that much detail in each character?
UDIM and 8k export with non destructive workflow work on Substance Painter so it's not an issue anymore, plus the SBSAR file from substance designer work on any game engine like Unreal or Unity 3D and also on MODO and other 3D rendering engine like Arnold or Clarisse. you forgot to mention 3D coat those one is also a realy good tool for sculpting painting PBR and rotopologize, UV unwrapping.
i heard all the Substance apps were originally meant for VFX but they drifted to lower ez work like gaming somehow. i personally would love a tool that would allow you to augment scanned textures if i make sense. like basically letting you rebuild the scanned texture as a procedural so you can fill in gaps like i dunno an extra limb to a chartcer seamlessly since you can "add" missing texture. like i dunno new Transformers movie comes out and has a charatcer based on an iconic car with unique paint detail or rust or soemthing and being a transforming robot for sure you gotta add extra parts to make it robotic. but instead of reusing the textures sourced from the car over and over again you build a dynamic procedural that replicates the featues of the original car texture so you can make new elements look like they belong. like say an arm comes out of the car door that uses said door as a shulder pad but has a forarm shell that's the same color as the door instead of reusing the door's textures and have the wear and tear of a plane show up on a cylander you have the wear and tear a cylander would have if made from the same material. bet it would be ideal for mutants and monsters as you could theoretically augment the properties of the source texture to mimic the properties of another like i dunno make your Killer Croc m character look like someone with a skin condition that kinda looks reptillian like have callused skin resemble scales in shape.
Really cool stuff! I personally use Substance Painter on a daily basis. And the reason is that it is so easy to use. What can I say, I'm a lazy artist ;D
I'm confused. I work in Painter, and it supports UDIMs. Did it not do so in January 2019? So for machinima, I should be migrating to Mari from Painter? I may render the film in Unity though... I'm uncertain if I can keep my island of misfit bitcoin miners going even with my solar panels in the summer... electric bills, I fear...if I use Redshift in C4D...
You dont have to be very good at modeling, as long as youre solid at texturing. Knowing the basics is great, as you will have to modify the model at points.
Sure you can. Also creating nice tile-able materials in Substance Designer and use them in Mari seems to be very effective. It would be really awesome if Mari would load the procedural Substance files itself.
i think substance, with both painter and designer beats mari out of convenience it only loses if you need udim support but i think we can see later how that turns out now excuse me while i try to untangle my node tree in blender material(can't afford both)
Now i really feel bad for using the Machinery smart material that much in my project. In my defense: i never use the vanilla version, i always create custom masks for the dirt and dust and often change sub-channels of it completely.
I wish i could run substance painter, althrough my computer exceeds the minimum system requirements to run the software, it crashes as soon as i open it. :/ Any suggestions?
Cool that‘s a helpful Vid, Thanks Guys. Can you Guys make an Video Maya vs. Blender? People say Maya is a must have in the Business, but is Maya so much Powerful than Blender? Since the new Design of Blender 2.80 i‘m thinking to switch from Cinema to Blender.
FlippedNormals : Haha Yess Please! I know there are many other Videos about Blender vs Maya. But you Guys are Pros and you are telling from diffrent views. Many Videos about this theme are more like a Fanvideo but you Guys telling both sides..pros and cons...what makes it very useful for me/us. 👍❤️
would it be possible for you to slow down when giving your names as I still after watching the videos for 2 months have no idea what the first name is :)
Now Substance Painter is fully support UDIMs. Substance is really working for many purpose. I feel like Mari start to be old-fashioned. Only node graph and huge asset make it interesting in big productions.
these are the specs on my computer right now, HP 110-210 Desktop, AMD A4-5000 1.50 GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, Windows 8, i cant afford a new graphics card anyways. Any suggestions to an alternate program?
oh and speaking of texturez.xyz i would love to try this workflow if i had the tools but i wanna see if you can apply texture sets like that using ZWrap. like from what i seen those textures were "skinned" from an orignal 3d source just splayed out in 2D so in theory you can rewrap the same texture back in 3d again. like you go into a poly modeler and say model a flat forehead plane for a forehead texture. you then go into zbrush with Zwrap and do the usual match and wrap so the flat forhead plane conforms to an actual 3d forehead with every element matced 1:1, then you load in the orignal 4head texture and since the orignal flat plane is treated as its UV it wraps all that forehead detail onto the new head and project. you can basically rebuild an orignal source and then add on top of it in say mari or Zbrush. i could even see it as a way to get a more natural looking texture by sourcing from somethign with a source. like want to make your actor look like they were greek sculpture? you just take a generic head and wrap it on a scanned sculpture then take the same head and wrap it on the actor and simply apply the sulpture's captured textures onto the actor's morph keeping the shapes and proportions of the actor but the details and textures of the sculpture. i could even see it in digital aging where you scan the young actor and an old wrincly source and get those wrincles as say a vector displacement map you can then apply to the young actor's morph.
Pfffff who needs Mari or Painter, Microsoft Paint Master Race
Before use real paper, it's true.🙃
@@bao007fei print off the uv's on a piece of paper then scan it back in isn't actually a bad idea you will have a very unique texture style, of course it would need to have very little seems and correctly numbered and re touched up afterwards that would quadruple the time but other than that good idea for a 100k sub special.
It's pretty ironic now that Microsoft Paint 3D has actual projection painting. But it's, you know, it's shit, even for toddlers.
i use mario paint
3d paint Lets go!
For those unaware (I only learned of this a couple days ago) the Foundry actually has Mari: Non-Commercial, which is free. It has some limitations like only 6 UDIM, and obv you can't make money with it, but it seems great for personal projects.
Mari Non Commercial is great!
Oh thank you
good tnaks for the comment
cant use at school not compatible with paying version foundry's educational program is messed up with substance in less then 30 minutes i can start the educational program no strings attached or complex registration, only the student id card is necessary
True artist texture in photoshop using screenshot of UV layout!
Haha, old days of texturing :D
@ some studios still use that technique... Ive been in those
@Sasori Tobi amen.
that was sick man. missing it
yeh in stone age :)
A guy from the future! Painter now supports painting across udims
NO, it still doesn't.
james jason did you got the beta? Because I did and pretty much it does.
Étienne Leroux of course is going to happen. Did you saw the video?
@@DREEDX no. I watched it though.
The future looks good. But then again we can paint that way.
substance does support multiple UDIMs also you are able to use the 8k setting which works well atm
Great job, guys. Good representation of both software. I personally prefer Substance Painter, but I've also found myself enjoying texture painting in 3d Coat, because it's so easy and can use almost all the compatible Photoshop brushes, etc. I know 3d Coat isn't a big industry standard like the other two, but believe me, it's surprisingly powerful for texture creation. Zbrush is very good for diffuse and displacement work, but 3dCoat is PBR based like Painter is.
Started off learning painter but fell in love with Mari. Organizing your project per channel makes my life way more easier than working per texture set. In Mari i can just create multiple folders and mask the uv for each "material" then work on everything at the same time without having to switch and figure out what texture set is '1023' or '1011'. And the export manager in substance needs ALOT of work. Currently you cant even separate your channels into different file types for exporting.
My thoughts too. I started with painter, but I just can't use it anymore after learning Mari. Painter is just too inflexible when it comes down to it.
Perhaps you should give Substance another try now they have painting across texture set feature. You can now just make a layer per channel you want to work on and have it apply to all texture sets the same, all at once.
Well....they're attacking the same problem just from the Mari side it's about using the old method of pushing large unchangeable static textures through a pipeline where Substance painter is procedural and generates/computes/streams completely changeable textures through a pipeline. Quixel Mixer should also be in this conversation.
quixel mixer is so far behind
@@keltart809 and not so long ago DDO was prevalent over Substance
Kel T pretty inaccurate...Quixel is far ahead in terms of texture creation for environment texturing and is pretty indispensable in the industry because of how quickly it will allow you to construct an exterior environment with gel, texture and LODs all ready to go. Right now Quixel and Substance Painter are specialized for different parts of the process but the could likely end up on a collision course again and it's not like it's a definite the Substance would win just because of it's weaknesses now.
@@Imhotep397 quixels strength comes from its library of scans and textures. Allegorithimic alchemy is gonna make quixel mixer obsolete
Kel T Probably not...what's more likely is that they'll be exceptional companion apps. Substance would need to figure out how to accurately project, procedurally across multiple UV shells like a UDIM patch work or if PTex ever makes a come back(which would work better for a procedural texturing workflow)...but I don't think a multi-patch situation, outside of something Ptex like, will ever be efficient for a procedural texturing workflow.
Mari for baking AO, Curvature and projecting, ZBrush for Base Color and exporting Displacement and Normal maps, the rest in Substance. Would be great to have tools that eased that pipeline.
For quite some time now Substance Painter has been able to work with UDIMs as texture sets up to 8K on export, but you are stating Substance Painter can only do 1 UV map at 1K which is incorrect. You can setup as many UDIMs as you want in Maya then import them in Substance painter. Not being able to paint across texture sets is an non issue, I find especially with a procedural paint based workflow. This seems to be your major premise why Mari is better than Sustance for which you're presenting misinformation. I was wondering how Mari compares to SSS, which Substance can also do now, but this isn't covered.
Always the best videos! As a student you guys are my life support! Will be buying some prem tutorials soon for character uv and reto!
Time to update that video ?
Mari VS Substance Painter - What's the Best Texturing Tool?
Me : the free one
so... both?
@@igromad To the best of my knowledge, neither one is free unless you're talking about a student license. But Painter is significantly cheaper at $20 a month.
Love your videos guys! I like to just listen while i'm sculpting or texturing, keep it up!
Well almost a year later Painter has UDiMs support and has been used in a couple major films, so I guess we have a winner now :D
True!
Thanks Guys for this! I Ever hear you, inclusive when working, is really amazing your channel and fun
and then Adobe bought Algorithmic .... "as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened"
The result years later is there, too sad
Most of the time for me, I like certain software based on how elegant the UI, and how well the software designed its user interactivity with the tools that I used.
Mari fan boi here, but Mari needs a better hashtag on twitter... honestly.
Substance Painter is a really good software too. but since the UI / features changes really often, tutorials can be outdated really quick... maybe hard for some instructors :)
Mari also had a complete UI overhaul from some versions.
PLEASE make a 2021 version of this video. Substance Painter has come a long way since then. I'd love to hear your opinions on the two now.
Well done! :) I started in Mari at 1.4.6. in 2012. Before layers. 2.0 finally brought in layers. After working in production with Body Paint for several years, Mari was awesome. I do like Substance. Learning it. UDIMs are accepted. Yet not like Mari as of yet. Funny how now, Mari has a material library, Mmmm. Competition? Like any tool, it depends on the demand of job and output. Thanks you guys for really awesome tutorials and comments. Cheers. -b
I'm still new to substance but would love to get into more texture apps love the video guys!!
Awesome! More texturing coming from us! :D
FlippedNormals awesome guys! Also if either of you fancied coming on the show we would be honored to have you
I love using substance painter. Where I live where 90% of the studios are commercials and deadlines happen faster, having a program that you can drop anything you want and show a result is fantastic! For personal projects is great since most of artist project aren't 32K resolution masterpieces instead of a nice 4K or 8K map. Overall I love substance and even after using Mari for years not sure if I can ever go back, specially if most studios are making the transition from Mari to Substance.
I feel like a big difference (added to the rest of the differences listed already) is the node system. I have been using Nuke for about 8 years now and Mari becomes really easy to understand and use if you use the node graph. it is basically like using Nuke and all this linking layers and stacking layers into layers is so visual, easy to understand and organised.
I understand some people are not familiar with comp software but if you are, this is a huge difference and advantage too. And even though Substance also has a node system, the foundry pretty much maintains the same structure and way to do it.
Maaan the thumbnail though😂😂crazy!!😆
7:49 - "when you're projecting a lot of issues" Yeah, sounds exactly like me texturing in mari hahah
one year later is Mari catching up somehow on the advantages Painter has?
The brush following the surface is to me the best feature Mari needs
You can use multiple UDIM in Painter, you just can't paint across the seams. So its fine for separated pieces.
That's what the biggest issue.
that moment you realised you didnt baked your mesh while dragging and droping a smaterial... but the real deal will be when the sdesigner vector oriented workflow, for material creation, gets aplied to vertex painting in game engines. just getting the same rule follow stuff, curvature, normal, occlusion, light here, absence of light there etc, but working on vertex paint mode. no worry about resolution anymo. it just follows rules, but tilled.
Well done guys. this was a nice explanation.
Thank you!
Hi! You should also have a look at node-based workflow in mari. For example you can create a single paint node and with that drive many channels without problem :) Also gizmos are super nice (they are like smart materials), Cool video guys! Keep it up.
Nice video guys, was curious to listen to what you think. Glad you left it open in terms of winner, wise haha. I have started with Mari as well (painter at the time was supper slow) and loved Mari and all its tools. But then Painter years later got so much better that I just couldn't ignore it. Mind you we did a train asset (hardsurface hehe) on Peter Rabbit at Cutting edge in Painter - was nearly 40 udims I think and yes no udim support in the sense you can't paint across but because it was hardsurface as you know all worked out nicely we were really happy with the result. But Painter lacks some simple tools that are in Mari which makes it sometimes super frustrating to work with like projection lattice :) - you mentioned that one and ofcourse full UDIM support but Substance creators know about it. If it was so simple to implement it they would have done it ages ago but I am certain it is coming and then Mari for me would be very questionable. Price alone makes Mari super unattractive, their maitenantce fee is higher than the whole Painter Software itself. Sorry for a long post haha. Good stuff. But for people who are starting out my suggestion would be the same get to know both it really depends on a studio you are working these days and if you are contractor you will be bouncing around so helps to know both of them at least on a basic level and then you will pick up more.
Hey Serge! Totally agree - it's a good idea to learn both. They are both great and good for different use cases :) It will also make you a lot more employable.
Having had to use mari in college, after teaching myself painter over the summer, I'm definitely a painter fangirl
Painter is amazing! Its one of our favorite tools.
To sum up Mari is good for film and Vfx, and Substance for games, I think you were being a bit harsh to Sp with regards to texture resolution it supports upto 8k baking and and supports udims and it will probably get better with each update
How about 3D-Coat?
3d-Coat is looking better than ever, especially now that Substance Painter has been Borg'd by Adobe..!
You also forgot to mention that Mari has a great built in node system, which greatly extends artists possibility.
I like windows 98 aesthetic of mari. Wish painter had that skin.
I use Mario Paint but how do I export?
Wow, you're posting answers which i've just googled for. I'm elso intrigued by different purposes of UV(for rigging, vfx, texturing) you mentioned few times at begginers uv related videos.
I can't wait for the in depth Substance tutorial!
Haha 10/10 for thumbnail :D
Now, the other thing is that I've see Magdalena Dedala do some pretty detailed humanoid character textures and if you could recalculate it up to 8k or so up close I would imagine it would hold up well. I think it's more the issue that Substance isn't fully integrated into enough renderers so that you would never have to actually bake/lock the texture resolutions.
Thanks for the video.
really useful and helped me choosing my texturing software.
Thanks
Really happy to help!
and even if Painter adds same surface Udim support, it still wont have the warp tool before projection that Mari has. I use painter 90% of the time, but in that aspect it definitely lagging behind. Same surface Udim organics. That's why I have to use Mari for projection and painting masks. Painter still always wins with hard surface though for sure. Especially now that I can texture hard surface procedurally in 2k then export at 8k out of painter. Looks really high res. Best of speed and quality for hard surface. Cant be beat in Painter.
Absolutely! This is a good analysis.
I would love to watch more videos from you about composition, shading and texturing.
We are going to make videos on all of that, so youre in luck!
what is the best for food texturing ?
Great video guys, as always! How would you stack 3DCoat against Mari and Substance in terms of painting? To me it seems like a golden middleground between the two. More in-depth than Substance and more easy to get around than Mari. What's your take on that? Thank you.
and what about other painting software like quixel, marmoset, etc?.. or are these the best way to paint textures?
Painter and Mari are really the kings of texturing today.
oh ok
Hello,
If I have the texture of the human face but it is illegal how can I adjust it so that it becomes like something different or new?
I must be the only one who still uses Maxon’s Bodypaint3D.
Many years ago, it was the only real game in town that offered both 2D and 3D projection painting for 3D models in a single package. It was used heavily in VFX.
Even today,
I still use the technique of taking a 2D snapshot of the model from Bodypaint, importing it into Photoshop where I can leverage its superior raster and vector tools, import the result back into Bodypaint 3D and then project the image directly onto the 3D model. At that point, it was a matter of using the blur and clone stamp tools to fix seams. It is a clunky workflow by today’s standards, but it works.
The nice thing about Bodypaint 3D is that it is layered based and could therefore import and export PSD files natively with full support for Photoshop’s adjustment layers and layer masks. These could be combined with material shader effects. You could even copy merge from Photoshop and paste directly into Bodypaint. Really good for rapid prototyping. It also featured multi-channel painting; the first program to do this.
Sadly, Maxon’s neglect of the Bodypaint module over time relegated it from what was once a leader in its field to being an all but abandoned feature of Cinema4D.
Bodypaint was such a good tool, I (H) used it a lot back in the days. If they had kept it updated, it would've been the strongest texture painting solution out there today!
And to avoid seams you need to use Projection painting. Body Paint has the best of both worlds.
In recent versions, they have done a lot for Body Paint. The core of the viewport rendering on OpenGL has been rewritten. Now I can draw reflections on the model and see them, and also displacement now works in real time. I think there is a lot of work to add Ptex and UDIM, you need to rewrite the unwrap tools. After a few releases, Body Paint will be as strong as before.
I have managed to avoid seems with UDIMS in Painter by using triplanar projection. That's with hard surface structures and buildings. The ability to paint on multiple UDIMS at once in Painter would be awesome though.
Sounds like you REALLY want Painter to have the power of Mari because somewhere you like Painter a bit more 😉
i was kinda confused because there is actually UDIM support on Substance Painter, but then i understood that the thing thats not supported is cross UDIM painting.... which yeah, i think that a very basic feature that's missing; and i think a lot of people are asking for it... i hope they integrate that soon, even tho i dont texture that much and i think i prefer the substance designer approach..
Is it necessary to master Mari for movie and animation industry like Blur studio Method studio....?it seems substance rarely use in film and high quality CGI animation.
@FlippedNormals can you use texturing XYZ materials in substance painter???
I wonder what you guys think about adobe acquiring allegorithmic
What do feature animation studios use? I read some people on polycount suggest that Disney and Pixar use Mari with Ptex painting.
a good course to learn designer?
theres a substance plugin now for maya
I think it's for Designer though.
Thank you for this video :) !
and 3D coat?
Its best for hand painted textures. Its definitely the most enjoyable painting application to date, just its extremely rough around the edges.
I suppose they didn't mentioned quixel since it's more like half of painter advantages (procedural smart materials) + a lot of mari disadvantages. Like cluncky interface, the need to constanlty rebake stuff etc.
Thats basically it yes
Flipped Formals will have to do another review of this when the new features of Mari come out :) ! - Mari will have accurate shader representations soon as well as a material workflow similar to substance. you will even be able to bring in substance materials into Mari.
Definitely! We're really excited to see Mari bringing the heat.
One of the things that most people complain about substance painter is the poor implementation from substance designer to painter, this was a while ago can anyone confirm if has gotten better the transition between the two software ?
what was poorly implemented?
@@izvarzone the fact that you couldn't drag and drop material instances from designer to substance you had to publish the whole thing If I remember correctly I havent done it in a while, so that might have changed.
@@elfideorubio1308 It hasn't changed, but i also think that it isn't a problem. Publishing a Designer material is the same as saving it on disk. You can drag it in from your explorer. What more do you need?
@@RyoMassaki drag&drop ;)
Awesome discussion guy~s!
I love painter Bcoz it's features are very easy to use compare to Mari. Mari is very complex to understand. I think anyone can familiar with painter in hours.
Do a comparison between *Blender Node Based Painting* and Substance Painter, I recently had a long argument with someone because Blender is free and can have similar results after baking the nodes.
Advantage of painter it can use substance materials, but blender i think have potentially better particle brush.
It doesn't compare because in Blender you have to do everything manually (more like in Mari) and there are no smart materials, there is no way to paint on several channels at the same time, the brushes are kinda bad, it is slow to paint, no support for UDIM's...etc.
You can get good results (with a lot of work) but overall Blender is at the bottom of all texture programs. 3Dcoat, Quixel, Substance Painter, Mari give better results and much faster.
It really is no competition because Blenders texturing ability is really, really basic without any advanced features.
@@izvarzone the workflow being discussed is using the node based material editor similar to the way you build a substance in substance designer. You can then use the 3d paint to paint masks that fit into the node tree, the result is sort of a hybrid between designer and painter in terms of workflow.
I quite like it as an approach, and its probably where I will go eventually if the substance tools go subscription only or break support for my platform. Blender does however currently lack nodes compared to designer.
What if I'm working on a mobile game and I want characters to look extremely realistic in the character select screen (you can turn them around, zoom in and out, customize, etc)... how much detail can I realistically squeeze in each character (200+ characters). Is something like mari overkill or is it worth putting that much detail in each character?
How much Mari commercial version?
UDIM and 8k export with non destructive workflow work on Substance Painter so it's not an issue anymore, plus the SBSAR file from substance designer work on any game engine like Unreal or Unity 3D and also on MODO and other 3D rendering engine like Arnold or Clarisse. you forgot to mention 3D coat those one is also a realy good tool for sculpting painting PBR and rotopologize, UV unwrapping.
Well - you still cant paint across the UDIMs, so we cant with good faith say that it has proper UDIM support. The use case is still limited.
i heard all the Substance apps were originally meant for VFX but they drifted to lower ez work like gaming somehow. i personally would love a tool that would allow you to augment scanned textures if i make sense. like basically letting you rebuild the scanned texture as a procedural so you can fill in gaps like i dunno an extra limb to a chartcer seamlessly since you can "add" missing texture. like i dunno new Transformers movie comes out and has a charatcer based on an iconic car with unique paint detail or rust or soemthing and being a transforming robot for sure you gotta add extra parts to make it robotic. but instead of reusing the textures sourced from the car over and over again you build a dynamic procedural that replicates the featues of the original car texture so you can make new elements look like they belong. like say an arm comes out of the car door that uses said door as a shulder pad but has a forarm shell that's the same color as the door instead of reusing the door's textures and have the wear and tear of a plane show up on a cylander you have the wear and tear a cylander would have if made from the same material. bet it would be ideal for mutants and monsters as you could theoretically augment the properties of the source texture to mimic the properties of another like i dunno make your Killer Croc m character look like someone with a skin condition that kinda looks reptillian like have callused skin resemble scales in shape.
This is an awesome video... what has kept me away from Mari is the hardware requirements... otherwise it's awesome
Well Substance has just gone down the drain with Adobe acquiring Allegorithmic
OMG WHAT
Really cool stuff! I personally use Substance Painter on a daily basis. And the reason is that it is so easy to use. What can I say, I'm a lazy artist ;D
If you're a texture artist, you should really try to be as lazy as you can! That was my motto while doing texturing, and it always paid off :D
/H
I'm confused. I work in Painter, and it supports UDIMs. Did it not do so in January 2019? So for machinima, I should be migrating to Mari from Painter? I may render the film in Unity though... I'm uncertain if I can keep my island of misfit bitcoin miners going even with my solar panels in the summer... electric bills, I fear...if I use Redshift in C4D...
I was sculpting and modelling exclusively for ages and kind of forgot how to texture...
How much of a modeler must I be to be a texturing artist? I'm good with UV'ing and all but I don't like much of the modeling aspect...
You dont have to be very good at modeling, as long as youre solid at texturing. Knowing the basics is great, as you will have to modify the model at points.
@@FlippedNormals Thanks for the confidence booster! I'm fine with prop modeling, its the organic stuff that worries me.
can i use painter for the base and then makes details in mari?
Sure you can. Also creating nice tile-able materials in Substance Designer and use them in Mari seems to be very effective. It would be really awesome if Mari would load the procedural Substance files itself.
@@RyoMassaki ok thanks!
Question: Does texturing work require a lot of VRAM?
very much if you use textures higher than 2k , also my 6gb card not enogh for 8k textures and start lagging hard
I am curious about, when you bring out a Blender 2.8 Introduction :)
Sorry...Flender :-)
i think substance, with both painter and designer beats mari out of convenience
it only loses if you need udim support but i think we can see later how that turns out
now excuse me while i try to untangle my node tree in blender material(can't afford both)
Now i really feel bad for using the Machinery smart material that much in my project. In my defense: i never use the vanilla version, i always create custom masks for the dirt and dust and often change sub-channels of it completely.
Nothing wrong with using smart materials as a base! Just dont rely on them, as it will look like it's made from smart materials.
I wish i could run substance painter, althrough my computer exceeds the minimum system requirements to run the software, it crashes as soon as i open it. :/ Any suggestions?
update your graphics driver , that issue happens to me sometimes when the graphics driver is outdated
or install painter 2.2, that still is working great.and with major updates
Cool that‘s a helpful Vid, Thanks Guys. Can you Guys make an Video Maya vs. Blender? People say Maya is a must have in the Business, but is Maya so much Powerful than Blender? Since the new Design of Blender 2.80 i‘m thinking to switch from Cinema to Blender.
Maya VS Blender ey? Do you want us to start the biggest flame-war in the history of CG? :D
FlippedNormals : Haha Yess Please! I know there are many other Videos about Blender vs Maya. But you Guys are Pros and you are telling from diffrent views. Many Videos about this theme are more like a Fanvideo but you Guys telling both sides..pros and cons...what makes it very useful for me/us. 👍❤️
what if the character is hardsurface and for cinematic purposes
But yeah, UDIMs are coming to Painter, possibly even this year.
Watch out, Mari!
Well - they've said this for some time now. When they eventually get them, Mari might be in trouble!
I can answer this. Painter is the best. Its the new revolution in the industry. But mari handles super high res textures best. Thats all.
would it be possible for you to slow down when giving your names as I still after watching the videos for 2 months have no idea what the first name is :)
Henning
Hey, my substance painter is not working on my laptop. Please help me.
Op - win 7
Graphics - 2gb
operating system is issue
I am a texturing artist. substanse is best
Now Substance Painter is fully support UDIMs. Substance is really working for many purpose. I feel like Mari start to be old-fashioned. Only node graph and huge asset make it interesting in big productions.
subtance painter crashes with my 8gb of memory :( should i use mari, blender or another texture program?
Are you sure its the lack of memory and not the graphics card? Mari is unfortunately far heavier than Painter.
these are the specs on my computer right now,
HP 110-210 Desktop, AMD A4-5000 1.50 GHz, 8GB RAM, 1TB HDD, Windows 8,
i cant afford a new graphics card anyways.
Any suggestions to an alternate program?
@@mylesxavier4196 You need new computer ( AMD 3700x(CPU) , 5700xt(VGA 8GB video ram) and 16 or 32GB ram)
Thats like Batman V Superman
more like batman vs robin..
Tell me... Do you bleed?.... You will! lol :P th-cam.com/video/1KcZvT-k0ng/w-d-xo.html
no i wont..superman could crushed batman like an ant... stupid writers...
Where is 3D coat!!!???
oh and speaking of texturez.xyz i would love to try this workflow if i had the tools but i wanna see if you can apply texture sets like that using ZWrap. like from what i seen those textures were "skinned" from an orignal 3d source just splayed out in 2D so in theory you can rewrap the same texture back in 3d again. like you go into a poly modeler and say model a flat forehead plane for a forehead texture. you then go into zbrush with Zwrap and do the usual match and wrap so the flat forhead plane conforms to an actual 3d forehead with every element matced 1:1, then you load in the orignal 4head texture and since the orignal flat plane is treated as its UV it wraps all that forehead detail onto the new head and project. you can basically rebuild an orignal source and then add on top of it in say mari or Zbrush. i could even see it as a way to get a more natural looking texture by sourcing from somethign with a source. like want to make your actor look like they were greek sculpture? you just take a generic head and wrap it on a scanned sculpture then take the same head and wrap it on the actor and simply apply the sulpture's captured textures onto the actor's morph keeping the shapes and proportions of the actor but the details and textures of the sculpture. i could even see it in digital aging where you scan the young actor and an old wrincly source and get those wrincles as say a vector displacement map you can then apply to the young actor's morph.
So funny thumbnail 😂😂😂
yes zbrush is great at some hand painting aspect but i dislike the layers in zbrush
Layers in ZB is hot garbage
3D Coat best
For vfx work i prefer mari and for gaming i'll use painter .
Microsoft painter ;)
@Mariano so i can't use painter in human face to get a very high cool result
Where's Quixel Suite??