An incredible improvement to druid from the last playtest. This feels like a great compromise of weakening the health buffer of wild shape and instead giving them real AC and damage output in Moon. They're both a better spellcaster and better martial in flavor and uniqueness. Great work!
I'm actually really happy with a lot of the changes to druid in this playtest. Don't care much for the Primal Order, that feels like they ran out of ideas and just did what they did for the cleric. But I like the changes to Wildshape, I like the new Circle of the Sea subclass, and the Land feels better.
Maybe I'm crazy but I really like how the cleric and druid are two sides of similar flavor, but end up playing differently. It's a good way to add more choices. To me it feels like they realized everyone loves the customization the warlock gets and classes should come with more built in personalization
@@nikkothegoblin I do agree, I don't think the primal and divine order is a lazy choice, it's more a way to mark a similarity in the role these classes represent for the party
The Circle of the Sea is just a better version of the Storm Herald Barbarian, and that deeply bums me out. Otherwise I mostly agree. Primal Order / Elemental Fury is one of those mechanically necessary things, though. It is important to note that it deviates from the cleric in the Improved Elemental Fury design - Druids get additional range (300 ft!) instead of additional targets.
I find it interesting that the "circle of the moon doesn't really make sense, as the name of the wildshape subclass" resulted in "more moon stuff", instead of just a new subclass name... ("circle of (wild)life" was right there 😅😅😅)
@theonetruedonut oh I am sure it is... which makes moonbeam and Lunar magic NOT really keeping with the theme unless the moon druid lore is more like blood hunters, taking on and "mastering" lycanthropy to improve their shape-shifting abilities
@@bcj7064 How does Moonbeam and Lunar magic not look Lunar themed to you. It is not Circle of Lycanthropy it is Circle of *Moon* . The basis of this subclass is that it harnesses magical powers from the moon and *some* of those powers makes their wildshape stronger. Lycanthropy being not the only thing granted by the moon makes *more* sense now. Also the moon doesn't *give* them the ability to turn into an animal, it enhances their wildshape. Order of Lycan fits more to the lycanthropy theme, becoming a hybrid form filled with bloodlust and resisting their inner beast. Circle of moon is very different as they turn completely into animal form, have total control and fight for defending nature rather than bloodlust or revenge. They're very different thematically, the decision of leaning in more on the moon side rather than on the beast side by giving them more moon powers is very good imo
Conceptually, this is absolute perfection. I have seen nothing else so far in the playtesting that comes anywhere close to how perfect this is. I don't know if you will need to fine tune the exact mechanics, but you have landed on the exact right mindset. It is everything I could ever want for my favorite class. Thank you so much. I cannot wait to be the true druid, mage of nature, rather than being shoehorned into playing a werebear against my will.
Absolutely agree! This adds so much variety to how I play my druids aside from spell and subclass selection without deviating too much from the core fantasy of the class or without overcomplicating its mechanics. It's almost like they built in a mini skill tree into the class's main mechanics.
I mean tbf with land , spores , stars or wildfire druid with any reflavouring of the last 2 you easily could of been a super good spell caster and never shapshift
@@dean0730 No, no, no... Circle of Land in 5e is extra bad. Nearly every subclass feature is worthless; the only benefit is your circle spells, which can be good but you are locked into your 3rd level choice for the entire campaign. Up until now it has been the best we get, but it has literally always been bad. And those other subclasses have cool alternate ways to spend your wild shape, but they were clearly just the stepping stone toward fixing the base class. Why spend an entire subclass's effort trying to remold the base class when you can just fix the base class to not pigeonhole players into a wild shape focused play style?
They finally hit the mark with the Druid. Excellent job! Limiting the number of wildshape forms was a BRILLIANT move. Providing temp wildshape HP for circle of the moon was a reasonable adjustment that can't be seen as a NERF. The Druid is going to be fun to play again! Bottom line, my faith in WotC and the 2024 rules updates have been restored! Can't wait to play a Druid in 2024!
A lvl.3 Druid can now wild shape into an ant with 17AC and 9 temp HP Edit: I got some parts mixed up, but I also missed that you retain your HP, so it’ll be an ant with 17AC and ~20HP
. When you assume a Wild Shape form, you gain a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the form’s Hit Points or three times your Druid level, whichever number is LOWER
I’m a big fan of this version of druid. I know the primal order and elemental fury are a lot like cleric, but it fits the archetypes of caster and wild shape druid.
Improvements all around. I like the temp hp solution to the lack of extra hit points. Bonus action wildshape is great. The "prepared beasts" just seems like a silly rule to have since i think most people just did that anyway? Did no one ever look through the list of beasts and pick their favorites beforehand? Its not a bad rule, it just seems a little redundant
Druid player here. I'm loving this version of the druid for the most part, but Wild Shape forms shouldn't be lost on Incapacitation imo. Also, Prepared Wild Shapes should only apply to combat. Outside of combat it should still be unrestricted for versatility/RP scenarios. For Moon Druids, let Moonbeam just be a prepared spell in general, not just in Wild Shapes.
Picking circle of the moon means i want the entire monster book to choose from. Mix this iteration and the prvious one and stop putting limits on creativity
I don't like the "prepared" beast forms either, no matter what druid circle you choose. Sure, it avoids the problem of having to spontaneously look up new beast stat blocks in the middle of a session, but the proposed design goal of the new Wild Shape was that new players shouldn't have to research a hundred different creatures just to play their class. Limiting Wild Shape to just the animals you have prepared actually doesn't achieve this at all, instead it front-loads having to research all these animals as soon as you get Wild Shape, and makes you reexamine your choices every time you get a long rest to make sure you're not picking the "wrong" creatures.
So what I don't understand is why they told us that the Druid is the least played class, most likely because it requires looking through Monster stat blocks whenever you reach a level where you can turn into new shapes. So they decide to make the new version one that requires looking through Monster stat blocks potentially every long rest? Whether or not you liked the template structure (nobody ACTUALLY liked the templates themselves), that actually solved the problem. This didn't. I suspect if this is the final version, this will still be the least played class.
Riddle me this Jeremy: AC is at maximum 18 for Wildshape, which for a frontliner especially at later level is simply poor. Plate + Shield + Fighting Style Defense + Being a Warforge/Simic Hybrid and/or Artificer/Forge Cleric can easily outpace that without being limited by really bad to hit-modifiers. Keep in mind most beasts will lack 2-3 to hit behind regular characters. Since most of the forms also do not get a multiattack option that means: - Moon Druids have low/lower chance to hit. - If they hit they deal significantly less damage as they lack multiattack( Cannot use GWM/PAM/SS or alike. Nor wield any magic items like flame-tongue ) - Their Healthpool scales of a d8 contrary to most dedicated frontliners such as fighter, paladin, ranger and barbarian. Making their hitpoint total already lower. - The Temporary HP is at best 3xDruid Level, which is simply not even gaping the aforementioned HP differential - Druids AC is terrible, 18 vs potential 21-24 AC ( depending on magic items, races and class features ) - All Druids can over other martial/melees is teleport around and cast Abjuration spells in short: The moon druid is still a joke and needs a reason to play it. Moon Druids are druids that dedicated their LIFE to becoming good at being in melee and wreaking havoc with their forms. However they deal pitiful damage ( that is IF they hit ) and can take less of a pounding than a normal fighter. Hell with Paladin having now a bonus-action heal they are just play worse than a paladin in ALL aspects. If I wanted to play a caster druid, I definitely not choosing moondruid. If I want to wade into melee, moondruid is worse even than monk. So Jeremy and WotC please tell me how a supposed expert can be that bad at the thing they are supposedly good at?
That's the point of a jack-of-all-trades character. You can do everything, but are worse at said things than everybody else. That is the trade-off, that is balance.
@@unusuallycloudy The cannot do anything right though, not even close to even one thing decent. Wildshaping? Every druid can do that, you only get some slight AC bumps and a few extra Temp HP. You give up your casting ability for this, unless we talk Abjuration or moonbeam. Giving something up should always be worth it and honestly. It simply ain't, not even close. They are supposed to be exactly the melee branch of the druid, that does NOT focus on casting and yet they cannot do the thing they gave their stick up for.
Ok, finally got around to reading the UA and I love it, both the base wild shape rules (keeping the species/feat/class bonuses) and the moon changes (keeping armor) sound super fun and the land is no longer such a bland option (especially love Nature's Sanctuary). Sea is completely unexpected but welcome, it feels more unique than the homebrews I usually see for it so that surprised me :D (although the possible 5d6/round on level 3 is a no-no imo)
At 11:15 he says that at certain point your best becames a "Moon Beast" and gains Flight movement without wings. That is not in the document they released ! Am I right?
I really liked the template idea. I'm sorry that it's gone. Challenge Rating is a tool for the DM, it's wasn't designer for the players in mind and it don't really work for the players. I was really hoping that Challenge Rating would be kept out of the 2024 Players Handbook. In the 2014 Players Handbook Challenge Rating isn't even explained. You get to the Druid then read that you can Wild Shape into a Challenge Rating X or lower beast with no explanation of that Challenge Rating is. You don't have a clue then you look in the index, but nothing there. Beast is not really explained either, templates is just so much easier to understand for a new player and just a better idea overall in my opinion.
I'm glad the templates are gone. They seem like an elegant solution on paper, but you just can't encompass the variety and diversity of the animal kingdom with a handful of one-size-fits-all boxes. The only way it would have worked is if they had almost as many templates as there are animal forms, which defeats the purpose. There's a reason they gave all these beast creatures different stats and abilities in the first place, rather than just a vaguely-defined "medium beast" or whatever. I do take your point, though. Challenge Rating is a bizarre thing to reference in a character class mechanic, especially when the sample beasts in the PHB are not organized according to CR so you just kind of have to read through them all and figure out which ones are allowed. Wild Shape is a messy and complicated system, but it's also a beautiful system in how much freedom and potential you have to work with it. I don't think I like their new idea of "prepared" Wild Shape forms. I think it will prove very limiting and will kill a lot of fun and spontaneity in moment-to-moment play. There will be a lot of regret in not having prepared the "right" animal for the situations that come up, and annoyance at not being able to find enough uses for the animal forms you do have.
Very happy with this druid, the limited known wildshapes is literally the best way to solve the problem, all the druids, in general, use their 3-4 favorite shapes, that's a very good fix. I also agree on hit points becoming temporary, it comes with a lot of other advantages like retaining your skills, class futures and feats in your wild shape
Big improvement to druid. I think the templates would work better if there was a commitment to giving them some invocation esque system, where theyre using spell slots when they wildshape to make it a form with a modular bonus.
Love the idea of choosing wild-shapes, big difference of playing with 3 small cards with features instead of playing with the entire bestiary to speed up the game!
Ok, I love most everything about this version of the druid, and I really like the new moon druid. But I do have one concern (mentioned by someone I pay attention to). I'm pretty worried about their to-hit chances as the game gets further on. While early in the game, the CR monsters have pretty comparable to-hit chances to that of other classes. Late in the game, though, that drops off pretty heavily. There are two pretty easy fixes to this, that I see. The first is just, at a certain level, give the moon druid the capability of using their spell to hit as their attack roll for their beast form (perhaps as an option, they can choose either to use their own or the beast's natural to-hit in case they dumped wisdom for whatever obscure reason). This shouldn't be a damage boost at the same time, I think their damage is doing fine (from what I see anyways). The other option is just to have more beast options that have better capabilities. I would really love some higher CR versions of my favorite beasts (new kinds of wolves, bears, snakes, hawks, etc.). There should be options with good comparable to-hits at each of the CRs so that, one, I don't have to find a dinosaur to turn into (I never was really a dinosaur kid...sorry), and so that I don't start to feel bad about my transformations when I get past level 10 or 15.
Love most of this, but losing elementals makes circle of the moon scale really badly, need a way to scale the hit chance of your wild shapes. Everything else looks really good
Circle of the Moon Druid are even worse than the last revision. It's like they ruin it, just to focus on the word Moon. I choose that subclass because I wanted to transform into elementals. If they want to improve that circle add new elementals, like a lightning elemental
Where's the lunar/shared fly speed? I'm reading through the UA, but I don't see it anywhere. Just the moonlight step and shared moonlight. Edit: looks like that's the circle of the sea, instead.
A lot of things improved here. But I have to disagree with everyone else here. This is not a good direction for the druid wildshape. Templates were much much better, if they had just been done better. This current version is still going to have moon druids completely OP for a couple of levels. And then slowly fall off, until they actually just become spell casters and forget about their forms entirely at high levels. I have a druid player in my campaign, and the number 1 thing she hates the most, is she knows she really should look over her spell list, and reprepare every time a long rest is taken, and it drives her insane that she has to know all these spells. Now you want her to also know all these wild shapes? Templates was a much better option, they should just have been done proper, in fact there should just have been 1 template. Firstly with HP and AC similar to what you will get with these stat blocks. Secondly, a list of enhancements that you could pick from, such as bonus damage, bonus move speed, alternative movement modes (eg. swim, flight etc.). Classic abilities like pack tactics, and pounce. Then boom, you are there. Moon druids get to apply more enhancements at once than the regular druid. This way the team can actually work to get the scalling right, so a moon druid will not break the game at level 3, and forget that they ever used wild shapes in combat by level 15.
The main thing i dont like about the moon druid is the temp hp as temp hp cant stack and cant heal just seems a bit meh. The flight thing i think is just the teleport thing they get. I also think the damage boost should be all attacks not just 1 but that may be op not sure
Please at least bring out a druid subclass that uses an improved (not nerfed AF) template system for those that want it. Circle of the moon with a lycanthrope feel to it (rather than lunar teleporting which is not that great) would work well thematically. Make the current improved wildshape subclass wildlife as others have suggested.
after reading the Monk, I find it under whelmingbut ok! the four elements new version is missing the versitile nature that I would expect to see! if I want to hurl a bolder or ignite objects or even levitate something, where is that? the druid looks good so far but I want the Moon druid to get more options for their forms! otherwise, its seems ok!
Still some odd interactions with the druid, like being able to turn into a tiny creature with the same HP, while turning into a bear doesn't make you tankier so you might as well turn into an animal that does more damage. You'd be better off having a few standardised animals that can be flavour texted in their appearance or commit to regular druids only turning into non-combat animals. 300ft thorn whip is also broken!!! But there is a lot to like. Having commune with nature and speak with animals and constants is really good and thematic. I really like the primal strike features though, they really would fit my current druid character. Land's aid is neat, I like healing/damage attacks, nice to see that One DnD is trying to make healing more dynamic.
For me, this Druid changes was mehh... The Druid feels like the Cleric... The changes was a lazy work. The new Moon Druid is a mess. So many concepts in one subclass. The Circle of the Sea is also a mess. The power of the sea combines Thunder, Lighting, Cold and also flying abilities... Is at minimum weird.
Why are we getting rid of the elemental wildshapes? At this point make 2 subclasses circle of the moon and circle of the wild/beast. Add the moon and were theme to the moon and then go full wildshape for the beast circle. Some of the ideas are good but I really don’t like them taking the tank aspect out of wildshape. Some groups don’t have a designated tank and the moon druid was able to pickup that role.
Better from last playtest, still not enough. Many focus on the extremist cases where u break the game. I think the average druid still sucks. I like the limited number of forms but i would have wanted a bit more option like 3-5-8 instead of 3-4-5. I like wild resurgence, i don't like elemental fury or commune with nature, they should get rid of features that only give spells prepared without the option to use it one time for free on long rest, improved elemental fury is all the same, pretty underwhelming, and archdruid basically has just the longevity feature. My only hope is that the primal spell list will be so fire to balance it out
@@barcster2003 ok, moreover i don't see how giving a free cast changes much casting it once a day in a minute instead of 11, i would prefer seeing this feature going in one of two path. More like 5e feature that give u more themed spells prepared as u lv up or as a feature that gives u not a spell but a magical effect. I have the same opinion one dnd sorc and wiz, they both got 3 features where they just know spells, it's just made to fill the gaps and make it feel different from 5e base wiz and sorc eho both have few base features.
The druid has been un-murdered? Awesome. The monk has been stomped on? Why you do that? I don't play monk, but those poor lads. They were already the weakest.
I think you missed the point. If you're a lvl 5 Moon Druid with 40hp, and you wildshape into a brown bear, you will retain your 40hp and gain 15 temp hp. A brown bear with 55hp is pretty damn tanky at 5th lvl. When your hp is reduced to 15 you could wildshape into a brown bear again restoring your temp hp taking you back up to 30hp. Don't forget you can also cast healing spells (with no material comps) on yourself while wildshaped. For all intensive purposes, you could keep yourself in wildshape form for a very long time...
@@the_peoples_arm Also, you now get the AC from your character rather than having to deal with the AC of the brown bear (which was, in 5e, atrocious). So while probably not quite as tanky as the druid from 5e, you have more options with those abjuration spells and are still a pretty tough nut to crack for enemies. I like this. I'm a little more worried about their to-hit chances as the game gets further on. Most beasts don't have great to-hit chances compared to players at the levels the moon druid would get access to them, which would once again make high level play difficult in beast form. I don't need their damage increased, but an ability to use the druids spell to hit chance (or even just adding some new and better beast options) could fix this pretty succinctly.
Cool, now a moon druid, assuming it fully commit to wild shape, 1200 extra hp if they use all of their wild shape and spellslots of 5th or lower level for it instead of an unlimited number, that will solve that problem. Also wasn't the reason they put stat block to avoid having players and GMs to seek over many books, limiting the number per long rest how does it solve that ?
@@МаратГабдуллин-б5ф you do not require to go back into human forrm to use wild shape, It only takes your bonus action, and while its true that temporary HP do not stack, they still refresh, that Is still 60 HP per turno, and you are likelly to have a higher AC then what you would have before, It Is still a Nerf, but not as big as It seems
@@МаратГабдуллин-б5ф At level 10 it is 126HP vs 30 THP. They removed a Wild Shape charge per SR too, so you wont even have that 30 THP per combat. Sure, you can spend Spell Slots on it, but how many are you going to spend for this? The whole point was to be tanky while Concentrating on a Spell, not just be tanky. The damage of the forms was always poor past the early levels. Now, cantrips have been made even better (Potent Spellcasting). So this is what you get for picking Circle of the Moon: you get the priviledge of no longer doing ranged damage, you lose the ability to cast most Spells, you lose your shield, you are locked out from another subclass (like free castings of Polymorph!), and in return you get a little bit of temporary hit points. Given that hit points are now locked at 3 times Druid Level, I think we could easily look at CR forms of Druid Leve/2 instead of /3.
@@МаратГабдуллин-б5ф 1) 5e you get two back per SR. You've lost one per SR. You can spend Spell Slots on it, though. 2) Yes, which you can do more so without Circle of the Moon. This is purely restrictive by Circle of the Moon, not something you are gaining. 3) I agree IF you get something back in turn. 4) 1d8 (2d8 at very high levels) per turn is not much. When factoring in number of attacks and low accuracy of forms it works out about 2.5 to 4 DPR per turn. To take this option you can't take the cantrip option. 5) The cantrip option improves them, +5 to damage per turn before accuracy/saves. Or, you know, cast a levelled Spell since you can do that if not Wild Shaped. Scopion has +4 to hit at level 9-11 and a very low Con Save for most of its damage - the maths have been done and its dire. 6) Yep, which is called an opportunity cost. For example, Circle of the Land has a part of one single feature (so not even the whole feature) that grants a free casting of Polymorph at 7: turning into a CR7 form with all the damage and HP that entails, while the Circle of the Moon is at CR2 with 21 THP cap. The limited teleporation at higher levels is nice, but you know roughly equivalent to a level 2 Spell. 7) Sure, they would need to put some effort it.
This class is still garbage, you're providing little to no reason to choose this druid over a 2014 version. - 2014 - Unlimited Animals to choose from as long as fits your CR. One DnD 3-5 depending upon level and also must fit your CR. - 2014, Any Druid gets temp HP based on the animal they change into. One DnD, Only Circle of Moon get Temp HP and it's the lower of 3x your Druid level or the animal. - 2014, Moon Druids can heal themselves as long as they have spell slots. One DnD, you can have a medium armor AC and use abjuration spells, oh that's right, Druids don't get Shield.... As I stated before, if your goal is to drive interest for playing a new class, you're doing a horrible job at it. Not many people are going to be excited about playing a neutered version of a class when they can just play the 2014 version and enjoy all the benefits. This isn't WoW where blizzard can nerf a class and people have to just eat it up or quit the game. This is DnD. DnD's reputation has been quickly falling into the toilet, and the last thing you need is to release a "5.5 version." of DnD where most people will just avoid it since it's nothing more than a balance patch.
@@muddlewait8844 that's not the point. They can mean to nerf a druid all they wish for "balance." But at the end of the day, their end goal is to sell books, especially big Hasbro over their shoulder trying to milk and dime this franchise. And you're not going to win over an audience by saying "Hey, come buy this new book that will cost $40-60 dollars, where you can play a subpar version of the same class you know and love from the 2014 version." That is the point, which is what I said in my first sentence. They're providing little to no reason to purchase this book as a Druid fan over the 2014 version. In the end, it sounds like they're going to learn the hard way. They should know quite well what drove the success of DnD. It wasn't the gaming/mechanic aspect of it, but the narrative storytelling aspect driven by CR, Dimension 20, and more. And very few individuals from the narrative audience could care less about the "difficulty" of lower level play because they aren't trying to make Dark Souls the TTRPG. Ultimately it's going to break down to the 2014 version being the narrative version and the One DnD version being the gaming version, because it's really nothing more than a balance patch.
@@unusuallycloudy Typical Troll trying to attack a particular style of enjoyment. One of DnD's biggest raise to stardom was its power fantasy, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you were actually curious as to DnD's recent dive in popularity, you'd pay attention to their debacle regarding their gaming licenses problems. The only DM's leaving the edition are those wanting to say racist things around the table and get away with it and those wanting to punish their players with dark soul mechanics and having trouble doing so. I'm in 3 DnD campaigns right now and have never had an issue finding a DM. BTW, warframe, one of the biggest f2p games that dives headlong into the power fantasy where you kill enemies in seconds, says high. So I know this might be hard for you to understand, but not every game needs to be tailored towards the "balance" crowd.
An incredible improvement to druid from the last playtest. This feels like a great compromise of weakening the health buffer of wild shape and instead giving them real AC and damage output in Moon. They're both a better spellcaster and better martial in flavor and uniqueness. Great work!
I'm actually really happy with a lot of the changes to druid in this playtest. Don't care much for the Primal Order, that feels like they ran out of ideas and just did what they did for the cleric. But I like the changes to Wildshape, I like the new Circle of the Sea subclass, and the Land feels better.
Maybe I'm crazy but I really like how the cleric and druid are two sides of similar flavor, but end up playing differently. It's a good way to add more choices. To me it feels like they realized everyone loves the customization the warlock gets and classes should come with more built in personalization
@@nikkothegoblin I do agree, I don't think the primal and divine order is a lazy choice, it's more a way to mark a similarity in the role these classes represent for the party
Having martial weapons and medium armor is awesome though
@@nikkothegoblin I dislike just the similarites. For me was a lazy work
The Circle of the Sea is just a better version of the Storm Herald Barbarian, and that deeply bums me out. Otherwise I mostly agree. Primal Order / Elemental Fury is one of those mechanically necessary things, though. It is important to note that it deviates from the cleric in the Improved Elemental Fury design - Druids get additional range (300 ft!) instead of additional targets.
I find it interesting that the "circle of the moon doesn't really make sense, as the name of the wildshape subclass" resulted in "more moon stuff", instead of just a new subclass name... ("circle of (wild)life" was right there 😅😅😅)
I always assumed it was moon because of lycanthropy
@theonetruedonut oh I am sure it is... which makes moonbeam and Lunar magic NOT really keeping with the theme unless the moon druid lore is more like blood hunters, taking on and "mastering" lycanthropy to improve their shape-shifting abilities
It’s the moon because the moon signifies change
@@snoochieboochies2011... sure. But also, like... how does moonbeam and flying wildshapes tie into that, again?
@@bcj7064 How does Moonbeam and Lunar magic not look Lunar themed to you. It is not Circle of Lycanthropy it is Circle of *Moon* . The basis of this subclass is that it harnesses magical powers from the moon and *some* of those powers makes their wildshape stronger. Lycanthropy being not the only thing granted by the moon makes *more* sense now. Also the moon doesn't *give* them the ability to turn into an animal, it enhances their wildshape.
Order of Lycan fits more to the lycanthropy theme, becoming a hybrid form filled with bloodlust and resisting their inner beast.
Circle of moon is very different as they turn completely into animal form, have total control and fight for defending nature rather than bloodlust or revenge.
They're very different thematically, the decision of leaning in more on the moon side rather than on the beast side by giving them more moon powers is very good imo
As a druid lover, this sounds absolutely wonderful. This fixed every issue ive ever had with this class, i love it
Conceptually, this is absolute perfection. I have seen nothing else so far in the playtesting that comes anywhere close to how perfect this is. I don't know if you will need to fine tune the exact mechanics, but you have landed on the exact right mindset. It is everything I could ever want for my favorite class. Thank you so much. I cannot wait to be the true druid, mage of nature, rather than being shoehorned into playing a werebear against my will.
Absolutely agree! This adds so much variety to how I play my druids aside from spell and subclass selection without deviating too much from the core fantasy of the class or without overcomplicating its mechanics. It's almost like they built in a mini skill tree into the class's main mechanics.
I mean tbf with land , spores , stars or wildfire druid with any reflavouring of the last 2 you easily could of been a super good spell caster and never shapshift
@@dean0730 No, no, no... Circle of Land in 5e is extra bad. Nearly every subclass feature is worthless; the only benefit is your circle spells, which can be good but you are locked into your 3rd level choice for the entire campaign. Up until now it has been the best we get, but it has literally always been bad.
And those other subclasses have cool alternate ways to spend your wild shape, but they were clearly just the stepping stone toward fixing the base class. Why spend an entire subclass's effort trying to remold the base class when you can just fix the base class to not pigeonhole players into a wild shape focused play style?
I have to read the actual document but i really really love what they came up with!
Druid is my go to for a spellcaster and I love these changes. Feels like a step in the right direction.
Personally I think that having a number of known forms limits the versatility and adaptability that has always been a staple of the druid.
They finally hit the mark with the Druid. Excellent job! Limiting the number of wildshape forms was a BRILLIANT move. Providing temp wildshape HP for circle of the moon was a reasonable adjustment that can't be seen as a NERF. The Druid is going to be fun to play again! Bottom line, my faith in WotC and the 2024 rules updates have been restored! Can't wait to play a Druid in 2024!
Very good for druid continue in this way , great work great work .
A lvl.3 Druid can now wild shape into an ant with 17AC and 9 temp HP
Edit: I got some parts mixed up, but I also missed that you retain your HP, so it’ll be an ant with 17AC and ~20HP
1 hp*
. When you assume a Wild Shape form, you gain a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to the form’s Hit Points or three times your Druid level, whichever number is LOWER
Based and ant pilled
Either 3x your level or the beast’s HP, whichever is LOWER. So ant equals 1hp
Imagine being in a fight for your life against a barbarian, a wizard, and a paladin, and thinking "I really need to kill this ant."
I love the prepared forms list.
I agree for the most part, except in RP scenarios. The prepared forms should only apply to combat imo, outside of combat should be unrestricted.
I’m a big fan of this version of druid. I know the primal order and elemental fury are a lot like cleric, but it fits the archetypes of caster and wild shape druid.
These are great changes, good job guys! 🙌
Improvements all around. I like the temp hp solution to the lack of extra hit points. Bonus action wildshape is great. The "prepared beasts" just seems like a silly rule to have since i think most people just did that anyway? Did no one ever look through the list of beasts and pick their favorites beforehand? Its not a bad rule, it just seems a little redundant
Druid player here. I'm loving this version of the druid for the most part, but Wild Shape forms shouldn't be lost on Incapacitation imo. Also, Prepared Wild Shapes should only apply to combat. Outside of combat it should still be unrestricted for versatility/RP scenarios. For Moon Druids, let Moonbeam just be a prepared spell in general, not just in Wild Shapes.
Picking circle of the moon means i want the entire monster book to choose from. Mix this iteration and the prvious one and stop putting limits on creativity
I don't like the "prepared" beast forms either, no matter what druid circle you choose. Sure, it avoids the problem of having to spontaneously look up new beast stat blocks in the middle of a session, but the proposed design goal of the new Wild Shape was that new players shouldn't have to research a hundred different creatures just to play their class. Limiting Wild Shape to just the animals you have prepared actually doesn't achieve this at all, instead it front-loads having to research all these animals as soon as you get Wild Shape, and makes you reexamine your choices every time you get a long rest to make sure you're not picking the "wrong" creatures.
So what I don't understand is why they told us that the Druid is the least played class, most likely because it requires looking through Monster stat blocks whenever you reach a level where you can turn into new shapes. So they decide to make the new version one that requires looking through Monster stat blocks potentially every long rest? Whether or not you liked the template structure (nobody ACTUALLY liked the templates themselves), that actually solved the problem. This didn't. I suspect if this is the final version, this will still be the least played class.
I don't like it either, I think it should be every time you level up you can swap out a wildshape.
Riddle me this Jeremy:
AC is at maximum 18 for Wildshape, which for a frontliner especially at later level is simply poor. Plate + Shield + Fighting Style Defense + Being a Warforge/Simic Hybrid and/or Artificer/Forge Cleric can easily outpace that without being limited by really bad to hit-modifiers. Keep in mind most beasts will lack 2-3 to hit behind regular characters. Since most of the forms also do not get a multiattack option that means:
- Moon Druids have low/lower chance to hit.
- If they hit they deal significantly less damage as they lack multiattack( Cannot use GWM/PAM/SS or alike. Nor wield any magic items like flame-tongue )
- Their Healthpool scales of a d8 contrary to most dedicated frontliners such as fighter, paladin, ranger and barbarian. Making their hitpoint total already lower.
- The Temporary HP is at best 3xDruid Level, which is simply not even gaping the aforementioned HP differential
- Druids AC is terrible, 18 vs potential 21-24 AC ( depending on magic items, races and class features )
- All Druids can over other martial/melees is teleport around and cast Abjuration spells
in short: The moon druid is still a joke and needs a reason to play it. Moon Druids are druids that dedicated their LIFE to becoming good at being in melee and wreaking havoc with their forms. However they deal pitiful damage ( that is IF they hit ) and can take less of a pounding than a normal fighter. Hell with Paladin having now a bonus-action heal they are just play worse than a paladin in ALL aspects. If I wanted to play a caster druid, I definitely not choosing moondruid. If I want to wade into melee, moondruid is worse even than monk. So Jeremy and WotC please tell me how a supposed expert can be that bad at the thing they are supposedly good at?
That's the point of a jack-of-all-trades character. You can do everything, but are worse at said things than everybody else. That is the trade-off, that is balance.
@@unusuallycloudy The cannot do anything right though, not even close to even one thing decent. Wildshaping? Every druid can do that, you only get some slight AC bumps and a few extra Temp HP. You give up your casting ability for this, unless we talk Abjuration or moonbeam.
Giving something up should always be worth it and honestly. It simply ain't, not even close. They are supposed to be exactly the melee branch of the druid, that does NOT focus on casting and yet they cannot do the thing they gave their stick up for.
druids looking alot better then monk right now
Ok, finally got around to reading the UA and I love it, both the base wild shape rules (keeping the species/feat/class bonuses) and the moon changes (keeping armor) sound super fun and the land is no longer such a bland option (especially love Nature's Sanctuary). Sea is completely unexpected but welcome, it feels more unique than the homebrews I usually see for it so that surprised me :D (although the possible 5d6/round on level 3 is a no-no imo)
Did they just forget to make Moon Druids fly? They dont get that ability.
Lol you're actually right
You’ll still get flight speed beasts at level 8
@@wesglover5369 that's not the issue, the video claimed Circle of the Moon gained the ability to fly regardless of it choice of beast. It does not.
Came into the comments looking to see if anyone else noticed that.
Yeah, also noticed that feature is not showing in the pdf.
At 11:15 he says that at certain point your best becames a "Moon Beast" and gains Flight movement without wings.
That is not in the document they released !
Am I right?
I really liked the template idea. I'm sorry that it's gone. Challenge Rating is a tool for the DM, it's wasn't designer for the players in mind and it don't really work for the players. I was really hoping that Challenge Rating would be kept out of the 2024 Players Handbook. In the 2014 Players Handbook Challenge Rating isn't even explained. You get to the Druid then read that you can Wild Shape into a Challenge Rating X or lower beast with no explanation of that Challenge Rating is. You don't have a clue then you look in the index, but nothing there. Beast is not really explained either, templates is just so much easier to understand for a new player and just a better idea overall in my opinion.
Templates were a good idea very poorly implemented.
@@MikeReevesMcMillan Exactly. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. The idea was good but it needed some work.
the players hand book has always had stat blocks in the back. Its not difficult for a new player to just pick the beasts from there.
The template idea was absolute trash. In no way should a rat and a bear have the same stats
I'm glad the templates are gone. They seem like an elegant solution on paper, but you just can't encompass the variety and diversity of the animal kingdom with a handful of one-size-fits-all boxes. The only way it would have worked is if they had almost as many templates as there are animal forms, which defeats the purpose. There's a reason they gave all these beast creatures different stats and abilities in the first place, rather than just a vaguely-defined "medium beast" or whatever.
I do take your point, though. Challenge Rating is a bizarre thing to reference in a character class mechanic, especially when the sample beasts in the PHB are not organized according to CR so you just kind of have to read through them all and figure out which ones are allowed. Wild Shape is a messy and complicated system, but it's also a beautiful system in how much freedom and potential you have to work with it. I don't think I like their new idea of "prepared" Wild Shape forms. I think it will prove very limiting and will kill a lot of fun and spontaneity in moment-to-moment play. There will be a lot of regret in not having prepared the "right" animal for the situations that come up, and annoyance at not being able to find enough uses for the animal forms you do have.
I would love for there to be a plant based druid that could shape shift into plants and/or summon plant creatures
Very happy with this druid, the limited known wildshapes is literally the best way to solve the problem, all the druids, in general, use their 3-4 favorite shapes, that's a very good fix.
I also agree on hit points becoming temporary, it comes with a lot of other advantages like retaining your skills, class futures and feats in your wild shape
Big improvement to druid. I think the templates would work better if there was a commitment to giving them some invocation esque system, where theyre using spell slots when they wildshape to make it a form with a modular bonus.
Love the idea of choosing wild-shapes, big difference of playing with 3 small cards with features instead of playing with the entire bestiary to speed up the game!
Ok, I love most everything about this version of the druid, and I really like the new moon druid. But I do have one concern (mentioned by someone I pay attention to). I'm pretty worried about their to-hit chances as the game gets further on. While early in the game, the CR monsters have pretty comparable to-hit chances to that of other classes. Late in the game, though, that drops off pretty heavily.
There are two pretty easy fixes to this, that I see. The first is just, at a certain level, give the moon druid the capability of using their spell to hit as their attack roll for their beast form (perhaps as an option, they can choose either to use their own or the beast's natural to-hit in case they dumped wisdom for whatever obscure reason). This shouldn't be a damage boost at the same time, I think their damage is doing fine (from what I see anyways).
The other option is just to have more beast options that have better capabilities. I would really love some higher CR versions of my favorite beasts (new kinds of wolves, bears, snakes, hawks, etc.). There should be options with good comparable to-hits at each of the CRs so that, one, I don't have to find a dinosaur to turn into (I never was really a dinosaur kid...sorry), and so that I don't start to feel bad about my transformations when I get past level 10 or 15.
Love most of this, but losing elementals makes circle of the moon scale really badly, need a way to scale the hit chance of your wild shapes. Everything else looks really good
Circle of the Moon Druid are even worse than the last revision. It's like they ruin it, just to focus on the word Moon. I choose that subclass because I wanted to transform into elementals. If they want to improve that circle add new elementals, like a lightning elemental
Not %100 perfect IMO but very close, and actually managed to satisfy most of the community.
Where's the lunar/shared fly speed? I'm reading through the UA, but I don't see it anywhere. Just the moonlight step and shared moonlight.
Edit: looks like that's the circle of the sea, instead.
@@moonlight2870 I think he got it mixed up with the sea druid because that subclass has the exact same feature he was describing.
MOON WOLF!!!! YEAHHHH
Aren't monstrosities just sci-fi/mythical beast? Why not includes monstrosities at some point? 😢
the sea druid is porlly my favorite new druid.
Wow such great improvements
A lot of things improved here. But I have to disagree with everyone else here. This is not a good direction for the druid wildshape.
Templates were much much better, if they had just been done better.
This current version is still going to have moon druids completely OP for a couple of levels. And then slowly fall off, until they actually just become spell casters and forget about their forms entirely at high levels.
I have a druid player in my campaign, and the number 1 thing she hates the most, is she knows she really should look over her spell list, and reprepare every time a long rest is taken, and it drives her insane that she has to know all these spells. Now you want her to also know all these wild shapes?
Templates was a much better option, they should just have been done proper, in fact there should just have been 1 template. Firstly with HP and AC similar to what you will get with these stat blocks. Secondly, a list of enhancements that you could pick from, such as bonus damage, bonus move speed, alternative movement modes (eg. swim, flight etc.). Classic abilities like pack tactics, and pounce. Then boom, you are there. Moon druids get to apply more enhancements at once than the regular druid. This way the team can actually work to get the scalling right, so a moon druid will not break the game at level 3, and forget that they ever used wild shapes in combat by level 15.
land looks better but could use some way to make their spells better then normal by a small bit.
The main thing i dont like about the moon druid is the temp hp as temp hp cant stack and cant heal just seems a bit meh. The flight thing i think is just the teleport thing they get. I also think the damage boost should be all attacks not just 1 but that may be op not sure
Druids better still be good
Hoping the same
Doing a lot of research with fellow dms/players we think the Druid is in a lot better of a place now.
@@austinrobinson6342 yea i do think lots of these changes are pretty cool
Ok this druid is way better that the previous UA and there is a couple things I like here but I'm probably well still use the 5e druid
It's better than before.
Please at least bring out a druid subclass that uses an improved (not nerfed AF) template system for those that want it. Circle of the moon with a lycanthrope feel to it (rather than lunar teleporting which is not that great) would work well thematically. Make the current improved wildshape subclass wildlife as others have suggested.
Yes they need a lycanthropy based wildshaper. Templates would absolutely work well here
So I dont need to start as a level 1 Fighter with two-weapon fighting style?☺
after reading the Monk, I find it under whelmingbut ok! the four elements new version is missing the versitile nature that I would expect to see! if I want to hurl a bolder or ignite objects or even levitate something, where is that?
the druid looks good so far but I want the Moon druid to get more options for their forms! otherwise, its seems ok!
Pless add a fighter update
Still some odd interactions with the druid, like being able to turn into a tiny creature with the same HP, while turning into a bear doesn't make you tankier so you might as well turn into an animal that does more damage. You'd be better off having a few standardised animals that can be flavour texted in their appearance or commit to regular druids only turning into non-combat animals. 300ft thorn whip is also broken!!!
But there is a lot to like. Having commune with nature and speak with animals and constants is really good and thematic.
I really like the primal strike features though, they really would fit my current druid character. Land's aid is neat, I like healing/damage attacks, nice to see that One DnD is trying to make healing more dynamic.
For me, this Druid changes was mehh... The Druid feels like the Cleric... The changes was a lazy work.
The new Moon Druid is a mess. So many concepts in one subclass.
The Circle of the Sea is also a mess. The power of the sea combines Thunder, Lighting, Cold and also flying abilities... Is at minimum weird.
Why are we getting rid of the elemental wildshapes? At this point make 2 subclasses circle of the moon and circle of the wild/beast. Add the moon and were theme to the moon and then go full wildshape for the beast circle. Some of the ideas are good but I really don’t like them taking the tank aspect out of wildshape. Some groups don’t have a designated tank and the moon druid was able to pickup that role.
Why did elemental wildshape ever exist?
Elemental shape need a subclass, but MOON druid don't make sense to have a elemental shape
@@hircenedaelen For the power spike, because CR critters fall off hard.
@@moontoonex3984 why did it exist on a MOON druid, I understand the Doyleist explanation
Better from last playtest, still not enough. Many focus on the extremist cases where u break the game. I think the average druid still sucks. I like the limited number of forms but i would have wanted a bit more option like 3-5-8 instead of 3-4-5. I like wild resurgence, i don't like elemental fury or commune with nature, they should get rid of features that only give spells prepared without the option to use it one time for free on long rest, improved elemental fury is all the same, pretty underwhelming, and archdruid basically has just the longevity feature. My only hope is that the primal spell list will be so fire to balance it out
Commune with nature is meant to be cast As a ritual that's why they dont give a free cast.
@@barcster2003 ok, moreover i don't see how giving a free cast changes much casting it once a day in a minute instead of 11, i would prefer seeing this feature going in one of two path. More like 5e feature that give u more themed spells prepared as u lv up or as a feature that gives u not a spell but a magical effect. I have the same opinion one dnd sorc and wiz, they both got 3 features where they just know spells, it's just made to fill the gaps and make it feel different from 5e base wiz and sorc eho both have few base features.
But can you turn into an owlbear?
Good question
same answer to any D AND D question what your DM says
Sounds interesting. But will druids now be able to use heavy metal armor? That is so off putting to me
i have never understood why they can use metal weapons and equipment but not armor and its been that way since 1982 for me its a good change
In this ruleset yes they could.
A little sad they folded on Wild Shape templates, but I guess that was just a bridge too far for some people. Sea Druid seems dope.
Espero que no livro 📖 tenha assuntos pra personagens acima do level 20. Tô precisando. 👀
Vc é uma lenda se chegou no nível 20, te idolatro
The druid has been un-murdered? Awesome.
The monk has been stomped on? Why you do that? I don't play monk, but those poor lads. They were already the weakest.
LIT
This version of Wild Shape is strictly worse than 2014 and the previous playtest. In fact, the whole class is. Sad.
Oh good, instead of getting knocked out of wildshape I’ll just die lol
Yeah it's kinda wack. That was one appeal of the Moon druid is you could tank really well with the increased HP.
I think you missed the point. If you're a lvl 5 Moon Druid with 40hp, and you wildshape into a brown bear, you will retain your 40hp and gain 15 temp hp. A brown bear with 55hp is pretty damn tanky at 5th lvl. When your hp is reduced to 15 you could wildshape into a brown bear again restoring your temp hp taking you back up to 30hp. Don't forget you can also cast healing spells (with no material comps) on yourself while wildshaped. For all intensive purposes, you could keep yourself in wildshape form for a very long time...
@@the_peoples_arm Also, you now get the AC from your character rather than having to deal with the AC of the brown bear (which was, in 5e, atrocious). So while probably not quite as tanky as the druid from 5e, you have more options with those abjuration spells and are still a pretty tough nut to crack for enemies. I like this.
I'm a little more worried about their to-hit chances as the game gets further on. Most beasts don't have great to-hit chances compared to players at the levels the moon druid would get access to them, which would once again make high level play difficult in beast form. I don't need their damage increased, but an ability to use the druids spell to hit chance (or even just adding some new and better beast options) could fix this pretty succinctly.
Should have stuck with templates and made them better. Moon Druid makes zero sense now, messy messy.
Can we talk about how better is the monk now?
First
Cool, now a moon druid, assuming it fully commit to wild shape, 1200 extra hp if they use all of their wild shape and spellslots of 5th or lower level for it instead of an unlimited number, that will solve that problem.
Also wasn't the reason they put stat block to avoid having players and GMs to seek over many books, limiting the number per long rest how does it solve that ?
Like they say, you can now pre prepare your stats blocks to easily acess them, like you would do with spells...
@@floriansanial2694 from any book that ever existed
@@МаратГабдуллин-б5ф you do not require to go back into human forrm to use wild shape, It only takes your bonus action, and while its true that temporary HP do not stack, they still refresh, that Is still 60 HP per turno, and you are likelly to have a higher AC then what you would have before, It Is still a Nerf, but not as big as It seems
@@МаратГабдуллин-б5ф At level 10 it is 126HP vs 30 THP. They removed a Wild Shape charge per SR too, so you wont even have that 30 THP per combat. Sure, you can spend Spell Slots on it, but how many are you going to spend for this? The whole point was to be tanky while Concentrating on a Spell, not just be tanky.
The damage of the forms was always poor past the early levels. Now, cantrips have been made even better (Potent Spellcasting). So this is what you get for picking Circle of the Moon: you get the priviledge of no longer doing ranged damage, you lose the ability to cast most Spells, you lose your shield, you are locked out from another subclass (like free castings of Polymorph!), and in return you get a little bit of temporary hit points.
Given that hit points are now locked at 3 times Druid Level, I think we could easily look at CR forms of Druid Leve/2 instead of /3.
@@МаратГабдуллин-б5ф
1) 5e you get two back per SR. You've lost one per SR. You can spend Spell Slots on it, though.
2) Yes, which you can do more so without Circle of the Moon. This is purely restrictive by Circle of the Moon, not something you are gaining.
3) I agree IF you get something back in turn.
4) 1d8 (2d8 at very high levels) per turn is not much. When factoring in number of attacks and low accuracy of forms it works out about 2.5 to 4 DPR per turn. To take this option you can't take the cantrip option.
5) The cantrip option improves them, +5 to damage per turn before accuracy/saves. Or, you know, cast a levelled Spell since you can do that if not Wild Shaped. Scopion has +4 to hit at level 9-11 and a very low Con Save for most of its damage - the maths have been done and its dire.
6) Yep, which is called an opportunity cost. For example, Circle of the Land has a part of one single feature (so not even the whole feature) that grants a free casting of Polymorph at 7: turning into a CR7 form with all the damage and HP that entails, while the Circle of the Moon is at CR2 with 21 THP cap. The limited teleporation at higher levels is nice, but you know roughly equivalent to a level 2 Spell.
7) Sure, they would need to put some effort it.
I liked the premade stat blocks and i don't like this
Pre-made templates were absolute trash. Why would a rat and a bear share the same stats?
This is actually better so things aren't exactly the same. If the make the creatures well this works much better.
This class is still garbage, you're providing little to no reason to choose this druid over a 2014 version.
- 2014 - Unlimited Animals to choose from as long as fits your CR. One DnD 3-5 depending upon level and also must fit your CR.
- 2014, Any Druid gets temp HP based on the animal they change into. One DnD, Only Circle of Moon get Temp HP and it's the lower of 3x your Druid level or the animal.
- 2014, Moon Druids can heal themselves as long as they have spell slots. One DnD, you can have a medium armor AC and use abjuration spells, oh that's right, Druids don't get Shield....
As I stated before, if your goal is to drive interest for playing a new class, you're doing a horrible job at it. Not many people are going to be excited about playing a neutered version of a class when they can just play the 2014 version and enjoy all the benefits. This isn't WoW where blizzard can nerf a class and people have to just eat it up or quit the game. This is DnD. DnD's reputation has been quickly falling into the toilet, and the last thing you need is to release a "5.5 version." of DnD where most people will just avoid it since it's nothing more than a balance patch.
I mean, they *meant* to nerf the druid, since moon druids could make lower-level play kinda ridiculous.
@@muddlewait8844 that's not the point. They can mean to nerf a druid all they wish for "balance." But at the end of the day, their end goal is to sell books, especially big Hasbro over their shoulder trying to milk and dime this franchise. And you're not going to win over an audience by saying
"Hey, come buy this new book that will cost $40-60 dollars, where you can play a subpar version of the same class you know and love from the 2014 version."
That is the point, which is what I said in my first sentence. They're providing little to no reason to purchase this book as a Druid fan over the 2014 version.
In the end, it sounds like they're going to learn the hard way. They should know quite well what drove the success of DnD. It wasn't the gaming/mechanic aspect of it, but the narrative storytelling aspect driven by CR, Dimension 20, and more. And very few individuals from the narrative audience could care less about the "difficulty" of lower level play because they aren't trying to make Dark Souls the TTRPG.
Ultimately it's going to break down to the 2014 version being the narrative version and the One DnD version being the gaming version, because it's really nothing more than a balance patch.
@@Leo619858 Typical spoiled player mentality, "LeT mE bE Op, iTs fUn" No wonder DMs are fleeing this trash edition.
@@unusuallycloudy Typical Troll trying to attack a particular style of enjoyment. One of DnD's biggest raise to stardom was its power fantasy, and there's nothing wrong with that. If you were actually curious as to DnD's recent dive in popularity, you'd pay attention to their debacle regarding their gaming licenses problems. The only DM's leaving the edition are those wanting to say racist things around the table and get away with it and those wanting to punish their players with dark soul mechanics and having trouble doing so. I'm in 3 DnD campaigns right now and have never had an issue finding a DM.
BTW, warframe, one of the biggest f2p games that dives headlong into the power fantasy where you kill enemies in seconds, says high. So I know this might be hard for you to understand, but not every game needs to be tailored towards the "balance" crowd.