"I've heard both...." Once again Mithrandir brings reason to this delicate topic. Keep up the great work Mellon! The world needs more Tolkien. Hope all is well.
@@kauetadaieski3131 if only elves were so egotistical and have given the dwarfs a payment for their hard work. They just wanted to be recognized for their skills as great miners and craftsmen.
Sindarin elves like, Thranduil & his farther as well as Celeborn(Galadriel's husband) lived in Doriath during the 1st age under King Thingol. Thats why Legolas/mirkwood elves only heard the elves' side of the story. Also when Galadriel wanted to go to Lorien via Moria, Celeborn refused to go, bc of his hatred of dwarves, Galadriel was a Noldor elf and had no reason to hate dwarves.
In the old MERP Rpg, they made something of the rivalry between dwarves and elves but said this was less so between dwarves and the Sindar Elves. I think they must have just based this on Legolas and Gimli at the end of the novel as it seems to me that the Noldor and the dwarves got on fine most of the time. The example of Celebrimbor and Narvi is given in the video and Elrond welcomes Thorin and company. Dwarves had come to the rescue of Elrond in the second age when his forces were under siege too. On the flip side, the Noldor are responsible for a lot of bad stuff which ultimately comes to the door of all elves and leads to Sindar being the language used by all elves in Middle Earth. It is also worth pointing out that the dwarves from Belegost did not join with those forces who went to do battle in the caves, being not wholly convinced it would seem by the telling of events as given. The history of dwarves and elves is complicated. To say they hated each other is to gloss over a lot of what they achieve when working together. By the time of the War of the Ring, the communities around Middle Earth had spent centuries receding into their own little worlds. The main recent interaction of dwarves and elves was when Thorin's company were held prisoner in King Thrandruil's Halls, the subsequent fighting at Erebor where they were at odds with each other only to bury the hatchet when the orcs turned up to the battlefield. Whilst the outcome was to the good, I imagine there were still some grudges held on both sides. It is against this backdrop that Legolas and Gimli come to be in each other's company and thus several thousand years of history is refracted poorly through a very narrow prism.
Tolkien was a genius not many can create a world as intricate as he did middle earth , the mythology , the different races , even the languages etc . To think he started writing in the trenches of war is even more crazy . R.I.P to Mr Tolkien and thank you for giving us such a great world to escape to .
Given that Yavanna prophesied it with her foreboding about the differing attitude of the two races towards her trees, the enmity was going to happen one way or another. The Nauglamir, or more specifically, Thingol’s foolish impulse to have the Silmaril added to it, thereby waking the Oath of Feanor, was simply the biggest of multiple clashes between the races.
I think the Dwarves and Menfolk get along so well because Human behavior is closer to Dwarves, and vice versa, then to Elves. Humans are the in-between, sharing traits from both but are largely more pragmatic in thought, and are given to the same some-what dour outlook then the more cerebral, cultured, and celebratory Elves.
The third age of Middle Earth would have been so much quieter if everyone didn't keep saying, "Ohh! Shiny!" Guys (and that includes _you_ Isildur), nicking other people's baubles doesn't end well.
Hurin the cursed. I definately want to hear his Story from you, as you are amongst the best content creators covering Tolkiens work, of which I know of. Best wishes to you and for All your endeavours.
That event might have ignited the feud, but Thingol's hateful words to those dwarves prior to his murder is proof that an innate dwarf-inferior-elf-superior idea was quite evident.
He certainly mellowed after Beren and Luthien but before that he really was an ass and should have left ruling Doriath to Amelia’s who’d obviously done a far better job
Hurin vs mim , was personal & likely would not engender the hate of a people , plus mim was a petty dwarf of no listed house or country except where he lay claim , the elves always looked at the dwarves after awakening as unlovely so had a certain contempt even though the Noldor saw their value , the attempted taking of the Silmarills did it , it even drew them into Feagnors curse … like the would be forgiven …
One more of correction. The grey elves did not reject the call of the Valar, they accepted it but then turned away from the journey when thingol was lost. By definition it was the dark elves who rejected the call.
If the dwarves stubbornness was the same, and Elven pride the same, then regardless of the circumstances of their creation I’d say they would always have issues throughout history.
As an optimistic person (at least when it comes to Lord of the Rings) I would say elves and dwarves could have gotten along just fine. Sadly there was a lot of inteference. One being the 2 dwarves who lied and framed the elves for everything, resulting in their war, or at least a battle. And then Sauron and the 7 rings which if I understand it correctly affected the dwarves by making them greedy and otherwise corrupting them, even if not fully like the 9 did with the mortal men doomed to die. Still, if you look at Gimli and Legolas, Navi and Celebrimbor. Those are amazing examples of what happens when a dwarf and elf look past whatever stories and previous misconceptions and simply be themselves.
Id be very interested in any videos about the songs in the books, any info from the source on the topic and maybe what melodies or rhythms they were sung in from Tolkien's perspective.
I know it's obviously Lord of the Rings art, but the images you use in your thumbnails remind me of the Dark Souls games, very cool. I just been playing them alot lately so their similarities stood out lol.
They’re always going to clash, elves are proud, noble, and intelligent beings, they know they’re the best as well so some are almost a bit stuck up. Dwarves are the opposite, stubborn, won’t accept elves are the superior race. Then there’s their love of treasure. So much more complex than than that when you take the valar etc into consideration and all the groups of elves. Got to love the woodland elves the best though. Legolas and his father are beasts !
I'm surprised you didn't include the rings of power. the 7 given to the dwarves made them even more greedy which further split them from the elves. Hurin the Cursed. It's such a sad overlooked tale that needs to get told more.
Interesting 4 Clans of Dwarths are in palisor under control of most important morgoth servant Fankil ho was than ho corupted mens in first edge to go to help morgoth in beleriand and belegors and nagrod are distroed by nandors of osiriand than that bastards turned back after dostroing Artanor/Doriath and sauron was able to give only to Moria a ring but well tolkien writed entire legendarium with 0 logic plus like a quadripolar personality , sauron was in reality Thu ,Finwe haved 4 Sons not 3 Elwe was Tinvelint Celeborn was telerian from valinor not from Artanor , Beren was nandorian elf sauron in generali din not existed was Tevildo
Good video. They were doomed to always have suspicion but through the first age missteps. They rivalary turned deadly. Dwarves elves showed they could flourish with one another. The creation of nogothrond, menegroth, thingols receiving aid through dwarven crafted weapons to fight morgoth and as you pointed out eregion / Moria. Thingol created this long and unresolved mistrust. “, Melian warned Thingol about sending Beren for a Silmaril, a quest which would eventually lead to Doriath's ruin.” His Mia wife warned him the silmaril would bring down Doriath and he didn’t listen. Chaos, war and one sided story telling kept the grudge long past the fall of doriath.
How they get along with it to be depending on the behavioral choices as interior development groups. And how they choose to interact with one another, and he also have to factor in if they're looking at long-term quality of life for the zone or whether or not they are only interested in taking what they can and leaving quickly. Then you have to factor in what are the chores divided amongst the groups to actually give them a reason to actually socialize in a healthy environment and then figure out activities that are co-supported by both or all parties.
There must be more than just a quarrel about a piece of jewelry (however beautiful). That is just too far (several thousands of years) in the past, with much more pressing matters (i.e. Sauron, Orcs and whatnot) pushing them towards an alliance... even moreso considering they aren't rivals in terms of territory, quite the opposite (they complement each other in skills and resources).
The answer depends on a certain point of view: I agree that the dwarves started it by their lust for the Silmaril (and their subsequent actions)… but then King Thingol didn’t handled the situation well and so exasperated the tensions by being haughty. Really, though, it was the curse of the Silmarils at work throughout-so from that perspective it was the fault of the Elves… more specifically, one elf: Fëanor.
@@TrainsFilmedByRussellBynum dwarfs are shit that never faight morgoth in majority of legendariums ithen the major armies of Fankil in Palisor was from dwarths ho faight avars ithen in 4th edge bicose fankil îs live
@@adrianciobanu5856 Dwarves helped a lot the elves against Morgoth. when Morgoth returned after destroying the Trees, The elves of Beleriand received the military help of the Dwarves and they also supply the Noldors with weapons and armors.
Thranduil is, to me at least, the only person with a mildly justified mistrust of them, given the whole Doriath getting sacked and dragged through the floor like it owned the dwarves money.
You have your timeline all out of whack. The back door from Moria to Eregion was created in the early part of the Second Age well after the events of the First Age. Moria and Eregion, later Hollin, had very good relations hence the need for the door and its simple password. Even after the fall of Moria and the relocation of the bulk of Durin's folk to Erebor they maintained good relations with the local elves, this time Thranduil's realm, until Smaug attacked and Thranduil refused to waste elven lives on an unwinnable war.
I think the only event that would have changed, without the battle of the thousands caves, is that Thranduil may have not attacked Erebor, besides some details, e.g. that Celeborn would pass through Moria to follow Galadriel.
I wonder if there was a taint on that necklace since it had lain in a Dragon's horde for so long. We see the Dragon sickness affecting Thorin in the Hobbit and I wonder if both the Elves and Dwarfs both became covetous of it due to the effect?
Yes. Considering that the Dwarves and Doriath had a positive trading relationship throughout most of the first age (to the point where even “great companies well armed for their protection in the perilous lands between Aros and Gelion” were allowed in to work and trade), it does seem likely that there was something more going on than just regular greed, pride, and bigotry, and dragon sickness from the Nauglamír and/or some form of possessive powers from the silmaril is probably the most likely explanation
Hurin the cursed! It does seem plausible these two races could have gotten along better, but it makes a lot of sense that they didn't. The natural differences combined with the curse of the silmarils led them on a dark path, but in the end they did put their differences behind them.
About your last theory : The tree loving elves and the stone loving dwarves would not devellop a rivalry because they are so different because they are indeed so different. If you take real life as a comparison, the worst hatred between two groups are often people who are quite similar and live nearby. So the elves living in the forest and the dwarves living in the mountain wouldn't meet much and have too few point of comparison to grow a rivalry.
Elves & dwarves were so different that there was bound to be tension, but I think they would have politely tolerated each other's differences if it wasn't for the Nauglamir. The animosity is the fault of the dwarves (mainly the 2 that survived attacking Thingol) though Thingol could have given them fair pay for their work. Frankly, the killing, theft & lying is surprising from a generally honourable race like the dwarves. Having said that, I think the Silmarils cause corruption in people because they contain such pure power - the light they contain made the elves that visited Valinor in the early ages much harder than later elves. Though the Silmarils are not inherently evil, I believe they have a similar effect to The 1 Ring - just look how Feanor & his sons acted with the oath & Kinslaying & stuff. I don't know if you watch American Dad, but the Silmarils remind me of the golden gem-encrusted turd that appears in several episodes.
But the Silmarils burned the last two sons of Feanor when they tried to hold them because of the evil they had done. The Silmaril didn't burn Beren when he held it. So the Silmarils detested evil.
I have felt that the necklace in The Hobbit movies was hinted at being this jewel. One minor detail - Eru allowed the dwarves to live, as when they were to be destroyed, they quailed, and Eru realised they were not toys but sentient and as such deserved life.
The elves were closely attuned to the music of the Ainur, they were masters of Illuvitar's creation. The Dwarves, being a step removed from the creator probably caused a bit of an Uncanny Valley response in the elves. I think there would likely continue to be tension to some degree regardless of the jewelry situation.
seems the Nauglamir had the same attractiveness as the One Ring. Of course in this case because of the curse surrounding the Noldor and the Silmarill. Then again Eru said that his first children and the children of Aule would never truly understand and love each other. Thats what he told Aule in the Silmarillion so I don't think its just an idea? even more highly should we regard the few friendships that actually happened between the two races.
Huron sounds interesting. All so, never a good idea to put out a "like limit" on a video. It really turns people off to a channel. Well it does for me. Anyway, thank you all and hope you all are well.
I don't know what type of job you guys do but most jobs try to upsell their stuff like if you go to fast food would you like that large size etc everybody's just trying to make as much money as they can the more likes it gets the better it helps with the algorithm
nauglamir was a catalyst...it was going to happen either way. the dwarves as a race are frumpy, whilst the elves are to aloof. too much ammo to have nothing start.
"I have not heard that it was the fault of the Elves." Really Legolas? You haven't heard of how Celebrimbor was hoodwinked by a guy calling himself the Lord of Gifts leading to the ruin of Eregion and the sealing off of Moria?
@@leonardofaber5823 This is why the doors of Durin were closed, separating the two. Legolas was speaking specifically of the friendship between the Elves of Hollin and the Dwarves of Khazad-dum.
@@TJDious the Dwarves of Moria shut their door foi protect themselves from the incoming War, but never blamed nor hated the Elves because of that. They did not even know about the Rings of Power prior to receiving them from Sauron.
I have one question what If on only the halv of the one ring where molted in mount doom. Would half Saurons spirit and power get destroyd or would the outcome be the same?
"I've heard both...." Once again Mithrandir brings reason to this delicate topic. Keep up the great work Mellon! The world needs more Tolkien. Hope all is well.
Hurin the cursed!
Yes, definitely get into the curse of Hurin and how it played out on his line. I would love to see that one.
Hurin the cursed. One thing: if the elves mistook dwarves for animals, and hunted them, does that mean, that they ate them as well?
I agree in that the elf-dwarf animus was ingrained within both races from the very beginning; Eru even says so. Also, Hurin, the Cursed.
What?! I was going for midget race !
Or "Pygmy-Elf"
Or Smurf
"Smurf"
"Pygmy-Elf "
If only Thingol had been the wisest of the Children of Iluvatar, instead of the tallest...
If only Dwarves were not so greedy...
@@kauetadaieski3131 if only elves were so egotistical and have given the dwarfs a payment for their hard work. They just wanted to be recognized for their skills as great miners and craftsmen.
Separation was the only way forward. Eru Iluvatar knew that there could not be true peace between His children.
Sindarin elves like, Thranduil & his farther as well as Celeborn(Galadriel's husband) lived in Doriath during the 1st age under King Thingol. Thats why Legolas/mirkwood elves only heard the elves' side of the story. Also when Galadriel wanted to go to Lorien via Moria, Celeborn refused to go, bc of his hatred of dwarves, Galadriel was a Noldor elf and had no reason to hate dwarves.
In the old MERP Rpg, they made something of the rivalry between dwarves and elves but said this was less so between dwarves and the Sindar Elves. I think they must have just based this on Legolas and Gimli at the end of the novel as it seems to me that the Noldor and the dwarves got on fine most of the time. The example of Celebrimbor and Narvi is given in the video and Elrond welcomes Thorin and company. Dwarves had come to the rescue of Elrond in the second age when his forces were under siege too.
On the flip side, the Noldor are responsible for a lot of bad stuff which ultimately comes to the door of all elves and leads to Sindar being the language used by all elves in Middle Earth. It is also worth pointing out that the dwarves from Belegost did not join with those forces who went to do battle in the caves, being not wholly convinced it would seem by the telling of events as given.
The history of dwarves and elves is complicated. To say they hated each other is to gloss over a lot of what they achieve when working together. By the time of the War of the Ring, the communities around Middle Earth had spent centuries receding into their own little worlds. The main recent interaction of dwarves and elves was when Thorin's company were held prisoner in King Thrandruil's Halls, the subsequent fighting at Erebor where they were at odds with each other only to bury the hatchet when the orcs turned up to the battlefield. Whilst the outcome was to the good, I imagine there were still some grudges held on both sides. It is against this backdrop that Legolas and Gimli come to be in each other's company and thus several thousand years of history is refracted poorly through a very narrow prism.
Tolkien was a genius not many can create a world as intricate as he did middle earth , the mythology , the different races , even the languages etc . To think he started writing in the trenches of war is even more crazy . R.I.P to Mr Tolkien and thank you for giving us such a great world to escape to .
Hurin the Cursed is a very important character, who needs his own dedicated video! Loved this one, keep it up 🙂
Given that Yavanna prophesied it with her foreboding about the differing attitude of the two races towards her trees, the enmity was going to happen one way or another. The Nauglamir, or more specifically, Thingol’s foolish impulse to have the Silmaril added to it, thereby waking the Oath of Feanor, was simply the biggest of multiple clashes between the races.
I think the Dwarves and Menfolk get along so well because Human behavior is closer to Dwarves, and vice versa, then to Elves. Humans are the in-between, sharing traits from both but are largely more pragmatic in thought, and are given to the same some-what dour outlook then the more cerebral, cultured, and celebratory Elves.
The third age of Middle Earth would have been so much quieter if everyone didn't keep saying, "Ohh! Shiny!" Guys (and that includes _you_ Isildur), nicking other people's baubles doesn't end well.
Hurin the cursed.
I definately want to hear his Story from you, as you are amongst the best content creators covering Tolkiens work, of which I know of.
Best wishes to you and for All your endeavours.
1000% Would love to see a video on Hurin the Cursed!
Keep going! You're doing great!
Great explanation my friend I look forward to watching every video you put out
I totally thought the same thing about their creation stories and how that forever defined their relationship
Honestly, the death of Thingol hit me hard when reading the Silmarillion even though I expected it. He was a great king to say the least
He was an ass. King Thingol had it coming.
I really liked King Thingol too and disliked the greedy dwarves for slaying him.
I’m not sure he had it coming, but he was definitely a dick.
That event might have ignited the feud, but Thingol's hateful words to those dwarves prior to his murder is proof that an innate dwarf-inferior-elf-superior idea was quite evident.
He certainly mellowed after Beren and Luthien but before that he really was an ass and should have left ruling Doriath to Amelia’s who’d obviously done a far better job
Started by Dwarven greed and a Dwarven lie. I'd say the Dwarves have a great deal to make amends for.
Hurin vs mim , was personal & likely would not engender the hate of a people , plus mim was a petty dwarf of no listed house or country except where he lay claim , the elves always looked at the dwarves after awakening as unlovely so had a certain contempt even though the Noldor saw their value , the attempted taking of the Silmarills did it , it even drew them into Feagnors curse … like the would be forgiven …
One more of correction. The grey elves did not reject the call of the Valar, they accepted it but then turned away from the journey when thingol was lost. By definition it was the dark elves who rejected the call.
If the dwarves stubbornness was the same, and Elven pride the same, then regardless of the circumstances of their creation I’d say they would always have issues throughout history.
I love this channel! I would love a vid of Hurin the cursed, but also of Fingolfin and Faenor and the curse of the Silmarils and Kin-Slaying.
Awesome video I'm excited for this one
It's absolutely incredible the depth and breadth of Tolkien's lore
IT's littered with so much incidental detail you could be forgiven for mistaking it with real history
As an optimistic person (at least when it comes to Lord of the Rings) I would say elves and dwarves could have gotten along just fine. Sadly there was a lot of inteference. One being the 2 dwarves who lied and framed the elves for everything, resulting in their war, or at least a battle. And then Sauron and the 7 rings which if I understand it correctly affected the dwarves by making them greedy and otherwise corrupting them, even if not fully like the 9 did with the mortal men doomed to die.
Still, if you look at Gimli and Legolas, Navi and Celebrimbor. Those are amazing examples of what happens when a dwarf and elf look past whatever stories and previous misconceptions and simply be themselves.
The rings enhanced already present flaws. The dwarves were already predisposed to be closed off and “dig too deep”.
God I love the Dwarves. Give me more Dwarvish content!!
the dwarves are great indeed!
No they sucked. They smell bad.
agreed
Baruk Khazad, brother
I agree with your backstories being part of the explanation it helps alot with something as complex as Tolkien
awesome vid James I liked and enjoyed it
The Elves should have just paid the Dwarves in beer. Lots and lots of beer.
Hurin the cursed, coming across your retellings has been a fantastic discovery.
Hurin the cursed.
Sounds hella interesting. Look forward for the video :)
Hurin The Cursed
Would be awesome to hear more about the curse
Id be very interested in any videos about the songs in the books, any info from the source on the topic and maybe what melodies or rhythms they were sung in from Tolkien's perspective.
I would definitely love to see a video about Hurin the cursed
I know it's obviously Lord of the Rings art, but the images you use in your thumbnails remind me of the Dark Souls games, very cool. I just been playing them alot lately so their similarities stood out lol.
They’re always going to clash, elves are proud, noble, and intelligent beings, they know they’re the best as well so some are almost a bit stuck up. Dwarves are the opposite, stubborn, won’t accept elves are the superior race. Then there’s their love of treasure.
So much more complex than than that when you take the valar etc into consideration and all the groups of elves.
Got to love the woodland elves the best though. Legolas and his father are beasts !
I'm surprised you didn't include the rings of power. the 7 given to the dwarves made them even more greedy which further split them from the elves.
Hurin the Cursed. It's such a sad overlooked tale that needs to get told more.
Interesting 4 Clans of Dwarths are in palisor under control of most important morgoth servant Fankil ho was than ho corupted mens in first edge to go to help morgoth in beleriand and belegors and nagrod are distroed by nandors of osiriand than that bastards turned back after dostroing Artanor/Doriath and sauron was able to give only to Moria a ring but well tolkien writed entire legendarium with 0 logic plus like a quadripolar personality , sauron was in reality Thu ,Finwe haved 4 Sons not 3 Elwe was Tinvelint Celeborn was telerian from valinor not from Artanor , Beren was nandorian elf sauron in generali din not existed was Tevildo
@@adrianciobanu5856 word salad hard dude
Good video. They were doomed to always have suspicion but through the first age missteps. They rivalary turned deadly. Dwarves elves showed they could flourish with one another. The creation of nogothrond, menegroth, thingols receiving aid through dwarven crafted weapons to fight morgoth and as you pointed out eregion / Moria. Thingol created this long and unresolved mistrust. “, Melian warned Thingol about sending Beren for a Silmaril, a quest which would eventually lead to Doriath's ruin.” His Mia wife warned him the silmaril would bring down Doriath and he didn’t listen. Chaos, war and one sided story telling kept the grudge long past the fall of doriath.
your first born vs adopted idea is very good, I really like it, thanks
How they get along with it to be depending on the behavioral choices as interior development groups. And how they choose to interact with one another, and he also have to factor in if they're looking at long-term quality of life for the zone or whether or not they are only interested in taking what they can and leaving quickly. Then you have to factor in what are the chores divided amongst the groups to actually give them a reason to actually socialize in a healthy environment and then figure out activities that are co-supported by both or all parties.
Hurin the Cursed.
Keep up the epic work. Love all of your work.
More! Doesn’t matter what it is, Precious! We craves more!
Question can yall do a map video on where places are gone to name changes placement
Guys,can someone pls tell me what that soundtrack in the backgeound around 00:26 is?
These ppl are not good at answering comments are they?
Been asking the same question over and over and no one seem to know the answer.
I would love to see a 3 part movie of the Elves vs. Dwarfs
Hurin The Cursed!! I agree with your theory at the end as well. In face I have long thought the same.
There must be more than just a quarrel about a piece of jewelry (however beautiful). That is just too far (several thousands of years) in the past, with much more pressing matters (i.e. Sauron, Orcs and whatnot) pushing them towards an alliance... even moreso considering they aren't rivals in terms of territory, quite the opposite (they complement each other in skills and resources).
Nice work dude thanks
Hurin the cursed!
And many thanks for yet another nice video👍
Great video 👍
Thank you! 😁
The answer depends on a certain point of view:
I agree that the dwarves started it by their lust for the Silmaril (and their subsequent actions)… but then King Thingol didn’t handled the situation well and so exasperated the tensions by being haughty.
Really, though, it was the curse of the Silmarils at work throughout-so from that perspective it was the fault of the Elves… more specifically, one elf: Fëanor.
Thingol sent them away and they killed him. That is not handling a situation very well.
@@kauetadaieski3131 True; however, I think they would have not killed him if he still paid them. Not paying was the excuse they needed.
@@TrainsFilmedByRussellBynum dwarfs are shit that never faight morgoth in majority of legendariums ithen the major armies of Fankil in Palisor was from dwarths ho faight avars ithen in 4th edge bicose fankil îs live
@@adrianciobanu5856 dwarf gang dwarf gang
@@adrianciobanu5856 Dwarves helped a lot the elves against Morgoth. when Morgoth returned after destroying the Trees, The elves of Beleriand received the military help of the Dwarves and they also supply the Noldors with weapons and armors.
Hurin the Cursed!
Only if you do a Morgoth voice when he binds him to the chair!
The image of Auile making the dwarves looks like a giant Aragorn lol
Another great entry! On to Hurin theCursed
Thranduil is, to me at least, the only person with a mildly justified mistrust of them, given the whole Doriath getting sacked and dragged through the floor like it owned the dwarves money.
Celeborn, too - Thingol was a kinsman of his.
I share Thranduil's sentiment about these greedy dwarves.
You have your timeline all out of whack.
The back door from Moria to Eregion was created in the early part of the Second Age well after the events of the First Age. Moria and Eregion, later Hollin, had very good relations hence the need for the door and its simple password.
Even after the fall of Moria and the relocation of the bulk of Durin's folk to Erebor they maintained good relations with the local elves, this time Thranduil's realm, until Smaug attacked and Thranduil refused to waste elven lives on an unwinnable war.
Huron the Cursed please and thank you!
I really appreciate all your videos!
The people demand the video of the cursed
I think the only event that would have changed, without the battle of the thousands caves, is that Thranduil may have not attacked Erebor, besides some details, e.g. that Celeborn would pass through Moria to follow Galadriel.
I wonder if there was a taint on that necklace since it had lain in a Dragon's horde for so long. We see the Dragon sickness affecting Thorin in the Hobbit and I wonder if both the Elves and Dwarfs both became covetous of it due to the effect?
Yes. Considering that the Dwarves and Doriath had a positive trading relationship throughout most of the first age (to the point where even “great companies well armed for their protection in the perilous lands between Aros and Gelion” were allowed in to work and trade), it does seem likely that there was something more going on than just regular greed, pride, and bigotry, and dragon sickness from the Nauglamír and/or some form of possessive powers from the silmaril is probably the most likely explanation
Everyone needs some Hurin the Cursed!
a dedicated vid to the telari elves?
Hurin the cursed!
It does seem plausible these two races could have gotten along better, but it makes a lot of sense that they didn't. The natural differences combined with the curse of the silmarils led them on a dark path, but in the end they did put their differences behind them.
About your last theory : The tree loving elves and the stone loving dwarves would not devellop a rivalry because they are so different because they are indeed so different. If you take real life as a comparison, the worst hatred between two groups are often people who are quite similar and live nearby. So the elves living in the forest and the dwarves living in the mountain wouldn't meet much and have too few point of comparison to grow a rivalry.
Elves & dwarves were so different that there was bound to be tension, but I think they would have politely tolerated each other's differences if it wasn't for the Nauglamir. The animosity is the fault of the dwarves (mainly the 2 that survived attacking Thingol) though Thingol could have given them fair pay for their work. Frankly, the killing, theft & lying is surprising from a generally honourable race like the dwarves. Having said that, I think the Silmarils cause corruption in people because they contain such pure power - the light they contain made the elves that visited Valinor in the early ages much harder than later elves. Though the Silmarils are not inherently evil, I believe they have a similar effect to The 1 Ring - just look how Feanor & his sons acted with the oath & Kinslaying & stuff. I don't know if you watch American Dad, but the Silmarils remind me of the golden gem-encrusted turd that appears in several episodes.
But the Silmarils burned the last two sons of Feanor when they tried to hold them because of the evil they had done. The Silmaril didn't burn Beren when he held it. So the Silmarils detested evil.
@@mrd1433 Like I said, the Silmarils are not evil. But they contain power & power corrupts.
Hurin the cursed!
Hell yeah, now we are talking about the good stuff
I have felt that the necklace in The Hobbit movies was hinted at being this jewel.
One minor detail - Eru allowed the dwarves to live, as when they were to be destroyed, they quailed, and Eru realised they were not toys but sentient and as such deserved life.
It can't be because that necklace is around the brow of earendil the mariner and can be seen in the sky as a star
There probably would be minor resentment as the elves have a haughty way of doing things and the dwarves are, pardon the pun, down to earth.
Well, the elves are proud, but the dwarves are stubborn, so there appears to be a stalemate.
The Dwarves killed the guy...
The elves were closely attuned to the music of the Ainur, they were masters of Illuvitar's creation. The Dwarves, being a step removed from the creator probably caused a bit of an Uncanny Valley response in the elves.
I think there would likely continue to be tension to some degree regardless of the jewelry situation.
seems the Nauglamir had the same attractiveness as the One Ring. Of course in this case because of the curse surrounding the Noldor and the Silmarill.
Then again Eru said that his first children and the children of Aule would never truly understand and love each other. Thats what he told Aule in the Silmarillion so I don't think its just an idea?
even more highly should we regard the few friendships that actually happened between the two races.
Hey guys how can someone contact you? I tried the e-mail but nothing...
Keep up the great job!
Instagram or contact@flawlessfilms.co.uk
Glad you mentioned the petty dwarves
I hate the dwarves greed, I hated how oakshield treated everyone for the riches in the mountain
Huron sounds interesting. All so, never a good idea to put out a "like limit" on a video. It really turns people off to a channel. Well it does for me. Anyway, thank you all and hope you all are well.
I don't know what type of job you guys do but most jobs try to upsell their stuff like if you go to fast food would you like that large size etc everybody's just trying to make as much money as they can the more likes it gets the better it helps with the algorithm
The dwarvish armour was showing me there, is the hittite armor. With Boar Tusk and Silver And Gold coins swen on.
Oh yes please, DO make a vid of Hurin the Cursed! Especially, the brilliant tragedy of his son Turin and Nienor!
Great theory, very sound
Hurin the Cursed. Gimme the lorez
'Hurin the cursed' please
But what about Kazad-Dûm and Ergion/Hollin?
nauglamir was a catalyst...it was going to happen either way. the dwarves as a race are frumpy, whilst the elves are to aloof. too much ammo to have nothing start.
Can you make a video of Shadowfax the Lord of our horses
Mountain Dwarf, War Cheric Lv 18. Lord Lv 2. Count Lv 3. Advisor Lv 8. Labour Lv 86.
The whole Aule and Eru Illuvatar thing could easily have laid foundations for religious conflicts as well.
"I have not heard that it was the fault of the Elves."
Really Legolas? You haven't heard of how Celebrimbor was hoodwinked by a guy calling himself the Lord of Gifts leading to the ruin of Eregion and the sealing off of Moria?
This siuation was never considered by the Dwarves as one of the causes
That was Sauron's doing, not that of the elves.
@@leonardofaber5823 This is why the doors of Durin were closed, separating the two. Legolas was speaking specifically of the friendship between the Elves of Hollin and the Dwarves of Khazad-dum.
@@TJDious the Dwarves of Moria shut their door foi protect themselves from the incoming War, but never blamed nor hated the Elves because of that. They did not even know about the Rings of Power prior to receiving them from Sauron.
This comment makes no sense.
Definitely saying Owls instead Elves. Lol
Loved the vid! Thx
I have one question what If on only the halv of the one ring where molted in mount doom. Would half Saurons spirit and power get destroyd or would the outcome be the same?
Half of a ring is no ring. Sauron is a done deal.
Dwarves- They think they're better than us!
Elves- We want their Gems..but not them.
Gimli: Can I have their pretty hair?
Is that Qui Gon in the thumbnail?
What about those Gems Legolas' father wanted back?
Do Hurin the Cursed!
Hurin the cursed. Please make a video of him.
Once again a silmaril causes someone to want to possess it and kill for it. Just like the one ring. Are the silmarils actually evil artifacts?
Hurin the Cursed. For the win!
Great job again. Hurin the cursed for sure.
Yes, more on Hurin the cursed
Hurin the Cursed would be awesome
Good video
Given that the Elvish name for dwarves translates as "stunted people", I think you could sum up the rivalry in one sentence: Elves are racist.
Well _our_ name for dwarves is, well, "dwarves" which means the same.
Silmilrilian sounds good...as a movie