Looking for Worldwizard? Hop over to this Kickstarter page and there's a Discord link in the update here. Join that Discord, find the #worldwizard channel, and you can get the playtest PDF! www.kickstarter.com/projects/1735046512/the-perilous-void/posts/4217707
I visited the kickstarter page to look for the world wizard PDF and there is no sign of it. Can you share a direct link to download that PDF please? And I looked at the #worlld wizard channel and there is zero content to view.
Yeah, that's definitely part of it! But I just think there's a general hunger, people just wanna say "the community" about all sorts of stuff. There's a longing! But you're so right, "demographic," haha, what a way to put it.
It's kind of disturbing because how do you explain to people that community is an essential human need when people think that word means "people who happen to share a trait but have never met"
@@peregrinecovington4138I mean, social contact and belonging is the human need. A community is more of a vague bundle of social interactions and discussion created by something that unites those people But yeah, online communities are veryyy distant, and i guess exist primarily for selling stuff a lot of the time But yeah, you’re right. It’s weird how people often don’t realize how much starved we are of genuine socializing, myself included.
I much prefer being a consumer of RPGs than a member of an imagined community. Additional to the reasons above, community further implies shared values and I am, when gaming, not interested in the values of thousands of strangers, the majority in another country than mine.
I have a very different but maybe helpful perspective on the state of RPGs. For context I’m a teenager, and one of the only ones who actively plays non-5E games like Mörk Borg and the like. Every single one of my peers who wants to learn “D&D” wants to play a game like D&D as they’ve seen it in media, and don’t really care about the rules. In fact, they don’t really understand the 5E rules at all, they just want to play a game. I think it’ll get easier to onboard people into other systems when they realize that every game except 5E and maybe some other older ones takes at most 10 minutes to learn, and allows the same kind of freedom a bigger game does.
> Every single one of my peers who wants to learn “D&D” wants to play a game like D&D as they’ve seen it in media, and don’t really care about the rules. YES! This is so important, most traditional kinds of D&D are NOTHING LIKE what people get pitched on. They think they're getting a cool game of storytelling and imagination and then they're like "wtf is an 'action economy.'" There's a reason that Dungeon World marketed itself in its small online community (ha) as "the game you thought D&D was going to be before you played it." I'm glad you're running all sorts of stuff for your friends! What do they like best? And what do you like running best? I remember being a teenage DM, it was a really life-giving experience, I'm really proud of you.
@ Scheduling, even at the age where we mostly don’t have jobs, is hard so we haven’t done much this year. But I have been running some of the Mörk Borg games and while they haven’t exactly been hooked on the OSR playstyle yet they’re getting there. Our collective favorite so far has been Pirate Borg. It’s the kind of setting that just clicks really well at the table and the module in the core book is amazing.
This is so freaking true! 5E never clicked with me as a DM, and a couple other players. I experimented with Cyberpunk 2020 and immediately loved the role play more, just not the combat. Then tried out Castle and Crusades and it was pure bliss, finally fun combat, and one player wanted to play hours more 🥹
One reason I love ttrps is because they're not stories, they're rpgs. Things don't have to follow the hero's journey, you can die in stupid ways, and the villians can just straight up win. I'm all for setting up more info for creating more interesting story arcs, but I don't want to pull away from the game so much that it turns into collective story telling. The dice givith and the dice taketh away.
Haha, no. They're wargames, directly derived from _Braunstein._ No Get Along Gang. Multiple independent entities (solos, groups, factions, etc.) operating under a Fog of War. Strict timekeeping, resource management, and PVP is _always_ on the table because conflict over objectives is inevitable. _That_ is what the medium and hobby is; stories are something you write, solo, for publication _and thus this is a medium of Ludology not Narrative._ Peterson's works, _Secrets of Blackmoor,_ and more document this. All errors in the hobby start with that fundamental one. All errors are fixed by admitting the truth and changing behavior to conform to reality.
I am part of an RPG community that last year Discord played with 6 people and now we are +600. Here in Lima Peru most RPG communities around stores are not very big (like around 80). RPG is not a very common hobby here, but they usually partner with big (non store) clubs. I believe that non store communities here are going to play a major role in this part of the world, they will keep alive the community even at the fall of stores. Greetings from a sunny place, here we have sunmer during and holiday season, so having people dressed as Santa in summer is kinda funny for me.
Whoa, Lima Peru!! I'm so curious, what kinds of games and campaign do you guys play there? I'd love to know more about what strengths your community has and what challenges you face. Are you part of an IRL group currently?
The thing with the "Siloing" is more akin to the phenomenon of atomization. You get groups that split apart so much, that they aren't able to find replacements for leaving players and so on. For instance, I live like 30 miles from the next game store, and I'm not a huge "mainstream" game fan, so my only chance of ever playing "Burning Wheel" for example are basically 0 if I don't run it myself. Especially since I'm from a country where English is not the mother tongue. And that's the reason why D&D 5E will never fall, you either GM something like it or other big systems like Cthulhu, or else you're SOL and never find players or GMs. Hell, the bigger part of this hobby can't even get groups together consistently, while others are completely shut off from other tables because they have their core group which doesn't have the need to reach out to strangers.
God, so many of the problems with D&D 5e as a game are addressed by its secret weapon of "There a just a shitload of people who play it all the time and are willing to hang out and play it with you."
@Jack-gs6sd I do think a lot of these people are starting to muddle with the game more, inject their own stuff and fix their gripes with it. I've seen so many people recently say something to the effect of "DnD is owned by nobody, Wizards might write the books but the game is whatever we play at our table." I think this will only become more common as local communities form--people need to unite over a general system and 5e is kinda the default, but the veterans want to tweak it to fix the issues they have with it. A lot of other games that focus on communal world building etc might also become more common as things used in tandem with this, like you said. Just my two cents!
Time is a flat circle. This entire video was a forum thread on RPG Net over 30 years ago. Look at what happened since. WIthout some well-heeled and tightly-disciplined leaders doing some Out of Context (for most) moves, _nothing will change_ and this video will still be relevant 30 years from now (only we'll be talking about 10th Edition D&D and it will still be worthless slop but NO ONE beats it because NO ONE groks Network Effects). N.B.: Playing AD&D1e _exactly as-written_ compels the creation of a world communally, but most people aren't ready for _that_ conversation because that requires breaking out of their Get Along Gang paradigm.
You definitely play with a different caliber of players. I love world building, but i don't have that much time to hang with other people to play all the stuff your suggestions. That's why a fully structured game is just faster to set up and play.
The decline of 5th editions appeal to me does indeed include a hefty dose of rising contempt for Hasbro/WotC, with Magic the Gathering being their other game I've since stopped playing/purchasing for similar reasons at the start of 2024. That gave me the push to look at alternatives, realising Pathfinder, DC20 and other crunchy systems are the opposite direction for the kind of game I want to run, since 5e can get bogged down in rules lawyering at times enough already, particularly at higher levels. What I did get to try out and immedietly fall in love with was Daggerheart. Simple and compact enough as information to get people up and running quickly, vague enough in flavor to allow for things like a melee strength Ranger if you fancied without being a poorly performing meme. The issue that will arise from this though is getting folks in person to try this system. Right now, it was quick and easy to set up a group of 6 players (originally aimed for 5) to do a regular weekly evening of 5e. Based on the success rate I've seen locally for anything else, from old editions of D&D to Call of Cthulu, 5e is THE show in town.
Thanks for the insight! I'm definitely someone who bounced around this year. I'm in a regular 5e game, but I also played Shadowdark for awhile (which I loved), and now I'm getting ready to run my first PbtA game, Chasing Adventure. I've gone from playing exclusively online to playing in person for the first time again since pre-covid. And we're using procedures from The Perilous Wilds to create our campaign setting. So, really spot on observations. 2025 should prove to be interesting with games like Daggerheart and Draw Steel potentially pulling even more players out of the 5e pile.
For the last point I feel there will be an increase in investment into player narrative skill. That is resources for players to support narrative arcs, game themes, inter-party character development support, world enrichment, lore and NPC investment, etc and expectations from GMs for it. This is mainly from the siloing space made for narrative and acting interested players being able to work in ttrpgs with their skill base and exploring what more can be extended in the hobby. It won't be for every group but with all the actual plays online and the experimentation of niche games there are going to be more games I feel that demand a skill level of narrative shaping that is not entry level friendly, much like some game's mechanics have complexity that isn't new ttrpg player friendly. I'd put games like Alice is Missing and Dialect as possible different examples.
Having recently watched Quinn's Slugblaster video, I had the beat sheet system fresh in my mind. Yeah, it seems like very fertile ground for development. My thing, because my players still want to play 5e, has been to encourage/mandate them to create their own d20 random table based on vague concepts tied to character wish fulfillment. Ie, one player wants to do some clandestine wetwork, another wants to make discoveries based on a star chart, another wants to investigate the collapse of his blood hunter order, etc. When one result is ticked off, it's replaced by a new one. I call for when the d20 tables came into play and act as the middle man to convert them into arcs, but I'm also one of the DMs that read the screenwriting books, so I'm fairly comfortable with the task. Still, I like the Slugblaster approach. Metacurrencies aren't everyone's cup of tea, but giving player's agency is generally a positive thing, and having arcs to keep it structured is overall less work for the DM. Thanks for the video. I'mma have to check out your blog.
Not only do I agree with all of these, but I want my gaming group to BE all of these. What I’m thinking is of having a “game lab,” like a game night but more experimental, almost like a reading group. I want to bring together different gamers/hobbyists together and play through small story arcs and different systems, commenting on what we like and curating a stable of different games we use to get at what we want. I have relatively few of the games you show, but I also have plenty of games you don’t-that means that it would be great for gamers who have different games to get around a table and introduce mechanics, systems, zines, etc., without having to build a whole campaign up in each. We only have so many weeks a year, but I’d love to be able to experience more games and more systems and more, well, EVERYTHING of the ttrpg hobby. So that’s my goal for 2025-develop a homegrown game lab.
YES! This is a great idea. At my apartment, we're constantly running new things, trying one-shots, grabbing popular games and giving them a try, and then chatting like crazy about what we liked and didn't. Often when I run something, players will debrief and, if they're interested, I'll even take them behind-the-screen so to speak to see what things are like for prep and running. It takes a little hustle and planning, but it's ABSOLUTELY worth it, and I love that we're thinking the same way. As for advice on how to schedule something like that... well, I have a whole other video in the archives on that one :)
It's weird for me because, like you said, people play these games differently or expect different things from the games. Like, I've never fully understood the desire for games that 'create a story', because... that's not what I feel role playing games are. Thats more along the lines of 'story games' (not saying that as a derogative, more of a 'different emphasis in design and expectation'). Role playing is more about exploring a world, playing the role of a character in that world. As opposed to 'acting' as that character to fulfill the beats of an interpretive improvise story. Because the big thing for me is that, whenever I play or GM, the story is never something 'planned' or 'developed', but instead its something that always happens after the game. Because I treat the world as its real, not 'realistic', but real, with a logical set of rules and playing as interesting characters. And the players 'interact' with the world, the world interacts back, and there's player agency to where, not only are the players playing a role, but the GM is also playing the role 'of the world'. While I've created the world, I'm kind of following along as much as they are as I toss fun issues or problems at them to see how they answer them. When the players retell various situations that happened in the game, its like how "after Jeff failed the attack on Blood Slayer the Imp, everywhere he go's he'd ask for news on Blood Slayer, until finally he found him, and slew him in revenge. But afterwords he realized that he no longer had drive as revenge had fueled him, until saving another imp, a maiden, in which he fell in love with, realizing that he didn't need bloodlust to fill his heart." There was no 'planning' that my friend would have his character be obsessed with chasing down this random mini boss that got away and then being this weird revenge, despair, and romance arc. Though thats kind of the thing, different people expecting different things from games. And I really think we might end up having to 'segment' the TTRPG industry and actively attach labels to these games. Like "This is a TTRPG" and "This is a Story game" and "This is someone's world building notes disguised as a game" (I joke I joke).
Haha, yep, you and I are from different schools! I think you're right at the end there, we keep talking about "tabletop roleplaying games" as though it's all one thing. Our spaces are so full of theory and philosophizing and prevarication, and yet our terms are still SO BAD. I'm not a board gamer, but every day I get more and more like "I think... I think those people have higher standards of rigor, definition, and design literacy than we do..."
Agree'd. I might, as a GM have some intentions for cool stuff later on, but the actions of the players and the emergent scenarios are what create the story of the game.
@@Jack-gs6sd At the moment I mostly separate things based on 'rules interaction', like what part of the game does the rules 'actively' interact with more. TTRPGs as we classically know them are "Rules for the World", in which the rules *mostly* interact with the world as if they are laws of physics, x can only travel this far, a character can inflict x amount of damage due to their Y strength and Z weapon. While what I call StoryGames are "Rules for the Narrative", in which the rules actively manipulate the 'narrative' of the game. I spend a story point so that in the past I bribed this guard earlier, its not framed as a 'time manipulation' ability, but a literal 'narrative flashback'. My character succeeds in their 'dramatic action' stunt, so he swings on a chandelier that wasn't even mentioned by the GM because it would be applicable to the story, or even just appear cause the scene calls for it. My character got hurt by either a sword or a scathing comment, so now they are 'emotionally conflicted' and need to play that out in order to feel. This is the reason why there's never combat in 'Storygames', and instead treats it in the same way as any argument or stab wound, because combat in its essence as a game is entirely based on 'rules for the world' as we understand it. Our character moves 'here' to attack from 'this' angle to get advantage. While Storygames either have a bolted on entirely different ruleset for combat that bloats the game up, or just have it turn into 'status effect dodgeball'. Almost every single PBTA game (I count Blades in the Dark and its offshoots as PbtA) are StoryGames due to their high reliance on heavy meta narrative rules. On top of the fact that there's kind of a weird aspect of how, TTRPG's are made for a 'specific world' and Storygames are made for 'a specific story'. TTRPGs, you can have a fantasy world, but the players can have, a spooky mystery, a high flying adventure, a dismal tragedy, a comedy of errors. While in a Storygame, you can have it in a fantasy world or a sci fi world, but damn it the game will be kicking and screaming at you if you attempt to do anything other than some kind of 'cozy cafe management sim with interpersonal drama'. ((Though despite this, ironically Storygames tend to be restricting in setting as well as many story beats/tropes/steriotypes tend to also be genere specific and need a lot more work to translate between settings, thus the popularity of the 'Space Western' many years after the normal 'Western'. While TTRPGs tend to be easier to convert to different settings cause "every world has gravity")) I could go on, I could add things like 'subdivisions' of TTRPGs, you have the 'game' TTRPG, aka your more simplistic or abstracted systems, your "Simulation" TTRPG which is more about 'accuracy above all else". Your 'Stage play' Story Game that sets up a scene and has playbooks, and your "activity" Story Game where its more about 'reacting' to what the game gives you (example, Alice is Missing). Anyway, thank you for participating in my Ted Talk. ;p
This is an excellent video! I know in various design spaces that we've been talking about this stuff for the past year, so definitely accurate for where things are going into the hobby. I'm very excited to see games get more specific, but also provide more modular tools to apply to other systems. I think in this way even though play cultures may be more "siloed" off there is still connections between them to avoid stagnation of the hobby.
The stagnation question is good though -- does silo'ing mean stagnation? I'm not sure!! On the one hand, I'm inclined to agree. On the other, being in a space where we can better articulate preferences and differences... I don't know. Could help! Much to think about.
@@MartianDropkick haha I hear you but look, I think this might be true for the handful of trad games that are 30+ years old, but is this true for anyone making a new game today??
technically, you don't have to build a game for anyone and can still get ALL the money. while unique mechanics can be trademarked, game mechanics can't be copyrighted. Any rule set can be reproduced with any setting skinned over the top of it. You can technically skin any game, put your own setting over it, publish it and make money for that ruleset's market. Do this to enough niche ruleset playstyles and you'll have ALL the money without building a single game.
My group explicitly is made up of players of all those sorts of types, and I personally feel the reason we manage that so well is because we each are at some level a little of everything and one thing majorly. We're a well rounded party in that respect. We're also incredibly fortunate that everyone in our group has grown sick of 5E D&D and we haven't had a single game turned down since it was brought to the table. Since we formed the group in January of 2023, we've played 2 Dark Eye campaigns, Monster of the Week, Cthulhu, and Legend of the 5 Rings (4E specifically). Next up is a 3.5 campaign set in the world of the Warlord TCG, and after that is going to probably be more Monster of the Week, 3E L5R, and Symbaroum. I think you are correct about groups splitting apart based on interest, because we lost a lot of players along the way who couldn't get into the groove of anything but 5E D&D. I don't think my group is some sort of lightning in a bottle sort of gathering, but we're definitely out of the ordinary. The L5R campaign we just wrapped up had 3 players who were primarily interested in living out samurai fantasies and left once the rest of us wanted to introduce a new system.
I'm not convinced we will see a mass split and siloing as the new norm. If that does happen, I'd guess it'll end in less than a year because you wouldn't be able to keep groups together as everyone continues to hop to the flavor they want most. Meanwhile, the groups that will sustain the hobby will likely be those using systems that cater to the most interests.
Your next point about real life grouping up further emphasizing my own point. While the internet can support 1000 systems, your local game store (if you have one) caters to just a few. You'll learn to find the fun in what's available rather than seeking out the thing that fits you best.
I think this presumes a scenario in which people only play one game or rally around one game. This is deeply true in 5e world, but there are plenty of communities -- major, successful communities, like Storygames Seattle or The Gauntlet -- where people play new games all of the time, and it only help reinforce the scene.
Hey Jack! I think youre spot on with alot of these. Been playing 5e over 10 years and over the last few, their "cast the widest net" approach has become very apparent. Ive been looking into other systems and think ive decided to switch to Shadowdark but use DCC's magic system, to your point about modularity. Awesome video man
Story focused games, and mechanics around narrative, are my favourite aspects of the game because it encourages players to engage with it. My favourite system ever is a fan-made system based on the Digimon Franchise, which like Slugblaster is usually all about kids growing up in harsh circumstances. Each character starts with a trauma they need to work through over the course of their campaign. And boy, do I love this mechanic. I love it so much that I'm now the lead dev on the 2nd Edition of the system. Story focused games will always be my bread and butter, and I hope to see more of that as time goes on.
I completely agree with the groups. I'm currently building one in Melbourne Australia at the moment, based around gaming. Let's hope more of these communities grow
Thanks for the heads up on MotW’s ‘sidequest arc’ kickstarter! It reminds me of Story Paths from Burn Bryte (by James Introcaso et al for Roll20), which I love!!! Great video!❤
I have been playing with the same players for decades and we only play in-person, we largely play Rifts and like to use the Palladium Books system and run their games, we occasionally play D&D but play many different versions. We play Shadowrun, Battletech and have just started Call of Cthulhu but one of our biggest problems is that we have to modify almost every game we play to make it more realistic or at least make sense. We are very intelligent and well educated as a group and we have a hard time playing games with poorly designed or thought out rules.
These are great insights, and I’m totally on the same page. I would add that we’ll see many popular zines (or collections) become small box games containing a bunch of extras. These will be of particular appeal to retailers.
I GOTTA confess... I don't see the appeal of boxes!!!! I get it for the stores, but man I hate every box I own, even the beautiful shit like Mothership.
I instantly have tons of questions. How big is the group? Are these people you know IRL? How long are your campaigns, and what kinds of games have you experimented with?
@@Jack-gs6sd So far, we've experimented with 13th Age, thoug we've plaeyd some board games. The campaign is long so that may have something to do with it. It's the initial campaign, the current one, for first edition of 13th Age, not the upcoming 2nd edition Edit: Sorry for multiple comments, I thought I lost the other two LMAO
It would be interesting to see a Venn Diagram for how things overlap, and if there would be any difference if you make on each for play-style and system.
It's cyclical. In 1982, we had a split. Half of the D&D group discovered Call of Cthulhu, a great game, they left to play that, saying D&D was a bad game. I recall, when Vampire the Masquerade came out, it was the new cool game, again half the D&D left to play that. D&D 4e did the same with the Pathfinder split. There are always players leaving for RPGs that are better suited for them. The OGL fiasco is one variation of that phenomenon. But when the dust settles, D&D is still there and remains the locomotive of the industry. Many try it, many stay, some quit RPGs, and others move to other games. Disclaimer, I don't play D&D. I prefer Dragonbane.
I think you are spot on with all of these points...or maybe you've just laid out all of the specific things that I am currently most interested in myself and I'm just biased lol. In either case, great video. EDIT: Holy cow you're the Scene Kit guy!! I wrote my initial comment above about 75% of the way through the video and I was *specifically* thinking about this great new thing I'd come across called the "Scene Kit" and then you pulled it into frame at the end of the video! I haven't had the opportunity to use the Scene Kit yet, but I think what you're trying to do with it is visionary. Subscribed.
I agree with the communal world building. I think its really fun since everyone gets invested in the creation and from them there the game itself. Seriously world building alone is a fun exercise for sure.
Great video! I'm interested to see where this trend toward narrative mechanics goes. As an "actor" style GM that often plays with more "game" style players, this could be a way to combine our preferences.
I mean, this is exactly why I'm interested in this stuff!! I realize that I have an education in dramatic improv, but that everyday players don't know how to like, just come up with rich plot arcs off the top of their head, even if rich plot arcs and deep character drama is exactly what they might want. We need procedures to mak ethis kind of stuff successful!
Interesting convo, some points here. 1. Siloing/Balkanization: It is happening, but has happened many times before in the mid 80's, early 90s, early and late 00's, and now again in the 2020's. 2. As a New Jerseyan, I feel the issues in NYC with difficulty in gamer spaces getting together. Especially given the population size, there is not much a community. 3. What I see is groups being formed around Organized Play Campaigns, several are launching this year some are system neutral.
In my town we are focusing teaching older kids and young adults to play. It's a long term investment in the hobby. We cooperate with community houses do we get free housing for all the activities. We also get financial support from both businesses and the government. And we are utilising the experienced players to GM and teach. But we also appeal to other gameculture people for crosspolininating with livers, cosplayers, computergamers, board gamers and many others. It has become so much more than just games. It's fighting lonlyness, depression, otherness, boredom and social isolation.
The big swing is I think community based game centres like a actual gym where you pay a membership fee and then join a group, run at the centre, board game, TTRPG or whatever. The other is the actual shift away from D&D5E or big Corporate products that lock you in. Rather purchasing a more boxed set with expansion ideas. Like awaken realms allows more flexibility and variety.
Lately we've seen a little more D&D integration with public spaces. Both the biggest bar and the biggest community center within of mile of me in the next week are having D&D events!
I can't hear an accent Jack, ya sound upper Mid-Hudson/ Catskills. "Complete Strategist" is a great shop, I couldn't imagine gaming there though. I never got into 5e. I read the core books & thought it looked good but my group wanted to stick with our modified 3e/3.5/PF1e/D20 rules. I can see why they did but I would've given 5e a try. I only run home brewed settings since the '80s & in my experience players will always add to the world. We've been running games in the same world for over a decade now. The setting before that lasted 8 years. Sometimes players will misinterpret my descriptions, make assumptions or connections I didn't think of & come up w/ something way cooler, so I'll just go w/ it as if that's what I intended the whole time.
Hahaha, Mid-Hudson/Catskills!!!! Very very very impressive, my family's roots are in the Helderberg Mountains, though I've always lived more like the city. I'm in the Hudson Valley and Harriman all the time though!! If you were really guessing out of thin air, that's the most A+ Geoguesser accent shit I've ever seen.
@@Jack-gs6sd Thanks. My 2nd guess was you were from the Capitol Region & spent a lot of time in Queens but then ya said you were in Brooklyn @ the end so that guess was out. I'm from Saugerties/Woodstock (exit 20) in Ulster county & as the Northern most point of the Greater NYC area it's kinda a crossroads for accents. I can discern the Harriman,/Orange county accent though it takes me awhile, it's nearly identical but there are some subtle differences. I think I may have a natural knack for it. I once guessed a TH-camr was from Goshen in Orange county but he was from Montgomery in Orange county the next town over from Goshen. In his case & yours it was more about not hearing an accent than hearing one. Cheers!
I feel like I might be the odd one out who find themselve between both type of playstyle. Let me explain: I enjoy both the mechanical side and the roleplay aspect of the hobby, but in different formats. When it comes to narrative or roleplay-heavy campaigns, I prefer play-by-post (PBP) games. This format allows me to really dive into the character I've created and bring them to life in the way I imagine. On the other hand, if the focus is on combat and mechanics, I prefer voice-based play. (For context, I've never played a TTRPG in person.)
Ooooo, pbp story-driven games! I've heard that too, particularly around mechanics where one or two rolls can dictate the fate of an entire scene, like most PbtA games. I know a guy who absolutely loved playing Night Witches play-by-post.
Honestly, even seeing the D&D Next playtests told me 5e would get traction, but not be my ideal. That is why I started trying to find out how I wanted to build my own system, a modular universal toolbox.
Whether or not these will be trends we'll see, listening to someone in tune enough with the scene having reflections on what could be is a great inspiration. Here's hoping people find what they like and the hobby blooms from there. A lot of the games out there now are dry runs for future modularity. I guess the flip side of that, though, is that there only needs to be one mechanism that spoils it for people, but writers need to package a game to sell people on it (even if it's free), so they sort of have to commit to something. Maybe the 20XX thing is the way to go, but it's also pretty spread out, and a huge tome of modules might work from someone who isn't committed to a specific iteration (like GURPS but you point buy your way to a system you agree to play). The refinements will take a while, I think people are still trying to figure out what has the best quality of the particular flavor they think they prefer, but maybe we'll get there. Thanks for this, glad I clicked on it
Thanks so much for your appreciation and your comment :) You're right, I think we're going to see a lot of design experimentation and culture shift before we're comfortable with the level of modularity coming down the pike!
One True Wayism has been a tabletop RPG problem for at least the last two decades. "How dare someone enjoy, or think about, a *gaming hobby* in a way that's different than I do!" has been said, over and over again, not just with sincerity, but with fervour. And it is a blatantly ludicrous statement to make, akin to saying "Tomatoes on a cheese sandwich are wrong!" as anything other than a joke. BTW, I hate tomatoes you tomato and cheese sandwich weirdos. (flame my bad taste in not liking tomatoes in the comments below)
Hey jack! Awesome video. I’m particularly excited about the communal world building that you mentioned. What is the link to the discord where you got world wizard? I’d love to play test it as well and build a world with my group. Thanks!
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF. I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
Holy shit everything you said in this video is a banger. You’ve got a permanent subscriber and an active watcher from now on. The audio quality was great, editing was great liked the words on the screen that would show when you were explaining certain sections.
Localization: Pre-Internet, my gaming was all in homes or dorm rooms. While I enjoy gaming at a store, I really didn't start that until many years later in the 2000s. Right now, gaming at home would suck as my apt complex has paid visitor spaces and starts ticketing cars as early as 6 pm.
Ayyyyy well I'm all over the place so I hope I keep you feeling refreshed and entertained, even when the folks make me do another fucking craft video or somthing.
@@Jack-gs6sd I think you kind of want to do the craft video. It was the B-plot of the video. You mentioned crafting more than you mentioned Mancala Beads.
There's a system called Dark Heresy (2 editions of it) with the newest version of it called Imperium Maledictum that is actually, straight up Warhammer 40k Inquisition. Currently have a 70 session deep campaign in the latter, only the base book out right now but a planned something like 12 more books.
For the last 10 years I have gamed almost every week online with the same friends. We started streaming our sessions and even got some decent success out of it. But I am tired now. Oh so effin' tired. I am not in college anymore, I am starting a family. Everything is changing and I didn't want this gaming group to change. But the streaming channel eventually became more important than anything else, almost a second job. And I got tired of it. Saying goodbye wasn't even that painful. Their attitude wasn't "we game to have fun and keep the channel up to have a schedule" anymore. I was just a dead weight to them, and I was treated as such. But I don't want to stop gaming. I am currently looking for new friends in my area to play in person. Internet gaming is dead for me.
Another thing. Currently working on getting story beats in my game (by which I mean tricking my players into making good characters) I'm attempting to make antagonists who are more powerful if they have their 'resolve' intact, which is like their core belief, typically tied to the plot. The more players manage to push them back on their commitment to their beliefs, the weaker they get. Still have to beat em up most of the time tho.
I think this is correct within a certain subset of the industry and that you are severely overestimating the proportion of the hobby that describes. D&D-especially 5e-is the biggest to a large degree because it facilitates different styles of engagement in succession or tandem, enabling it to appeal to a wide array of player tastes and desires in the same game. This directly proceeds from its mechanically divergent subsystems. While it largely accomplishes each of these minimally adequately at best, adequate is a lot more than none. By contrast, most other systems are either very tight (Pathfinder) or homogeneous with differences in being largely in the narrative with mechanical differences largely being nominal. The trade-off of specialization is loss of generalization, and that means narrower appeal. Narrower appeal is an issue because ttrpgs are tiny. The playerbase is miniscule compared that of video games while requiring usually 4+ people seeking the same or reconcilable engagements/experiences on the same platform/location, at the same time, using the same system, at comparable skill level. If you do not happen to live in a dense urban environment with high accessibility to lots of players, that is very difficult to set up. 5e mitigates that issue by enabling a wider range of divergence in engagement/experience to play together and lowering the skill floor by how much is carried by the DM. I can some of these trends taking off in the locales you described. Those are a subset of the playerbase, though, and I do not see those trends taking off much more than they already have been outside of those contexts. I especially do not think collaborative worldbuilding is going to go mainstream; the majority of players are far too passive, simulationist, or game-leaning for that to ever be anything more than significant minority. I can see the modularity part potentially taking off, though; that is the approach to my WIP system, certainly.
"D&D-especially 5e-is the biggest to a large degree because it facilitates different styles of engagement in succession or tandem, enabling it to appeal to a wide array of player tastes and desires in the same game. This directly proceeds from its mechanically divergent subsystems." Yeah look, I just don't think this is true at all. Like, what mechanically divergent subsystems are you talking about here? D&D 5e is basically a gridded combat system, plus the most rhudimentary skill system ever devised, and almost nothing else to hold on to. I think a lot of people think that D&D is popular because it's got something for everyone, but I just profoundly think this is upside down and backwards. And I say this as someone with a profound love and respect for (and years of experience with) D&D 5e!
Hi, I've spent months developing a non-TTRPG game only to discover that I find the communities too toxic and I'd rather pivot to supporting the TTRPG scene. From that perspective, my "game" would act as a modular character creation and development system, but not a world- or story- builder. So I'm looking for people to work with to either flesh it out into a game or set it up to work along with other existing systems. But, the last time I asked about this, I was told that I need to be a long-standing member of a TTRPG group in order to be taken seriously. As this was a side project for me, I don't have those contacts and I may never reach that level of involvement. Does anyone know of a group willing to hear outside ideas and maybe start working on a project with someone who didn't "grow up" in their world? Or should I take my ideas elsewhere?
I am not sure if the in person games will jump back. There was a serious hit since Covid to both ttrpg and board games. I recently was looking in meetup and it is still pretty dead in my area ( pre COVID has a group every night.) there are a few many miles away so in that part I don’t see it bouncing back to pre COVID levels. I do think the splintering of the gaming community is definitely happening. The whole dnd gaming licensing thing set a fire under alot of publishers and gamers and I’ve never seen so many options for different games. It’s a great thing. I do think dnd will continue to fall and they will videogame the product more and more till it looks more like fortnight then dnd. This will give others in the hobby to pick up the slack and I predict in maybe 5 years people in this hobby will be playing a variant of dnd and dnd will Appel to a completely different market of gamers as it will become more like heroclix online where getting cool looking avatars loot and effects in 3d videogame dnd will be more important then the story and gameplay.
I will be, but not yet!! Right now, what you see on the blog is what I've got, but I would love to show off more soon. If you want to give it a try when it's ready, I recommend either subscribing here on TH-cam or, better yet, "follow" me or something on itch.io where I publish new things, then you really will only get a very rare email telling you when I've published something new! I can't wait to show more people!!
I have a couple of questions about the collabrative world building section of the video. As someone who really wants to get into this type of game to help build my dnd worlds and make them feel more real, what other games than the ones you have listed here have you played? Also where did you get your hands on the hex map you have and the game "World Wizard" cause this seems like the exact game I would want to try for my play group. Lastly if you haven't checked out a game called "Beak Feather and Bone" you should try it out. It has you take on the role of a faction where you pick buildings on a map and create what that building was used for.
Oh man, there's a lot! I think it deserves its own video. It depends on what you're trying to make, I feel like there are several city-builders like 'i'm sorry did you say street magic,' there are the Ben Robbins/Lame Mage collection of games which are good for builidng Factions, Timelines, Families, Civilizations, Histories. I like the Freebooters on the Frontier 2e supplements, those have a lot of region-builders in the spirit of Perilous Wilds (you can find those supplements in the same Discord as Worldwizard). I should make a video about all of this. I love Beak, Feather & Bone, but I haven't gotten a chance to run it yet (a similar game is 'Grasping Nettles'). As for Worldwizard, I pinned a comment with instructions on how to hunt the PDF down.
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF. I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
Yeah for sure!! I'll probably blog a ton about it when it's out, but you could probably get the playtest right now for free. My instructions would simply be: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF. The game is deceptively simple but holy shit does it sing on the table.
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF. I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
I guess you missed the Forge. Wasn't my cup of tea (I found the mechanics got in the way of the fun for me), but you should totally check out Hamlet's Hit Points, 1,001 Nights, and Troll Babe.
No idea when it comes out, but you can probably get it for free in no time if you have Discord. Here are the instructions I gave someone else: "My instructions would simply be: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF. The game is deceptively simple but holy shit does it sing on the table."
I have, unfortunately, no interest in Slugblaster. I cannot relate to any of its themes. But the help with character arcs does sound intriguing. I'll be interested to see more about your scene crafting project.
I think these are great predictions! D&D has been the dominant system because it's so versatile for different play styles. Do you think we'll see a dominant set of systems, one for each play style?
Dominant systems? No no, I don't think so at all, I think that's what modularity has going for it. We need less giant tentpole games that people feel they have to conform to, and more flexibility so that each table has something that works without lots of on-ramping.
How do I join the discord for worldwizard and freebooters on the frontier? I've searched for like half an hour and can't find anything with those games or lampback and brimstone they gotta work on their seo or something
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF. I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
I know you prefaced at the beginning these aren't really new but I don't think most players realize just how early the split playstyle was. Barely after D&D got rolling you had a fundemental division in game philosophy between the more basic "kriegspiel" style B/X which leaned on adjudication outside the rules and AD&D that was much more rigid and codified setting player expectations but also locking the game in more with its mechanics. Neither of these are the "correct" way to play but that schism STILL exists in the rpg community. And it's not just really tactical Pathfinder players versus art punk zine OSR types, you can look at a lot of games and and see which side of the coin they lean towards in how they address different playing preferences. Personally I enjoying owning and running hundreds of different games and systems but I'm blessed with having a big pool of people to play with. I just like seeing how different games use mechanics not just to cover basic gameplay but to specifically drive a theme or tone of the game. For example I love the Mouse Guard RPG for how it's mechanics of seasons create an organic living world that the party walks through while also demonstrating a very real passage of time and change. But I also don't blame anyone who plays something approachable like 5e just for better access, it does a good job at that.
It's funny that you mentioned the Clinton Administration. That's about the time when I, as an elementary schooler that was reading a ton of Choose-Your-Own-Adventure books and loving GTA more than any other game because of its freedom, wished that TTRPGs were a thing 😂. I was very much enamored with medieval fantasy above any other genre (as I still maintain). That being said, I don't really know what kind of player I am. I am a player who wants to portray a character in accordance with whom he or she is via 3rd person actions rather than LARPing (as seems to be increasingly popular via The Matt Mercer Effect).
"portray a character in accordance with whom he or she is via 3rd person actions rather than LARPing" Well I'm glad you subbed then because I have an absolute fuckload to say about this.
Yeah it's sick and you can play it with anyone in no time. It's also one of those crystal-clear game texts that does exactly what it says on the package with no learning curve.
@@arthurmarques6191 message me on Substack or something, I’ll get you to tbe Brooklyn OSR Discord (I just don’t wanna post tbe link here). From there we can chat!
On the topic of modularity, have you checked out Dungeoncrawl 2e at all? It's a setting/narrative engine that is both a (kind of narrow) world-building tool (that functions with The Big Idea-style adverb+noun cards ❤) AS WELL AS a solo play oracle. It has a lightweight system in the box, but it's deliberately designed to be modular enough to swap in any mechanics as long as you determine what constitues a minor bonus/penalty to rolls, and what constitutes minor damage (from environmental hazards and such). So you could totally take like, 7th Sea, the trad-iest of trad games from the 90s, and use it to fuel a solo play swashbuckling adventure in the Underdark or Fallen London. My mind is blown.
I mean I agree with the localized communities! In Los Angeles, I have specifically started a West Marches group for the Video Game Industry and Designers! It's happening as you speak.
I want a TTRPG that is narrative as heck, but mechanical enough that dice rolls don't feel arbitrary (or hold the narrative hostage.) Maybe 2025 will be the year.
@@WilliamMcAdams I’m sure the system exists for you! Have you played with FitD games yet like Blades and it’s cousins? I just started GMing that stuff and boy oh boy does it feel crunchy
Cortex Prime, Fate (Accelerated, Condensed, Core), 7th Sea 2nd Edition, Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA), Blades/Forged in the Dark... these games inherently lean away from arbitrary action rolls. That said... You will also need to find a group that adheres to that same belief about dice rolls. (While the rules for 7th Sea 2nd Edition effectively prevents the following from happening, it still applies to most other systems.) If your DM/GM/Narrator is of the belief that every action needs to be checked for success or failure, you can end up rolling arbitrarily for everything no matter the system. But by the same token if you have a more laisses faire DM/GM/Narrator every action might become a handwave effort. Your level of granularity is dependent on talking with your group and making sure you're all on the same page. It's less a system detail and more a playgroup detail. (Except in 7th Sea 2nd Edition, where it really is a system issue. You're only gonna roll dice one per action round with that game no matter what, it's convoluted but an amazing system once you experience it.) (Also, never played it, my playgroup has never been open to playing it. They honestly don't get the approach-based action economy.)
Check out ZWEIHANDER: Grim & Perilous. d100 system. The mechanics are rather intuitive, simple percent to succeed, but the addition of Peril and Corruption as mechanics that simulate stress and morality makes rolling the dice meaningful.
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF. I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
also fabula ultima does a great job of having the shared world building being the in book default, that aids the game in letting players spend fabula points to influence truths and possible allies in the world to help the party, rather then always spending them on rerolls in combat.
24:35 Didn't read Slugblasters but hadn't 7th Sea have similar approach to character advancement? 14:27 My brother, so you say when Steve Jackson was designing GURPS should have let go of Verisimilitude/Realism and should instead focused on Narrative Gameplay Structures?
Well, mostly wrong. "Modularity" sounds like a direct synonym to a regular homebrewing everyone practice from the very beggining of the hobbie. Communal worldbuilding robs players from the world exploration just as asking players to describe the world instead of a GM. It can be fun for a certain group, but world-building is not role-playing. And story structure can be put in the game just because a GM knows how storytelling work. If you force it in a certain way, it will be a form of a nu-railroading. Just like in joking videos about a GM who gives players scripts to read from. Of course all of these can be sold as revolutionary by grifters.
1. Modularity and homebrewing are… just such vastly different things. You should do some research! 2. All this ranting about communal worldbuilding just smacks if “I haven’t done that, because it’s impossible, except for all of the people doing this and thriving, who are the Wrong Ones.” 3. Much of the rest of this is incoherent, but not everyone experiences this stuff through the lens of joy and exploration. That’s fine!
Kind of agree but don't really like the games to come if you're right (I'm a traditionnal gamer forever) and also there's game like this since fifteen years in the indie/forgian scene) like On mighty thews, perfect unrevised, ben lehman's polaris (i try thos and have fun even if it's not what i want to play now)
Look, I think it's still going to remain a great time to be a trad gamer, having been one most of my life. Do you count ongoing updates to systems like Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, and what Free League gets up to? I really think this scene is going to remain a pillar, I think that stuff is going nowhere, and will always have a lot of community around it, even if I've grown a little weary of it over time.
@@Jack-gs6sd Not a big fan of free league but yeah the last Call of cthulhu is great. It's almost as big as DND here in France, I like good scenario and simple streamlined rules that doesn't block the ungoing story as opposed to the kind of "bordgame like" system that seems trendy now. But there's room for everyone !
I don't see here much new predictions. D&D was supposed to be dead and all the cool kids were supposed to play Burning Wheel lol Designing for specific preferences was the thing for designer who bought into GNS theory. Well, turns out majority of players groups are constructed of friends with varied preferences. Game that have have more broad appeal and bridges gap simply hits the table more often. Shared world-building was supposed to big thing since Fate. And yet most popular systems are still the one that come with pre-made world. Modularity - that one not even a trend, games like GURPS and Cortex Prime are a thing. ADnD had more optional rules than actual necessary ones.
@Jack-gs6sd yeah. In the section on "how to run a game". I learned that the authors worked in Television and wrote a variation of used to be a bit of a secret - how TV and movie stories were written quickly. These authors used their previous knowledge and wrote it in to the BC core book. Whip up stories in minutes.
Procedures for structuring stories... So you're basically saying 7th Sea 2nd Edition... Every character's advancement is hinged on their own plot points... The group narrative has it's own plot points... the entire game is designed around personal will influencing fate. And when you pulled out that clipboard full of scene setup flowcharts and started talking about setting the scene and everything, I immediately smacked my forehead and shouted out loud, "FATE! He's describing FATE!" And yeah, I'm all for these trends. Love these aspects of game play, design, and collaboration. I agree that the play communities are going to get more and more niche with a lot of splinter factions breaking off as they discover their own playstyle doesn't match the homogenized melting pot of TTRPG and instead leans more heavily into things like Narrative Gameplay, Collaborative Gameplay, Tactical Gameplay, and so forth. I think its going to be spurred forward even more by the drive of certain companies to further water down creativity while miking the community at large for every penny they can without contributing value to the pot. I look forward to more thoughts on these topics. This has been my first time encountering your channel... it will not be my last. liked, subscribed. Thank you! The hobby needs more insight from people in general, but specifically well thought out insights like these.
ALSO! Holy Moly! You're the 'zorro-mask' talk show guy! I thought I was already following and subscribed to you. Something went wrong there. Error corrected!
Actually, let me be a little more constructive: I'm the usual player over on @inclinedeclinegaming2541 and for my in-person games, I sometimes (not as often as I want) run my games using UDT. I'd like to collaborate and discuss UDT or other presentation styles if you're interested in doing something together, because I have lots of opinions I want to share.
@@Jack-gs6sd I think my comment is getting ate up. I'm @inclinedeclinegaming2541 and have a ton to say on the subject, I'd like to talk about it with you.
Looking for Worldwizard? Hop over to this Kickstarter page and there's a Discord link in the update here. Join that Discord, find the #worldwizard channel, and you can get the playtest PDF! www.kickstarter.com/projects/1735046512/the-perilous-void/posts/4217707
I visited the kickstarter page to look for the world wizard PDF and there is no sign of it. Can you share a direct link to download that PDF please? And I looked at the #worlld wizard channel and there is zero content to view.
It does bug me that people allowed marketers to co-opt the term "community" as a less-offputting replacement for "demographic"
Yeah, that's definitely part of it! But I just think there's a general hunger, people just wanna say "the community" about all sorts of stuff. There's a longing! But you're so right, "demographic," haha, what a way to put it.
It's kind of disturbing because how do you explain to people that community is an essential human need when people think that word means "people who happen to share a trait but have never met"
@@peregrinecovington4138I mean, social contact and belonging is the human need.
A community is more of a vague bundle of social interactions and discussion created by something that unites those people
But yeah, online communities are veryyy distant, and i guess exist primarily for selling stuff a lot of the time
But yeah, you’re right. It’s weird how people often don’t realize how much starved we are of genuine socializing, myself included.
Or even just 'customer base'
I much prefer being a consumer of RPGs than a member of an imagined community. Additional to the reasons above, community further implies shared values and I am, when gaming, not interested in the values of thousands of strangers, the majority in another country than mine.
I have a very different but maybe helpful perspective on the state of RPGs. For context I’m a teenager, and one of the only ones who actively plays non-5E games like Mörk Borg and the like. Every single one of my peers who wants to learn “D&D” wants to play a game like D&D as they’ve seen it in media, and don’t really care about the rules. In fact, they don’t really understand the 5E rules at all, they just want to play a game. I think it’ll get easier to onboard people into other systems when they realize that every game except 5E and maybe some other older ones takes at most 10 minutes to learn, and allows the same kind of freedom a bigger game does.
> Every single one of my peers who wants to learn “D&D” wants to play a game like D&D as they’ve seen it in media, and don’t really care about the rules.
YES! This is so important, most traditional kinds of D&D are NOTHING LIKE what people get pitched on. They think they're getting a cool game of storytelling and imagination and then they're like "wtf is an 'action economy.'" There's a reason that Dungeon World marketed itself in its small online community (ha) as "the game you thought D&D was going to be before you played it."
I'm glad you're running all sorts of stuff for your friends! What do they like best? And what do you like running best?
I remember being a teenage DM, it was a really life-giving experience, I'm really proud of you.
@ Scheduling, even at the age where we mostly don’t have jobs, is hard so we haven’t done much this year. But I have been running some of the Mörk Borg games and while they haven’t exactly been hooked on the OSR playstyle yet they’re getting there. Our collective favorite so far has been Pirate Borg. It’s the kind of setting that just clicks really well at the table and the module in the core book is amazing.
This is so freaking true! 5E never clicked with me as a DM, and a couple other players. I experimented with Cyberpunk 2020 and immediately loved the role play more, just not the combat. Then tried out Castle and Crusades and it was pure bliss, finally fun combat, and one player wanted to play hours more 🥹
If you think games take ten minutes to learn you haven't seen GURPS or Hero.
@ Less haven’t seen and more intentionally avoiding lol. Rules-light stuff is just my jam
One reason I love ttrps is because they're not stories, they're rpgs. Things don't have to follow the hero's journey, you can die in stupid ways, and the villians can just straight up win.
I'm all for setting up more info for creating more interesting story arcs, but I don't want to pull away from the game so much that it turns into collective story telling. The dice givith and the dice taketh away.
That's just real life with extra steps lmfao
Haha, no.
They're wargames, directly derived from _Braunstein._
No Get Along Gang. Multiple independent entities (solos, groups, factions, etc.) operating under a Fog of War. Strict timekeeping, resource management, and PVP is _always_ on the table because conflict over objectives is inevitable. _That_ is what the medium and hobby is; stories are something you write, solo, for publication _and thus this is a medium of Ludology not Narrative._ Peterson's works, _Secrets of Blackmoor,_ and more document this.
All errors in the hobby start with that fundamental one. All errors are fixed by admitting the truth and changing behavior to conform to reality.
I am part of an RPG community that last year Discord played with 6 people and now we are +600.
Here in Lima Peru most RPG communities around stores are not very big (like around 80). RPG is not a very common hobby here, but they usually partner with big (non store) clubs.
I believe that non store communities here are going to play a major role in this part of the world, they will keep alive the community even at the fall of stores.
Greetings from a sunny place, here we have sunmer during and holiday season, so having people dressed as Santa in summer is kinda funny for me.
Man you got a lot to unpack, I'm gonna listen to it at least 4 times to savor every drop.
Gotta share your video in my community.
You should make a video about this.
Whoa, Lima Peru!! I'm so curious, what kinds of games and campaign do you guys play there? I'd love to know more about what strengths your community has and what challenges you face. Are you part of an IRL group currently?
The thing with the "Siloing" is more akin to the phenomenon of atomization. You get groups that split apart so much, that they aren't able to find replacements for leaving players and so on. For instance, I live like 30 miles from the next game store, and I'm not a huge "mainstream" game fan, so my only chance of ever playing "Burning Wheel" for example are basically 0 if I don't run it myself. Especially since I'm from a country where English is not the mother tongue.
And that's the reason why D&D 5E will never fall, you either GM something like it or other big systems like Cthulhu, or else you're SOL and never find players or GMs.
Hell, the bigger part of this hobby can't even get groups together consistently, while others are completely shut off from other tables because they have their core group which doesn't have the need to reach out to strangers.
God, so many of the problems with D&D 5e as a game are addressed by its secret weapon of "There a just a shitload of people who play it all the time and are willing to hang out and play it with you."
@Jack-gs6sd I do think a lot of these people are starting to muddle with the game more, inject their own stuff and fix their gripes with it. I've seen so many people recently say something to the effect of "DnD is owned by nobody, Wizards might write the books but the game is whatever we play at our table." I think this will only become more common as local communities form--people need to unite over a general system and 5e is kinda the default, but the veterans want to tweak it to fix the issues they have with it. A lot of other games that focus on communal world building etc might also become more common as things used in tandem with this, like you said. Just my two cents!
Username checks out.
Time is a flat circle.
This entire video was a forum thread on RPG Net over 30 years ago. Look at what happened since. WIthout some well-heeled and tightly-disciplined leaders doing some Out of Context (for most) moves, _nothing will change_ and this video will still be relevant 30 years from now (only we'll be talking about 10th Edition D&D and it will still be worthless slop but NO ONE beats it because NO ONE groks Network Effects).
N.B.: Playing AD&D1e _exactly as-written_ compels the creation of a world communally, but most people aren't ready for _that_ conversation because that requires breaking out of their Get Along Gang paradigm.
You definitely play with a different caliber of players. I love world building, but i don't have that much time to hang with other people to play all the stuff your suggestions. That's why a fully structured game is just faster to set up and play.
The decline of 5th editions appeal to me does indeed include a hefty dose of rising contempt for Hasbro/WotC, with Magic the Gathering being their other game I've since stopped playing/purchasing for similar reasons at the start of 2024. That gave me the push to look at alternatives, realising Pathfinder, DC20 and other crunchy systems are the opposite direction for the kind of game I want to run, since 5e can get bogged down in rules lawyering at times enough already, particularly at higher levels. What I did get to try out and immedietly fall in love with was Daggerheart. Simple and compact enough as information to get people up and running quickly, vague enough in flavor to allow for things like a melee strength Ranger if you fancied without being a poorly performing meme. The issue that will arise from this though is getting folks in person to try this system. Right now, it was quick and easy to set up a group of 6 players (originally aimed for 5) to do a regular weekly evening of 5e. Based on the success rate I've seen locally for anything else, from old editions of D&D to Call of Cthulu, 5e is THE show in town.
Thanks for the insight! I'm definitely someone who bounced around this year. I'm in a regular 5e game, but I also played Shadowdark for awhile (which I loved), and now I'm getting ready to run my first PbtA game, Chasing Adventure. I've gone from playing exclusively online to playing in person for the first time again since pre-covid. And we're using procedures from The Perilous Wilds to create our campaign setting. So, really spot on observations. 2025 should prove to be interesting with games like Daggerheart and Draw Steel potentially pulling even more players out of the 5e pile.
For the last point I feel there will be an increase in investment into player narrative skill. That is resources for players to support narrative arcs, game themes, inter-party character development support, world enrichment, lore and NPC investment, etc and expectations from GMs for it. This is mainly from the siloing space made for narrative and acting interested players being able to work in ttrpgs with their skill base and exploring what more can be extended in the hobby. It won't be for every group but with all the actual plays online and the experimentation of niche games there are going to be more games I feel that demand a skill level of narrative shaping that is not entry level friendly, much like some game's mechanics have complexity that isn't new ttrpg player friendly. I'd put games like Alice is Missing and Dialect as possible different examples.
Awesome insight! I’m super excited about the future of TTRPGS-I have a feeling that a lot of RPG book clubs are gonna start popping up everywhere.
We can only hope!!
Having recently watched Quinn's Slugblaster video, I had the beat sheet system fresh in my mind. Yeah, it seems like very fertile ground for development. My thing, because my players still want to play 5e, has been to encourage/mandate them to create their own d20 random table based on vague concepts tied to character wish fulfillment. Ie, one player wants to do some clandestine wetwork, another wants to make discoveries based on a star chart, another wants to investigate the collapse of his blood hunter order, etc. When one result is ticked off, it's replaced by a new one. I call for when the d20 tables came into play and act as the middle man to convert them into arcs, but I'm also one of the DMs that read the screenwriting books, so I'm fairly comfortable with the task. Still, I like the Slugblaster approach. Metacurrencies aren't everyone's cup of tea, but giving player's agency is generally a positive thing, and having arcs to keep it structured is overall less work for the DM.
Thanks for the video. I'mma have to check out your blog.
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@@KazisCollection++
Not only do I agree with all of these, but I want my gaming group to BE all of these. What I’m thinking is of having a “game lab,” like a game night but more experimental, almost like a reading group. I want to bring together different gamers/hobbyists together and play through small story arcs and different systems, commenting on what we like and curating a stable of different games we use to get at what we want. I have relatively few of the games you show, but I also have plenty of games you don’t-that means that it would be great for gamers who have different games to get around a table and introduce mechanics, systems, zines, etc., without having to build a whole campaign up in each. We only have so many weeks a year, but I’d love to be able to experience more games and more systems and more, well, EVERYTHING of the ttrpg hobby. So that’s my goal for 2025-develop a homegrown game lab.
YES! This is a great idea. At my apartment, we're constantly running new things, trying one-shots, grabbing popular games and giving them a try, and then chatting like crazy about what we liked and didn't. Often when I run something, players will debrief and, if they're interested, I'll even take them behind-the-screen so to speak to see what things are like for prep and running.
It takes a little hustle and planning, but it's ABSOLUTELY worth it, and I love that we're thinking the same way. As for advice on how to schedule something like that... well, I have a whole other video in the archives on that one :)
It's weird for me because, like you said, people play these games differently or expect different things from the games.
Like, I've never fully understood the desire for games that 'create a story', because... that's not what I feel role playing games are. Thats more along the lines of 'story games' (not saying that as a derogative, more of a 'different emphasis in design and expectation'). Role playing is more about exploring a world, playing the role of a character in that world. As opposed to 'acting' as that character to fulfill the beats of an interpretive improvise story.
Because the big thing for me is that, whenever I play or GM, the story is never something 'planned' or 'developed', but instead its something that always happens after the game. Because I treat the world as its real, not 'realistic', but real, with a logical set of rules and playing as interesting characters. And the players 'interact' with the world, the world interacts back, and there's player agency to where, not only are the players playing a role, but the GM is also playing the role 'of the world'. While I've created the world, I'm kind of following along as much as they are as I toss fun issues or problems at them to see how they answer them.
When the players retell various situations that happened in the game, its like how "after Jeff failed the attack on Blood Slayer the Imp, everywhere he go's he'd ask for news on Blood Slayer, until finally he found him, and slew him in revenge. But afterwords he realized that he no longer had drive as revenge had fueled him, until saving another imp, a maiden, in which he fell in love with, realizing that he didn't need bloodlust to fill his heart."
There was no 'planning' that my friend would have his character be obsessed with chasing down this random mini boss that got away and then being this weird revenge, despair, and romance arc.
Though thats kind of the thing, different people expecting different things from games. And I really think we might end up having to 'segment' the TTRPG industry and actively attach labels to these games. Like "This is a TTRPG" and "This is a Story game" and "This is someone's world building notes disguised as a game" (I joke I joke).
Haha, yep, you and I are from different schools! I think you're right at the end there, we keep talking about "tabletop roleplaying games" as though it's all one thing. Our spaces are so full of theory and philosophizing and prevarication, and yet our terms are still SO BAD.
I'm not a board gamer, but every day I get more and more like "I think... I think those people have higher standards of rigor, definition, and design literacy than we do..."
@@Jack-gs6sdWe do. 😂😂😂 JK
Agree'd. I might, as a GM have some intentions for cool stuff later on, but the actions of the players and the emergent scenarios are what create the story of the game.
@@Jack-gs6sd At the moment I mostly separate things based on 'rules interaction', like what part of the game does the rules 'actively' interact with more.
TTRPGs as we classically know them are "Rules for the World", in which the rules *mostly* interact with the world as if they are laws of physics, x can only travel this far, a character can inflict x amount of damage due to their Y strength and Z weapon.
While what I call StoryGames are "Rules for the Narrative", in which the rules actively manipulate the 'narrative' of the game. I spend a story point so that in the past I bribed this guard earlier, its not framed as a 'time manipulation' ability, but a literal 'narrative flashback'. My character succeeds in their 'dramatic action' stunt, so he swings on a chandelier that wasn't even mentioned by the GM because it would be applicable to the story, or even just appear cause the scene calls for it. My character got hurt by either a sword or a scathing comment, so now they are 'emotionally conflicted' and need to play that out in order to feel.
This is the reason why there's never combat in 'Storygames', and instead treats it in the same way as any argument or stab wound, because combat in its essence as a game is entirely based on 'rules for the world' as we understand it. Our character moves 'here' to attack from 'this' angle to get advantage. While Storygames either have a bolted on entirely different ruleset for combat that bloats the game up, or just have it turn into 'status effect dodgeball'.
Almost every single PBTA game (I count Blades in the Dark and its offshoots as PbtA) are StoryGames due to their high reliance on heavy meta narrative rules. On top of the fact that there's kind of a weird aspect of how, TTRPG's are made for a 'specific world' and Storygames are made for 'a specific story'. TTRPGs, you can have a fantasy world, but the players can have, a spooky mystery, a high flying adventure, a dismal tragedy, a comedy of errors. While in a Storygame, you can have it in a fantasy world or a sci fi world, but damn it the game will be kicking and screaming at you if you attempt to do anything other than some kind of 'cozy cafe management sim with interpersonal drama'. ((Though despite this, ironically Storygames tend to be restricting in setting as well as many story beats/tropes/steriotypes tend to also be genere specific and need a lot more work to translate between settings, thus the popularity of the 'Space Western' many years after the normal 'Western'. While TTRPGs tend to be easier to convert to different settings cause "every world has gravity"))
I could go on, I could add things like 'subdivisions' of TTRPGs, you have the 'game' TTRPG, aka your more simplistic or abstracted systems, your "Simulation" TTRPG which is more about 'accuracy above all else". Your 'Stage play' Story Game that sets up a scene and has playbooks, and your "activity" Story Game where its more about 'reacting' to what the game gives you (example, Alice is Missing).
Anyway, thank you for participating in my Ted Talk. ;p
"Collaborative world building" which would be like an anthology, similar to Wildcards, Thieves World, War World.
Sounds good.
Thieves World is such a deep cut, and I smile every time I see it brought up.
Also, wow, were those books messed up sometimes.
This is an excellent video! I know in various design spaces that we've been talking about this stuff for the past year, so definitely accurate for where things are going into the hobby. I'm very excited to see games get more specific, but also provide more modular tools to apply to other systems. I think in this way even though play cultures may be more "siloed" off there is still connections between them to avoid stagnation of the hobby.
The stagnation question is good though -- does silo'ing mean stagnation? I'm not sure!! On the one hand, I'm inclined to agree. On the other, being in a space where we can better articulate preferences and differences... I don't know. Could help! Much to think about.
The Scene Kit sounds sick! As a fantasy writer and wanna be Game Director, I would buy that in a second.
"you don't have to buiild a game for everyone" you do if you want ALL the money
@@MartianDropkick haha I hear you but look, I think this might be true for the handful of trad games that are 30+ years old, but is this true for anyone making a new game today??
A game can't truly be for everyone. Many things you add to a game detract from other things. One person likes what another hates.
technically, you don't have to build a game for anyone and can still get ALL the money. while unique mechanics can be trademarked, game mechanics can't be copyrighted. Any rule set can be reproduced with any setting skinned over the top of it. You can technically skin any game, put your own setting over it, publish it and make money for that ruleset's market. Do this to enough niche ruleset playstyles and you'll have ALL the money without building a single game.
GURPS. You’re referring to GURPS. (At least when it comes to what type of stories you can tell.)
@@Ravenovia Now you've just got me imagining the guys at Steve Jackson games cackling with their monocles and top hats like the monopoly man
My group explicitly is made up of players of all those sorts of types, and I personally feel the reason we manage that so well is because we each are at some level a little of everything and one thing majorly. We're a well rounded party in that respect. We're also incredibly fortunate that everyone in our group has grown sick of 5E D&D and we haven't had a single game turned down since it was brought to the table. Since we formed the group in January of 2023, we've played 2 Dark Eye campaigns, Monster of the Week, Cthulhu, and Legend of the 5 Rings (4E specifically). Next up is a 3.5 campaign set in the world of the Warlord TCG, and after that is going to probably be more Monster of the Week, 3E L5R, and Symbaroum.
I think you are correct about groups splitting apart based on interest, because we lost a lot of players along the way who couldn't get into the groove of anything but 5E D&D. I don't think my group is some sort of lightning in a bottle sort of gathering, but we're definitely out of the ordinary. The L5R campaign we just wrapped up had 3 players who were primarily interested in living out samurai fantasies and left once the rest of us wanted to introduce a new system.
I'm not convinced we will see a mass split and siloing as the new norm. If that does happen, I'd guess it'll end in less than a year because you wouldn't be able to keep groups together as everyone continues to hop to the flavor they want most. Meanwhile, the groups that will sustain the hobby will likely be those using systems that cater to the most interests.
Your next point about real life grouping up further emphasizing my own point. While the internet can support 1000 systems, your local game store (if you have one) caters to just a few. You'll learn to find the fun in what's available rather than seeking out the thing that fits you best.
I think this presumes a scenario in which people only play one game or rally around one game. This is deeply true in 5e world, but there are plenty of communities -- major, successful communities, like Storygames Seattle or The Gauntlet -- where people play new games all of the time, and it only help reinforce the scene.
Hey Jack! I think youre spot on with alot of these. Been playing 5e over 10 years and over the last few, their "cast the widest net" approach has become very apparent. Ive been looking into other systems and think ive decided to switch to Shadowdark but use DCC's magic system, to your point about modularity. Awesome video man
Story focused games, and mechanics around narrative, are my favourite aspects of the game because it encourages players to engage with it. My favourite system ever is a fan-made system based on the Digimon Franchise, which like Slugblaster is usually all about kids growing up in harsh circumstances. Each character starts with a trauma they need to work through over the course of their campaign. And boy, do I love this mechanic. I love it so much that I'm now the lead dev on the 2nd Edition of the system. Story focused games will always be my bread and butter, and I hope to see more of that as time goes on.
I completely agree with the groups. I'm currently building one in Melbourne Australia at the moment, based around gaming.
Let's hope more of these communities grow
This is heroic work! Often boring and unglamorous, but super important. Keep it up!!!!!
Thanks for the heads up on MotW’s ‘sidequest arc’ kickstarter! It reminds me of Story Paths from Burn Bryte (by James Introcaso et al for Roll20), which I love!!! Great video!❤
Oh shit! These are so cool, yes, QUITE like what I'm talking about. Introcaso is a brilliant designer, I'm not surprised he's onto this.
I have been playing with the same players for decades and we only play in-person, we largely play Rifts and like to use the Palladium Books system and run their games, we occasionally play D&D but play many different versions. We play Shadowrun, Battletech and have just started Call of Cthulhu but one of our biggest problems is that we have to modify almost every game we play to make it more realistic or at least make sense. We are very intelligent and well educated as a group and we have a hard time playing games with poorly designed or thought out rules.
Haha, damn, sounds like you're a REAL trad gamer. Palladium!! That's real OG gaming right there.
@@Jack-gs6sd They are still making new books for all of their game lines, Rifts is my favorite RPG ever honestly.
These are great insights, and I’m totally on the same page. I would add that we’ll see many popular zines (or collections) become small box games containing a bunch of extras. These will be of particular appeal to retailers.
You mean TTRPG zines? Never used them. Probably should. I love zones.
I GOTTA confess... I don't see the appeal of boxes!!!! I get it for the stores, but man I hate every box I own, even the beautiful shit like Mothership.
I am playing TTRPGs for the first time consistently for the first time now and it's hard to keep a group together.
I instantly have tons of questions. How big is the group? Are these people you know IRL? How long are your campaigns, and what kinds of games have you experimented with?
@@Jack-gs6sd 13th Age. It keeps fluctuating between 3 and 4 players.
@@Jack-gs6sd And yes, it's IRL, in a tabletop "tavern" place here in Virginia (don't want to dox myself accidentally)
@@Jack-gs6sd So far, we've experimented with 13th Age, thoug we've plaeyd some board games. The campaign is long so that may have something to do with it. It's the initial campaign, the current one, for first edition of 13th Age, not the upcoming 2nd edition
Edit: Sorry for multiple comments, I thought I lost the other two LMAO
It would be interesting to see a Venn Diagram for how things overlap, and if there would be any difference if you make on each for play-style and system.
It's cyclical. In 1982, we had a split. Half of the D&D group discovered Call of Cthulhu, a great game, they left to play that, saying D&D was a bad game. I recall, when Vampire the Masquerade came out, it was the new cool game, again half the D&D left to play that. D&D 4e did the same with the Pathfinder split. There are always players leaving for RPGs that are better suited for them. The OGL fiasco is one variation of that phenomenon. But when the dust settles, D&D is still there and remains the locomotive of the industry. Many try it, many stay, some quit RPGs, and others move to other games.
Disclaimer, I don't play D&D. I prefer Dragonbane.
I think you are spot on with all of these points...or maybe you've just laid out all of the specific things that I am currently most interested in myself and I'm just biased lol. In either case, great video.
EDIT: Holy cow you're the Scene Kit guy!! I wrote my initial comment above about 75% of the way through the video and I was *specifically* thinking about this great new thing I'd come across called the "Scene Kit" and then you pulled it into frame at the end of the video! I haven't had the opportunity to use the Scene Kit yet, but I think what you're trying to do with it is visionary. Subscribed.
Scene Kit?
Oh thanks, that really means a LOT a lot. I can't wait to get that project out in front of the public more ^_^
I don’t know for sure if these are the trends that are going to come-but damn, I’m excited for implementing most of these
I agree with the communal world building. I think its really fun since everyone gets invested in the creation and from them there the game itself. Seriously world building alone is a fun exercise for sure.
Wow...great video. Just stumbled on this channel, and I've felt some of these trends as well on the opposite coast.
Great video! I'm interested to see where this trend toward narrative mechanics goes. As an "actor" style GM that often plays with more "game" style players, this could be a way to combine our preferences.
I mean, this is exactly why I'm interested in this stuff!! I realize that I have an education in dramatic improv, but that everyday players don't know how to like, just come up with rich plot arcs off the top of their head, even if rich plot arcs and deep character drama is exactly what they might want. We need procedures to mak ethis kind of stuff successful!
Interesting convo, some points here.
1. Siloing/Balkanization: It is happening, but has happened many times before in the mid 80's, early 90s, early and late 00's, and now again in the 2020's.
2. As a New Jerseyan, I feel the issues in NYC with difficulty in gamer spaces getting together. Especially given the population size, there is not much a community.
3. What I see is groups being formed around Organized Play Campaigns, several are launching this year some are system neutral.
You're right about this thing happening in phases. You in North Jersey or South? And these Organized Play Campaigns sound sick!!
@@Jack-gs6sd Central Jersey, just south of New Brunswick
Just discovered your channel with this video. I wholeheartedly agree with what you're saying here. Keep up the good stuff.
In my town we are focusing teaching older kids and young adults to play. It's a long term investment in the hobby. We cooperate with community houses do we get free housing for all the activities. We also get financial support from both businesses and the government. And we are utilising the experienced players to GM and teach. But we also appeal to other gameculture people for crosspolininating with livers, cosplayers, computergamers, board gamers and many others.
It has become so much more than just games. It's fighting lonlyness, depression, otherness, boredom and social isolation.
That sounds like an amazing project!
The big swing is I think community based game centres like a actual gym where you pay a membership fee and then join a group, run at the centre, board game, TTRPG or whatever. The other is the actual shift away from D&D5E or big Corporate products that lock you in. Rather purchasing a more boxed set with expansion ideas. Like awaken realms allows more flexibility and variety.
Lately we've seen a little more D&D integration with public spaces. Both the biggest bar and the biggest community center within of mile of me in the next week are having D&D events!
I can't hear an accent Jack, ya sound upper Mid-Hudson/ Catskills. "Complete Strategist" is a great shop, I couldn't imagine gaming there though. I never got into 5e. I read the core books & thought it looked good but my group wanted to stick with our modified 3e/3.5/PF1e/D20 rules. I can see why they did but I would've given 5e a try. I only run home brewed settings since the '80s & in my experience players will always add to the world. We've been running games in the same world for over a decade now. The setting before that lasted 8 years. Sometimes players will misinterpret my descriptions, make assumptions or connections I didn't think of & come up w/ something way cooler, so I'll just go w/ it as if that's what I intended the whole time.
Hahaha, Mid-Hudson/Catskills!!!! Very very very impressive, my family's roots are in the Helderberg Mountains, though I've always lived more like the city. I'm in the Hudson Valley and Harriman all the time though!! If you were really guessing out of thin air, that's the most A+ Geoguesser accent shit I've ever seen.
@@Jack-gs6sd Thanks. My 2nd guess was you were from the Capitol Region & spent a lot of time in Queens but then ya said you were in Brooklyn @ the end so that guess was out. I'm from Saugerties/Woodstock (exit 20) in Ulster county & as the Northern most point of the Greater NYC area it's kinda a crossroads for accents. I can discern the Harriman,/Orange county accent though it takes me awhile, it's nearly identical but there are some subtle differences. I think I may have a natural knack for it. I once guessed a TH-camr was from Goshen in Orange county but he was from Montgomery in Orange county the next town over from Goshen. In his case & yours it was more about not hearing an accent than hearing one. Cheers!
I feel like I might be the odd one out who find themselve between both type of playstyle. Let me explain: I enjoy both the mechanical side and the roleplay aspect of the hobby, but in different formats. When it comes to narrative or roleplay-heavy campaigns, I prefer play-by-post (PBP) games. This format allows me to really dive into the character I've created and bring them to life in the way I imagine. On the other hand, if the focus is on combat and mechanics, I prefer voice-based play. (For context, I've never played a TTRPG in person.)
Ooooo, pbp story-driven games! I've heard that too, particularly around mechanics where one or two rolls can dictate the fate of an entire scene, like most PbtA games. I know a guy who absolutely loved playing Night Witches play-by-post.
@@Jack-gs6sd pbp means playing by writting
@@_elifilen I know!
Honestly, even seeing the D&D Next playtests told me 5e would get traction, but not be my ideal. That is why I started trying to find out how I wanted to build my own system, a modular universal toolbox.
Whether or not these will be trends we'll see, listening to someone in tune enough with the scene having reflections on what could be is a great inspiration. Here's hoping people find what they like and the hobby blooms from there. A lot of the games out there now are dry runs for future modularity. I guess the flip side of that, though, is that there only needs to be one mechanism that spoils it for people, but writers need to package a game to sell people on it (even if it's free), so they sort of have to commit to something. Maybe the 20XX thing is the way to go, but it's also pretty spread out, and a huge tome of modules might work from someone who isn't committed to a specific iteration (like GURPS but you point buy your way to a system you agree to play). The refinements will take a while, I think people are still trying to figure out what has the best quality of the particular flavor they think they prefer, but maybe we'll get there. Thanks for this, glad I clicked on it
Thanks so much for your appreciation and your comment :) You're right, I think we're going to see a lot of design experimentation and culture shift before we're comfortable with the level of modularity coming down the pike!
One True Wayism has been a tabletop RPG problem for at least the last two decades. "How dare someone enjoy, or think about, a *gaming hobby* in a way that's different than I do!" has been said, over and over again, not just with sincerity, but with fervour. And it is a blatantly ludicrous statement to make, akin to saying "Tomatoes on a cheese sandwich are wrong!" as anything other than a joke. BTW, I hate tomatoes you tomato and cheese sandwich weirdos. (flame my bad taste in not liking tomatoes in the comments below)
Hey jack! Awesome video. I’m particularly excited about the communal world building that you mentioned. What is the link to the discord where you got world wizard? I’d love to play test it as well and build a world with my group.
Thanks!
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF.
I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
Holy shit everything you said in this video is a banger. You’ve got a permanent subscriber and an active watcher from now on. The audio quality was great, editing was great liked the words on the screen that would show when you were explaining certain sections.
Localization: Pre-Internet, my gaming was all in homes or dorm rooms. While I enjoy gaming at a store, I really didn't start that until many years later in the 2000s. Right now, gaming at home would suck as my apt complex has paid visitor spaces and starts ticketing cars as early as 6 pm.
This video earned the subscribe
Ayyyyy well I'm all over the place so I hope I keep you feeling refreshed and entertained, even when the folks make me do another fucking craft video or somthing.
@@Jack-gs6sd I think you kind of want to do the craft video. It was the B-plot of the video. You mentioned crafting more than you mentioned Mancala Beads.
@@Jack-gs6sdI also subscribed.
SO insightful and filled with good ideas thank you for this. You've ma de a new subscriber :D
There's a system called Dark Heresy (2 editions of it) with the newest version of it called Imperium Maledictum that is actually, straight up Warhammer 40k Inquisition. Currently have a 70 session deep campaign in the latter, only the base book out right now but a planned something like 12 more books.
For the last 10 years I have gamed almost every week online with the same friends. We started streaming our sessions and even got some decent success out of it. But I am tired now. Oh so effin' tired. I am not in college anymore, I am starting a family. Everything is changing and I didn't want this gaming group to change. But the streaming channel eventually became more important than anything else, almost a second job. And I got tired of it. Saying goodbye wasn't even that painful. Their attitude wasn't "we game to have fun and keep the channel up to have a schedule" anymore. I was just a dead weight to them, and I was treated as such. But I don't want to stop gaming. I am currently looking for new friends in my area to play in person. Internet gaming is dead for me.
Oh man, I'm rooting for you!!
Another thing. Currently working on getting story beats in my game (by which I mean tricking my players into making good characters)
I'm attempting to make antagonists who are more powerful if they have their 'resolve' intact, which is like their core belief, typically tied to the plot.
The more players manage to push them back on their commitment to their beliefs, the weaker they get.
Still have to beat em up most of the time tho.
That’s super cool
Haha hell yeah, link me when there's more to see!!
I think this is correct within a certain subset of the industry and that you are severely overestimating the proportion of the hobby that describes.
D&D-especially 5e-is the biggest to a large degree because it facilitates different styles of engagement in succession or tandem, enabling it to appeal to a wide array of player tastes and desires in the same game. This directly proceeds from its mechanically divergent subsystems. While it largely accomplishes each of these minimally adequately at best, adequate is a lot more than none. By contrast, most other systems are either very tight (Pathfinder) or homogeneous with differences in being largely in the narrative with mechanical differences largely being nominal. The trade-off of specialization is loss of generalization, and that means narrower appeal.
Narrower appeal is an issue because ttrpgs are tiny. The playerbase is miniscule compared that of video games while requiring usually 4+ people seeking the same or reconcilable engagements/experiences on the same platform/location, at the same time, using the same system, at comparable skill level. If you do not happen to live in a dense urban environment with high accessibility to lots of players, that is very difficult to set up. 5e mitigates that issue by enabling a wider range of divergence in engagement/experience to play together and lowering the skill floor by how much is carried by the DM.
I can some of these trends taking off in the locales you described. Those are a subset of the playerbase, though, and I do not see those trends taking off much more than they already have been outside of those contexts. I especially do not think collaborative worldbuilding is going to go mainstream; the majority of players are far too passive, simulationist, or game-leaning for that to ever be anything more than significant minority. I can see the modularity part potentially taking off, though; that is the approach to my WIP system, certainly.
"D&D-especially 5e-is the biggest to a large degree because it facilitates different styles of engagement in succession or tandem, enabling it to appeal to a wide array of player tastes and desires in the same game. This directly proceeds from its mechanically divergent subsystems."
Yeah look, I just don't think this is true at all.
Like, what mechanically divergent subsystems are you talking about here? D&D 5e is basically a gridded combat system, plus the most rhudimentary skill system ever devised, and almost nothing else to hold on to.
I think a lot of people think that D&D is popular because it's got something for everyone, but I just profoundly think this is upside down and backwards. And I say this as someone with a profound love and respect for (and years of experience with) D&D 5e!
Hi, I've spent months developing a non-TTRPG game only to discover that I find the communities too toxic and I'd rather pivot to supporting the TTRPG scene. From that perspective, my "game" would act as a modular character creation and development system, but not a world- or story- builder. So I'm looking for people to work with to either flesh it out into a game or set it up to work along with other existing systems. But, the last time I asked about this, I was told that I need to be a long-standing member of a TTRPG group in order to be taken seriously. As this was a side project for me, I don't have those contacts and I may never reach that level of involvement.
Does anyone know of a group willing to hear outside ideas and maybe start working on a project with someone who didn't "grow up" in their world? Or should I take my ideas elsewhere?
I am not sure if the in person games will jump back. There was a serious hit since Covid to both ttrpg and board games. I recently was looking in meetup and it is still pretty dead in my area ( pre COVID has a group every night.) there are a few many miles away so in that part I don’t see it bouncing back to pre COVID levels. I do think the splintering of the gaming community is definitely happening. The whole dnd gaming licensing thing set a fire under alot of publishers and gamers and I’ve never seen so many options for different games. It’s a great thing. I do think dnd will continue to fall and they will videogame the product more and more till it looks more like fortnight then dnd. This will give others in the hobby to pick up the slack and I predict in maybe 5 years people in this hobby will be playing a variant of dnd and dnd will Appel to a completely different market of gamers as it will become more like heroclix online where getting cool looking avatars loot and effects in 3d videogame dnd will be more important then the story and gameplay.
Are you selling that scene kit or is it available because I'd love ot use/look it over
I will be, but not yet!! Right now, what you see on the blog is what I've got, but I would love to show off more soon. If you want to give it a try when it's ready, I recommend either subscribing here on TH-cam or, better yet, "follow" me or something on itch.io where I publish new things, then you really will only get a very rare email telling you when I've published something new! I can't wait to show more people!!
@Jack-gs6sd will do, greatly appreciated.
I have a couple of questions about the collabrative world building section of the video. As someone who really wants to get into this type of game to help build my dnd worlds and make them feel more real, what other games than the ones you have listed here have you played? Also where did you get your hands on the hex map you have and the game "World Wizard" cause this seems like the exact game I would want to try for my play group. Lastly if you haven't checked out a game called "Beak Feather and Bone" you should try it out. It has you take on the role of a faction where you pick buildings on a map and create what that building was used for.
Oh man, there's a lot! I think it deserves its own video. It depends on what you're trying to make, I feel like there are several city-builders like 'i'm sorry did you say street magic,' there are the Ben Robbins/Lame Mage collection of games which are good for builidng Factions, Timelines, Families, Civilizations, Histories. I like the Freebooters on the Frontier 2e supplements, those have a lot of region-builders in the spirit of Perilous Wilds (you can find those supplements in the same Discord as Worldwizard).
I should make a video about all of this.
I love Beak, Feather & Bone, but I haven't gotten a chance to run it yet (a similar game is 'Grasping Nettles'). As for Worldwizard, I pinned a comment with instructions on how to hunt the PDF down.
I kinda wanna try worldwizard, any idea when it might come out?
I wouldn't mind joining.
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF.
I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
@@comradestannis see above
@@Jack-gs6sd thnx!
Is there anywhere to follow world wizard?
+
Yeah for sure!! I'll probably blog a ton about it when it's out, but you could probably get the playtest right now for free. My instructions would simply be: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF.
The game is deceptively simple but holy shit does it sing on the table.
See prior comment :)
Where can we get world wozard at?
Wondering too.
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF.
I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
@@comradestannis see above
I guess you missed the Forge. Wasn't my cup of tea (I found the mechanics got in the way of the fun for me), but you should totally check out Hamlet's Hit Points, 1,001 Nights, and Troll Babe.
I mean I wans't ON the forge but I know what was there. I know those games and books!
Do you think I can get my hands on Worldwizard ? Or do you have an idea about when it's gonna come out ?
No idea when it comes out, but you can probably get it for free in no time if you have Discord. Here are the instructions I gave someone else: "My instructions would simply be: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF.
The game is deceptively simple but holy shit does it sing on the table."
I have, unfortunately, no interest in Slugblaster. I cannot relate to any of its themes. But the help with character arcs does sound intriguing. I'll be interested to see more about your scene crafting project.
In a very tiny town where we had about 6 players, the first Diablo killed the ttrpg gaming.
Bro, you were cooking with that first one
Hol up
Let him cook some more
man i hope!!!
I think these are great predictions! D&D has been the dominant system because it's so versatile for different play styles. Do you think we'll see a dominant set of systems, one for each play style?
Dominant systems? No no, I don't think so at all, I think that's what modularity has going for it. We need less giant tentpole games that people feel they have to conform to, and more flexibility so that each table has something that works without lots of on-ramping.
How do I join the discord for worldwizard and freebooters on the frontier? I've searched for like half an hour and can't find anything with those games or lampback and brimstone they gotta work on their seo or something
Same, Worldwizard sounds awesome but I can't find any discord link or anything
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF.
I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
@@adamhelesic4279 see above
I know you prefaced at the beginning these aren't really new but I don't think most players realize just how early the split playstyle was. Barely after D&D got rolling you had a fundemental division in game philosophy between the more basic "kriegspiel" style B/X which leaned on adjudication outside the rules and AD&D that was much more rigid and codified setting player expectations but also locking the game in more with its mechanics. Neither of these are the "correct" way to play but that schism STILL exists in the rpg community. And it's not just really tactical Pathfinder players versus art punk zine OSR types, you can look at a lot of games and and see which side of the coin they lean towards in how they address different playing preferences.
Personally I enjoying owning and running hundreds of different games and systems but I'm blessed with having a big pool of people to play with. I just like seeing how different games use mechanics not just to cover basic gameplay but to specifically drive a theme or tone of the game. For example I love the Mouse Guard RPG for how it's mechanics of seasons create an organic living world that the party walks through while also demonstrating a very real passage of time and change. But I also don't blame anyone who plays something approachable like 5e just for better access, it does a good job at that.
It's funny that you mentioned the Clinton Administration. That's about the time when I, as an elementary schooler that was reading a ton of Choose-Your-Own-Adventure books and loving GTA more than any other game because of its freedom, wished that TTRPGs were a thing 😂. I was very much enamored with medieval fantasy above any other genre (as I still maintain).
That being said, I don't really know what kind of player I am. I am a player who wants to portray a character in accordance with whom he or she is via 3rd person actions rather than LARPing (as seems to be increasingly popular via The Matt Mercer Effect).
"portray a character in accordance with whom he or she is via 3rd person actions rather than LARPing"
Well I'm glad you subbed then because I have an absolute fuckload to say about this.
I had not seen In This World yet. Immediately went to look it up.
Yeah it's sick and you can play it with anyone in no time. It's also one of those crystal-clear game texts that does exactly what it says on the package with no learning curve.
I have a group in my city where we do LARPS and TTRPG one shots and we do all of them in our citie's youth centre
I loved your points about community. I'm gonna go farther and say Discord is not a community. Its a (bad) communication platform. The rot runs deep.
Interesting thoughts. Subscribed.
Where can I find games in NYC? I only found the Brooklyn strategist thus far, but that's AL, I suppose
@@arthurmarques6191 message me on Substack or something, I’ll get you to tbe Brooklyn OSR Discord (I just don’t wanna post tbe link here). From there we can chat!
Definitely subscribed
Somehow I'm all of those gamer types.
This used to be me but I’m worn OUT on tactical combat.
On the topic of modularity, have you checked out Dungeoncrawl 2e at all? It's a setting/narrative engine that is both a (kind of narrow) world-building tool (that functions with The Big Idea-style adverb+noun cards ❤) AS WELL AS a solo play oracle.
It has a lightweight system in the box, but it's deliberately designed to be modular enough to swap in any mechanics as long as you determine what constitues a minor bonus/penalty to rolls, and what constitutes minor damage (from environmental hazards and such).
So you could totally take like, 7th Sea, the trad-iest of trad games from the 90s, and use it to fuel a solo play swashbuckling adventure in the Underdark or Fallen London. My mind is blown.
No it's sounds sick, but I can't findit at all! hit me with the link
Aaron Reed
Glad there algorithms brought me here.
I mean I agree with the localized communities! In Los Angeles, I have specifically started a West Marches group for the Video Game Industry and Designers! It's happening as you speak.
Yes keep going!
I want a TTRPG that is narrative as heck, but mechanical enough that dice rolls don't feel arbitrary (or hold the narrative hostage.) Maybe 2025 will be the year.
The best thing is to make the TTRPG you want.
@@WilliamMcAdams I’m sure the system exists for you! Have you played with FitD games yet like Blades and it’s cousins? I just started GMing that stuff and boy oh boy does it feel crunchy
Cortex Prime, Fate (Accelerated, Condensed, Core), 7th Sea 2nd Edition, Powered by the Apocalypse (PbtA), Blades/Forged in the Dark... these games inherently lean away from arbitrary action rolls.
That said... You will also need to find a group that adheres to that same belief about dice rolls. (While the rules for 7th Sea 2nd Edition effectively prevents the following from happening, it still applies to most other systems.) If your DM/GM/Narrator is of the belief that every action needs to be checked for success or failure, you can end up rolling arbitrarily for everything no matter the system. But by the same token if you have a more laisses faire DM/GM/Narrator every action might become a handwave effort. Your level of granularity is dependent on talking with your group and making sure you're all on the same page. It's less a system detail and more a playgroup detail.
(Except in 7th Sea 2nd Edition, where it really is a system issue. You're only gonna roll dice one per action round with that game no matter what, it's convoluted but an amazing system once you experience it.)
(Also, never played it, my playgroup has never been open to playing it. They honestly don't get the approach-based action economy.)
Check out ZWEIHANDER: Grim & Perilous. d100 system. The mechanics are rather intuitive, simple percent to succeed, but the addition of Peril and Corruption as mechanics that simulate stress and morality makes rolling the dice meaningful.
Powered by the Apocalypse games like Dungeon World, Monster of the Week, Blades in the Dark are really fun.
Hi, where can we find this Worldwizzard guide?
Check the pinned comment!
I’d love a link to the world wizard document
The instructions I gave someone else: Go to Lutes' most recent Kickstarter campaign for The Perilous Void, look in the backer updates for his Discord link, and the Discord has a channel for Worldwizard where you can just get the PDF.
I've already seen people show up in that Discord for the video! Comment again if these instructions don't work :)
best line, "I'm on bluesky but I shouldn't it's like twitter" LOVE IT! Great discourse with brilliant predictions.
I mean what are we all doing over there
@ 😂
Con: It's like Twitter
Pro: It's not Twitter
world wizard sounds hella cool
also fabula ultima does a great job of having the shared world building being the in book default, that aids the game in letting players spend fabula points to influence truths and possible allies in the world to help the party, rather then always spending them on rerolls in combat.
Good vid. Thanks for flagging the Worldwizard game.
Heck ICRPG has “story architecture” flow charts
Nice to see 2400 getting some attention.
Great observations.
Where does one playtest that World Wizard stuff?
Check the pinned comment!
@Jack-gs6sd Oh I wasn't paying attention.. TY!
Speaking if modularity...may I wish my ststem was closer to complete.
Show me...
Oof, don't I know it
I mean... Yeah sure, feels right to me. 😃
24:35 Didn't read Slugblasters but hadn't 7th Sea have similar approach to character advancement?
14:27 My brother, so you say when Steve Jackson was designing GURPS should have let go of Verisimilitude/Realism and should instead focused on Narrative Gameplay Structures?
Well, mostly wrong. "Modularity" sounds like a direct synonym to a regular homebrewing everyone practice from the very beggining of the hobbie. Communal worldbuilding robs players from the world exploration just as asking players to describe the world instead of a GM. It can be fun for a certain group, but world-building is not role-playing. And story structure can be put in the game just because a GM knows how storytelling work. If you force it in a certain way, it will be a form of a nu-railroading. Just like in joking videos about a GM who gives players scripts to read from. Of course all of these can be sold as revolutionary by grifters.
1. Modularity and homebrewing are… just such vastly different things. You should do some research!
2. All this ranting about communal worldbuilding just smacks if “I haven’t done that, because it’s impossible, except for all of the people doing this and thriving, who are the Wrong Ones.”
3. Much of the rest of this is incoherent, but not everyone experiences this stuff through the lens of joy and exploration. That’s fine!
I love boardgames and play some very rule heavy ones. But I can't stand it when all that slows down and gets in the way of my roleplaying
I'm starting to get into board gaming a little bit, about to sit down and play Arcs in the next 30 minutes or so. What kind of stuff do you like?
Kind of agree but don't really like the games to come if you're right (I'm a traditionnal gamer forever) and also there's game like this since fifteen years in the indie/forgian scene) like On mighty thews, perfect unrevised, ben lehman's polaris (i try thos and have fun even if it's not what i want to play now)
Look, I think it's still going to remain a great time to be a trad gamer, having been one most of my life. Do you count ongoing updates to systems like Traveller, Call of Cthulhu, and what Free League gets up to? I really think this scene is going to remain a pillar, I think that stuff is going nowhere, and will always have a lot of community around it, even if I've grown a little weary of it over time.
@@Jack-gs6sd Not a big fan of free league but yeah the last Call of cthulhu is great. It's almost as big as DND here in France, I like good scenario and simple streamlined rules that doesn't block the ungoing story as opposed to the kind of "bordgame like" system that seems trendy now. But there's room for everyone !
Watching this from 1132 about to let you know if you were right.
I don't see here much new predictions. D&D was supposed to be dead and all the cool kids were supposed to play Burning Wheel lol
Designing for specific preferences was the thing for designer who bought into GNS theory. Well, turns out majority of players groups are constructed of friends with varied preferences. Game that have have more broad appeal and bridges gap simply hits the table more often.
Shared world-building was supposed to big thing since Fate. And yet most popular systems are still the one that come with pre-made world.
Modularity - that one not even a trend, games like GURPS and Cortex Prime are a thing. ADnD had more optional rules than actual necessary ones.
Story making? Bubblegum Crisis source book: "Beat Chart". /Mic drop!
Oooo, sounds great!! Is that in the core book? I just paged through and couldn't find it...
@Jack-gs6sd yeah. In the section on "how to run a game". I learned that the authors worked in Television and wrote a variation of used to be a bit of a secret - how TV and movie stories were written quickly.
These authors used their previous knowledge and wrote it in to the BC core book.
Whip up stories in minutes.
Procedures for structuring stories... So you're basically saying 7th Sea 2nd Edition... Every character's advancement is hinged on their own plot points... The group narrative has it's own plot points... the entire game is designed around personal will influencing fate.
And when you pulled out that clipboard full of scene setup flowcharts and started talking about setting the scene and everything, I immediately smacked my forehead and shouted out loud, "FATE! He's describing FATE!" And yeah, I'm all for these trends. Love these aspects of game play, design, and collaboration.
I agree that the play communities are going to get more and more niche with a lot of splinter factions breaking off as they discover their own playstyle doesn't match the homogenized melting pot of TTRPG and instead leans more heavily into things like Narrative Gameplay, Collaborative Gameplay, Tactical Gameplay, and so forth. I think its going to be spurred forward even more by the drive of certain companies to further water down creativity while miking the community at large for every penny they can without contributing value to the pot.
I look forward to more thoughts on these topics. This has been my first time encountering your channel... it will not be my last. liked, subscribed. Thank you! The hobby needs more insight from people in general, but specifically well thought out insights like these.
ALSO! Holy Moly! You're the 'zorro-mask' talk show guy! I thought I was already following and subscribed to you. Something went wrong there. Error corrected!
@VarchildMarquee Who?
Imaging making an end of year video instead of a UDT video. (😉 )
Actually, let me be a little more constructive: I'm the usual player over on @inclinedeclinegaming2541 and for my in-person games, I sometimes (not as often as I want) run my games using UDT. I'd like to collaborate and discuss UDT or other presentation styles if you're interested in doing something together, because I have lots of opinions I want to share.
I literally bought the supplies for the video and everything. Someone got me a tripod for Christmas! Never fear!
@@Jack-gs6sd I think my comment is getting ate up. I'm @inclinedeclinegaming2541 and have a ton to say on the subject, I'd like to talk about it with you.