Through the grace of Allah SWT I found this religion being blessed with a drive to pursue knowledge & learn of Allah & the workings of human beings in this world. I so much admire the explanations we get. How knowledgeable & sincere our international ummah is, it’s simply amazing.
If you believe something that is your way of coping - but I can't accept lies and deceit. Honesty and truth are important for me. Have you ever checked if these "explanations" are true? Have you tested them?
@@StopSpammingOriginal This comment seems to be more of a cope. Yes we have evaluated the coherence of these explanations. The fact is when truth is so important to you i want to see how consistent are you with your claim. Please bring your proof if you are truthful, instead of making claims in thin air.
@@khalidkhatri100 _"Yes we have evaluated the coherence of these explanations"_ Can you demonstrate that? Thanks. _"how consistent are you with your claim"_ Sorry, I don't understand. What claim are you talking about? I seem to be asking questions rather than making claims.
@@StopSpammingOriginalYes my friend you are making claims like you mentioned “If you believe something that is your way of coping”. This is an assertion. Anyway I have already given you some homework and perhaps if you want proof let me analyse how your epistemology works. On the assumption that you are an atheist/agnostic you say - “Honesty and truth are important for me.” Good. Now under your worldview i want to understand how do you ground this. If truth is valuable to you. Why is it so ? Do you believe in an objective value system that gives Truth more value than falsehood ? If yes then where do you ground that value system. Please explain I’m waiting. And perhaps is you don’t have an objective value system for truth then I’m going to have a lot of fun with you.
Masha Allah. Watching this channel has been a turning point in my life & many others I know. Congratulations on such an outstanding achievement. This is a generous giveaway. Keep up the good work May Allah rewards in this world and hereafter.
Chapters 0:00 Intro 0:59 Guest’s Background 3:58 Timeless Nature of The Quran 5:36 Epistemic Goals 6:15 Layers of Meaning 6:53 Cognitive States 8:31 Remarkable Structure 9:48 Example 11:40 Alaqah 19:30 Bringing in Science 23:50 Issues with Scientific Miracle 1 26:54 Timeless Nature Conclusion 28:11 The Problem of Divine Perfection 30:35 Issues with Scientific Miracles 2 32:34 Scientific errors in the Quran ? 33:02 Between the backbone and the ribs 37:00 Issues with Scientific Errors 39:24 Issues with Scientific Miracles 3 40:10 Concluding Remarks 44:18 Support Incisive Thoughts 44:57 Outro
The scientific miracles in the Qur’ān narrative is incoherent. I appreciate that this video may agitate some readers, especially those who have adopted the scientific miracles in the Qur’ān narrative. The intention is not to stir emotions, but rather to facilitate a new coherent discourse in Muslim apologetics and proselytisation. I pray it brings about the much needed discussion and dialogue, as it is through speaking to one another, exchanging ideas and scrutinizing the approaches we take that we can find solutions and answers to contemporary problems.
I am your sister from Yemen, and by Allah I only spoke out of hunger and distress. My mother, my brothers, and I lessons and tears. We are in a situation that only Allah knows about. Allah is sufficient for us, and He is the best disposer of affairs for those who brought us to this situation. By Allah Almighty, I did not write this appeal out of distress and distress. Poverty, O world, they have felt it So, I hope for you. By Allah Almighty, Lord of the Great Throne, he ate what I had in the house. By Allah, my brothers, he is my brothers by sitting in the house. Who has no food? By Allah, we are in a very difficult situation. We have 6 people entering the house, and my father has died, and there is no one who can depend on us and who lives in it.We live in a rented house because we cannot pay the rent we owe. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''' My brother, my first words are: I swear to Allah that I will not lie to you or deceive you. I am a Yemeni girl displaced from the war. My family and I live in a rented house in Al-Shahrab 20,000 Yemenis among us, and now we owe 60,000 for 3 months. The owner of the house is one of the people who does not have mercy, by Allah, my brother. He comes every day, insulting us, talking about us, and moving from the house to the street because we were unable to pay him the rent. The neighbors saw us crying and came back.They came back to talk to the neighbors and we were given the weekend. So we made him swear by Allah. He will take us out into the street. Have mercy on him and us. Our country is due to this war and we do not find food for our day, and my brothers and I live in a difficult life. Our father died, may God have mercy on him, and we have no one in this world who was with us in these harsh circumstances. My younger brothers went out into the street and saw...The neighbors eat and stand at heir door in order to give them bread even if they break it. By Allah, to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, they closed the door and expelled them and came back crying. They are dying of hunger. No one has mercy on them and a holiday is returned. I have made a living, and now if one of us helps us with a kilo of flour, I swear to God, I am dying of hunger. My brother, I am an alien to God. Then, I ask you to help me for the sake of God. I ask you, by God, to love goodness and to help me, even if you can, by messaging me on WhatsApp.On this number 00967716649494 and ask for the name of my card and send it and do not be late and may God reward you with all the best, my brothers Sagar, see how they are and help us and save us before they throw us out in the street, you will be lost or we will die of hunger. My family and I ask you, by God, if you are able to help us, do not be late and may God reward you well..`/-~«««~-♡~♡~♡~~•~•~♡~♡~♡~♡~♡~♡♡♡~~~:?~:~¡~¡~¡~;I.i.i.i.i.i,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,;%&;;&&;%🎉😢😢😢
Could you please do a talk on Islam and design approach. We the Muslim in creative fields are more inclined towards the western approaches and blindly copying their ethos. That’s the tragedy. There was a time when Muslims were at the top of creative thinking. Please a series of programs is required in the light of Quran and Sunnah. So that we can create our own visual culture.
This is the best thing and the most coherent thing i have came across, thank you for this this was a gem subhanallah how focused we get on proving the quran scientifically that we forget it was not intended for it in the first place it was intende dto invoke the readers thoughts and humbke him and relate to the divine attributes subhanallah!
@@StopSpammingOriginal Yes it does however whats your issue with the truth ? Are you emotionally inclined to reject it ? What is you real goal here ? Show me how sincere your intentions are
@@khalidkhatri100 _"Yes it does"_ Great! Then it should be easy to bring some evidence. Go ahead, I'll wait. _"whats your issue with the truth"_ It is of utmost importance to me. That's why I ask questions. Is a statement made in the video really true? That is my question. My goal is to try and get people to think. Instead of blindly accept claims, check them. It seems you are lost. What exactly is your problem? Can you answer my questions, yes or no?
@@StopSpammingOriginal Yes my problem is with you spamming the comments and asking for proof and evidence without explanation what sort of epistemology you accept. Plus have you actually gone through the statements made in the video ? What proof are you looking for! As you seem to be more lost than anyone. The video is on Quranic exegesis and focuses on the right method for Quranic exegesis. For me to prove that the video is on point in its assertions to you, You need to have basic knowledge of quranic exegesis, do you possess that? or you just go around videos and spam “prove me” “prove me” in the comments without having any clue what’s going on. And perhaps what makes you think you are entitled to be spoon feed with “proof” of something personally when its actually demonstrated in the video ? What makes you so special ? Can’t you put a little effort and watch the entire video when you claim to be so concerned about truth. If you truly are then show us by investing your time. Watch the entire video and come back. Ill ask you are few questions and check if you have actually watched the entire video or not. And then if you actually have watched and still have questions related to that topic, ill be here to answer your questions. Now do your homework and come back.
@@Shahidtalkstv Is that what I mean? Did I mention evolution? No, I did not. Did Hamza mention evolution as it is understood today? No. Oh and by the way, it is the "Theory of Evolution". Just like the "Theory of Gravity".
@@StopSpammingOriginal that's what I am trying to convey. You are just saying alot without saying anything at all , paradoxical right? Yes Second thing is if you are not a weasel of a weasel come out from your cave and tell us what you believe and let us see what you have to offer.
@@Shahidtalkstv Are you for real? The sqiggly thing at the end of my sentennces are known as question marks. They are questions. Are you able to answer or not?
The Qur’ān is a timeless, multi-layered and multi-levelled book. The Qur’ān’s verses pertaining to natural phenomena can have a multiplicity of readings. These verses have many layers of meaning that can be understood by people with different levels of understanding. Each layer of meaning can be made sense of by people of varying ages, at different stages of intellectual advancement. The layers of meaning are not just restricted to scientific truths, rather they can refer to spiritual, existential, and moral truths.
@@amuthi1It basically means interpret whatever you want irrespective of the context and meaning of verses. The Koran calls for violence to advance belief in Allah. Muslims twist the calls for violence towards non-Muslims by stating that the violence is not to advance the cause of Allah but to defend Muslims. Even when a verse talks about hunting and killing non-Muslims like Quran 9:5 Muslims interpret that as self defence
@@amuthi1 Nope. multi layer doesn’t mean that you can interpret whatever you want. The interpretation is fixed within the scope of classical Arabic. No new meanings can be imposed on the text.
@@jaihindcollegegraduationmu6060 So what do we do with words in the quran that are surely not arabic but old-aramaic or ethiopian in origin? And what do we do with the rather obscure verses in the quran generations of scholars come to different opinions about?
The sincerity and humility of this conversation is much appreciated. I have learned some invaluable truths regarding the nature of the Quran. The so called scientific miracles of the Quran was one of the biggest selling points for me in my interest in Islam as it would seem to prove that the Creator Himself wrote the book. This would give us a divine perspective that would set the religion apart from every other religion in the world that follows divine guidance under human perspectives. This would also make the religion in my opinion the only logically coherent religion as it would not be based in nebulous reasoning but a straight forward path for one’s feet. This video has proven all that to be otherwise which is unfortunate for my religious search but fortunate for my search for truth. I’m very thankful for this honest and clear perspective. The layers of meaning in the Quran play out like all other scriptures. Rather than scientific truths it reveals metaphysical, spiritual, and moral one’s. Upon this deduction one should then be true to the logic and keep exploring and never shutout any other religion. As a Christian I have vowed to never stop seeking the truth while still holding to my faith for I have found it to be the most superior in metaphysical, spiritual, and moral truth.
This video only supports the point that Islam is the only logically coherent religion. You've said this video proved otherwise, however it's made me realize something. If a revelation is truly from the creator for all times of people from its revelation - until the end of humans, it would be expected that humans from all those times periods can understand it - scientifically and metaphysically/spiritually. The 'miracle' in this regard is the timelessness of the Quran, that's what makes it beyond human works. I think an example makes this clear - say you were to write a book explaining natural phenomena, and in 1400 years from now people read it and realize its completely compatible with all time periods since you wrote it. This is the miracle, as you would require knowledge of the future (scientific knowledge/innovations etc) - something only the creator would possess. As humans we write books explaining natural phenomena today - which are later debunked in 1 year, let alone more than a millennia. This is unlike any book. It's not that the Quran doesn't give any scientific truths, it indeed does. It's just that scientific truths are not the main goal or point of the Quran. A big point driven in this video is not to lock into a single meaning of a word/interpretation when examining them in a scientific light, as science doesn't lead to objective truths. I'm curious to know what you think in light of this as you say you're a truth seeker. Peace.
@@TheGuiltyGuys hi, thanks for your response. I would have to disagree though. To me the fact the Quran clearly holds to a geocentric model of our solar system stands out like a sore thumb to me. There is an amazing article on it on Wikipedia that shows it clearly using all the Quran verses that talk about it. TH-cam won’t let me post it here but you can just google geocentric model in the Quran and it’ll bring it up. The Quran always mentions the sun and moon moving around an orbit but when it mentions the earth it never mentions it moving. That’s a big oops for someone that is supposed to be the Creator. It is clear to me that the book was written by man. He may have been inspired but that is about it. It’s like how they say the pyramids couldn’t have been built by humans so they must have been built by aliens.
@@Livenow11484 The article you cite is from Wiki Islam, not from Wikipedia. I tried looking for anything relevant on Wikipedia but couldn't find anything. Wiki Islam is a notoriously well known anti-islam website specifically created to spread misinformation about it. Not a great source for Islam. Your claim that the Quran holds geocentric model doesn't hold up to a simple logic test. Your argument is essentially an argument from silence: Since it doesn't explicitly mention the earths orbit, therefore it doesn't believe it in and must hold geocentrism. This is a logical fallacy. Also, you can easily read up on the verses pertaining cosmology in the Quran and they perfectly fit into a heliocentric model. That is the whole point of this video, the miracle of the Quran IS the timeless nature of it. It's meaning is understandable to humans in all time periods since its revelation, as would be a requirement for a revelation of the creator to its creation. By your own standards you should reject the Bible also, as you would have to say the Bible holds the geocentric model by your own logic. Anyways, keep searching and stay consistent and true to yourself, and I pray God guides me, and you.
Btw, I think the scientific miracle narrative is not completely wrong but should be portrayed in different ways. For example, it is weird that Allah calls clouds heavy while they look light in the 7th century eyes. It should not be forced to be a miracle. But still, you can show the beauty of the word usage. Alaq is a perfect use of wording. Mountains etc.
@@khalidkhatri100 "We adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and guarded it. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing." (41:12) There can only be a lowest heaven if the earth is flat. Not imposing anything.
@@komrij1944 Maybe you need to think more on your assumptions about “There can only be a lowest heaven if the earth is flat.” Because seriously if this what you have to present then you’d be just wasting my and your time. Maybe learn a bit of quranic exegesis before stepping into a subject and making bold claims.
this comment may not be relevant to the podcast. I used to puzzled with the expression of the subhanAllah and mashaAllah, bcz of it's opposite expression nature in some context. Anyway, Great discussion.
The Quran is the greatest miracle given to the prophet Muhammad (pbuh)-why are Muslim apologists trying to take that away. Also, as long as we keep referring to old time scholars for explanation of the Quran scientific miracles, we will come to the wrong conclusion. The Quran explains the Quran; and if someone is incapable of observing that the deficiency is on them not the Quran.
It's always been obvious to me that it's possible to interpret the quran, or any book whatsoever, in multiple ways. it's not clear why Hamza thinks he has achieved anything. It's equally obvious to me that the quran contains scientific errors.
Rather its not clear what you have achieved from this comment as its been obvious to me you are contradicting yourself when you affirm a multi layer system and yet affirm scientific errors.
@@khalidkhatri100 I cannot possibly have contradicted myself because there is always some possible way to interpret my comment in a way that doesn't contradict itself. In fact, adopting Hamza's method, I have never said anything in my life that was incorrect. Alternative interpretations are always available. There are no errors in the bible either. Nor any other religious text.
@@DetInspectorMonkfish However your comment never gave a greater epistemic goal nor did it indicate a multi layered approach or ambiguity to reach the epistemic goal. Nor does the Bible or other scriptures have this. So it seems like you are just a troll trying to act smart but eventually waisting your and my time.
@@khalidkhatri100 My comment reduced Hamza's argument to absurdity. That is a particularly great epistemic goal. Every text ever written can be interpreted in multiple ways. Hamza's argument is a total nothing-burger. The fact that this kind of tosh passes for academic rigour in Islamic Studies is why I can't take the subject seriously.
@@DetInspectorMonkfish Rather your comment demonstrated reduced deciphering abilities. More importantly this isn’t “hamza’s argument” it’s orthodox islam built on classical scholarship. It seems that you didn’t even understood his case. Can you explain to me what is hamza’s point here in a bit nuanced manner ? Lets check your deciphering abilities.
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Allah is giving us hints to study important things in nature but unfortunately the Muslims were given a big dose of Tasawuff by the Fing Asharites leading to abandonment of Studying Science and Technology trigering the downfall of the ummah.
This is the same guy who visited Pakistan and had a debate with the most renowned Physicist and Professor Hoodbhoy and got insulted for lying in front of him before students during the QA session in LUMS. The other guy is Noman Ali Khan, a master's in Philosophy, who was caught in a scandal with girls, whom he used to send his nude/semi-nude pics, who now had a mammoth institution in Texas. I am not trying to bring here eristic perspectives. I am just revealing what is in the public domain. It has become monetary gains, fame, and power. Islam has been hijacked by such modern liberal Maulvis disguised as pious avatars. I might be amiss; I am open to other notions. Thank you for reading. May Allah guide us all. Ameen.
Its quite ironic to see how you are disingenuously framing things here. “renowned Physicist.. Hoodbhoy and got insulted for lying in front of him” are you for real ? Have you watched that debate yourself ? Your ‘superhero renowned physicist’ was making logically fallacies after fallacies to the point where it seemed like he didn’t know basic philosophy. He had already lost the debate as his arguments were dismantled and couldn’t answer questions posed by hamza, later in the question answer time he accused hamza of being a liar and simply walked out of the debate midway. He started yelling “shame on you shame on you” and walked away. Image a “renowned Physicist” doing such a thing in the UK. What hamza was implying in the q&a was that he seems to hate the Muslims. He even clarified that he used the word hate muslims because he shows signs of hatred. But our renowned Physicist didn’t seem to answer that and left saying shame on you shame on you. Hamza even apologised but that too didn’t help. I recommend everyone to watch the entire debate. Buddy you bringing this up and then framing it in this way seems such a desperate attempt. Why didn’t you care to explain the reason behind hamza coming all the way from uk to debate him ? Why don’t you care to explain Hodboy’s attacks onIslam ? Why do you have to malign people here ? I hope you know how severe it is in Islam to malign people. And then the cherry on the cake is when you call him a “liberal”. How ironic is it that one of the leading preachers against liberalism from the Muslim world is being accused of being a liberal.
@@khalidkhatri100 I have not even a wee of intention to defame, malign, or libel anyone, as mentioned in the comment that this was already in the public domain. We are not asinine. FYI, I have only seen his that particular debate but others too. I found him a charmer, and his other accomplices Hijab and Ali who, in the name of preaching, endeavour to defame Islam. I don't want to go into details. Everyone is entitled to a point of view, so am I. When they try to teach us what Islam is, then we have the right to say if they are trying to make us fool. I hope you understand my concern. I have not attached them personally but what they do and say to audiences. May Allah GUIDE us. Ameen.
Both Hamza and Nouman have so much positive contribution to the Dawah and helped facilitate hundreds if not thousands of Shahada's. Yet here you are exposing some mistake/sin they may have made in the past. How do you know whether they've repented or not, or if Allah has forgiven them? What was the purpose of your comment?
@@RealVerses The sole purpose is to guide others and show the reality of pseudo-Islamic Scholars. NAK did this while on tour preaching Islam, the other guy was caught many times for appeasement and using Islam for personal and monetary gains. I am not one of those who follow someone blindly. GOD made us use our critical thinking power. The skill to judge someone based on what they do and say. Only Allah judges humans for paradise or hell. NAK never talked about what he did, nor did the other guys in the same category. They slyly apply that Allah's messenger asked to convey one single verse to others whether you are literate or illiterate. What they forget is that when time changes, according to the norms and requirements of the time, one should preach. They had no qualifications to talk about the sensitive issues in Islam. They did huge blunders. Now they are getting some sort of Islamic qualification when the damage has been done. I am not a pious man; I might be more sinful than they are; however, I can never dare to use Islam for fame, money, and power. If you still don't get my point, then it's your decision. What sort of contribution are you talking about! If the agenda is evil, all falls into vacuous deeds-that's clearly mentioned in the Quran. I have no personal grudge against those diets; I am talking about their public deeds and preaching that they have done for vicious purposes. I might be amiss; prove me wrong. While what I talked about is all available on the internet. Thank you for reading. No offence. Have a good day/night.
@khalidkhatri100 is right you are disingenuously framing things If you watch the debate between Prof Pervez Hoodbhoy and Hamza Tzortzis, around 1 hr 48 minute mark, Hamza says: "coming way from Britain to have these intellectual discussions, Britian is a little bit more nuanced" "now maybe because you're a product of Muslim world, that you hate so much..." and Prof. Hoodbhoy understands this as if Hamza is saying that the Prof. hates the Muslims. And calls Hamza a liar and gets up while being really emotional, and walks out. How is this an academic way to engage in an intellectual discussion? After the Prof. Leaves, Hamza does say "he (the prof.) is a well established academic he does deserve respect..." and that he will write the Prof. an email apologizing for how the things turned out. Hamza's frustrations are reasonable though as the Prof. does not engage with any of Hamza's premises, instead misrepresents Hamza's arguments. If you watch the debate closely you will notice that the Prof. Hoodbhoy does show signs of hatred against Muslims, by misrepresenting Hamzas arguments and mocking religious Muslims in subtle ways.
Irrespective of the understanding of the reader or listener, their reflection on the Quranic Verses will facilitate the conclusion of the majesty of God’s creative power and the fact that the manifestation of His creative attributes is worthy of praise, thus the primary purpose of the verses is fulfilled. The multiplicity of readings approach opens the door to the conclusion that the Qur’ān’s verses have layers of meaning that make sense to people with a primitive and a more advanced understanding, whilst ensuring the objectives of the verses are met. This timeless nature of the Qur’ān is one of its remarkable features.
this made me realize that one of THE 'miracles' of the Quran is the fact that it is scientifically timeless. great video
Sorry, no, that is false. Just do your own thinking and don't simply believe what others tell you.
JazaakumuLLAHU Khayran
Aameen ❤
Waantum fa-jazākumu-llāhu khayran
SUBHANALLAH BROTHER
❤
Divine Reality:Hamza Tzortsiz = Quality book
Indeed
Through the grace of Allah SWT I found this religion being blessed with a drive to pursue knowledge & learn of Allah & the workings of human beings in this world. I so much admire the explanations we get. How knowledgeable & sincere our international ummah is, it’s simply amazing.
⭐️
If you believe something that is your way of coping - but I can't accept lies and deceit. Honesty and truth are important for me. Have you ever checked if these "explanations" are true? Have you tested them?
@@StopSpammingOriginal This comment seems to be more of a cope. Yes we have evaluated the coherence of these explanations. The fact is when truth is so important to you i want to see how consistent are you with your claim. Please bring your proof if you are truthful, instead of making claims in thin air.
@@khalidkhatri100 _"Yes we have evaluated the coherence of these explanations"_
Can you demonstrate that? Thanks.
_"how consistent are you with your claim"_
Sorry, I don't understand. What claim are you talking about? I seem to be asking questions rather than making claims.
@@StopSpammingOriginalYes my friend you are making claims like you mentioned “If you believe something that is your way of coping”. This is an assertion. Anyway I have already given you some homework and perhaps if you want proof let me analyse how your epistemology works.
On the assumption that you are an atheist/agnostic you say - “Honesty and truth are important for me.” Good. Now under your worldview i want to understand how do you ground this. If truth is valuable to you. Why is it so ? Do you believe in an objective value system that gives Truth more value than falsehood ? If yes then where do you ground that value system. Please explain I’m waiting.
And perhaps is you don’t have an objective value system for truth then I’m going to have a lot of fun with you.
Superb discussion. May Allah bless brother Hamza and brother Khalid.
Aameen ❤
Great job on the editing
Allahhamdulillah! That was the most tedious thing to do in the entire process
Your dedication to your faith and community is truly admirable, keep shining your your light💕
Fascinating conversation. JazakAllahu khairan
May Allah bless you both ✨
Aameen
Lovely information, much useful 😍
Glad it was helpful!
Great talk
Keep it up bro 👍
❤
May Allah Bless My Brothers🤍🤍🤍✨
Aameen ❤
Masha Allah. Watching this channel has been a turning point in my life & many others I know. Congratulations on such an outstanding achievement. This is a generous giveaway.
Keep up the good work
May Allah rewards in this world and hereafter.
Great discussion! MashaAllah, may Allah grant you more success
Aameen ❤
Chapters
0:00 Intro
0:59 Guest’s Background
3:58 Timeless Nature of The Quran
5:36 Epistemic Goals
6:15 Layers of Meaning
6:53 Cognitive States
8:31 Remarkable Structure
9:48 Example
11:40 Alaqah
19:30 Bringing in Science
23:50 Issues with Scientific Miracle 1
26:54 Timeless Nature Conclusion
28:11 The Problem of Divine Perfection
30:35 Issues with Scientific Miracles 2
32:34 Scientific errors in the Quran ?
33:02 Between the backbone and the ribs
37:00 Issues with Scientific Errors
39:24 Issues with Scientific Miracles 3
40:10 Concluding Remarks
44:18 Support Incisive Thoughts
44:57 Outro
MaShaAllah very informative session by Br Hamza Tzortzis and Incisive Thoughts team
Masha Allah Kareem, very knowledgeable
Very Knowledgeable
remember
science is changeable
VERY INFORMATIVE
THANK YOU
Masha Allah two wonderful brothers I pray Allah protect both of you and brings you peace and happiness my dear brothers
Aameen ❤
Your channel needs lots more views TabarakAllah.
InshaAllah! Working on it
quite nuanced and well thought
wow! very insightful concepts
The Multi Layered Approach makes a lot of sense
Love you both. Learned alot from this interview
Very informative video ❤
I really enjoyed your show! Please bring brother Daniel Haqiqatjou to your show. Jazak Allah akhi
InshaAllah
Brilliant session, subscribed and will support you bro, keep up the good work
The scientific miracles in the Qur’ān narrative is incoherent. I appreciate that this video may agitate some readers, especially those who have adopted the scientific miracles in the Qur’ān narrative. The intention is not to stir emotions, but rather to facilitate a new coherent discourse in Muslim apologetics and proselytisation. I pray it brings about the much needed discussion and dialogue, as it is through speaking to one another, exchanging ideas and scrutinizing the approaches we take that we can find solutions and answers to contemporary problems.
an assertion with no evidence can be rejected with no evidence
@@louisdeniau8571 Can i ask what you mean pls?
@@louisdeniau8571bros still stuck in the Hitchens' sophist bullsh*ttery 🫵🏻😂
@@louisdeniau8571 Ahh interesting! So what is the evidence for the veracity of the above assertion 🤔
@@louisdeniau8571true, that's why we reject the scientific miracles assertion
Awesome may allah grant you jannah. With everything in it.... You know 😉
Houris?
Masha Allah😍
🤍
Fascinating.. Thank you all. I love those findings and connections to nearly everything..Fond of Science..❤
I am your sister from Yemen, and by Allah I only spoke out of hunger and distress. My mother, my brothers, and I lessons and tears. We are in a situation that only Allah knows about. Allah is sufficient for us, and He is the best disposer of affairs for those who brought us to this situation. By Allah Almighty, I did not write this appeal out of distress and distress. Poverty, O world, they have felt it So, I hope for you. By Allah Almighty, Lord of the Great Throne, he ate what I had in the house. By Allah, my brothers, he is my brothers by sitting in the house. Who has no food? By Allah, we are in a very difficult situation. We have 6 people entering the house, and my father has died, and there is no one who can depend on us and who lives in it.We live in a rented house because we cannot pay the rent we owe. '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' ''''''''''''' My brother, my first words are: I swear to Allah that I will not lie to you or deceive you. I am a Yemeni girl displaced from the war. My family and I live in a rented house in Al-Shahrab 20,000 Yemenis among us, and now we owe 60,000 for 3 months. The owner of the house is one of the people who does not have mercy, by Allah, my brother. He comes every day, insulting us, talking about us, and moving from the house to the street because we were unable to pay him the rent. The neighbors saw us crying and came back.They came back to talk to the neighbors and we were given the weekend. So we made him swear by Allah. He will take us out into the street. Have mercy on him and us. Our country is due to this war and we do not find food for our day, and my brothers and I live in a difficult life. Our father died, may God have mercy on him, and we have no one in this world who was with us in these harsh circumstances. My younger brothers went out into the street and saw...The neighbors eat and stand at heir door in order to give them bread even if they break it. By Allah, to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth, they closed the door and expelled them and came back crying. They are dying of hunger. No one has mercy on them and a holiday is returned. I have made a living, and now if one of us helps us with a kilo of flour, I swear to God, I am dying of hunger. My brother, I am an alien to God. Then, I ask you to help me for the sake of God. I ask you, by God, to love goodness and to help me, even if you can, by messaging me on WhatsApp.On this number 00967716649494 and ask for the name of my card and send it and do not be late and may God reward you with all the best, my brothers Sagar, see how they are and help us and save us before they throw us out in the street, you will be lost or we will die of hunger. My family and I ask you, by God, if you are able to help us, do not be late and may God reward you well..`/-~«««~-♡~♡~♡~~•~•~♡~♡~♡~♡~♡~♡♡♡~~~:?~:~¡~¡~¡~;I.i.i.i.i.i,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,ﾟ,⌐,;%&;;&&;%🎉😢😢😢
Cool! A robot Muslim 😂
Could you please do a talk on Islam and design approach. We the Muslim in creative fields are more inclined towards the western approaches and blindly copying their ethos. That’s the tragedy. There was a time when Muslims were at the top of creative thinking. Please a series of programs is required in the light of Quran and Sunnah. So that we can create our own visual culture.
This is the best thing and the most coherent thing i have came across, thank you for this this was a gem subhanallah how focused we get on proving the quran scientifically that we forget it was not intended for it in the first place it was intende dto invoke the readers thoughts and humbke him and relate to the divine attributes subhanallah!
❤
The question you should ask yourself: is it true? Does it correspond with reality?
@@StopSpammingOriginal Yes it does however whats your issue with the truth ? Are you emotionally inclined to reject it ?
What is you real goal here ? Show me how sincere your intentions are
@@khalidkhatri100 _"Yes it does"_
Great! Then it should be easy to bring some evidence. Go ahead, I'll wait.
_"whats your issue with the truth"_
It is of utmost importance to me.
That's why I ask questions. Is a statement made in the video really true? That is my question.
My goal is to try and get people to think. Instead of blindly accept claims, check them. It seems you are lost. What exactly is your problem? Can you answer my questions, yes or no?
@@StopSpammingOriginal Yes my problem is with you spamming the comments and asking for proof and evidence without explanation what sort of epistemology you accept. Plus have you actually gone through the statements made in the video ? What proof are you looking for! As you seem to be more lost than anyone. The video is on Quranic exegesis and focuses on the right method for Quranic exegesis. For me to prove that the video is on point in its assertions to you, You need to have basic knowledge of quranic exegesis, do you possess that? or you just go around videos and spam “prove me” “prove me” in the comments without having any clue what’s going on. And perhaps what makes you think you are entitled to be spoon feed with “proof” of something personally when its actually demonstrated in the video ? What makes you so special ? Can’t you put a little effort and watch the entire video when you claim to be so concerned about truth. If you truly are then show us by investing your time. Watch the entire video and come back. Ill ask you are few questions and check if you have actually watched the entire video or not. And then if you actually have watched and still have questions related to that topic, ill be here to answer your questions. Now do your homework and come back.
Mashallah ❤
Want to see more of you with Shaykh Hatim AbdisSalam ❤
InshaAllah! Jazakallah for the suggestion
Quality content
The gems of videos get less views like that is a shame. But it's expected as people choose entertainment over valuable education
What education? It is a person making unfounded und unsubstantiated claims. Why don't you test the claims?
@@StopSpammingOriginal like evolution theory you mean?
@@Shahidtalkstv Is that what I mean? Did I mention evolution? No, I did not.
Did Hamza mention evolution as it is understood today? No.
Oh and by the way, it is the "Theory of Evolution". Just like the "Theory of Gravity".
@@StopSpammingOriginal that's what I am trying to convey. You are just saying alot without saying anything at all , paradoxical right? Yes
Second thing is if you are not a weasel of a weasel come out from your cave and tell us what you believe and let us see what you have to offer.
@@Shahidtalkstv Are you for real? The sqiggly thing at the end of my sentennces are known as question marks. They are questions. Are you able to answer or not?
The Qur’ān is a timeless, multi-layered and multi-levelled book. The Qur’ān’s verses pertaining to natural phenomena can have a multiplicity of readings. These verses have many layers of meaning that can be understood by people with different levels of understanding. Each layer of meaning can be made sense of by people of varying ages, at different stages of intellectual advancement. The layers of meaning are not just restricted to scientific truths, rather they can refer to spiritual, existential, and moral truths.
The Koran doesn't have multiple layers. It is your brain that has multiple layers. You are hallucinating
Multi-layered then could also mean open to any interpretation which makes it worthless.
@@amuthi1It basically means interpret whatever you want irrespective of the context and meaning of verses. The Koran calls for violence to advance belief in Allah. Muslims twist the calls for violence towards non-Muslims by stating that the violence is not to advance the cause of Allah but to defend Muslims. Even when a verse talks about hunting and killing non-Muslims like Quran 9:5 Muslims interpret that as self defence
@@amuthi1 Nope. multi layer doesn’t mean that you can interpret whatever you want. The interpretation is fixed within the scope of classical Arabic. No new meanings can be imposed on the text.
@@jaihindcollegegraduationmu6060 So what do we do with words in the quran that are surely not arabic but old-aramaic or ethiopian in origin? And what do we do with the rather obscure verses in the quran generations of scholars come to different opinions about?
The sincerity and humility of this conversation is much appreciated. I have learned some invaluable truths regarding the nature of the Quran. The so called scientific miracles of the Quran was one of the biggest selling points for me in my interest in Islam as it would seem to prove that the Creator Himself wrote the book. This would give us a divine perspective that would set the religion apart from every other religion in the world that follows divine guidance under human perspectives. This would also make the religion in my opinion the only logically coherent religion as it would not be based in nebulous reasoning but a straight forward path for one’s feet. This video has proven all that to be otherwise which is unfortunate for my religious search but fortunate for my search for truth. I’m very thankful for this honest and clear perspective.
The layers of meaning in the Quran play out like all other scriptures. Rather than scientific truths it reveals metaphysical, spiritual, and moral one’s. Upon this deduction one should then be true to the logic and keep exploring and never shutout any other religion. As a Christian I have vowed to never stop seeking the truth while still holding to my faith for I have found it to be the most superior in metaphysical, spiritual, and moral truth.
This video only supports the point that Islam is the only logically coherent religion. You've said this video proved otherwise, however it's made me realize something. If a revelation is truly from the creator for all times of people from its revelation - until the end of humans, it would be expected that humans from all those times periods can understand it - scientifically and metaphysically/spiritually. The 'miracle' in this regard is the timelessness of the Quran, that's what makes it beyond human works.
I think an example makes this clear - say you were to write a book explaining natural phenomena, and in 1400 years from now people read it and realize its completely compatible with all time periods since you wrote it. This is the miracle, as you would require knowledge of the future (scientific knowledge/innovations etc) - something only the creator would possess. As humans we write books explaining natural phenomena today - which are later debunked in 1 year, let alone more than a millennia. This is unlike any book.
It's not that the Quran doesn't give any scientific truths, it indeed does. It's just that scientific truths are not the main goal or point of the Quran. A big point driven in this video is not to lock into a single meaning of a word/interpretation when examining them in a scientific light, as science doesn't lead to objective truths.
I'm curious to know what you think in light of this as you say you're a truth seeker.
Peace.
@@TheGuiltyGuys hi, thanks for your response. I would have to disagree though. To me the fact the Quran clearly holds to a geocentric model of our solar system stands out like a sore thumb to me. There is an amazing article on it on Wikipedia that shows it clearly using all the Quran verses that talk about it. TH-cam won’t let me post it here but you can just google geocentric model in the Quran and it’ll bring it up. The Quran always mentions the sun and moon moving around an orbit but when it mentions the earth it never mentions it moving. That’s a big oops for someone that is supposed to be the Creator. It is clear to me that the book was written by man. He may have been inspired but that is about it. It’s like how they say the pyramids couldn’t have been built by humans so they must have been built by aliens.
@@Livenow11484 The article you cite is from Wiki Islam, not from Wikipedia. I tried looking for anything relevant on Wikipedia but couldn't find anything. Wiki Islam is a notoriously well known anti-islam website specifically created to spread misinformation about it. Not a great source for Islam.
Your claim that the Quran holds geocentric model doesn't hold up to a simple logic test. Your argument is essentially an argument from silence: Since it doesn't explicitly mention the earths orbit, therefore it doesn't believe it in and must hold geocentrism. This is a logical fallacy. Also, you can easily read up on the verses pertaining cosmology in the Quran and they perfectly fit into a heliocentric model.
That is the whole point of this video, the miracle of the Quran IS the timeless nature of it. It's meaning is understandable to humans in all time periods since its revelation, as would be a requirement for a revelation of the creator to its creation.
By your own standards you should reject the Bible also, as you would have to say the Bible holds the geocentric model by your own logic.
Anyways, keep searching and stay consistent and true to yourself, and I pray God guides me, and you.
Quran is a story of a messenger’s ministry!
Watching 22:56
Btw, I think the scientific miracle narrative is not completely wrong but should be portrayed in different ways. For example, it is weird that Allah calls clouds heavy while they look light in the 7th century eyes.
It should not be forced to be a miracle. But still, you can show the beauty of the word usage. Alaq is a perfect use of wording. Mountains etc.
According to Islam, the universe consists of the earth with heavens above it. That can only be if the earth is flat and at the bottom.
Absolute nonsense
You are doing exactly what hamza is talking about. Trying to impose something on the Quran. An eisegesis instead of an exegesis
@@khalidkhatri100 "We adorned the lowest heaven with lamps and guarded it. That is the decree of the Almighty, the All-Knowing." (41:12)
There can only be a lowest heaven if the earth is flat.
Not imposing anything.
@@komrij1944 Maybe you need to think more on your assumptions about “There can only be a lowest heaven if the earth is flat.” Because seriously if this what you have to present then you’d be just wasting my and your time. Maybe learn a bit of quranic exegesis before stepping into a subject and making bold claims.
@@khalidkhatri100 Read Surah 36:38 to understand that the sun goes into a stable at night.
@@amuthi1 Outdated Cliche 🥱 You need to read it and understand more than me
min 23:00
this comment may not be relevant to the podcast.
I used to puzzled with the expression of the subhanAllah and mashaAllah, bcz of it's opposite expression nature in some context. Anyway, Great discussion.
The Quran is the greatest miracle given to the prophet Muhammad (pbuh)-why are Muslim apologists trying to take that away. Also, as long as we keep referring to old time scholars for explanation of the Quran scientific miracles, we will come to the wrong conclusion. The Quran explains the Quran; and if someone is incapable of observing that the deficiency is on them not the Quran.
A Golf Club.. or more specifically a driver!
Yes my to more more relagio side also match
🔁
It's always been obvious to me that it's possible to interpret the quran, or any book whatsoever, in multiple ways. it's not clear why Hamza thinks he has achieved anything. It's equally obvious to me that the quran contains scientific errors.
Rather its not clear what you have achieved from this comment as its been obvious to me you are contradicting yourself when you affirm a multi layer system and yet affirm scientific errors.
@@khalidkhatri100 I cannot possibly have contradicted myself because there is always some possible way to interpret my comment in a way that doesn't contradict itself.
In fact, adopting Hamza's method, I have never said anything in my life that was incorrect. Alternative interpretations are always available.
There are no errors in the bible either. Nor any other religious text.
@@DetInspectorMonkfish However your comment never gave a greater epistemic goal nor did it indicate a multi layered approach or ambiguity to reach the epistemic goal. Nor does the Bible or other scriptures have this. So it seems like you are just a troll trying to act smart but eventually waisting your and my time.
@@khalidkhatri100 My comment reduced Hamza's argument to absurdity. That is a particularly great epistemic goal.
Every text ever written can be interpreted in multiple ways. Hamza's argument is a total nothing-burger. The fact that this kind of tosh passes for academic rigour in Islamic Studies is why I can't take the subject seriously.
@@DetInspectorMonkfish Rather your comment demonstrated reduced deciphering abilities. More importantly this isn’t “hamza’s argument” it’s orthodox islam built on classical scholarship.
It seems that you didn’t even understood his case. Can you explain to me what is hamza’s point here in a bit nuanced manner ? Lets check your deciphering abilities.
Saying Qur'an and science is like saying islam is peace 😂😂😂 utter rubbish
My life to match< London Hounslow mid x + man mid x, man +woman >man, faki+ faki( bird 🕊️), luk+ Luk_- look Lv, ntOo winner 🏆🌎, world 2aria name my story, since & earth more more match my life,now
Guys: promise me 1 thing....dont listen to non-expert A-holes.
You mean like these two muslims on science?
Allah is giving us hints to study important things in nature but unfortunately the Muslims were given a big dose of Tasawuff by the Fing Asharites leading to abandonment of Studying Science and Technology trigering the downfall of the ummah.
Mutashabihat doesn’t mean ambiguous; it means analogous!
You misunderstood one word and whole talk becomes worthless!
Read commentary of the earliest scholars on the subject.
No I'm god...
But I'm dirty1 in earth
Hamza had done this for so many years - learned nothing.
Answer the questions i have asked you in the other comments before jumping on to make new claims.
You could watch something else.
@@RealVerses Hamza and I have a very, very long history, so I was curious. And you are absolutely right, I could. I didn't.
@@StopSpammingOriginal Someone is living rent free in your head😂
@@RealVerses Yeah, watching a (1) video with Hamza in 5 years would indicate that.
😂😂😂😂
WARNING ⚠️...Asharite SUFI on the loose spewing foolishness.
This is the same guy who visited Pakistan and had a debate with the most renowned Physicist and Professor Hoodbhoy and got insulted for lying in front of him before students during the QA session in LUMS.
The other guy is Noman Ali Khan, a master's in Philosophy, who was caught in a scandal with girls, whom he used to send his nude/semi-nude pics, who now had a mammoth institution in Texas.
I am not trying to bring here eristic perspectives. I am just revealing what is in the public domain.
It has become monetary gains, fame, and power. Islam has been hijacked by such modern liberal Maulvis disguised as pious avatars.
I might be amiss; I am open to other notions.
Thank you for reading.
May Allah guide us all. Ameen.
Its quite ironic to see how you are disingenuously framing things here. “renowned Physicist.. Hoodbhoy and got insulted for lying in front of him” are you for real ? Have you watched that debate yourself ? Your ‘superhero renowned physicist’ was making logically fallacies after fallacies to the point where it seemed like he didn’t know basic philosophy. He had already lost the debate as his arguments were dismantled and couldn’t answer questions posed by hamza, later in the question answer time he accused hamza of being a liar and simply walked out of the debate midway. He started yelling “shame on you shame on you” and walked away. Image a “renowned Physicist” doing such a thing in the UK. What hamza was implying in the q&a was that he seems to hate the Muslims. He even clarified that he used the word hate muslims because he shows signs of hatred. But our renowned Physicist didn’t seem to answer that and left saying shame on you shame on you. Hamza even apologised but that too didn’t help.
I recommend everyone to watch the entire debate.
Buddy you bringing this up and then framing it in this way seems such a desperate attempt. Why didn’t you care to explain the reason behind hamza coming all the way from uk to debate him ? Why don’t you care to explain Hodboy’s attacks onIslam ? Why do you have to malign people here ? I hope you know how severe it is in Islam to malign people. And then the cherry on the cake is when you call him a “liberal”. How ironic is it that one of the leading preachers against liberalism from the Muslim world is being accused of being a liberal.
@@khalidkhatri100 I have not even a wee of intention to defame, malign, or libel anyone, as mentioned in the comment that this was already in the public domain.
We are not asinine.
FYI, I have only seen his that particular debate but others too. I found him a charmer, and his other accomplices Hijab and Ali who, in the name of preaching, endeavour to defame Islam. I don't want to go into details.
Everyone is entitled to a point of view, so am I. When they try to teach us what Islam is, then we have the right to say if they are trying to make us fool. I hope you understand my concern.
I have not attached them personally but what they do and say to audiences.
May Allah GUIDE us. Ameen.
Both Hamza and Nouman have so much positive contribution to the Dawah and helped facilitate hundreds if not thousands of Shahada's. Yet here you are exposing some mistake/sin they may have made in the past. How do you know whether they've repented or not, or if Allah has forgiven them? What was the purpose of your comment?
@@RealVerses The sole purpose is to guide others and show the reality of pseudo-Islamic Scholars. NAK did this while on tour preaching Islam, the other guy was caught many times for appeasement and using Islam for personal and monetary gains.
I am not one of those who follow someone blindly. GOD made us use our critical thinking power. The skill to judge someone based on what they do and say. Only Allah judges humans for paradise or hell.
NAK never talked about what he did, nor did the other guys in the same category. They slyly apply that Allah's messenger asked to convey one single verse to others whether you are literate or illiterate. What they forget is that when time changes, according to the norms and requirements of the time, one should preach. They had no qualifications to talk about the sensitive issues in Islam. They did huge blunders. Now they are getting some sort of Islamic qualification when the damage has been done.
I am not a pious man; I might be more sinful than they are; however, I can never dare to use Islam for fame, money, and power. If you still don't get my point, then it's your decision.
What sort of contribution are you talking about! If the agenda is evil, all falls into vacuous deeds-that's clearly mentioned in the Quran.
I have no personal grudge against those diets; I am talking about their public deeds and preaching that they have done for vicious purposes. I might be amiss; prove me wrong. While what I talked about is all available on the internet.
Thank you for reading. No offence.
Have a good day/night.
@khalidkhatri100 is right you are disingenuously framing things
If you watch the debate between Prof Pervez Hoodbhoy and Hamza Tzortzis, around 1 hr 48 minute mark, Hamza says:
"coming way from Britain to have these intellectual discussions, Britian is a little bit more nuanced"
"now maybe because you're a product of Muslim world, that you hate so much..."
and Prof. Hoodbhoy understands this as if Hamza is saying that the Prof. hates the Muslims. And calls Hamza a liar and gets up while being really emotional, and walks out.
How is this an academic way to engage in an intellectual discussion?
After the Prof. Leaves,
Hamza does say "he (the prof.) is a well established academic he does deserve respect..." and that he will write the Prof. an email apologizing for how the things turned out.
Hamza's frustrations are reasonable though as the Prof. does not engage with any of Hamza's premises, instead misrepresents Hamza's arguments.
If you watch the debate closely you will notice that the Prof. Hoodbhoy does show signs of hatred against Muslims, by misrepresenting Hamzas arguments and mocking religious Muslims in subtle ways.
Irrespective of the understanding of the reader or listener, their reflection on the Quranic Verses will facilitate the conclusion of the majesty of God’s creative power and the fact that the manifestation of His creative attributes is worthy of praise, thus the primary purpose of the verses is fulfilled. The multiplicity of readings approach opens the door to the conclusion that the Qur’ān’s verses have layers of meaning that make sense to people with a primitive and a more advanced understanding, whilst ensuring the objectives of the verses are met. This timeless nature of the Qur’ān is one of its remarkable features.