Ludwig Wittgenstein - John Searle & Bryan Magee (1987)

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มี.ค. 2024
  • In this program, John Searle discusses the life and thought of Ludwig Wittgenstein with Bryan Magee. This is an episode from a 1987 series on the Great Philosophers.
    00:00 Introduction
    03:37 Picture Theory of Meaning
    08:56 Meaning as Use
    11:09 Family Resemblance
    15:44 Language Games
    19:11 Ubiquity of Language
    20:35 Religious Language
    23:03 Philosophical Puzzlement
    24:12 Private Language
    28:15 Forms of Life
    29:27 His Writing Style
    32:28 Influence Outside Philosophy
    34:16 Searle's Evaluation
    #Philosophy #Wittgenstein #BryanMagee

ความคิดเห็น • 236

  • @mikaelthesleff3333
    @mikaelthesleff3333 ปีที่แล้ว +11

    These interviews by Magee are the best !

  • @jalepezo
    @jalepezo 2 ปีที่แล้ว +16

    thank u very much for re uploading the series with Bryan Magee

  • @berizont
    @berizont ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I always think it's Michael Scott while scrolling down the recommendations

  • @c-r3187
    @c-r3187 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    They wrapped it up real fast at the end…

  • @dheeshanyakarunapema3791
    @dheeshanyakarunapema3791 2 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    Thank you for the upload, brilliant stuff 🖤

  • @Liberated_from_Religion
    @Liberated_from_Religion ปีที่แล้ว +43

    The best video of the whole series, due to the way John Searle talks. It's a pleasure to listen to him.

    • @die_schlechtere_Milch
      @die_schlechtere_Milch 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      he is hilarious. I love him. He is so super straight.

  • @martinrea8548
    @martinrea8548 ปีที่แล้ว +12

    Wittgenstein spent some time in Dublin, Ireland, in the 1940s. Apparently he quite liked the country and the people. There is a plaque on the wall of the Aisling Hotel, close to Heuston Station, commemorating his sojourn there. There is also a plaque on the steps in one of the glasshouses in the Botanical Gardens in Glasnevin, Dublin, which states Wittgenstein used to like to sit there and write.

    • @markantrobus6794
      @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      Colin Wilson says that a neighbour from Galway said he saw Wittgenstein standing with birds nesting on his head and shoulders who flew away when he approached.

  • @ZIGSVIDS
    @ZIGSVIDS ปีที่แล้ว +4

    I've just discovered Philosophy , It's a struggle but I'm trying.

  • @andrewgirvan3540
    @andrewgirvan3540 ปีที่แล้ว +7

    For those interested in Wittgenstein. There is a channel called Hermitix Podcast that interviewed Miles Hollingworth, who wrote a philosophical biography on Wittgenstein. Excellent channel and interview imho.

  • @strutherhill
    @strutherhill ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Philosophy Overdose Many thanks for providing this excellent discussion.

  • @markofsaltburn
    @markofsaltburn ปีที่แล้ว +36

    This was John Searle before he starred in “The 40-year Old Virgin”

  • @owenbowler8616
    @owenbowler8616 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    Wonderful to have access to good intellectual stimulation.

  • @Benforeva
    @Benforeva ปีที่แล้ว +6

    Searle is such a comic, always keeps it light.

    • @alfredhitchcock45
      @alfredhitchcock45 ปีที่แล้ว +2

      I never find him funny. In fact he seems quite irritated with the British host

    • @jsquire5pa
      @jsquire5pa ปีที่แล้ว

      @@alfredhitchcock45 I think he’s joking

  • @averagejoebitcoin
    @averagejoebitcoin ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wow. Thanks for the upload. And thank you Aeon for directing me here.

  • @georgethewinetasteuir6142
    @georgethewinetasteuir6142 2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Thanks for the high quality upload

  • @pkumarsachin4442
    @pkumarsachin4442 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    39:00 - 40:00 For more on the category mistake Searle highlights the category mistake of treating mind and body as belonging to the same general category. For those interested in a deeper dive into this, read Ryle "The concept of mind"

  • @bash2357
    @bash2357 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    what a brilliant introduction

  • @johnbrown4568
    @johnbrown4568 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Beyond this…I am without words.

  • @AdrienLegendre
    @AdrienLegendre 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Searle did a great job.

  • @georgegoodyear9631
    @georgegoodyear9631 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Thank you very much for taking the time and trouble to start your channel. I’ve just come across it and am sure that it will make for intriguing viewing.

  • @specialforces4947
    @specialforces4947 ปีที่แล้ว +8

    Wonderful. A credit to everyone involved and to TH-cam.

  • @jimmy_octane
    @jimmy_octane ปีที่แล้ว +11

    40:07 Fame is a new poison and it is specifically for our generation to overcome. Could you imagine being so well-versed in your job without being famous? These guys are just proficient. Amazing!

    • @AntonKrueger
      @AntonKrueger 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      who are you referring to as not being famous? both of these were superstars in the field of philosophy. okay, likely few fans outside academia (unlike someone like zizek today), yet in my MA in philosophy of language i remember j. searl as a leading light, and magee as a brilliant popularizer, who wrote many easily accessible books on many of the greats. or maybe i'm misunderstanding your meaning?

    • @die_schlechtere_Milch
      @die_schlechtere_Milch 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Wittgenstein wanted fame, just as many other 20th and some 21st century philosophers. As Searle notes here, Wittgenstein wrote in these pseudo-autistic paragraphs not only because he did not know how to write in a clear, concise and argumentative style, while also showing respect for the reader. He did not bother with respecting his readers (which is a very bad sign already!), and, as Searle says here, wanted to write in such a manner to stand out among the philosophers. He wanted to be different from most academic philosophers and certainly he used his charisma in order to inflate some of his weaker theoretical (or anti-theoritical for that matter) points in his philosophy. Not to speak of Heidegger, who would have done and indeed did everything in order to be different and famous.
      I think that especially in the analytic tradition there has been a move away from the "great and famous" figures of analytic philosophy, much research has become quite specialised and the entire conversational style in our journals stayed scholastic through and through, so much excellent research is being done by people who are literally unknown outside of their bubble and fame is no longer the reward of excellence and much less a motivation for excellence or the appearance of excellence.

    • @gearaddictclimber2524
      @gearaddictclimber2524 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@die_schlechtere_MilchI find your presumption of both Wittgenstein and Heidegger’s intentions to be highly problematic. As far as I can tell, this is sheer conjecture to rationalize the fact that *you* don’t like their philosophies. That’s cool, but just because you want to *claim* their writing styles are unclear does not make them so. I find both writers to be both highly technical and highly specific. It is a common error to find a thinker like the previously mentioned ones, or Hegel or Kant, and presume they’re just bad writers rather than realizing that they’re creating new language to suffice for their purposes and doing so in a fairly consistent manner. Heidegger even says so in the introduction to Being and Time when anticipating this response, explaining that the Seinsfrage (the question of Being), in order to be properly discussed, requires a whole new way of speaking that may require being wonky or strange (obviously paraphrasing on my part). Wittgenstein too used the nested paragraph style as a way to present his ideas in digestible propositions, which is likely a *virtue* of a good writer because he wants to eliminate the fluff, itself likely the result of his engineering and mathematics background making him keen to be as precise as possible with no time for riff raff-itself clearly evident in his philosophical revolution.

  • @REDPUMPERNICKEL
    @REDPUMPERNICKEL ปีที่แล้ว +28

    I'm getting old and nod off
    in the middle of intense movie action and
    even when there's only forty five seconds left in a football game about to be decided.
    But this conversation had
    a remarkably firm and constant grip on my attention
    from start to end.
    Most of what they spoke of resonated strongly.
    Philosophical Investigations is moved to the top of my reading list .

    • @deluminati
      @deluminati 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      get "the blue and brown books" and "remarks on the foundations of mathematics" too. The blue and brown books where "prequels" the philosophical investigations, and remarks...is a collection of the specific mathematical part of the philosophical investigations....Personally I agree with Russell that the investigations didn't say too much, I think the whole of wittgensteins later work needs to be read as a collection because thats what it is, they werent published by him, they are all published stuff found after his death. Im learning german to get my head around "philosophische bemerkungen"...it seems his best stuff next to the tractatus. I have all his stuff except "remarks on colour", get "Zettel" and "on certainty" too as I feel they add to the investigations.

  • @jimmy_octane
    @jimmy_octane ปีที่แล้ว +1

    How is this free? It's so valuable!

  • @danjameson1572
    @danjameson1572 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I took a class with Prof. Searle which included all major texts from Descartes through the empiricists and then culminating with Wittgenstein - and this was in the quarter, not the semester, system. Overwhelming.

    • @danjameson1572
      @danjameson1572 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ReverendDr.Thomas was in 11th grade at the time. Perhaps a little early to ingest all that. Still think it was a poorly structured course in terms of time.

    • @danjameson1572
      @danjameson1572 ปีที่แล้ว

      by the way I agree w/everything you say. that particular University was perhaps my most comprehensive experience with adharma to date.

  • @stavrosk.2868
    @stavrosk.2868 ปีที่แล้ว +3

    As a Dutch teacher to primarily French speakers in Brussels, I recognized many of these problems with regard to semantics, use and culture/context.

  • @gohbyname
    @gohbyname ปีที่แล้ว

    Adding to the list of fields influenced by Wittgenstein: Social constructionism, dialogism, psychodynamic, family, systemic and narrative practice

  • @tomisaacson2762
    @tomisaacson2762 ปีที่แล้ว

    It's fun to listen to Searle

  • @jimmy_octane
    @jimmy_octane ปีที่แล้ว +1

    I wish, one day, to be like these men. ❤️

    • @otthoheldring
      @otthoheldring ปีที่แล้ว

      Good luck

    • @pawelpap9
      @pawelpap9 ปีที่แล้ว

      Why wait? Start immediately.

  • @user-hu3iy9gz5j
    @user-hu3iy9gz5j 9 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    All games are competative, no?

  • @yestonymontana2257
    @yestonymontana2257 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is unique and good footage

  • @strutherhill
    @strutherhill ปีที่แล้ว +5

    The scope of their discussion is impressive. Whodda thunk that WG Grace, who did so much to establish cricket as the modern, rule-based game we know today, would have found his utterance about heads, cabbages and hearts being repeated here!

    • @strutherhill
      @strutherhill ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@ReverendDr.ThomasYou're right, of course. Grace divided his time between being a GP and a cricketer. He's mentioned in the above discussion, but the precise connection eludes me; as one gets older, the memory...where was I?

  • @nicoladisvevia
    @nicoladisvevia ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Searle is on great form!

  • @markantrobus6794
    @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

    They are accountants discussing a poet. Enjoyable all the same.

  • @faysal8597
    @faysal8597 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great overview, really helped me understand Ludwig better

    • @faysal8597
      @faysal8597 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@ReverendDr.Thomas thanks for stating the obvious 😂

  • @erumkhan6296
    @erumkhan6296 ปีที่แล้ว

    Very well said.

  • @khaledfahd2346
    @khaledfahd2346 ปีที่แล้ว

    21:16 very important ✨

  • @RicardoErick1
    @RicardoErick1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wow!

  • @dennismurphy3659
    @dennismurphy3659 ปีที่แล้ว

    Look how young Searle is.
    Well... comparatively.

  • @studyman5575
    @studyman5575 ปีที่แล้ว

    thx

  • @robthorpemusic
    @robthorpemusic ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Great as this is, it's surely the inspiration for A BIt of Fry and Laurie's 'language' sketch??

  • @williamjason1583
    @williamjason1583 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    A great channel. Although I am not a Wittgenstein fan, the discussion is useful.

  • @timdouglas620
    @timdouglas620 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    This is when people were smart.

  • @brucesmith1544
    @brucesmith1544 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God...... (John 1:1).

  • @jimmy_octane
    @jimmy_octane ปีที่แล้ว

    Yizinja ze game lezi

  • @mikewhelan9561
    @mikewhelan9561 ปีที่แล้ว

    5:47 calls him Ian

  • @hughoxford8735
    @hughoxford8735 ปีที่แล้ว +85

    Given the state of modern academia, thank God we have this archive.

    • @stephenchurch938
      @stephenchurch938 ปีที่แล้ว

      "God"!? I'd try the BBC-UK taxpayers/TH-cam/ Mr. and Mrs. Magee/ Bryan/John and his folks/1000 giants with shoulders before them/ Anglo-American unis/ the inventors of electricity, TV, lighting etc. "No, I will not play your religious language game, I will not" (he said looking off toward the sky, then realizing the religious implications of that a picture, looking down, but realizing the religious set had weaseled into his surrounds there too, then looked off toward the horizon with ridiculous attempts at 'meaning' and 'intensity', but, realizing Dan Snow was on a BBC sponsored boat doing that on all oceans surrounding him forever while implicating him in British imperial projects as if they were gracious gifts to humanity with only the smallest amount of biffo involved, he simply closed his eyes)

    • @annasaliy537
      @annasaliy537 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      ugh

    • @otthoheldring
      @otthoheldring ปีที่แล้ว +4

      What is the current state? Thankfully we have this archive regardless.

    • @TheEdudo
      @TheEdudo ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@otthoheldring the current state is that we cannot define what is "woman". The expression "cannot differentiate his elbow from his ass" has become reality.

    • @deponensvogel7261
      @deponensvogel7261 ปีที่แล้ว +14

      @@TheEdudoHad you listened to the program you might have noticed the problems associated with defining terms like 'woman' generally. Clearly, you haven't - listened or understood.

  • @notanemoprog
    @notanemoprog 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Oh Bryan, you're going to get in trouble again👌@10:24

  • @subcitizen2012
    @subcitizen2012 ปีที่แล้ว

    Whenever people seem confused or certain of something, I tell them to go read Wittgenstein. Their certainty might be a confusion. Their confusion might be the certainty.

  • @markantrobus6794
    @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

    Meaningful statement : the subject is the limit of the world.

    • @markantrobus8782
      @markantrobus8782 ปีที่แล้ว

      @Frédérique Couture yes? Can you elaborate?

  • @markantrobus6794
    @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

    He was a poet. Not a typical philosophical accountant.
    @Okami Sensei Wittgenstein is a kōan - Carl Hooper Roshi. Bodhi Zendo. Tamil Nadu South India.

  • @johnsharman7262
    @johnsharman7262 ปีที่แล้ว +31

    Searle is one of the best explainers of Wittgenstein, elucidating both theories very well( picture-theory and tool theory): strange he ends on his anti-theoretical bias. Magee a great conductor of
    philosopher's arguments.

  • @die_schlechtere_Milch
    @die_schlechtere_Milch 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    34:15 is so hilarious! 😂 I often feel exactly the same about Wittgenstein. Searle is so super straight, I love this guy! Just look at the ANGER in his eyes when he speaks about Wittgenstein's mimimimi-I-want-to-have-it-both-ways-I-like-Kierkegaard-and-want-to-sound-profound(TM) on religion at 36:40 and howr he takes a deep breath before starting the new topic of Wittgenstein and religion. For Searle it must be a torture to even think about that nonsense. Searle must be a great guy to drink beer with and trash talk about Wittgenstein and his followers/disciples. Look at his constant balling of the fists, his forward posturing of the forehead, his showing of the teeth, his facial expression. I love how his body language changes 180° as soon as he is asked about his own opinion and feelings about Wittgenstein 🤣. Imagine being Searle, hating Wittgenstein to the core and seeing how all the people run after Wittgenstein like sheep! This is an almost divine comedy.

  • @CarlosElio82
    @CarlosElio82 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I sense a wave-like geometry to words in the language game. Borrowing from quantum mechanics, a language talk versus a philosophy talk can be assumed to happen in different fields of meaning. The meaning becomes the sum of part of what the source wanted to communicate and part of what the receiver is predispose to understand. The field of meaning facilitates the additive combination resulting in understanding.

  • @meroberto8370
    @meroberto8370 ปีที่แล้ว

    maybe rules is what unites all the games?

  • @Kormac80
    @Kormac80 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I agree w Witt on human activity being proscribed by instinct more than by some underlying theory bc that’s how animals behave. It’s been proven in experiments that scripted actions are automatic. Not complete automatons of course, there is some slight variance based on conditions, but the point being our evolutionary influence would inform such an explanation to a greater degree than the Cartesian notion of actions having an underlying theory of mind informing the action

  • @martinhasson4942
    @martinhasson4942 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    He went up a tree to find an apple. Then He decided that apples weren’t what they were cracked up to be , so he looked across the orchard and decided that he’d rather be an orchard owner. In order to own and cultivate this concept he mused that he would have to speak to other horticulturalists in this field. So he did the decent thing and went to the local store and bought an apple.
    Everybody then benefited from his ethical thinking .

  • @janklaas6885
    @janklaas6885 ปีที่แล้ว

    ©️36:51

  • @shaunkerr8721
    @shaunkerr8721 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    This is a v clear elementary description of Wittgenstein's philosophy.

  • @shaunkerr8721
    @shaunkerr8721 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    th-cam.com/video/g2JVMOkoDo8/w-d-xo.html
    Where Nietzsche inspired Wittgenstein.

  • @gerhitchman
    @gerhitchman ปีที่แล้ว +9

    It's really odd that Searle is talking about Wittgenstein, considering Searle's own work is exactly the kind of philosophy both the early and latter Wittgenstein considered horribly misguided and useless.

    • @ryleexiii1252
      @ryleexiii1252 ปีที่แล้ว

      Absolutely

    • @Liberated_from_Religion
      @Liberated_from_Religion ปีที่แล้ว +3

      One does not have to agree with a philosopher (or anyone) to be an expert on his work.

    • @gerhitchman
      @gerhitchman ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@Liberated_from_Religion That's true. I just can't understand how someone who thinks like Searle could possibly understand W.

    • @Liberated_from_Religion
      @Liberated_from_Religion ปีที่แล้ว

      @@gerhitchman If Searle did not understand Wittgenstein, he would not have been invited to this program.

    • @gerhitchman
      @gerhitchman ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Liberated_from_Religion Clearly not.

  • @Vetissimus
    @Vetissimus ปีที่แล้ว

    Steve Carroll over here time traveling

  • @ninelaivz4334
    @ninelaivz4334 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    I can't get my head around this type of talk. We all know that language is an expression tool connecting objects and actions. What is Wittgenstein saying beyond that?

    • @oneshot2028
      @oneshot2028 ปีที่แล้ว

      Wittgenstein was overrated.

  • @notanemoprog
    @notanemoprog 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    "God exhausts."

  • @johansigg3869
    @johansigg3869 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Wittgenstein wasnt an atheist! That's one way the literature on his has changed and advanced since the airing of this program

  • @Iknowcephorous
    @Iknowcephorous ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Unfair, in retrospect, of course, but this discussion of context-formalist-atomic language (which, if I recall correctly Wittgenstein abandoned as well...post-Tractacus), is not apparently how we as humans, nor evidently how advanced non-human language models such as ChatGPT.x, appear to learn or associate self/shared meaning to expressive forms (language, etc.). I do love the human nature to project past our own formative associations, into the structured formal training we learned (noun, verb, adjective...oops adverb), though I suspect it misguided, or at least overly constrained.

  • @Thomasuki267
    @Thomasuki267 ปีที่แล้ว

    Took a lot of philosophy, including study of Wittgenstein. Still feel like a toddler who doesn't understand the world.

  • @meroberto8370
    @meroberto8370 ปีที่แล้ว

    even this linguistic positivism is still some sort of metaphysics. conservative philology taught in university is even more empirical

  • @gerhitchman
    @gerhitchman ปีที่แล้ว +1

    lol looks like it was very hot in the studio that day

  • @markantrobus6794
    @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

    ONE SHOT - I take your point. However. He was less complicating stuff than attempting to have intellectuals reach down below the level of their intellects into depth and direct experience two phrases he uses in The Blue Book 1934. He was a Zen mystic truth be told. And simple like you say. But not overrated.

    • @MD-lf3gt
      @MD-lf3gt ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Say that again?

  • @weltraumaffe4155
    @weltraumaffe4155 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wittgenstein and Bhartṛhari's Vākyapadīya should be taught together.

    • @weltraumaffe4155
      @weltraumaffe4155 ปีที่แล้ว

      I'll throw in Chomsky's "Syntactic Structures" with the other two to help you figure it out. Anything yet? No light bulb? Do you know who Bhartṛhari is?

  • @BarryCooper81
    @BarryCooper81 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Bryan Magee is God

  • @Alex.G.Harper
    @Alex.G.Harper 2 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    John Searle is sweating a lot. Poor guy.

    • @lsdc1
      @lsdc1 2 ปีที่แล้ว

      6.4321 The facts all belong only to the task and not to its performance.

  • @alaindezii4445
    @alaindezii4445 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    what's with the crappy furniture? Looks like something they found on the side of the road.

  • @markantrobus6794
    @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

    Wittgenstein did not repudiate Tractatus. These early and late statements are not incompatible philosophies simply different expressions of what is the same. He brings up Tractatus in Philosophical Investigations. He even affirms the Tractatus in PI §307. He constantly revised and reworked his expression of what was the same. We need a phenomenological grammar he said in 1930. Wittgenstein was an artist, a painter, a poet, musician who happened to be a philosopher. He cannot be judged by leftbrain disciplinary matrices. A picture can depict two things as Wittgenstein shows in the duck rabbit of Jastrow.

  • @andrewgirvan3540
    @andrewgirvan3540 ปีที่แล้ว

    An old friend told me " A blind squirrel will find a nut every now and then".

  • @nyworker
    @nyworker ปีที่แล้ว

    "We just act"...If the squirrel 🐿️ could talk.
    Of course we resemble lower mammals but what is added to us is the ❓

  • @itssanti
    @itssanti ปีที่แล้ว

    What all games have in common? Is it obvious they have nothing in common? I mean who can think that?
    All games have rules, they all invite the players to abide them, they all put restrictions on behavior and range of motion, they put players on the edge of their cognitive powers in some games, others push the physical powers of the participants while other push for both. Games with a random component have rules that don't depend exclusively on either physical or cognitive powers. The outstanding commonolity in all games is that the participants are expected to abide ethically, meaning to abide by the rules of the game even at (in a lot of cases) the expense of morality. In games morality and ethics have no intrinsic relationship.

    • @rubeng9092
      @rubeng9092 ปีที่แล้ว

      Roleplaying is considered a game(like when young boys play cops and robbers, or cowboys and indians), yet it has no formal rules. Driving through traffic there a formal rules to follow, yet its not a game. Videogames don't necessarily have clear objectives either, is Minecraft in creative mode a game? It still is a game, as are open world video games.

  • @tedgrant2
    @tedgrant2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What about dogs ?
    My dog looks into my eyes when I speak to him and he understands over 100 words and phrases.
    For example, he knows the difference between "get the ball" and "get off the sofa".

    • @markantrobus6794
      @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

      He also understands English!

    • @firstal3799
      @firstal3799 ปีที่แล้ว

      Your dog has a rudimentary grasp of English language

    • @tedgrant2
      @tedgrant2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@firstal3799
      Not only that, he is also conscious, just like humans !
      According to some "thinkers", that is evidence for a soul.
      So the question arises, will my dog's soul go to Heaven or Hell ?

    • @firstal3799
      @firstal3799 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@tedgrant2 definitely dogs ate conscious. To deny that is ridiculous
      Human and dog consciousness only differ on a scale.

    • @tedgrant2
      @tedgrant2 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      @@firstal3799
      But surely, I can't be more conscious than I am now ?
      I suppose I could he semi-conscious when I am very tired or drunk.
      So yes, I could be more conscious !

  • @trzztrzz2477
    @trzztrzz2477 ปีที่แล้ว

    DOVEEEFUC+ù BOGODIO HEEEEEEEEEEEEEINZ

  • @dexblue
    @dexblue 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    is it just me or ... why does it seem philosophers get tangled up with their analogies ....?

  • @vhawk1951kl
    @vhawk1951kl ปีที่แล้ว

    When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.’
    ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
    ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master - that’s all.”

    • @Philosophy_Overdose
      @Philosophy_Overdose  ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah, the Humpty Dumpty view would be one of the kinds of views of meaning that Wittgenstein would reject. Meaning is social, not individual.

    • @vhawk1951kl
      @vhawk1951kl ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Philosophy_Overdose Obviously not, or no word would mean anything to you, Although I can readily understand that you might need to go running to the flock before you could read a book, but then individuality is rare amongst human beings and for some impossible

  • @alfredhitchcock45
    @alfredhitchcock45 ปีที่แล้ว

    Picture Theory of Meaning vs Tool Theory of Meaning
    Sum total of its possible uses
    Language is indefinitely extendable
    There isn’t any single essence
    Family Resemblance Relation
    Radical attack on Pre-Existing Platonic Tradition
    Overlapping and criss-crossing set of features
    There is no one thing that it means
    Essence of Beauty and Goodness
    Look for various resembling criss-crossing similarities instead
    “Don’t ask for the meaning, ask for the use”
    Language Game
    There isn’t any foundation for the Language Games
    There must be some transcedental justification or foundation
    To give a description of how the Language Game is played

  • @charlesdavis3802
    @charlesdavis3802 ปีที่แล้ว +2

    Turing attended Wittgenstein's lectures and the influences are apparent. I'd consider that a pretty significant contribution both to math and our civilization.

    • @dx7tnt
      @dx7tnt ปีที่แล้ว

      Turing's brilliance gave us computers, but his autistic take on human beings is now holding back the whole field of AI

    • @charlesdavis3802
      @charlesdavis3802 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dx7tnt pretty cryptic. Strikes me there are a lot of things holding back AI.

    • @dx7tnt
      @dx7tnt ปีที่แล้ว

      Basically the Turing Test is completely moot.

    • @charlesdavis3802
      @charlesdavis3802 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@dx7tnt How about an update or two like : laughs at jokes at the right time and promising and the like.
      Humans chat but there are many many more language games than chat.
      There was a BBC radio quiz show in the early 30's - two players communicate in text only. One tries to guess if the other is a woman. Maybe it popped into Turnings mind.

    • @markantrobus6794
      @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

      Since Turing deciphered the Nazi codes and helped win the Second World War.

  • @IGiveYouPermission
    @IGiveYouPermission ปีที่แล้ว

    I am fascinated by the machinery of your clothing. Interesting color choices. Fundamentally an error.

  • @mazzerisk
    @mazzerisk ปีที่แล้ว

    All games have a rule or rules, duh.

  • @gurukeabba
    @gurukeabba ปีที่แล้ว

    Whatever gave him the idea that words must have some foundational /transcendental /innate meaning in the first place! I mean come on!

  • @pieterkock695
    @pieterkock695 ปีที่แล้ว

    'Btw... he would have hated the kind of thing you and and i are now doing: two professional philosophers discussing his views on television.' foaming in his grave

  • @firstal3799
    @firstal3799 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Ludwig would not exist today. Or cannot exist today

  • @rayjjohnson6332
    @rayjjohnson6332 ปีที่แล้ว

    The Greeks my friends were not language apologists...au contraire mon cheri...The Homeric invernted the game we sometimes refernt to as language χ (π)=Υπό έχετε where ypio is the institutional description defining the spread of the letters aka the real words themselves re pi fined Godellishlly into themselves to the point of the point which is the spark of an /=\ not visible in that image...
    once attaining the point of the point one is then
    allowed to
    by virtue of
    A
    proceed in/on/a round/out of/to gnomon ionic know ledge where
    one need not jump nor worry about the abyss...as the edge of the circus
    scribed by the circle is always the definition sought the very edge of
    the bag too often foisted as a box too often accepted as an arc broken into
    the egg shell that need not be put back together whence it were not smashed by
    the lived devil who live z evil when one looks the way one is not encouraged to look
    whence one eon arrive A la place dovξ mon cheri bξ now and now again you sΣΣ
    The Helen z my fiendz took the existing electric notation the lines and arrows of Sumer along with the curles and ques of the Indus melding the two into Ξlenic the |-| that just is not (-) no matter how one does not pi it until one does pi everything given the example presented by the pi ra mids in the south of northern down there across the big blue bowl of salty water Αντ silicon...
    Μένω Meno provides the map laid out in Par for the course Men Ideas and roundly scraped into a hole in the wall of a mountain in the allegory of the nut case book seventh heaven...no one will not turn into a pillar of salt by looking at the word live backwards you will only see that lived id in fact devil in ver se in ver ted and in front of your face every minute of every moment of every day since the eunichz figured out that if you lop the head
    off a cross + you get | and an |\| with the remnants INVERSE in INRI
    Thesis In veΓse Sisτουε
    The place where the original copies of the \/\/|Ξ aka the diagonal are burned
    with ritual re gale idolatry every new leader of the cult later now and now again

  • @DestroManiak
    @DestroManiak ปีที่แล้ว

    How does wittgenstein treat qualia, which notoriously eludes linguistic description?

  • @richardkrista1241
    @richardkrista1241 ปีที่แล้ว

    Picture theory of reality is a good place to start, because up to 300 million years ago, when humans as we know them now, first started to use tools, one of them was to use stones as tools to carve pictures onto their cave walls. In some cases for example, these pictures were a tool for conceptualising their desires in picture form, of the animals they wished to capture for food, and perhaps leather for clothing and bedding. So picture and tool theory wrapped up in one lol! Now these first 'humans' had nothing like our language, but the deep philosophical question is, what did they have that allowed them to begin to create language? The answer to this question is, that they had a philosophical curiosity, which is I claim, the hallmark of being human. So I claim philosophical curiosity is where the human race started, and it IS independent of language. They invented stone tools such as axes, spear-heads and flints, without the use of language. So there is a 'faculty 'of the mind that does stand outside of language. It is the 'faculty' that led to the invention of language and it is this 'faculty' that we must understand better. I believe that a useful language, for effective communication in any case, should indeed be determined by the structure of reality (Richard Krista, Ingenuity Through Philosophy: ABN 19360282316). Ingenuity Through Philosophy provides C-O-R-E, a model of the processes of organic conceptualisation of a problem and its solution and realisation. facebook.com/IngenuityThroughPhilosophy/

    • @markantrobus6794
      @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

      To enter that link you are expected to give up your personal details. Why?

    • @markantrobus6794
      @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

      300 million years?

  • @Cormagh
    @Cormagh ปีที่แล้ว

    If Searle actually believes that words do not stand for things, he is doomed to cynicism.

  • @militaryandemergencyservic3286
    @militaryandemergencyservic3286 ปีที่แล้ว

    would be nice if some examples were given about what is and isn't a meaningful statement

    • @vhawk1951kl
      @vhawk1951kl ปีที่แล้ว

      Elbows are under Wednesday.

    • @militaryandemergencyservic3286
      @militaryandemergencyservic3286 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@vhawk1951kl thanks - but I meant from these philosophy experts

    • @vhawk1951kl
      @vhawk1951kl ปีที่แล้ว

      @@militaryandemergencyservic3286 Meaningful is meaningless so good luck with that one

    • @markantrobus6794
      @markantrobus6794 ปีที่แล้ว

      Meaningful statement : the subject is the limit of the world.

    • @militaryandemergencyservic3286
      @militaryandemergencyservic3286 ปีที่แล้ว

      @@vhawk1951kl thanks - but I meant from these philosophy experts

  • @user-jv9qz2bu1r
    @user-jv9qz2bu1r ปีที่แล้ว

    I love the way Marxists play the 1984 game by changing the definitions of ordinary words: man, woman, vaccine, equity, equality, justice

  • @metalfromthearchives
    @metalfromthearchives ปีที่แล้ว +1

    What all games have in common is that they are played with the goal of achieving the aim of the game.

    • @salemsaberhagan
      @salemsaberhagan ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Sometimes people play games to deliberately mess them up. Spoilers and cheaters are both common. But no one can play a game without having players. Cheaters cannot cheat, spoilers cannot spoil, judges cannot judge, spectators cannot spectate, commenters cannot comment, gamblers cannot gamble, winners cannot win, and losers cannot lose, unless everyone actually agrees to play the game. I think that's what he was trying to get at when he said that a lot of our behaviour is social. That is also the essence of one ancient book of philosophy, the Bhagvad Gita, wherein they say that the only thing that anyone can ever really do is to act. As with fashion, so with philosophy, we have come a full circle. Nothing else is within our hands. The point of life is to live it. As Nike said, just do it.

    • @doctorrivas
      @doctorrivas ปีที่แล้ว

      Yeah. Like you play the social game for achieving its goal. What goal is that... other than playing?

    • @metalfromthearchives
      @metalfromthearchives ปีที่แล้ว

      @@doctorrivas find out the goal of that particular game and you'll know. Wittgenstein is not talking particulars.

    • @Europeista
      @Europeista ปีที่แล้ว

      Isn't the aim of any game just to engage the player?

    • @metalfromthearchives
      @metalfromthearchives ปีที่แล้ว

      @@Europeista What about zero-player games?

  • @nealblanchard6767
    @nealblanchard6767 ปีที่แล้ว +4

    Language is a prison, but or and (you decide), the more you have, the larger your cell

    • @ralfwk163
      @ralfwk163 ปีที่แล้ว

      I like that.

    • @cuppalightroast
      @cuppalightroast ปีที่แล้ว +2

      A prison from what

    • @edmundpower1250
      @edmundpower1250 ปีที่แล้ว +1

      Very true. My wife gave me a dictionary for my birthday and I can't find the words to thank her

    • @firstal3799
      @firstal3799 ปีที่แล้ว

      Not really

  • @michaelmorse7627
    @michaelmorse7627 ปีที่แล้ว

    Once Searle starts his own "critique," ca. 36;, the ferocious blindness of the man moves front and centre. A subtle but forceful reminder of the pompous stupidity of positivism. His praise for Wittgenstein's doubts about everyday theory do not contradict his earlier criticism of LW's doubts about general theory but, even worse, simply ignore them. Searle's inability to gain a coherent purview of his own reflections is exactly what Wittgenstein is talking about, and his diagnosis of why and how it happens is WAY over Searle's complacent, quasi-empty head.

  • @nelyubov285
    @nelyubov285 ปีที่แล้ว +1

    Do women find smart guys like these gentlemen attractive?

  • @brickchains1
    @brickchains1 ปีที่แล้ว

    Magee got that toad neck by the late 80s been eatin good