Why A LIGHTWEIGHT ADVENTURE BIKE Will Never Be Built | EICMA Disappointment
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2024
- #adv #advrider #eicma #unicorn #dualsport #supermoto #transalp
Everyone was waiting on that perfect 50/50 Unicorn adventure bike at this year's EICMA show. Another year another disappointment. This video addresses why you didn't see on this year and why you never will.
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If a Japanese manufacturer made a 500cc 'Honda 300 Rally' equivalent, it would be a huge success... 50-60hp, ≥160kg, 6th 'tall' gear, range of 350-400km, services 8,000-10,000km- That'll be my everything bike.
Same here bud. There's still hope.
Count me in on that one
no you would find a reason not to buy it
Bring back the XR 650r
@@glennwr450 but 2cyl and e-start and and and
Exactly why I bought a DR650, mine is not buzzy, I love singles. Put $2,000 into it and it's perfect for me and all under $10,000. I don't need all the bs riding modes, abs or quick shift and I can figure out which gear I'm in without a special readout or a blinking light for gas level and I can fix anything on it without a computer and 6 month wait for parts. Over 250 mile range with my tank and a little piece of plastic above the headlight keeps wind off my chest, cruises freeway all day at 75. Maintenance? What maintenance.
I love singles
Yes Sir! DRs are such a great bike with just a few mods (which are fun to do)
If the Dr 650 was modernized with fuel injection, upgraded suspension, maybe a 6th gear and few other adjustments and suddenly you have the perfect adventure bike, at least for myself anyways. I will note the Dr isn't 70 horsepower, but it's so reliable that I don't care, besides it's got plenty of torque. In my opinion the current Dr 650 model which hasn't changed since 1996 with a few mods is one of the best 50-50 options out there. The potential for the Dr 650 to be better overall is certainly possible.
Yeah baby!!!! I agree, A good motor, a good fuel system, brakes, tranny, suspension and awesome frame with no electronics (except legal lights), one gauge (temp gauge to avoid nastiness) pick your tires.
I have to agree with the DR 650 fans here. I sold my DRZ 400 and my Triumph tiger and replaced both with the DR 650. While it is not as good a street/touring bike as the tiger, nor as good a dirt bike as the DRZ, it is truly a great motorcycle and a total hoot to ride, no matter where I ride it. That torquey motor is its own reward.
It is not about spending 50/50 time on- and offroad. It is about having a bike that can do both as good as possible. Even if I spend only 5% off my time off road, I want those 5% to be as enjoyable as possible.
yes but you are giving up a lot for something rarely used Making big sacrifices for 5% of your riding choice
That’s exactly how I’ve always seen it.
Exactly. The premise is false.
That's just another way of saying you want a 50/50 unicorn bike.
Bloody oath!
CRF ~400cc Rally ~40hp with better suspension than 300 rally and similar service intervals for 2 or 3k more. I think it would sell. Don't need a twin, just decent balancing.
Thanks for watching
This
Great video with excellent points. I too have multiple bikes and agree with your general assessment. But you overlooked another opportunity that seems possible. A DRZ400 with a 6 speed transmission and fuel injection. That's probably why you have the Honda 450.
Thank you Jeff
Ya we never went to the moon! So I guess we are screwed.
Agreed
I'm pretty happy with the KTM 690 Enduro R. Some mods are needed to help it be the bike I want it to be but it was pretty close right out of the crate. Coming off an extremely moded KLR, the KTM is light years ahead of it. It vibrates a LOT less and oil change intervals at 6,200 miles don't seem too often to me. I will still change it every 4k miles or so but I would do the same on a DR or KLR as well. I get the point though. I have 6 bikes and they all serve a purpose. Keep up the videos. I enjoy watching.
I think the 690 is my next bike
I have owned a klr, 690, t7 and Ktm 500exc. The 690 is as close as you can get to the unicorn. But man do I love my 500exc. If I have learned anything, you need multiple bikes.
My friend's 690 SM had the frame crack. No reason. No crashes, the guy is not big on wheelies. Just broke next to where the frame slider is. If KTM's were reliable...
If you put bark busters with the built in handle bar weights on your singles you kiss most of the vibration goodbye.
I have a exc500 and absolutely love it! I don't think I'll ever get rid of it.
@@archiewilson4943 the sliders are why it cracked. Harmonics of that weight vibrating. Widely known in the 690/701 sm world
I purchased my 2012 F800 with this in mind. I cut a bunch of weight, added 21” x 18” steel wheels, let Racetech create great suspension. I had about the closest thing I could get my hands on. I’ve been enjoying it for a long time now and it just keeps on going. In my garage it’s my dirt bike.
Yes. We have a goon! Seriously, we had a good compromise with the Honda XL/XR 500 models. Later, replaced by the XL/XR600-650 models (depending on the markets). I had tons of fun riding my XR500 in on/off road conditions. This changed when I fitted the XR engine in a C&J frame. Then it became a pure off-road bike.
Chinese companies like CFMoto may surprise us and get closer to a unicorn bike. Your definition of a unicorn is different than how I and many would define it though. For me, it would be something like a WR450R with a 4-5 gallon tank, basic windscreen, comfortable seat, 40HP, sub 350lb weight, and service intervals similar to the WR250R I currently own.
I wonder if everyone will not buy the Chinese bike
So true about the WR450!
I’m buying the Kove 450 Rally for that reason. 370lbs wet with an 8 gallon fuel tank, 51hp 450cc single with liquid cooling, ABS, and 11 inches of suspension travel. Its the closest to the unicorn we will get
@@austinbauman3818 Makes a lot of sense in terms of specs. If it's reliable and delivers, you will have a lot of fun with that! Braaaaaaaaap!
I share your vision of the unicorn bike, as well as your belief that the Chinese will probably give us a lightweight ADV bike with enough HP to comfortably cruise on the highway when needed. The reason the big Japanese and European manufacturers refuse to give us the bike we want is because they don't want to detract from their big ADV bike sales. They belatedly and reluctantly added a small ADV bike to their lineup but positioned it not to be the best it could be, but rather to be a beginner bike to get customers on the upgrade path to their $15K bloated mid size or $25K full size maxi bloated ADV pig. I love my G310GS, but it's really singing at 75 MPH on the highway, however the real crime against humanity is the 2.9 gallon fuel tank. That's an unforgivable sin on an ADV bike.
If you have multiple bikes you’ve already failed the test of being a 50/50 rider. But for those of us who can only afford/want one bike that does both well, that’s the market. By having multiple bikes you’re more in the enthusiast category, and therefore disqualify yourself from needing a 50/50 machine. The market is for people that don’t have the coin, desire, space to have multiple machines sitting around that we can jump on when the need arises.
Have you considered a Dr.Z 400sm? This is my 8th motorcycle - and It is way better off and on road than I am. Something to think about.
Cheers!
I’m in the market, and I already own three bikes. The unicorn bike I have in mind probably will never exist. But if it did, I would still own multiple bikes, because I enjoy the uniqueness of them all. 🤘
After exhaustive research I’ve come to the conclusion that the only answer to this dilemma is a five bike stable.
Yes lol
Very true. I'm selling my Tenere and get 1) an Africa Twin and 2) a WR450F. Both great in their field whilst the Tenere is questionable in both unless you are Pol Tarres...
Ya, I would have to agree, I have 2, at one point had 3, but in the end, more money,more bikes an bigger stable is the only solution to this problem. You go to bed and wake up thinking...which bike am I going to ride today.....
how do you swap to your offroad bike when you took your touring bike to get to the trail lol.
Like any enthusiast sport...skiing, cycling, moto, etc.
your equipment count can always be
N + 1
When I look at adventure bike videos, I want to try them. I then realize, if I bought one, I would still ride my dirt bike more, because that is what I enjoy more. Unless you are Chris Birch, who is sponsored by KTM, most of us will not enjoy an adventure bike in the dirt. They are too heavy. Thanks for your video.
Yes I tried to be Chris Birch on my Tiger 800 and all I did was crash and waste my riding time trying to pick the bike up
Yep , balance the wheels on your enduro bike , fit a big tank. If ya haven’t already 😉.
Best adventure bike you well get if ya don’t ride 500k tar sections.
@@benlondon8467 So so true. And it's there, just a few mods and you have that "giant black hole in the bike galaxy" bike!
@@benlondon8467 Sounds like my DR650!😁
Xr650r with a magic button and detachable subframe. The 690 has a pretty long maintenance interval. The small gas tank is the biggest hindrance.
This is why I'm old school at this point and ride two bikes: 2005 R1200GS and a 2022 Husqvarna FE 501S. That combo was solid in 2005 and it's solid now. I'd love an 890 Adventure R, but then I'd have to look at it and it would be worse than both bikes I have.
There have been a few that came close. The old KTM 640 Adventure had a 7 gallon tank and weighed about 400 lbs fully fueled. It had a payload capacity of around 440 lb and pillion pegs. It had a great long-travel suspension. It was related to the 660 race bikes that KTM used to win the Dakar circa 2000. Shortcomings were a minimal wind screen and a very buzzy engine. It didn't sell very well -- in fact, I never even heard of the thing until long after it went out of production.
Currently the AJP PR7 is not far off from unicorn status. It weighs about 364 lb wet. It has a 4.5 gallon under-seat tank that keeps the weight centralized. More than 11" of suspension travel. It has reasonably long maintenance intervals and it has a rally-tower wind screen. It is a thumper, so it won't be as smooth as some twins, but the biggest issue is that it isn't street legal everywhere.
As for the KTM 690 Enduro ... it's a good bike, but KTM (for some inexplicable reason) has steered it away from unicorn land. It has one of the best thumpers ever made (powerful and with long maintenance intervals), a decent suspension, and a good frame. But, it doesn't have a real sub-frame to support luggage, it doesn't have even a rudimentary wind screen, and it doesn't have a wide-ratio transmission. That last one is a real crime, because the 690 is light enough to handle moderately-difficult single track, but you can't gear it down enough for single-track without making it scream on the highway.
I used to own one. "Buzzing" is an understatement and the oil change with the oil running in the frame was a pain in the behind. I now own a 500EXC and it's better everywhere sans the fuel range and payload capacity. Like he said, everything's a compromise.
Love my 2007 KTM 640 Adventure. Never getting rid of it.
People forget about the yamaha xt 660E
@@alessandrogomesaraujo4206 I don't see a 660E anywhere ... there was the 660Z, which is similar to the KTM 640 Adventure, except with 3" less suspension travel, 10% less power, a gallon less fuel, and 50 lb more curb weight. It did have a better wind screen though, and the engine was probably less vibey.
@@C_R_O_M________ I've owned a 640 since 2003 and the vibration keeps me off of it unless I have it in the California desert where it's amazing. I had a 450 EXC and it was great off road but horrible on the street. I've had various dirt bikes and currently have a KTM 350xc-f. I'd love to replace my 640 with a modern day version. I don't want to be putting a kit on a 690 enduro.
Great video mate. I think the latter point is the most likely. In my humble opinion the reason this bike doesn't exist is because we all think we are better riders than we actually are. The reality is every bike in production is more capable than 99% of the riders. The bikes are not the limiting factor. Case in point Pol Tarres finishing top 10 in Erzberg on a light weight enduro rocket ship and 77th on a Teneree 700.
We want to much out of our bikes. The reality is the light weight adventure bike does exist albeit with minor modification. KTM 690, AJP PR7, SWM 500 (wider range gearbox) , WR 450. The bikes are not the limiting factor, we are. Having said that KTM should produce the 690 enduro and husqvaran the 701 rally and problem solved.
We all have so many complaints because we are soft as ferk. Oh my bike is to heavy (get stronger), oh my suspension is to soft ( lose weight) oh my bike doesn't handle well enough (get better) oh this single is buzzy (harden up). Rant over lol.
Amen to that, brother.
AJP PR7 looks so good on paper.... Just don't know a whole lot about them.
I tried to get one to test but no go
I bought one and I love it. The handling and suspension is very good. The engine has plenty of power for highway cruising, and plenty of low end grunt to lug around off road. It is easy to plate in my state, but not in others.
Nice work. But I do have to say... I think your 70-90 hp benchmark is overkill. If your bike weights 400lbs or less, than 40 hp will propel you enough to overtake whenever you want ( normal circumstances) ,and you will accelerate faster than MOST cars.The DR650 fits the bill. And it's cheaper than your 5 figure. And yes I was scammed with my 1st bike when I bought a cb500x thinking I was going to enjoy it offroad. Got a DR now! Cheers
I too have DR650. I saved so much on the purchase price, I upgraded the carburetor to a pro jet kit, Leo Vince exhaust, Cogent Mojave suspension. Easily cruises 75 mph. But can go 95+ for passing. Of course it’s a dirt monster!
Could be the T7 dynos at less than 70hp I think
I agree on the technical points of the difficulty in manufacturing a sub 400# twin. It's gonna be real difficult while keeping it reasonably priced and maintaining reliability. I disagree somewhat on the 50/50 rider. It's not the amount of time I spend on each surface (dirt/asphalt), it's that I want to bike to perform (as close to) optimally under most conditions, even if it's more like 70/30 (dirt/street). As an example - I did 1,400 miles across SW/SE Oregon back in September. I planned a route that stayed on as much dirt as possible. But, I did have to bail out on the pavement a couple of times and covered 100-150 miles or so at a time. Having a twin (Yamaha T-7) makes that so much more enjoyable than a single. Having that same capability on the road, but about 75# less weight on the dirt would open up even more terrain. If someone does make a sub 400# twin, then I think the horsepower will be where the tradeoff is made, say a 500-600 cc with 60 or so hp.
That too to make that bike with longer service intervals would be too expensive
Great video.
I am not a 50/50 rider, and I will never be one, but I would love to see something like CRF 450 Rally (that has 300 Rally service intervals) or T5. I would buy that bike without hesitation.
Thanks for watching
@@BornAGoon My pleasure. I really enjoy your channel. Cheers!
Stoked! Write to Yamaha and suggest the Tenere 500 as an extended model series to the Tenere 155, 700 and 900. Come back and report 🏁
It looks like so many of us would like to see a crf450l rally with similar maintenance intervals as the 300l , but I think that Honda knows that if they bring that bike, it will affect the sales of the 300l and maybe the sales of the 450rl and besides that,it looks most manufactories need an engine that can be used in at least 3 different models to make profit out of their investments
Cheers 🏍️
Thats what we want maybe soon we will see it
This is why I chose the Husky 701 SM as my ride. I am and always will be predominantly a road rider. I like the idea of offroading, but apart from the 1 or 2 gravel roads I ride on a year, it makes no sense for me to get anything more dirt biased. The 17s on the supermoto with some nice 80/20 ADV tires is plenty enough for the "offroad" that I do while giving little away on the road. That's where my balance is for me and makes sense for me.
Admittedly though, I am thinking going back to a full road sport touring set up. That's just more what I truly am, but still am enjoying the 701. Some of these ADV bikes with some 17s slapped on would be a greatly welcome addition. KTM 890 sport tourer anybody?
Really great points-thanks for posting
Glad you enjoyed it!
It's so frustrating but you're spot on.
yes it is
KTM500EXCF is the closest I've come to finding a perfect bike. Extra set of SM wheels is fun.
I feel that way about my 450RL
Agreed, I have one and it just needs a bigger oil and gas tank to be a great adventure bike.
Exactly, I run an old 450 EXC for fun, for real fun my Aprilia RXV 550, twin cylinder, 126kg full of fuel and 72hp supermoto spec engine. It can be done!
Should be able to build up your Honda for light adventure with 20L onboard around 330lbs. Probably get a KTM500 built up similarly closer to 300lbs. Would sure be sweet to see Yamaha step up to the table with a dual sport WR500. Thanks for keeping the dream alive.
Thanks for watching
Bring back the 2 Stroke with modern fixings! It’ll Cut the weight, Add exhaust scavenging or supercharging. Make it a twin 350 or 400 with an oil sump or oil injection with a relatively large gas tank and a way to put on luggage.
I think sub 400 is definitely possible with touring in mind and will handle happily off road.
Unfortunately with the EPA 2 strokes will be gone soon
@@BornAGoon Sadly, if only our government organizations focused more on building and growing habitat for wildlife like that Indian man who planted a forest to stop erosion, instead of taking away our fun, I think we’d be in a better spot.
At the rate we’re going they’re gonna try to take away our 4 strokes and tell us we can’t charge our electric vehicles because of electricity shortages…oh wait.
Aprillia's 550 RXV was as close as this earth 🌍 will ever see to a perfect design. It needed a Dakar Rally fairing and larger tank, but the H.O. Twin is what is needed. I would also like to see a front wheel electric motor for slow speed acceleration or off the line torque and regenerative braking.
Too bad they stopped making it
@@BornAGoon the other issue is curb weight includes fuel. This means that the larger the range the heavier it appears to be. These bikes should always be measured using "dry weight".
@@fabulousoffroaddesigns5080
Bmw G650 X Challange is also a genuine bike that can travel around the world as well as handle offroad trails.
This video is so spot on! The adventure motorcycle market is a marketing scam. Just my little humble opinion, adventure should be in the soul of the rider, not the bike he or she rides. Unless someone lives in the middle in the Outback or Patagonia, the rider profile of 50/50 will probably not apply. Bottom line, be happy to be riding on whatever terrain you have available! Great video Mr. Goon!
Cheers!
Thank you No truer words have been spoken
I think an adventure bike would shine on vacations and weekend trips, where you travel far but also do trails. If just used for commuting, there are better options.
Some good points... however I think the market has come close a few times and those bikes have sold well. T7, 500x, 390adv, DRZ400, and various 650 dual sports are all great examples.
I dont think the "Unicorn" necessarily needs to be 600+ CC. It just needs to be a competent offroad machine still capable of Decent freeway riding.
And to that end I think the sweet spot truly lies in the 400-500cc range. Either a big single or small Ptwin.
Rumors have circled about an NX500 Dominator in the works. Wich if it follows through with its traditional Enduro frame with fairings could very well be that bike.
KTM is also said to be working on a 490ADV Ptwin that could hit the mark as well.
True maybe its not build because of money it would ruin sales
I would say 500-600 is the sweet spot.50-60hp, higher torque with flat curve. So that it can do 130kmph on a highway with a passenger. Electronically adjustable suspension to behave well on road and off. Around 450lbs/200kg to make it realistic. I think the required power is probably the most overrated thing out of the other criteria.
Honda 500x kind of fits those specs, but the frame, suspension, cast wheels and engine are very road oriented. I want a sturdier frame that doesn't use the engine for support. 20+cm ground clearence. Wire wheels. Less power more torque engine with lower revs. I was hoping for something like that from the transalp. But they created a Hornet with bigger wheels. IMO they don't build it because it would mean a completely new platform. New frame, new engine. They rather slightly adjust what they have.
They almost nailed with Tenere 700. It could have a bit lower center of gravity. And if they made it 500cc with 50hp and slightly ligher, it would be ideal.
@@vojtal182 Rally Raid conversion of Honda500x gets you closer
@@vojtal182 200 kg is too much! The old 950 Super Enduro with a 1000CC engine (LC8) weighted less than 200Kg. My 500 EXC weights 130kg and if it had a bigger oil and gas tank it'd be the perfect bike for me. The power is enough. Almost the same power to weight ratio as my old 990 ADV R.
@@C_R_O_M________ Have had all three at the same time, now just the 990A and 500EXCF. Compromises across the board.
The 950SE was my favourite but to get any kind of mileage (~120miles) I ran the Exxon Valdez tank which just made it super top heavy and dangerous on single track. The head angle also was more appropriate for high speed desert run than tech single track. That fueling though was a beautiful experience, silky smooth. Carb maint wasn't fun, it sat on the kitchen table for months while I tried to figure it out.
The 990A works great on roads (crossed the US on it) once you deal with the buffeting and 150-180 mile range and does easy single track but it's a heavy beast picking it off the ground with luggage.
My adventurized 500EXCF is my unicorn bike, as close to perfect as possible for out west. A 200 mile tank, comfortable (relative) seat, ecu, other mods. Can do single track and 100mph sprints on tarmac, but I'm not doing 200 miles on the road without doing some stretching. Change the oil every few thousand miles and it's good to go.
Is it perfect? No, but it's close.
Clever vid. Nice work. Thanks!
thank you
I liked the way you did this video. Great edit. Thumb up and subscribed.
KTM 390 ADV is as close as you will get off the shelf; it’s more road based than many want, but put nobblies and a smaller front sprocket and it’s better off-road. The engine is great fun on the road.
I like the 390
Wet weight 379 lbs (172 kg) is way to heavy for serious 50/50, Was surprised how bad the components (brakes clutch etc) were and how poorly the chassis was balanced. The chassis felt clumsy and heavier than 660 Tuareg, T7. It also lacks suspension, spoked wheels, low end grunt, high ground clearance and so forth! 490 Adventure + Enduro might not have been a bit better.. If Norden 501 and 501 Enduro can get Dna from Fe350-701 Enduro, then maybe there is some hope!
The Yamaha TW200 missed all the criteria, but yet gets the job done and is fun doing it!
Gets you thinking. I guess at the end of the day you just need to test ride as many bikes as possible to understand what you really need. Or like most of us this enlightenment comes after many years of riding!
I found my unicorn with the T7 like many others have. It's a handful on really technical off road and gets a bit wayward when you push the boundaries on tarmac. But as I never live in either of those extremes it just works for me!
Thats al that matters is you found what you like
I've seen alot of m/c vids & this one has to be up there with the best.Nice views of trail-riding I've got a v-strom650 & understand what a bike can & can't do.The new Suzuki800?For me is too heavy for starters.Great philosophy at the end there mate.
Thank you I appreciate it
Honda already has the perfect platform to build up into the unicorn adventure bike. The xr650l. With a lower seat height, a larger tank, fuel injection and borrowed fairing styling from its little 300 sister honda could tick all the boxes we are asking for. Also the xr650s existing culture and wide aftermarket selection this bike would be a hit among the adventure community. A capable bike that out performs the kawasaki klr, while undercutting the price point of the yamaha T7 and suzuki V strom.
My only gripe with the KTM 690 is the fact it has no fuel gauge. You have to rely on the trip meter.
Too hard to reset after a fill?
@@IRQ1Conflict I guess not
Great video I couldn’t agree more I have a bmw r1200gsa , a Honda crf 450L and a beta 300 two smoke . I love them all I used to ride my bmw off road kinda hard but it took a toll on my body. So I leave it for the long halls , camping trips and dirt roads and on a rare occasion two track . My crf450L and do alittle long haul to some great single track two track. So it goes either way . The beta 300 single track it’s an amazing bike it’s like a mountain bike with an engine but I agree there’s probably never gonna be one bike that can do it all great video thanks again
My first time finding one of your videos. I fully agree. My bikes are at DR200 and a v-strom 650.
I ride the DR in town daily, and only use the v-strom when I'm traveling.
For some reason, I'm leaning hard towards a versys 300x. Takes care of that single cylinder conversation. Has a little wind coverage. Can do okay speeds, but doesn't really have enough power or ground clearance for major off-road. However, I'm 90% on road, with big dreams. 🤷
I had a 300 versys with all of the bells and whistle upgrades (after DR650, KLR650, XR650) and found it small , buzzy and under suspended even for gravel roads... great milage and good winter weather bike though... on DRZ400 now
The ktm 690 isn't buzzy. Oil change intervals are 6k miles. Its the unicorn you speak of, but too heavy for ohv trails in the pnw. I hope they make a 390 enduro that weighs less than 300lbs and costs less than $8,000.
My 790AdvR comes darn close to unicorn. I shed some good kgs and now it's ~195kg with fuel and with enduro tires plus tubliss system, suspension tuning, steering damper. This bike over terrain I am riding is not performing worse than dual sports. On the other hand I have no problem riding 140km/h on tar except maybe for tire wear. I had a chance to compete on it in Rally event and my special stages times were equal to average time in single cylinder class. Also rode with buddy of mine on EXC-F350 and he stayed behind for the most part. In a bit more difficult terrain I was able to ride over everything he was. Situation would change in mountains and rocky terrain, but that is not where I ride. In sandy/forrest, flat terrain it is my unicorn and I recommend to anyone both the bike and mods
That is a wicked bike
This is my choice as well, what mods did you do to get the weight down?
@@kamax7672 lipo battery, decat&muffler, narrow rims with tubliss, single disc, EVAP, and removed lots of unnecessary crap.
This was an absolutely excellent review.
Your words are too kind
Customers also didn't know they wanted an iPhone before it was born! 50/50 Honda CRF500L + CRF650L Africa Twin as well as in Enduro Sports version- That's motorcycle freedom!
A CRF 650 would be the shiz
I want the 50/50 unicorn twin, and I want the 300 mile range. But I'll probably settle for a T7 Raid.
I want 50/50 triple/ Omnisport single, so far all ADVs have been overweight with big twins and become heavy pigs off road. Either way, Rieju Aventura 500 Legend and the KOVE 450RALLY set the benchmark. But have to settle for a WR450F, DRZ, XR650R, DR650, G650X Challange, Fe501, 500 Exc or 690/700/701 Enduro.
i have sold T7 after one season
Take a 690/701 motor, put a wide ratio transmission in it. Put that motor in the old 640 adventure frame (with attachment points for lightweight luggage), with the good suspension from their dirt bikes and people will be lined up to buy it.
The 640 is a gem. I'm with this 100%.
except that the 640 shook like a wet dog on steroids on the highway
Even though the Aprilia Tuareg 660 is just over 400lbs, it is still a good value and close to all the specs that everyone is looking for. I was kind of disappointed when the Transalp 750 when came out more road oriented.
450 lbs / 204.11 kg wet and is way too heavy offroad! What is missing is a DS-Enduro +ADV Rally bike between 300Rally/DRZ - DR650,XR650R/L, Fe501 - 701 Enduro etc.
My KTM 790 R has been a great blend. I realize it’s 450 lb. + bike but for the mountains of Idaho, it’s been fantastic! It’s the closest unicorn bike for me.
Being a new owner of the KTM 890 ADV R, I realize now this bike is capable of anything! However, at my age and sustaining a major injury; I don't do all the daring stuff that the bike is capable of. The main thing I dread when riding hard is being able to pick it up when I crash. I usually crash at least twice when riding hard. With my luggage it's probably ~ 500 lbs. I'm a strong burly guy, but 500 lbs is a lot to pick up alone (multiple times). I agree with you in terms of a single cylinder vs. a twin cylinder. It definitely needs to be a twin cylinder. Somewhere in between the 690 R and 890 R weighing ~ 400 lbs with luggage would be ideal.
Thats too much crashing.....isn't it?
@@davidcolinfisher1034 Yes it is! I crash a lot mainly and loose dirt and sand. There are areas to ride close to my house, but it is sandy with lots of washes. I did get ran off the road on Saturday in the mountains and crashed. That was fun. The kid that ran me off the road helped me lift my bike back up.
I ride in SW Washington. Have put 8k miles on a DRZ 400 I bought in 2016. It’s about 50 hwy miles to get out there. A lot of the time I ride alone. Always thinking about different bikes but every time I crash, I’m always reminded why the DRZ. It doesn’t do anything really well but it does pretty much everything. And that last 50 miles of pavement on the way home after a long day or 3, sucks.
I love my DRZ400 with big tank, slightly lowered and geared up... no trials, MX or freeways, but everything else. Just start by finding tires that both have great asphalt and mud performance...
My unicorn bike is a 400-500 cc single cylinder ADV bike, sub 400 pounds, 40-50 HP, $8000 or less, but with good suspension and ground clearance, a 5-6 gallon fuel tank, tubeless spoke wheels and long service intervals. Bonus points for a proper bash plate and engine protection, serious brush guards on the grips, a comfortable seat, large pegs for standing, and a large rear rack. Now that I'm in my 60s I ride back roads and a little mild off road, but would like to be able to take a highway for a get-home-quick option when a ride goes off the rails without red lining the engine for an hour. Modern thumpers have good counter balancers. They aren't as smooth as a twin, but they're smooth enough.
From what I can see, this bike doesn't exist because of marketing weasels. The big manufacturers see their reluctant late addition small ADV bikes as beginner bikes to get customers on the upgrade path to their $15K to $20K "proper" ADV bikes. They don't want to make a great smaller ADV bike because it would detract from their big ADV bike sales rather than add to them. The problem isn't engineering. The problem is marketing. That's often the way of the world.
The closest I've found to my unicorn bike is the BMW G310GS. I'm very happy so far, but I'd like a bit more power for the occasional highway riding that I do, although it doesn't seem to mind me ringing it out for an hour to sprint home. The fatal flaw in the baby GS is the 2.9 gallon fuel tank on an ADV bike. That's unforgivable. It should be twice that capacity.
I felt that video. Keep it up!
Thank you! Will do! I appreciate the kind words
Because a lightweight and reasonable price adventure bike will fucked up their bottom line since all of the other line up will be relegated to nothing. Imagine, for example, a CB500x motor with a body like the CRF300L, abs, 21-inch front wheel, and no crap electronics, at 7000 USD. No one will go for the ktms or the teneres unless they need the HP, and let's face it, most traveling adventure riders won't need more than 50 hp.
Thanks for watching and commenting Pablo
The 2019+ KTM 690R has a revised engine and is pretty darn smooth. I think this is a perfect light weight adventure bike with the proper setup. Hopefully KTM we'll realize this too
Its close
Once you get on a smooth bike that glides the highway you realize how not smooth that KTM is. There are times when I'll tour 9+hrs a day and the vibrations add up...
Had a T7 just sold it but it was close to my unicorn. My buddy has a 690 and it is a fun bike to ride. My 450RL is a blast but sucks over 65 on the road. Thought the new Transalp was going to be the ticket but very disappointed. I might try the GasGas 700 next why not!!!
I love my 450RL let me know what you think of the Gas Gas
Bikes from Eicma 2022
th-cam.com/video/MwLN9PETl_U/w-d-xo.html
Kove 800X Adventure
th-cam.com/video/SUzCcu16b94/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/users/shorts6a9HikRicoY
Very well said but there is still another dimension. For example, if I wanted to ride between Telluride and Ouray, I could do it without ever leaving pavement, or I could do it without ever leaving the dirt. So that is the choice you refer to. But certain choices are made for us instead. For example, I could choose a dirt bike for the street but only one that has a license plate, or I could choose a street bike for the dirt but only so long as it has the needed traction and clearance. So either way, you make a choice to start out on the street but at some point the trail is presented to you. Or you start on the trail, but at some point you have to ride on the paved roads. So the unicorn everyone really wants, is a street legal machine that go as deep offroad as desired. Sometimes that machine won't take you as deep as you want. Sometimes the machine that can take you as deep as you want won't take you on the highway. So the choice between 50-50 or 70-30 is a moving target, for everybody, and everybody looks for the bike they are capable of handling everywhere they want it to go, and they want it carry them comfortably as far and as fast as they would like. Therefore the perfect unicorn bike is a 200/200/200 machine with heated seats and grips that weighs nothing, 13 inches of clearance that you can easily plant both feet down, that's 200 mph, 200 mile range, 200 lbs.
For me the focus should be on calming the vibes of a thumper. This and more oil capacity. The parallel twins all have the weight in the wrong spot. 500excf is so close to the unicorn.
True that! There is nothing between CRF300L/Rally, DRZ400 and DR650, XR650L, 690/700/701 Enduro. WR450F, CRF450L/RL, Fe501, 500Exc is close but longer intervals...
you have to have 2 bikes unfortunately (I actually love having 2). I use the KTM 500 for overnighters closer to home or more technical, but its terrible on the highway. I recently got the desert x which is the most fun I've ever had on a motorcycle . It feels so light and flickable that I'm using it more than my KTM - and on the road it feels like a sport bike. I put the decat pipe on as well as silencer (SC Project) and it took an additional 12 pounds off the weight which is now just 20 pounds heavier than my old T7 but with a lot more power and way better suspension.
Yes you need 2 They want us to buy 2 lol
Brilliant thanks just subscribed and passed it on to a few friends.
WOW, great video. I originally thought the manufactures refused to make the Unicorn bike because they would shrink their own market. Meaning, they can sell you one bike not the two that are required to satisfy the 50-50 rider, but your logic and knowledge of the motorcycle rider completely convinced me that your correct. There is no 50-50 rider!!!! Genius !!!!
Hi Mate-Rider,
I want try to reset my backround to reborn and giving importance to things they didn't have it ...
... it's all in our mind / WE MUST CHANGE ( My 44th Bike , after the last Africa Twin Adv Sport 2018, just little heavy , and Husky 701 (Fragile cams) it's a new Honda 300 L Rally 2022 //// It was not easy but I had prepared myself 😘 and after 4 months and 8000 km, I believe I'm reaching my balance now //// YES I spend other 4000€ in addition for many parts / suspension + exhaust + rims + remap ECU + footpegs and other parts , but I have my little UNICORN now ..... and I'm HAPPY but we must reset.
Maybe we really have to lose something to earn something else in a new unknown horizon,
Sorry for my english
Luca (Milan Italy)
Thanks for watching and commenting Luca
My local Honda dealer said we wouldn't see the Transalp 750 in the US until 2025, if ever.
OMG I hope that isnt true damn
Cool video, i guess everyone's riding styles are different, for me a husy 701 enduro with a set of supermoto wheels is perfect i feel like its as close to 50/50 as i can get
Brilliantly done video
Thank you
In my search for the unicorn ive settled on three sizes. a wr450, dr650, and super tenere. The dr650 is the closest to a true 50/50 bike, took alot of adjustments and farkles but it is the true 50/50 rider bike, which being that is what made me go and get the other two. Because it did it all but was not great on long trips and on more technical trails it was a bit heavy and clumsy compared to trail bikes.
50/50 =100 it is a compromise in the name alone, it will never be the best at all but good for both.
The unicorn would be a 100/100 or as close to that as you could get, they dont want a 50/50 bike thus the quest for the impossible?
If they could make that unicorn a bike. To me it would be you could comfortably ride 500+ mile days to get somewhere to camp, then go blast single track with confidence and speed of a slightly heavy enduro.
The factor is weight for it to be great at one or the other it has to be heavy for the road for stability and comfort over distance, or light for the trail to be nimble. the middle is always going to be a compromise.
I wish they made that WR 450 street legal Jdub
After riding 701 Enduro conclusion is drawn to it´s future little brothers. Husqvarna 501 Norden and 501 Enduro would have a great chance to revolutionize the motorcycle market as true unicorns. Also GAS GAS 500-600 ADV Rally+DSB. With futuristic launches of , do-it-all - Omnisport machines like the 601 Norden and 601 Enduro.
Besides the KTM;
Yamaha Tenere700 is pretty close to a lightweight adventure bike
You would think that, but try picking it up from the ground. The weight is high up and the bike lies very flat.
A GS 1200 is easier to pickup up then a T7. A T5 is what we need, and make it a 2 cylinder for the long interval on the maintenance.
husqvarna 701 that i use is pretty much it. You almost describe it exactly in your intro. I love mine. The problem with it is the overthetop electronics and dodads in the electrical system.
If you dont like that get the tenere 700.
I recently bought a Honda 450L and am in the process of turning it into a lightweight ADV. Aside from the Kove 450 (which is not yet street-legal as I write this), I think it's about as close as you can get to the right platform for building the bike I want-namely, something I could do a BDR on by myself and enjoy the experience, rather than just survive it. I intended to do this on my Africa Twin but after a few reality checks, it's just too much damned bike. I realized that I could either have a true lightweight that's more fatiguing on the freeway, or a big bike that's MUCH more liable to injure me or get stuck on a difficult trail (and less enjoyable regardless). For me that was an easy choice, but it's certainly a tradeoff. Having no prior experience with dirt bikes, the weight of this thing is a revelation. I'm sorry, but your T7 or 890 or any other "middleweight" ADV is still a heavy-ass bike. Yeah, Pol Tarrés can rip on it like it's a 250 or a Trials bike, but are you Pol? I'm not. Multi-cylinder ADV's are easily the most versatile motorcycles. They're a great choice for any trip on quasi-maintained roads (paved or otherwise). But are you in good enough shape to pick one up 5 or 6 times, fully-laden, when it's 100º in the desert and your choices are to keep riding or call for LifeFlight? I'm not. And even if I were, it doesn't sound like fun.
It's going to take some mods, but if you buy one used as I did, many of those have probably already been done. My bike is currently ~280lb and 50HP or so; the weight and power are certainly there. Stock suspension is far more capable than I'll ever be. There are aftermarket fuel tanks up to 5 gallons, so the range can be had. The frame has proven sturdy enough to carry a reasonable BDR load. And honestly, it's not as bad on the freeway as I thought it would be. Would I choose it for a 1000-mile highway journey? Heck no. Can I deal with it for a couple hours? Sure. And it's an absolute BLAST lane-splitting through traffic.
You can't have it all, and with this bike, reasonable maintenance intervals are the major thing you can't have. You just have to accept that as the price of entry. Oil changes are a 10-minute job if you get a skid plate that allows access to the drain plug. And it only takes 1.2qt of oil, so they aren't expensive either. I can live with it, for everything else I'm getting.
The T7 is as close as it gets for me.
I don't see how it could be made significantly lighter without increasing cost and or reducing reliability.
The T7 is about as close as you can get
Tuareg seems better
@@arturlisowicz5271 once they fix the oil leaks and stalling issues
I have had a bunch of dual sport and adventure bikes. I recently sold a couple of my bikes and picked up a lightly used KTM 690. It's everything that it's hyped to be. I've owned all the Japanese 650's, none are in this league. I had a few DRZ400's, no comparison. Like any "multiple use" bikes you're going to have to compromise one thing to excel more at another. I don't look forward to 400 miles of slab to get to the next BDR or get home from the last one on the 690, but I also don't dread it...and riding off road is way more fun on this than any 600 pound "Adventure" bike out there.
And there speaks the voice if reason! I agree 100%, mine is fantastic.
subscribed before i realised you also have a tiger 800... I'll be paying attention.. of all the bikes I've had so far it has been the best compromise between the street and offroad to date... you right nobody is pure 50/50
Unfortunately, I don't ride the tiger enough I have some old Tiger single track vids on this channel thanks for watching
Great video brother.
Thank you
wow, great way to look at the topic!
would love a crf300l Rally tho
people have made a crf500L
Thanks for watching
My first ADV bike was a 1979 Yamaha MX100. Several bikes in between, on road, off road, an off road racing career, a street instructing career, then a T7 in 2022. Full circle in my view. Adventure tag, versus dual purpose, dual sport, and remembering the origins of this off road/on road phenomena....the Yamaha DT. Is it about what it is called? The type of riding style. I was 14 then, now 57, and I ride the same trails, gravel roads and highways. The only real difference is that the T7 doesn't fit into the back of RCMP "police" cruiser taking me back to my home to report me to my parents. Riding motorcycles, an adventure in itself. I get the point of this video though, it tackles the concept of 50/50, when there really isn't such a thing. I have DRZE since 2002, kept it to have as a pair with my T7, for the real off road trails. After all that, I conclude it does come down to having two bikes, no way around that in the end. The DRZE , in my humble view was the closest anybody has come to the 50/50. Sure one more gear would be nice, but then if that were the case, my tranny wouldn't have lasted as long as it did so.....I close with this.....ground clearance. The truest test of a bike's off road capability. Anything lower that 12'' is just not quite enough, heavy or not, and in that department you can't have one without the other... in other words, smaller engine. Imagine a T7 with proper ground clearance and it would be top heavy, even more than it already is...I do look forward to the Suzuki twin 800 success stories, but really watch now for the newer, smaller ADV bikes....of the future.....
While I would be super excited for something like the AJP PR7, most people would not be. A single doesn't bother me at all. I ride a DR650 and have done big 12+ hr rides without ever thinking about the vibration but I also don't know what I'm missing. The short rides on my friends T7's have been insightful but didn't leave me questioning the single lyfe
Excellent points
Thank you
The KTM 690 oil change schedule is 6000 miles. The 2019 and newer is pretty low vibration with the extra balance shaft. I also have a steering damper on mine and this works pretty well. The other major complaint is the close ratio transmission, which really only shows up in first gear. It has an easy hydraulic clutch, so get a shorty 2-finger clutch lever and problem solved. I also have a drz400 which is quite buzzy, but the KTM 690 is not bad at all.
Have you experienced any false neutrals? How do you feel about the chassis and the weight placement? Curious about the steering stabilizer, how does the character change on the highway at higher speeds and have you balanced the wheels?
@@dualsportscandinavia353 I have not experienced false neutrals, but I understand this does NOT happen on ALL of the 690s. Some videos suggest that a different shift lever helps to make the shifting crisper. Another video indicates that there is a fix with a new internal shift spring, that eliminates the false neutrals.
I'm a literal 50/50 rider lol. I live off grid up in the mountains. Exactly half my commute is steep dirt twisties that are often washed out or blocked by landslides or snow. The other half is a twisty paved canyon run down into town.
Usually i end up riding 50/50 in the area as it's a pretty even mix of paved and dirt roads out in the valley. 5 miles or so of pavement to get out of town, a 10 mile stretch up to another 5-10 mile pavement stretch then more dirt across the valley until i hit the paved section leading back into the mountains.
It's like y'all forget rural Arizona exists lol, i prefer to ride on dirt, the longer the ride i do the more the dirt % rises but as a daily commute it's literally the mythical 50/50 ride.
I think everything you say makes sense. I have a 2012 V Strom 650 dl its a great bike. but want it to be more off-road oriented, I when i putted more 50/50 tires on it, I lose a lot on the road. At the end of the day I am a more 80/20 (80%street 20%off ) motorcyclist, I would like to be more than 50/50. but the truth is that you can't do it. because you have to give up things that make the bike good on one side.
Thanks for watching Cristhian
Your assessment is correct, that’s why I own a BMW F800GSA, Beta 300, and a Yamaha WR250F. Rarely ride the BMW off road.
How do you like that Beta vs the WR
Ha! I guessed KTM 690 too! And I think the ideal Adventure Bike CAN be built, if a manufacturer
puts a team together to design it.
Probably a cost thing Thanks for watching
DRZ500, 6 speed transmission would be a contender
If only Suzuki would make it
Spot on!!
Thank you
My KTM 890 Adventure R is very quickly becoming my 50/50 “everything” bike the better I get at riding it. At first it seemed very heavy and not meant for more technical dirt riding. But the more I learn to control the weight and power, the more nimble it seems off road. Plus, there’s nothing wrong with having different tools for different jobs. You can cut many things with a Swiss Army knife, but you’re not going to use it to carve a turkey. Lastly, the Husky 701 is already a fantastic lightweight adv bike if you truly want most of the things you’ve mentioned.
It has to have that " get out of trouble when you need " power
I have often felt that a twin cylinder KLR650, with a ninja 400 motor or something of the like, or maybe the old ninja 500 motor modernized would be great, but it would be over the weight size, the KLR stock is slow, but it also handles a little portly for what it is. I feel like a T7 is going to be my dream bike though
my thoughts at the end of the video - you are correct- you wouldn't set it up for 10% off road if you are 90% on road - however I argue - my tiger setup for offroad and although I only spend 20% of my time offroad that 20% gives me 80% of joy, fun and excitement so I don't mind the time on the road - you are right it's a compromise but setup it up for what gives you the most joy
Thank you
Great stuff
Thank you
It comes down to weight. Ridding a 350lb bike on the freeway sucks and ridding a 450lb on single track sucks too. Both can be down but it is what it is.
Oh and tires play a big part in this conversation
I guess they want us to buy 2 bikes
It's why I own two bikes. Versys 1000 for touring and carving up corners. KTM 890 R for everything else. I actually prefer it this way, than having one bike for everything.
I bet that 890r is sweet
I have an AJP PR7- 600cc, long travel suspension, great brakes, comfortable seat, 365 lbs and I can ride it on an MX track, single track or hundreds of miles from home with camping gear strapped to the back. I’ve found my unicorn 🤩
Has the AJP been reliable?
Job well done I really believe you nailed it
Thank you
I think you hit the nail on the head. I have 2 bikes with similar purposes to yours. One is a street legal dirt bike/enduro bike but I ride it 95% off-road where it excels. It can ride nicely on the road but it's electric so it's limited to 100km between charges. It can not take a passenger.
The other bike is a dual-purpose bike but heavily biased towards street riding which can manage a bit of trails but does it badly. It has a petrol engine so I can go further and take a passenger.
Thanks for sharing!
The answer is exactly that. Have more than one bike that can do what you're most likely to do. If you make long cross country trips that dip into the back country? Then get a KTM 890. Or if you mostly ride the back country and occasionally use tarmac to get there then get the KTM 690 or hell the 500.
I just want them to put twin tanks of the 450L and a rally tower for styling. Call it the 450L rally... then make it around the tenere price tag. I'd buy a single with twin tanks and rally looks. Hell yeah... unfortunately if I want a rally bike atm, I'm looking at spending 30k.
The 690 enduro doesn't flex like an enduro bike and it is not that buzzy. it also can go 10k kms between oil changes. don't let the "enduro" wording fool you. It is a road bike with off-road pedigree. And the lack of flex is notorious in technical terrain, when compared to a ktm500exc.
Thanks for watching and commenting
Your right. Its a marketing scam in the same way that we drive "trail ready" SUVs and trucks with an off-road package. Most don't use these vehicles off-road and when they do, the factory set-ups tend to break easily. Personally, I prefer ADV bikes because its nice to have a vehicle that is stable and able to handle poor road and climate conditions.
I wasn't afraid to take my ZX9R on dirt roads. You just have to move to the other side of the bike in turns like you're riding a dirt bike. I'll never forget when my buddy and I took a gravel road shortcut through Black Hills of SD on our trip from CA to Indy for the F1 race. We were power drifting around a big sweeper when we passed a bunch of National Guardsmen doing whatever they were doing in a flat area on the inside of the turn. They all did a double-take. LOL!!! That was the LAST thing they expected to see out there, two crotch rockets not giving a you-know-what! XD
I took an R1 off road once
I owned an KTM690, it was 2008 and I rode it over 62,000 miles. Mostly trouble free. Replaced three speedo modules, they failed do to vibration. I replaced the muffler to reduce weight. Three header pipes, they fell apart.
You make a great point about 50/50 rider. Very few motorcyclists even approach that. Lots of dual sport riders trailer to locations, despite having a plate and ability. Adventure folks are obviously the opposite, the fear of hurting the bike or themselves prevents riding too deep into the woods.
I am however the 50/50 unicorn. I want to ride hours on pavement to ride hours of nasty trails. I’m also a cheap ass so this WR250R will have to do until I figure out how to jam a cb500x engine into an XR650L chassis.
The reason most people won't buy a 690/701 is because it has a close ratio transmission, too little turning radius, no good way to carry luggage and a fuel tank that brings complaints from everyone for several reasons.
I want a better engine than a KTM and I'd be down to buy it.
Yea that too