What’s your fav Disney movie? Are there any LGBTQ or gender variant moments in it?✨ Use DREAMSOUNDS to get 55% off your first month at Scentbird sbird.co/3vXXoYE Also, a correction: I don't know how I left out Raine Whispers from The Owl House, Disney's first non-binary character. So sorry about that!
1. I don't know how many people thought about this but in Hunchback, Esmeralda disguises herself as an old man using Djali the grey beard poking out for maximum effect. 2. I'm surprised there wasn't a tiny clip from the B&B castle siege where (despite the castle coming to life, people being set on fire, many sharp knives) the wardrobe does in two of the villagers with a /makeover/, they look at each other then down at themselves and run away screaming in terror because "in dresses!!!!" (The twist they gave this in the live action was really the *only* thing I found entertaining; most likely because that actor was serving how fabulous that ensemble felt.)
Well my favorite is Cinderella, someone who shows incredible kindness in face of people who hurt her and pull her down, she has qualities that show to be strong doesn’t mean to be brash or fight. The transformation of your hearts desire and experience a world where one can finally be a part of, A personification of her hope being fairy godmother. It’s my absolute favorite Disney animated film.
Marlene, maybe as someone who speaks both english and german you could talk about translation of non-binary characters in other countries? As more nb characters appear on american shows it was interesting to see how translators worked with it in more gendered languages and how nb community in general interacts with such languages.
This is a great idea, I might do this in the future! Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately I don’t think the Disney catalogue has enough to go off of for a whole video, but I would love to talk about the difference in non-binary identities as they relate to translation once Disney has more representation. If you’re interested, on my second channel I made a video back when I identified as non-binary called “Being Non-Binary: A Complicated Song” that talks a lot about the differences between expressing enby identities in English and German th-cam.com/video/Te3SJDFpLz4/w-d-xo.html
fun fact: Kirby is actually genderless in the Japanese translations of the games. They used He/Him pronouns for Kirby in the American translations for cultural appropriation. so yes, Kirby is canonically nonbinary!...in Japan, at least. 🤍💛💜🖤
I was pretty disapointed when I switched to the German Dub of She-Ra and the Princesses of Power and they used Er/Ihm (masculine) for Double Trouble who used they/them in the original. They used Sie/Ihr for the person Edric was dating in The Owl House instead of they/them, too. I hope they won't mess up Raine when they air those episodes. German still has a lot to learn
@@apples4911 Wait, really? I’ve never heard of this before. I feel like the Kirby anime (which I eventually watched in Japanese) always referred to Kirby with he/him pronouns. Maybe that’s a fansub issue?
I find it even more so when the "what about the children?!" narrative is used to criticize animation when it was never meant for children. Every era has had very obvious standouts on this matter. (Think Fritz The Cat or Heavy Metal) Not to mention; ask anyone who is an anime fan and they'll give you a massive social, economic, and cultural explanation for the dominance of animated entertainment in Japan and probably a good amount of it's history as well.
Some things r acceptable, soeme things r not. Most of us dont care until you try to force your ideology, not only onto us, but our children. Leave our d*mn kids alone!!!!
@@DanceArchives24 About 99% of all media for children push an ideology. Almost all children shows have a "moral" at the end of the episode. The episode's lesson. If you will. Almost none of it has to do with anything LGBTQ+ related. But funny how nobody complains about those ideologies being pushed.
@@DanceArchives24 when kids too often prefer to kill themselves rather than live in your oppression, I would say "our agenda" of inclusivity and acceptance is far more moral and OK.
I wanted to compliment your voice. Your singing and speaking voice sound so calming and enjoyable to listen to and I always look forward to watching your videos since they make me feel like I'm in a music class all about Disney, you research these subjects so well. With this video that the scene with the pirate getting a jar thrown at him these old cartoons made me realize how frequent it was to show effeminate male characters showed up, do something sassy, and immediately follow it by getting physically attacked for comedic purposes. That's unfortunately really common in old cartoons.
I remember a lot of, for lack of a better term, cross-dressing gags in media I consumed as a child. And looking back, I can see that it can be played in two ways. One is the "forced into drag" trope when, for some reason, a male character has to put on a dress or even pretend to be female, and the joke is often that it's humiliating. Sure, tropes are tools and sometimes this one is used to teach a misogynistic character that girls and women don't have it easy and they learn that by, well, walking a mile in their shoes, so to speak. Or to not bully boys or men who are a bit effeminate. But most of the time, sad to say, it's just for a gag and a short bit of humiliation. Because wearing a dress is tantamount to prat-falling, I guess. Then there is the one where doning drag is done not only by free will, but empowers the character. Once again, tropes are tools, and can be used for good or bad or simply handled better or poorly. If we compare the videos example of Big Bad Wolf with another famous animated cross-dresser, Bugs Bunny, I say the trope isn't necessarily in Bugs case that the joke is "Oh, the male Bunny is wearing womens clothing, haha!" But "Oh, look at the clever Bunny fooling his/their tormentor". Bugs often puts on disguises, and if that disguise is male or female is less important to him as to what suits the occasion. Bugs doesn't humiliate himself when putting on a skirt and wig, it empowers him. Funnily enough, there is a Disney example where these two, the unwilling/humiliated one and the one who just goes all in for it are contrasted for comedy's sake. In the episode "Adventures in Squirrel-sitting" from Rescue Rangers, Chip and Dale dress up in drag to sneak into Fat Cats Casino. When Dale comes out in a dress and wig he has fully embraced the role, doing a sexy pose and just enjoys it, while Chip who comes in after him are stomping, frowning and his whole body-language clearly signaling "I hate this stupid idea". (Also, this trope is oooold! There is an old Norse Myth when Thor has to disguise himself as a bride (more specifically the goddess Freiya as a bride) to get his hammer back. Hyper-Masculine Thor despises this but Loki, ever the trickster, ever dancing on the border, is in most retellings delighted by this and either disguises himself or uses magic to physically transform into Thors Bridesmaid. Thors humiliation is emphasised by the fact that to Loki it's not bad at all, he is actually capable of enjoying it). Just an observation I've made.
my favourite example of cross dressing in childrens media is James from Team rocket. He crossdressd (along side jessie) a lot in earlier seasons of pokemon. yes it was to trick the main characters so he could steal their pikachu but, he genuinly enjoyed it and nobody made fun of him for dressing in drag. Just the characters got suprised it was him all along and irritated that they stole pikachu again. y favourite example from james though it from a later season where he ross dressed to help Jessie. Jessie in her spare time loved to do something known as a contest battle, a very feminin side minigame in the videogames and was very feminin potrayed in the anime as typically the female travel partner of ash was involved and rarely if ever ash himself taking part. it was the 'girls turn' in the spotlite in episodes surrounding contests. But jessie got sick one day and couldnt compete and james, being a genuinly good friend cross dressed as her contest alter ego to attemt to win the prize for her. Not only did he enjoy partaking in the contest himself, he won, swimmingly. He was the first main male character to win a ribbon and in that season, the first of the main characters to win a contest, before Dawn, the female protagonist of the searies. he still dresses in drago occasionally, but not as often but i wish he did. it was an aspect that helped me understand i was queer in some way as i wanted to 'be him'. i wanted to be a masc leaning person who could cosplay for fun occasionally. just an aspect of him that is never really treated as a queerphobic joke, just the antics surrounding him in drag could be seen as humerous, not the drag itself, and thats refreshing suprisingly
As a trans woman who is often mistaken as a crossdressinng man online I don't really feel particularly empowered by those old Bugs Bunny skits. Its true that Bugs usually wasn't the butt of the joke himself, but it was still inherently linking gender variance with deception and the butt of the joke is more often than not, just that the bad guys genuinely perceived Bugs as a woman, even in some cases developing a romantic attraction to him. The idea that the only people who could see me as the gender I identify as or be attracted to a woman who fails to live up to cishetero gender norms are as cartoonishly stupid as Yosemite Sam or Elmer Fudd is actually pretty damn disheartening.
that's why I loved the old comedy movie Some Like It Hot (1959 Marilyn Monroe movie ♥) growing up even though it was already super old when I was a kid. two men dressing in drag to hide from the mafia after witnessing a murder. one of them suffers the whole time because he has feelings for the sweet blonde in the women's music troop they're hiding amongst and feels he can't share them, and the other one winds up having such a grand time and so empowered he potentially marries a man who fell in love with his female persona at the end (but states he doesn't care once he finds out). it's played for sillies but there's no judgment placed on the characters for it and I always thought that was oddly wholesome for the time.
I love that movie and think it's a really interesting example of gender variance being part of a joke without feeling that negative. I don't really know why I feel that way, as the movie certainly checks off many transphobic stereotypes. But I think the wholesome nature of the performances and story make it feel more like a positive testament to gender variance, especially how the film seems to promote breaking down gender roles. A lot of very unique things especially for a movie from 1959
Another example of characters in drag/cross dressing in children’s media is Big Macintosh in the My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic episode Brotherhooves Social. In the episode, Apple Bloom is sad her only sister Applejack won’t be able to go to the Sisterhooves Social with Apple Bloom. Big Mac wants to be with his youngest sister again, so he dresses up as a mare to be in the Sisterhooves Social with Apple Bloom, and Big Mac pretends to be a cousin named Orchard Blossom. There’s a running gag that an elder stallion hits on Orchard/Big Mac, because heteronormativity in 2015. After it’s revealed Orchard is a stallion named Big Mac, it was soon revealed that the word “Sister” in Sisterhooves Social is not exclusive to female ponies. I do get the whole point of this episode is that Big Mac wants to reconnect with his much younger sister (the moral being something about family), but it just so happened to be “oh let’s put a stallion in a dress” so to speak. The episode soon happened to be somewhat offensive towards trans people.
another subtle detail i think is worth noting with the wolf, is the choice of using a fairy. like you said, being gay and being trans have always had ties with each other in societal perception, and "fairy" is a slur for gay men. this reinforces both the "haha, man in dress" stereotype and the devaluing of femininity in men and queerness
Boycotts aren't the things that work, it's the bad P.R. that gets them. Disney was more upset about being uncovered donating to the politicians than looking complicit. And as such, said politicians are angrier that they've lost a Sugar Daddy than Disney taking a weak stance after said bad PR was hurting them. This wasn't just them weaponizing memberberries the way they did about Dr. Seuss's estate discontinuing books NO ONE was reading or turning into Illumination movies or Netflix limited series, or Pepe LePew not being in a movie no one over the age of 12 was going to want to see. This was them pouring pure scorn because Disney wasn't bribing them for theme park purposes.
Love the nuanced take on crossdressing. And it really is hard trying to figure out if some crossdressing scenes are jokes (that queer people are free to reclaim) or can be read as positive for the most part. Kinda shows how comedy and jokes can be more complicated than the usual "if I laugh that's comedy" view
I always was sort of confused about why being gay, and being trans, _and_ crossdressing was so often lumped together in media, this really helped not only understand our history as a community a little better, but understand how much worse the anti-trans agenda was back then. Our society (not just America, Lord help the poor trans Souls in the UK and Russia) is still making baby steps towards being more accepting of trans people, but I'm glad that Disney of all corporations is making even the tiniest steps. :-)
I saw your tweet about this video and I clicked right away! The right are the same people who complain about censorship of old TV shows/ kids books that pushed explicitly racist ideology. I'm writing a full episode ranking of a kids show from the 60s and whilst I'm trying not to judge the merit of the overall episode based on racist villains (yellowface etc.), I'm having to mention it for parents and caregivers because I know that kids shouldn't be exposed to these presentations before they can understand the historical context. I also want to make sure that parents don't stop their kids form watching the show entirely because of a few episodes. Then again, the protagonists cross dress a lot as a plot device, so at least it's nice to see gender variance sometimes used positively in the show. There's even a character that is only cross dressed because one of the lead actors really wanted to play her and it's probably the highlight of the show!
Why is it respecting other human beings an agenda??? It's almost as if these people had an agenda themselves... 🤔 As always, incredible video Marlene!!! Also, related to the "Pixar is looking for a trans VA" when I heard that, I had a theory that probably Miriam from Turning Red was going to be that trans character, (I'm trans MtF myself) although it wasn't, it fitted like.. really well for me (specially since Mei's mom is displeased with her being her friend) for me, now it's like a private head cannon, which honestly really gives me hopes of what they can do if they propose themselves to actually doing actual representation.
I'm honestly not sure where Pleakley falls into this, but he's the first character that pops into my mind when I think about Disney's history with gender variance, crossdressing. and either tasteful or mocking depictions. IIRC, I remember him being not too harshly judged for being an allegorically gay man that is also literally a double crossdresser on both gender and species boundaries, but at the same time, it's hard to tell when the joke is that he's extra and when it's that he's wearing women's clothing and acting somewhat effeminate...AS A MAN!?
it helps that on the whole Pleakly's crossdressing isn't really portrayed negatively, it's generally not bothering msot of the cast and he does it of his own free will.
Now that I know I'm a gender nonconforming trans man and not a woman I feel a strange kinship with pleakley when watching the lilo and stitch franchise. Part of me knows that the joke is that he wears feminine clothing, and probably in part it's meant to be an extension of the joke that he isn't really as knowledgeable about the earth and human culture as he thinks he is. But I still struggle to feel offended by it, and if anything I just appreciate it. Plus there's the angle that it could have been a "deceiving people" thing as it is part of his disguise around humans, but then part of the joke is that he genuinely enjoys dressing up like that and even starts doing it when he doesn't need to. And again it's a joke, and I'm referring to it as such because it is so obviously one, but it still doesn't feel insulting? It's a strange position to be in for sure
Not only is DeSantis' point homophobic and transphobic, in implication, at the very least...it's like "oh no. Parents are expected to parent. Actually monitoring what their kids watch and talk to them about it and instill beliefs, themselves. The horror." 🙄
Which is really funny when his main defense against educating kids about sexuality and gender in schools is that "parents can teach those subjects to their children themselves". Yet apparently those same parents are so incompetent that they need a nanny state to dictate the sorts of stories told through mainstream media (stories that would also make those subjects easier to explain without school nonetheless)
there already is a Disney trans character though?? there's Raine Whispers, a trans-nonbinary character who goes by they/them, in Disney's "The Owl House" tv show. they're a side character though are also a pivotal character in the show and are engaged in a Will They/Won't They romance with a main character, Eda "The Owl Lady" Clawthorne. they're also voiced by a nonbinary actor, Avi Roque. i will admit there has yet to be a trans-binary character or a trans main character or a trans character in one of their movies, as far as I'm aware. though for the trans main character part: Luz from "The Owl House" was originally supposed to be nonbinary, and she is a main character and often engages with gender nonconforming outfits, but I don't think they have made her explicitly nonbinary within the text of the show(? I could be wrong bc I have memory loss, but yeah) that may have been one of the changes Dana Terrace was forced to make in adapting the original concept she had into television. so though i do get your point from one of these more specific avenues, I do also want to point out that there has been movement towards trans characters of all kinds being more accepted within the Disney brand
Seeing DeSantis claim that you could watch cartoons without having to worry years ago is funny and someone I follow on Twitter pointed this out when he brought up how Bugs Bunny has kissed men and cross dressed for years and no rational individual has cared or gotten upset about that.
Kids wanted to wear what they wanted before the visibility of lgbtq+ cartoon characters. You can't stop who someone is. And why the f would you want to mold your own child into a straight cis nightmare if that's not who they are.... I'm glad growing up I was allowed to wear sneakers, play video games and dress boyishly. I never recall my mother forcing me to dress any way. I could also watch any cartoon and no cartoons affected who I was inside in regard to gender or orientation. Cartoons just taught me life lessons, made me laugh, and taught me about love and bravery.
For real. People act like this is something just *now* happening. There have been lgbt folk all throughout history, but very rarely were they ever public about it in fear that they will be mocked, beaten, incarcerated, or killed. At least now, people are realizing that it has never been ok for us to so much as have human rights and voices for other people, and are making an effort to give us a voice. Then the fucks that want to keep us out of sight and out of mind are trying to control media and television like its their right to stay superior on top of us.
Yeah. And every LGBTQ teacher has 7 LGBTQ FLAGS, 80 stickers in his classroom, half the time is spent talking about whose pronunciation is from a teacher / student. And of course, don't tell your parents at home what we talked about.
I would love to hear your input and thoughts on the flying mouse silly symphony short. As someone who is trans and watched the short a lot as a child honestly it still sticks with me, and honestly depicts some of my biggest fears around transition. It's got such clear trans themes (although unfortunately in a more negative light) yet I never see anyone talking about it!
Also Archie, I don't know which direction you're going with your transition, but I know/follow some pretty awesome people who are extremely open, informative, detailed, honest (some parts are emotionally trying: extremely slow before any treatments - let alone change - occurs, or others physically uncomfortable) accounts of their journeys. I do *not* know a single person who regretted living their life as the gender they knew themselves to be. Trust me, I know (and have known) *a lot* of people all over the gender spectrum. More than being free from gender dysphoria is the experience of gender *euphoria* - find those moments for yourself. (I have a background in Psychology with a subspecialty in Human Sexuality and Gender Studies, so aiding and supporting the LGBTQIA+ community is my main purpose.) If you'd like links to videos on the topics I mentioned, I'd be glad to divvy them up for you.
Thanks for talking about this, my parents literally canceled our disney plus subscription over this. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY MOVIES ARE ON DISNEY PLUS????
DeSantis is an absolute clown. My parents worried like crazy over how cartoons would influence me. They wouldn’t let me watch Ren & Stimpy at all because of its weird and sadistic feel. And after finding out what a monster John K is, I’m happy they didn’t let me watch it. Cartoons back in the day were chock full of awful messages that encouraged transphobia and racism and ableism. Cartoons today are at least trying to move past that and I can hardly consider that indoctrination.
Wonderful video yet again Marlene! So many people are so eager to cast aside media, yet don’t they know that their ancestors have been protesting the same thing? They’re not the only ones that can look with Rose color glasses.
Lovely video once again! I've always loved whenever women would voice male characters in animation. I've been hyperfocusing on the Simpsons something fierce and like, realizing almost all the boys are voiced by women is one of my favourite parts about it. As I'm exploring my gender identity, I've found myself quite chuffed to discover I can do impressions of both naive little Ralph and bumbling oaf Chief Wiggum. ...in my head, at least. I'm too shy to listen back to 'em due to anxiety regarding my own voice and accent. It's probably not on-point at all, but I'm having fun! Can't help but wonder if those people who say "cartoons are pushing agendas" are aware of the fact that the earliest forms of animation were rarely aimed at children to begin with and often included adult subjects... I think about European animation a lot (even if half of them were animated in Japan, haha.) They've always been a lot more loose and relaxed with subjects, but I don't recall any gender exploration in the ones I've seen? If there are any I'd love to know more about them!
Regarding your second paragraph, I made this exact same point/observation in reply to another comment (😃 ooh ~ matching wavelengths ~ 😎) Regarding your first portion/paragraph - perhaps a way for you to feel a bit more comfortable verbalizing the voices would be using some of their most meme-d phrases "jokingly" in conversation (that way you wouldn't be outing yourself - you're just "doing impressions" even if they're a little rough at first you could sort of paint it like this is a new interest and so you're getting practice to hone your technique). Eg for Ralph: (Tee hee) I'm in danger. Choo-choo-choose ----
@@searchingfororion Haha, rad! And I can say I've quoted some choice Ralphisms to "impress" people before... always worried my dfab's too obvious for the guys, but it sort of works for kid characters? A friend of mine who's a cis guy and aspiring VA just rattled off like.... half of the cast once, and it made me self-conscious and impressed at the same time. Reminds me, I would find it interesting to learn more about trans voice actors! I still miss Maddie Blaustein dearly.
@@finchvink I'm not an expert on that unfortunately. The only real cross gender voice acting trivia I have is that the woman who did the voice of Chucky from Rugrats (I don't know if it's the same person in any of these other versions) VOed for *tons* of shows with a rather diverse character line-up. Did you watch Dreamsounds video about the trans voice actress for the Spanish language version of The Little Mermaid? I'm curious what accent you have that makes you feel unsure about your vocals.
@@finchvink I apologise - I wrote a better comment/reply but YT apparently stripped it upon posting. (My theory is that I used the "Q" word, which they were supposed to have stopped policing on this channel ages ago.) I'll have to wait until I'm feeling a bit better to try to re-write it.
Thank you for posting this. I know it's not enough nor fast enough, but I'm still grateful that the young people in my life are starting to see themselves represented in media.
As an 80's pre-school kid I found crossdressing in cartoons just fascinating, not funny. But looking back it is true, that Disney went towards laughing AT the crossdresser while WB went the road of laughing with or even cheering for the crossdresser - since in Bugs' case, he was the hero. At Disney, the queer coded ones were mostly the villians maybe except for Robin Hood. I really loved the 3 pigs cartoon back then and crushed bad on Robin Hood AND Maid Marian, but I just found Robin as vixen fortune teller sassy and the wolf as "fairy" lovely. I had no idea ... Also fairy is not a slur used for gay men in my country.
this isn't really an example of gender variance but on the topic of seeing ourselves and empathizing with stories that weren't intended for us. i've recently become... a bit obsessed with viewing Pinocchio of all things with a queer lense. over-analyzing and reading the disney adaption as a trans story etc etc. his dream to become a real boy and learning what it means to be a real boy is one i think that's really profound to me, especially as a trans man myself. it's a cool thing to think about i suppose, and your videos like this really emphasize the power that can have. thanks for another great video!
"when we were little we could watch cartoons and not worry about the ideology their were spreading" the ideologies they were spreading in cartoons (and TV shows and movies) for the entirety of the 21st century: LITERAL r4acism, eurocentrism, white supremacy, colorism, anticommunism, re-writing of historical events, colonialism, sexism, misogyny, violence, pro-war propaganda, xenophobia, orientalism, ageism, ableism, capitalist-realism, environmental-fatalism. NOTHING TO WORRY JUST ALL THE LITERAL WAYS TO DESTROY HUMANKIND AND THE EARTH.
This was SUCH a well done video! The history of queerness in media is such an interesting topic, but it can be overwhelming to know where to start when it comes to research. Your video are always super educational and interesting! Thank you so much!
I don`t think that wolf crossdressing is necessarily about gender. A character trying to appear to be somebody else to eat kids is a common trope in folklore. In my country there is a fairytale where a wolf changes his voice so that goatlings would think he`s their mother, while the same thing happens in a fairytale when a witch (or a female snake) wants to steal a boy. Although maybe I don`t entirely understand the context of the US at the time and Disney added this subtext too.
I think the wolf as he appears in the Disney short is definitely influenced by US-American attitudes of the time. Disney found a lot of inspiration in fairytales for their cartoons, but ultimately the comedy and the ways in which gender was presented aren’t that different than standard comedy of the time (I.e. the wolf cross-dressing as the grandmother is part of the story, but the other scene I focus on seems specifically US-American, I mean, the song he does about being a fairy hints at tropes common in queerphobic attitudes of the time.) But I think you have a good point, because when these elements are sometimes in the original stories for different reasons, it’s a bit unfair to view it only within the lens of US culture. Also, do you mind me asking what is the name of the story you’re referring to about the wolf changing his voice?
@@DreamsoundsVideo oops, the The Wolf and the Seven Young Goats" (Der Wolf und die sieben jungen Geißlein) is actually german, not ours like the snake one. I had a beutiful book as a kid with the mother-goat in national clothes, so I did not remember it as german, my bad.
Pleakley's representation started as a "haha dressing like a woman" joke but over time developed into something that was really reassuring and encouraging for me as a kid.
So I know it's to make a point, but I'm getting so tired of having to hear the awful things being said by various US politicians trying to rile up their base in videos. I know they are awful, and I have to hear them everywhere, be it their channels trying to push it at me, the news reporting that they said it, or videos deconstructing what they said but still playing it back. In a way it actually is spreading their own hateful messages further, even if for the purpose of pushing back against them. It just makes it harder watching videos like this because I know I'll have to listen to them say awful things again just to get to hear the dissenting opinion. Still going to watch the rest of the video and support, but getting hit with DeSantis in the first 7 seconds was just like "ugh no please I'm so tired of hearing this."
Eh... I grew up with a cross dressing rabbit, and nobody ever batted an eye back then. I never even questioned it as a kid. I dunno what the problem is these days.
Men who grew up in the 90's: cartoons were free from gay and trans people back in the day, making them safe and far better. When men were MANLY. He-man: *points at She-Ra, O-em, Orko, Man-at-arms, Double-Trouble and all the others * ...ummm? What are we then?
I think a lot of male characters are voice by females in Japan. I think older cartoons had plenty to worry about. Sure it's done in an overly silly way but honestly things like Looney Toons and Tom and Jerry were kind of violent. It's mostly done in an overly silly way, so I guess adults don't see it as an issue? Not to mention all the offensive things.
Why can't we just be like the Brits with doctor who????? We get an openly trans actor/actress during tennant's role. Have an openly gay man play jack Harkness with his character himself being omnisexual. And we're getting another openly Trans actress on the casting list and no one is throwing a fit over it
Brits love a moral panic but it's usually only explicitly right wing media with zero illusion of respectability that complains about representation in TV shows. Things like trans women authors winning prizes is a more likely talking point for British journalists invested in fuelling the trans moral panic. It makes them seem like they're intellectuals with "reasonable concerns".
You have indeed always been here and always will be. I know horrible hateful idiots yell the loudest but know that you (meaning both you, Marlene the person and you, the whole trans community) have love and support from allies both from within and outside the lgbtqa+ community covering your backs. I'm both happy and proud that you feel like you finally can show the person you really are to the internet and people outside of your friend group. I don't know if this is me just thinking I hear or feel something that isn't there but to me you sound more relaxed in your newest videos, almost as if you now can breathe more freely. Thank you for making videos that are sad, funny, beautiful and important and please do take care of yourself.
Now it’s animation Before it was ballet & opera 2 jobs & art form that began as male only employed, the ones picked to be the “females” in ballet had to dress the part & be delicate. While in opera, the chosen “females” were preteen boys that look feminine or castrated men, surgically fixed to keep their voice high pitched as possible.
Honestly, as someone in the LGBT+ community, I love that huge companies such as Disney are trying to give us good representation, however I feel like they're just doing it bc it's trendy. My best example of this is The Owl House, a newer Disney show, it has so much diversity and started in 2020 but is getting canceled bc "it doesn't fit the Disney agenda". Even though some may say it's not because of homophobia or any prejudice, I can't help but to think it is. Star vs The Forces of Evil had a similar plot, magic girl goes to planet earth, in The Owl House it's kinda the opposite, human girl goes to magic world. Star vs The Forces of Evil lasts four seasons but Owl House will only last for three; Star never had the "it doesn't fit the Disney agenda" but Owl House did. That's all I have to say, Disney is taking steps but it feels like a trend rather than genuine (bc they're a huge company who have to please the masses)
"In a world where queer representation is still not a given, agency over what we consume, and creating our own spaces with that can be a super power." SO FUCKIN POWERFUULLL AND REEAALL
I'd like to see a video on queer characters in video games, the character Spar in Breath of Fire II is in my opinion non-binary, would like to see anyone else's thoughts on this.
Clarence Nash (Donald Duck) also voiced Daisy Duck in her first cartoon (Mr Duck Steps Out (1940)), he also voiced her predecessor/prototype Donna in Don Donald (1937).
@Aethelwyne Blackwood well would be a bit strange if it was a black or asian woodsman, i mean the story is from, idk, 12th century rural northern europe. Good/bad depiction wasn't my point anyway, just wanted to point out disney didn't come up with the wolf crossdressing.
left: *criticizes Disney for half a century* right: "look at those radicals who HATE FUN, hahaha i bet they hate kids" Disney: *sells rainbow flavored cake ONCE* right: "INDOCTRINATION REEEEEEEEEEEEE"
@@lina8812 MF is a children’s puppet character that was a originally written to the be the shows comic relief daredevil, Jim Henson would laugh so hard at this shite. Gonzo was cool as hell when I was a kid, I remember him on the original muppet show, now the kids need to see him in a dress for whatever reason? Not sure why but eh, I look forward to Fozzy bears coming out or miss piggy’s female to male transition
@@PeterPumpkinEater75 as someone who grew up on the muppet show and he’s dressed up in pink leotards and tutus since the 80s. It just shows that kids don’t really care how or what a character does it’s the adults that care.
The edited big bad wolf in the thumbnail funnily reminds me of how he was portrayed in Shrek. The gender confused big bad wolf lmao, I guess Shrek parodied it years before Disney actually did it.
maybe i just mis understood and i apologize for this but about the voice actors portraying a character other than their gender point. (bit extensive sorry but im interested in behind the scenes stuff like this in medis ^^'') Its extremely common if not expected for Female voice actors to potray younger male characters (typically boys/teenagers who's voice who hasn't dropped yet) because its easier for women to imitate a younger male voice than it is for a male VA to do the same (their voices are normally deeper). There are cases where male VAs can do a good enough job at portraying a young boy's voice and cases where male vas can do a female voice too Sonia from sonic underground shares the same voice actor as her siblings Sonic and Manic who are both male). one example of a voice actor accidently getting the genders of a character wrong so tried to make the voice fit the gender is Derpy(aka Bubbles) from my little pony friednship is magic.A background character turned fan favourite after an animation error depicted her as cross-eyed. the VA in her first debuted wasn't clearly told what gender the character was and so she guessed the character was male, so gave her a deeper voice-or as deep as the VA could go. this was funny considering the whole reason why the character got popular was due to an error, and the character is now associated with a different error. In cases like that its mainly because; its cheaper than hiring another voice actor if you only have one main female character and the show is on an extremely low budged (sonic underground was compared to other sonic cartoons at the time)so you use what talent you already have, if the voice actor fits then it ends up cheaper so the budget can go elsewhere, some VAs are extremly talented and their voice pool is varied- just like how some actors are fit for a type cast roll whilst others are flexible and can play whatever whenever. again maybe i miss inteporated what you said in the video and i'm sorry if thats the case, just thought i'd add a bit about what i know about VAs here.
I just don't like it when comedy thinks that crossdressing is a joke in and of itself. You have to have something funny or interesting happening in the story, not just "haha man in dress funny". And many hack writers don't want to put the effort in.
Red riding Hood‘s been around 100 years bugs bunny’s been around 40 years so the stories been like that for so long I don’t know the issue is so one of the boy character dress up as a girl It’s part of the cartoon to get away from Eating the thing for gays at all
when i was a kid, i watched rocky and bullwinkle, fractured fairy tales, george of the jungle, etc.....trust me....those toons are subversive never mind all the kroft shows with their drug humor and visuals
I mean, I think Walt Disney voiced Minnie because there wasn't anyone else to and her lines were brief. For the other examples, I agree - and I think that goes to show how fluid these categories of gendered voices are and that they've already been like that for a long time
I never saw the crossdressing in old cartoons as trans or anything with an angenda. I just thought if ur trying to avoid a male character, ur not gonna expect the person is disguised as a woman. If the villian is a dude, ur not gonna run from a girl ya know?
Disney has always always always been a very conservative company. In recent times, when directors want to create queer characters it is Disney itself that stops them. the case of the creator of gravity falls is well known, who wanted to include a gay couple in his series but disney never let him (the two cops where intented to be in a relationship) , or the case of the gay kiss in star vs the forces of evil where disney said ok but have to be very unnoticed in very extra characters. there are many examples like this, even very recent ones like in Encanto (where disney didn't like that Luisa's design was so "masculine" and the designers had to push hard to get it accepted). So when I found out that there were a lot of people angry that Disney was pro-gay, I was very confused. Are they talking about the same disney that I know? How disgustingly conservative and stupid do you have to be to get mad that a company that has been shown countless times to be very conservative and not very gay friendly does something slightly , SLIGHTLY decent towards minorities? from what i saw on social media, almost everyone acted as if disney had done or said something very strong pro lgbt+ what a bunch of grown babies crying in non-queer related disney posts saying "go woke go broke" like what? What are you talking about? what wokeness??? I honestly can't with all this. every day i understand more when god once said "you know what? fuck this" and proceeded to flood and kill all humans.
It's not a trans phobic thing, but I honestly find men dressed as women funny looking. It's the clash of styles; big scraggly beard while wearing a frilly dress. It's silly! IDK why that's offensive to find something funny when it's 100% someone's choice to wear. What's not funny is to find something funny that someone can't help.
Ron DeSantis is the sitting governor of a US state. Im not saying i expect republican governors to be great people or super progressive but is it to much to ask that they're at least more interested in doing their actual jobs instead of producing the same culture war vomit i could get from a youtuber with a cartoon animal avatar and 15,000 subscribers?
So, I come from this in a background as a trans person, but also as someone who loves a lot of old cartoons, and I cannot believe I'm about to say this, but of all character groups that got it right.... strangely, it was the Looney Tunes. And for a similar reason as to the comic strip of Mickey you showed. The joke was never "Bugs Bunny is in a dress and trying to get the hunter to fall in love with him, laugh." It was always "The overconfident hunter is so bad at his job that the prey can easily fool them by dressing as a member of the hunter's opposite sex and the disguise is purposefully bad that it's easily seen through, but Bugs gets the upper hand either way." And it holds up super well, with Bugs becoming somewhat of a queer icon as a result.
tbh looney tunes has always been the anti Disney, id never call looney tunes liberal, but they certainly weren't afraid to challenge certain norms and ideas
Holy- I'm trans masc myself so I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I clicked on one of your older videos (new subscriber, very new to your content) your voice has come such a long way and it's so pretty. I'm very happy for you!
![SAFEPLANET - ดาวเคราะห์ [ THE PLANET ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4X1XL3I_k3c/mqdefault.jpg)
What’s your fav Disney movie? Are there any LGBTQ or gender variant moments in it?✨
Use DREAMSOUNDS to get 55% off your first month at Scentbird sbird.co/3vXXoYE
Also, a correction: I don't know how I left out Raine Whispers from The Owl House, Disney's first non-binary character. So sorry about that!
1. I don't know how many people thought about this but in Hunchback, Esmeralda disguises herself as an old man using Djali the grey beard poking out for maximum effect.
2. I'm surprised there wasn't a tiny clip from the B&B castle siege where (despite the castle coming to life, people being set on fire, many sharp knives) the wardrobe does in two of the villagers with a /makeover/, they look at each other then down at themselves and run away screaming in terror because "in dresses!!!!" (The twist they gave this in the live action was really the *only* thing I found entertaining; most likely because that actor was serving how fabulous that ensemble felt.)
Mulan for sure! that movie is all about identity and being true to your heart.
Well my favorite is Cinderella, someone who shows incredible kindness in face of people who hurt her and pull her down, she has qualities that show to be strong doesn’t mean to be brash or fight. The transformation of your hearts desire and experience a world where one can finally be a part of, A personification of her hope being fairy godmother. It’s my absolute favorite Disney animated film.
@@searchingfororion I love Hunchback. Ya she does dress as an old man
@@maem7462 I feel her song is 🏳️🌈 appropriate too.
(Hunchback is one of my favorites 💞)
Marlene, maybe as someone who speaks both english and german you could talk about translation of non-binary characters in other countries? As more nb characters appear on american shows it was interesting to see how translators worked with it in more gendered languages and how nb community in general interacts with such languages.
This is a great idea, I might do this in the future! Thank you for the suggestion. Unfortunately I don’t think the Disney catalogue has enough to go off of for a whole video, but I would love to talk about the difference in non-binary identities as they relate to translation once Disney has more representation. If you’re interested, on my second channel I made a video back when I identified as non-binary called “Being Non-Binary: A Complicated Song” that talks a lot about the differences between expressing enby identities in English and German th-cam.com/video/Te3SJDFpLz4/w-d-xo.html
@@DreamsoundsVideo Thank you!
fun fact: Kirby is actually genderless in the Japanese translations of the games. They used He/Him pronouns for Kirby in the American translations for cultural appropriation. so yes, Kirby is canonically nonbinary!...in Japan, at least.
🤍💛💜🖤
I was pretty disapointed when I switched to the German Dub of She-Ra and the Princesses of Power and they used Er/Ihm (masculine) for Double Trouble who used they/them in the original. They used Sie/Ihr for the person Edric was dating in The Owl House instead of they/them, too. I hope they won't mess up Raine when they air those episodes. German still has a lot to learn
@@apples4911 Wait, really? I’ve never heard of this before. I feel like the Kirby anime (which I eventually watched in Japanese) always referred to Kirby with he/him pronouns. Maybe that’s a fansub issue?
I love how people are against cartoons “pushing agendas” when literally all art has an agenda. It’s called meaning. Morals. Themes, if you will.
I find it even more so when the "what about the children?!" narrative is used to criticize animation when it was never meant for children.
Every era has had very obvious standouts on this matter. (Think Fritz The Cat or Heavy Metal)
Not to mention; ask anyone who is an anime fan and they'll give you a massive social, economic, and cultural explanation for the dominance of animated entertainment in Japan and probably a good amount of it's history as well.
Some things r acceptable, soeme things r not. Most of us dont care until you try to force your ideology, not only onto us, but our children. Leave our d*mn kids alone!!!!
@@DanceArchives24 About 99% of all media for children push an ideology. Almost all children shows have a "moral" at the end of the episode. The episode's lesson. If you will. Almost none of it has to do with anything LGBTQ+ related. But funny how nobody complains about those ideologies being pushed.
@@DanceArchives24 In what way has Disney tried to force a trans ideology? And how can a private entertainment company force anyone to watch anything?
@@DanceArchives24 when kids too often prefer to kill themselves rather than live in your oppression, I would say "our agenda" of inclusivity and acceptance is far more moral and OK.
I wanted to compliment your voice. Your singing and speaking voice sound so calming and enjoyable to listen to and I always look forward to watching your videos since they make me feel like I'm in a music class all about Disney, you research these subjects so well. With this video that the scene with the pirate getting a jar thrown at him these old cartoons made me realize how frequent it was to show effeminate male characters showed up, do something sassy, and immediately follow it by getting physically attacked for comedic purposes. That's unfortunately really common in old cartoons.
I remember a lot of, for lack of a better term, cross-dressing gags in media I consumed as a child. And looking back, I can see that it can be played in two ways.
One is the "forced into drag" trope when, for some reason, a male character has to put on a dress or even pretend to be female, and the joke is often that it's humiliating.
Sure, tropes are tools and sometimes this one is used to teach a misogynistic character that girls and women don't have it easy and they learn that by, well, walking a mile in their shoes, so to speak. Or to not bully boys or men who are a bit effeminate. But most of the time, sad to say, it's just for a gag and a short bit of humiliation. Because wearing a dress is tantamount to prat-falling, I guess.
Then there is the one where doning drag is done not only by free will, but empowers the character.
Once again, tropes are tools, and can be used for good or bad or simply handled better or poorly.
If we compare the videos example of Big Bad Wolf with another famous animated cross-dresser, Bugs Bunny, I say the trope isn't necessarily in Bugs case that the joke is "Oh, the male Bunny is wearing womens clothing, haha!" But "Oh, look at the clever Bunny fooling his/their tormentor". Bugs often puts on disguises, and if that disguise is male or female is less important to him as to what suits the occasion.
Bugs doesn't humiliate himself when putting on a skirt and wig, it empowers him.
Funnily enough, there is a Disney example where these two, the unwilling/humiliated one and the one who just goes all in for it are contrasted for comedy's sake.
In the episode "Adventures in Squirrel-sitting" from Rescue Rangers, Chip and Dale dress up in drag to sneak into Fat Cats Casino. When Dale comes out in a dress and wig he has fully embraced the role, doing a sexy pose and just enjoys it, while Chip who comes in after him are stomping, frowning and his whole body-language clearly signaling "I hate this stupid idea".
(Also, this trope is oooold! There is an old Norse Myth when Thor has to disguise himself as a bride (more specifically the goddess Freiya as a bride) to get his hammer back. Hyper-Masculine Thor despises this but Loki, ever the trickster, ever dancing on the border, is in most retellings delighted by this and either disguises himself or uses magic to physically transform into Thors Bridesmaid. Thors humiliation is emphasised by the fact that to Loki it's not bad at all, he is actually capable of enjoying it).
Just an observation I've made.
my favourite example of cross dressing in childrens media is James from Team rocket. He crossdressd (along side jessie) a lot in earlier seasons of pokemon. yes it was to trick the main characters so he could steal their pikachu but, he genuinly enjoyed it and nobody made fun of him for dressing in drag. Just the characters got suprised it was him all along and irritated that they stole pikachu again.
y favourite example from james though it from a later season where he ross dressed to help Jessie.
Jessie in her spare time loved to do something known as a contest battle, a very feminin side minigame in the videogames and was very feminin potrayed in the anime as typically the female travel partner of ash was involved and rarely if ever ash himself taking part. it was the 'girls turn' in the spotlite in episodes surrounding contests. But jessie got sick one day and couldnt compete and james, being a genuinly good friend cross dressed as her contest alter ego to attemt to win the prize for her. Not only did he enjoy partaking in the contest himself, he won, swimmingly. He was the first main male character to win a ribbon and in that season, the first of the main characters to win a contest, before Dawn, the female protagonist of the searies.
he still dresses in drago occasionally, but not as often but i wish he did. it was an aspect that helped me understand i was queer in some way as i wanted to 'be him'. i wanted to be a masc leaning person who could cosplay for fun occasionally. just an aspect of him that is never really treated as a queerphobic joke, just the antics surrounding him in drag could be seen as humerous, not the drag itself, and thats refreshing suprisingly
As a trans woman who is often mistaken as a crossdressinng man online I don't really feel particularly empowered by those old Bugs Bunny skits. Its true that Bugs usually wasn't the butt of the joke himself, but it was still inherently linking gender variance with deception and the butt of the joke is more often than not, just that the bad guys genuinely perceived Bugs as a woman, even in some cases developing a romantic attraction to him. The idea that the only people who could see me as the gender I identify as or be attracted to a woman who fails to live up to cishetero gender norms are as cartoonishly stupid as Yosemite Sam or Elmer Fudd is actually pretty damn disheartening.
that's why I loved the old comedy movie Some Like It Hot (1959 Marilyn Monroe movie ♥) growing up even though it was already super old when I was a kid. two men dressing in drag to hide from the mafia after witnessing a murder. one of them suffers the whole time because he has feelings for the sweet blonde in the women's music troop they're hiding amongst and feels he can't share them, and the other one winds up having such a grand time and so empowered he potentially marries a man who fell in love with his female persona at the end (but states he doesn't care once he finds out). it's played for sillies but there's no judgment placed on the characters for it and I always thought that was oddly wholesome for the time.
I love that movie and think it's a really interesting example of gender variance being part of a joke without feeling that negative. I don't really know why I feel that way, as the movie certainly checks off many transphobic stereotypes. But I think the wholesome nature of the performances and story make it feel more like a positive testament to gender variance, especially how the film seems to promote breaking down gender roles. A lot of very unique things especially for a movie from 1959
Another example of characters in drag/cross dressing in children’s media is Big Macintosh in the My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic episode Brotherhooves Social. In the episode, Apple Bloom is sad her only sister Applejack won’t be able to go to the Sisterhooves Social with Apple Bloom. Big Mac wants to be with his youngest sister again, so he dresses up as a mare to be in the Sisterhooves Social with Apple Bloom, and Big Mac pretends to be a cousin named Orchard Blossom. There’s a running gag that an elder stallion hits on Orchard/Big Mac, because heteronormativity in 2015. After it’s revealed Orchard is a stallion named Big Mac, it was soon revealed that the word “Sister” in Sisterhooves Social is not exclusive to female ponies. I do get the whole point of this episode is that Big Mac wants to reconnect with his much younger sister (the moral being something about family), but it just so happened to be “oh let’s put a stallion in a dress” so to speak. The episode soon happened to be somewhat offensive towards trans people.
another subtle detail i think is worth noting with the wolf, is the choice of using a fairy. like you said, being gay and being trans have always had ties with each other in societal perception, and "fairy" is a slur for gay men. this reinforces both the "haha, man in dress" stereotype and the devaluing of femininity in men and queerness
No Disney boycott has ever really worked. "Sorry! Can't hear you over all this money we have!"
Boycotts aren't the things that work, it's the bad P.R. that gets them. Disney was more upset about being uncovered donating to the politicians than looking complicit. And as such, said politicians are angrier that they've lost a Sugar Daddy than Disney taking a weak stance after said bad PR was hurting them. This wasn't just them weaponizing memberberries the way they did about Dr. Seuss's estate discontinuing books NO ONE was reading or turning into Illumination movies or Netflix limited series, or Pepe LePew not being in a movie no one over the age of 12 was going to want to see. This was them pouring pure scorn because Disney wasn't bribing them for theme park purposes.
Love the nuanced take on crossdressing. And it really is hard trying to figure out if some crossdressing scenes are jokes (that queer people are free to reclaim) or can be read as positive for the most part. Kinda shows how comedy and jokes can be more complicated than the usual "if I laugh that's comedy" view
I always was sort of confused about why being gay, and being trans, _and_ crossdressing was so often lumped together in media, this really helped not only understand our history as a community a little better, but understand how much worse the anti-trans agenda was back then.
Our society (not just America, Lord help the poor trans Souls in the UK and Russia) is still making baby steps towards being more accepting of trans people, but I'm glad that Disney of all corporations is making even the tiniest steps. :-)
I saw your tweet about this video and I clicked right away!
The right are the same people who complain about censorship of old TV shows/ kids books that pushed explicitly racist ideology. I'm writing a full episode ranking of a kids show from the 60s and whilst I'm trying not to judge the merit of the overall episode based on racist villains (yellowface etc.), I'm having to mention it for parents and caregivers because I know that kids shouldn't be exposed to these presentations before they can understand the historical context. I also want to make sure that parents don't stop their kids form watching the show entirely because of a few episodes.
Then again, the protagonists cross dress a lot as a plot device, so at least it's nice to see gender variance sometimes used positively in the show. There's even a character that is only cross dressed because one of the lead actors really wanted to play her and it's probably the highlight of the show!
Why is it respecting other human beings an agenda??? It's almost as if these people had an agenda themselves... 🤔
As always, incredible video Marlene!!!
Also, related to the "Pixar is looking for a trans VA" when I heard that, I had a theory that probably Miriam from Turning Red was going to be that trans character, (I'm trans MtF myself) although it wasn't, it fitted like.. really well for me (specially since Mei's mom is displeased with her being her friend) for me, now it's like a private head cannon, which honestly really gives me hopes of what they can do if they propose themselves to actually doing actual representation.
I though Miriam was trans too, haha
Apparently people love to justify their hate of another human being .
I'm honestly not sure where Pleakley falls into this, but he's the first character that pops into my mind when I think about Disney's history with gender variance, crossdressing. and either tasteful or mocking depictions. IIRC, I remember him being not too harshly judged for being an allegorically gay man that is also literally a double crossdresser on both gender and species boundaries, but at the same time, it's hard to tell when the joke is that he's extra and when it's that he's wearing women's clothing and acting somewhat effeminate...AS A MAN!?
it helps that on the whole Pleakly's crossdressing isn't really portrayed negatively, it's generally not bothering msot of the cast and he does it of his own free will.
Oh yeah, Pleakly. I remember thinking they were a cool character lol.
Now that I know I'm a gender nonconforming trans man and not a woman I feel a strange kinship with pleakley when watching the lilo and stitch franchise. Part of me knows that the joke is that he wears feminine clothing, and probably in part it's meant to be an extension of the joke that he isn't really as knowledgeable about the earth and human culture as he thinks he is. But I still struggle to feel offended by it, and if anything I just appreciate it. Plus there's the angle that it could have been a "deceiving people" thing as it is part of his disguise around humans, but then part of the joke is that he genuinely enjoys dressing up like that and even starts doing it when he doesn't need to. And again it's a joke, and I'm referring to it as such because it is so obviously one, but it still doesn't feel insulting? It's a strange position to be in for sure
Not only is DeSantis' point homophobic and transphobic, in implication, at the very least...it's like "oh no. Parents are expected to parent. Actually monitoring what their kids watch and talk to them about it and instill beliefs, themselves. The horror." 🙄
Which is really funny when his main defense against educating kids about sexuality and gender in schools is that "parents can teach those subjects to their children themselves". Yet apparently those same parents are so incompetent that they need a nanny state to dictate the sorts of stories told through mainstream media (stories that would also make those subjects easier to explain without school nonetheless)
Ok groomer
@Arnav Nandedkar
Ok wife beater
@@asleepyb0i400 ok groomer
@@arnavnandedkar3080??
there already is a Disney trans character though?? there's Raine Whispers, a trans-nonbinary character who goes by they/them, in Disney's "The Owl House" tv show. they're a side character though are also a pivotal character in the show and are engaged in a Will They/Won't They romance with a main character, Eda "The Owl Lady" Clawthorne. they're also voiced by a nonbinary actor, Avi Roque.
i will admit there has yet to be a trans-binary character or a trans main character or a trans character in one of their movies, as far as I'm aware. though for the trans main character part: Luz from "The Owl House" was originally supposed to be nonbinary, and she is a main character and often engages with gender nonconforming outfits, but I don't think they have made her explicitly nonbinary within the text of the show(? I could be wrong bc I have memory loss, but yeah) that may have been one of the changes Dana Terrace was forced to make in adapting the original concept she had into television. so though i do get your point from one of these more specific avenues, I do also want to point out that there has been movement towards trans characters of all kinds being more accepted within the Disney brand
Thank you so much for pointing this out, I don't know how I left out Raine Whispers. Adding a correction to the pinned comment now
But is Raine confirmed trans? I know technically all human nonbinary people are trans, but maybe it’s different for witches?
@@seyspectra Avi Roque (the person who plays Raine) said they identify as transmasc
Seeing DeSantis claim that you could watch cartoons without having to worry years ago is funny and someone I follow on Twitter pointed this out when he brought up how Bugs Bunny has kissed men and cross dressed for years and no rational individual has cared or gotten upset about that.
Kids wanted to wear what they wanted before the visibility of lgbtq+ cartoon characters. You can't stop who someone is. And why the f would you want to mold your own child into a straight cis nightmare if that's not who they are.... I'm glad growing up I was allowed to wear sneakers, play video games and dress boyishly. I never recall my mother forcing me to dress any way. I could also watch any cartoon and no cartoons affected who I was inside in regard to gender or orientation. Cartoons just taught me life lessons, made me laugh, and taught me about love and bravery.
For real. People act like this is something just *now* happening. There have been lgbt folk all throughout history, but very rarely were they ever public about it in fear that they will be mocked, beaten, incarcerated, or killed. At least now, people are realizing that it has never been ok for us to so much as have human rights and voices for other people, and are making an effort to give us a voice.
Then the fucks that want to keep us out of sight and out of mind are trying to control media and television like its their right to stay superior on top of us.
Yeah. And every LGBTQ teacher has 7 LGBTQ FLAGS, 80 stickers in his classroom, half the time is spent talking about whose pronunciation is from a teacher / student. And of course, don't tell your parents at home what we talked about.
Things are only "political" when people disagree with them... I swear media literacy is dead...
They also get political when people and companies attack others for not agreeing ''enough'' or simply wanting to be left alone.
I would love to hear your input and thoughts on the flying mouse silly symphony short. As someone who is trans and watched the short a lot as a child honestly it still sticks with me, and honestly depicts some of my biggest fears around transition. It's got such clear trans themes (although unfortunately in a more negative light) yet I never see anyone talking about it!
I also remember that short. That would be a good one for analysis.
I would like to see this because I have never even heard of it.
Also Archie, I don't know which direction you're going with your transition, but I know/follow some pretty awesome people who are extremely open, informative, detailed, honest (some parts are emotionally trying: extremely slow before any treatments - let alone change - occurs, or others physically uncomfortable) accounts of their journeys.
I do *not* know a single person who regretted living their life as the gender they knew themselves to be.
Trust me, I know (and have known) *a lot* of people all over the gender spectrum. More than being free from gender dysphoria is the experience of gender *euphoria* - find those moments for yourself.
(I have a background in Psychology with a subspecialty in Human Sexuality and Gender Studies, so aiding and supporting the LGBTQIA+ community is my main purpose.)
If you'd like links to videos on the topics I mentioned, I'd be glad to divvy them up for you.
Thanks for talking about this, my parents literally canceled our disney plus subscription over this. DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY MOVIES ARE ON DISNEY PLUS????
did you told them that it was unfair from their part?
Good that they cancelled your Disney plus accounts because of the crazy woke ideology.
DeSantis is an absolute clown. My parents worried like crazy over how cartoons would influence me. They wouldn’t let me watch Ren & Stimpy at all because of its weird and sadistic feel. And after finding out what a monster John K is, I’m happy they didn’t let me watch it. Cartoons back in the day were chock full of awful messages that encouraged transphobia and racism and ableism. Cartoons today are at least trying to move past that and I can hardly consider that indoctrination.
Wonderful video yet again Marlene! So many people are so eager to cast aside media, yet don’t they know that their ancestors have been protesting the same thing? They’re not the only ones that can look with Rose color glasses.
Florida Governor "When we were kids..."
Cartoons when he was a kid: 🔫 violence etc..
Because this is TH-cam, I was afraid this was a negative video. Thank you for subverting my expectations. Good work!
You're killing it with the voice training, Marlene!
Epic new voice
Lovely video once again! I've always loved whenever women would voice male characters in animation. I've been hyperfocusing on the Simpsons something fierce and like, realizing almost all the boys are voiced by women is one of my favourite parts about it. As I'm exploring my gender identity, I've found myself quite chuffed to discover I can do impressions of both naive little Ralph and bumbling oaf Chief Wiggum. ...in my head, at least. I'm too shy to listen back to 'em due to anxiety regarding my own voice and accent. It's probably not on-point at all, but I'm having fun!
Can't help but wonder if those people who say "cartoons are pushing agendas" are aware of the fact that the earliest forms of animation were rarely aimed at children to begin with and often included adult subjects... I think about European animation a lot (even if half of them were animated in Japan, haha.) They've always been a lot more loose and relaxed with subjects, but I don't recall any gender exploration in the ones I've seen? If there are any I'd love to know more about them!
Regarding your second paragraph, I made this exact same point/observation in reply to another comment (😃 ooh ~ matching wavelengths ~ 😎)
Regarding your first portion/paragraph - perhaps a way for you to feel a bit more comfortable verbalizing the voices would be using some of their most meme-d phrases "jokingly" in conversation (that way you wouldn't be outing yourself - you're just "doing impressions" even if they're a little rough at first you could sort of paint it like this is a new interest and so you're getting practice to hone your technique).
Eg for Ralph:
(Tee hee) I'm in danger.
Choo-choo-choose
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@@searchingfororion Haha, rad! And I can say I've quoted some choice Ralphisms to "impress" people before... always worried my dfab's too obvious for the guys, but it sort of works for kid characters? A friend of mine who's a cis guy and aspiring VA just rattled off like.... half of the cast once, and it made me self-conscious and impressed at the same time.
Reminds me, I would find it interesting to learn more about trans voice actors! I still miss Maddie Blaustein dearly.
@@finchvink I'm not an expert on that unfortunately. The only real cross gender voice acting trivia I have is that the woman who did the voice of Chucky from Rugrats (I don't know if it's the same person in any of these other versions) VOed for *tons* of shows with a rather diverse character line-up.
Did you watch Dreamsounds video about the trans voice actress for the Spanish language version of The Little Mermaid?
I'm curious what accent you have that makes you feel unsure about your vocals.
@@finchvink I apologise - I wrote a better comment/reply but YT apparently stripped it upon posting. (My theory is that I used the "Q" word, which they were supposed to have stopped policing on this channel ages ago.)
I'll have to wait until I'm feeling a bit better to try to re-write it.
Thank you for posting this. I know it's not enough nor fast enough, but I'm still grateful that the young people in my life are starting to see themselves represented in media.
excellent! I was clapping by the end which is not something I normally do.
Man gonzo is just gonzo and always has been. He's just cooler now as gonzoella
Gonzo has always been my favorite as a kid cause gonzo is just gonzo and gonzoellla? So cool! Ugh I could go on and on why gonzo is so great .
As an 80's pre-school kid I found crossdressing in cartoons just fascinating, not funny. But looking back it is true, that Disney went towards laughing AT the crossdresser while WB went the road of laughing with or even cheering for the crossdresser - since in Bugs' case, he was the hero. At Disney, the queer coded ones were mostly the villians maybe except for Robin Hood. I really loved the 3 pigs cartoon back then and crushed bad on Robin Hood AND Maid Marian, but I just found Robin as vixen fortune teller sassy and the wolf as "fairy" lovely. I had no idea ... Also fairy is not a slur used for gay men in my country.
this isn't really an example of gender variance but on the topic of seeing ourselves and empathizing with stories that weren't intended for us. i've recently become... a bit obsessed with viewing Pinocchio of all things with a queer lense. over-analyzing and reading the disney adaption as a trans story etc etc. his dream to become a real boy and learning what it means to be a real boy is one i think that's really profound to me, especially as a trans man myself. it's a cool thing to think about i suppose, and your videos like this really emphasize the power that can have. thanks for another great video!
I genuinely can't get over how adorable your voice is - you should read audio books!
Another great one! As usual, you navigated the nuance expertly and gave me some good language to think about. Thank you
"when we were little we could watch cartoons and not worry about the ideology their were spreading"
the ideologies they were spreading in cartoons (and TV shows and movies) for the entirety of the 21st century: LITERAL r4acism, eurocentrism, white supremacy, colorism, anticommunism, re-writing of historical events, colonialism, sexism, misogyny, violence, pro-war propaganda, xenophobia, orientalism, ageism, ableism, capitalist-realism, environmental-fatalism. NOTHING TO WORRY JUST ALL THE LITERAL WAYS TO DESTROY HUMANKIND AND THE EARTH.
This was SUCH a well done video! The history of queerness in media is such an interesting topic, but it can be overwhelming to know where to start when it comes to research. Your video are always super educational and interesting! Thank you so much!
Dang you are doing such an amazing job on voice training and super fast like how? It is really amazing.
I adore this channel
It confirms your biased points of view in life, of course you do. It’s like cnn, buzzfeed, salon and every woke point out together in one channel.
I detest this channel but I do find these videos entertaining, I’m sure this dude can explain to me how practical pigs overalls are queerphobic
I don`t think that wolf crossdressing is necessarily about gender. A character trying to appear to be somebody else to eat kids is a common trope in folklore. In my country there is a fairytale where a wolf changes his voice so that goatlings would think he`s their mother, while the same thing happens in a fairytale when a witch (or a female snake) wants to steal a boy. Although maybe I don`t entirely understand the context of the US at the time and Disney added this subtext too.
I think the wolf as he appears in the Disney short is definitely influenced by US-American attitudes of the time. Disney found a lot of inspiration in fairytales for their cartoons, but ultimately the comedy and the ways in which gender was presented aren’t that different than standard comedy of the time (I.e. the wolf cross-dressing as the grandmother is part of the story, but the other scene I focus on seems specifically US-American, I mean, the song he does about being a fairy hints at tropes common in queerphobic attitudes of the time.) But I think you have a good point, because when these elements are sometimes in the original stories for different reasons, it’s a bit unfair to view it only within the lens of US culture. Also, do you mind me asking what is the name of the story you’re referring to about the wolf changing his voice?
@@DreamsoundsVideo oops, the The Wolf and the Seven Young Goats" (Der Wolf und die sieben jungen Geißlein) is actually german, not ours like the snake one. I had a beutiful book as a kid with the mother-goat in national clothes, so I did not remember it as german, my bad.
Pleakley's representation started as a "haha dressing like a woman" joke but over time developed into something that was really reassuring and encouraging for me as a kid.
I thought it was funny, but I also thought it was just something he does. Aliens don’t usually care about gender barriers I assume
So I know it's to make a point, but I'm getting so tired of having to hear the awful things being said by various US politicians trying to rile up their base in videos. I know they are awful, and I have to hear them everywhere, be it their channels trying to push it at me, the news reporting that they said it, or videos deconstructing what they said but still playing it back. In a way it actually is spreading their own hateful messages further, even if for the purpose of pushing back against them. It just makes it harder watching videos like this because I know I'll have to listen to them say awful things again just to get to hear the dissenting opinion.
Still going to watch the rest of the video and support, but getting hit with DeSantis in the first 7 seconds was just like "ugh no please I'm so tired of hearing this."
¡congrats on your transition!
Your voice is so soothing
Eh... I grew up with a cross dressing rabbit, and nobody ever batted an eye back then. I never even questioned it as a kid. I dunno what the problem is these days.
Men who grew up in the 90's: cartoons were free from gay and trans people back in the day, making them safe and far better. When men were MANLY.
He-man: *points at She-Ra, O-em, Orko, Man-at-arms, Double-Trouble and all the others * ...ummm? What are we then?
I think a lot of male characters are voice by females in Japan. I think older cartoons had plenty to worry about. Sure it's done in an overly silly way but honestly things like Looney Toons and Tom and Jerry were kind of violent. It's mostly done in an overly silly way, so I guess adults don't see it as an issue? Not to mention all the offensive things.
Why can't we just be like the Brits with doctor who?????
We get an openly trans actor/actress during tennant's role. Have an openly gay man play jack Harkness with his character himself being omnisexual. And we're getting another openly Trans actress on the casting list and no one is throwing a fit over it
Brits love a moral panic but it's usually only explicitly right wing media with zero illusion of respectability that complains about representation in TV shows. Things like trans women authors winning prizes is a more likely talking point for British journalists invested in fuelling the trans moral panic. It makes them seem like they're intellectuals with "reasonable concerns".
You have indeed always been here and always will be. I know horrible hateful idiots yell the loudest but know that you (meaning both you, Marlene the person and you, the whole trans community) have love and support from allies both from within and outside the lgbtqa+ community covering your backs.
I'm both happy and proud that you feel like you finally can show the person you really are to the internet and people outside of your friend group. I don't know if this is me just thinking I hear or feel something that isn't there but to me you sound more relaxed in your newest videos, almost as if you now can breathe more freely. Thank you for making videos that are sad, funny, beautiful and important and please do take care of yourself.
Great point about gender bending in the voice acting industry!
"If Gonzo is trans, that's a disorder" shows what they think of kids with "disorders" too...
Mulan in my head canon is coded ftm and so is Luz from owlhouse
YOUR VOICE SOUNDS SO NICE 😫 I am very envious because I have not found the motivation to voice train.
You can do it!! Here, have a mushroom of motivation. 🍄
When I was a kid I thought the wolf looked cute in drag... Never told any one that till now.
Now it’s animation
Before it was ballet & opera
2 jobs & art form that began as male only employed, the ones picked to be the “females” in ballet had to dress the part & be delicate. While in opera, the chosen “females” were preteen boys that look feminine or castrated men, surgically fixed to keep their voice high pitched as possible.
love your uploads
Honestly, as someone in the LGBT+ community, I love that huge companies such as Disney are trying to give us good representation, however I feel like they're just doing it bc it's trendy. My best example of this is The Owl House, a newer Disney show, it has so much diversity and started in 2020 but is getting canceled bc "it doesn't fit the Disney agenda". Even though some may say it's not because of homophobia or any prejudice, I can't help but to think it is. Star vs The Forces of Evil had a similar plot, magic girl goes to planet earth, in The Owl House it's kinda the opposite, human girl goes to magic world. Star vs The Forces of Evil lasts four seasons but Owl House will only last for three; Star never had the "it doesn't fit the Disney agenda" but Owl House did. That's all I have to say, Disney is taking steps but it feels like a trend rather than genuine (bc they're a huge company who have to please the masses)
My daughter has been very inspired to be herself from your videos thank you
I love how you did this ending song!
"In a world where queer representation is still not a given, agency over what we consume, and creating our own spaces with that can be a super power." SO FUCKIN POWERFUULLL AND REEAALL
the song in the outro was so beautiful😭😭😭
The governor of Florida is a clown and needs to worry about his state than cartoons and what other people are doing
I'd like to see a video on queer characters in video games, the character Spar in Breath of Fire II is in my opinion non-binary, would like to see anyone else's thoughts on this.
I'm surprised you didn't talk about Pinocchio but still great video
"I dont know if gonzos a crossdresser, or a transgender" Neither! Hes a 'Whatever' !
I love how she calls The US "The US" because she knows America is a whole continent ❤️
good question,
my queen, your voice is so beautiful omg
Clarence Nash (Donald Duck) also voiced Daisy Duck in her first cartoon (Mr Duck Steps Out (1940)), he also voiced her predecessor/prototype Donna in Don Donald (1937).
It should be noted that the original medieval folk tale of little red riding hood already had the wolf crossdressing.
@Aethelwyne Blackwood well would be a bit strange if it was a black or asian woodsman, i mean the story is from, idk, 12th century rural northern europe. Good/bad depiction wasn't my point anyway, just wanted to point out disney didn't come up with the wolf crossdressing.
left: *criticizes Disney for half a century*
right: "look at those radicals who HATE FUN, hahaha i bet they hate kids"
Disney: *sells rainbow flavored cake ONCE*
right: "INDOCTRINATION REEEEEEEEEEEEE"
The fact that gonzo has cross dressed makes me so happy
Why? 😂😂
@@PeterPumpkinEater75 that’s just so real of him
@@lina8812 MF is a children’s puppet character that was a originally written to the be the shows comic relief daredevil, Jim Henson would laugh so hard at this shite. Gonzo was cool as hell when I was a kid, I remember him on the original muppet show, now the kids need to see him in a dress for whatever reason? Not sure why but eh, I look forward to Fozzy bears coming out or miss piggy’s female to male transition
@@PeterPumpkinEater75 as someone who grew up on the muppet show and he’s dressed up in pink leotards and tutus since the 80s. It just shows that kids don’t really care how or what a character does it’s the adults that care.
@@lina8812 yeah for comedic effect though, it was part of the laugh. This crap is meant to be deep
I love your voice! It’s so soothing to listen to 💕
The edited big bad wolf in the thumbnail funnily reminds me of how he was portrayed in Shrek.
The gender confused big bad wolf lmao, I guess Shrek parodied it years before Disney actually did it.
Girl I love your videos keep doing what you’re doing
4:14 Loving your glasses
Oh so that’s why your voice is different. OK you be the best version of you that you can be.
Up until very recently, Disney has treated cross-dressing as a joke, so idk what these conservatives are on about.
maybe i just mis understood and i apologize for this but about the voice actors portraying a character other than their gender point. (bit extensive sorry but im interested in behind the scenes stuff like this in medis ^^'')
Its extremely common if not expected for Female voice actors to potray younger male characters (typically boys/teenagers who's voice who hasn't dropped yet) because its easier for women to imitate a younger male voice than it is for a male VA to do the same (their voices are normally deeper). There are cases where male VAs can do a good enough job at portraying a young boy's voice and cases where male vas can do a female voice too Sonia from sonic underground shares the same voice actor as her siblings Sonic and Manic who are both male).
one example of a voice actor accidently getting the genders of a character wrong so tried to make the voice fit the gender is Derpy(aka Bubbles) from my little pony friednship is magic.A background character turned fan favourite after an animation error depicted her as cross-eyed. the VA in her first debuted wasn't clearly told what gender the character was and so she guessed the character was male, so gave her a deeper voice-or as deep as the VA could go. this was funny considering the whole reason why the character got popular was due to an error, and the character is now associated with a different error.
In cases like that its mainly because; its cheaper than hiring another voice actor if you only have one main female character and the show is on an extremely low budged (sonic underground was compared to other sonic cartoons at the time)so you use what talent you already have, if the voice actor fits then it ends up cheaper so the budget can go elsewhere, some VAs are extremly talented and their voice pool is varied- just like how some actors are fit for a type cast roll whilst others are flexible and can play whatever whenever.
again maybe i miss inteporated what you said in the video and i'm sorry if thats the case, just thought i'd add a bit about what i know about VAs here.
Love your voice-over ❤️
When i was a kid a was traumatized by all of the scary shit in cartoons from the 90s and 2000s 0:57
I just don't like it when comedy thinks that crossdressing is a joke in and of itself. You have to have something funny or interesting happening in the story, not just "haha man in dress funny". And many hack writers don't want to put the effort in.
I loooove your voice and am so jealous of it
3:47 I wouldn't really say its cross dressing just wearing thing that are stereotypically
Red riding Hood‘s been around 100 years bugs bunny’s been around 40 years so the stories been like that for so long I don’t know the issue is so one of the boy character dress up as a girl It’s part of the cartoon to get away from Eating the thing for gays at all
when i was a kid, i watched rocky and bullwinkle, fractured fairy tales, george of the jungle, etc.....trust me....those toons are subversive
never mind all the kroft shows with their drug humor and visuals
I thought that cross gender voice acting was just fullfilling the tonal needs of the show...
I mean, I think Walt Disney voiced Minnie because there wasn't anyone else to and her lines were brief. For the other examples, I agree - and I think that goes to show how fluid these categories of gendered voices are and that they've already been like that for a long time
I never saw the crossdressing in old cartoons as trans or anything with an angenda. I just thought if ur trying to avoid a male character, ur not gonna expect the person is disguised as a woman. If the villian is a dude, ur not gonna run from a girl ya know?
Disney has always always always been a very conservative company. In recent times, when directors want to create queer characters it is Disney itself that stops them.
the case of the creator of gravity falls is well known, who wanted to include a gay couple in his series but disney never let him (the two cops where intented to be in a relationship) , or the case of the gay kiss in star vs the forces of evil where disney said ok but have to be very unnoticed in very extra characters. there are many examples like this, even very recent ones like in Encanto (where disney didn't like that Luisa's design was so "masculine" and the designers had to push hard to get it accepted).
So when I found out that there were a lot of people angry that Disney was pro-gay, I was very confused. Are they talking about the same disney that I know?
How disgustingly conservative and stupid do you have to be to get mad that a company that has been shown countless times to be very conservative and not very gay friendly does something slightly , SLIGHTLY decent towards minorities? from what i saw on social media, almost everyone acted as if disney had done or said something very strong pro lgbt+
what a bunch of grown babies crying in non-queer related disney posts saying "go woke go broke" like what? What are you talking about? what wokeness???
I honestly can't with all this. every day i understand more when god once said "you know what? fuck this" and proceeded to flood and kill all humans.
You have such a lovely and beautiful voice
u have a beautiful voice
I really like your voice, it's cute😊
It's not a trans phobic thing, but I honestly find men dressed as women funny looking. It's the clash of styles; big scraggly beard while wearing a frilly dress. It's silly! IDK why that's offensive to find something funny when it's 100% someone's choice to wear. What's not funny is to find something funny that someone can't help.
I love your voice has the best of both worlds🔥🔥
can you make a video about trans agenda in cartoon network shows?
Unfortunately not, sorry, this channel is only about Disney
@@DreamsoundsVideo ok
your voice is so nice! :)
Ron DeSantis is the sitting governor of a US state. Im not saying i expect republican governors to be great people or super progressive but is it to much to ask that they're at least more interested in doing their actual jobs instead of producing the same culture war vomit i could get from a youtuber with a cartoon animal avatar and 15,000 subscribers?
You mean I can't wear my kilt anymore.
So, I come from this in a background as a trans person, but also as someone who loves a lot of old cartoons, and I cannot believe I'm about to say this, but of all character groups that got it right.... strangely, it was the Looney Tunes. And for a similar reason as to the comic strip of Mickey you showed. The joke was never "Bugs Bunny is in a dress and trying to get the hunter to fall in love with him, laugh." It was always "The overconfident hunter is so bad at his job that the prey can easily fool them by dressing as a member of the hunter's opposite sex and the disguise is purposefully bad that it's easily seen through, but Bugs gets the upper hand either way." And it holds up super well, with Bugs becoming somewhat of a queer icon as a result.
tbh looney tunes has always been the anti Disney, id never call looney tunes liberal, but they certainly weren't afraid to challenge certain norms and ideas
I really hope you do some voice training tutorials because I love your new voice
Holy- I'm trans masc myself so I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I clicked on one of your older videos (new subscriber, very new to your content) your voice has come such a long way and it's so pretty. I'm very happy for you!
It's done for money, and controversy.
I am against anyone who talks like she does