@@outrohealth and great kudos to Mark Horowitz for his bravery in going public about his own experience and getting the Royal College of Psychiatrists in the UK to accept the reality of psychotropic withdrawal and getting 'the De -Prescribing Guidelines' into print.
I found survivingantidepressants when I was off Effexor for 3 months. I’d been on 150 mg for 18 years. “Tapered” to 0 in 3 month. Jumped off at 37.5 20 months later and I’m still managing Outro was helpful when it was in Canada, just the counselling aspect because I was too afraid to reinstate
Yeah I’m almost 4 years off antidepressant antipsychotics and benzos. This has sucked so bad. I just want my life to be to where I’m not trapped in my mind of anxiety I now have with akathisia. Doctor told me I’d never have quality of life again and she was stopping all medication and no longer working with me because i refused to be on several antipsychotics at once since everything she was putting me on was making me suicidal. All of this because my GP stopped clonopazam I took for 8 years for insomnia everyday at 1mg. Then I got polly drugged back on high dose of benzo
We're so sorry to hear about this. It's heart breaking when a system created to help and heal does the opposite. If you choose to taper off any medication again, make sure you do so with the guidance of health care providers who are aware of safe tapering protocols.
Hi there, thanks for your comment and willingness to help! We will make a public announcement if/when we're looking for volunteers. In the meantime we wish you a safe and successful taper.
I did a disaster taper. Dr almost Cold Turkeyed after 18 years of zoloft. Its been severe. Brain injury/Neurological injury in my case. And iatrogenic injury. Tried reinstate 6 months off, got worse. The pressure tightness and pain in my brain neck spine body is still extreme 15 months off. Even if just walking the symptoms getting worse afterwards. Is there a chance to heal in severe cases?
Based on research, severe antidepressant withdrawal symptoms, including neurological symptoms, can persist for months or years in some cases. However, the brain and body generally have the capacity to heal over time, even in severe cases, though the timeline varies significantly between individuals. A few key points from the scientific literature: 1. The brain takes time to readjust after long-term antidepressant use, with imaging studies showing receptor changes can persist for months to years after discontinuation. 2. Failed reinstatement attempts are not uncommon in severe withdrawal cases, as the brain may have already begun adapting to the absence of the medication. 3. Physical symptoms like pressure, pain, and neurological effects can be part of the withdrawal syndrome and may take extended time to resolve, especially after long-term use. The research suggests focusing on: - Minimizing additional stress on your system - Gentle physical activity within tolerance limits - Maintaining good sleep hygiene - Getting appropriate medical support - Being patient with the recovery process We would strongly recommend working with a doctor who is knowledgeable about severe antidepressant withdrawal to monitor your symptoms and provide appropriate support. The papers by Horowitz et al. discuss how severe withdrawal cases often require specialized medical attention.
Hi, Peter. Thanks for asking. Based research papers, yes - obsessive thoughts can definitely be part of protracted antidepressant withdrawal. The Moncrieff et al. 2024 study specifically documented psychological symptoms during withdrawal, including various cognitive symptoms, anxiety, and intrusive thoughts. Since withdrawal can affect both emotional and cognitive functioning as the brain readjusts, obsessive thinking patterns are a documented part of the withdrawal syndrome for some people. If you're experiencing this, you're not alone - but you may want to discuss it with your healthcare provider to get appropriate support.
I would like to see some statistics finally. Done by uninvolved party. My doctor claims she has never seen anything like my case in her 40 years long carrier. How is it possible? She believes me, so I guess she would believe other patients. Because withdrawal feels damn different than anything people would normally describe as anxiety.
They probably have seen it many times. It's not a case of uncommon presentations but more a case of misdiagnosis and failure of historical documentation and misreporting. Much the same way that lung complaints from smoking were dismissed many years ago to appease the tobacco industry.
That's such an important point about how withdrawal feels distinctly different from regular anxiety! Recent research shows that withdrawal creates unique symptoms that can be clearly distinguished from underlying conditions. The research shows your experience is actually super common - about half of people experience withdrawal symptoms, and many report them as severe. Unfortunately, there's often a big gap between what the research shows and what doctors see in practice, partly because these symptoms might not get recognized as withdrawal, especially when they appear months later. You're absolutely right about needing more independent research. While we do have quite a bit of data now showing how common and severe withdrawal can be, we definitely need more studies by independent researchers to fully capture people's real-world experiences. Your doctor's response is actually pretty typical - doctors often don't recognize withdrawal symptoms, which is why we urgently need better education for healthcare providers about what antidepressant withdrawal really looks and feels like.
@ Thank you for your response. It means a lot for me, to be believed and not dismissed as sensitive or even worse not to be believed because I have a mental health issue, which was just mild anxiety before all of this.
We hear you - antidepressant withdrawal can be absolutely brutal. Recent research shows many people experience severe impacts on their work, relationships, and basic daily functioning that can last months or even years. It's way more than just "difficult" - it can feel completely life-shattering. But there's hope: We now understand much better how to taper these medications safely using newer approaches like hyperbolic tapering, which means making smaller and smaller reductions as you get to lower doses. It's like carefully climbing down a steep cliff rather than jumping off it. Studies show people who couldn't stop before are succeeding with these gentler methods. You're not alone in this. There are others who've been through it and peer support communities that get it. While withdrawal can feel endless when you're in it, your brain and body can heal with the right support and approach.
Two pioneers! Thank you both for your work. ❤
Our pleasure!
Thank you 🙏
You’re welcome 😊
Thank you, Mark and Alto
@@outrohealth Can I find out if there is a book "guide to the abolition of psychiatric drugs" in Russian?
Glad to see Adele Framer is still in the picture
Yup, she's an Outro advisor :)
@@outrohealth and great kudos to Mark Horowitz for his bravery in going public about his own experience and getting the Royal College of Psychiatrists in the UK to accept the reality of psychotropic withdrawal and getting 'the De -Prescribing Guidelines' into print.
I found survivingantidepressants when I was off Effexor for 3 months. I’d been on 150 mg for 18 years. “Tapered” to 0 in 3 month. Jumped off at 37.5 20 months later and I’m still managing
Outro was helpful when it was in Canada, just the counselling aspect because I was too afraid to reinstate
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Hello Mark and Alto, nice to see you guys!
Hello there!
Yeah I’m almost 4 years off antidepressant antipsychotics and benzos. This has sucked so bad. I just want my life to be to where I’m not trapped in my mind of anxiety I now have with akathisia. Doctor told me I’d never have quality of life again and she was stopping all medication and no longer working with me because i refused to be on several antipsychotics at once since everything she was putting me on was making me suicidal. All of this because my GP stopped clonopazam I took for 8 years for insomnia everyday at 1mg. Then I got polly drugged back on high dose of benzo
We're so sorry to hear about this. It's heart breaking when a system created to help and heal does the opposite. If you choose to taper off any medication again, make sure you do so with the guidance of health care providers who are aware of safe tapering protocols.
The “relapse” is absolute bogus because I was first put on Lyrica for nerve pain in my legs.
We're so sorry to hear this!
Are you guys looking for people to study that are tapering currently? I’m willing to help! Been tapering hyperbolically since August 2022.
Hi there, thanks for your comment and willingness to help! We will make a public announcement if/when we're looking for volunteers. In the meantime we wish you a safe and successful taper.
Good work. I’m one year into my taper.
I did a disaster taper. Dr almost Cold Turkeyed after 18 years of zoloft. Its been severe. Brain injury/Neurological injury in my case. And iatrogenic injury. Tried reinstate 6 months off, got worse. The pressure tightness and pain in my brain neck spine body is still extreme 15 months off. Even if just walking the symptoms getting worse afterwards. Is there a chance to heal in severe cases?
Based on research, severe antidepressant withdrawal symptoms, including neurological symptoms, can persist for months or years in some cases. However, the brain and body generally have the capacity to heal over time, even in severe cases, though the timeline varies significantly between individuals.
A few key points from the scientific literature:
1. The brain takes time to readjust after long-term antidepressant use, with imaging studies showing receptor changes can persist for months to years after discontinuation.
2. Failed reinstatement attempts are not uncommon in severe withdrawal cases, as the brain may have already begun adapting to the absence of the medication.
3. Physical symptoms like pressure, pain, and neurological effects can be part of the withdrawal syndrome and may take extended time to resolve, especially after long-term use.
The research suggests focusing on:
- Minimizing additional stress on your system
- Gentle physical activity within tolerance limits
- Maintaining good sleep hygiene
- Getting appropriate medical support
- Being patient with the recovery process
We would strongly recommend working with a doctor who is knowledgeable about severe antidepressant withdrawal to monitor your symptoms and provide appropriate support. The papers by Horowitz et al. discuss how severe withdrawal cases often require specialized medical attention.
Can obsessive thoughts be part of protracted withdrawal?
Cheers
Peter
Hi, Peter. Thanks for asking. Based research papers, yes - obsessive thoughts can definitely be part of protracted antidepressant withdrawal. The Moncrieff et al. 2024 study specifically documented psychological symptoms during withdrawal, including various cognitive symptoms, anxiety, and intrusive thoughts. Since withdrawal can affect both emotional and cognitive functioning as the brain readjusts, obsessive thinking patterns are a documented part of the withdrawal syndrome for some people. If you're experiencing this, you're not alone - but you may want to discuss it with your healthcare provider to get appropriate support.
I would like to see some statistics finally. Done by uninvolved party. My doctor claims she has never seen anything like my case in her 40 years long carrier. How is it possible? She believes me, so I guess she would believe other patients. Because withdrawal feels damn different than anything people would normally describe as anxiety.
They probably have seen it many times. It's not a case of uncommon presentations but more a case of misdiagnosis and failure of historical documentation and misreporting. Much the same way that lung complaints from smoking were dismissed many years ago to appease the tobacco industry.
That's such an important point about how withdrawal feels distinctly different from regular anxiety! Recent research shows that withdrawal creates unique symptoms that can be clearly distinguished from underlying conditions.
The research shows your experience is actually super common - about half of people experience withdrawal symptoms, and many report them as severe. Unfortunately, there's often a big gap between what the research shows and what doctors see in practice, partly because these symptoms might not get recognized as withdrawal, especially when they appear months later.
You're absolutely right about needing more independent research. While we do have quite a bit of data now showing how common and severe withdrawal can be, we definitely need more studies by independent researchers to fully capture people's real-world experiences. Your doctor's response is actually pretty typical - doctors often don't recognize withdrawal symptoms, which is why we urgently need better education for healthcare providers about what antidepressant withdrawal really looks and feels like.
@ Thank you for your response. It means a lot for me, to be believed and not dismissed as sensitive or even worse not to be believed because I have a mental health issue, which was just mild anxiety before all of this.
Difficult! So much worse than Difficult. Life ending.
We hear you - antidepressant withdrawal can be absolutely brutal. Recent research shows many people experience severe impacts on their work, relationships, and basic daily functioning that can last months or even years. It's way more than just "difficult" - it can feel completely life-shattering.
But there's hope: We now understand much better how to taper these medications safely using newer approaches like hyperbolic tapering, which means making smaller and smaller reductions as you get to lower doses. It's like carefully climbing down a steep cliff rather than jumping off it. Studies show people who couldn't stop before are succeeding with these gentler methods.
You're not alone in this. There are others who've been through it and peer support communities that get it. While withdrawal can feel endless when you're in it, your brain and body can heal with the right support and approach.
@outrohealth what makes you think that tampering is an option? Forcibly stopped when my doctor retired and no one would prescribe clonazepam again!