You know these two are amazing players as it only took them a little bit of time to adjust to the super hard reeds. Using harder reeds might be something to try in practice sessions to build strength and stamina, what do you think about this?
@@DavePollack do you think practicing on/off at high reed strength would help ? Like say a one month high strength month followed by a month on your comfortable strength so as to retain the strength gains but not stray far from your embouchures comfort zone ?
I play clarinet and started playing on stronger reeds. Not really to build strength and stamina. Rather to train myself to always have a quick and strong airstream. Something I struggled with for years. This methode really worked for me, but like Dave said it can mess up your embouchure. So be careful :)
Rigotti gold reeds are some of the finest reeds ever made! Incredible quality and workmanship! These give Vandoren Java green box a run for the money!!
What's the strongest size reed you've ever tried?? Also, discover how you can improvise beautiful melodic lines over any song with this FREE masterclass: www.davepollack.com/masterclass
When I left HS to go to Hofstra U as a music major (bari sax), I thought big numbers meant better all the way around. Played on rico royal 5 reeds for half of my college days. This was back in the late 80s/early 90s so the internets hadn't made researching this stuff easy. Met with my former HS director in 90 or 91 who guided me to to synthetic reeds. Bari was just getting going and I still swear by them. But his words were "switch to Bari reeds and go softer than you think". They only had S, M, and H at the time so I bought an S and an M and settled on the S which lasted me for many years. Still use them, and switch back and forth between various Bari reeds and various mouthpieces depending on my mood and the setting in which I'm playing. @Saxologic, I have to thank you for turning this old guy on to the Syos peeps. I have a few MPs from them on all my saxes and clarinets. Still not completely sold on them, and go back to my trusty Meyer, Berg/Larsen, and other MPs, but really appreciate their stuff, and especially LOVE O-rings instead of cork on my clarinet MPs. I swear, clarinets need to be made with o-ring tenons instead of cork, from now on!
A challenge that never crossed my mind. The highest I play is strength 4 of blue Vandoren on sopranino/yanagisawa 5 tip. I usually struggle with strength 4 on alto/tenor so I never considered buying 5 over the years. Amazing, you guys blowing away just like that on first trial! Anyway, if you jazz-tigers (copyright) can't, who can? lol
I see some small hints of Saxologic's editing finesse in this video curious if you allowed him to edit his own segments, or whether you had a crack at the saxologic video style either way, great video and great playing
The reason Nathan seemed so much more at home with the reed is because he's secretly a descendent of Charlie Parker. Don't tell him I exposed him though. Love you Nathan! Great improv from the both of you.
The Rigotti reeds are softer than other reeds however 5 is still pretty strong. I play a 4 with low effort but on a small tip opening. @Nathan, I bet you will keep playing Rigotti 5 from now on. Well done!
In Freshman year of my undergrad my teacher at the time had me play on size 5 vandoren blue boxes on my classical set up for the next year and a half. For my jazz set up, the hardest reeds I'm currently playing on now are V12's size 3.
Depending on the mouthpiece tip size, the challenge is not the same unless you guys are playing on the very similar mouthpieces. I usually play size 3/3.5 on my Joddy Jazz but I can't even sound a single note with the same reed on my Yanagisawa. But regardless, you guys nailed playing together. Big fan of both :)
Nice to hear you all battling away with a 5 reed, but how big/open are your mouthpieces? I started off playing harder reads in my 30s because I read so much about players using them, so I thought I'd try that set up. I seem to remember that Joe Lovano was also playing a very open mouthpiece and hard reed (as an example). I played a Vandoren classic 4 on an Otto Link 9* for years (although I kept some softer reads in my case if needed), it was fine up until my late 40s when I started to find getting longer phrases. Nowadays I have a much smaller tip/opening 7* and a Vandoren Classic 3, which is easier if I don't have time to practice and keep my emboucher in shape (which was also a problem).
I don't remember who it was but there was a sax player who played on size 6 Rico reeds and had to have them custom made as no reed maker makes them at that strength. Due to physical reasons, I can't play on harder reeds beyond a Legere Signature 3 on Alto and a 2.75 Legere European Cut clarinet reed on my Soprano Selmer S80 D (not sure what the equivalent soprano sax reed is).
Several orchestral clarinetists with top jobs play Vandoren 5 and 5+, but they work them down. I think if every reed player had a micrometer and measured every reed in their reed cases, just one time, the world would be a better place.
@@DavePollack I despair at the institutions and profiteering that can be avoided simply by a collective understanding of making this tool work for the player.
I think the Rigotti is thiner than their number on it. ther 3.5 is like 3 on v16 (or even maybe 2.5.) And I conclude that this reeds is life less, than other reeds after several months of using, yes they have beautiful sond and good vibration, but they lives not so long(
It sounded really weird at first because they had the technical skill and competency of a trained musician, but with that breathy and weak tone middle schoolers get.
Dave, you have a lot of younger players watching your channel. You probably should have added a caveat that playing harder reeds does not mean one is a better player and using them before you're ready can lead to embouchure problems.
Not sure what was more crazy, the reed strength or playing next to you, but I enjoyed both! Thanks for the visit, you’re welcome anytime!
Thanks so much for doing this! You killed it 💪
The emotion of Nathan was evident🤣
You sound great playing a size 5 🥴
Bruh in 8th grade I played 3.5s lol
And also 4s
You know these two are amazing players as it only took them a little bit of time to adjust to the super hard reeds. Using harder reeds might be something to try in practice sessions to build strength and stamina, what do you think about this?
That would work for air support, but it would mess up the embouchure. I play VERY loose and relaxed, and that doesn’t work on these strong reeds
@@DavePollack Good point! Thank you.
@@DavePollack do you think practicing on/off at high reed strength would help ? Like say a one month high strength month followed by a month on your comfortable strength so as to retain the strength gains but not stray far from your embouchures comfort zone ?
I play clarinet and started playing on stronger reeds. Not really to build strength and stamina. Rather to train myself to always have a quick and strong airstream. Something I struggled with for years. This methode really worked for me, but like Dave said it can mess up your embouchure. So be careful :)
you should always perform what you practice. same set up for both
Two of my favorites blowing their brains out! It’s not easy playing on a reed that size!
pause my boy
Blowing their what
Now a size 1 Rico blue box dipped in hot sauce
I literally had a Home Depot lumber ad before watching this. Very appropriate timing
You guys sound pretty good on those pieces of lumber. Bravo.
I thought this was a Bay Sessions video at first cause of Dave's shirt😂 Great video as always, you guys would sound incredible on a piece of mulch!
I think we’re now obligated to try size 5 reeds for tiktok 😂
Hah! I mean it could have been - it was 85 in Miami!!
Rigotti gold reeds are some of the finest reeds ever made! Incredible quality and workmanship! These give Vandoren Java green box a run for the money!!
What's the strongest size reed you've ever tried?? Also, discover how you can improvise beautiful melodic lines over any song with this FREE masterclass:
www.davepollack.com/masterclass
4 or was it a 2x4? Can't remember after blacking out...
3.5 for classical & 3.0 for jodyjazz jet 5
4
I play exclusively on V16 strength 5's on my tenor Otto Link
I got a box of blue Vandoren strength 3 reeds, but one of them was a 4 for whatever reason. I struggled to get a sound out of it.
Both sounded killer.
Thanks!
I have a box of vintage brown box Rico 5s. Glad to see hard reeds get proper representation
Ooh nice, that song is in a minority of songs that I rarely hear but really love 😏
😂
Hearts for the outro spaz!!!!
❤️
I was expecting a lot more figuring out embouchure and tone... turns out being good at sax also means being able to adapt to any reed size.
Surprised y'all didn't do Take 5!
Haaa
When I left HS to go to Hofstra U as a music major (bari sax), I thought big numbers meant better all the way around. Played on rico royal 5 reeds for half of my college days. This was back in the late 80s/early 90s so the internets hadn't made researching this stuff easy. Met with my former HS director in 90 or 91 who guided me to to synthetic reeds. Bari was just getting going and I still swear by them. But his words were "switch to Bari reeds and go softer than you think". They only had S, M, and H at the time so I bought an S and an M and settled on the S which lasted me for many years. Still use them, and switch back and forth between various Bari reeds and various mouthpieces depending on my mood and the setting in which I'm playing. @Saxologic, I have to thank you for turning this old guy on to the Syos peeps. I have a few MPs from them on all my saxes and clarinets. Still not completely sold on them, and go back to my trusty Meyer, Berg/Larsen, and other MPs, but really appreciate their stuff, and especially LOVE O-rings instead of cork on my clarinet MPs. I swear, clarinets need to be made with o-ring tenons instead of cork, from now on!
Y’all sound great on those reeds!
You two could have played on a wet sock and it would have sounded great! As always, a joy to watch. Love to both!
A challenge that never crossed my mind. The highest I play is strength 4 of blue Vandoren on sopranino/yanagisawa 5 tip. I usually struggle with strength 4 on alto/tenor so I never considered buying 5 over the years. Amazing, you guys blowing away just like that on first trial! Anyway, if you jazz-tigers (copyright) can't, who can? lol
wow you both sound great playing together :-D
dave would make a size 1 flavored reed and a size 15 tree trunk sound good 😏
😂😂
i use a 18 star link....with a size 10 reed on my tenor....works for me...
two guys in a room with mark vi’s.
You guys are amazing!!! I would have definitely blown a head gasket😂😂😂
Dave sounds like Dick Oatts. You are Amazing guys !
I see some small hints of Saxologic's editing finesse in this video
curious if you allowed him to edit his own segments, or whether you had a crack at the saxologic video style
either way, great video and great playing
Just me!
Such awesome playing. Good, clean studs slaying big stiff reeds. Thats solid content.
Thank you Dave!!
Both you guys are awesome.
Thank you!
saxologic really
falling in love with that tenor sax
…alto
@@DavePollack thanks for the correction. now i have to delete my comment lol. his sax neck seemed long but i was 2 blunts deep when i watched
@@squiddyjamzzzLMAO
Holy cow 😂 popsicle stick challenge! Not all size fives are the same, it had to be Rigotti on top of everything.
"Popsicle stick" lol Love it. :)
Hah! They were the only ones i could get shipped to me in time for my flight…i couldn’t imagine a 5 in some other brands
I used to like to blow 4½ and have tried 5s but that was a long time ago. I've backed way off to 2s on my tenor and 3s on alto.
No reason to play harder if it's too much I still use 3.0 on jazz narrow tip short face mouthpiece
Love you guys, you both play so beautiful!!
Size 5 with chilli sauce has to be tried
Thank you dave!
Thank you Elliott!
The reason Nathan seemed so much more at home with the reed is because he's secretly a descendent of Charlie Parker. Don't tell him I exposed him though. Love you Nathan! Great improv from the both of you.
actually, nathans mouthpiece has a bigger tip opening than daves, so it only makes sense.
This is the best you've ever sounded Mr. Pollack:)
Yo saxologic sounds so damn good.
Awesome video!!!!! Fun!
Thanks!
I haven't played on them, but Vandoren's "Black Master Traditional" clarinet reeds come in strengths as high as 6+.
is 2:15 some type of scale? that sounded so cool😂 i want to learn it
The Rigotti reeds are softer than other reeds however 5 is still pretty strong. I play a 4 with low effort but on a small tip opening. @Nathan, I bet you will keep playing Rigotti 5 from now on. Well done!
Rico orange are pretty soft but cheaper than vandoren & I go through 2 reeds a week
Next time try size 5 reeds on a Bari sax, that will be fun
In Freshman year of my undergrad my teacher at the time had me play on size 5 vandoren blue boxes on my classical set up for the next year and a half. For my jazz set up, the hardest reeds I'm currently playing on now are V12's size 3.
There must’ve been absolutely no life in your sound. Dark as hell lmao.
@@keananok eh at first yeah.😅 Eventually I adjusted an it helped with my air support so I ain't trippin about it
I use Rico Royal 4's & 5's. Grover Washington used 4's & 5's , but not bc Grover used them, but because they work for me
Depending on the mouthpiece tip size, the challenge is not the same unless you guys are playing on the very similar mouthpieces. I usually play size 3/3.5 on my Joddy Jazz but I can't even sound a single note with the same reed on my Yanagisawa. But regardless, you guys nailed playing together. Big fan of both :)
You should do this challenge again, but in Smooth Jazz mode. 😛
i have no idea why but i got a lee knoitz vibe from the sound of the 5 reed
It’s the mouthpiece(s) . Different tip openings & different mouthpieces are more reed friendly .
Loved it. Lots of fun guys.
I played on 5s with a Sigurd Rascher mouthpiece on alto when I was in high school.. (not with any other kind of mouthpiece...)
Small tip opening equals stiffer reed to me. Wide opening is softer reed. I have played 5s on clarinet :)
You guys are awesome! I'm just interested? why there are any reap practical reasons for using that hard reeds
Nice to hear you all battling away with a 5 reed, but how big/open are your mouthpieces?
I started off playing harder reads in my 30s because I read so much about players using them, so I thought I'd try that set up. I seem to remember that Joe Lovano was also playing a very open mouthpiece and hard reed (as an example). I played a Vandoren classic 4 on an Otto Link 9* for years (although I kept some softer reads in my case if needed), it was fine up until my late 40s when I started to find getting longer phrases. Nowadays I have a much smaller tip/opening 7* and a Vandoren Classic 3, which is easier if I don't have time to practice and keep my emboucher in shape (which was also a problem).
What tip openings are you 2 on? And lay length? I play a medium lay with a .086 tip on Alto. No way a 5 would even speak on my setup!
Be good to know what mouthpiece/setup you guys were both using in this vid!
I don't remember who it was but there was a sax player who played on size 6 Rico reeds and had to have them custom made as no reed maker makes them at that strength. Due to physical reasons, I can't play on harder reeds beyond a Legere Signature 3 on Alto and a 2.75 Legere European Cut clarinet reed on my Soprano Selmer S80 D (not sure what the equivalent soprano sax reed is).
Once i've seen a guy playing on a size 5 reed with a 10* tipopening 🤯
Whaaaat
I haven't heard that tune for so long, that I even forgot it's name. Anyone?
I think it's Minority, Gigi Gryce maybe?
@@FoolishFrankie Thank you! That's the one.
I have a 3.5 vandoran reed
I never tried a 5 before it looks brutal to play lol
Oh it is 😂
@@DavePollack ouch well I'm going to stick to my 2.5 reeds 😂😭
Someone I know plays on a plastic 6 reed for tenor, blows my mind
Several orchestral clarinetists with top jobs play Vandoren 5 and 5+, but they work them down. I think if every reed player had a micrometer and measured every reed in their reed cases, just one time, the world would be a better place.
😂 oh man…i’ve NEVER clipped/trimmed/sanded/etc. a reed down in my life…i couldn’t imagine doing that. Slap new reed on…works? Great. Doesn’t? Bye bye
@@DavePollack As Joe Allard said, "Everything you do to the horn to make it sing, you do to the reed."
@@DavePollack I despair at the institutions and profiteering that can be avoided simply by a collective understanding of making this tool work for the player.
what song did you play?
Bird played on hard reeds, the story was that he would take a nickel and burn it harder with a match.
What does reed strength change?
I think it depends of the tip opening, a 5 reed on a 9* mouthpiece must be completely impossible to blow
Ask Stan Getz, he did it for most of his career XD
I think the Rigotti is thiner than their number on it. ther 3.5 is like 3 on v16 (or even maybe 2.5.) And I conclude that this reeds is life less, than other reeds after several months of using, yes they have beautiful sond and good vibration, but they lives not so long(
This video is 5:55 using size 5 reeds…
👀
What a good catch!!!!
gerry mulligan was known for playing size 5 reeds
Challenge? I don't buy anything but 5s on my Otto link.
#beastmode
Surprised sound even came out.
Grey video, guys!
I thought they were hardnesses not sizes
That's what we mean when say "size" - it's commonly used (as is strength)
It's been said that Michael Brecker had played on a La Voz "Extra Hard" reed. That may have been a 5, if the story is true.
No. Medium Hard
Hard reeds require more air and chop's of steel.
I prefer soft reed narrow tip for ease of control on jazz mouthpiece
@@jackcraven7979 soft reed with a narrow tip opening are the sound of a 5th grade beginner.
@@grantkoeller8911 sure sure dude I play jody jazz jet 5 it sounds great to me
@@jackcraven7979 Jody jazz jet 5 ( .070") is not small tip, it is way larger than Yamaha 4C ( .063")
Bird played hard reeds and about a 70 tip....
What was the tune that they played?
Minority
What tip opening on the mouthpieces were you using?
Asking the real questions. Size 5 with a small tip opening isn't bad. Try a size 5 with an Otto Link 10* mouthpiece sometime :-)
I use a 5 - no idea what Nathan uses
What the tune????
Minority - Gigi Gryce
Never heard the term "size" attributed to a reed
Am I the only who realized the video is 5:55 😂
👀
This would give me a hernia.
Pet peeve : it's reed strength, not size.
It sounded really weird at first because they had the technical skill and competency of a trained musician, but with that breathy and weak tone middle schoolers get.
Dave, you have a lot of younger players watching your channel. You probably should have added a caveat that playing harder reeds does not mean one is a better player and using them before you're ready can lead to embouchure problems.
It's a "number 5" reed, not "size 5".
...you're welcome
- Mr. Knowitall.
Good video though !
reed strength not size lol
So that’s actually a STRENGTH 5 red. It’s a size Alto.