If a Japanese manufacturer made a 500cc 'Honda 300 Rally' equivalent, it would be a huge success... 50-60hp, ≥160kg, 6th 'tall' gear, range of 350-400km, services 8,000-10,000km- That'll be my everything bike.
Exactly why I bought a DR650, mine is not buzzy, I love singles. Put $2,000 into it and it's perfect for me and all under $10,000. I don't need all the bs riding modes, abs or quick shift and I can figure out which gear I'm in without a special readout or a blinking light for gas level and I can fix anything on it without a computer and 6 month wait for parts. Over 250 mile range with my tank and a little piece of plastic above the headlight keeps wind off my chest, cruises freeway all day at 75. Maintenance? What maintenance.
If the Dr 650 was modernized with fuel injection, upgraded suspension, maybe a 6th gear and few other adjustments and suddenly you have the perfect adventure bike, at least for myself anyways. I will note the Dr isn't 70 horsepower, but it's so reliable that I don't care, besides it's got plenty of torque. In my opinion the current Dr 650 model which hasn't changed since 1996 with a few mods is one of the best 50-50 options out there. The potential for the Dr 650 to be better overall is certainly possible.
Yeah baby!!!! I agree, A good motor, a good fuel system, brakes, tranny, suspension and awesome frame with no electronics (except legal lights), one gauge (temp gauge to avoid nastiness) pick your tires.
I have to agree with the DR 650 fans here. I sold my DRZ 400 and my Triumph tiger and replaced both with the DR 650. While it is not as good a street/touring bike as the tiger, nor as good a dirt bike as the DRZ, it is truly a great motorcycle and a total hoot to ride, no matter where I ride it. That torquey motor is its own reward.
It is not about spending 50/50 time on- and offroad. It is about having a bike that can do both as good as possible. Even if I spend only 5% off my time off road, I want those 5% to be as enjoyable as possible.
Great video with excellent points. I too have multiple bikes and agree with your general assessment. But you overlooked another opportunity that seems possible. A DRZ400 with a 6 speed transmission and fuel injection. That's probably why you have the Honda 450.
Yes. We have a goon! Seriously, we had a good compromise with the Honda XL/XR 500 models. Later, replaced by the XL/XR600-650 models (depending on the markets). I had tons of fun riding my XR500 in on/off road conditions. This changed when I fitted the XR engine in a C&J frame. Then it became a pure off-road bike.
CRF ~400cc Rally ~40hp with better suspension than 300 rally and similar service intervals for 2 or 3k more. I think it would sell. Don't need a twin, just decent balancing.
I purchased my 2012 F800 with this in mind. I cut a bunch of weight, added 21” x 18” steel wheels, let Racetech create great suspension. I had about the closest thing I could get my hands on. I’ve been enjoying it for a long time now and it just keeps on going. In my garage it’s my dirt bike.
I'm pretty happy with the KTM 690 Enduro R. Some mods are needed to help it be the bike I want it to be but it was pretty close right out of the crate. Coming off an extremely moded KLR, the KTM is light years ahead of it. It vibrates a LOT less and oil change intervals at 6,200 miles don't seem too often to me. I will still change it every 4k miles or so but I would do the same on a DR or KLR as well. I get the point though. I have 6 bikes and they all serve a purpose. Keep up the videos. I enjoy watching.
I have owned a klr, 690, t7 and Ktm 500exc. The 690 is as close as you can get to the unicorn. But man do I love my 500exc. If I have learned anything, you need multiple bikes.
My friend's 690 SM had the frame crack. No reason. No crashes, the guy is not big on wheelies. Just broke next to where the frame slider is. If KTM's were reliable...
If you put bark busters with the built in handle bar weights on your singles you kiss most of the vibration goodbye. I have a exc500 and absolutely love it! I don't think I'll ever get rid of it.
Chinese companies like CFMoto may surprise us and get closer to a unicorn bike. Your definition of a unicorn is different than how I and many would define it though. For me, it would be something like a WR450R with a 4-5 gallon tank, basic windscreen, comfortable seat, 40HP, sub 350lb weight, and service intervals similar to the WR250R I currently own.
I’m buying the Kove 450 Rally for that reason. 370lbs wet with an 8 gallon fuel tank, 51hp 450cc single with liquid cooling, ABS, and 11 inches of suspension travel. Its the closest to the unicorn we will get
I share your vision of the unicorn bike, as well as your belief that the Chinese will probably give us a lightweight ADV bike with enough HP to comfortably cruise on the highway when needed. The reason the big Japanese and European manufacturers refuse to give us the bike we want is because they don't want to detract from their big ADV bike sales. They belatedly and reluctantly added a small ADV bike to their lineup but positioned it not to be the best it could be, but rather to be a beginner bike to get customers on the upgrade path to their $15K bloated mid size or $25K full size maxi bloated ADV pig. I love my G310GS, but it's really singing at 75 MPH on the highway, however the real crime against humanity is the 2.9 gallon fuel tank. That's an unforgivable sin on an ADV bike.
Very true. I'm selling my Tenere and get 1) an Africa Twin and 2) a WR450F. Both great in their field whilst the Tenere is questionable in both unless you are Pol Tarres...
Ya, I would have to agree, I have 2, at one point had 3, but in the end, more money,more bikes an bigger stable is the only solution to this problem. You go to bed and wake up thinking...which bike am I going to ride today.....
This is why I'm old school at this point and ride two bikes: 2005 R1200GS and a 2022 Husqvarna FE 501S. That combo was solid in 2005 and it's solid now. I'd love an 890 Adventure R, but then I'd have to look at it and it would be worse than both bikes I have.
There have been a few that came close. The old KTM 640 Adventure had a 7 gallon tank and weighed about 400 lbs fully fueled. It had a payload capacity of around 440 lb and pillion pegs. It had a great long-travel suspension. It was related to the 660 race bikes that KTM used to win the Dakar circa 2000. Shortcomings were a minimal wind screen and a very buzzy engine. It didn't sell very well -- in fact, I never even heard of the thing until long after it went out of production. Currently the AJP PR7 is not far off from unicorn status. It weighs about 364 lb wet. It has a 4.5 gallon under-seat tank that keeps the weight centralized. More than 11" of suspension travel. It has reasonably long maintenance intervals and it has a rally-tower wind screen. It is a thumper, so it won't be as smooth as some twins, but the biggest issue is that it isn't street legal everywhere. As for the KTM 690 Enduro ... it's a good bike, but KTM (for some inexplicable reason) has steered it away from unicorn land. It has one of the best thumpers ever made (powerful and with long maintenance intervals), a decent suspension, and a good frame. But, it doesn't have a real sub-frame to support luggage, it doesn't have even a rudimentary wind screen, and it doesn't have a wide-ratio transmission. That last one is a real crime, because the 690 is light enough to handle moderately-difficult single track, but you can't gear it down enough for single-track without making it scream on the highway.
I used to own one. "Buzzing" is an understatement and the oil change with the oil running in the frame was a pain in the behind. I now own a 500EXC and it's better everywhere sans the fuel range and payload capacity. Like he said, everything's a compromise.
@@alessandrogomesaraujo4206 I don't see a 660E anywhere ... there was the 660Z, which is similar to the KTM 640 Adventure, except with 3" less suspension travel, 10% less power, a gallon less fuel, and 50 lb more curb weight. It did have a better wind screen though, and the engine was probably less vibey.
@@C_R_O_M________ I've owned a 640 since 2003 and the vibration keeps me off of it unless I have it in the California desert where it's amazing. I had a 450 EXC and it was great off road but horrible on the street. I've had various dirt bikes and currently have a KTM 350xc-f. I'd love to replace my 640 with a modern day version. I don't want to be putting a kit on a 690 enduro.
When I look at adventure bike videos, I want to try them. I then realize, if I bought one, I would still ride my dirt bike more, because that is what I enjoy more. Unless you are Chris Birch, who is sponsored by KTM, most of us will not enjoy an adventure bike in the dirt. They are too heavy. Thanks for your video.
Yep , balance the wheels on your enduro bike , fit a big tank. If ya haven’t already 😉. Best adventure bike you well get if ya don’t ride 500k tar sections.
This is why I chose the Husky 701 SM as my ride. I am and always will be predominantly a road rider. I like the idea of offroading, but apart from the 1 or 2 gravel roads I ride on a year, it makes no sense for me to get anything more dirt biased. The 17s on the supermoto with some nice 80/20 ADV tires is plenty enough for the "offroad" that I do while giving little away on the road. That's where my balance is for me and makes sense for me. Admittedly though, I am thinking going back to a full road sport touring set up. That's just more what I truly am, but still am enjoying the 701. Some of these ADV bikes with some 17s slapped on would be a greatly welcome addition. KTM 890 sport tourer anybody?
I agree on the technical points of the difficulty in manufacturing a sub 400# twin. It's gonna be real difficult while keeping it reasonably priced and maintaining reliability. I disagree somewhat on the 50/50 rider. It's not the amount of time I spend on each surface (dirt/asphalt), it's that I want to bike to perform (as close to) optimally under most conditions, even if it's more like 70/30 (dirt/street). As an example - I did 1,400 miles across SW/SE Oregon back in September. I planned a route that stayed on as much dirt as possible. But, I did have to bail out on the pavement a couple of times and covered 100-150 miles or so at a time. Having a twin (Yamaha T-7) makes that so much more enjoyable than a single. Having that same capability on the road, but about 75# less weight on the dirt would open up even more terrain. If someone does make a sub 400# twin, then I think the horsepower will be where the tradeoff is made, say a 500-600 cc with 60 or so hp.
Great video. I am not a 50/50 rider, and I will never be one, but I would love to see something like CRF 450 Rally (that has 300 Rally service intervals) or T5. I would buy that bike without hesitation.
Great video. I am struggling with this as I am sure many are. I think the right answer for me is a solid dual sport with a larger fuel tank and soft luggage for those times when I want to travel with it.
Great video mate. I think the latter point is the most likely. In my humble opinion the reason this bike doesn't exist is because we all think we are better riders than we actually are. The reality is every bike in production is more capable than 99% of the riders. The bikes are not the limiting factor. Case in point Pol Tarres finishing top 10 in Erzberg on a light weight enduro rocket ship and 77th on a Teneree 700. We want to much out of our bikes. The reality is the light weight adventure bike does exist albeit with minor modification. KTM 690, AJP PR7, SWM 500 (wider range gearbox) , WR 450. The bikes are not the limiting factor, we are. Having said that KTM should produce the 690 enduro and husqvaran the 701 rally and problem solved. We all have so many complaints because we are soft as ferk. Oh my bike is to heavy (get stronger), oh my suspension is to soft ( lose weight) oh my bike doesn't handle well enough (get better) oh this single is buzzy (harden up). Rant over lol.
My unicorn bike is a 400-500 cc single cylinder ADV bike, sub 400 pounds, 40-50 HP, $8000 or less, but with good suspension and ground clearance, a 5-6 gallon fuel tank, tubeless spoke wheels and long service intervals. Bonus points for a proper bash plate and engine protection, serious brush guards on the grips, a comfortable seat, large pegs for standing, and a large rear rack. Now that I'm in my 60s I ride back roads and a little mild off road, but would like to be able to take a highway for a get-home-quick option when a ride goes off the rails without red lining the engine for an hour. Modern thumpers have good counter balancers. They aren't as smooth as a twin, but they're smooth enough. From what I can see, this bike doesn't exist because of marketing weasels. The big manufacturers see their reluctant late addition small ADV bikes as beginner bikes to get customers on the upgrade path to their $15K to $20K "proper" ADV bikes. They don't want to make a great smaller ADV bike because it would detract from their big ADV bike sales rather than add to them. The problem isn't engineering. The problem is marketing. That's often the way of the world. The closest I've found to my unicorn bike is the BMW G310GS. I'm very happy so far, but I'd like a bit more power for the occasional highway riding that I do, although it doesn't seem to mind me ringing it out for an hour to sprint home. The fatal flaw in the baby GS is the 2.9 gallon fuel tank on an ADV bike. That's unforgivable. It should be twice that capacity.
Nice work. But I do have to say... I think your 70-90 hp benchmark is overkill. If your bike weights 400lbs or less, than 40 hp will propel you enough to overtake whenever you want ( normal circumstances) ,and you will accelerate faster than MOST cars.The DR650 fits the bill. And it's cheaper than your 5 figure. And yes I was scammed with my 1st bike when I bought a cb500x thinking I was going to enjoy it offroad. Got a DR now! Cheers
I too have DR650. I saved so much on the purchase price, I upgraded the carburetor to a pro jet kit, Leo Vince exhaust, Cogent Mojave suspension. Easily cruises 75 mph. But can go 95+ for passing. Of course it’s a dirt monster!
I love my DRZ400 with big tank, slightly lowered and geared up... no trials, MX or freeways, but everything else. Just start by finding tires that both have great asphalt and mud performance...
The ktm 690 isn't buzzy. Oil change intervals are 6k miles. Its the unicorn you speak of, but too heavy for ohv trails in the pnw. I hope they make a 390 enduro that weighs less than 300lbs and costs less than $8,000.
If you have multiple bikes you’ve already failed the test of being a 50/50 rider. But for those of us who can only afford/want one bike that does both well, that’s the market. By having multiple bikes you’re more in the enthusiast category, and therefore disqualify yourself from needing a 50/50 machine. The market is for people that don’t have the coin, desire, space to have multiple machines sitting around that we can jump on when the need arises.
I’m in the market, and I already own three bikes. The unicorn bike I have in mind probably will never exist. But if it did, I would still own multiple bikes, because I enjoy the uniqueness of them all. 🤘
Bring back the 2 Stroke with modern fixings! It’ll Cut the weight, Add exhaust scavenging or supercharging. Make it a twin 350 or 400 with an oil sump or oil injection with a relatively large gas tank and a way to put on luggage. I think sub 400 is definitely possible with touring in mind and will handle happily off road.
@@BornAGoon Sadly, if only our government organizations focused more on building and growing habitat for wildlife like that Indian man who planted a forest to stop erosion, instead of taking away our fun, I think we’d be in a better spot. At the rate we’re going they’re gonna try to take away our 4 strokes and tell us we can’t charge our electric vehicles because of electricity shortages…oh wait.
Should be able to build up your Honda for light adventure with 20L onboard around 330lbs. Probably get a KTM500 built up similarly closer to 300lbs. Would sure be sweet to see Yamaha step up to the table with a dual sport WR500. Thanks for keeping the dream alive.
Very well said but there is still another dimension. For example, if I wanted to ride between Telluride and Ouray, I could do it without ever leaving pavement, or I could do it without ever leaving the dirt. So that is the choice you refer to. But certain choices are made for us instead. For example, I could choose a dirt bike for the street but only one that has a license plate, or I could choose a street bike for the dirt but only so long as it has the needed traction and clearance. So either way, you make a choice to start out on the street but at some point the trail is presented to you. Or you start on the trail, but at some point you have to ride on the paved roads. So the unicorn everyone really wants, is a street legal machine that go as deep offroad as desired. Sometimes that machine won't take you as deep as you want. Sometimes the machine that can take you as deep as you want won't take you on the highway. So the choice between 50-50 or 70-30 is a moving target, for everybody, and everybody looks for the bike they are capable of handling everywhere they want it to go, and they want it carry them comfortably as far and as fast as they would like. Therefore the perfect unicorn bike is a 200/200/200 machine with heated seats and grips that weighs nothing, 13 inches of clearance that you can easily plant both feet down, that's 200 mph, 200 mile range, 200 lbs.
Exactly, I run an old 450 EXC for fun, for real fun my Aprilia RXV 550, twin cylinder, 126kg full of fuel and 72hp supermoto spec engine. It can be done!
Honda already has the perfect platform to build up into the unicorn adventure bike. The xr650l. With a lower seat height, a larger tank, fuel injection and borrowed fairing styling from its little 300 sister honda could tick all the boxes we are asking for. Also the xr650s existing culture and wide aftermarket selection this bike would be a hit among the adventure community. A capable bike that out performs the kawasaki klr, while undercutting the price point of the yamaha T7 and suzuki V strom.
This video is so spot on! The adventure motorcycle market is a marketing scam. Just my little humble opinion, adventure should be in the soul of the rider, not the bike he or she rides. Unless someone lives in the middle in the Outback or Patagonia, the rider profile of 50/50 will probably not apply. Bottom line, be happy to be riding on whatever terrain you have available! Great video Mr. Goon! Cheers!
I think an adventure bike would shine on vacations and weekend trips, where you travel far but also do trails. If just used for commuting, there are better options.
I bought one and I love it. The handling and suspension is very good. The engine has plenty of power for highway cruising, and plenty of low end grunt to lug around off road. It is easy to plate in my state, but not in others.
Even though the Aprilia Tuareg 660 is just over 400lbs, it is still a good value and close to all the specs that everyone is looking for. I was kind of disappointed when the Transalp 750 when came out more road oriented.
450 lbs / 204.11 kg wet and is way too heavy offroad! What is missing is a DS-Enduro +ADV Rally bike between 300Rally/DRZ - DR650,XR650R/L, Fe501 - 701 Enduro etc.
I recently bought a Honda 450L and am in the process of turning it into a lightweight ADV. Aside from the Kove 450 (which is not yet street-legal as I write this), I think it's about as close as you can get to the right platform for building the bike I want-namely, something I could do a BDR on by myself and enjoy the experience, rather than just survive it. I intended to do this on my Africa Twin but after a few reality checks, it's just too much damned bike. I realized that I could either have a true lightweight that's more fatiguing on the freeway, or a big bike that's MUCH more liable to injure me or get stuck on a difficult trail (and less enjoyable regardless). For me that was an easy choice, but it's certainly a tradeoff. Having no prior experience with dirt bikes, the weight of this thing is a revelation. I'm sorry, but your T7 or 890 or any other "middleweight" ADV is still a heavy-ass bike. Yeah, Pol Tarrés can rip on it like it's a 250 or a Trials bike, but are you Pol? I'm not. Multi-cylinder ADV's are easily the most versatile motorcycles. They're a great choice for any trip on quasi-maintained roads (paved or otherwise). But are you in good enough shape to pick one up 5 or 6 times, fully-laden, when it's 100º in the desert and your choices are to keep riding or call for LifeFlight? I'm not. And even if I were, it doesn't sound like fun. It's going to take some mods, but if you buy one used as I did, many of those have probably already been done. My bike is currently ~280lb and 50HP or so; the weight and power are certainly there. Stock suspension is far more capable than I'll ever be. There are aftermarket fuel tanks up to 5 gallons, so the range can be had. The frame has proven sturdy enough to carry a reasonable BDR load. And honestly, it's not as bad on the freeway as I thought it would be. Would I choose it for a 1000-mile highway journey? Heck no. Can I deal with it for a couple hours? Sure. And it's an absolute BLAST lane-splitting through traffic. You can't have it all, and with this bike, reasonable maintenance intervals are the major thing you can't have. You just have to accept that as the price of entry. Oil changes are a 10-minute job if you get a skid plate that allows access to the drain plug. And it only takes 1.2qt of oil, so they aren't expensive either. I can live with it, for everything else I'm getting.
I want 50/50 triple/ Omnisport single, so far all ADVs have been overweight with big twins and become heavy pigs off road. Either way, Rieju Aventura 500 Legend and the KOVE 450RALLY set the benchmark. But have to settle for a WR450F, DRZ, XR650R, DR650, G650X Challange, Fe501, 500 Exc or 690/700/701 Enduro.
A BMW F650GS twin cylinder weighs just under 400lbs dry, makes 71hp (allegedly), and MSRP would be $12,727USD in 2023 with inflation from the 2010 MSRP. Is this not the unicorn you seek?
For me the focus should be on calming the vibes of a thumper. This and more oil capacity. The parallel twins all have the weight in the wrong spot. 500excf is so close to the unicorn.
True that! There is nothing between CRF300L/Rally, DRZ400 and DR650, XR650L, 690/700/701 Enduro. WR450F, CRF450L/RL, Fe501, 500Exc is close but longer intervals...
WOW, great video. I originally thought the manufactures refused to make the Unicorn bike because they would shrink their own market. Meaning, they can sell you one bike not the two that are required to satisfy the 50-50 rider, but your logic and knowledge of the motorcycle rider completely convinced me that your correct. There is no 50-50 rider!!!! Genius !!!!
Aprillia's 550 RXV was as close as this earth 🌍 will ever see to a perfect design. It needed a Dakar Rally fairing and larger tank, but the H.O. Twin is what is needed. I would also like to see a front wheel electric motor for slow speed acceleration or off the line torque and regenerative braking.
@@BornAGoon the other issue is curb weight includes fuel. This means that the larger the range the heavier it appears to be. These bikes should always be measured using "dry weight".
KTM 390 ADV is as close as you will get off the shelf; it’s more road based than many want, but put nobblies and a smaller front sprocket and it’s better off-road. The engine is great fun on the road.
Wet weight 379 lbs (172 kg) is way to heavy for serious 50/50, Was surprised how bad the components (brakes clutch etc) were and how poorly the chassis was balanced. The chassis felt clumsy and heavier than 660 Tuareg, T7. It also lacks suspension, spoked wheels, low end grunt, high ground clearance and so forth! 490 Adventure + Enduro might not have been a bit better.. If Norden 501 and 501 Enduro can get Dna from Fe350-701 Enduro, then maybe there is some hope!
Take a 690/701 motor, put a wide ratio transmission in it. Put that motor in the old 640 adventure frame (with attachment points for lightweight luggage), with the good suspension from their dirt bikes and people will be lined up to buy it.
you have to have 2 bikes unfortunately (I actually love having 2). I use the KTM 500 for overnighters closer to home or more technical, but its terrible on the highway. I recently got the desert x which is the most fun I've ever had on a motorcycle . It feels so light and flickable that I'm using it more than my KTM - and on the road it feels like a sport bike. I put the decat pipe on as well as silencer (SC Project) and it took an additional 12 pounds off the weight which is now just 20 pounds heavier than my old T7 but with a lot more power and way better suspension.
I just want them to put twin tanks of the 450L and a rally tower for styling. Call it the 450L rally... then make it around the tenere price tag. I'd buy a single with twin tanks and rally looks. Hell yeah... unfortunately if I want a rally bike atm, I'm looking at spending 30k.
The 2019+ KTM 690R has a revised engine and is pretty darn smooth. I think this is a perfect light weight adventure bike with the proper setup. Hopefully KTM we'll realize this too
Once you get on a smooth bike that glides the highway you realize how not smooth that KTM is. There are times when I'll tour 9+hrs a day and the vibrations add up...
Being a new owner of the KTM 890 ADV R, I realize now this bike is capable of anything! However, at my age and sustaining a major injury; I don't do all the daring stuff that the bike is capable of. The main thing I dread when riding hard is being able to pick it up when I crash. I usually crash at least twice when riding hard. With my luggage it's probably ~ 500 lbs. I'm a strong burly guy, but 500 lbs is a lot to pick up alone (multiple times). I agree with you in terms of a single cylinder vs. a twin cylinder. It definitely needs to be a twin cylinder. Somewhere in between the 690 R and 890 R weighing ~ 400 lbs with luggage would be ideal.
@@davidcolinfisher1034 Yes it is! I crash a lot mainly and loose dirt and sand. There are areas to ride close to my house, but it is sandy with lots of washes. I did get ran off the road on Saturday in the mountains and crashed. That was fun. The kid that ran me off the road helped me lift my bike back up.
I ride in SW Washington. Have put 8k miles on a DRZ 400 I bought in 2016. It’s about 50 hwy miles to get out there. A lot of the time I ride alone. Always thinking about different bikes but every time I crash, I’m always reminded why the DRZ. It doesn’t do anything really well but it does pretty much everything. And that last 50 miles of pavement on the way home after a long day or 3, sucks.
It looks like so many of us would like to see a crf450l rally with similar maintenance intervals as the 300l , but I think that Honda knows that if they bring that bike, it will affect the sales of the 300l and maybe the sales of the 450rl and besides that,it looks most manufactories need an engine that can be used in at least 3 different models to make profit out of their investments Cheers 🏍️
My 790AdvR comes darn close to unicorn. I shed some good kgs and now it's ~195kg with fuel and with enduro tires plus tubliss system, suspension tuning, steering damper. This bike over terrain I am riding is not performing worse than dual sports. On the other hand I have no problem riding 140km/h on tar except maybe for tire wear. I had a chance to compete on it in Rally event and my special stages times were equal to average time in single cylinder class. Also rode with buddy of mine on EXC-F350 and he stayed behind for the most part. In a bit more difficult terrain I was able to ride over everything he was. Situation would change in mountains and rocky terrain, but that is not where I ride. In sandy/forrest, flat terrain it is my unicorn and I recommend to anyone both the bike and mods
I'm a literal 50/50 rider lol. I live off grid up in the mountains. Exactly half my commute is steep dirt twisties that are often washed out or blocked by landslides or snow. The other half is a twisty paved canyon run down into town. Usually i end up riding 50/50 in the area as it's a pretty even mix of paved and dirt roads out in the valley. 5 miles or so of pavement to get out of town, a 10 mile stretch up to another 5-10 mile pavement stretch then more dirt across the valley until i hit the paved section leading back into the mountains. It's like y'all forget rural Arizona exists lol, i prefer to ride on dirt, the longer the ride i do the more the dirt % rises but as a daily commute it's literally the mythical 50/50 ride.
Some good points... however I think the market has come close a few times and those bikes have sold well. T7, 500x, 390adv, DRZ400, and various 650 dual sports are all great examples. I dont think the "Unicorn" necessarily needs to be 600+ CC. It just needs to be a competent offroad machine still capable of Decent freeway riding. And to that end I think the sweet spot truly lies in the 400-500cc range. Either a big single or small Ptwin. Rumors have circled about an NX500 Dominator in the works. Wich if it follows through with its traditional Enduro frame with fairings could very well be that bike. KTM is also said to be working on a 490ADV Ptwin that could hit the mark as well.
I would say 500-600 is the sweet spot.50-60hp, higher torque with flat curve. So that it can do 130kmph on a highway with a passenger. Electronically adjustable suspension to behave well on road and off. Around 450lbs/200kg to make it realistic. I think the required power is probably the most overrated thing out of the other criteria. Honda 500x kind of fits those specs, but the frame, suspension, cast wheels and engine are very road oriented. I want a sturdier frame that doesn't use the engine for support. 20+cm ground clearence. Wire wheels. Less power more torque engine with lower revs. I was hoping for something like that from the transalp. But they created a Hornet with bigger wheels. IMO they don't build it because it would mean a completely new platform. New frame, new engine. They rather slightly adjust what they have. They almost nailed with Tenere 700. It could have a bit lower center of gravity. And if they made it 500cc with 50hp and slightly ligher, it would be ideal.
@@vojtal182 200 kg is too much! The old 950 Super Enduro with a 1000CC engine (LC8) weighted less than 200Kg. My 500 EXC weights 130kg and if it had a bigger oil and gas tank it'd be the perfect bike for me. The power is enough. Almost the same power to weight ratio as my old 990 ADV R.
@@C_R_O_M________ Have had all three at the same time, now just the 990A and 500EXCF. Compromises across the board. The 950SE was my favourite but to get any kind of mileage (~120miles) I ran the Exxon Valdez tank which just made it super top heavy and dangerous on single track. The head angle also was more appropriate for high speed desert run than tech single track. That fueling though was a beautiful experience, silky smooth. Carb maint wasn't fun, it sat on the kitchen table for months while I tried to figure it out. The 990A works great on roads (crossed the US on it) once you deal with the buffeting and 150-180 mile range and does easy single track but it's a heavy beast picking it off the ground with luggage. My adventurized 500EXCF is my unicorn bike, as close to perfect as possible for out west. A 200 mile tank, comfortable (relative) seat, ecu, other mods. Can do single track and 100mph sprints on tarmac, but I'm not doing 200 miles on the road without doing some stretching. Change the oil every few thousand miles and it's good to go. Is it perfect? No, but it's close.
Very cool video! :D BUT I think you are being a bit "too greedy" with the HP demand... 70-90hp is too much in my opinion. I think it would be more reasonable to ask for a twin that is 50-70hp. That way: 1) it would be easier to stay under the the 400lbs mark 2) it would be easier to stay on the cheaper side 3) The power would be easier to manage on such a lightweight bike (most people cant really handle the 690, its too ready to race) 4) It would have its clear niche, instead of being a little bit of everything. I believe we desperately need something between the CRF300L and the 690, in terms of HP Keep up the AWESOME work man :)
Ah! I want to throw anotnher hat in the ring :D I agree with you that a "true 50-50" bike doesnt make a lot of sense, cause that pratically means it is dull/limited on both environments.. but if then we consider 70-30% bikes, or 30-70% bikes, then perhaps things would make more sense. The thing is... nowadays you have 29391 big/med adventure bikes that fit that 70/30 category (Onroad / Offroad), but almost no bike exists nowadays that fits the 30/70 category, perhaps except the CRF300L, that ultimately "fails" for being so weak. At least here in europe, we lack dual-sports... and I dont mean "performance dualsports" like the ones that are so common on the US, I mean old school dualsports like the DR650, the DRZ400, the TT600, etc... if they could make something like that with a twin, and under 400lbs, that would be sweet! So basically an offroad dedicated bike that is sturdy and big enough to withstand (with limited but some enjoyiment and confort) a long stretch on the road
@@RouteNRide i am not worried about crossing a log, i am worried about the general feel of having a bigger wheel. Those few % of difference affect how everything feels, from easy stuff to hard stuff, and because i am an offroad oriented person, i want the best setup possible. If i see a 19" wheel i know for a fact that bike's offroad performance was compromised and usually a lot more compromises will be done. If 19" is so good, they would be using it in enduro/mx/baja competitions, wouldnt they? Save some weight, lower cg...
Hi Mate-Rider, I want try to reset my backround to reborn and giving importance to things they didn't have it ... ... it's all in our mind / WE MUST CHANGE ( My 44th Bike , after the last Africa Twin Adv Sport 2018, just little heavy , and Husky 701 (Fragile cams) it's a new Honda 300 L Rally 2022 //// It was not easy but I had prepared myself 😘 and after 4 months and 8000 km, I believe I'm reaching my balance now //// YES I spend other 4000€ in addition for many parts / suspension + exhaust + rims + remap ECU + footpegs and other parts , but I have my little UNICORN now ..... and I'm HAPPY but we must reset. Maybe we really have to lose something to earn something else in a new unknown horizon, Sorry for my english Luca (Milan Italy)
Because a lightweight and reasonable price adventure bike will fucked up their bottom line since all of the other line up will be relegated to nothing. Imagine, for example, a CB500x motor with a body like the CRF300L, abs, 21-inch front wheel, and no crap electronics, at 7000 USD. No one will go for the ktms or the teneres unless they need the HP, and let's face it, most traveling adventure riders won't need more than 50 hp.
My KTM 790 R has been a great blend. I realize it’s 450 lb. + bike but for the mountains of Idaho, it’s been fantastic! It’s the closest unicorn bike for me.
In my search for the unicorn ive settled on three sizes. a wr450, dr650, and super tenere. The dr650 is the closest to a true 50/50 bike, took alot of adjustments and farkles but it is the true 50/50 rider bike, which being that is what made me go and get the other two. Because it did it all but was not great on long trips and on more technical trails it was a bit heavy and clumsy compared to trail bikes. 50/50 =100 it is a compromise in the name alone, it will never be the best at all but good for both. The unicorn would be a 100/100 or as close to that as you could get, they dont want a 50/50 bike thus the quest for the impossible? If they could make that unicorn a bike. To me it would be you could comfortably ride 500+ mile days to get somewhere to camp, then go blast single track with confidence and speed of a slightly heavy enduro. The factor is weight for it to be great at one or the other it has to be heavy for the road for stability and comfort over distance, or light for the trail to be nimble. the middle is always going to be a compromise.
After riding 701 Enduro conclusion is drawn to it´s future little brothers. Husqvarna 501 Norden and 501 Enduro would have a great chance to revolutionize the motorcycle market as true unicorns. Also GAS GAS 500-600 ADV Rally+DSB. With futuristic launches of , do-it-all - Omnisport machines like the 601 Norden and 601 Enduro.
sounds like you are looking for a Huky 701 LR with a rally tower/windscreen. I have a 690 with a rally kit and it carries 8gal of fuel, waaay too much fuel, and its very heavy in the dunes even with my front tanks empty I treat it as an ultralight adv bike, right now its about 370 wet. I really want a 450 RFR to shave about 70lbs off my 690 and still get over 70hp, even then my 500 carries 5gal of fuel with a rear tank, that is close to 220 miles of range depending on how I ride. people complain about maintenance intervals on bikes like EXCFs haven't ever done maintenance on a bike that's designed to get into easily. Working on a CRF300 or a WR250R would make me want the longest intervals possible too, but give me an hour and a handful of tools and I'll have washed the bike, oil changed, my valves done, and a clean filter in my EXCF.
You would think that, but try picking it up from the ground. The weight is high up and the bike lies very flat. A GS 1200 is easier to pickup up then a T7. A T5 is what we need, and make it a 2 cylinder for the long interval on the maintenance.
While I would be super excited for something like the AJP PR7, most people would not be. A single doesn't bother me at all. I ride a DR650 and have done big 12+ hr rides without ever thinking about the vibration but I also don't know what I'm missing. The short rides on my friends T7's have been insightful but didn't leave me questioning the single lyfe
My first ADV bike was a 1979 Yamaha MX100. Several bikes in between, on road, off road, an off road racing career, a street instructing career, then a T7 in 2022. Full circle in my view. Adventure tag, versus dual purpose, dual sport, and remembering the origins of this off road/on road phenomena....the Yamaha DT. Is it about what it is called? The type of riding style. I was 14 then, now 57, and I ride the same trails, gravel roads and highways. The only real difference is that the T7 doesn't fit into the back of RCMP "police" cruiser taking me back to my home to report me to my parents. Riding motorcycles, an adventure in itself. I get the point of this video though, it tackles the concept of 50/50, when there really isn't such a thing. I have DRZE since 2002, kept it to have as a pair with my T7, for the real off road trails. After all that, I conclude it does come down to having two bikes, no way around that in the end. The DRZE , in my humble view was the closest anybody has come to the 50/50. Sure one more gear would be nice, but then if that were the case, my tranny wouldn't have lasted as long as it did so.....I close with this.....ground clearance. The truest test of a bike's off road capability. Anything lower that 12'' is just not quite enough, heavy or not, and in that department you can't have one without the other... in other words, smaller engine. Imagine a T7 with proper ground clearance and it would be top heavy, even more than it already is...I do look forward to the Suzuki twin 800 success stories, but really watch now for the newer, smaller ADV bikes....of the future.....
I have had a bunch of dual sport and adventure bikes. I recently sold a couple of my bikes and picked up a lightly used KTM 690. It's everything that it's hyped to be. I've owned all the Japanese 650's, none are in this league. I had a few DRZ400's, no comparison. Like any "multiple use" bikes you're going to have to compromise one thing to excel more at another. I don't look forward to 400 miles of slab to get to the next BDR or get home from the last one on the 690, but I also don't dread it...and riding off road is way more fun on this than any 600 pound "Adventure" bike out there.
The 690 enduro doesn't flex like an enduro bike and it is not that buzzy. it also can go 10k kms between oil changes. don't let the "enduro" wording fool you. It is a road bike with off-road pedigree. And the lack of flex is notorious in technical terrain, when compared to a ktm500exc.
I think about something like the KTM EXC 450, Husqvarna 501/701 Enduro. They have terrible service intervals but slap an aftermarket tank on and you get 300 kilometer on a tank any day.
Great video I couldn’t agree more I have a bmw r1200gsa , a Honda crf 450L and a beta 300 two smoke . I love them all I used to ride my bmw off road kinda hard but it took a toll on my body. So I leave it for the long halls , camping trips and dirt roads and on a rare occasion two track . My crf450L and do alittle long haul to some great single track two track. So it goes either way . The beta 300 single track it’s an amazing bike it’s like a mountain bike with an engine but I agree there’s probably never gonna be one bike that can do it all great video thanks again
You make some good points about the modern market, however I’ve been a 50/50 rider in my younger years - but for that you have to accept machine compromises and you can have the 50/50 machine to match. I guess it’s what you in the US call a Dualsport. The weight 300 to 350 lbs but power 30 to 45 bhp. Available on the market (still) in the US you have the Honda XR650L. Put on a big tank, some tyres like Pirelli MT21 Rallycross, some (not much) soft luggage and off you go. Simple to maintain too. The closest I’ve had were the Honda XR400R which I rode across Europe from UK on and off-road, also Morocco. XR600R in California and Baja and a Gilera RC600R in UK. I could go pretty much anywhere on those bikes, save trials type sections. I had the XR400R geared up a bit to help on the road. Those XRs were bombproof motors too. Currently though, now after 53 years riding and 53 motorcycles I enjoy my Triumph GT Pro, 99% on-road. It’s got the 19” front wheel. I changed the tyres to Dunlop Mutants and the front size to 110/80 for more on road ability but still with the option to do the occasional fire-road. I guess it all comes down to what compromises you are prepared to accept. When I needed more trials type ability I went smaller and lighter like a 12 bhp 1986 Honda TLR250R. 6 speed box, twin fuel tanks, one below the seat, the other conventional with the airbox in the headstock. It would cruise at 60 mph on the road, but could climb things no rallye bike could. In fact I entered it in a Rallye in Wales and beat most of the big bikes - simply because the wee bike kept going when they couldn’t. Compromise and enjoy…
The answer is exactly that. Have more than one bike that can do what you're most likely to do. If you make long cross country trips that dip into the back country? Then get a KTM 890. Or if you mostly ride the back country and occasionally use tarmac to get there then get the KTM 690 or hell the 500.
It can exist. Yamaha could do it tomorrow. With their 700cc parallel twin out of the MT 07. Fitted with a lightweight compact Koenigsegg "Free Valve cylinder head. Aprilia SXV 550 V Twin. Could be modernised and increased in capacity.
Cool video, i guess everyone's riding styles are different, for me a husy 701 enduro with a set of supermoto wheels is perfect i feel like its as close to 50/50 as i can get
Good video and some good points, thanks. For me, any of my off-road riding should be on a lighter bike, so I agree that most of the "adventure bikes" need to lose some pork.
You are a bit of a dream breaker: I had 2 transalp's (one with 1 front disc and one with 2, if I remember). It was a fantastic bike for cities, countryside and a bit of travel not too far. I used to love them. Then i had a Varadero, big whale, not as fantastic on every point as the Transalp but very good for (looong) travel. North cape to south of spain. And again Brussels-Nordkapp (norway)-Brussels in 5 days. Wonderful and relax. Now, K have a 1250 RT 2022. Very good. Efficient, sporty if needed. A very capable bike overall. Love it. BUT ! Since I heard Honda brought us back a Transalp, I'm often thinking I'll buy one and keep the BMW. Thx for the video : it pushes me more to think a bit and try the Transalp for a short day, before ordering one. I'll keepyou informed.
Bought my 2020 YZ250X to be my adventure bike. 3.2gal IMS tank, poly skid plate, Acerbis bark busters, 8in front light bar and Acerbis rear taillight. I am meticulous on maintenance tho. I really want a rack like my BF's TW200 tho. I take it everywhere, from riding to work, cruise down dirt roads, tight slow technical and orv trails with my buddies quads and 450 dirtbikes and can hit Silverlake Sand Dunes and hit all of the hills.. I'm no pro by any means but the thing is awesomesauce! Mostly do back road cruising and tight technical so the dunes and pavement are a compromise, but i cant complain
I had such a 50 50 bike. In 1990 in Germany I got the MZ ETZ 250 - military version. It was a true all purposes bike. Strong as a 500 ccm standard bike, 1 cylinder, two-stroke engine, the chain protected in chain case and chain hoses, 2 individual seats with grab handle in between, more torque and less speed than the street version (140 km/h), but still up to 95 km/h on the road. 150 kg. You can lift the rear part of the motorcycle alone. Heavy weight to carry - no problem! Stable luggage racks on the sides. These bikes were last made 30 years ago but today have a higher market price than new equally powerful bikes from other manufacturers. New MZ ETZ 250 bike parts are still available.
There is one that is 300 lbs wet, 65hp tuned, increased oil capacity via frame storage, produces 200watts at the stator, has full dirtbike suspension, will go 110mph with the right gearing, expandable tank to 6+ gallons, durability wise is the equivalent to the Cummins engine, valves that are adjustable with a wrench and screw driver... The XR650R Ohh... you have to kick start it...
The ballance between light & nimble off road vs comfortable & stable on road to exist in one bike would perpetuate need for a tire change mid- adventure
CF moto has an awesome concept with the 270 degree 450 and I’d like to see almost a mini tenere, super light with a wide soft seat, windshield, large tank etc
Yeah I disagree on the 50/50 rider because I am that rider and I use my adv bike to ride around and to work and dirt bike during sunset and want a little more street focused dual sport that’s between a Drz and an adv. I don’t need something impossible something in the middle of that at a good price is what I’ve been waiting for. The 690 is a unicorn in my perspective but it’s very heavily priced.
When I watch a video like that, it makes me think that some people just don't want to be pleased. The idea that a big single is too 'buzzy' makes me think that the riders who think that need to swallow a tea spoon of cement and harden the fark up. The idea that the big single needs too much maintenance astounds me. The recommended service interval of the KTM 690 is longer than what I run my turbo diesel ute without changing oil, so again, harden up princess's and get on with it. Life is too short to be moaning about what we don't have. In saying this I have 3 bikes, as I believe in a horses for courses approach as a dirt rider who uses the road to link up the good bush riding. Love your video's by the way. Keep up the good work. Cheers from Australia.
Customers also didn't know they wanted an iPhone before it was born! 50/50 Honda CRF500L + CRF650L Africa Twin as well as in Enduro Sports version- That's motorcycle freedom!
It's why I own two bikes. Versys 1000 for touring and carving up corners. KTM 890 R for everything else. I actually prefer it this way, than having one bike for everything.
Service intervals can be reduced just by impinging parts with a nano coating that has been around since the 50s. Friction reduction and modeling with new materials solves most of the engine wear and frame design problems. It's not like all of the new tech is being used here.
The KTM 690 oil change schedule is 6000 miles. The 2019 and newer is pretty low vibration with the extra balance shaft. I also have a steering damper on mine and this works pretty well. The other major complaint is the close ratio transmission, which really only shows up in first gear. It has an easy hydraulic clutch, so get a shorty 2-finger clutch lever and problem solved. I also have a drz400 which is quite buzzy, but the KTM 690 is not bad at all.
Have you experienced any false neutrals? How do you feel about the chassis and the weight placement? Curious about the steering stabilizer, how does the character change on the highway at higher speeds and have you balanced the wheels?
@@dualsportscandinavia353 I have not experienced false neutrals, but I understand this does NOT happen on ALL of the 690s. Some videos suggest that a different shift lever helps to make the shifting crisper. Another video indicates that there is a fix with a new internal shift spring, that eliminates the false neutrals.
Most important is that a heavy more street oriented adv will eventually get you anywhere a 250 lbs off roader can go. You won't be jumping and it will take some more time but it will get you there (and back).
Hi there, In the year 1998, I have bought a new KTM 620 EGS-E Adventure model 1997. And I still ride this bike, it is the best dual sport bike, which is also suited for travelling, that I could find on the market. It has a 28 liter fuel tank, a dry weight of 166 kgs., about 30 cm suspension travel in front and rear. A strong rear frame allows you to mount luggage for long distance travelling. This was the first bike from KTM that was also suited for road use. The ride is quite "spartanish", lot of vibrations, super-hard seat. But I like it, simplicity, ligthweight, long range. Most customers here in Europe want to travel long distances at high speed on the highways, so KTM builds heavy bikes nowadays......
The reason most people won't buy a 690/701 is because it has a close ratio transmission, too little turning radius, no good way to carry luggage and a fuel tank that brings complaints from everyone for several reasons.
I wasn't afraid to take my ZX9R on dirt roads. You just have to move to the other side of the bike in turns like you're riding a dirt bike. I'll never forget when my buddy and I took a gravel road shortcut through Black Hills of SD on our trip from CA to Indy for the F1 race. We were power drifting around a big sweeper when we passed a bunch of National Guardsmen doing whatever they were doing in a flat area on the inside of the turn. They all did a double-take. LOL!!! That was the LAST thing they expected to see out there, two crotch rockets not giving a you-know-what! XD
Had a T7 just sold it but it was close to my unicorn. My buddy has a 690 and it is a fun bike to ride. My 450RL is a blast but sucks over 65 on the road. Thought the new Transalp was going to be the ticket but very disappointed. I might try the GasGas 700 next why not!!!
Your right. Its a marketing scam in the same way that we drive "trail ready" SUVs and trucks with an off-road package. Most don't use these vehicles off-road and when they do, the factory set-ups tend to break easily. Personally, I prefer ADV bikes because its nice to have a vehicle that is stable and able to handle poor road and climate conditions.
Love all of your content, but i think you really missed the mark on the KTM 690 enduro. It meets every one of the parameters you laid out. You said it would be a maintenance nightmare, but it has a 6k mile service interval. Said it would be buzzy as a single but with dual counterbalancers it’s as smooth as most twins that i have ridden even at highway speeds. Plus with an additional sumo setup and a little diet it’s kind of a do everything bike. I wonder, have you ridden the 690/701/700?
KTM announced the new 490 twin cylinder adventure and enduro models, which had to be ready for the end of 2022. Well, that was just before Covid-19... Also, such a unicorn motorcycle, from a little British company called CCM has existed (450cc, long range, good travel suspension, lightweight, etc)... but they stopped the production, because of ...low sales :)
Why not write to Ktm and ask if they can officially confirm that the 490 Adventure and Enduro have been discontinued as some Indian motorcycle related Yt channels claim. Come back and publish the answer here 🏁🛵
I did get the Gasgas ES700 and its have the same service time as my friends T7, im happy whit the Gasgas hade some few mods and it runs fine, i wish it got a nav tower standard whit windprotection that's on my wish list. changing the tires to Pirelli mt21 when the stock are worn out.
I have an AJP PR7- 600cc, long travel suspension, great brakes, comfortable seat, 365 lbs and I can ride it on an MX track, single track or hundreds of miles from home with camping gear strapped to the back. I’ve found my unicorn 🤩
husqvarna 701 that i use is pretty much it. You almost describe it exactly in your intro. I love mine. The problem with it is the overthetop electronics and dodads in the electrical system. If you dont like that get the tenere 700.
If a Japanese manufacturer made a 500cc 'Honda 300 Rally' equivalent, it would be a huge success... 50-60hp, ≥160kg, 6th 'tall' gear, range of 350-400km, services 8,000-10,000km- That'll be my everything bike.
Same here bud. There's still hope.
Count me in on that one
no you would find a reason not to buy it
Bring back the XR 650r
@@glennwr450 but 2cyl and e-start and and and
Exactly why I bought a DR650, mine is not buzzy, I love singles. Put $2,000 into it and it's perfect for me and all under $10,000. I don't need all the bs riding modes, abs or quick shift and I can figure out which gear I'm in without a special readout or a blinking light for gas level and I can fix anything on it without a computer and 6 month wait for parts. Over 250 mile range with my tank and a little piece of plastic above the headlight keeps wind off my chest, cruises freeway all day at 75. Maintenance? What maintenance.
I love singles
Yes Sir! DRs are such a great bike with just a few mods (which are fun to do)
If the Dr 650 was modernized with fuel injection, upgraded suspension, maybe a 6th gear and few other adjustments and suddenly you have the perfect adventure bike, at least for myself anyways. I will note the Dr isn't 70 horsepower, but it's so reliable that I don't care, besides it's got plenty of torque. In my opinion the current Dr 650 model which hasn't changed since 1996 with a few mods is one of the best 50-50 options out there. The potential for the Dr 650 to be better overall is certainly possible.
Yeah baby!!!! I agree, A good motor, a good fuel system, brakes, tranny, suspension and awesome frame with no electronics (except legal lights), one gauge (temp gauge to avoid nastiness) pick your tires.
I have to agree with the DR 650 fans here. I sold my DRZ 400 and my Triumph tiger and replaced both with the DR 650. While it is not as good a street/touring bike as the tiger, nor as good a dirt bike as the DRZ, it is truly a great motorcycle and a total hoot to ride, no matter where I ride it. That torquey motor is its own reward.
It is not about spending 50/50 time on- and offroad. It is about having a bike that can do both as good as possible. Even if I spend only 5% off my time off road, I want those 5% to be as enjoyable as possible.
yes but you are giving up a lot for something rarely used Making big sacrifices for 5% of your riding choice
That’s exactly how I’ve always seen it.
Exactly. The premise is false.
That's just another way of saying you want a 50/50 unicorn bike.
Bloody oath!
Great video with excellent points. I too have multiple bikes and agree with your general assessment. But you overlooked another opportunity that seems possible. A DRZ400 with a 6 speed transmission and fuel injection. That's probably why you have the Honda 450.
Thank you Jeff
Ya we never went to the moon! So I guess we are screwed.
Agreed
Yes. We have a goon! Seriously, we had a good compromise with the Honda XL/XR 500 models. Later, replaced by the XL/XR600-650 models (depending on the markets). I had tons of fun riding my XR500 in on/off road conditions. This changed when I fitted the XR engine in a C&J frame. Then it became a pure off-road bike.
CRF ~400cc Rally ~40hp with better suspension than 300 rally and similar service intervals for 2 or 3k more. I think it would sell. Don't need a twin, just decent balancing.
Thanks for watching
This
I purchased my 2012 F800 with this in mind. I cut a bunch of weight, added 21” x 18” steel wheels, let Racetech create great suspension. I had about the closest thing I could get my hands on. I’ve been enjoying it for a long time now and it just keeps on going. In my garage it’s my dirt bike.
I'm pretty happy with the KTM 690 Enduro R. Some mods are needed to help it be the bike I want it to be but it was pretty close right out of the crate. Coming off an extremely moded KLR, the KTM is light years ahead of it. It vibrates a LOT less and oil change intervals at 6,200 miles don't seem too often to me. I will still change it every 4k miles or so but I would do the same on a DR or KLR as well. I get the point though. I have 6 bikes and they all serve a purpose. Keep up the videos. I enjoy watching.
I think the 690 is my next bike
I have owned a klr, 690, t7 and Ktm 500exc. The 690 is as close as you can get to the unicorn. But man do I love my 500exc. If I have learned anything, you need multiple bikes.
My friend's 690 SM had the frame crack. No reason. No crashes, the guy is not big on wheelies. Just broke next to where the frame slider is. If KTM's were reliable...
If you put bark busters with the built in handle bar weights on your singles you kiss most of the vibration goodbye.
I have a exc500 and absolutely love it! I don't think I'll ever get rid of it.
@@archiewilson4943 the sliders are why it cracked. Harmonics of that weight vibrating. Widely known in the 690/701 sm world
Chinese companies like CFMoto may surprise us and get closer to a unicorn bike. Your definition of a unicorn is different than how I and many would define it though. For me, it would be something like a WR450R with a 4-5 gallon tank, basic windscreen, comfortable seat, 40HP, sub 350lb weight, and service intervals similar to the WR250R I currently own.
I wonder if everyone will not buy the Chinese bike
So true about the WR450!
I’m buying the Kove 450 Rally for that reason. 370lbs wet with an 8 gallon fuel tank, 51hp 450cc single with liquid cooling, ABS, and 11 inches of suspension travel. Its the closest to the unicorn we will get
@@austinbauman3818 Makes a lot of sense in terms of specs. If it's reliable and delivers, you will have a lot of fun with that! Braaaaaaaaap!
I share your vision of the unicorn bike, as well as your belief that the Chinese will probably give us a lightweight ADV bike with enough HP to comfortably cruise on the highway when needed. The reason the big Japanese and European manufacturers refuse to give us the bike we want is because they don't want to detract from their big ADV bike sales. They belatedly and reluctantly added a small ADV bike to their lineup but positioned it not to be the best it could be, but rather to be a beginner bike to get customers on the upgrade path to their $15K bloated mid size or $25K full size maxi bloated ADV pig. I love my G310GS, but it's really singing at 75 MPH on the highway, however the real crime against humanity is the 2.9 gallon fuel tank. That's an unforgivable sin on an ADV bike.
After exhaustive research I’ve come to the conclusion that the only answer to this dilemma is a five bike stable.
Yes lol
Very true. I'm selling my Tenere and get 1) an Africa Twin and 2) a WR450F. Both great in their field whilst the Tenere is questionable in both unless you are Pol Tarres...
Ya, I would have to agree, I have 2, at one point had 3, but in the end, more money,more bikes an bigger stable is the only solution to this problem. You go to bed and wake up thinking...which bike am I going to ride today.....
how do you swap to your offroad bike when you took your touring bike to get to the trail lol.
Like any enthusiast sport...skiing, cycling, moto, etc.
your equipment count can always be
N + 1
Xr650r with a magic button and detachable subframe. The 690 has a pretty long maintenance interval. The small gas tank is the biggest hindrance.
This is why I'm old school at this point and ride two bikes: 2005 R1200GS and a 2022 Husqvarna FE 501S. That combo was solid in 2005 and it's solid now. I'd love an 890 Adventure R, but then I'd have to look at it and it would be worse than both bikes I have.
There have been a few that came close. The old KTM 640 Adventure had a 7 gallon tank and weighed about 400 lbs fully fueled. It had a payload capacity of around 440 lb and pillion pegs. It had a great long-travel suspension. It was related to the 660 race bikes that KTM used to win the Dakar circa 2000. Shortcomings were a minimal wind screen and a very buzzy engine. It didn't sell very well -- in fact, I never even heard of the thing until long after it went out of production.
Currently the AJP PR7 is not far off from unicorn status. It weighs about 364 lb wet. It has a 4.5 gallon under-seat tank that keeps the weight centralized. More than 11" of suspension travel. It has reasonably long maintenance intervals and it has a rally-tower wind screen. It is a thumper, so it won't be as smooth as some twins, but the biggest issue is that it isn't street legal everywhere.
As for the KTM 690 Enduro ... it's a good bike, but KTM (for some inexplicable reason) has steered it away from unicorn land. It has one of the best thumpers ever made (powerful and with long maintenance intervals), a decent suspension, and a good frame. But, it doesn't have a real sub-frame to support luggage, it doesn't have even a rudimentary wind screen, and it doesn't have a wide-ratio transmission. That last one is a real crime, because the 690 is light enough to handle moderately-difficult single track, but you can't gear it down enough for single-track without making it scream on the highway.
I used to own one. "Buzzing" is an understatement and the oil change with the oil running in the frame was a pain in the behind. I now own a 500EXC and it's better everywhere sans the fuel range and payload capacity. Like he said, everything's a compromise.
Love my 2007 KTM 640 Adventure. Never getting rid of it.
People forget about the yamaha xt 660E
@@alessandrogomesaraujo4206 I don't see a 660E anywhere ... there was the 660Z, which is similar to the KTM 640 Adventure, except with 3" less suspension travel, 10% less power, a gallon less fuel, and 50 lb more curb weight. It did have a better wind screen though, and the engine was probably less vibey.
@@C_R_O_M________ I've owned a 640 since 2003 and the vibration keeps me off of it unless I have it in the California desert where it's amazing. I had a 450 EXC and it was great off road but horrible on the street. I've had various dirt bikes and currently have a KTM 350xc-f. I'd love to replace my 640 with a modern day version. I don't want to be putting a kit on a 690 enduro.
When I look at adventure bike videos, I want to try them. I then realize, if I bought one, I would still ride my dirt bike more, because that is what I enjoy more. Unless you are Chris Birch, who is sponsored by KTM, most of us will not enjoy an adventure bike in the dirt. They are too heavy. Thanks for your video.
Yes I tried to be Chris Birch on my Tiger 800 and all I did was crash and waste my riding time trying to pick the bike up
Yep , balance the wheels on your enduro bike , fit a big tank. If ya haven’t already 😉.
Best adventure bike you well get if ya don’t ride 500k tar sections.
@@benlondon8467 So so true. And it's there, just a few mods and you have that "giant black hole in the bike galaxy" bike!
@@benlondon8467 Sounds like my DR650!😁
This is why I chose the Husky 701 SM as my ride. I am and always will be predominantly a road rider. I like the idea of offroading, but apart from the 1 or 2 gravel roads I ride on a year, it makes no sense for me to get anything more dirt biased. The 17s on the supermoto with some nice 80/20 ADV tires is plenty enough for the "offroad" that I do while giving little away on the road. That's where my balance is for me and makes sense for me.
Admittedly though, I am thinking going back to a full road sport touring set up. That's just more what I truly am, but still am enjoying the 701. Some of these ADV bikes with some 17s slapped on would be a greatly welcome addition. KTM 890 sport tourer anybody?
I agree on the technical points of the difficulty in manufacturing a sub 400# twin. It's gonna be real difficult while keeping it reasonably priced and maintaining reliability. I disagree somewhat on the 50/50 rider. It's not the amount of time I spend on each surface (dirt/asphalt), it's that I want to bike to perform (as close to) optimally under most conditions, even if it's more like 70/30 (dirt/street). As an example - I did 1,400 miles across SW/SE Oregon back in September. I planned a route that stayed on as much dirt as possible. But, I did have to bail out on the pavement a couple of times and covered 100-150 miles or so at a time. Having a twin (Yamaha T-7) makes that so much more enjoyable than a single. Having that same capability on the road, but about 75# less weight on the dirt would open up even more terrain. If someone does make a sub 400# twin, then I think the horsepower will be where the tradeoff is made, say a 500-600 cc with 60 or so hp.
That too to make that bike with longer service intervals would be too expensive
Great video.
I am not a 50/50 rider, and I will never be one, but I would love to see something like CRF 450 Rally (that has 300 Rally service intervals) or T5. I would buy that bike without hesitation.
Thanks for watching
@@BornAGoon My pleasure. I really enjoy your channel. Cheers!
Stoked! Write to Yamaha and suggest the Tenere 500 as an extended model series to the Tenere 155, 700 and 900. Come back and report 🏁
Great video. I am struggling with this as I am sure many are. I think the right answer for me is a solid dual sport with a larger fuel tank and soft luggage for those times when I want to travel with it.
Great video mate. I think the latter point is the most likely. In my humble opinion the reason this bike doesn't exist is because we all think we are better riders than we actually are. The reality is every bike in production is more capable than 99% of the riders. The bikes are not the limiting factor. Case in point Pol Tarres finishing top 10 in Erzberg on a light weight enduro rocket ship and 77th on a Teneree 700.
We want to much out of our bikes. The reality is the light weight adventure bike does exist albeit with minor modification. KTM 690, AJP PR7, SWM 500 (wider range gearbox) , WR 450. The bikes are not the limiting factor, we are. Having said that KTM should produce the 690 enduro and husqvaran the 701 rally and problem solved.
We all have so many complaints because we are soft as ferk. Oh my bike is to heavy (get stronger), oh my suspension is to soft ( lose weight) oh my bike doesn't handle well enough (get better) oh this single is buzzy (harden up). Rant over lol.
Amen to that, brother.
My unicorn bike is a 400-500 cc single cylinder ADV bike, sub 400 pounds, 40-50 HP, $8000 or less, but with good suspension and ground clearance, a 5-6 gallon fuel tank, tubeless spoke wheels and long service intervals. Bonus points for a proper bash plate and engine protection, serious brush guards on the grips, a comfortable seat, large pegs for standing, and a large rear rack. Now that I'm in my 60s I ride back roads and a little mild off road, but would like to be able to take a highway for a get-home-quick option when a ride goes off the rails without red lining the engine for an hour. Modern thumpers have good counter balancers. They aren't as smooth as a twin, but they're smooth enough.
From what I can see, this bike doesn't exist because of marketing weasels. The big manufacturers see their reluctant late addition small ADV bikes as beginner bikes to get customers on the upgrade path to their $15K to $20K "proper" ADV bikes. They don't want to make a great smaller ADV bike because it would detract from their big ADV bike sales rather than add to them. The problem isn't engineering. The problem is marketing. That's often the way of the world.
The closest I've found to my unicorn bike is the BMW G310GS. I'm very happy so far, but I'd like a bit more power for the occasional highway riding that I do, although it doesn't seem to mind me ringing it out for an hour to sprint home. The fatal flaw in the baby GS is the 2.9 gallon fuel tank on an ADV bike. That's unforgivable. It should be twice that capacity.
Nice work. But I do have to say... I think your 70-90 hp benchmark is overkill. If your bike weights 400lbs or less, than 40 hp will propel you enough to overtake whenever you want ( normal circumstances) ,and you will accelerate faster than MOST cars.The DR650 fits the bill. And it's cheaper than your 5 figure. And yes I was scammed with my 1st bike when I bought a cb500x thinking I was going to enjoy it offroad. Got a DR now! Cheers
I too have DR650. I saved so much on the purchase price, I upgraded the carburetor to a pro jet kit, Leo Vince exhaust, Cogent Mojave suspension. Easily cruises 75 mph. But can go 95+ for passing. Of course it’s a dirt monster!
Could be the T7 dynos at less than 70hp I think
I love my DRZ400 with big tank, slightly lowered and geared up... no trials, MX or freeways, but everything else. Just start by finding tires that both have great asphalt and mud performance...
It's so frustrating but you're spot on.
yes it is
The ktm 690 isn't buzzy. Oil change intervals are 6k miles. Its the unicorn you speak of, but too heavy for ohv trails in the pnw. I hope they make a 390 enduro that weighs less than 300lbs and costs less than $8,000.
If you have multiple bikes you’ve already failed the test of being a 50/50 rider. But for those of us who can only afford/want one bike that does both well, that’s the market. By having multiple bikes you’re more in the enthusiast category, and therefore disqualify yourself from needing a 50/50 machine. The market is for people that don’t have the coin, desire, space to have multiple machines sitting around that we can jump on when the need arises.
Have you considered a Dr.Z 400sm? This is my 8th motorcycle - and It is way better off and on road than I am. Something to think about.
Cheers!
I’m in the market, and I already own three bikes. The unicorn bike I have in mind probably will never exist. But if it did, I would still own multiple bikes, because I enjoy the uniqueness of them all. 🤘
Bring back the 2 Stroke with modern fixings! It’ll Cut the weight, Add exhaust scavenging or supercharging. Make it a twin 350 or 400 with an oil sump or oil injection with a relatively large gas tank and a way to put on luggage.
I think sub 400 is definitely possible with touring in mind and will handle happily off road.
Unfortunately with the EPA 2 strokes will be gone soon
@@BornAGoon Sadly, if only our government organizations focused more on building and growing habitat for wildlife like that Indian man who planted a forest to stop erosion, instead of taking away our fun, I think we’d be in a better spot.
At the rate we’re going they’re gonna try to take away our 4 strokes and tell us we can’t charge our electric vehicles because of electricity shortages…oh wait.
Should be able to build up your Honda for light adventure with 20L onboard around 330lbs. Probably get a KTM500 built up similarly closer to 300lbs. Would sure be sweet to see Yamaha step up to the table with a dual sport WR500. Thanks for keeping the dream alive.
Thanks for watching
Very well said but there is still another dimension. For example, if I wanted to ride between Telluride and Ouray, I could do it without ever leaving pavement, or I could do it without ever leaving the dirt. So that is the choice you refer to. But certain choices are made for us instead. For example, I could choose a dirt bike for the street but only one that has a license plate, or I could choose a street bike for the dirt but only so long as it has the needed traction and clearance. So either way, you make a choice to start out on the street but at some point the trail is presented to you. Or you start on the trail, but at some point you have to ride on the paved roads. So the unicorn everyone really wants, is a street legal machine that go as deep offroad as desired. Sometimes that machine won't take you as deep as you want. Sometimes the machine that can take you as deep as you want won't take you on the highway. So the choice between 50-50 or 70-30 is a moving target, for everybody, and everybody looks for the bike they are capable of handling everywhere they want it to go, and they want it carry them comfortably as far and as fast as they would like. Therefore the perfect unicorn bike is a 200/200/200 machine with heated seats and grips that weighs nothing, 13 inches of clearance that you can easily plant both feet down, that's 200 mph, 200 mile range, 200 lbs.
KTM500EXCF is the closest I've come to finding a perfect bike. Extra set of SM wheels is fun.
I feel that way about my 450RL
Agreed, I have one and it just needs a bigger oil and gas tank to be a great adventure bike.
Exactly, I run an old 450 EXC for fun, for real fun my Aprilia RXV 550, twin cylinder, 126kg full of fuel and 72hp supermoto spec engine. It can be done!
Honda already has the perfect platform to build up into the unicorn adventure bike. The xr650l. With a lower seat height, a larger tank, fuel injection and borrowed fairing styling from its little 300 sister honda could tick all the boxes we are asking for. Also the xr650s existing culture and wide aftermarket selection this bike would be a hit among the adventure community. A capable bike that out performs the kawasaki klr, while undercutting the price point of the yamaha T7 and suzuki V strom.
The Yamaha TW200 missed all the criteria, but yet gets the job done and is fun doing it!
This video is so spot on! The adventure motorcycle market is a marketing scam. Just my little humble opinion, adventure should be in the soul of the rider, not the bike he or she rides. Unless someone lives in the middle in the Outback or Patagonia, the rider profile of 50/50 will probably not apply. Bottom line, be happy to be riding on whatever terrain you have available! Great video Mr. Goon!
Cheers!
Thank you No truer words have been spoken
I think an adventure bike would shine on vacations and weekend trips, where you travel far but also do trails. If just used for commuting, there are better options.
My only gripe with the KTM 690 is the fact it has no fuel gauge. You have to rely on the trip meter.
Too hard to reset after a fill?
@@IRQ1Conflict I guess not
AJP PR7 looks so good on paper.... Just don't know a whole lot about them.
I tried to get one to test but no go
I bought one and I love it. The handling and suspension is very good. The engine has plenty of power for highway cruising, and plenty of low end grunt to lug around off road. It is easy to plate in my state, but not in others.
Even though the Aprilia Tuareg 660 is just over 400lbs, it is still a good value and close to all the specs that everyone is looking for. I was kind of disappointed when the Transalp 750 when came out more road oriented.
450 lbs / 204.11 kg wet and is way too heavy offroad! What is missing is a DS-Enduro +ADV Rally bike between 300Rally/DRZ - DR650,XR650R/L, Fe501 - 701 Enduro etc.
I recently bought a Honda 450L and am in the process of turning it into a lightweight ADV. Aside from the Kove 450 (which is not yet street-legal as I write this), I think it's about as close as you can get to the right platform for building the bike I want-namely, something I could do a BDR on by myself and enjoy the experience, rather than just survive it. I intended to do this on my Africa Twin but after a few reality checks, it's just too much damned bike. I realized that I could either have a true lightweight that's more fatiguing on the freeway, or a big bike that's MUCH more liable to injure me or get stuck on a difficult trail (and less enjoyable regardless). For me that was an easy choice, but it's certainly a tradeoff. Having no prior experience with dirt bikes, the weight of this thing is a revelation. I'm sorry, but your T7 or 890 or any other "middleweight" ADV is still a heavy-ass bike. Yeah, Pol Tarrés can rip on it like it's a 250 or a Trials bike, but are you Pol? I'm not. Multi-cylinder ADV's are easily the most versatile motorcycles. They're a great choice for any trip on quasi-maintained roads (paved or otherwise). But are you in good enough shape to pick one up 5 or 6 times, fully-laden, when it's 100º in the desert and your choices are to keep riding or call for LifeFlight? I'm not. And even if I were, it doesn't sound like fun.
It's going to take some mods, but if you buy one used as I did, many of those have probably already been done. My bike is currently ~280lb and 50HP or so; the weight and power are certainly there. Stock suspension is far more capable than I'll ever be. There are aftermarket fuel tanks up to 5 gallons, so the range can be had. The frame has proven sturdy enough to carry a reasonable BDR load. And honestly, it's not as bad on the freeway as I thought it would be. Would I choose it for a 1000-mile highway journey? Heck no. Can I deal with it for a couple hours? Sure. And it's an absolute BLAST lane-splitting through traffic.
You can't have it all, and with this bike, reasonable maintenance intervals are the major thing you can't have. You just have to accept that as the price of entry. Oil changes are a 10-minute job if you get a skid plate that allows access to the drain plug. And it only takes 1.2qt of oil, so they aren't expensive either. I can live with it, for everything else I'm getting.
I want the 50/50 unicorn twin, and I want the 300 mile range. But I'll probably settle for a T7 Raid.
I want 50/50 triple/ Omnisport single, so far all ADVs have been overweight with big twins and become heavy pigs off road. Either way, Rieju Aventura 500 Legend and the KOVE 450RALLY set the benchmark. But have to settle for a WR450F, DRZ, XR650R, DR650, G650X Challange, Fe501, 500 Exc or 690/700/701 Enduro.
i have sold T7 after one season
A BMW F650GS twin cylinder weighs just under 400lbs dry, makes 71hp (allegedly), and MSRP would be $12,727USD in 2023 with inflation from the 2010 MSRP. Is this not the unicorn you seek?
For me the focus should be on calming the vibes of a thumper. This and more oil capacity. The parallel twins all have the weight in the wrong spot. 500excf is so close to the unicorn.
True that! There is nothing between CRF300L/Rally, DRZ400 and DR650, XR650L, 690/700/701 Enduro. WR450F, CRF450L/RL, Fe501, 500Exc is close but longer intervals...
WOW, great video. I originally thought the manufactures refused to make the Unicorn bike because they would shrink their own market. Meaning, they can sell you one bike not the two that are required to satisfy the 50-50 rider, but your logic and knowledge of the motorcycle rider completely convinced me that your correct. There is no 50-50 rider!!!! Genius !!!!
Aprillia's 550 RXV was as close as this earth 🌍 will ever see to a perfect design. It needed a Dakar Rally fairing and larger tank, but the H.O. Twin is what is needed. I would also like to see a front wheel electric motor for slow speed acceleration or off the line torque and regenerative braking.
Too bad they stopped making it
@@BornAGoon the other issue is curb weight includes fuel. This means that the larger the range the heavier it appears to be. These bikes should always be measured using "dry weight".
@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080
Bmw G650 X Challange is also a genuine bike that can travel around the world as well as handle offroad trails.
KTM 390 ADV is as close as you will get off the shelf; it’s more road based than many want, but put nobblies and a smaller front sprocket and it’s better off-road. The engine is great fun on the road.
I like the 390
Wet weight 379 lbs (172 kg) is way to heavy for serious 50/50, Was surprised how bad the components (brakes clutch etc) were and how poorly the chassis was balanced. The chassis felt clumsy and heavier than 660 Tuareg, T7. It also lacks suspension, spoked wheels, low end grunt, high ground clearance and so forth! 490 Adventure + Enduro might not have been a bit better.. If Norden 501 and 501 Enduro can get Dna from Fe350-701 Enduro, then maybe there is some hope!
Take a 690/701 motor, put a wide ratio transmission in it. Put that motor in the old 640 adventure frame (with attachment points for lightweight luggage), with the good suspension from their dirt bikes and people will be lined up to buy it.
The 640 is a gem. I'm with this 100%.
except that the 640 shook like a wet dog on steroids on the highway
I liked the way you did this video. Great edit. Thumb up and subscribed.
you have to have 2 bikes unfortunately (I actually love having 2). I use the KTM 500 for overnighters closer to home or more technical, but its terrible on the highway. I recently got the desert x which is the most fun I've ever had on a motorcycle . It feels so light and flickable that I'm using it more than my KTM - and on the road it feels like a sport bike. I put the decat pipe on as well as silencer (SC Project) and it took an additional 12 pounds off the weight which is now just 20 pounds heavier than my old T7 but with a lot more power and way better suspension.
Yes you need 2 They want us to buy 2 lol
I just want them to put twin tanks of the 450L and a rally tower for styling. Call it the 450L rally... then make it around the tenere price tag. I'd buy a single with twin tanks and rally looks. Hell yeah... unfortunately if I want a rally bike atm, I'm looking at spending 30k.
The 2019+ KTM 690R has a revised engine and is pretty darn smooth. I think this is a perfect light weight adventure bike with the proper setup. Hopefully KTM we'll realize this too
Its close
Once you get on a smooth bike that glides the highway you realize how not smooth that KTM is. There are times when I'll tour 9+hrs a day and the vibrations add up...
Being a new owner of the KTM 890 ADV R, I realize now this bike is capable of anything! However, at my age and sustaining a major injury; I don't do all the daring stuff that the bike is capable of. The main thing I dread when riding hard is being able to pick it up when I crash. I usually crash at least twice when riding hard. With my luggage it's probably ~ 500 lbs. I'm a strong burly guy, but 500 lbs is a lot to pick up alone (multiple times). I agree with you in terms of a single cylinder vs. a twin cylinder. It definitely needs to be a twin cylinder. Somewhere in between the 690 R and 890 R weighing ~ 400 lbs with luggage would be ideal.
Thats too much crashing.....isn't it?
@@davidcolinfisher1034 Yes it is! I crash a lot mainly and loose dirt and sand. There are areas to ride close to my house, but it is sandy with lots of washes. I did get ran off the road on Saturday in the mountains and crashed. That was fun. The kid that ran me off the road helped me lift my bike back up.
I ride in SW Washington. Have put 8k miles on a DRZ 400 I bought in 2016. It’s about 50 hwy miles to get out there. A lot of the time I ride alone. Always thinking about different bikes but every time I crash, I’m always reminded why the DRZ. It doesn’t do anything really well but it does pretty much everything. And that last 50 miles of pavement on the way home after a long day or 3, sucks.
It looks like so many of us would like to see a crf450l rally with similar maintenance intervals as the 300l , but I think that Honda knows that if they bring that bike, it will affect the sales of the 300l and maybe the sales of the 450rl and besides that,it looks most manufactories need an engine that can be used in at least 3 different models to make profit out of their investments
Cheers 🏍️
Thats what we want maybe soon we will see it
My local Honda dealer said we wouldn't see the Transalp 750 in the US until 2025, if ever.
OMG I hope that isnt true damn
My 790AdvR comes darn close to unicorn. I shed some good kgs and now it's ~195kg with fuel and with enduro tires plus tubliss system, suspension tuning, steering damper. This bike over terrain I am riding is not performing worse than dual sports. On the other hand I have no problem riding 140km/h on tar except maybe for tire wear. I had a chance to compete on it in Rally event and my special stages times were equal to average time in single cylinder class. Also rode with buddy of mine on EXC-F350 and he stayed behind for the most part. In a bit more difficult terrain I was able to ride over everything he was. Situation would change in mountains and rocky terrain, but that is not where I ride. In sandy/forrest, flat terrain it is my unicorn and I recommend to anyone both the bike and mods
That is a wicked bike
This is my choice as well, what mods did you do to get the weight down?
@@kamax7672 lipo battery, decat&muffler, narrow rims with tubliss, single disc, EVAP, and removed lots of unnecessary crap.
I'm a literal 50/50 rider lol. I live off grid up in the mountains. Exactly half my commute is steep dirt twisties that are often washed out or blocked by landslides or snow. The other half is a twisty paved canyon run down into town.
Usually i end up riding 50/50 in the area as it's a pretty even mix of paved and dirt roads out in the valley. 5 miles or so of pavement to get out of town, a 10 mile stretch up to another 5-10 mile pavement stretch then more dirt across the valley until i hit the paved section leading back into the mountains.
It's like y'all forget rural Arizona exists lol, i prefer to ride on dirt, the longer the ride i do the more the dirt % rises but as a daily commute it's literally the mythical 50/50 ride.
DRZ500, 6 speed transmission would be a contender
If only Suzuki would make it
Miss your vids. I love watching them. Cheers!
Some good points... however I think the market has come close a few times and those bikes have sold well. T7, 500x, 390adv, DRZ400, and various 650 dual sports are all great examples.
I dont think the "Unicorn" necessarily needs to be 600+ CC. It just needs to be a competent offroad machine still capable of Decent freeway riding.
And to that end I think the sweet spot truly lies in the 400-500cc range. Either a big single or small Ptwin.
Rumors have circled about an NX500 Dominator in the works. Wich if it follows through with its traditional Enduro frame with fairings could very well be that bike.
KTM is also said to be working on a 490ADV Ptwin that could hit the mark as well.
True maybe its not build because of money it would ruin sales
I would say 500-600 is the sweet spot.50-60hp, higher torque with flat curve. So that it can do 130kmph on a highway with a passenger. Electronically adjustable suspension to behave well on road and off. Around 450lbs/200kg to make it realistic. I think the required power is probably the most overrated thing out of the other criteria.
Honda 500x kind of fits those specs, but the frame, suspension, cast wheels and engine are very road oriented. I want a sturdier frame that doesn't use the engine for support. 20+cm ground clearence. Wire wheels. Less power more torque engine with lower revs. I was hoping for something like that from the transalp. But they created a Hornet with bigger wheels. IMO they don't build it because it would mean a completely new platform. New frame, new engine. They rather slightly adjust what they have.
They almost nailed with Tenere 700. It could have a bit lower center of gravity. And if they made it 500cc with 50hp and slightly ligher, it would be ideal.
@@vojtal182 Rally Raid conversion of Honda500x gets you closer
@@vojtal182 200 kg is too much! The old 950 Super Enduro with a 1000CC engine (LC8) weighted less than 200Kg. My 500 EXC weights 130kg and if it had a bigger oil and gas tank it'd be the perfect bike for me. The power is enough. Almost the same power to weight ratio as my old 990 ADV R.
@@C_R_O_M________ Have had all three at the same time, now just the 990A and 500EXCF. Compromises across the board.
The 950SE was my favourite but to get any kind of mileage (~120miles) I ran the Exxon Valdez tank which just made it super top heavy and dangerous on single track. The head angle also was more appropriate for high speed desert run than tech single track. That fueling though was a beautiful experience, silky smooth. Carb maint wasn't fun, it sat on the kitchen table for months while I tried to figure it out.
The 990A works great on roads (crossed the US on it) once you deal with the buffeting and 150-180 mile range and does easy single track but it's a heavy beast picking it off the ground with luggage.
My adventurized 500EXCF is my unicorn bike, as close to perfect as possible for out west. A 200 mile tank, comfortable (relative) seat, ecu, other mods. Can do single track and 100mph sprints on tarmac, but I'm not doing 200 miles on the road without doing some stretching. Change the oil every few thousand miles and it's good to go.
Is it perfect? No, but it's close.
Very cool video! :D
BUT I think you are being a bit "too greedy" with the HP demand... 70-90hp is too much in my opinion. I think it would be more reasonable to ask for a twin that is 50-70hp. That way:
1) it would be easier to stay under the the 400lbs mark
2) it would be easier to stay on the cheaper side
3) The power would be easier to manage on such a lightweight bike (most people cant really handle the 690, its too ready to race)
4) It would have its clear niche, instead of being a little bit of everything. I believe we desperately need something between the CRF300L and the 690, in terms of HP
Keep up the AWESOME work man :)
Ah! I want to throw anotnher hat in the ring :D
I agree with you that a "true 50-50" bike doesnt make a lot of sense, cause that pratically means it is dull/limited on both environments.. but if then we consider 70-30% bikes, or 30-70% bikes, then perhaps things would make more sense.
The thing is... nowadays you have 29391 big/med adventure bikes that fit that 70/30 category (Onroad / Offroad), but almost no bike exists nowadays that fits the 30/70 category, perhaps except the CRF300L, that ultimately "fails" for being so weak.
At least here in europe, we lack dual-sports... and I dont mean "performance dualsports" like the ones that are so common on the US, I mean old school dualsports like the DR650, the DRZ400, the TT600, etc... if they could make something like that with a twin, and under 400lbs, that would be sweet!
So basically an offroad dedicated bike that is sturdy and big enough to withstand (with limited but some enjoyiment and confort) a long stretch on the road
@@RouteNRide that would be awesome..but personally i would prefer 21". We already have more than enough "meh" offroad motorcycles :o
@@RouteNRide i am not worried about crossing a log, i am worried about the general feel of having a bigger wheel. Those few % of difference affect how everything feels, from easy stuff to hard stuff, and because i am an offroad oriented person, i want the best setup possible. If i see a 19" wheel i know for a fact that bike's offroad performance was compromised and usually a lot more compromises will be done.
If 19" is so good, they would be using it in enduro/mx/baja competitions, wouldnt they? Save some weight, lower cg...
Hi Mate-Rider,
I want try to reset my backround to reborn and giving importance to things they didn't have it ...
... it's all in our mind / WE MUST CHANGE ( My 44th Bike , after the last Africa Twin Adv Sport 2018, just little heavy , and Husky 701 (Fragile cams) it's a new Honda 300 L Rally 2022 //// It was not easy but I had prepared myself 😘 and after 4 months and 8000 km, I believe I'm reaching my balance now //// YES I spend other 4000€ in addition for many parts / suspension + exhaust + rims + remap ECU + footpegs and other parts , but I have my little UNICORN now ..... and I'm HAPPY but we must reset.
Maybe we really have to lose something to earn something else in a new unknown horizon,
Sorry for my english
Luca (Milan Italy)
Thanks for watching and commenting Luca
Crf 300 rally costs about 20k usd in Nepal 😢
Because a lightweight and reasonable price adventure bike will fucked up their bottom line since all of the other line up will be relegated to nothing. Imagine, for example, a CB500x motor with a body like the CRF300L, abs, 21-inch front wheel, and no crap electronics, at 7000 USD. No one will go for the ktms or the teneres unless they need the HP, and let's face it, most traveling adventure riders won't need more than 50 hp.
Thanks for watching and commenting Pablo
My KTM 790 R has been a great blend. I realize it’s 450 lb. + bike but for the mountains of Idaho, it’s been fantastic! It’s the closest unicorn bike for me.
In my search for the unicorn ive settled on three sizes. a wr450, dr650, and super tenere. The dr650 is the closest to a true 50/50 bike, took alot of adjustments and farkles but it is the true 50/50 rider bike, which being that is what made me go and get the other two. Because it did it all but was not great on long trips and on more technical trails it was a bit heavy and clumsy compared to trail bikes.
50/50 =100 it is a compromise in the name alone, it will never be the best at all but good for both.
The unicorn would be a 100/100 or as close to that as you could get, they dont want a 50/50 bike thus the quest for the impossible?
If they could make that unicorn a bike. To me it would be you could comfortably ride 500+ mile days to get somewhere to camp, then go blast single track with confidence and speed of a slightly heavy enduro.
The factor is weight for it to be great at one or the other it has to be heavy for the road for stability and comfort over distance, or light for the trail to be nimble. the middle is always going to be a compromise.
I wish they made that WR 450 street legal Jdub
After riding 701 Enduro conclusion is drawn to it´s future little brothers. Husqvarna 501 Norden and 501 Enduro would have a great chance to revolutionize the motorcycle market as true unicorns. Also GAS GAS 500-600 ADV Rally+DSB. With futuristic launches of , do-it-all - Omnisport machines like the 601 Norden and 601 Enduro.
sounds like you are looking for a Huky 701 LR with a rally tower/windscreen. I have a 690 with a rally kit and it carries 8gal of fuel, waaay too much fuel, and its very heavy in the dunes even with my front tanks empty I treat it as an ultralight adv bike, right now its about 370 wet. I really want a 450 RFR to shave about 70lbs off my 690 and still get over 70hp, even then my 500 carries 5gal of fuel with a rear tank, that is close to 220 miles of range depending on how I ride. people complain about maintenance intervals on bikes like EXCFs haven't ever done maintenance on a bike that's designed to get into easily. Working on a CRF300 or a WR250R would make me want the longest intervals possible too, but give me an hour and a handful of tools and I'll have washed the bike, oil changed, my valves done, and a clean filter in my EXCF.
Besides the KTM;
Yamaha Tenere700 is pretty close to a lightweight adventure bike
You would think that, but try picking it up from the ground. The weight is high up and the bike lies very flat.
A GS 1200 is easier to pickup up then a T7. A T5 is what we need, and make it a 2 cylinder for the long interval on the maintenance.
@@himydad1499 T5 won't be any lighter.
While I would be super excited for something like the AJP PR7, most people would not be. A single doesn't bother me at all. I ride a DR650 and have done big 12+ hr rides without ever thinking about the vibration but I also don't know what I'm missing. The short rides on my friends T7's have been insightful but didn't leave me questioning the single lyfe
The T7 is as close as it gets for me.
I don't see how it could be made significantly lighter without increasing cost and or reducing reliability.
The T7 is about as close as you can get
Tuareg seems better
@@arturlisowicz5271 once they fix the oil leaks and stalling issues
My first ADV bike was a 1979 Yamaha MX100. Several bikes in between, on road, off road, an off road racing career, a street instructing career, then a T7 in 2022. Full circle in my view. Adventure tag, versus dual purpose, dual sport, and remembering the origins of this off road/on road phenomena....the Yamaha DT. Is it about what it is called? The type of riding style. I was 14 then, now 57, and I ride the same trails, gravel roads and highways. The only real difference is that the T7 doesn't fit into the back of RCMP "police" cruiser taking me back to my home to report me to my parents. Riding motorcycles, an adventure in itself. I get the point of this video though, it tackles the concept of 50/50, when there really isn't such a thing. I have DRZE since 2002, kept it to have as a pair with my T7, for the real off road trails. After all that, I conclude it does come down to having two bikes, no way around that in the end. The DRZE , in my humble view was the closest anybody has come to the 50/50. Sure one more gear would be nice, but then if that were the case, my tranny wouldn't have lasted as long as it did so.....I close with this.....ground clearance. The truest test of a bike's off road capability. Anything lower that 12'' is just not quite enough, heavy or not, and in that department you can't have one without the other... in other words, smaller engine. Imagine a T7 with proper ground clearance and it would be top heavy, even more than it already is...I do look forward to the Suzuki twin 800 success stories, but really watch now for the newer, smaller ADV bikes....of the future.....
I have had a bunch of dual sport and adventure bikes. I recently sold a couple of my bikes and picked up a lightly used KTM 690. It's everything that it's hyped to be. I've owned all the Japanese 650's, none are in this league. I had a few DRZ400's, no comparison. Like any "multiple use" bikes you're going to have to compromise one thing to excel more at another. I don't look forward to 400 miles of slab to get to the next BDR or get home from the last one on the 690, but I also don't dread it...and riding off road is way more fun on this than any 600 pound "Adventure" bike out there.
And there speaks the voice if reason! I agree 100%, mine is fantastic.
The 690 enduro doesn't flex like an enduro bike and it is not that buzzy. it also can go 10k kms between oil changes. don't let the "enduro" wording fool you. It is a road bike with off-road pedigree. And the lack of flex is notorious in technical terrain, when compared to a ktm500exc.
Thanks for watching and commenting
I think about something like the KTM EXC 450, Husqvarna 501/701 Enduro. They have terrible service intervals but slap an aftermarket tank on and you get 300 kilometer on a tank any day.
Great video I couldn’t agree more I have a bmw r1200gsa , a Honda crf 450L and a beta 300 two smoke . I love them all I used to ride my bmw off road kinda hard but it took a toll on my body. So I leave it for the long halls , camping trips and dirt roads and on a rare occasion two track . My crf450L and do alittle long haul to some great single track two track. So it goes either way . The beta 300 single track it’s an amazing bike it’s like a mountain bike with an engine but I agree there’s probably never gonna be one bike that can do it all great video thanks again
You make some good points about the modern market, however I’ve been a 50/50 rider in my younger years - but for that you have to accept machine compromises and you can have the 50/50 machine to match.
I guess it’s what you in the US call a Dualsport. The weight 300 to 350 lbs but power 30 to 45 bhp. Available on the market (still) in the US you have the Honda XR650L. Put on a big tank, some tyres like Pirelli MT21 Rallycross, some (not much) soft luggage and off you go. Simple to maintain too.
The closest I’ve had were the Honda XR400R which I rode across Europe from UK on and off-road, also Morocco. XR600R in California and Baja and a Gilera RC600R in UK.
I could go pretty much anywhere on those bikes, save trials type sections. I had the XR400R geared up a bit to help on the road. Those XRs were bombproof motors too.
Currently though, now after 53 years riding and 53 motorcycles I enjoy my Triumph GT Pro, 99% on-road. It’s got the 19” front wheel. I changed the tyres to Dunlop Mutants and the front size to 110/80 for more on road ability but still with the option to do the occasional fire-road.
I guess it all comes down to what compromises you are prepared to accept. When I needed more trials type ability I went smaller and lighter like a 12 bhp 1986 Honda TLR250R. 6 speed box, twin fuel tanks, one below the seat, the other conventional with the airbox in the headstock. It would cruise at 60 mph on the road, but could climb things no rallye bike could. In fact I entered it in a Rallye in Wales and beat most of the big bikes - simply because the wee bike kept going when they couldn’t.
Compromise and enjoy…
The answer is exactly that. Have more than one bike that can do what you're most likely to do. If you make long cross country trips that dip into the back country? Then get a KTM 890. Or if you mostly ride the back country and occasionally use tarmac to get there then get the KTM 690 or hell the 500.
It can exist. Yamaha could do it tomorrow. With their 700cc parallel twin out of the MT 07. Fitted with a lightweight compact Koenigsegg "Free Valve cylinder head. Aprilia SXV 550 V Twin. Could be modernised and increased in capacity.
Cool video, i guess everyone's riding styles are different, for me a husy 701 enduro with a set of supermoto wheels is perfect i feel like its as close to 50/50 as i can get
Good video and some good points, thanks. For me, any of my off-road riding should be on a lighter bike, so I agree that most of the "adventure bikes" need to lose some pork.
You are a bit of a dream breaker:
I had 2 transalp's (one with 1 front disc and one with 2, if I remember). It was a fantastic bike for cities, countryside and a bit of travel not too far. I used to love them.
Then i had a Varadero, big whale, not as fantastic on every point as the Transalp but very good for (looong) travel. North cape to south of spain. And again Brussels-Nordkapp (norway)-Brussels in 5 days. Wonderful and relax.
Now, K have a 1250 RT 2022. Very good. Efficient, sporty if needed. A very capable bike overall. Love it.
BUT !
Since I heard Honda brought us back a Transalp, I'm often thinking I'll buy one and keep the BMW.
Thx for the video : it pushes me more to think a bit and try the Transalp for a short day, before ordering one.
I'll keepyou informed.
Bought my 2020 YZ250X to be my adventure bike. 3.2gal IMS tank, poly skid plate, Acerbis bark busters, 8in front light bar and Acerbis rear taillight. I am meticulous on maintenance tho. I really want a rack like my BF's TW200 tho. I take it everywhere, from riding to work, cruise down dirt roads, tight slow technical and orv trails with my buddies quads and 450 dirtbikes and can hit Silverlake Sand Dunes and hit all of the hills.. I'm no pro by any means but the thing is awesomesauce! Mostly do back road cruising and tight technical so the dunes and pavement are a compromise, but i cant complain
I had such a 50 50 bike. In 1990 in Germany I got the MZ ETZ 250 - military version. It was a true all purposes bike. Strong as a 500 ccm standard bike, 1 cylinder, two-stroke engine, the chain protected in chain case and chain hoses, 2 individual seats with grab handle in between, more torque and less speed than the street version (140 km/h), but still up to 95 km/h on the road. 150 kg. You can lift the rear part of the motorcycle alone. Heavy weight to carry - no problem! Stable luggage racks on the sides. These bikes were last made 30 years ago but today have a higher market price than new equally powerful bikes from other manufacturers. New MZ ETZ 250 bike parts are still available.
There is one that is 300 lbs wet, 65hp tuned, increased oil capacity via frame storage, produces 200watts at the stator, has full dirtbike suspension, will go 110mph with the right gearing, expandable tank to 6+ gallons, durability wise is the equivalent to the Cummins engine, valves that are adjustable with a wrench and screw driver... The XR650R
Ohh... you have to kick start it...
The ballance between light & nimble off road vs comfortable & stable on road to exist in one bike would perpetuate need for a tire change mid- adventure
CF moto has an awesome concept with the 270 degree 450 and I’d like to see almost a mini tenere, super light with a wide soft seat, windshield, large tank etc
Yeah I disagree on the 50/50 rider because I am that rider and I use my adv bike to ride around and to work and dirt bike during sunset and want a little more street focused dual sport that’s between a Drz and an adv. I don’t need something impossible something in the middle of that at a good price is what I’ve been waiting for. The 690 is a unicorn in my perspective but it’s very heavily priced.
Thanks for watching
When I watch a video like that, it makes me think that some people just don't want to be pleased. The idea that a big single is too 'buzzy' makes me think that the riders who think that need to swallow a tea spoon of cement and harden the fark up. The idea that the big single needs too much maintenance astounds me. The recommended service interval of the KTM 690 is longer than what I run my turbo diesel ute without changing oil, so again, harden up princess's and get on with it. Life is too short to be moaning about what we don't have. In saying this I have 3 bikes, as I believe in a horses for courses approach as a dirt rider who uses the road to link up the good bush riding. Love your video's by the way. Keep up the good work. Cheers from Australia.
Your assessment is correct, that’s why I own a BMW F800GSA, Beta 300, and a Yamaha WR250F. Rarely ride the BMW off road.
How do you like that Beta vs the WR
Customers also didn't know they wanted an iPhone before it was born! 50/50 Honda CRF500L + CRF650L Africa Twin as well as in Enduro Sports version- That's motorcycle freedom!
A CRF 650 would be the shiz
It's why I own two bikes. Versys 1000 for touring and carving up corners. KTM 890 R for everything else. I actually prefer it this way, than having one bike for everything.
I bet that 890r is sweet
Brilliant thanks just subscribed and passed it on to a few friends.
Service intervals can be reduced just by impinging parts with a nano coating that has been around since the 50s. Friction reduction and modeling with new materials solves most of the engine wear and frame design problems. It's not like all of the new tech is being used here.
The KTM 690 oil change schedule is 6000 miles. The 2019 and newer is pretty low vibration with the extra balance shaft. I also have a steering damper on mine and this works pretty well. The other major complaint is the close ratio transmission, which really only shows up in first gear. It has an easy hydraulic clutch, so get a shorty 2-finger clutch lever and problem solved. I also have a drz400 which is quite buzzy, but the KTM 690 is not bad at all.
Have you experienced any false neutrals? How do you feel about the chassis and the weight placement? Curious about the steering stabilizer, how does the character change on the highway at higher speeds and have you balanced the wheels?
@@dualsportscandinavia353 I have not experienced false neutrals, but I understand this does NOT happen on ALL of the 690s. Some videos suggest that a different shift lever helps to make the shifting crisper. Another video indicates that there is a fix with a new internal shift spring, that eliminates the false neutrals.
Most important is that a heavy more street oriented adv will eventually get you anywhere a 250 lbs off roader can go. You won't be jumping and it will take some more time but it will get you there (and back).
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment
Australia has a dirt bike club oriented around the Yamaha Super Tenere. 670lbs but dirt tracks/roads only.
Hi there,
In the year 1998, I have bought a new KTM 620 EGS-E Adventure model 1997.
And I still ride this bike, it is the best dual sport bike, which is also suited for travelling, that I could find on the market.
It has a 28 liter fuel tank, a dry weight of 166 kgs., about 30 cm suspension travel in front and rear.
A strong rear frame allows you to mount luggage for long distance travelling.
This was the first bike from KTM that was also suited for road use.
The ride is quite "spartanish", lot of vibrations, super-hard seat.
But I like it, simplicity, ligthweight, long range.
Most customers here in Europe want to travel long distances at high speed on the highways, so KTM builds heavy bikes nowadays......
The reason most people won't buy a 690/701 is because it has a close ratio transmission, too little turning radius, no good way to carry luggage and a fuel tank that brings complaints from everyone for several reasons.
I want a better engine than a KTM and I'd be down to buy it.
Yea that too
I wasn't afraid to take my ZX9R on dirt roads. You just have to move to the other side of the bike in turns like you're riding a dirt bike. I'll never forget when my buddy and I took a gravel road shortcut through Black Hills of SD on our trip from CA to Indy for the F1 race. We were power drifting around a big sweeper when we passed a bunch of National Guardsmen doing whatever they were doing in a flat area on the inside of the turn. They all did a double-take. LOL!!! That was the LAST thing they expected to see out there, two crotch rockets not giving a you-know-what! XD
I took an R1 off road once
Had a T7 just sold it but it was close to my unicorn. My buddy has a 690 and it is a fun bike to ride. My 450RL is a blast but sucks over 65 on the road. Thought the new Transalp was going to be the ticket but very disappointed. I might try the GasGas 700 next why not!!!
I love my 450RL let me know what you think of the Gas Gas
Bikes from Eicma 2022
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Kove 800X Adventure
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Your right. Its a marketing scam in the same way that we drive "trail ready" SUVs and trucks with an off-road package. Most don't use these vehicles off-road and when they do, the factory set-ups tend to break easily. Personally, I prefer ADV bikes because its nice to have a vehicle that is stable and able to handle poor road and climate conditions.
Love all of your content, but i think you really missed the mark on the KTM 690 enduro. It meets every one of the parameters you laid out. You said it would be a maintenance nightmare, but it has a 6k mile service interval. Said it would be buzzy as a single but with dual counterbalancers it’s as smooth as most twins that i have ridden even at highway speeds. Plus with an additional sumo setup and a little diet it’s kind of a do everything bike. I wonder, have you ridden the 690/701/700?
KTM announced the new 490 twin cylinder adventure and enduro models, which had to be ready for the end of 2022. Well, that was just before Covid-19...
Also, such a unicorn motorcycle, from a little British company called CCM has existed (450cc, long range, good travel suspension, lightweight, etc)... but they stopped the production, because of ...low sales :)
Why not write to Ktm and ask if they can officially confirm that the 490 Adventure and Enduro have been discontinued as some Indian motorcycle related Yt channels claim. Come back and publish the answer here 🏁🛵
I did get the Gasgas ES700 and its have the same service time as my friends T7, im happy whit the Gasgas hade some few mods and it runs fine, i wish it got a nav tower standard whit windprotection that's on my wish list. changing the tires to Pirelli mt21 when the stock are worn out.
I have an AJP PR7- 600cc, long travel suspension, great brakes, comfortable seat, 365 lbs and I can ride it on an MX track, single track or hundreds of miles from home with camping gear strapped to the back. I’ve found my unicorn 🤩
Has the AJP been reliable?
husqvarna 701 that i use is pretty much it. You almost describe it exactly in your intro. I love mine. The problem with it is the overthetop electronics and dodads in the electrical system.
If you dont like that get the tenere 700.