French Purple: The lichen is extracted by urine or ammonia, then the extract is acidified, the dissolved dye precipitates out and is washed. Then it is dissolved in ammonia again, the solution is heated in air until it becomes purple, then it is precipitated out with calcium chloride. The resulting insoluble purple solid is known as French purple, a fast lichen dye that was much more stable than other lichen dyes.
Hi William. I am attempting to make a lichen purple ink! I am concerned about how it will react to light, this sounds like a solution! Have you made it yourself?
I have looked everywhere for a "soup to nuts" method of using lichen as a die and you have done it! I also live on the east coast and I thought that the lichen that I had collected was the common Green Shield (Flavoparmelia caperata) but your instructions on using a drop of bleach verified what I had initially thought was Punctelia rudecta. Yay! Purples!!! I love your step by step directions from harvesting, removal from bark, and the beginning to the end of the dying process. Thank you so much for an incredibly informative video! A++ !
Gorgeous! My MIL was cleaning graves on Memorial Day this year and i asked her to save any lichen she found. I was expecting some of the xanthoria lichens because she described it as bright yellow-green, but instead she brought back nearly a quart of this! Looking forward to trying it out.
What a thorough and informative video, thank you so much! Just a heads up, that if you pre-wet your fiber before dyeing, it will aid in the dyeing process by making it easier for the dye to evenly penetrate the fiber :)
Thank you so much, purple is my favorite color, my mother used plants, including lichen to dye wool and silk, on the west coast we have a large variety of moss and lichen! I'm going to experiment! My mom is gone so no help from her I'm on my own!
Thank you for this video! I‘ve never seen such a interesting color dyeing idea from lichen. Also it’s interesting that you use to gather lichen chopsticks and a tofu package and cook it with a rice cooker😊
This was actually used as a substitute for Tyrian purple, or a way to "stretch" the authentic dye! There are a number of historical samples that were originally believed to be dyed with Tyrian purple that they're now finding out were actually orcein!
How does the high ph of the ammonia affect the integrity of the protien fiber. Protien fibers do better with low ph. Did you use a mordant to lock the color into the fiber? If so what kind? Did you let the wool cool to the same temperature as the rinse water so it wouldn't felt? Is the color persistent or fugitive in the sun over time? does it wash well? Finally it's best not to wring out wool skeins, instead roll the skien in a dry towel. You made a very nteresting video.
By the time you're ready to actually dye, a lot of the ammonia is gone. Yes, 10 is a higher pH than wool would like long-term, but it's not actually much worse than many soaps or detergents, so it should be fine for short term. Lichens tend to be high in tannins, so lichen dyes don't require a mordant. However, orcein is kind of prone to fading due to light. In one of the other comments, someone else has posted a recipe for french purple, which is a method of extracting/treating the dye which is supposedly more light-safe, but I haven't tried it yet. It's in my plans, though!
Good job we don't have 'smelly-vision' 😆 I did 2 massive ammonia vats of 2 different lychens as a tree came down in the wind...skip forward 8 months and I just made a brown smelly yuk-fest 😔 I'm going to stick with food colouring from now on but well done to you for being successful 😃
Last summer, I made this according to your directions and it worked great! Trying it again and after three weeks I have what looks like grape juice colored solution. My question is: How do I know when it's ready?
Awesome! I think the longer you let it go, the deeper the color for a given amount of liquid. I'm also not sure at which point the lichen is exhausted.
Thanks! I learned mostly from here: www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.fungimag.com/summer-2014-articles/LR2%2520V7I2%252066-69%2520Dies.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwigwezImuL1AhXkSt8KHbEwB84QFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2OpIvmiPKaF18Cs9vCyh4a, and looking into which lichens had the right compounds!
Yes, you could use citric acid or vinegar to lower the pH and get a red to pink color. The color changes if you wash the fiber in a different pH solution.
@@julianliber4633 Is that the same chemically as a plant like a hydrangea bush can grow blue flowers in low PH soil the same plant if put with high PH soil will grow pink flowers?
@@TrudySchwartzBurrill it's similar, in that pH affects color, but the compound is different. Many pigments (natural and synthetic) are pH sensitive, and can be used as indicators. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH_indicator
It's really hard for me to find a good lichen in a place like Vietnam, most of the lichens here are usually very thin and easily decompose into humus, most of the lichens I find are extremely difficulty in orcein metabolism. Can you give me some ideas?
Beautiful! Is it the Stone-Lichen I used to make a beautiful rich reddish-Brown colour, with chemicals Alun and vinsten (Sw)? For this fine purple: No further chemicals needed for permanence?
I have a question. I started fermenting lichen and now realize I have so much more than I need. Will it keep longer than 6 months if I leave it in the jar? If I want to keep it longer should I strain out the lichen and boil the dye before saving it for later. Thanks for the info in the video so far. My wood pile was covered in the stuff and I got a bit overexcited, which is why I now have way more dye than I need at a time.
Is there a need to (pre)mordant, or is there enough tannins in the lichen? If there is a need for premordant, what would give the best effect for purple?
what about from dead trees that are still standing? also any suggestions for how to use a grill to do this? no outdoor outlet and i have to make wood ash anyway. can you show the pink/red colors you got too?
I try to use lichens that will be composted soon, so downed wood and bark are preferred. Lichens on standing trees may be around for a long time and I don't want to destroy them prematurely. If you use a grill or other heat source, just make sure the pot isn't one you care about. You can directly heat or use a boiling water bath. As for the other color, this is a sock that I made with both, labelled by pH. twitter.com/LiberJulian/status/1344310882998886400?t=gHBLyhGndW7tqlkZofrRow&s=19
Hi love your vid explanation. I see that you did not use salt as others do. I think this would change the Ph right? My Lichen Vat.. is deep purple at 12-13 undiluted and 10-11 diluted with approx 1 part Dye to 2 parts water. Is this too strong and should I dilute more? Also when you use Acid or Alkaline to change or colour after dyed… with this stay permanently this changed colour? Thank you for any help.
I haven't kept track of exact ratios because I can't easily quantify concentration, but you can add more dye and keep boiling if you want deeper color. I think I would start at 1:4 or more diluted. As for the color permanence, it seems fully reversible when dipped in solutions of varying pH.
I collected lots of lichen on fallen trees on my propety, and it had been soaking in water and ammonia for 2 months now, and no sign of purple at the moment. The liquid is dark brown with some dark red hues, but it yields some uninteresting brownish dirty tone. Do you think it will really turn purple in a couple more months or it should have already started to look like purple is on the way?
@@momentobooks it's also possible that it might not be a lecanoric acid containing lichen. If you have some more of it you can try to scratch off the outer layer to reveal the white cortex, then put a drop of concentrated bleach on that spot. If it turns red, it probably is a lichen that will work to make the dye.
It took nearly 5 months before I saw ANY purple for mine. Before that, the liquid was a deep brown, but when I shook it, the bubbles were a pale cream, and turned greyish when I opened the jar to expose them to air. After 5 months with still no sign of purple, I ended up filtering the solids out and adding more ammonia to the dark liquid, just in case, because it didn't smell much of ammonia anymore. Within 2 weeks, I had purple.
Unfortunately the product I used does not state the concentration. I assume that it is 5-10%. Whichever product you use should work fine. I believe that the ammonia is not limiting the reaction, but likely oxygen and the extraction rate of lecanoric acid from the lichen.
Ammonia can be bought as a household cleaner, and while it is energy-intensive to make (see Haber-Bosch process), this a tiny amount compared to what was used to grow your food.
I appreciate finding this video however I cringed when I saw you wringing out the yarn. You shouldn't do that as it can felt delicate fibers. I don't normally leave anything slightly negative because I really appreciate the work you are doing to publish this video but if you are more gentle you will do better in the long run. Ask me how I know. :)
After a decent windstorm, I was able to collect enough lichen to fill a 1 L jar, which then provided dye for about 400 or 500 g of wool. It will take time, but the lichen gives more pigment than expected!
French Purple: The lichen is extracted by urine or ammonia, then the extract is acidified, the dissolved dye precipitates out and is washed. Then it is dissolved in ammonia again, the solution is heated in air until it becomes purple, then it is precipitated out with calcium chloride. The resulting insoluble purple solid is known as French purple, a fast lichen dye that was much more stable than other lichen dyes.
Hi William. I am attempting to make a lichen purple ink! I am concerned about how it will react to light, this sounds like a solution! Have you made it yourself?
I'm in contact with a chemist who i hope can help me. I sent him some lichen.
@@wsbaileythat's great! How did you come upon this information?
@@modo5091
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcein
I like that you adressed ethical collecting. :)
Thank you for the video.
I have looked everywhere for a "soup to nuts" method of using lichen as a die and you have done it! I also live on the east coast and I thought that the lichen that I had collected was the common Green Shield (Flavoparmelia caperata) but your instructions on using a drop of bleach verified what I had initially thought was Punctelia rudecta. Yay! Purples!!!
I love your step by step directions from harvesting, removal from bark, and the beginning to the end of the dying process. Thank you so much for an incredibly informative video! A++ !
Gorgeous! My MIL was cleaning graves on Memorial Day this year and i asked her to save any lichen she found. I was expecting some of the xanthoria lichens because she described it as bright yellow-green, but instead she brought back nearly a quart of this! Looking forward to trying it out.
What a thorough and informative video, thank you so much! Just a heads up, that if you pre-wet your fiber before dyeing, it will aid in the dyeing process by making it easier for the dye to evenly penetrate the fiber :)
This is amazing. I never heard of this process. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you so much, purple is my favorite color, my mother used plants, including lichen to dye wool and silk, on the west coast we have a large variety of moss and lichen! I'm going to experiment! My mom is gone so no help from her I'm on my own!
Thank you for this video! I‘ve never seen such a interesting color dyeing idea from lichen. Also it’s interesting that you use to gather lichen chopsticks and a tofu package and cook it with a rice cooker😊
I flinched when you wrung out that skein.
💜💜💜💜Yaaay I love the color purple and almost exclusively wear only that. Thank you:) am exciting to go through the process soon
Absolutely mesmerised.
Thank you for this video, and your dedication to keeping an ancient craft alive.
Gorgeous, well saturated color. I haven’t yet dyed with lichen.
The Phoenicians would have gone bonkers for this lichen haha. Thanks for the great video!
Stunning! 😍
Definitely less effort than Tyrian Purple from murex...
This was actually used as a substitute for Tyrian purple, or a way to "stretch" the authentic dye! There are a number of historical samples that were originally believed to be dyed with Tyrian purple that they're now finding out were actually orcein!
Very beautiful shade. 💜
Amazing to watch the process happen - thank you for sharing this video!
you should have a rack under the glass jar - like they do with canning.
Thank you for this tutorial! It was very fascinating!
How does the high ph of the ammonia affect the integrity of the protien fiber. Protien fibers do better with low ph. Did you use a mordant to lock the color into the fiber? If so what kind? Did you let the wool cool to the same
temperature as the rinse water so it wouldn't felt? Is the color persistent or fugitive in the sun over time? does it wash well? Finally it's best not to wring out wool skeins, instead roll the skien in a dry towel. You made a very nteresting video.
By the time you're ready to actually dye, a lot of the ammonia is gone. Yes, 10 is a higher pH than wool would like long-term, but it's not actually much worse than many soaps or detergents, so it should be fine for short term.
Lichens tend to be high in tannins, so lichen dyes don't require a mordant. However, orcein is kind of prone to fading due to light. In one of the other comments, someone else has posted a recipe for french purple, which is a method of extracting/treating the dye which is supposedly more light-safe, but I haven't tried it yet. It's in my plans, though!
Good job we don't have 'smelly-vision' 😆 I did 2 massive ammonia vats of 2 different lychens as a tree came down in the wind...skip forward 8 months and I just made a brown smelly yuk-fest 😔
I'm going to stick with food colouring from now on but well done to you for being successful 😃
How interesting!
Would be great to know how this dye was “discovered” (I.e. using the ammonia to extract the pigment).
It's been around for a while! First urine was used, then ammonia later. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orcein
Magnifique j'adore cette couleur naturelle, merci beaucoup pour le partage
Hello thanks for your video, i am now fermenting my own! will this colour fade in sunlight?
Thank you - informative and interesting and I loved the colour
Last summer, I made this according to your directions and it worked great! Trying it again and after three weeks I have what looks like grape juice colored solution. My question is: How do I know when it's ready?
Awesome! I think the longer you let it go, the deeper the color for a given amount of liquid. I'm also not sure at which point the lichen is exhausted.
(This is a new batch from lichen gathered over the summer.)
@@ellenmorris6915 if it's like a deep purple grape juice, then you're probably ready to go!
GREAT ! You show us pictures of the lichen and how to test it.
So cool! Where did you learn to do this?
Thanks! I learned mostly from here: www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.fungimag.com/summer-2014-articles/LR2%2520V7I2%252066-69%2520Dies.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwigwezImuL1AhXkSt8KHbEwB84QFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2OpIvmiPKaF18Cs9vCyh4a, and looking into which lichens had the right compounds!
Thank you , nice explanation of id lichen parts. Just be careful not to be so alkaline to damage the wool greatly.
If you use any acid like citric acid it will be pink or red, is that what you said? I couldn’t hear exactly. Thanks.
Yes, you could use citric acid or vinegar to lower the pH and get a red to pink color. The color changes if you wash the fiber in a different pH solution.
@@julianliber4633 Is that the same chemically as a plant like a hydrangea bush can grow blue flowers in low PH soil the same plant if put with high PH soil will grow pink flowers?
@@TrudySchwartzBurrill it's similar, in that pH affects color, but the compound is different. Many pigments (natural and synthetic) are pH sensitive, and can be used as indicators. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PH_indicator
@@julianliber4633 thank you for the link and information. 👍
Hello, Thank you for this instructional video. Can you say how long the color will last; also how long can the liquid dye be stored? Thank you
The dye seems stable for as long as I've had it, so > 1 year. The color on the yarn is also durable, without notable fading for about a year of use.
I was looking for a plant dye without using mordant and here I found it. Thank you
It's really hard for me to find a good lichen in a place like Vietnam, most of the lichens here are usually very thin and easily decompose into humus, most of the lichens I find are extremely difficulty in orcein metabolism. Can you give me some ideas?
I wonder if it would work as a hair tones
L'Oreal has a patent, so probably! patents.google.com/patent/FR2907005A1/en
Beautiful! Is it the Stone-Lichen I used to make a beautiful rich reddish-Brown colour, with chemicals Alun and vinsten (Sw)? For this fine purple: No further chemicals needed for permanence?
No mordant is needed! You can get the color with the lichen dye alone.
Thanks for the interesting video. Are you from the San Diego area? Your Name sounds familiar .
Could I use a mordant for colour fixing?
Fortunately for lichen dyes, no mordant is needed!
I have a question. I started fermenting lichen and now realize I have so much more than I need. Will it keep longer than 6 months if I leave it in the jar? If I want to keep it longer should I strain out the lichen and boil the dye before saving it for later. Thanks for the info in the video so far. My wood pile was covered in the stuff and I got a bit overexcited, which is why I now have way more dye than I need at a time.
I've had my jars for 3 years now, still works great!
did you strain out the lichen, or just leave it as is? @@julianliber4633
What an astonishing color! Is it colorfast?
That's what I want to know
Is there a need to (pre)mordant, or is there enough tannins in the lichen? If there is a need for premordant, what would give the best effect for purple?
No need to pre-mordant. Not sure of the exact reason, but the dye will bind without a mordant present.
I always knew this lichen was special. Although, ammonia is not something I like to mess with. Pokeberries make purple too.
what about from dead trees that are still standing? also any suggestions for how to use a grill to do this? no outdoor outlet and i have to make wood ash anyway. can you show the pink/red colors you got too?
I try to use lichens that will be composted soon, so downed wood and bark are preferred. Lichens on standing trees may be around for a long time and I don't want to destroy them prematurely. If you use a grill or other heat source, just make sure the pot isn't one you care about. You can directly heat or use a boiling water bath. As for the other color, this is a sock that I made with both, labelled by pH. twitter.com/LiberJulian/status/1344310882998886400?t=gHBLyhGndW7tqlkZofrRow&s=19
Oh I want that sock😁!Julian you are very skilled
Hi love your vid explanation. I see that you did not use salt as others do. I think this would change the Ph right? My Lichen Vat.. is deep purple at 12-13 undiluted and 10-11 diluted with approx 1 part Dye to 2 parts water. Is this too strong and should I dilute more? Also when you use Acid or Alkaline to change or colour after dyed… with this stay permanently this changed colour? Thank you for any help.
I haven't kept track of exact ratios because I can't easily quantify concentration, but you can add more dye and keep boiling if you want deeper color. I think I would start at 1:4 or more diluted. As for the color permanence, it seems fully reversible when dipped in solutions of varying pH.
Awesome Color won’t stirring make the wool felt?
The kind I used seems mostly resistant to felting, but that may happen to other kinds of wool yarn.
@@julianliber4633 thank you
This was very helpful! Thank you!
I added lime of milk. Does this affect the target product?
Is that in addition to ammonia or instead of it? Raising the pH generally makes the color more purple but otherwise shouldn't effect the dyeing.
@@julianliber4633 I added it during fermentation
@@LK1zt as long as there is plenty of ammonia and oxygen, it should be fine!
@@julianliber4633 Thank you for your feedback. Have a good day
Will it stay purple after long years of sun exposure?
@@Gwenny89 it will fade gradually with sun exposure. Unfortunately most naturally-derived pigments are less colorfast than synthetic ones.
Would it be possible to make ink with lichen like this? And if so must it smell of ammonia? How would you turn it into an ink?
It seems like French Purple is made this way. There's a comment that explains more.
I collected lots of lichen on fallen trees on my propety, and it had been soaking in water and ammonia for 2 months now, and no sign of purple at the moment. The liquid is dark brown with some dark red hues, but it yields some uninteresting brownish dirty tone. Do you think it will really turn purple in a couple more months or it should have already started to look like purple is on the way?
It's possible that it will turn purple, which happens faster with oxidation. Do you open the jar for air?
@@julianliber4633 Yes, once in a while but I will do it more often to see if it changes anything. Thanks!
@@momentobooks it's also possible that it might not be a lecanoric acid containing lichen. If you have some more of it you can try to scratch off the outer layer to reveal the white cortex, then put a drop of concentrated bleach on that spot. If it turns red, it probably is a lichen that will work to make the dye.
@@julianliber4633 Oh! this would explain it! I put a couple different lichen in the jar.
It took nearly 5 months before I saw ANY purple for mine. Before that, the liquid was a deep brown, but when I shook it, the bubbles were a pale cream, and turned greyish when I opened the jar to expose them to air. After 5 months with still no sign of purple, I ended up filtering the solids out and adding more ammonia to the dark liquid, just in case, because it didn't smell much of ammonia anymore. Within 2 weeks, I had purple.
THAT WAS AMAZING! I had no idea! Mother Nature, yas!
Does it need to be heated ?
Yes, I believe so. It is possible that the dyeing will work offer a long time at low temperature, but I haven't tested that.
GREAT video!
How to prevent the colour by fading?
Unfortunately I don't believe there is a way to prevent fading as part of the dyeing process. Dyed fiber will fade with exposure to sunlight.
Could you tell me the concentration of the aqueous ammonia solution?
Unfortunately the product I used does not state the concentration. I assume that it is 5-10%. Whichever product you use should work fine. I believe that the ammonia is not limiting the reaction, but likely oxygen and the extraction rate of lecanoric acid from the lichen.
is it lightfast?
I've noticed fading after regular wear in sunny weather after about 6-8 weeks. The color becomes less intense, but retains its hue.
Where do you find the ammonia and is it good for the earth ?
Ammonia can be bought as a household cleaner, and while it is energy-intensive to make (see Haber-Bosch process), this a tiny amount compared to what was used to grow your food.
How long did this entire process take for you?
I think this dye batch was about 2 months, but it can be done faster if you regularly open the jar to oxygenate the mixture and shake often.
I use the korean metal chopsticks.
Are there any other common chemicals besides ammonia that would work?
Before industrial ammonia production, urine was used, but standards of hygiene are up to you.
@@julianliber4633 Interesting. Thanks for the info.
This is so so so so cool 😭🤌✨
hell yea dude
I appreciate finding this video however I cringed when I saw you wringing out the yarn. You shouldn't do that as it can felt delicate fibers. I don't normally leave anything slightly negative because I really appreciate the work you are doing to publish this video but if you are more gentle you will do better in the long run. Ask me how I know. :)
It is a beautiful color, but you'd have to collect & use a LOT of lichen for just 1 garment.
After a decent windstorm, I was able to collect enough lichen to fill a 1 L jar, which then provided dye for about 400 or 500 g of wool. It will take time, but the lichen gives more pigment than expected!
ty! this video is awesome
W - O - W
After all this I think I would rather buy some purple yarn at the store! 😅
Boring
So don’t silk your wine or coffee on it.
You should NOT be ringing your yarn like that - spin it in a lettuce spinner. Ringing it stretches it which is not good, especially for wet wool.