My only negative critique is wanting or expecting the horse to be dirty. I’ve been a horseman my whole life and always take pride in both the daily care of, and appearance of, my horses. So if a potential buyer is coming to see a horse I have offered for sale, that horse will be impeccable groomed, because I am proud of the horse and want to show the horse to the best of its ability. That called professionalism. If someone knows I’m coming to inspect a horse for purchase, and the horse is filthy when I get there, I will wonder about the daily care the horse receives. I will also think the seller is pretty lazy. Presenting a horse shining and clean for inspection is not trying to hide anything! If anything it’s displaying the level of attention and care this horse has received.
Yes, but you also have to keep in mind that he told us to arrive 30-45 minutes early. I would even recommend getting there an hour early. It also depends on who is selling the horse and what kind of barn it lives in. If the person selling it owns lots of horses that are all in a mediocre state of grooming, and the one I am coming to see looks like they just spent 2 hours making it beautiful, I will probably be more suspicious than if all their horses look that great. However, part of assessing a horse's personality, temperament, and training includes how they behave in hand and while grooming. Like he mentioned thinking it's great if the horse is out in the pasture so that he can see how easy it is to catch, the same goes for grooming. I want to spend some time grooming the horse myself to see how the horse responds. If it's already all the way groomed I will probably groom it again anyway. If they've got the horse ready for me to hop on and ride, I am going to assume rhat the horse is difficult to groom or tack up.
@maryannemorrison2699 then get used to people assuming that your horse may be difficult to groom or checking it for signs of sedation. The best thing would probably be to ask potential buyers if they want you to do that before they get there.
I adopted a mustang. I went twice to Litchfield adoption center. 2 hrs only observing. On the day of the adoption I picked my mare based on movement, demeanor in the heard, body built, demeanor towards humans. Strong bones and hooves. Shiny fur. 7 weeks later. She is the best. ❤ And yes, her teeth needs to be done. But she has strong bones and such a good character.
Excellent advise. I recently bought a 9 yo double bred Hancock mare that looked like she just needed some groceries. Her pasture was very short (dry year). I would estimate she was 250 pounds under weight. She had a couple other minor issues but I felt that I was experienced enough to work through behaviors and weight management with her. I rode her, after the owner, and she showed nothing to cause me any concerns. The 1 red flag was she stood with her head at wither height and her ears were listless. I knew she wasn't feeling good. After I got her home, I wormed her and I started putting weight on her. After 6 months, I felt she had a good body score and I started her into riding again. What I learned is that I had A LOT more horse under me than what I rode the day I bought her. She wasn't unrideable or uncontrolable. But she had A LOT of energy. Way more than I had prepared myself for. After a few months of riding, we have found some common ground. I wish I would have had a job for her to do. That would have been a big help. In the end, I still think she was a good purchase. She is kind and gentle but I would never put a novice on her. She knows how to run and loves pushing cows...or dogs, or alpacas, or rabbits, or... If I had all her information on the day I looked at her, I believe I would still have bought her. The info would have made a big difference in when I started riding her and training may have gone a bit smoother. She is a great companion and extremely intelligent. I'm convinced that she understands english.... 😊😊😊
@@yourlocalfarm No, she wasn't sedated. She was starving to death...literally. I wish I could post pics on here. You would see a huge change in her weight and posture in only 6 months.
Handcocks are super high energy. A friend had one. It would buck unpredictably. She eventually had to sell it to someone willing to work with it. Eventually, a rider got seriously hurt. Something to be aware of. Plenty of great Handcocks out there.
Thanks for all this info. I bought a horse a month ago. I didn’t have all the knowledge you imparted here. Rode him on the trail for an hour he was solid. I think I was blessed with an honest seller and horse. Thank you love your channel.
Great video, Tim! I have bought and sold a number of horses over my adult life. Been treated honestly and also been burned. My recent purchase of an Appendix QH gelding was so straightforward-he was what I wanted in a potential trail horse-and I did not get a PPE. I knew he would pass with some qualifications and I was willing to chance it. When my vet did give him an exam (post-purchase) he found a teeny warty thing on his ear that I had missed and said it might be a sarcoid. Not a big deal for me. He also indicated some potential for tendon issues in the future due to conformation. I also had noted that. Because I am almost 70 and really just trail ride and meander around the neighborhood, this is a good fit for both of us. It's important to have someone help you if you are not experienced.
I'm 70. I started 21:04 riding when I was 7. My first horse was a deadhead gelding. In high school I cowboyed off an Arab Quarter Cross Mare. Before I went into the service, I sold her to my high school Spanish teacher. In the ensuing years, life intervened , and all I did was the occasional trail ride on someone else's horse. I retired at 64 and acquired a yearling paint filly. I've managed to turn her into a passable saddle horse. For 6 years now, I have enjoyed just about every minute of time I spend caring for, training, and riding that mare. Oh, I got bucked off twice. Both times, it was my fault. She was warning me, but I wasn't listening. I am grateful to have the where with all and health to rediscover what was such a large part of my youth.
Thank you for this video! I had a bad experience buying a horse. He was awesome to test ride when I got there. Got him home and gave him a couple days to check out our place and went to saddle him for the first time and he blew up. Finally got him saddled and he bolted out from under me when I went to mount him. Called the seller back and asked if she'd ever had this problem or if there was anything special she did to tack him up. Her reply was well I already used your money to buy hay so I can't buy him back. I called her again a few days later because I ended up in the E.R. because he bolted out from under me when I tried again. I asked her if she'd drugged him, she wouldn't answer me then she wouldn't return my calls. I was out a lot of money because I couldn't resell him for what I paid for him because I wouldn't lie and falsely represent him plus I had several months of pain from separating the cartilage on a couple of ribs. I wish I had done more research before buying him, but I'd never come across someone dishonest like that and hadn't anticipated it.
So was he tacked and groomed when you got there? Or did you tack him and he was chill but then changed when you got him home? Thats awful and I'm curious what that baby went through to act like that. Did you get any medical records or vet notes that he would go ape when getting checked out? O rwas it just he was ok with everything but was triggered when he saw tack lol
Our 1st pony unfortunately was sedated when we acquired him ,the 3 of us girls rode him at the previous owners, but after we got him home I got 1st ride on him I was having the time of my life ,but family was freaking out as he was a bucking bronco. He was best pony we had after dad gentle him as he taught us to always expect the unexpected every ride. He taught us every dirty trick he could come up with and how to work through them. Twinkle a half Tennessee Walker half Shetland Pony. Hot weather he was a prance Tennessee Walker with short legs, in cold weather he was a short furball.
Shetland ponies! My grandpa bought me a 2 year old green broke Shetland Stallion. Both Thunder and I went in training together, of course he learned and then I was taught what he learned. Wow, what a smart little ornery trouble maker he was! A serious escape artist. And if you could hold your own with him, by the time he was 4 (still a stallion) and I was 8, you could do just about everything, go in any direction with horses that you wanted go!
Great information. Well done and I agree on the PPE. I have been a buyer and a seller. My budget was tight when I started so I was looking for diamonds in the rough and what I could train. Now I’m more of a seller although I also offer to lease to young riders who need a good horse but whose parents are in the low budget place I was. This is where I’ve been burned as a lessor or seller. We always hear about dishonesty among sellers. In my experience the dishonesty nowadays is often among buyers. Example: I bred & raised a nice little Connemara/AQHA gelding pony. I don’t need him so I offered him for sale. He’s dark buckskin, gentle but athletic and I’ve had him going well under saddle for 2 years. He’s 5 now. I’ve had 15 to 20 buyers want me to show him but not one could tell me what they were looking for. They’d tell me their life story about their favorite pony and when I pointed out that my horse isn’t that pony they’d be offended. Or they’ll say they want him for their young daughter and I’d warn them he’s young too. I don’t think that’s a good job for him. They’ll insist their daughter is an exceptional rider. In one case I reluctantly agreed to let her daughter try him. The mother brought an ‘instructor’ who was rude and never introduced herself to me. Both women picked my horse apart without doing anything discussed in this video. I suggested they keep looking and they got offended. So I allowed the exceptional young rider to try my horse out. She was nervous and not an experienced rider let alone exceptional. Another buyer took a lot of my time sending one video after another but never asked questions discussed here which I would expect. So I really appreciate this video not just as a lesson for buyers but as a lesson for sellers. ❤
Yes you are right. I see it all the time too when owners want to send a horse for training. They totally misrepresent what the horse is to try to get me to take it. These are usually the same people who blame buying a bad horse on the seller.
I subscribed! There are a ton of YT channels out there. So many I usually blow past them and never subscribe. Horse people are often long on opinions and short on learning. You’re different. Thanks
Well, I got a different option about some things: 1. There are horses with stomach ulcers that dont show ANY symptoms or sensitivity if you touch them (I got one in the stable). Than there are horses that just dont like being touched and therefore moving their ear, not because of ulcers. Same goes for rubbing the horse's face. Some horses just dont like being rubbed and touched by strangers. And I think everyone can relate. Maybe the Person touching and rubbing the horse without it's consent is disrepectful - and not the horse telling them about it. 2. Having navicular syndrome/podotrochlosis means every movement is causing further damage to the internal structures - wether the horse shows pain (jet) or not. It wont improve but only get worse. Therefore horses like that should not be ridden/worked. 3. There is no proven connection between single long or twisted hairs and parasites. The biggest Red flag was there all the time but not addressed: The horse's generell facial expression. One can see in Lucy's face that she is in pain. Wrinkles above the eyes, triangular eyes, with a worried look, wrinkles around the nostrils due to lift up nostrils, firm chin, ears slightly floppy, holes above the eyes. That is a typical pain face. The body also shows symptoms of (chronic) pain: stiff neck with a rather flat topline, atrophy of the musculus trapezius, hind legs pressed together etc. And always check how they are breathing. Are the muscles of the lower abdomen involved in pressing air actively out of the lungs? Even if it is just slightly, the horse will most likely have a chronic desease of the respiratory system. 7 out of 10 horses are sick with Asthma. If you know the desease and if you know what and where to look for, you can see it most of the times. Coughing and heaves occurs way later. Nevertheless a good introduction for beginners.
I am certainly not an expert or very experienced, but I agree with you about Lucy's face expressions. But I think maybe she would normally be getting meds for her navicular pain, but maybe Tim did not give it to her so that, for this demonstration, she would be in pain and he would able to show what that looks like. It seems to me that he cares a lot about Lucy, and I suspect she is not being used for riding. She looks in great shape other than the foot problem. You cannot show a person a defect if the horse doesn't have one.
I agree on the eyes, I can tell right away how they're feeling. Stomach ulcers cause a loss of appetite. You are probably looking at a slimmer horse. Hard to tell about the left front in the short clip because the one sock was distracting, you generally don't see that. That caught my eye and I thought that was the sore foot. I was clear something was abnormal in the front though. I had three horses vetted first, the last two were my foals. I'd hate to buy now, there are too many dishonest people today
Excellent ! When I bought my horse I was a novice and had my instructor help me, because that is what all of the websites recommended (go with instructor). Well my horse was already saddled and probably had been ridden by the time I got there. I love my horse but he definitely ended up having some issues that were masked with him having already been saddled and ridden. You can’t trust anyone but yourself when making these purchases so this is excellent advice .
One test I always perform is to grab each foreleg by the fetlock joint and pull the leg forward and slightly upwards. This helps diagnose shoulder problems that might otherwise not be evident.
I bought a 5 year old mare after spending about 4 hours with her. I rode her all around their 20 acres and in the arena without ANY issues. I got her home and on my first ride I discovered she was super spooky of everything! A cat, a tree branch moving, and almost dumped by jumping sideways from the cat. So then I decided to take her to some trails with my friend and her horse thinking she would settle down with a buddy horse. Nope! She would not budge 50 feet from the horse trailer. She was used to her property but not the real world. I sold her to a family with kids for arena riding because she was super sweet and did great.
Very informative video Tim. I do have an 18 year old Morgan that has laminitis. He is a rescue and is doing great. He's been on a low sugar diet from the moment he came into my world and is on a dry pen along with my 2 mares. I have a great farrier who understands this condition is using glue on shoes on his front hooves. He's pain free and living his best life. If I were to go to an auction I know what to look for and this video is a wealth of additional information.I will say that doing research and learning about not only the hoof but every aspect of the horse and their behavior will save their lives. Colic comes to mind. Calling a veterinarian and waiting for them to arrive may mean the difference between life or death. We are always learning and I truly your content.
Im picking up with this horse how it stands base narrow with the hinds (fetlocks almost touching), extremely stiff in the hind end when you took it for a walk/turn around. I suspect due to the age of the horse arthritis and or has been compensating with the hind end due to the pain in the left fore. The expression and aura of this horse is not one of being overly comfortable (pain wise) and or content with life). A red flag for me would be a raised digital pulse, could be sub clinical laminitis or something more serious. A high temperature, a high rate heartrate for no apparent reason. Eye problems, head shy, girthing problems. Keep in mind scoping for ulcers does not reach the hindgut so even though no ulcers were detected in the foregut doesnt mean the horse is ulcer free.
my horse had the same symptoms unfortunately! it was from mental tension which let to a bad compensatory posture. hind legs stood under, prominent hamstrings and lateral abdominal muscles, dropped hollow back which would have led to kissing spines if ridden, tight lower neck.. now that ive noticed these things i cant unsee them in other horses! often in combination with ulcers.. doesnt mean the horse isnt looked after well, but until it leads to big problems most vets wont do anything about it even when periodically lame
Mr. Anderson, I have been around horses my entire life. I love your video. What you are stating is easy to understand and makes perfect sense. I love your horse sense!
Great Info. But my take away would be to hire you to assess the horse! 😊 I’ve been lucky - bought one after leasing for 6 months so knew just what I was getting. My current horse I bought with my trainer in tow. Big help!
When I was looking for a horse (had tested 5 before in other stables) , I told the sellers to put saddle and bridle off the horse and put a halter on and bring him into the riding hall. There I let him go in all gaits and watched the movement and also his reaction on my requests. (Free, not lunging) Then I checked with some touches if the back or the ulcer triggerpoint show reaction. And if he is able to lift his belly and spine. Also if the hooves can be picked up and the joints are not sensitive. I saw some tension in general and a tail that was tight pressed on the body. Riding test was not what you wish, he was in a hurry, which comes from beeing unsecure and not in balance. Anyway, he was what I was looking for, not a perfect horse, but one that can improve, when you work with him. I bought him and it was the right descision.
Mr. A, you are a treasure! I have learned so much today, but I have done pretty well with years of gut instinct where gaited horses are concerned, the vet who didn't know how to flex test such a horse and lied to cover herself, etc. But the internal cues were totally new to me. Thank you & God bless!
Thanks for posting this Tim and nice job overall. For you and your subscribers to consider that you consider RED flags, 1) scars in the lower front of back leg - I believe the key here is to lift the skin tissue and feel with an A and B comparison so you are not passing on just normal scar tissue without ligament injury. Skin should move freely. You can even do this day of injury, btw to determine if a cut has gone to ligament. 2) The white hair in the withers could easily have been from a poorly fitting saddle that should never have been on the horse in the first place, versus a horse that is hard to fit. I see way more of that versus the latter where the horse is hard to fit. Again for your consideration, keep up the great videos.
I agree with everything in this video! Being honest is all we can ask from any buyer/seller. I’d also note that Lucy’s nose flair indicates she’s hurting.
This is fascinating. I’ve never heard anyone discuss these issues to look for. Now, since you are a retired police officer, can you tell us how to tell if a person is lying? 😀
@@4hoofs4ever007he said he “can” but didn’t say he “will”. Having teachers as both parents, I remember being corrected many times about which to use for the response wanted. 😉
Fantastic video! I’m very experienced but I still learned a few great tricks to look for as indicators of red flags! I’d love to see an even more in-depth video strictly about different lamness indicators or other health concerns
Absolutely cannot believe how much I learned from this video and I am a relatively experienced horse lady. My friend turned me on to you and I'm so glad that she did. Talk about superb information oh my goodness!😊
One thing you didn't mention was teeth, making sure that the age the front teeth show match what the owner is saying. I bought my mare and she was supposed to be 12, according to the vet after doing her teeth she was in her 20's. That being said she is worth her weight in gold she is exactly the horse I needed and I wouldn't change a thing
My guess as to him not mentioning teeth is because that is such a super BASIC item, EVERYONE should know this, it's a giant DUH! If you need to be reminded or told to check teeth you ought not be out horse shopping, you aren't ready, you need more experience and instinctual knowledge, lease for now
Thank you for sharing this information, it is very helpful. I’ve always wanted my own horse, but never had the chance to acquire one, due to boarding issues and wanting a horse I could actually have close by me, plus having my own land, etc., but other life issues became more apparent then. Now I’m 74, still loving horses, but health issues prevails now….👍🙏🏼❤️🖖
I normally vet check my horses. Regretfully, I didn't vet check an OTTB with a torn hamstring from last race 1 week before I saw her. She had top bloodlines, super athletic and gorgeous. She was owned by a vet. I asked what other injuries and medical problems and told she didnt have any. Since she was owned by a vet and I spoke with the owner vet by phone I didnt do a vet check and bought her. Well, she was lame off and on, her movement was unique but eye catching gorgeous. 8 mos after I bought her found out she had had wobbler surgery and then raced as a 3yr old (actually age 2.5 yr) tearing her hamstring. This surgery was never disclosed. I met briefly with the vet owner and was told she would be fine as a dressage horse. I bought her as a potential event horse. However, I found out she was too weak in the hind end for jumping and dressage. But she was an incredible trail horse. So I kept her and gave up eventing and dressage. I didnt want her to wind up for slaughter. We were together 21 yrs. Last year she passed 23 yrs old.
Great video! Great advice. I have bought several horses and got a vet check every time. The one time it really paid off was finding an eye problem. He checked the horse in the dark hall of a barn. When he finished he said, "Lead him outside and have him face the sun." When I did, one of the horse's eyes partially closed. Upon examination he found a scratch which the owner may or may not have known about. He said it may not advance beyond where it is now or he could lose sight in that eye. That was a "hard no" for me.
I know a few people who have partially blind and completely blind horses. It's only a handicap if you make it an issue. Understanding that makes all the difference. All the people I know who ride visually impaired horses don't see it as a problem esp if their horses trust them.
I'd like to thank you for posting this video. What a breath of fresh air. Over the years I have bought, sold a number of horses but none for a few years now. Still have my old qh mare at 21 and paint gelding @ 23. Your video was a wonderful reminder of all one should watch for when buying a horse. Made me feel like going out and looking at a few, but those days are done for me. Great memories🙂🐎 thought 😊😊😊
My GF bought a Paso Fino a few years ago after her horse died. Cute horse, brown and white, was gated. She rode him around the arena and tried a bunch of stuff with him and decided to buy him. We brought him home. She was out walking him a couple days later and some kids were ther and she let them pet him. Apparently he turned around and bit her on the shoulder, I wasn't there, and he started acting up. She returned the horse shortly after. Not going to deal with behavior issues like that. I've only bought one horse and still have him. He does have laminitis that developed a couple years ago but he's better now but we still deal with it. He doesn't get to run around free on grass. Still ride him. He's 24 now and got him in 2011 at 12yo. For $900 not a bad deal in the long run. He is an "Easy keeper".
As a farrier of 20 odd years , knowing how to mouth a horse helps in aging one. A red flag to me is if the owners response to “ how old is your horse?” and what I find differs too much , ( unless they have papers) I’ll walk away.
Fairly new to the channel and loving your advice and content!! Thank you for sharing with us! I bought a rode down, aced horse as a teenager and learned really quick (about 4 days and a concussion) that he wasn’t for me. Luckily he was well trained and good at his job and we (honestly) sold him to someone who didn’t mind a difficult, more unpredictable horse. Well, I guess he wasn’t well trained if he acted like that but he did well in the arena while working just not out of it! 😂
Good point. You should try a horse doing everything you plan to do with that horse (if it is supposed to already know how). I've seen horses that were perfect in the arena and basket cases on the trail. (Older rope horses that only ever went from the trailer to the roping pen and back.) And others that were perfect on trail, but shook with fear in an arena. (Reining prospect pushed too hard too young.) Also, if the seller won't ride the horse and no one else at that barn is willing to get on it, that's a big red flag. If you aren't experienced, find someone who is to go with you!
Thanks, great info. I've never vet checked any of my horses though I did look at the vet records on one. I was more lucky than skilled, since they ended up sound. I also knew some horses for a while prior to purchase and had issues declared by owners to allow me to decide if I could live with it. Never spent a huge amount of money, either, and that is also a factor.
I am a new #1 fan of Tim. I am new to the horse world and really appreciate all the education and especially honest people like yourself. Thank you for your wealth of information. ❤️
I have been offerd to take over a 18yrs old mare with crooked back..and offers to buy it later...really sweet horse but when i now have been listening to your video with red flaggs..so now im not going to even so see this horse..red flaggs...so thank you for posting your videos..really helpfull
Great video. Always good to have things pointed out like the navicular behavior which I'm not familiar with. I have been lucky to always have had good purchases. I always had good representation of the horses I got. If anything, they ended up being better than expected with some training. But it's always good to watch this kind of videos to stay alert. I've had some people telling me about their horses being different after a few days from being drugged tho.
Great video Tim and great advice. It is easy to be taken advantage of for a beginner if you don't do your homework first. Don't' be afraid to ask questions and don't assume you are always getting truthful answers. Please take Tom's advice, it may save you some grief and heartache later on.
I think this is the most important and helpful video a saw ever. I hope any horse owner himself go check his horse after this video if there maybe a red flag he missed by the daily routines. Thanks alot of this awesome informative video from Bavaria!
Very astute! Great observations. Seldom is what you see what you're going to get. A horse will be different in unfamiliar surroundings and will try their boundaries with a new owner as well. They may or may not have been sedated. I really appreciate your categories of yes, no, maybe. It also depends upon your personal riding goals and how this horse is going to match up with them. A pleasure horse can be quite suitable for light riding but out of the running for more athletic ambitions.
I have 5 rescue geldings. They all have some issues because they are older/senior geldings that nobody else wants. Three of them I can ride and 2 are retired. I'm in my 50s and don't ride very often. Thank you for this video. I taught me some things to check out if I ever actually buy a horse, again.
My first horse was a rescue from a kill pen. I was totally green and while I did not expect to ride him, I was not prepared for his attitude once he was healthy. He was overused to the point of emaciation shortly before I got him and while the rescuer meant well, she had no business letting me adopt him. He’s getting dangerous and now I will probably end up putting him down as his physical issues put him in more pain than can be medicated, some blindness and now EPM. What a lesson! My second rescue was from a well respected and known organization and since I knew her background she is a much better fit for me. Also learned after the first one to bring a trusted trainer to evaluate her. Thanks for all the good insight!
If I were going to buy a horse, I would not go without you. I would know if I had a good horse. You talked about problems the new buyer would not be aware of.👍
Glad I found this video! A red flag which I encountered is cataracts with one eye much worse than the other. This was found during the PPE and along with several other problems, including sarcoids and slight lameness. Also the horse refused to open its mouth. I had travelled quite a distance and had high hopes but it was not meant to be. Question: Without a PPE how would the cataracts have been detected?
When Was 14yrs (in the 70s) I bought my second pony without any adult supervision. He was a welsh-arab X and beautiful, had been turned out for 18 months but was easy to ride when I tried him out. However within 2 weeks of purchase behaviour problems appeared and got worse as he as he got fitter. In fact he was quite dangerous; would run alongside fences or trees trying to scrape me off, buck under branches and he had an awful buck. I eventually sold him and fully declared his behaviours. Lots of lessons in that experience but it didn't put me off horses and I was wiser for my children when they became interested in riding.
Thx for this info!! GREAT STUFF. I guess I've been lucky in the past, I never got a "bad" horse, health nor behavior problems🤞🏻 In the future, I'll follow your guidelines Thank you ! 💕🥕🐎
Several of the flags you mentioned would have brought questions to mind if I had watched this video before I purchased my current horse. Thank you for sharing this.
This is a fantastic video. I wish I had seen it before I bought my mare. I especially appreciate how it points out the signs of drugging and how to spot navicular without X-rays.
I've bought several horses sight-unseen. I know, not a good way to buy, but when they're several states away, sometimes that's just how it goes. My rule: there will be something wrong: teeth, feet, training, etc. They arrive, we let them settle down for a day or two and then do a thorough inspection and make whatever appointments need to be made (farrier, dentist, etc.). Sometimes we'll have appointments set up in advance if the owner was honest about any issues. So far, we haven't gotten burned, but I know some day we probably will. Anyhow, excellent video!
Wish I would have seen this great video years ago! I bought a horse that had would've been a hard "no" after watching this. And he was definitely a hard "NO!" after I already had bought him with terrible issues.
My horse got to be 34 and I thought I knew it all BUT learned something😅 looking into buying a new horse ( Percheron) will use your advice from this video
Good points (especially about vets finding issues.) I would add that by looking at the hollows above the eyes you can tell if it is an older horse. That was the first thing I noticed about Lucy. The other thing about the teeth is that the owner may have had them done but not have a competent equine dentist. Most vets are not extensively trained in this area and I have had lousy jobs done at reputable vet schools as well.
Sometimes it’s easy. I’ve had horses since I was 21. And rode for years before I had my own horse. A young friend of mine stopped by and asked if I’d go look at a horse with her. And the guy who had the horse was close to my house. When we got there the horses head was shaking constantly the entire time we were there, kinda like a neurological shake. As if his head we a piñata on a string and someone were shaking the string from above. She asked me what I thought in front of the guy, I told her I wouldn’t get the horse. I didn’t know what that was but I wouldn’t want it to be my problem. She didn’t get the horse, and the guy hated me from then on.
Excellent advice. I really love the way you teach. I look forward to watching more videos and I don't even own a horse. If I did I would certainly come to you.
This is a very helpful video for screening whether you want to take the next step with a horse or walk away. Depending on what you want to do with it, you should probably also do flexions yourself and/or also have a vet exam. If you are paying good money for a horse that is going to do a demanding job like competing in jumping, eventing, dressage or reining for example, it would be foolish not to have a vet exam. The challenge is then how to interpret the results. As Tim says, the vet will always find something. But is it going to get in the way of the intended use is the key question. I have purchased 4 horses for eventing and I regret that I didn't pull blood to test for sedation for the first one. I was able to ride her, but she really was too hot for my riding ability and it was always a struggle. I learned after that to always pull blood when buying a performance horse I wanted to show. I also have learned the importance of good feet for my discipline. I purchased a horse who while sound at age 4 and suitable in all other ways, had a hoof that the vet said could be a problem. He didn't like the angles and suggested changing them. This horse is lovely to ride but as she got older, her feet became a real liability. She is often unsound. The vet who did the exam is very experienced and at a very well known vet hospital in California. It was on me to interpret the results and decide whether to buy her. This is how it works, so even with a vet exam, there are no guarantees. The good news if that if you are buying a horse for trail riding, soundness isn't as critical as it is for a competition horse in jumping disciplines.
At some point doe a vet exam not make financial sense as a percentage of the purchase price. A full vet check with X-rays will usually run $400 to $500 depending on the number of X-rays. So what percentage of the purchase price would you spend on a vet check? 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%?
@@timandersonhorsetraining at exams run a lot more expensive than that in parts of the Midwest. More than twice that amount in Ohio. That cuts into your cache of “buy money” for sure.
Thanks. This was fascinating for me a beginning rider wanting to buy a horse someday. (Of course I would get a veteran horse owner to recommend one and go look at it.)
A horse thst is nervous in cross ties I saddle in the arena, work him and get him good and tired the tie to my high line until they relax. That routine is usually doesn't take long.
Bought my first horse at age 58, got a PPE and thought all was fine. Rode him, and all went well. Got him home and he was gurthy and spooked at everything. Couldn’t hand walk him without him pulling and bolting. I felt unsafe around him. He was irritable and dangerous to be around. Then did blood tests and found muscle enzymes very high. He was severely deficient in vitamin E and diagnosed with PSSM, which can be managed with diet, but is incurable. Being a novice rider, I sold him back to a previous owner, and told her he needs a more advanced rider. Previous owners said he was beginner friendly and you could put your grandma and kids on him! Not the case at all. The PPE was worthless with this horse, didn’t know he had anything wrong until we got him home. Save your money on PPE’s. Just get blood tests if you want to confirm nothing is wrong with the horse…
Such a shame there are so many dishonest people selling horses knowingly with issues as if karma isn’t real (well it is). We were sold a horse with no cartilage in it’s fetlock for my daughter it was lame in two weeks and the trainer collected commission on the sale! Anyone selling a horse like that to a child/junior deserves criminal recourse IMO. The part I disagree with in this video is the vet check because if it’s a sport horse DEFINITELY get a vet check. Including X-rays. This type of overview would not be enough info for a sport horse! I also think a clean horse is expected in our discipline. Lucy you are adorable. ❤
One Saturday I checked out three horses. The ads or their owners said their horse was 16 hands. The second 16 hand horse I looked at that day was obviously taller than the first 16 hand horse I had seen. I drove to the third horse and she was taller than the previous two horses, even tho she too, was said to be 16 hands. I ended up buying her, and when I put a stick to her I found she was 15.3. Since then I have noticed that a very high percent of horses advertised for sale are said to be 16 hands.
I’m going to go look at a yearling next month. I’ve seen videos and photos of the horse. Looked up the registry. The breed is a gypsy. What would a vet do differently. A basic vet check is walk, trot both directions. Pull on the tail to look for EPM, correct? Flexion test. Take a history from the owner. Get a set of x-rays, for what reason? What about eyes? Should a skin scrap test done on the feathers, looking for mites? Anything else come to mind, that I should look for? It has all the age appropriate skills.
Not being sure enough about all the signs you mentioned years ago when purchasing a horse was allowed to take them home for a week that changed my mind on a couple but agree about vet we have no idea which half of the class they graduated nor necessarily the animal they were really specialized when you have debt to pay you go to the busy clinic Thank you thank you
Hi Tim! Back in the early '90's, we were looking for a barrel horse that was 250 miles away. The owner sent us a VHS video of the mare. 🚩1st-owner was kind of pushy and appeared to be desperate to sell the mare. 🚩2nd-owner included a photo of the mares AQHA papers. We didn't plan on breeding her, but she was bred nice. The mare was 7 years old and this owner was #5! Scary! 🚩#3-the last part of the video showed the mare unsaddled. She was so sway back it was sad. We broke out laughing. Not about the horse, but because the seller was trying to sell this mare as solid and for the amount of money she was asking! Needless to say, we passed and sent the tape back to the owner. A few weeks later, she called me offering the mare at a discount. I told the owner she needed to take the mare to the Vet for radiographs. She needed to find out if the mare was in pain and should be euthanized. Thanks for this video. Great info!
Thanks for your videos I was raised with horses till I was around 8 & now 35 & I have a 4 year old Icelandic I’m beginning to work with her & so far I discovered she is disrespectful lol…your videos are helping me figure her out
Our vet ask what you will be doing with the horse before or the check. He will tell you what e found but adds ,if the horse is serviceably sound. He is stricter on a performance horse than a sometimes trail horse. The last horse I bought, I did not do a vet check , but took a very knowledgeable person with me to look at her.
Lucy shook her head 3x as you touched her left top of shoulder, maybe related to hoof pain or nerve related or nothing. Js Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
Great video. If you get a vet check you need to be very honest with the vet what you are going to do with the horse and what your experience level is (important for behavioural requirements as well) because no horse is going to be perfect as you say. There's such thing as functionally sound or fit for purpose. You can have a horse with issues, but they may still advise it is likely to be alright. (ie big difference between the soundness and confirmation requirements of a high level jumper vs a horse that gets taken out on weekends for a short beginner plod around.)
We bought a horse that we were told had ulcers and three vets checks from the previous owner confirmed it. Fast forward several months and turned out she was pregnant and it wasn’t ulcers. 🤷🏽♂️. I was wish I knew back then what to look for with issues with the stifles because she had an old injury we were unaware of the made loping an issue. Thanks for all your information. Only 5 years into horses and still building knowledge. 👍
Cribbing! I adopted a 17 yr old rescue OTTB a few months ago. It was not disclosed that he cribbed. What a nightmare this has been. He is just the sweetest horse but no one has any experience. Lots of suggestions have been given each with limited merit. Cribbing collar, muzzle, medications, having a buddy, smacking his nose ...
Cribbing releases endorphins into their brains, kind of like cocaine. Hitting a horse that cribs will not affect the behavior in the least, and it is cruel. I’ve had a bad cribber . The best thing you can do is fit him with a cribbing collar, especially when he is in a stall to minimize damage to your stall areas. Cribbing is also addictive to horses around the cribbing horse. Sometimes, but not always, the behavior can spread. Once you’ve got a cribber, you’re always going to have a cribber.
A high percentage of OTTB's have ulcers (stress from racing and trailering), and cribbing is their way of trying to relieve the pain. Either get a vet to check for that, or just assume that's what he has, and treat accordingly.
I learned a hard lesson. I traveled to another state and didn't ask the right questions. The horse was already tied and saddled, calm as can be. They rode her in the round pen first, no issues for all gaits but she was reluctant to move. I wanted a slower horse so I thought great! Only after I had signed and handed over the check was I told she'd never been stalled only turned out. Got her to my barn, she was insane in a stall. I couldn't groom her much less anything else without stressing us both out. She started to buck gait transitions. Spooked at everything. I have never seen the super calm behavior from her, even after settling in, that I saw in that first meeting. I have no doubt they gave her something. I did a ppe but no drug test. Very hard and expensive lesson learned.
It didn’t happen to me but it happened to a friend who went to Canada to pick up an eventing horse. That horse almost killed her before my eyes! In the middle of a jumping course, he reared, turned on his heels and made for the barn! He was not dependable. She said he was fine when she went to see him. I bought a retired thoroughbred who we nicknamed Big Dog because of his sweet and gentle personality. And, he was healthy and sound. Loved by his first owners, a private couple, and me! I used to rehab horses off the track so I knew what to expect but he surprised me with no scars, no mental issues and no serious physical issues. He just didn’t want to race anymore and his owners respected him enough to find a good home for him.
At 21:04 right as you place your hand flat on the wither area , if i look at the tip of your thumb i see a line that extends forward in the contour of that area. It appears like a ripple in the tissue. I ask about this because i see it on one of my geldings. He is a quite round easy keeper so its not a weight loss issue. I have always worried that it was muscle atrophy. Your thought woukd be appreciated. Great informative video.
Oh boy! Where do I begin? Good stuff in this video, thank you. And yes, we’ve seen the good, the bad and the ugly and we’ve unfortunately bought a couple of the bad ones. Our first horse was a gray guy but, unfortunately, he was sick when he was sold to us and the seller took full advantage of us bringing green and not knowing what to look for. But to make matters worse, when our farrier pointed out that the horse may have laminitis, we hired one of the best known vets in the area and he came out and said the horse was healthy. Fast forward two to three months, the poor horse died! Turns out the second vet (a young vet coming up in the area) confirmed that the lumps and lethargy Id noticed means he suffered from Cushing’s disease. We held nothing back and spent and spent but he died with his head on my arms. The second bad experience was a horse that I motored had a hard time turning right. I was reassured time and again she was Ok by seller, trainer and vet. I insisted to deaf ears and my wife bought her. Despite all our efforts, while working her she launched my wife shattering her left leg which is now rebuilt with titanium rods. Everything you taught here would have helped us avoid those issues along with a good those of trusting our own observations just like you said!
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My only negative critique is wanting or expecting the horse to be dirty. I’ve been a horseman my whole life and always take pride in both the daily care of, and appearance of, my horses. So if a potential buyer is coming to see a horse I have offered for sale, that horse will be impeccable groomed, because I am proud of the horse and want to show the horse to the best of its ability. That called professionalism. If someone knows I’m coming to inspect a horse for purchase, and the horse is filthy when I get there, I will wonder about the daily care the horse receives. I will also think the seller is pretty lazy. Presenting a horse shining and clean for inspection is not trying to hide anything! If anything it’s displaying the level of attention and care this horse has received.
I agree!
I used to do equine massage. Dirt spots on the horse frequently indicates where they are sore and have been rubbing.
Yes, but you also have to keep in mind that he told us to arrive 30-45 minutes early. I would even recommend getting there an hour early. It also depends on who is selling the horse and what kind of barn it lives in. If the person selling it owns lots of horses that are all in a mediocre state of grooming, and the one I am coming to see looks like they just spent 2 hours making it beautiful, I will probably be more suspicious than if all their horses look that great.
However, part of assessing a horse's personality, temperament, and training includes how they behave in hand and while grooming. Like he mentioned thinking it's great if the horse is out in the pasture so that he can see how easy it is to catch, the same goes for grooming. I want to spend some time grooming the horse myself to see how the horse responds. If it's already all the way groomed I will probably groom it again anyway. If they've got the horse ready for me to hop on and ride, I am going to assume rhat the horse is difficult to groom or tack up.
Yes i agree. I will never show a horse off to someone not groomed. Its a matter of pride.
@maryannemorrison2699 then get used to people assuming that your horse may be difficult to groom or checking it for signs of sedation. The best thing would probably be to ask potential buyers if they want you to do that before they get there.
I adopted a mustang.
I went twice to Litchfield adoption center.
2 hrs only observing.
On the day of the adoption I picked my mare based on movement, demeanor in the heard, body built, demeanor towards humans.
Strong bones and hooves. Shiny fur.
7 weeks later.
She is the best. ❤
And yes, her teeth needs to be done. But she has strong bones and such a good character.
Excellent advise.
I recently bought a 9 yo double bred Hancock mare that looked like she just needed some groceries. Her pasture was very short (dry year). I would estimate she was 250 pounds under weight. She had a couple other minor issues but I felt that I was experienced enough to work through behaviors and weight management with her. I rode her, after the owner, and she showed nothing to cause me any concerns. The 1 red flag was she stood with her head at wither height and her ears were listless. I knew she wasn't feeling good.
After I got her home, I wormed her and I started putting weight on her. After 6 months, I felt she had a good body score and I started her into riding again.
What I learned is that I had A LOT more horse under me than what I rode the day I bought her. She wasn't unrideable or uncontrolable. But she had A LOT of energy. Way more than I had prepared myself for.
After a few months of riding, we have found some common ground. I wish I would have had a job for her to do. That would have been a big help.
In the end, I still think she was a good purchase. She is kind and gentle but I would never put a novice on her. She knows how to run and loves pushing cows...or dogs, or alpacas, or rabbits, or...
If I had all her information on the day I looked at her, I believe I would still have bought her. The info would have made a big difference in when I started riding her and training may have gone a bit smoother. She is a great companion and extremely intelligent. I'm convinced that she understands english....
😊😊😊
She was sedated when the you test ride her
@@yourlocalfarm
No, she wasn't sedated. She was starving to death...literally. I wish I could post pics on here. You would see a huge change in her weight and posture in only 6 months.
Handcocks are super high energy. A friend had one. It would buck unpredictably. She eventually had to sell it to someone willing to work with it. Eventually, a rider got seriously hurt. Something to be aware of. Plenty of great Handcocks out there.
@@eliara-thevoice8430
Yup...they definitely need to have a full-time job.
You are 'convinced she understands English' ... by whom? It is a HORSE animal. Horses do not understand or speak English...
Thanks for all this info. I bought a horse a month ago. I didn’t have all the knowledge you imparted here. Rode him on the trail for an hour he was solid. I think I was blessed with an honest seller and horse.
Thank you love your channel.
Great video, Tim! I have bought and sold a number of horses over my adult life. Been treated honestly and also been burned. My recent purchase of an Appendix QH gelding was so straightforward-he was what I wanted in a potential trail horse-and I did not get a PPE. I knew he would pass with some qualifications and I was willing to chance it. When my vet did give him an exam (post-purchase) he found a teeny warty thing on his ear that I had missed and said it might be a sarcoid. Not a big deal for me. He also indicated some potential for tendon issues in the future due to conformation. I also had noted that. Because I am almost 70 and really just trail ride and meander around the neighborhood, this is a good fit for both of us. It's important to have someone help you if you are not experienced.
For a Sarcoid. Put some Crest toothpaste on it daily and it will be gone in a month.
Congratulations on your horse! I am 66, and it is my dream as well!
Ppl
I'm 70. I started 21:04 riding when I was 7. My first horse was a deadhead gelding. In high school I cowboyed off an Arab Quarter Cross Mare. Before I went into the service, I sold her to my high school Spanish teacher. In the ensuing years, life intervened , and all I did was the occasional trail ride on someone else's horse. I retired at 64 and acquired a yearling paint filly. I've managed to turn her into a passable saddle horse. For 6 years now, I have enjoyed just about every minute of time I spend caring for, training, and riding that mare. Oh, I got bucked off twice. Both times, it was my fault. She was warning me, but I wasn't listening. I am grateful to have the where with all and health to rediscover what was such a large part of my youth.
Thank you for this video! I had a bad experience buying a horse. He was awesome to test ride when I got there. Got him home and gave him a couple days to check out our place and went to saddle him for the first time and he blew up. Finally got him saddled and he bolted out from under me when I went to mount him. Called the seller back and asked if she'd ever had this problem or if there was anything special she did to tack him up. Her reply was well I already used your money to buy hay so I can't buy him back. I called her again a few days later because I ended up in the E.R. because he bolted out from under me when I tried again. I asked her if she'd drugged him, she wouldn't answer me then she wouldn't return my calls. I was out a lot of money because I couldn't resell him for what I paid for him because I wouldn't lie and falsely represent him plus I had several months of pain from separating the cartilage on a couple of ribs. I wish I had done more research before buying him, but I'd never come across someone dishonest like that and hadn't anticipated it.
Horse hustlers are horrible
I have been lied to by almost all the horse owners I have bought from.
So was he tacked and groomed when you got there? Or did you tack him and he was chill but then changed when you got him home? Thats awful and I'm curious what that baby went through to act like that. Did you get any medical records or vet notes that he would go ape when getting checked out? O rwas it just he was ok with everything but was triggered when he saw tack lol
please do a contract when buying a horse, outlining the claims of the seller for the horse you are buying.. you could sue them for fraud
Our 1st pony unfortunately was sedated when we acquired him ,the 3 of us girls rode him at the previous owners, but after we got him home I got 1st ride on him I was having the time of my life ,but family was freaking out as he was a bucking bronco. He was best pony we had after dad gentle him as he taught us to always expect the unexpected every ride. He taught us every dirty trick he could come up with and how to work through them. Twinkle a half Tennessee Walker half Shetland Pony. Hot weather he was a prance Tennessee Walker with short legs, in cold weather he was a short furball.
Shetland ponies! My grandpa bought me a 2 year old green broke Shetland Stallion. Both Thunder and I went in training together, of course he learned and then I was taught what he learned. Wow, what a smart little ornery trouble maker he was! A serious escape artist. And if you could hold your own with him, by the time he was 4 (still a stallion) and I was 8, you could do just about everything, go in any direction with horses that you wanted go!
Great information. Well done and I agree on the PPE.
I have been a buyer and a seller. My budget was tight when I started so I was looking for diamonds in the rough and what I could train. Now I’m more of a seller although I also offer to lease to young riders who need a good horse but whose parents are in the low budget place I was. This is where I’ve been burned as a lessor or seller. We always hear about dishonesty among sellers. In my experience the dishonesty nowadays is often among buyers.
Example: I bred & raised a nice little Connemara/AQHA gelding pony. I don’t need him so I offered him for sale. He’s dark buckskin, gentle but athletic and I’ve had him going well under saddle for 2 years. He’s 5 now. I’ve had 15 to 20 buyers want me to show him but not one could tell me what they were looking for. They’d tell me their life story about their favorite pony and when I pointed out that my horse isn’t that pony they’d be offended. Or they’ll say they want him for their young daughter and I’d warn them he’s young too. I don’t think that’s a good job for him. They’ll insist their daughter is an exceptional rider. In one case I reluctantly agreed to let her daughter try him. The mother brought an ‘instructor’ who was rude and never introduced herself to me. Both women picked my horse apart without doing anything discussed in this video. I suggested they keep looking and they got offended. So I allowed the exceptional young rider to try my horse out. She was nervous and not an experienced rider let alone exceptional.
Another buyer took a lot of my time sending one video after another but never asked questions discussed here which I would expect.
So I really appreciate this video not just as a lesson for buyers but as a lesson for sellers. ❤
Yes you are right. I see it all the time too when owners want to send a horse for training. They totally misrepresent what the horse is to try to get me to take it. These are usually the same people who blame buying a bad horse on the seller.
I subscribed! There are a ton of YT channels out there. So many I usually blow past them and never subscribe. Horse people are often long on opinions and short on learning. You’re different. Thanks
@@michellejansen6165 thank you.
Well, I got a different option about some things:
1. There are horses with stomach ulcers that dont show ANY symptoms or sensitivity if you touch them (I got one in the stable). Than there are horses that just dont like being touched and therefore moving their ear, not because of ulcers.
Same goes for rubbing the horse's face.
Some horses just dont like being rubbed and touched by strangers. And I think everyone can relate. Maybe the Person touching and rubbing the horse without it's consent is disrepectful - and not the horse telling them about it.
2. Having navicular syndrome/podotrochlosis means every movement is causing further damage to the internal structures - wether the horse shows pain (jet) or not.
It wont improve but only get worse. Therefore horses like that should not be ridden/worked.
3. There is no proven connection between single long or twisted hairs and parasites.
The biggest Red flag was there all the time but not addressed: The horse's generell facial expression. One can see in Lucy's face that she is in pain. Wrinkles above the eyes, triangular eyes, with a worried look, wrinkles around the nostrils due to lift up nostrils, firm chin, ears slightly floppy, holes above the eyes. That is a typical pain face.
The body also shows symptoms of (chronic) pain: stiff neck with a rather flat topline, atrophy of the musculus trapezius, hind legs pressed together etc.
And always check how they are breathing.
Are the muscles of the lower abdomen involved in pressing air actively out of the lungs? Even if it is just slightly, the horse will most likely have a chronic desease of the respiratory system.
7 out of 10 horses are sick with Asthma.
If you know the desease and if you know what and where to look for, you can see it most of the times.
Coughing and heaves occurs way later.
Nevertheless a good introduction for beginners.
I am certainly not an expert or very experienced, but I agree with you about Lucy's face expressions. But I think maybe she would normally be getting meds for her navicular pain, but maybe Tim did not give it to her so that, for this demonstration, she would be in pain and he would able to show what that looks like. It seems to me that he cares a lot about Lucy, and I suspect she is not being used for riding. She looks in great shape other than the foot problem. You cannot show a person a defect if the horse doesn't have one.
I agree on the eyes, I can tell right away how they're feeling. Stomach ulcers cause a loss of appetite. You are probably looking at a slimmer horse. Hard to tell about the left front in the short clip because the one sock was distracting, you generally don't see that. That caught my eye and I thought that was the sore foot. I was clear something was abnormal in the front though. I had three horses vetted first, the last two were my foals. I'd hate to buy now, there are too many dishonest people today
@@frisbeefreer532 Tim did say he would be giving her Equiox
Excellent ! When I bought my horse I was a novice and had my instructor help me, because that is what all of the websites recommended (go with instructor). Well my horse was already saddled and probably had been ridden by the time I got there. I love my horse but he definitely ended up having some issues that were masked with him having already been saddled and ridden. You can’t trust anyone but yourself when making these purchases so this is excellent advice .
One test I always perform is to grab each foreleg by the fetlock joint and pull the leg forward and slightly upwards. This helps diagnose shoulder problems that might otherwise not be evident.
I bought a 5 year old mare after spending about 4 hours with her. I rode her all around their 20 acres and in the arena without ANY issues. I got her home and on my first ride I discovered she was super spooky of everything! A cat, a tree branch moving, and almost dumped by jumping sideways from the cat. So then I decided to take her to some trails with my friend and her horse thinking she would settle down with a buddy horse. Nope! She would not budge 50 feet from the horse trailer. She was used to her property but not the real world. I sold her to a family with kids for arena riding because she was super sweet and did great.
Very informative video Tim. I do have an 18 year old Morgan that has laminitis. He is a rescue and is doing great. He's been on a low sugar diet from the moment he came into my world and is on a dry pen along with my 2 mares. I have a great farrier who understands this condition is using glue on shoes on his front hooves. He's pain free and living his best life. If I were to go to an auction I know what to look for and this video is a wealth of additional information.I will say that doing research and learning about not only the hoof but every aspect of the horse and their behavior will save their lives. Colic comes to mind. Calling a veterinarian and waiting for them to arrive may mean the difference between life or death. We are always learning and I truly your content.
Im picking up with this horse how it stands base narrow with the hinds (fetlocks almost touching), extremely stiff in the hind end when you took it for a walk/turn around. I suspect due to the age of the horse arthritis and or has been compensating with the hind end due to the pain in the left fore. The expression and aura of this horse is not one of being overly comfortable (pain wise) and or content with life). A red flag for me would be a raised digital pulse, could be sub clinical laminitis or something more serious. A high temperature, a high rate heartrate for no apparent reason. Eye problems, head shy, girthing problems. Keep in mind scoping for ulcers does not reach the hindgut so even though no ulcers were detected in the foregut doesnt mean the horse is ulcer free.
my horse had the same symptoms unfortunately! it was from mental tension which let to a bad compensatory posture. hind legs stood under, prominent hamstrings and lateral abdominal muscles, dropped hollow back which would have led to kissing spines if ridden, tight lower neck.. now that ive noticed these things i cant unsee them in other horses! often in combination with ulcers.. doesnt mean the horse isnt looked after well, but until it leads to big problems most vets wont do anything about it even when periodically lame
Mr. Anderson, I have been around horses my entire life. I love your video. What you are stating is easy to understand and makes perfect sense. I love your horse sense!
Excellent information, Tim. Very well explained. 😍
Great Info. But my take away would be to hire you to assess the horse! 😊
I’ve been lucky - bought one after leasing for 6 months so knew just what I was getting. My current horse I bought with my trainer in tow. Big help!
When I was looking for a horse (had tested 5 before in other stables) , I told the sellers to put saddle and bridle off the horse and put a halter on and bring him into the riding hall. There I let him go in all gaits and watched the movement and also his reaction on my requests. (Free, not lunging) Then I checked with some touches if the back or the ulcer triggerpoint show reaction. And if he is able to lift his belly and spine. Also if the hooves can be picked up and the joints are not sensitive. I saw some tension in general and a tail that was tight pressed on the body. Riding test was not what you wish, he was in a hurry, which comes from beeing unsecure and not in balance. Anyway, he was what I was looking for, not a perfect horse, but one that can improve, when you work with him. I bought him and it was the right descision.
Mr. A, you are a treasure! I have learned so much today, but I have done pretty well with years of gut instinct where gaited horses are concerned, the vet who didn't know how to flex test such a horse and lied to cover herself, etc. But the internal cues were totally new to me. Thank you & God bless!
I love your attitude and obvious care for these amazing creatures! ❤❤❤
Thanks for posting this Tim and nice job overall. For you and your subscribers to consider that you consider RED flags, 1) scars in the lower front of back leg - I believe the key here is to lift the skin tissue and feel with an A and B comparison so you are not passing on just normal scar tissue without ligament injury. Skin should move freely. You can even do this day of injury, btw to determine if a cut has gone to ligament. 2) The white hair in the withers could easily have been from a poorly fitting saddle that should never have been on the horse in the first place, versus a horse that is hard to fit. I see way more of that versus the latter where the horse is hard to fit. Again for your consideration, keep up the great videos.
I agree with everything in this video! Being honest is all we can ask from any buyer/seller. I’d also note that Lucy’s nose flair indicates she’s hurting.
This is fascinating. I’ve never heard anyone discuss these issues to look for. Now, since you are a retired police officer, can you tell us how to tell if a person is lying? 😀
Yes.
@@timandersonhorsetraining
Ok. I’m waiting patiently. 😃
@@timandersonhorsetrainingthat would be helpful to know for doing business with anyone, not just buying horses. Actually for everything in life! 👍🫤
@@4hoofs4ever007he said he “can” but didn’t say he “will”. Having teachers as both parents, I remember being corrected many times about which to use for the response wanted. 😉
Agreed!! I love this!
Fantastic video! I’m very experienced but I still learned a few great tricks to look for as indicators of red flags! I’d love to see an even more in-depth video strictly about different lamness indicators or other health concerns
Absolutely cannot believe how much I learned from this video and I am a relatively experienced horse lady. My friend turned me on to you and I'm so glad that she did. Talk about superb information oh my goodness!😊
One thing you didn't mention was teeth, making sure that the age the front teeth show match what the owner is saying. I bought my mare and she was supposed to be 12, according to the vet after doing her teeth she was in her 20's. That being said she is worth her weight in gold she is exactly the horse I needed and I wouldn't change a thing
A horse without papers is seldom over 12.
My guess as to him not mentioning teeth is because that is such a super BASIC item, EVERYONE should know this, it's a giant DUH! If you need to be reminded or told to check teeth you ought not be out horse shopping, you aren't ready, you need more experience and instinctual knowledge, lease for now
He does start talking about the horses, mouth and tooth care around the 15 minute mark.
It's simple to learn to age a horse by its teeth. It's on the internet. The hard part is getting the horse to let you see what you need to see.
Thank you for sharing this information, it is very helpful. I’ve always wanted my own horse, but never had the chance to acquire one, due to boarding issues and wanting a horse I could actually have close by me, plus having my own land, etc., but other life issues became more apparent then. Now I’m 74, still loving horses, but health issues prevails now….👍🙏🏼❤️🖖
Best content I‘ve seen so far, when it comes to buy a horse! Makes so much sense. Thank you, well done!
I normally vet check my horses. Regretfully, I didn't vet check an OTTB with a torn hamstring from last race 1 week before I saw her. She had top bloodlines, super athletic and gorgeous. She was owned by a vet. I asked what other injuries and medical problems and told she didnt have any. Since she was owned by a vet and I spoke with the owner vet by phone I didnt do a vet check and bought her. Well, she was lame off and on, her movement was unique but eye catching gorgeous. 8 mos after I bought her found out she had had wobbler surgery and then raced as a 3yr old (actually age 2.5 yr) tearing her hamstring. This surgery was never disclosed. I met briefly with the vet owner and was told she would be fine as a dressage horse. I bought her as a potential event horse. However, I found out she was too weak in the hind end for jumping and dressage. But she was an incredible trail horse. So I kept her and gave up eventing and dressage. I didnt want her to wind up for slaughter. We were together 21 yrs. Last year she passed 23 yrs old.
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I love this video. It’s great for buying but also for checking the one(s) horse you have. Very informative.
I really want to start learning about the horse. Thanks for the time to make this video 🎉
Great video! Great advice.
I have bought several horses and got a vet check every time. The one time it really paid off was finding an eye problem. He checked the horse in the dark hall of a barn. When he finished he said, "Lead him outside and have him face the sun." When I did, one of the horse's eyes partially closed. Upon examination he found a scratch which the owner may or may not have known about. He said it may not advance beyond where it is now or he could lose sight in that eye. That was a "hard no" for me.
Great catch!
I know a few people who have partially blind and completely blind horses. It's only a handicap if you make it an issue. Understanding that makes all the difference. All the people I know who ride visually impaired horses don't see it as a problem esp if their horses trust them.
I'd like to thank you for posting this video. What a breath of fresh air. Over the years I have bought, sold a number of horses but none for a few years now. Still have my old qh mare at 21 and paint gelding @ 23. Your video was a wonderful reminder of all one should watch for when buying a horse. Made me feel like going out and looking at a few, but those days are done for me. Great memories🙂🐎 thought 😊😊😊
My GF bought a Paso Fino a few years ago after her horse died. Cute horse, brown and white, was gated. She rode him around the arena and tried a bunch of stuff with him and decided to buy him. We brought him home. She was out walking him a couple days later and some kids were ther and she let them pet him. Apparently he turned around and bit her on the shoulder, I wasn't there, and he started acting up. She returned the horse shortly after. Not going to deal with behavior issues like that. I've only bought one horse and still have him. He does have laminitis that developed a couple years ago but he's better now but we still deal with it. He doesn't get to run around free on grass. Still ride him. He's 24 now and got him in 2011 at 12yo. For $900 not a bad deal in the long run. He is an "Easy keeper".
As a farrier of 20 odd years , knowing how to mouth a horse helps in aging one. A red flag to me is if the owners response to “ how old is your horse?” and what I find differs too much , ( unless they have papers) I’ll walk away.
Fairly new to the channel and loving your advice and content!! Thank you for sharing with us! I bought a rode down, aced horse as a teenager and learned really quick (about 4 days and a concussion) that he wasn’t for me. Luckily he was well trained and good at his job and we (honestly) sold him to someone who didn’t mind a difficult, more unpredictable horse. Well, I guess he wasn’t well trained if he acted like that but he did well in the arena while working just not out of it! 😂
Good point. You should try a horse doing everything you plan to do with that horse (if it is supposed to already know how). I've seen horses that were perfect in the arena and basket cases on the trail. (Older rope horses that only ever went from the trailer to the roping pen and back.)
And others that were perfect on trail, but shook with fear in an arena. (Reining prospect pushed too hard too young.)
Also, if the seller won't ride the horse and no one else at that barn is willing to get on it, that's a big red flag. If you aren't experienced, find someone who is to go with you!
Very educational. Mostly. I love how you are so calm. So consistent. So predictable
Thanks for sharing all this knowledge. Lucy has the sweetest face❤❤❤!
Thanks, great info. I've never vet checked any of my horses though I did look at the vet records on one. I was more lucky than skilled, since they ended up sound. I also knew some horses for a while prior to purchase and had issues declared by owners to allow me to decide if I could live with it. Never spent a huge amount of money, either, and that is also a factor.
I am a new #1 fan of Tim. I am new to the horse world and really appreciate all the education and especially honest people like yourself. Thank you for your wealth of information. ❤️
I have been offerd to take over a 18yrs old mare with crooked back..and offers to buy it later...really sweet horse but when i now have been listening to your video with red flaggs..so now im not going to even so see this horse..red flaggs...so thank you for posting your videos..really helpfull
Great video. Always good to have things pointed out like the navicular behavior which I'm not familiar with. I have been lucky to always have had good purchases. I always had good representation of the horses I got. If anything, they ended up being better than expected with some training. But it's always good to watch this kind of videos to stay alert.
I've had some people telling me about their horses being different after a few days from being drugged tho.
Great video Tim and great advice. It is easy to be taken advantage of for a beginner if you don't do your homework first. Don't' be afraid to ask questions and don't assume you are always getting truthful answers. Please take Tom's advice, it may save you some grief and heartache later on.
I think this is the most important and helpful video a saw ever.
I hope any horse owner himself go check his horse after this video if there maybe a red flag he missed by the daily routines.
Thanks alot of this awesome informative video from Bavaria!
Very astute! Great observations. Seldom is what you see what you're going to get. A horse will be different in unfamiliar surroundings and will try their boundaries with a new owner as well. They may or may not have been sedated. I really appreciate your categories of yes, no, maybe. It also depends upon your personal riding goals and how this horse is going to match up with them. A pleasure horse can be quite suitable for light riding but out of the running for more athletic ambitions.
I had no clue of the amount of information you should have before purchasing a horse.
Thank you,
Susan Lemon
Great video Tim. I will for sure use this on my next purchase. Thx 🙏
I have 5 rescue geldings. They all have some issues because they are older/senior geldings that nobody else wants. Three of them I can ride and 2 are retired. I'm in my 50s and don't ride very often. Thank you for this video. I taught me some things to check out if I ever actually buy a horse, again.
My first horse was a rescue from a kill pen. I was totally green and while I did not expect to ride him, I was not prepared for his attitude once he was healthy. He was overused to the point of emaciation shortly before I got him and while the rescuer meant well, she had no business letting me adopt him. He’s getting dangerous and now I will probably end up putting him down as his physical issues put him in more pain than can be medicated, some blindness and now EPM. What a lesson! My second rescue was from a well respected and known organization and since I knew her background she is a much better fit for me. Also learned after the first one to bring a trusted trainer to evaluate her. Thanks for all the good insight!
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If I were going to buy a horse, I would not go without you. I would know if I had a good horse. You talked about problems the new buyer would not be aware of.👍
Glad I found this video! A red flag which I encountered is cataracts with one eye much worse than the other. This was found during the PPE and along with several other problems, including sarcoids and slight lameness. Also the horse refused to open its mouth. I had travelled quite a distance and had high hopes but it was not meant to be. Question: Without a PPE how would the cataracts have been detected?
Cataracts are pretty easy to spot. You typically can see them, but the big giveaway is if they turn their head to a weird angle to see you.
When Was 14yrs (in the 70s) I bought my second pony without any adult supervision. He was a welsh-arab X and beautiful, had been turned out for 18 months but was easy to ride when I tried him out. However within 2 weeks of purchase behaviour problems appeared and got worse as he as he got fitter. In fact he was quite dangerous; would run alongside fences or trees trying to scrape me off, buck under branches and he had an awful buck. I eventually sold him and fully declared his behaviours. Lots of lessons in that experience but it didn't put me off horses and I was wiser for my children when they became interested in riding.
Thx for this info!! GREAT STUFF.
I guess I've been lucky in the past, I never got a "bad" horse, health nor behavior problems🤞🏻
In the future, I'll follow your guidelines
Thank you ! 💕🥕🐎
Several of the flags you mentioned would have brought questions to mind if I had watched this video before I purchased my current horse. Thank you for sharing this.
First useful horse buying video I've found. Thank you very much.
This is a fantastic video. I wish I had seen it before I bought my mare. I especially appreciate how it points out the signs of drugging and how to spot navicular without X-rays.
I've bought several horses sight-unseen. I know, not a good way to buy, but when they're several states away, sometimes that's just how it goes. My rule: there will be something wrong: teeth, feet, training, etc. They arrive, we let them settle down for a day or two and then do a thorough inspection and make whatever appointments need to be made (farrier, dentist, etc.). Sometimes we'll have appointments set up in advance if the owner was honest about any issues. So far, we haven't gotten burned, but I know some day we probably will. Anyhow, excellent video!
Thank you so much for the advice. I’ve bought some horses which were total disasters.
Wish I would have seen this great video years ago! I bought a horse that had would've been a hard "no" after watching this. And he was definitely a hard "NO!" after I already had bought him with terrible issues.
My horse got to be 34 and I thought I knew it all BUT learned something😅 looking into buying a new horse ( Percheron) will use your advice from this video
Great information. Thanks for sharing your knowledge
Good points (especially about vets finding issues.) I would add that by looking at the hollows above the eyes you can tell if it is an older horse. That was the first thing I noticed about Lucy. The other thing about the teeth is that the owner may have had them done but not have a competent equine dentist. Most vets are not extensively trained in this area and I have had lousy jobs done at reputable vet schools as well.
I found this video fascinating, even though I don't intend to buy a horse. It's amazing what this gentleman can infer from the various reactions.
I love Lucy ❤
I see what you did there!😂
Sometimes it’s easy. I’ve had horses since I was 21. And rode for years before I had my own horse. A young friend of mine stopped by and asked if I’d go look at a horse with her. And the guy who had the horse was close to my house. When we got there the horses head was shaking constantly the entire time we were there, kinda like a neurological shake. As if his head we a piñata on a string and someone were shaking the string from above. She asked me what I thought in front of the guy, I told her I wouldn’t get the horse. I didn’t know what that was but I wouldn’t want it to be my problem. She didn’t get the horse, and the guy hated me from then on.
Excellent advice. I really love the way you teach. I look forward to watching more videos and I don't even own a horse. If I did I would certainly come to you.
This is a very helpful video for screening whether you want to take the next step with a horse or walk away. Depending on what you want to do with it, you should probably also do flexions yourself and/or also have a vet exam. If you are paying good money for a horse that is going to do a demanding job like competing in jumping, eventing, dressage or reining for example, it would be foolish not to have a vet exam. The challenge is then how to interpret the results. As Tim says, the vet will always find something. But is it going to get in the way of the intended use is the key question.
I have purchased 4 horses for eventing and I regret that I didn't pull blood to test for sedation for the first one. I was able to ride her, but she really was too hot for my riding ability and it was always a struggle. I learned after that to always pull blood when buying a performance horse I wanted to show.
I also have learned the importance of good feet for my discipline. I purchased a horse who while sound at age 4 and suitable in all other ways, had a hoof that the vet said could be a problem. He didn't like the angles and suggested changing them. This horse is lovely to ride but as she got older, her feet became a real liability. She is often unsound. The vet who did the exam is very experienced and at a very well known vet hospital in California. It was on me to interpret the results and decide whether to buy her. This is how it works, so even with a vet exam, there are no guarantees. The good news if that if you are buying a horse for trail riding, soundness isn't as critical as it is for a competition horse in jumping disciplines.
At some point doe a vet exam not make financial sense as a percentage of the purchase price. A full vet check with X-rays will usually run $400 to $500 depending on the number of X-rays. So what percentage of the purchase price would you spend on a vet check? 2%, 5%, 10%, 20%?
@@timandersonhorsetraining at exams run a lot more expensive than that in parts of the Midwest. More than twice that amount in Ohio. That cuts into your cache of “buy money” for sure.
thank you for important information
Thanks. This was fascinating for me a beginning rider wanting to buy a horse someday. (Of course I would get a veteran horse owner to recommend one and go look at it.)
Great horse! Love how relaxed in cross tie! Tim my 5yr old gets high headed and sometimes back and forth how can I help him relax in cross ties?
A horse thst is nervous in cross ties I saddle in the arena, work him and get him good and tired the tie to my high line until they relax. That routine is usually doesn't take long.
Bought my first horse at age 58, got a PPE and thought all was fine. Rode him, and all went well. Got him home and he was gurthy and spooked at everything. Couldn’t hand walk him without him pulling and bolting. I felt unsafe around him. He was irritable and dangerous to be around. Then did blood tests and found muscle enzymes very high. He was severely deficient in vitamin E and diagnosed with PSSM, which can be managed with diet, but is incurable. Being a novice rider, I sold him back to a previous owner, and told her he needs a more advanced rider. Previous owners said he was beginner friendly and you could put your grandma and kids on him! Not the case at all. The PPE was worthless with this horse, didn’t know he had anything wrong until we got him home. Save your money on PPE’s. Just get blood tests if you want to confirm nothing is wrong with the horse…
So helpful, kind sir! Luci is a beauty 😍
Such a shame there are so many dishonest people selling horses knowingly with issues as if karma isn’t real (well it is). We were sold a horse with no cartilage in it’s fetlock for my daughter it was lame in two weeks and the trainer collected commission on the sale! Anyone selling a horse like that to a child/junior deserves criminal recourse IMO. The part I disagree with in this video is the vet check because if it’s a sport horse DEFINITELY get a vet check. Including X-rays. This type of overview would not be enough info for a sport horse! I also think a clean horse is expected in our discipline. Lucy you are adorable. ❤
One Saturday I checked out three horses. The ads or their owners said their horse was 16 hands. The second 16 hand horse I looked at that day was obviously taller than the first 16 hand horse I had seen. I drove to the third horse and she was taller than the previous two horses, even tho she too, was said to be 16 hands. I ended up buying her, and when I put a stick to her I found she was 15.3. Since then I have noticed that a very high percent of horses advertised for sale are said to be 16 hands.
I was just talking to someone recently about how horse height in ads is always wrong. Horses are advertised taller than they really are.
Oh, thank you so much for this video. I am definitely going to subscribe....I just looked at your video list😊
I’m going to go look at a yearling next month. I’ve seen videos and photos of the horse. Looked up the registry. The breed is a gypsy. What would a vet do differently. A basic vet check is walk, trot both directions. Pull on the tail to look for EPM, correct? Flexion test. Take a history from the owner. Get a set of x-rays, for what reason? What about eyes? Should a skin scrap test done on the feathers, looking for mites? Anything else come to mind, that I should look for? It has all the age appropriate skills.
Not being sure enough about all the signs you mentioned years ago when purchasing a horse was allowed to take them home for a week that changed my mind on a couple but agree about vet we have no idea which half of the class they graduated nor necessarily the animal they were really specialized when you have debt to pay you go to the busy clinic
Thank you thank you
Hi Tim!
Back in the early '90's, we were looking for a barrel horse that was 250 miles away. The owner sent us a VHS video of the mare.
🚩1st-owner was kind of pushy and appeared to be desperate to sell the mare.
🚩2nd-owner included a photo of the mares AQHA papers. We didn't plan on breeding her, but she was bred nice. The mare was 7 years old and this owner was #5! Scary!
🚩#3-the last part of the video showed the mare unsaddled. She was so sway back it was sad. We broke out laughing. Not about the horse, but because the seller was trying to sell this mare as solid and for the amount of money she was asking!
Needless to say, we passed and sent the tape back to the owner. A few weeks later, she called me offering the mare at a discount. I told the owner she needed to take the mare to the Vet for radiographs. She needed to find out if the mare was in pain and should be euthanized.
Thanks for this video. Great info!
Great detail and real-world info. Thank you.
Right of refusal after you have had the horse on approval for several days. Do not pay until you are happy with the horse after several days
Thanks for your videos I was raised with horses till I was around 8 & now 35 & I have a 4 year old Icelandic I’m beginning to work with her & so far I discovered she is disrespectful lol…your videos are helping me figure her out
Our vet ask what you will be doing with the horse before or the check. He will tell you what e found but adds ,if the horse is serviceably sound. He is stricter on a performance horse than a sometimes trail horse. The last horse I bought, I did not do a vet check , but took a very knowledgeable person with me to look at her.
Lucy shook her head 3x as you touched her left top of shoulder, maybe related to hoof pain or nerve related or nothing. Js Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
No she just doesn't like to be touched. She lets you know she is not a snuggler.
Great video. If you get a vet check you need to be very honest with the vet what you are going to do with the horse and what your experience level is (important for behavioural requirements as well) because no horse is going to be perfect as you say. There's such thing as functionally sound or fit for purpose. You can have a horse with issues, but they may still advise it is likely to be alright. (ie big difference between the soundness and confirmation requirements of a high level jumper vs a horse that gets taken out on weekends for a short beginner plod around.)
Great video for evaluating a horse!
Wow, this is an amazing video! Thank you!
We bought a horse that we were told had ulcers and three vets checks from the previous owner confirmed it. Fast forward several months and turned out she was pregnant and it wasn’t ulcers. 🤷🏽♂️. I was wish I knew back then what to look for with issues with the stifles because she had an old injury we were unaware of the made loping an issue. Thanks for all your information. Only 5 years into horses and still building knowledge. 👍
Found out a gelding I bought for my son was used previously as a stud and was brutal to certain other horses in a turnout situation.
Thank you Tim you all have a happy labor day Monday God bless 🐎 🐴
Thank you Lucy a sweet senior mare 💖
Very informative, thank you! 🎉
Thank you again for your excellent information
Good morning guys, Great info, thanks for video Tim.
Cribbing! I adopted a 17 yr old rescue OTTB a few months ago. It was not disclosed that he cribbed. What a nightmare this has been. He is just the sweetest horse but no one has any experience. Lots of suggestions have been given each with limited merit. Cribbing collar, muzzle, medications, having a buddy, smacking his nose ...
Cribbing releases endorphins into their brains, kind of like cocaine. Hitting a horse that cribs will not affect the behavior in the least, and it is cruel.
I’ve had a bad cribber . The best thing you can do is fit him with a cribbing collar, especially when he is in a stall to minimize damage to your stall areas. Cribbing is also addictive to horses around the cribbing horse. Sometimes, but not always, the behavior can spread.
Once you’ve got a cribber, you’re always going to have a cribber.
A high percentage of OTTB's have ulcers (stress from racing and trailering), and cribbing is their way of trying to relieve the pain. Either get a vet to check for that, or just assume that's what he has, and treat accordingly.
Great information. 👍👍
I learned a hard lesson. I traveled to another state and didn't ask the right questions. The horse was already tied and saddled, calm as can be. They rode her in the round pen first, no issues for all gaits but she was reluctant to move. I wanted a slower horse so I thought great! Only after I had signed and handed over the check was I told she'd never been stalled only turned out. Got her to my barn, she was insane in a stall. I couldn't groom her much less anything else without stressing us both out. She started to buck gait transitions. Spooked at everything. I have never seen the super calm behavior from her, even after settling in, that I saw in that first meeting. I have no doubt they gave her something. I did a ppe but no drug test. Very hard and expensive lesson learned.
That can happen. A horse used to being out 24/7 will feel very restricted in a stall, so acting-out wouldn't be a surprise.
I hope you can work with this horse and save him
It didn’t happen to me but it happened to a friend who went to Canada to pick up an eventing horse. That horse almost killed her before my eyes! In the middle of a jumping course, he reared, turned on his heels and made for the barn! He was not dependable. She said he was fine when she went to see him.
I bought a retired thoroughbred who we nicknamed Big Dog because of his sweet and gentle personality. And, he was healthy and sound. Loved by his first owners, a private couple, and me!
I used to rehab horses off the track so I knew what to expect but he surprised me with no scars, no mental issues and no serious physical issues. He just didn’t want to race anymore and his owners respected him enough to find a good home for him.
Such a sweet, kind girl.
At 21:04 right as you place your hand flat on the wither area , if i look at the tip of your thumb i see a line that extends forward in the contour of that area. It appears like a ripple in the tissue. I ask about this because i see it on one of my geldings. He is a quite round easy keeper so its not a weight loss issue. I have always worried that it was muscle atrophy. Your thought woukd be appreciated. Great informative video.
It's hard to see depth on video but that is a layer of fat inder the skin.
@@timandersonhorsetraining thanks Tim for your reply.
Oh boy! Where do I begin? Good stuff in this video, thank you. And yes, we’ve seen the good, the bad and the ugly and we’ve unfortunately bought a couple of the bad ones. Our first horse was a gray guy but, unfortunately, he was sick when he was sold to us and the seller took full advantage of us bringing green and not knowing what to look for. But to make matters worse, when our farrier pointed out that the horse may have laminitis, we hired one of the best known vets in the area and he came out and said the horse was healthy. Fast forward two to three months, the poor horse died! Turns out the second vet (a young vet coming up in the area) confirmed that the lumps and lethargy Id noticed means he suffered from Cushing’s disease. We held nothing back and spent and spent but he died with his head on my arms.
The second bad experience was a horse that I motored had a hard time turning right. I was reassured time and again she was Ok by seller, trainer and vet. I insisted to deaf ears and my wife bought her. Despite all our efforts, while working her she launched my wife shattering her left leg which is now rebuilt with titanium rods. Everything you taught here would have helped us avoid those issues along with a good those of trusting our own observations just like you said!