For all of the people calling la gibet strange, it is actually done very tastefully. The story is about a body hanging in the desert with loud bells in the far distance, which is represented extremely well in this transcription. Keep in mind that this is in no way trying to mimic piano sounds, but merely to use Ravel's notes and create a different piece with them with an all new atmosphere. I think this was done very well.
I agree that the orchestration totally deviates from the initial form Ravel was going for, but overall, I thought this arrangement didn’t well-engineer its volume emphasis. I thought that the instrumentation was gorgeous though; the unconventional instruments were very cleverly placed. Also, I’m not sure the original poem necessarily spoke of a desert. Maybe we’ve read different translations? I’m no French whiz so feel free to elaborate if you have expertise in this domain
I am listening Ravel all his works for about 45 years now. I prefer the piano version but this orchestration is very well done. It has his own different feeling.
I can see why Ravel did not orchestrate the Gaspard suite himself--these are probably his most pianistically conceived pieces, and he would had to give up too many of his most wonderful keyboard effects in arranging them for orchestra. That said, I'm very glad Marius Constant attacked this challenge--his orchestral version works very well in its own right, and at the same time illuminates elements of the original piano work in fresh ways.
@@bobschaaf2549 I think Ravel said that in the sense of making the piano sounds very close to an orchestra. Not write it as if it were already for an orchestra (if that makes any sense 😂).
9:28 That is, and likely always will be, my favourite chord is all of music, anytime it's used. This moment alone, even with the piano version, makes this one of my favourite pieces ever. It's delicious, and it almost makes my mouth water with it's colourfulness.
The last 7 minutes of Gaspard feels like a giant whirlpool. Everything from the swirling strings and the shrieking piccolo and rapid harp ascensions before the impactful downbeats, and at the end how it is slow and mellow but then accelerates as the flutes move in minor seconds not in unison but against each other to sound like a bunch of water stirring into motion quickly and uncontrollably
Marius Constant's excellent orchestration fascinates me profoundly. The dreamy "Ondine" subtly reminds me of the finale of "Pelleas et Melisande" rather than Ravel (01:45-02:40 and 06:46-07:00)! Fine orchestral sound, Philadelphia? I am looking forward to listening to these Ravel/Constant pieces at a summer concert of Tokyo Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Jonathan Nott, the best conductor for me today.
This is a great orchestration in my opinion. Because it is an arrangement of the piano piece there are gonna be some trade-offs, most notably in clarity and sharpness, because there are things that a piano can do, that an orchestra could never emulate, but in the more lyrical and legato sections, the orchestra version seems far superior to me due to the increased variety in timbre and dynamic. For example, the start of Scarbo is better on piano due to the clarity, and the fast sections are sharper too, but the lyrical theme that appears throughout always gives me chills in the orchestral version. I think it's a trade-off, and both versions are great in their own respects.
Interesting idea, but I don't wonder Ravel didn't do it himself. He was the master of orchestrating, there were many composers that orchestrated Mussorgsky's Pictures, but his ranks #1 by miles and is probably the only used for last century. Why he didn't orchestrate his Gaspard? You hear it yourselves, it's absolutely different piece. The main themes in the piano version strangely aren't main here, this is just a lot of sound, but it lacks the cleanliness, so strikingly obvious in Scarbo, it lacks the brute force of the climax chords, something that is so enjoyable in Pogorelich's or Debargue's interpretations. I mean, it's not bad, but it makes it a whole different piece in my opinion :)
I don't know. I maybe even like this version more. Especially Le Gibet. I'm playing the piece now, and there are many bars, that just aren't possible to play as written, and with orchestrated version everybody plays their parts. And bells can just stay, while violin, or other instruments play melody.
And by the way, I think this piece is more fitted for orchestrated version, than his Valses nobles et sentimentales. But he did orchestrate valses :\ It is good, but it doesn't really fit.
The NY Philharmonic recently played this. Their director said Ravel wanted to orchestrate it, but never cared for anything he came up with. I love this arrangement!
I totally agree with ondine being a little muddy compared to the piano version, but I personally feel like the orchestra adds so much more depth and color that the piano could never create, which fits le gibet really well. The piece is already very colorful, and the availability and resonance of new timbres in the orchestra feels really great for that particular piece.
We may think about reasons. The fact he didn't orchestrated it maybe also suggests he likes the impression piano version makes more than had it been played by an orchestra. We, pianists, tend to focus on making piano sound like an orchestra all the time, while almost forgetting piano is an instrument as well.
Actually, I felt Ondine to be far more convincing than Le gibet, though Ondine's orchestration was pretty much of a piece with Ravel's approach to Daphnis and to Une barque sur l'ocean. Putting a tubular bell smack on the opening notes of Le gibet is juts too obvious for my ear. I can't help feeling that Ravel would have done something that suggested bells if they were implicit, but not actual bells - which is the same reason most orchestrations of La vallée des cloches fail.
Well, Constant chose what seems to him the more efficient and he does not keep the tubular bells all the way through, he also gives this role to the celesta, alto flute, contrabass... And at some point, we lost it because of the tutti. I'm not that sure that Ravel would have not chose the tubular bells. I don't think it was a mistake, it's not easy to orchestrate a "bell" effect like this without obviously using bells. For me, it gives a sense of consistency.
Surely the point here is Marius Constant and NOT Ravel has orchestrated this piano masterpiece. Although the former has clearly listened to the latter, it is very much a different work in this rendition. To quibble about whether or not Ravel would have used particular instruments seems pointless. It's a new listening experience is all.
This is the next level of orchestrated feel good in it's purest form. Its the next level of a certain kind of conscience that we seek. In 2018,I need this. Hip Hop/Rap Grunge Dysfunctional Thug Culture has thrown me off. I'm back on track now. Thanks Ravel and Maurice!!
If anyone reads "Yuk!" in the comments,they'd certainly be in no doubt about what the writer thought of the piece.Putting "just...yuk..." straight after it wouldn't increase their certainty-it was already at maximum level after the 1st "yuk" eh.Same applies to going "just...wow..." straight after you've already put "Wow"-it's superfluous to requirements,coz people immediately get it-you're gobsmacked.
Both the full score and the study score of Marius Constant's orchestration have been published by Durand. You can buy it here, for example : www.boosey.com/shop/prod/Gaspard-de-la-nuit-orchestra-pocket-score/2103428 Corentin Boissier (collectionCB, collectionCB2, collectionCB3 & collectionCB4)
A weird exercise. Sure, you recognize the original material, but there it leaves off. It completely misses the essence of the piano version, and in this orchestral version often sound mawkishly sweet or sentimental, and all of it is the equivalent of a terribly out of focus and blurred photograph. I find Le Gibet especially ineffective here. Ravel certainly knew when and when not to do this, since the majority of his orchestral music were piano pieces first, orchestrated second. He knew well enough to leave Gaspard alone, as he did the Toccata from his Le Tombeau de Couperin.
On the subject of recent little expressions that are silly and annoying,it's ironic that when someone wants to acknowledge having said or done something wrong,"My bad!" is the phrase often used-which is itself bad! It's "my mistake!".And saying "you're bein' a dick" to someone behaving inappropriately seems to be the latest craze-why??I reckon it's likely many blokes not up with the latest lingo would take that as a compliment!
Un véritable tour de force.... but the character of the music is changed in a drastic way. Now it sounds a bit kitschy and sweet, without the clear edges Ravel's piano music has of its own accord. The orchestration, however brilliant and inventive and Ravellian, perfumes the music in an unpleasant way. Instead of the pure natural odor of a perfectly shaped garden with exotic flowers, one smells the exaggerated perfumes of a chique, but rather shabby boudoir. The same problem appeared with Ravel's own scoring of 'Une barque sur l'océan', brilliantly done but it turned the music into sweet kitsch. He obvioulsy came to the same conclusion and was not happy with it.
It's a matter of what you're used to, I'm thinking. I find that this really does work quite well. Many have said that if they didn't know better, they would assume that this is genuine orchestral Ravel. I think that Constant did his work beautifully. And I disagree with you about "Une Barque surl l'Ocean" - to me that piece makes far more sense orchestrally. I'm waiting for someone sufficiently skilled to produce orchestrations of "Noctuelles," "Oiseaux Triste," and Les Vallees des Cloches" that would be similarly compatible with Ravel's overall orchestral style.
I don't think Ondine is at all successful. What sounds like shimmering water in the original comes off like an attack of pecking hens when orchestrated. It's just too much: glitter on top of goo. Tant pis, mais nous avons toujours la version originale.
For all of the people calling la gibet strange, it is actually done very tastefully. The story is about a body hanging in the desert with loud bells in the far distance, which is represented extremely well in this transcription. Keep in mind that this is in no way trying to mimic piano sounds, but merely to use Ravel's notes and create a different piece with them with an all new atmosphere. I think this was done very well.
Its le gibet
I agree that the orchestration totally deviates from the initial form Ravel was going for, but overall, I thought this arrangement didn’t well-engineer its volume emphasis. I thought that the instrumentation was gorgeous though; the unconventional instruments were very cleverly placed. Also, I’m not sure the original poem necessarily spoke of a desert. Maybe we’ve read different translations? I’m no French whiz so feel free to elaborate if you have expertise in this domain
0:01 Ondine
7:03 Le Gibet
12:13 Scarbo
I am listening Ravel all his works for about 45 years now. I prefer the piano version but this orchestration is very well done. It has his own different feeling.
A little bit of trivia here: Marius Constant wrote the original theme music to the Twilight Zone TV series with Rod Serling
This makes total sense 😂
I can see why Ravel did not orchestrate the Gaspard suite himself--these are probably his most pianistically conceived pieces, and he would had to give up too many of his most wonderful keyboard effects in arranging them for orchestra. That said, I'm very glad Marius Constant attacked this challenge--his orchestral version works very well in its own right, and at the same time illuminates elements of the original piano work in fresh ways.
But he said that he conceived Scarbo as a piano transcription!
@@bobschaaf2549 I think Ravel said that in the sense of making the piano sounds very close to an orchestra. Not write it as if it were already for an orchestra (if that makes any sense 😂).
Most fascinating. Sounds a whole lot different than the piano original, but then: this is precisely the point. Should be heard more often.
9:28 That is, and likely always will be, my favourite chord is all of music, anytime it's used. This moment alone, even with the piano version, makes this one of my favourite pieces ever. It's delicious, and it almost makes my mouth water with it's colourfulness.
The last 7 minutes of Gaspard feels like a giant whirlpool. Everything from the swirling strings and the shrieking piccolo and rapid harp ascensions before the impactful downbeats, and at the end how it is slow and mellow but then accelerates as the flutes move in minor seconds not in unison but against each other to sound like a bunch of water stirring into motion quickly and uncontrollably
You don't regret the original piano. The modernity of Gibet comes off well. Would be happy to hear it in concert too.
A beautiful suite in orchestral form. So glad I listened to the whole piece.
Le gibet reminds of the rite of spring for some reason here, absolutely lovely
Marius Constant's excellent orchestration fascinates me profoundly. The dreamy "Ondine" subtly reminds me of the finale of "Pelleas et Melisande" rather than Ravel (01:45-02:40 and 06:46-07:00)! Fine orchestral sound, Philadelphia? I am looking forward to listening to these Ravel/Constant pieces at a summer concert of Tokyo Symphony Orchestra under the baton of Jonathan Nott, the best conductor for me today.
Will you do a comparison of the TSO and Philadelphia versions?
This is a great orchestration in my opinion. Because it is an arrangement of the piano piece there are gonna be some trade-offs, most notably in clarity and sharpness, because there are things that a piano can do, that an orchestra could never emulate, but in the more lyrical and legato sections, the orchestra version seems far superior to me due to the increased variety in timbre and dynamic. For example, the start of Scarbo is better on piano due to the clarity, and the fast sections are sharper too, but the lyrical theme that appears throughout always gives me chills in the orchestral version. I think it's a trade-off, and both versions are great in their own respects.
Absolument magnifique !
Interesting idea, but I don't wonder Ravel didn't do it himself. He was the master of orchestrating, there were many composers that orchestrated Mussorgsky's Pictures, but his ranks #1 by miles and is probably the only used for last century. Why he didn't orchestrate his Gaspard? You hear it yourselves, it's absolutely different piece. The main themes in the piano version strangely aren't main here, this is just a lot of sound, but it lacks the cleanliness, so strikingly obvious in Scarbo, it lacks the brute force of the climax chords, something that is so enjoyable in Pogorelich's or Debargue's interpretations. I mean, it's not bad, but it makes it a whole different piece in my opinion :)
I don't know. I maybe even like this version more. Especially Le Gibet. I'm playing the piece now, and there are many bars, that just aren't possible to play as written, and with orchestrated version everybody plays their parts. And bells can just stay, while violin, or other instruments play melody.
And by the way, I think this piece is more fitted for orchestrated version, than his Valses nobles et sentimentales. But he did orchestrate valses :\ It is good, but it doesn't really fit.
The NY Philharmonic recently played this. Their director said Ravel wanted to orchestrate it, but never cared for anything he came up with. I love this arrangement!
I totally agree with ondine being a little muddy compared to the piano version, but I personally feel like the orchestra adds so much more depth and color that the piano could never create, which fits le gibet really well. The piece is already very colorful, and the availability and resonance of new timbres in the orchestra feels really great for that particular piece.
We may think about reasons. The fact he didn't orchestrated it maybe also suggests he likes the impression piano version makes more than had it been played by an orchestra. We, pianists, tend to focus on making piano sound like an orchestra all the time, while almost forgetting piano is an instrument as well.
Actually, I felt Ondine to be far more convincing than Le gibet, though Ondine's orchestration was pretty much of a piece with Ravel's approach to Daphnis and to Une barque sur l'ocean. Putting a tubular bell smack on the opening notes of Le gibet is juts too obvious for my ear. I can't help feeling that Ravel would have done something that suggested bells if they were implicit, but not actual bells - which is the same reason most orchestrations of La vallée des cloches fail.
The tam tam effect in Le Gibet at around 11:40 is one effect I would gladly dispense with.
I agree with you : Ravel would NEVER have put tubular bells : just too obvious an idea
Well, Constant chose what seems to him the more efficient and he does not keep the tubular bells all the way through, he also gives this role to the celesta, alto flute, contrabass... And at some point, we lost it because of the tutti. I'm not that sure that Ravel would have not chose the tubular bells. I don't think it was a mistake, it's not easy to orchestrate a "bell" effect like this without obviously using bells. For me, it gives a sense of consistency.
Surely the point here is Marius Constant and NOT Ravel has orchestrated this piano masterpiece. Although the former has clearly listened to the latter, it is very much a different work in this rendition. To quibble about whether or not Ravel would have used particular instruments seems pointless. It's a new listening experience is all.
This is fantastic!
This is the next level of orchestrated feel good in it's purest form. Its the next level of a certain kind of conscience that we seek. In 2018,I need this. Hip Hop/Rap Grunge Dysfunctional Thug Culture has thrown me off. I'm back on track now. Thanks Ravel and Maurice!!
Thug culture?
@@josephalvarez5315 What country are you In?
rexx garvin the United States. Why do you ask
Do you want me to explain what I meant about Thug Culture?
rexx garvin I mean to be honest I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, but I still do want to hear what you meant
Incredible!
The music is like telling you to be prepared for a new musical realm. (from Romanticism to Modernism)
If anyone reads "Yuk!" in the comments,they'd certainly be in no doubt about what the writer thought of the piece.Putting "just...yuk..." straight after it wouldn't increase their certainty-it was already at maximum level after the 1st "yuk" eh.Same applies to going "just...wow..." straight after you've already put "Wow"-it's superfluous to requirements,coz people immediately get it-you're gobsmacked.
Is there any place on earth where i could buy this score??!!
Both the full score and the study score of Marius Constant's orchestration have been published by Durand. You can buy it here, for example :
www.boosey.com/shop/prod/Gaspard-de-la-nuit-orchestra-pocket-score/2103428
Corentin Boissier (collectionCB, collectionCB2, collectionCB3 & collectionCB4)
A weird exercise. Sure, you recognize the original material, but there it leaves off. It completely misses the essence of the piano version, and in this orchestral version often sound mawkishly sweet or sentimental, and all of it is the equivalent of a terribly out of focus and blurred photograph. I find Le Gibet especially ineffective here.
Ravel certainly knew when and when not to do this, since the majority of his orchestral music were piano pieces first, orchestrated second. He knew well enough to leave Gaspard alone, as he did the Toccata from his Le Tombeau de Couperin.
I think it`s The Philadelphian Orchestra, isn`t it??
On the subject of recent little expressions that are silly and annoying,it's ironic that when someone wants to acknowledge having said or done something wrong,"My bad!" is the phrase often used-which is itself bad! It's "my mistake!".And saying "you're bein' a dick" to someone behaving inappropriately seems to be the latest craze-why??I reckon it's likely many blokes not up with the latest lingo would take that as a compliment!
sup
Un véritable tour de force.... but the character of the music is changed in a drastic way. Now it sounds a bit kitschy and sweet, without the clear edges Ravel's piano music has of its own accord. The orchestration, however brilliant and inventive and Ravellian, perfumes the music in an unpleasant way. Instead of the pure natural odor of a perfectly shaped garden with exotic flowers, one smells the exaggerated perfumes of a chique, but rather shabby boudoir.
The same problem appeared with Ravel's own scoring of 'Une barque sur l'océan', brilliantly done but it turned the music into sweet kitsch. He obvioulsy came to the same conclusion and was not happy with it.
It's a matter of what you're used to, I'm thinking. I find that this really does work quite well. Many have said that if they didn't know better, they would assume that this is genuine orchestral Ravel. I think that Constant did his work beautifully. And I disagree with you about "Une Barque surl l'Ocean" - to me that piece makes far more sense orchestrally. I'm waiting for someone sufficiently skilled to produce orchestrations of "Noctuelles," "Oiseaux Triste," and Les Vallees des Cloches" that would be similarly compatible with Ravel's overall orchestral style.
Je suis d'accord. On y perd du mordant.
"Kitschy and sweet" : I totally agree with you.
Its a great orchestration. But I think that lacks in rythm
I don't think Ondine is at all successful. What sounds like shimmering water in the original comes off like an attack of pecking hens when orchestrated. It's just too much: glitter on top of goo. Tant pis, mais nous avons toujours la version originale.
立派なオーケストレーション
21:42 seems like Harry Potter
John WIlliams is inspired by Ravel. Listen to Ravel and yo'ull see most movies of the 20th/21th century before your eyes...