Harley charging $500 for black paint doesn't mean they're struggling, it means they think the consumer is stupid. They'll charge you for anything they think you're willing to pay for. You pay $500 for paint, pretty soon it's going to be $295 for HD Air (tm) in the tires.
@@garcjr Because you can’t sell a $30k bike to a generation with mechanic special 883 money. You can however sell them all on a $30 T-shirt when they come looking for a new handlebar. There’s a greater profit margin in PG&A than new bike sales anyways. Might as well lean into it, building loyalty, and run with it till economic situations improves enough to bother focusing on the bikes themselves.
MmmNO, here in the states, we need to turn motorcycles from a luxury device in to a more common means of transportation. My wife and I do some, 20% - 25% of our grocery shopping on our bikes. We also ride to work on our bikes. We also take our bikes out to eat, see friends, see new places or places we've been before. They're also great therapy. Motorcycles need to be considered more of an alternative means of transportation than a luxury device.
I haven’t owned a car in over 5 years now. If they get re-labeled I fear the insurance will go up as insurance right now is assuming limited street time.
“If HD are struggling then everyone is struggling”? No. They have been propped up by governments since the 80’s otherwise they’d be long gone. When I say propped up this includes import tariffs. An example being Australia’s now non existent car manufacturing industry, when we once had 5 different global companies (all propped up by our governments as it counted for votes). Now we get cars at a much cheaper price as we don’t have an industry to protect. Emissions regulations will ultimately kill off HD as today they still sell well in Australia which is slightly behind Europe with emissions regulations.
It's the same with automobiles, my dad just bought a `24 Ford Bronco Sport for just over $32k, it has the Big Bend pkg which is pretty much the plain jane version and it still cost that much. I feel not long ago you could've easily purchased it for around $25k but they've added all this new tech into it. It does have a rear camera which honestly is a good thing but IMO needs to be optional, they include all sorts of drivers aids which honestly are a complete nuisanse. I ended up turning off lane helper assist, if you get too close to the edge or driving around a turn it slightly adjusts the steering wheel automatically for you, I couldn't completely disable but now it has haptic feedback in the steering wheel, another is the auto stop feature, they do have a button to disable it but resets itself everytime you restart, it also has GPS for tracking the vehicle, the dealer said we would have to connect the phone to use navigation but I can literally track the vehicle using the Ford Pass app, also remote start and unlock the doors, again needs to be optional features. Actually now with motorcycles there is a resurgance where people want to get back to basics, I would like ABS, charging port and maybe some type of GPS navigation and that's about it. The everyday rider doesn't need all the different riding modes or even adjusting the suspension electronically.
Here in Australia, where the motorcycle market is more than twice as big as the US on a per capita basis, small bikes are king. 8 of of the 10 top selling bikes were 660cc or lower according to the last available report. The majority of Uber Eats riders are rocking a CB125 & the Duke 200 & 390 are the most popular commuter bike by a long margin, with the smaller CFMOTO's slowly catching up. Even Triumph is having serious issues in supplying the demand for their new 400's. The motorcycle industry isn't screwed, but it seems that the Indian & Chinese motorcycle manufacturers have been faster to react to the market changes than the traditional manufacturers.
I'm in Australia, too. That middleweight segment certainly seems to be growing. I think that's partly due to learner laws but also because there are a lot of really good bikes in that segment that old farts like me are comfortable on and they're bikes that we like. RE's, Vstrom 650's, SV's... they all just make too much sense. And low capacity bikes make a heap of sense for inner city apartment dwellers. And let's not forget, they're relatively "cheap". These are austere times that we're living in. Price point sensitivity is very much a thing. Smaller, moderately performing bikes are cheaper in every way than their big bore siblings.
@@davidzavala337 Fuel prices are higher here in Australia, hence the small capacity motorcycles. We pay around $5 USD per gallon for our cheapest petrol with 10% ethanol. If your bike or car needs high octane fuel you're paying a lot more. But that's not why Uber Eats are so expensive. Here in Australia they take 35% of the total from the restaurant as a service fee. The only way restaurants can survive is by charging higher prices fo Uber customers than those who visit the restaurant.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 And they're just as capable. My Aprilia Shiver is my weapon of choice when I go for a ride in the twisties, but my Duke 200 is my first choice for commuting to work because it's faster & more nimble in traffic. It's even outrun a McLaren on The Seven Ways from a standing start at the lights on Bay St in Rockdale, much to the driver's displeasure. And a mate bought a Benelli Leoncino 500 in Kempsey last year & I had the unenviable task of riding it back to Sydney for him. With half the power of the Aprilia it still had no problem running at highway speeds & was such a hoot to ride I may have taken a few "scenic routes" on the way back.
Why wonder? Just look up the stats. The number of on-road motorcycles registered in the U.S. has been generally increasing throughout the years, approximately doubling from 4.3 million in 2002 to 8.6 million in 2021 . that's from the IIHS
It is pure greed. I have a BMW R1200GS and I can’t do the oil changes myself because you have to have the electronic reprogramming tool to reset the oil change light. Meanwhile, riders on that same bike in the EU can go into the menu options and just reset it at no charge. This is driven by local laws and BMW is screwing us. That’s why my next bike was a Honda that I can do all of the work myself.
Where do you live? I think not being able to reset the oil change light on a vehicle is actually illegal in the USA. There are also other ways around it. You could disassemble your cluster and remove or paint over the light. They can't fail your vehicle for inspection for an oil change light. Maybe you have a cell phone screen cluster. I'd put freakin' tape over it, literally
I have a 2013 r1200GS and I use a obd1 with the connector to reset the service light and look at other diagnostics on the motorcycle… these service fees are utterly ridiculous so I do what I can on my own including tire changes and even checking the valves which I will do on my 120000 mile service… plus it gives u a change to greatly get to know ur bike as well but get the obd1 and connector u can’t go wrong…
You can reset the service yourself if you buy the tool (Motoscan, I think, it was ~90 bucks when I bought mine). Not great, but better than my Tuono 660; there's no option to reset the light other than the dealer. :(
Glad you called that (color) what it is - PRIMER Grey !!! They do this on bikes and also vehicles now. Every time I see one, I am thinking - someone actually CHOSE that color ???? WTF Are they planning on (completing) the paint job, lol ?? Primer is what goes on the metal (before) the actual color.
I agree. Thats not a color! If you like your bike, why not let it be seen. If its black, you can't even tell the shape of it. My bike is orange and I love it!! 🤗
It's a topic of economy. Corporate profits are rising exponentially, and cost of living is rising, yet wages have been stagnant for decades. As far as increased amount of tech on vehicles in general, that's just companies lobbying for more regs to stomp out the competition.
The US dollar literally inflated ~23% total over the last 4 years. Whatever the base price on bikes were 4 years ago, add 23% and that cost is just due to the dollar being worth less. It may not be 1-1 exactly, but it's also a big reason for rising costs.
Harley wanted $685 for a 5000 service??? They said "it takes more oil"... i said, so does my peterbuilt, and the oil change is cheaper ... so i did it myself, and filmed it.
@@danieldoyle253 Not in the USA... its protected by law, and they cannot legally void the warranty. They fought it in court a long time, but Harley finally gave up and took their loss. They cannot void your warranty... car companies cannot either, you are free to service anywhere you want.
@@danieldoyle253no it doesn’t. Who ever told you that lied to you. It is illegal for a dealer in the USA to void a warranty simply because you did your own servicing.
Old school, second hand, cheap bikes are what the cool kids are riding these days. Even cooler kids buy a maintenance manual / watch TH-cam videos and maintain their own ride. Buy something Japanese and be happy.
6:20 I disagree with that. On my 2022 KTM 1290 SAS i constantly use the adaptive cruise control when riding in groups because it DOES notice the motorcycle in front of itself and makes it much easier to keep a constant distance without that normal on and off acceleration that you do when trying to match someone else's speed.
Most of the country is struggling affording groceries and housing. Until the economy is fixed, no amount of marketing, features or styling is going to put more bikes on the road.
yeah it's frustrating. I want a newer gold wing or a newer FJR and it's kind of tough to find one that isn't a billion dollars. Don't even get me started on the Harleys. THANKS FOR HAVING JESS ON WITH YOU
The one that really gets me is "Take it to the track" (often said by your former partner Spite). And while I do agree with the advice, there's a VERY obvious reason why most people don't do that. having just done my first track day, it's VERY expensive, 100's per day, 1000's in safety gear, a huge hassle (and possibly very expensive) to get insurance for your bike on a track. So, sure, take it to the track if you have the means, but it's kind of hard to fault the kid for twisting his wrist a little longer to see 100 on the speedo.
The cheapest track day I can do is a drag strip. That's still 1k in a full suit, $70 to race, wear and tear on tires, and some special mods to meet safety criteria. Track days are worse and they are usually on weekdays... So loss of work income too
Ya, that Yam guy even said on one of his videos that he doesn't like riders that don't do track days! Where I live there isn't a track for hundreds of miles so I guess he doesn't like me! He also has a problem with riders take their bikes to go to the store. I am all ways thinking of things to go to the store for. Its a good excuse to go go riding for an hour and I don't think there is ant thing wrong with that! Cheers! 😁
There's a dealership here in the DFW area called Mint Motorcycles, they are charging, last I looked, 12k for a used R7, no mods, and 4 figure mileage on it. So is there now ->NO
2009, one model year production, MV Agusta F4 1078 312 RR, $25k base, $35k upgrades to get it where it needs to be, just sold for $12.7k, that is the price you pay if and only if your willing to wait
@marcusvalentin5485 those are two completely different bikes. The 10k ninja 400 is the inline four they have a cheap twin 400 is only about 1k different. I know because my local kawasaki/suzuki dealer is also a cf moto dealer and the prices for comparable bikes are not that big of a price gap. That's why I walked out with a suzuki and it was an extra $800 well spent. You can say what you want but the small savings isn't worth giving up reliability and aftermarket support
Depends what you’re looking for. Theses $20k+ bikes are something we never had in the past, they’re insane. Just picked up a new 24 GSX S1000 for $12k out the door with tax, which is a helluva deal for the what you get!
Consider this: the GT I bought was just $2K more with bags and the bigger fairing. Suzuki has had a long history of refining known tech instead of trying to reinvent everything for every new year model.
"Most people can't afford a $30,000 motorcycle" - Nobody buys a Harley for transportation. They're jewelry for a social club, and a status symbol. If you need transportation you can get a very good used bike for $3000 to $5000 max.
The younger generation is very risk-averse. especially financially. They need options in motorcycles that feel like good value for money and right now all they're pumping out is expensive flagship bikes. Even on the less expensive versions you won't see very many of them in dealerships. base model BMWs are a myth They don't exist you'll never see one in a dealership. I also disagree I think you're going to start seeing an increase in people buying motorcycles as primary transportation and not just the luxury item. especially as places become more urbanized and cars get more and more expensive and unattainable people are going to start looking at motorcycles a whole different way. I know I had to That's the only reason I ever got into riding. My car started falling apart and I knew that I needed to replace it but I also knew that I wasn't in a financial position to do so but I still needed to be able to get to work. at the same time gas was going to $5 a gallon and I couldn't afford to fill the car so I bought something that was small but still functional cheap and good on gas. aka a CFMoto 300NK. But that's the kind of buyer that the motorcycle industry is currently ignoring for the most part because while the smaller bikes are selling more units they're not as profitable per unit. you have two different ways you can go with that. you can do the Harley route and only sell big expensive bikes and just sell fewer of them but with higher profit margins per unit sold. and you can focus on people who have disposable income even if that is a smaller market. or you can make quality simple but functional motorcycles like some of the Japanese manufacturers and CFMoto are doing. run the risk of making smaller amount of profits per unit but producing more units and using that bulk to create your profit. BMW and Yamaha are also focusing on their more expensive motorcycles to get their profits. you almost never see an MT03 in a dealership, But that same dealership will be stacked with 600s and 1000s wall to wall. so even if it manufacturer technically sells something cool and functional and inexpensive they often don't actually produce it in any sort of numbers.
Spite you are absolutely right about the beginner bikes on offer. I just watched a video about Triumphs 400 offering and they look amazing. I unfortunately had to give up riding due to a quadruple heart bypass, so now I watch channels like yours and Jess's. Keep up the great videos!
@@petekeller1424 I thought about that option but with all the meds I'm on my hands a feet go numb without warning. I watch AMSR videos of bike rides. My favourite is Ride to Food, it's a Sportster riding through some of the most beautiful areas. I live in Ireland now and even if I could ride you deal with alot of unexpected rain and people in cars who don't pay attention.
I'm going to say it... Young people in general are scared. My daughter(20) rides and she only does because the rest of her family does. She got a crf70 when she was 9. She didn't start super young like some kids ,but she did ride 4wheelers. She's in college now and she has said most kids there ride groms/z125s or scooters not a lot of actual full size motorcycles.(She rides a SV650X) Every conversation she has with somebody when they first find out she has a motorcycle is are you afraid of dying or I know someone that died riding a motorcycle or something along those lines. Kids are not as adventurous or curious as they used to be. I'm not sure what can be done to get the kids on bikes. Hell there are kids that graduated with my daughter in highschool that have never even rode a bicycle.
I started riding on road at 16... I'm 22 now... I see like no one my age riding at all, like zero. Most people I talk to my age and a bit younger think I'm stupid for having a motorcycle.
@@AyaWettsthat's what my kid says. It's almost weird for her when she's off campus and comes across another rider under 30. Cost is a factor on new bikes but you can always find a deal on used bikes. I think younger people look at riding a bike as too much as a risk. I think with being inundated with death and crashes online that's the first thing people think about.
To ride a motorcycle you must first ride a bicycle, but riding a bicycle is a lot more dangerous these days even in a "safe" suburban neighborhood; the fatality rate of pedestrians and bicyclists has nearly doubled in just the past decade. These people didn't just drop their bikes; a driver struck them. So the college person with a Grom makes a lot of sense; the riders are playing catch-up for years without a bicycle. I call it the domination of the car. The car is used for everything but it dominates spaces with its mortal danger; thus kids avoid adventure because they either need a car to do anything or they might be struck by a driver if they aren't in a car.
I grabbed myself a Grom a couple of years ago, and I consistently put twice the miles of my Harley on that thing. The best part is, I'm not the only one. I met a bunch of Harley dudes in my area that have mini motos that are exactly the same way.
I could see small bikes in urban areas but where i live it’s all highways connecting the towns and small bikes just don’t cut it comfortably. I live in the PNW so I might be biased but I see more adventure bikes than anything due to the mountains and people wanting to get out and about.
I think one of the big things is the safety issue with everyone not paying attention and vehicles getting larger and heavier. I got hit by a f250 while on my multistrada and while that didnt stop me from riding, 3 of my friends saw what happened and decided to hang it up. To many people dont pay attention while driving now the risk is just getting higher and higher people dont wanna take the chances.
I personally don't see electric bikes going anywhere. Tons of car manufacturers are cutting back EV production 10x. EV sales are down over 40%, and bike dealers can't get rid of electric bikes. Which is fine by me. I hope the whole EV thing dies out, honestly. There is nothing that can replace the I.C.E anywhere in the near future.
That doesn’t seem to be the case here in Seattle- tons of millennials and gen z run rampant on the ubiquitous Lime scooters( completely ignoring any sort of “rules of the road”( or sidewalk) of course w/o a helmet ( bc “helmet laws are racist😅). E bikes are close behind. And of course anyone with a pulse can ride one so there are no barriers to entry…
At least with BMW's you get your money's worth for the most part when you purchase a higher priced bike. Unlike HD where you pay top dollar for chrome and the logo.
The U.S. motorcycle industry, while still significant, has been experiencing some shifts compared to other countries around the world: Key differences and trends: Market maturity: The U.S. motorcycle market is considered mature, with a large existing motorcycle population and a focus on replacement sales rather than rapid growth. In contrast, many Asian and developing countries are experiencing faster growth due to increasing disposable incomes and motorcycle adoption for transportation. Dominant brands: The U.S. market has traditionally been dominated by domestic brands like Harley-Davidson and Indian Motorcycle, known for their large-displacement cruisers and touring bikes. However, international brands like Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, BMW, and Ducati are also popular, offering diverse motorcycle types to cater to different preferences. Shifting demographics: The average age of motorcycle riders in the U.S. is increasing, posing a challenge for attracting younger riders. Conversely, many other countries have younger rider demographics, which drives demand for different motorcycle types like sportbikes and smaller-displacement models. Electric motorcycles: The global rise of electric motorcycles is also impacting the industry. While the U.S. market is gradually adopting electric motorcycles, other countries, particularly in Asia and Europe, are witnessing faster adoption due to government incentives and environmental concerns. Market size: While the U.S. market remains substantial, it is no longer the largest globally. Countries like China, India, and Indonesia have significantly larger motorcycle markets due to their sheer population size and the role of motorcycles in transportation. Overall: The U.S. motorcycle industry is undergoing a transition, with changing demographics, evolving preferences, and the increasing presence of international brands. While the market remains important, it faces challenges in attracting younger riders and adapting to the growing popularity of electric motorcycles. In contrast, many other countries are experiencing faster growth and diversification in the motorcycle industry. In short, the more people don't want it to change, the worse it's going to get.
When I got my Trident in 22, I was looking at all of the middleweight options, and had to basically accept the fact there were no options available for 10K out the door with all fees n BS included.
I think things are a lot better now than they were 2 or 3 years ago. Supply problems meant popular bikes (like MT07 or 09) were hard to find + dealers had so many inflated additional charges. I was in a local dealer a couple of months ago and they had 2024 Suzuki GSX 8S models on the floor for $5999 + reasonable shipping/setup/licensing fees so deals are available for even the newest models.
I'd love a Nightster Special... seems so great, but heard so many stories of them being problematic, plus HD trying to nickle and dime everyone to death.
The Livewire is awesome , until you get rear ended at a stop sign and you've been waiting 4 months for the Harley dealer to fix it and there is still no ETA on some parts from the Mo Co.
I find the lots of inexpensive beginner bikes statement to be a bit misleading. I recently looked at a Grom, $3900 msrp + it had addons and fees + there will be sales tax. $6200 OTD price for a $3900 bike is crazy!(freight 300, setup 800, service 275, addon parts 486, doc 85, 8.5% sales tax). The affordable list prices are nothing like what you are paying, it's totally misleading, almost 40% in additional fees.
What gets me is they keep raising the prices every single year on the same motorcycles that haven't been updated in several years. 600's now cost over 12k with abs, and 1000's are 16-19k. It used to be 7k & 12-13k about 10yrs ago. That's substantial considering the percentage increase. They're pricing themselves out of the market to try and make up for lower sales.
Its called inflation and its all across the Globe and has been because of "Free trade". Trucks are even more outrageous. $75K is the norm for a full size truck. Even used you are looking at $40K or more. There is no way I could justify paying more than $35K for a truck for personal use and even that is too much.
I bought a used 2004 Moto Guzzi 750 for less than 3.5k, and having a blast for last three seasons of riding it ! I don’t want to spend a lot of money on motorcycles. It’s possible to spend less and still have fun, which I prefer.
Here in the Netherlands people are actually buying more bikes than before. And about the KTM moving to china thing; I heard that this has also to do with them wanting to sell bikes in China itself, through CFMoto. But the manufacturer demanded that they would also take responsibility for building bikes for markets such as Europe. Not sure about this one, but I don’t think the motorcycle market is dying yet
im 35. when I was in hs (2006) you could pick up a 600 super sport used from craigslist for 3 grand, and it wasn't a pos. 2010ish same thing was 5k-8k today unless your buying a 12 year old bike you won't get those prices. im assuming with things like abs,tct, digital dashes, and the technology and what it takes to produce that has raised the prices along w/ inflation and other things. but I watch my younger family members struggle to just buy a bike these days vs when I was getting into it. it was called the broke mans way to go fast. now its the privileged. with disposable income during a depressions luxury.
There are so many good bikes for 15k or less New it's crazy. You used to pay extra for chrome but now the paint and no chrome is extra. The Grey on Harleys is definitely a nice color.
I think this is the exact topic for the current situation. I'm not sure where this is going to go, but I do appreciate the number of low used mileage Harley's out there.
Mint 86 Goldwing Interstate for 1400.00 that sat twenty years and after about 500 in parts and some elbow grease , I have a great bike to ride and I couldnt be happier not to mention its the greatest bike I have ever owned in my 60 years . Moral of the story is you dont need a lot of money to get a good bike
In india we are blessed with tons of entry level middle weight bikes like Triumph Speed 400/ 400X, Harley x440, KTM 390 lineup, Aprilia RS457, and few offerings from local manufacturers like Bajaj, Hero Motocorp and Royal Enfield.
Just bought a Royal Enfield SM 650 and I really appreciate the simplicity and robust nature of the 650 engine. Congrats to India for making such a great motorcycle.
They aren't entry level in India for majority of young folk though. They are aspirational. India is just starting its journey of leisure rider motorcyclists and motorcycling is far from dead. Think numbers in USA might be going uo as well actually.
Especially young dudes who live in inner city areas with good access to public transport. My son is 26. He didn't bother getting his driver's license until he was 21. He only owned a car for a year or so and barely drove it. The tram stop is just around the corner from where he lives and that's how he gets to work or to the train. It doesn't faze him.
@@spitescorner Harley's new CEO wants Harley to be an "aspirational" brand. You know what that means LOL 😁. Also , have you heard about Harley forcing all kinds of dealerships to close down? I think it'll all backfire in the long run, but they're running with it
@@spitescorner - the marketing may be blue collar but it definitely the doctors lawyer, bankers, company execs and successful company owners who are buying them - at least buying them new. The prices for new HD's are way beyond the budget of most young riders. I fall into the "I can afford to buy one if I really want one" category but I don't have an emotional connection to them so to me I think they are simply very overpriced for what they are and so I'll keep schlepping along on my FJR1300 which to me is a bike that represents great value for money.
@@Jagshemasher Yeah, the whole "blue collar" Harley thing was only true briefly in the late 1940's when there were cheap Army surplus bikes flooding the market. The fact that Harley can continue to levitate that myth in the face of $26,000 motorcycles is the 8th wonder of the world.
My son just bought a 2024 MT09 for under 11k. There have always been boutique brands. I have an Aprilia, a Moto Guzzi, and a BMW. All three cost me more than a better-performing more reliable Japanese brand. The industry is the best shape in history. There are offerings for almost any price point.
Ive been looking for something really cheap to ride and used bike prices are nuts. Stuff that doesnt run and is half take apart they want 3k for....... R3s,400s and other starter bikes listed for MSRP prices after having 3-4k miles on them used..... I want to get into riding bikes and already bought most of my gear and registered for the test but cheap starter bikes just dont exist.
"The bike has a slight scratch on the fairing" Looks at bike and the entire side of the bike has deep scratches from a low side. Marketplace is full of clowns like that.
Something to think about, as I mentioned in a reply to another comment, brands like Suzuki may not have the top dollar revenue in mind where they takes years of refinement to their existing tech and continue with it instead of having an insane R&D cost to remake everything for new models, and they have other revenue streams for cars in the Asian market, so they don't have a reputation for being a "niche market". The most expensive and extreme they get is the Hayabusa, GSX R an S are cheap and ubiquitous in the marketplace. One doesn't need a HD, Indian, Ducati, BMW or Aprilia to enjoy riding, unless you value "prestige brands", they're the Coach Bags of motorcycles. In the other comment reply, I stated that for my GSXS1000GT+, hard bags and all, cost me a little over 13K out the door. Also, I can wrench on it myself for basic things like oil, filter, spark plugs, brake pads etc. without having to go to a dealer for service and saving a lot of money. To reset the service indicator, all it takes is a bent paperclip. However, for major things like valve adjustments, I'm letting a pro do it.
Here's another thought. Go with black plastic fuel tanks, fenders, trim, and forego painting anything except the frame and engine black. Or polish frame and engine, after chroming it. HD is out dated, time to get rid of tins, and paint jobs.... aerated paint applications isn't doing our environment any good. Better if they changed procedures, and dipped the parts in paint, like the automotive industry does.
I want to go back to the year 2000. Motorcycles are trying to do too much. BE a motorcycle. 2 wheels. Lots of power. Limited electronics. And AFFORDABLE
Lots of excellent early to mid 2000 options on the used market for kick ass prices, especially in the Japanese cruiser and muscle bike category. Their reliability and easy maintenance (on most) make it a no brainer at least for me.
@thegreenman2030 exactly. Manufacturers need to get back to the basics. Make simple powerful fun machines. 99% of riders will never "use" The machine to need all of the electronics.
Luckily, you can buy good bikes for reasonable prices from almost any era you like. I recently bought a 1980 Honda and it's great fun to ride and about as practical for transportation as my Yamaha. I'm only going to stable it for the winter because then I'd prefer to have the TC and ABS on my ride.
35M live in BC Canada. Been riding bikes for the last 7 yrs. I have an 08 Shadow 750 and a 23 Vstrom 800de. Both of these bikes even with the Vstrom brand new still cost me less than an a lowrider ST and saved almost 10k WTF! I have test road the ST and would buy if it wasn't 30K+ out the door here. I tour and offroad on my Vstrom, it does it just great. I would like to have a Harley but they are just that much more expensive and doesn't make sense to me.
You can literally buy 2 motorcycles for the price of any Harley. And… HD has 1950 technology even when they add some new stuff…. All still look the same too. They can’t keep up to Europe and Asia . I’m surprised they still exist.
Just because HD is struggling DOESNT mean other brands are. They are suffering from outdated bikes, huge price premiums and a nasty stigma that they created. It’s not an industry problem. It’s a HD problem.
The market/ power necessity/ reallity is completely different from the US, but over here in Europe big bikes are dying out in favor of 125cc bikes and scooter. In my country specifically in the last 5 years there were as many 125cc bikes sold as all the other cc combine, they are affordable, easy to bet on, fuel efficient and on most cases they have enough power to scut arround
Motorcycles have gotten too expensive, but they are toys in America. The good thing is, companies are now selling good performing daily bikes like the RS660,GSX8R, R7 and many others coming into this category of value driven machine.
3-4k will probably get you an immaculate 20yr old Japanese motorcycle that looks like new with a full service history and low mileage , wether it's a sports , tourer or cruiser. Look after it and that's probably all you'll ever need with guaranteed performance and reliability.
@@Robert-xs2mv I ride my bikes far more days than I drive my truck, but when I drive my truck it's usually to go a long distance to do some task, so in the end I probably ride 5 days for every 1 day I drive but I have 10,000 miles on my truck since buying it last September but only about 7000 on my bikes combined since then.
HD is charging $ 500.00 for 'vivid black' paint...and HD buyers are paying for it. It speaks volumes about both the greed of the company and the patent idolatry of its buyers.
My current bike is battery powered. Fast as hell and cheaper than any big bike. Two cents a mile to charge. The bike industry is not dying, its changing
I think there a glut of motorcycles. I check FB marketplace and Craigslist every day and the same 100's of used bikes are still for sale by both dealers and private sellers. And they've been for sale for well over 6 months if not a year. The prices are pretty good too and they aren't moving. Raising prices seems like a bad idea.
Maybe they should offer more basic-deluxe packages pay for accesories system, i drive sportbikes and while they still seem reasonable im worried theyll add unnecessary features to drive prices up since sales arent as big in the states
I noticed a long time ago (20 years? about 40 riding) that the cost of the bike didn't really reflect my enjoyment. Actually, in extreme cases I had much LESS fun on a $12~15k motorcycle (back when that was the upper tier limit, basically the $25k bikes today) than on my normal $2~3k motorcycles. Fear of damage and monetary loss really did me in when owning/riding those bikes. But let me pick up a $1000 600, put $500 into it with tires, brakes, chain, etc.... and I have NO problems wringing it's neck out. Toss it down the track, or put a rod through the case and I've only lost at Most the $1500 spent, but it pretty much always turned out that I made money selling the good parts to others. Bless the people who buy new, because they feed the used market. But I'll never buy new again. Being from the age of carbs and points, I don't care for or want rider modes, digital dashes, or any of the new things that distract from the core riding experience, Especially as a street and dirt only rider now. Older motorcycles that people put out to pasture, like my current Aprilia Caponord that I bought for $100, provide me with all the same riding joy that those on $20k BMW GSes get.
A 2005 HD Road Glide had an MSRP of $17,735. A 2024 Road Glide is $25,999. Accounting for inflation thats actually CHEAPER than the 2005 model. It would theoretically cost $28,520 now.
in my opinion flagship bikes aren't going anywhere. I'd fully expect manufacturers to shift more towards smaller bikes as their main income, but having fast high end bikes is too powerful of a marketing tool to get rid of at the very least.
A S1000RR with the options of ABS, Traction controll and a quick shifter was 17.851€ when it was released in 2009. Adjusted to inflation, this would be 26.000€ in todays money. And bikes got obviusly way better with much more tech and so on. So no, I don't think bikes got more expensive. I actually think they got cheaper
The only hd I would consider would be an evo, due to workability. But having a flashed V Star 1300 and Raider, I don't think I could go so far back in displacement, and increased maintenance. Hell my Silver Wing scooter is a rocket and would smoke most harleys. HD is on life support, and they need to pull the plug.
Yes they have. When it costs as much as an SUV with a fraction of the material input its way way too expensive. Companies need to figure out what colours are and lose the tech. If you can't control the bike without rider modes and all the other stuff then you shouldn't be on the bike. Accept you are not a professional and get a bike accordingly.
Tried to get a BASIC bike and it ended up being 3/4 of the cost of a brand new Nissan Versa. Profits are soaring and everything is going up but the WORKING persons pay.
"The US is a pretty large country where we need a lot of power to move around." - Eh? Does not compute. Why would you need a lot of power to go far? A 250 will easily get you to speed limit and beyond. Plus, a lot of roads over there are flat and straight. How on earth is that supposed to require more power than in Europe, where roads wind between fields, along streams and around hills as they were for centuries, or even in an alpine region, where you constantly have to brake and accelerate over mountain roads, going up and down steep inclines. I got a CBR650 last year. Cost me around 10000. Whenever asked about that, the followup question is always: "New?" - it's much cheaper than people expect. And compared to the bicycle I bought the same year (for 2500), it's an outright bargain. 95HP, ABS, traction control, full LED lighting, great suspension (albeit non-adjustable), fulfills EURO5 emission standards... I don't think it's expensive at all. I also considered getting a Fireblade. Now that IS expensive.
A lot of super valid points made, certainly in the states motorcycling is a fragile thing, like vacationing it would be first to go during a recession. However I’m not sure if I see Harley Davidson as a market indicator like the Dow Jones. Harley has been declining for a long time as they don’t appeal to the younger buyers.
XSR900 has an MSRP of 10k, 6 axis ride aides, cruise control, quick shifter, auto blip, digital display, and it handles and rides great. Fast enough not to be boring.
That’s kinda of the point though. Drop all that unnecessary tech and it would be 8k. I work at an Aprilia dealer and a few days ago I had the pleasure of riding an 08 FZ-06 that doesn’t have any of that tech. Guess what? It was amazing! Bikes of that era have everything you need and nothing you don’t. Oh, and that screaming buttery smooth inline 4 😎 not a boring, vibrating twin…
@brandonzm1122 I think newer riders appreciate the tech. You can always turn it off. It would be interesting to see a manufacturer offer the same bike with analog gauges for 2k less than the one with all the tech and see how they sold. I'd think more people want the tech than don't. If people want cheaper less techy bikes, used bikes are a dime a dozen on facebook. The XSR900 is a 3 cylinder. It's pretty torquey and fun and easy to ride. Pretty quick to about 100 mph and the engine is pretty great IMO.
My adaptive cruise on my R1300GS has no issues seeing motorcycles ahead of me. Use it all the time when we get on a stretch and the lead rider is ahead of me.
@@Jagshemasher she said the radar their BMW 1800 wouldn't detect motorcycles, and I am refuting that . Something is wrong with her bike if that is true.
It reminds me of the hatchback/crossover car market surge when all the tax increases were hitting the SUV and Truck market for the first time. Everyone wants something that can do it all at an affordable cost and for good reason. I suppose that’s why cfmoto is doing so well and also why a company like BMW doesn’t make a middle weight sport bike. It’d end up costing 15k plus for a 10k market.
Are you faimilar with he BMW F900r? I would definitely consider that a middle weight naked sport bike. and its price is actually not obscene. But the maintenance costs? Well that could be debated.
@@spartanx169x yes that’s a naked bike that’s heavier than my mt09, more expensive and less powerful. I meant something with fairings, and a little more power, less weight. Like a 130hp s1000rr
The biggest problem with manufacturers is getting products out to the consumer. They have been talking about the Himalayan 450 coming soon for over a year. Still nothing in dealers. The Transalp was a big thing, but only in our imaginations unless we were a TH-cam celebrity. Nothing available, but 2 TH-camrs went down and bought one the same day. Try finding a Honda Trail 125. I can get 20 Groms from the same dealer, but no 125. Had the money, and went to a dealer to get the bike. Showed 3 in stock. Got there, and the only one in the dealership was sold and only half assembled. The other two were still on order, and already sold. How many times can you be disappointed before you go another route?
Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Assist? Does the Motorcycle version do Lane Assist? Next they need an auto outrigger for stopping at lights. W/Lane Assist, I can almost read the newspaper (Never did!) while following the fastest driver on the highway (Hopefully he get's the ticket!) except for the "Please Place Hands On the Wheel".
Harley charging $500 for black paint doesn't mean they're struggling, it means they think the consumer is stupid. They'll charge you for anything they think you're willing to pay for. You pay $500 for paint, pretty soon it's going to be $295 for HD Air (tm) in the tires.
Can you buy one without paint? Last I checked, black was the cheapest color paint.
@@jimstenlund6017 Thiats what the grey is. Clear coat the primer, give it a polish and call it "Gunship Grey". 😆
@@Yamobethere It’s just marketing strategy. Primer comes in black too.
@@jimstenlund6017 Didn't Henry Ford say about his cars that you could have them in any colour as long as it is black ?
HD "black" premium air
HD to me is turning into a t-shirt and apparel company more than anything else.
I've heard other people say it's more like a K-Mart now and only a small portion to bikes.
@@garcjr Because you can’t sell a $30k bike to a generation with mechanic special 883 money. You can however sell them all on a $30 T-shirt when they come looking for a new handlebar. There’s a greater profit margin in PG&A than new bike sales anyways. Might as well lean into it, building loyalty, and run with it till economic situations improves enough to bother focusing on the bikes themselves.
It's been like that for a long time
Not is. Did. Already happened.
I wanted a Harley but ended up buying a Honda. It made sense.
MmmNO, here in the states, we need to turn motorcycles from a luxury device in to a more common means of transportation. My wife and I do some, 20% - 25% of our grocery shopping on our bikes. We also ride to work on our bikes. We also take our bikes out to eat, see friends, see new places or places we've been before. They're also great therapy. Motorcycles need to be considered more of an alternative means of transportation than a luxury device.
One more thing, yes the prices need to come down so more people can get on them.
I haven’t owned a car in over 5 years now. If they get re-labeled I fear the insurance will go up as insurance right now is assuming limited street time.
@timlubbers2884 maybe where you live, but I'm guessing a majority of bike riders park their bikes come November.
@@csolivais1979 hence the reason for my previous post …
@@csolivais1979 hence the reason for my previous post …
Black used to be the basic color you didn't have to pay extra for
What is the basic color now?
@@adammfharrisPrimer 😂
“If HD are struggling then everyone is struggling”? No. They have been propped up by governments since the 80’s otherwise they’d be long gone. When I say propped up this includes import tariffs. An example being Australia’s now non existent car manufacturing industry, when we once had 5 different global companies (all propped up by our governments as it counted for votes). Now we get cars at a much cheaper price as we don’t have an industry to protect. Emissions regulations will ultimately kill off HD as today they still sell well in Australia which is slightly behind Europe with emissions regulations.
It's the same with automobiles, my dad just bought a `24 Ford Bronco Sport for just over $32k, it has the Big Bend pkg which is pretty much the plain jane version and it still cost that much. I feel not long ago you could've easily purchased it for around $25k but they've added all this new tech into it. It does have a rear camera which honestly is a good thing but IMO needs to be optional, they include all sorts of drivers aids which honestly are a complete nuisanse. I ended up turning off lane helper assist, if you get too close to the edge or driving around a turn it slightly adjusts the steering wheel automatically for you, I couldn't completely disable but now it has haptic feedback in the steering wheel, another is the auto stop feature, they do have a button to disable it but resets itself everytime you restart, it also has GPS for tracking the vehicle, the dealer said we would have to connect the phone to use navigation but I can literally track the vehicle using the Ford Pass app, also remote start and unlock the doors, again needs to be optional features.
Actually now with motorcycles there is a resurgance where people want to get back to basics, I would like ABS, charging port and maybe some type of GPS navigation and that's about it. The everyday rider doesn't need all the different riding modes or even adjusting the suspension electronically.
Henry Ford painted all his cars black for many years because it was the cheapest paint you could buy.
Here in Australia, where the motorcycle market is more than twice as big as the US on a per capita basis, small bikes are king. 8 of of the 10 top selling bikes were 660cc or lower according to the last available report. The majority of Uber Eats riders are rocking a CB125 & the Duke 200 & 390 are the most popular commuter bike by a long margin, with the smaller CFMOTO's slowly catching up. Even Triumph is having serious issues in supplying the demand for their new 400's. The motorcycle industry isn't screwed, but it seems that the Indian & Chinese motorcycle manufacturers have been faster to react to the market changes than the traditional manufacturers.
People actually want affordable bikes, the only ones that can't figure it out are the manufacturers.
I'm in Australia, too. That middleweight segment certainly seems to be growing. I think that's partly due to learner laws but also because there are a lot of really good bikes in that segment that old farts like me are comfortable on and they're bikes that we like. RE's, Vstrom 650's, SV's... they all just make too much sense. And low capacity bikes make a heap of sense for inner city apartment dwellers. And let's not forget, they're relatively "cheap". These are austere times that we're living in. Price point sensitivity is very much a thing. Smaller, moderately performing bikes are cheaper in every way than their big bore siblings.
Saldy, here in America Ubers arrive in Teslas and big SUVS, which is why is so expensive.
@@davidzavala337 Fuel prices are higher here in Australia, hence the small capacity motorcycles. We pay around $5 USD per gallon for our cheapest petrol with 10% ethanol. If your bike or car needs high octane fuel you're paying a lot more. But that's not why Uber Eats are so expensive. Here in Australia they take 35% of the total from the restaurant as a service fee. The only way restaurants can survive is by charging higher prices fo Uber customers than those who visit the restaurant.
@@davidbrayshaw3529 And they're just as capable. My Aprilia Shiver is my weapon of choice when I go for a ride in the twisties, but my Duke 200 is my first choice for commuting to work because it's faster & more nimble in traffic. It's even outrun a McLaren on The Seven Ways from a standing start at the lights on Bay St in Rockdale, much to the driver's displeasure. And a mate bought a Benelli Leoncino 500 in Kempsey last year & I had the unenviable task of riding it back to Sydney for him. With half the power of the Aprilia it still had no problem running at highway speeds & was such a hoot to ride I may have taken a few "scenic routes" on the way back.
Everything has gotten too expensive 😪
Especially if you're a cheap retired guy who doesn't finance anything. I'm 72 and I'll keep riding my Ninja 400.
@@jimt1240 for real i will fix my old bike's before i get a NEW one i am a carb guy so i'm good
BURDENOMICS
@@paulmccloskey7287 10000%
I park my supermoto in my dining room. A thief would have to really want my bike to come into my home to get it
Why wonder? Just look up the stats. The number of on-road motorcycles registered in the U.S. has been generally increasing throughout the years, approximately doubling from 4.3 million in 2002 to 8.6 million in 2021 . that's from the IIHS
It is pure greed. I have a BMW R1200GS and I can’t do the oil changes myself because you have to have the electronic reprogramming tool to reset the oil change light. Meanwhile, riders on that same bike in the EU can go into the menu options and just reset it at no charge. This is driven by local laws and BMW is screwing us. That’s why my next bike was a Honda that I can do all of the work myself.
Where do you live? I think not being able to reset the oil change light on a vehicle is actually illegal in the USA. There are also other ways around it. You could disassemble your cluster and remove or paint over the light. They can't fail your vehicle for inspection for an oil change light. Maybe you have a cell phone screen cluster. I'd put freakin' tape over it, literally
I have a 2013 r1200GS and I use a obd1 with the connector to reset the service light and look at other diagnostics on the motorcycle… these service fees are utterly ridiculous so I do what I can on my own including tire changes and even checking the valves which I will do on my 120000 mile service… plus it gives u a change to greatly get to know ur bike as well but get the obd1 and connector u can’t go wrong…
never buy a new BMW... they make people rent the heated seats in their cars LOL..
Supporting that evil ass company is so counter human.
You can reset the service yourself if you buy the tool (Motoscan, I think, it was ~90 bucks when I bought mine). Not great, but better than my Tuono 660; there's no option to reset the light other than the dealer. :(
Or get a gs911, I’ve had mine over 4 BMW’s … I can even test electronics, lights, clear codes, etc. etc.
Glad you called that (color) what it is - PRIMER Grey !!!
They do this on bikes and also vehicles now.
Every time I see one, I am thinking - someone actually CHOSE that color ????
WTF
Are they planning on (completing) the paint job, lol ??
Primer is what goes on the metal (before) the actual color.
I agree. Thats not a color! If you like your bike, why not let it be seen. If its black, you can't even tell the shape of it. My bike is orange and I love it!! 🤗
It's a topic of economy. Corporate profits are rising exponentially, and cost of living is rising, yet wages have been stagnant for decades. As far as increased amount of tech on vehicles in general, that's just companies lobbying for more regs to stomp out the competition.
The US dollar literally inflated ~23% total over the last 4 years. Whatever the base price on bikes were 4 years ago, add 23% and that cost is just due to the dollar being worth less. It may not be 1-1 exactly, but it's also a big reason for rising costs.
Just my opinion, I blame corporate greed for being a cause of higher prices, in every industry.
I blame the morons that are still buying these couches on wheels
Harley wanted $685 for a 5000 service??? They said "it takes more oil"... i said, so does my peterbuilt, and the oil change is cheaper ... so i did it myself, and filmed it.
Too bad doing it yourself voids the factory warranty regardless of filming yourself
@danieldoyle253 with yamaha, you just have to prove that you used Yamalube with receipts, and nothing will void your warranty
@@danieldoyle253 Not in the USA... its protected by law, and they cannot legally void the warranty. They fought it in court a long time, but Harley finally gave up and took their loss. They cannot void your warranty... car companies cannot either, you are free to service anywhere you want.
@@danieldoyle253no it doesn’t. Who ever told you that lied to you. It is illegal for a dealer in the USA to void a warranty simply because you did your own servicing.
Do your own service it's easy and cheap
Old school, second hand, cheap bikes are what the cool kids are riding these days. Even cooler kids buy a maintenance manual / watch TH-cam videos and maintain their own ride. Buy something Japanese and be happy.
There is a reason Royal Enfield is now so popular, super simple, easy to work on and you can do your own valves with no problem.
6:20 I disagree with that.
On my 2022 KTM 1290 SAS i constantly use the adaptive cruise control when riding in groups because it DOES notice the motorcycle in front of itself and makes it much easier to keep a constant distance without that normal on and off acceleration that you do when trying to match someone else's speed.
Most of the country is struggling affording groceries and housing. Until the economy is fixed, no amount of marketing, features or styling is going to put more bikes on the road.
2:19 Matte black is primer paint also, but it seems to be the "go-to" (non)-color for just about everything motorcycle related now.
yeah it's frustrating. I want a newer gold wing or a newer FJR and it's kind of tough to find one that isn't a billion dollars. Don't even get me started on the Harleys. THANKS FOR HAVING JESS ON WITH YOU
I love hanging out with Jess. She's welcome any time.
Never buy a new goldwing, the used market is where it's at. Plenty of them with 10 and 20k miles and its a bike that will last as long as a car.
Any Gen 3 FJR 2017 or later will be fine - that engine is bulletproof.
The one that really gets me is "Take it to the track" (often said by your former partner Spite). And while I do agree with the advice, there's a VERY obvious reason why most people don't do that. having just done my first track day, it's VERY expensive, 100's per day, 1000's in safety gear, a huge hassle (and possibly very expensive) to get insurance for your bike on a track. So, sure, take it to the track if you have the means, but it's kind of hard to fault the kid for twisting his wrist a little longer to see 100 on the speedo.
The cheapest track day I can do is a drag strip. That's still 1k in a full suit, $70 to race, wear and tear on tires, and some special mods to meet safety criteria. Track days are worse and they are usually on weekdays... So loss of work income too
I always thought that was just content creators trying to avoid getting sued.
Ya, that Yam guy even said on one of his videos that he doesn't like riders that don't do track days! Where I live there isn't a track for hundreds of miles so I guess he doesn't like me! He also has a problem with riders take their bikes to go to the store. I am all ways thinking of things to go to the store for. Its a good excuse to go go riding for an hour and I don't think there is ant thing wrong with that! Cheers! 😁
Motorcycles are so cheap in the US compared to Europe man
There's a dealership here in the DFW area called Mint Motorcycles, they are charging, last I looked, 12k for a used R7, no mods, and 4 figure mileage on it. So is there now ->NO
2009, one model year production, MV Agusta F4 1078 312 RR, $25k base, $35k upgrades to get it where it needs to be, just sold for $12.7k, that is the price you pay if and only if your willing to wait
The Hated Chinese route is a very popular temptation at the moment. We should take advantage.😂
got mine! cfmoto 800nk. never looked back.
Spend the couple grand differences and buy Japanese
@@hachi-rokuperformancegroup3987welp, a cfmoro 450 ss would be 10000$, Yamahninja 400 is 3000$ more, becomes expensive fast
Kawasaki Ninja 400*
Adventura 650. Or 650mt as non Americans call it.
Great bike. They discontinued it and thus it was like 3000 off so a mere 4000 USD.
@marcusvalentin5485 those are two completely different bikes. The 10k ninja 400 is the inline four they have a cheap twin 400 is only about 1k different. I know because my local kawasaki/suzuki dealer is also a cf moto dealer and the prices for comparable bikes are not that big of a price gap. That's why I walked out with a suzuki and it was an extra $800 well spent. You can say what you want but the small savings isn't worth giving up reliability and aftermarket support
Depends what you’re looking for. Theses $20k+ bikes are something we never had in the past, they’re insane. Just picked up a new 24 GSX S1000 for $12k out the door with tax, which is a helluva deal for the what you get!
Consider this: the GT I bought was just $2K more with bags and the bigger fairing. Suzuki has had a long history of refining known tech instead of trying to reinvent everything for every new year model.
Great video, love seeing you two team up. Great job!!
"Most people can't afford a $30,000 motorcycle" - Nobody buys a Harley for transportation. They're jewelry for a social club, and a status symbol. If you need transportation you can get a very good used bike for $3000 to $5000 max.
The younger generation is very risk-averse. especially financially. They need options in motorcycles that feel like good value for money and right now all they're pumping out is expensive flagship bikes.
Even on the less expensive versions you won't see very many of them in dealerships. base model BMWs are a myth They don't exist you'll never see one in a dealership.
I also disagree I think you're going to start seeing an increase in people buying motorcycles as primary transportation and not just the luxury item. especially as places become more urbanized and cars get more and more expensive and unattainable people are going to start looking at motorcycles a whole different way. I know I had to That's the only reason I ever got into riding. My car started falling apart and I knew that I needed to replace it but I also knew that I wasn't in a financial position to do so but I still needed to be able to get to work. at the same time gas was going to $5 a gallon and I couldn't afford to fill the car so I bought something that was small but still functional cheap and good on gas. aka a CFMoto 300NK.
But that's the kind of buyer that the motorcycle industry is currently ignoring for the most part because while the smaller bikes are selling more units they're not as profitable per unit.
you have two different ways you can go with that. you can do the Harley route and only sell big expensive bikes and just sell fewer of them but with higher profit margins per unit sold. and you can focus on people who have disposable income even if that is a smaller market.
or you can make quality simple but functional motorcycles like some of the Japanese manufacturers and CFMoto are doing. run the risk of making smaller amount of profits per unit but producing more units and using that bulk to create your profit.
BMW and Yamaha are also focusing on their more expensive motorcycles to get their profits.
you almost never see an MT03 in a dealership, But that same dealership will be stacked with 600s and 1000s wall to wall. so even if it manufacturer technically sells something cool and functional and inexpensive they often don't actually produce it in any sort of numbers.
Spite you are absolutely right about the beginner bikes on offer. I just watched a video about Triumphs 400 offering and they look amazing. I unfortunately had to give up riding due to a quadruple heart bypass, so now I watch channels like yours and Jess's. Keep up the great videos!
What caused your health problem if I may ask?
@@93mlo Doctor said probably family history as my father and my grandfather had yhe same issue. I was 43 at the time now 57.
Had my triple by pass done at 65, now 71 and I still ride, a trike ( Can Am Spyder not new ) Love riding. It's therapeutic. Wind therapy.
@@petekeller1424 I thought about that option but with all the meds I'm on my hands a feet go numb without warning. I watch AMSR videos of bike rides. My favourite is Ride to Food, it's a Sportster riding through some of the most beautiful areas. I live in Ireland now and even if I could ride you deal with alot of unexpected rain and people in cars who don't pay attention.
@@genehullinger9614 Sorry to hear about your situation. Stay well.
Everything is more expensive in the US of A
The industry is going to change over the next 10 to 20 Years. WHAT A BOLD PREDICTION!
I'm going to say it... Young people in general are scared. My daughter(20) rides and she only does because the rest of her family does. She got a crf70 when she was 9. She didn't start super young like some kids ,but she did ride 4wheelers. She's in college now and she has said most kids there ride groms/z125s or scooters not a lot of actual full size motorcycles.(She rides a SV650X) Every conversation she has with somebody when they first find out she has a motorcycle is are you afraid of dying or I know someone that died riding a motorcycle or something along those lines.
Kids are not as adventurous or curious as they used to be. I'm not sure what can be done to get the kids on bikes. Hell there are kids that graduated with my daughter in highschool that have never even rode a bicycle.
I started riding on road at 16... I'm 22 now... I see like no one my age riding at all, like zero. Most people I talk to my age and a bit younger think I'm stupid for having a motorcycle.
@@AyaWettsthat's what my kid says. It's almost weird for her when she's off campus and comes across another rider under 30. Cost is a factor on new bikes but you can always find a deal on used bikes. I think younger people look at riding a bike as too much as a risk. I think with being inundated with death and crashes online that's the first thing people think about.
To ride a motorcycle you must first ride a bicycle, but riding a bicycle is a lot more dangerous these days even in a "safe" suburban neighborhood; the fatality rate of pedestrians and bicyclists has nearly doubled in just the past decade. These people didn't just drop their bikes; a driver struck them.
So the college person with a Grom makes a lot of sense; the riders are playing catch-up for years without a bicycle.
I call it the domination of the car. The car is used for everything but it dominates spaces with its mortal danger; thus kids avoid adventure because they either need a car to do anything or they might be struck by a driver if they aren't in a car.
I always respond "I know three people who died driving cars, you shouldn't drive a car you'll get killed."
I grabbed myself a Grom a couple of years ago, and I consistently put twice the miles of my Harley on that thing.
The best part is, I'm not the only one. I met a bunch of Harley dudes in my area that have mini motos that are exactly the same way.
I could see small bikes in urban areas but where i live it’s all highways connecting the towns and small bikes just don’t cut it comfortably. I live in the PNW so I might be biased but I see more adventure bikes than anything due to the mountains and people wanting to get out and about.
I think one of the big things is the safety issue with everyone not paying attention and vehicles getting larger and heavier. I got hit by a f250 while on my multistrada and while that didnt stop me from riding, 3 of my friends saw what happened and decided to hang it up. To many people dont pay attention while driving now the risk is just getting higher and higher people dont wanna take the chances.
I personally don't see electric bikes going anywhere. Tons of car manufacturers are cutting back EV production 10x. EV sales are down over 40%, and bike dealers can't get rid of electric bikes. Which is fine by me. I hope the whole EV thing dies out, honestly. There is nothing that can replace the I.C.E anywhere in the near future.
That doesn’t seem to be the case here in Seattle- tons of millennials and gen z run rampant on the ubiquitous Lime scooters( completely ignoring any sort of “rules of the road”( or sidewalk) of course w/o a helmet ( bc “helmet laws are racist😅). E bikes are close behind. And of course anyone with a pulse can ride one so there are no barriers to entry…
RE cruise control talk at 6:30 - for $30,000 does HD not give you adaptive cruise control? Sounds like y'all need a Multistrada.
At least with BMW's you get your money's worth for the most part when you purchase a higher priced bike. Unlike HD where you pay top dollar for chrome and the logo.
The U.S. motorcycle industry, while still significant, has been experiencing some shifts compared to other countries around the world:
Key differences and trends:
Market maturity: The U.S. motorcycle market is considered mature, with a large existing motorcycle population and a focus on replacement sales rather than rapid growth. In contrast, many Asian and developing countries are experiencing faster growth due to increasing disposable incomes and motorcycle adoption for transportation.
Dominant brands: The U.S. market has traditionally been dominated by domestic brands like Harley-Davidson and Indian Motorcycle, known for their large-displacement cruisers and touring bikes. However, international brands like Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, BMW, and Ducati are also popular, offering diverse motorcycle types to cater to different preferences.
Shifting demographics: The average age of motorcycle riders in the U.S. is increasing, posing a challenge for attracting younger riders. Conversely, many other countries have younger rider demographics, which drives demand for different motorcycle types like sportbikes and smaller-displacement models.
Electric motorcycles: The global rise of electric motorcycles is also impacting the industry. While the U.S. market is gradually adopting electric motorcycles, other countries, particularly in Asia and Europe, are witnessing faster adoption due to government incentives and environmental concerns.
Market size: While the U.S. market remains substantial, it is no longer the largest globally. Countries like China, India, and Indonesia have significantly larger motorcycle markets due to their sheer population size and the role of motorcycles in transportation.
Overall:
The U.S. motorcycle industry is undergoing a transition, with changing demographics, evolving preferences, and the increasing presence of international brands. While the market remains important, it faces challenges in attracting younger riders and adapting to the growing popularity of electric motorcycles. In contrast, many other countries are experiencing faster growth and diversification in the motorcycle industry.
In short, the more people don't want it to change, the worse it's going to get.
Spite, it's good to see you and Jess on a ride. She's a Buckeye Ball! Hope both of have a grand ride.
When I got my Trident in 22, I was looking at all of the middleweight options, and had to basically accept the fact there were no options available for 10K out the door with all fees n BS included.
I think things are a lot better now than they were 2 or 3 years ago. Supply problems meant popular bikes (like MT07 or 09) were hard to find + dealers had so many inflated additional charges. I was in a local dealer a couple of months ago and they had 2024 Suzuki GSX 8S models on the floor for $5999 + reasonable shipping/setup/licensing fees so deals are available for even the newest models.
I'd love a Nightster Special... seems so great, but heard so many stories of them being problematic, plus HD trying to nickle and dime everyone to death.
The Livewire is awesome , until you get rear ended at a stop sign and you've been waiting 4 months for the Harley dealer to fix it and there is still no ETA on some parts from the Mo Co.
I find the lots of inexpensive beginner bikes statement to be a bit misleading. I recently looked at a Grom, $3900 msrp + it had addons and fees + there will be sales tax. $6200 OTD price for a $3900 bike is crazy!(freight 300, setup 800, service 275, addon parts 486, doc 85, 8.5% sales tax). The affordable list prices are nothing like what you are paying, it's totally misleading, almost 40% in additional fees.
Everything going up in price, wages staying stagnant. This is just one of many industries paying the price for the greed of the 1%.
What gets me is they keep raising the prices every single year on the same motorcycles that haven't been updated in several years. 600's now cost over 12k with abs, and 1000's are 16-19k. It used to be 7k & 12-13k about 10yrs ago. That's substantial considering the percentage increase. They're pricing themselves out of the market to try and make up for lower sales.
Its called inflation and its all across the Globe and has been because of "Free trade". Trucks are even more outrageous. $75K is the norm for a full size truck. Even used you are looking at $40K or more. There is no way I could justify paying more than $35K for a truck for personal use and even that is too much.
I bought a used 2004 Moto Guzzi 750 for less than 3.5k, and having a blast for last three seasons of riding it !
I don’t want to spend a lot of money on motorcycles.
It’s possible to spend less and still have fun, which I prefer.
Here in the Netherlands people are actually buying more bikes than before.
And about the KTM moving to china thing; I heard that this has also to do with them wanting to sell bikes in China itself, through CFMoto. But the manufacturer demanded that they would also take responsibility for building bikes for markets such as Europe. Not sure about this one, but I don’t think the motorcycle market is dying yet
im 35. when I was in hs (2006) you could pick up a 600 super sport used from craigslist for 3 grand, and it wasn't a pos. 2010ish same thing was 5k-8k today unless your buying a 12 year old bike you won't get those prices. im assuming with things like abs,tct, digital dashes, and the technology and what it takes to produce that has raised the prices along w/ inflation and other things. but I watch my younger family members struggle to just buy a bike these days vs when I was getting into it. it was called the broke mans way to go fast. now its the privileged. with disposable income during a depressions luxury.
There are so many good bikes for 15k or less New it's crazy. You used to pay extra for chrome but now the paint and no chrome is extra. The Grey on Harleys is definitely a nice color.
I think this is the exact topic for the current situation. I'm not sure where this is going to go, but I do appreciate the number of low used mileage Harley's out there.
Mint 86 Goldwing Interstate for 1400.00 that sat twenty years and after about 500 in parts and some elbow grease , I have a great bike to ride and I couldnt be happier not to mention its the greatest bike I have ever owned in my 60 years . Moral of the story is you dont need a lot of money to get a good bike
In india we are blessed with tons of entry level middle weight bikes like Triumph Speed 400/ 400X, Harley x440, KTM 390 lineup, Aprilia RS457, and few offerings from local manufacturers like Bajaj, Hero Motocorp and Royal Enfield.
Just bought a Royal Enfield SM 650 and I really appreciate the simplicity and robust nature of the 650 engine. Congrats to India for making such a great motorcycle.
They aren't entry level in India for majority of young folk though. They are aspirational. India is just starting its journey of leisure rider motorcyclists and motorcycling is far from dead. Think numbers in USA might be going uo as well actually.
Malibu California? Were you headed to the rock store or on your way to sagebrush cantina?
I know several people in my generation who don't drive cars.....they don't even have a driver license in some cases.
Especially young dudes who live in inner city areas with good access to public transport. My son is 26. He didn't bother getting his driver's license until he was 21. He only owned a car for a year or so and barely drove it. The tram stop is just around the corner from where he lives and that's how he gets to work or to the train. It doesn't faze him.
Like everything else, it’s all relative to your wealth and desire. 25k to a multimillionaire is not impactful.
But HD doesn't market to millionaires. Ducati might but they've never been an "attainable" brand. HD whole brand is blue collar, 'murica, freedom.
@@spitescorner Hd lost the plot to me, they'll milk babyboomers for another 10 years then they'll have to face the reality
@@spitescorner Harley's new CEO wants Harley to be an "aspirational" brand. You know what that means LOL 😁. Also , have you heard about Harley forcing all kinds of dealerships to close down? I think it'll all backfire in the long run, but they're running with it
@@spitescorner - the marketing may be blue collar but it definitely the doctors lawyer, bankers, company execs and successful company owners who are buying them - at least buying them new. The prices for new HD's are way beyond the budget of most young riders. I fall into the "I can afford to buy one if I really want one" category but I don't have an emotional connection to them so to me I think they are simply very overpriced for what they are and so I'll keep schlepping along on my FJR1300 which to me is a bike that represents great value for money.
@@Jagshemasher Yeah, the whole "blue collar" Harley thing was only true briefly in the late 1940's when there were cheap Army surplus bikes flooding the market. The fact that Harley can continue to levitate that myth in the face of $26,000 motorcycles is the 8th wonder of the world.
My son just bought a 2024 MT09 for under 11k. There have always been boutique brands. I have an Aprilia, a Moto Guzzi, and a BMW. All three cost me more than a better-performing more reliable Japanese brand. The industry is the best shape in history. There are offerings for almost any price point.
Ive been looking for something really cheap to ride and used bike prices are nuts. Stuff that doesnt run and is half take apart they want 3k for....... R3s,400s and other starter bikes listed for MSRP prices after having 3-4k miles on them used..... I want to get into riding bikes and already bought most of my gear and registered for the test but cheap starter bikes just dont exist.
"The bike has a slight scratch on the fairing" Looks at bike and the entire side of the bike has deep scratches from a low side. Marketplace is full of clowns like that.
Have you ever painted anything? I'm not saying I think it should charge more for black. I'm just saying it is honestly the hardest to get right.
Nope not even close to the hardest paint to spray.
@@davidj688 not to spray to finish and get looking decent every imperfection is magnified
Something to think about, as I mentioned in a reply to another comment, brands like Suzuki may not have the top dollar revenue in mind where they takes years of refinement to their existing tech and continue with it instead of having an insane R&D cost to remake everything for new models, and they have other revenue streams for cars in the Asian market, so they don't have a reputation for being a "niche market". The most expensive and extreme they get is the Hayabusa, GSX R an S are cheap and ubiquitous in the marketplace. One doesn't need a HD, Indian, Ducati, BMW or Aprilia to enjoy riding, unless you value "prestige brands", they're the Coach Bags of motorcycles. In the other comment reply, I stated that for my GSXS1000GT+, hard bags and all, cost me a little over 13K out the door. Also, I can wrench on it myself for basic things like oil, filter, spark plugs, brake pads etc. without having to go to a dealer for service and saving a lot of money. To reset the service indicator, all it takes is a bent paperclip. However, for major things like valve adjustments, I'm letting a pro do it.
Here's another thought. Go with black plastic fuel tanks, fenders, trim, and forego painting anything except the frame and engine black. Or polish frame and engine, after chroming it. HD is out dated, time to get rid of tins, and paint jobs.... aerated paint applications isn't doing our environment any good. Better if they changed procedures, and dipped the parts in paint, like the automotive industry does.
I want to go back to the year 2000. Motorcycles are trying to do too much. BE a motorcycle. 2 wheels. Lots of power. Limited electronics. And AFFORDABLE
Lots of excellent early to mid 2000 options on the used market for kick ass prices, especially in the Japanese cruiser and muscle bike category. Their reliability and easy maintenance (on most) make it a no brainer at least for me.
@thegreenman2030 exactly. Manufacturers need to get back to the basics. Make simple powerful fun machines. 99% of riders will never "use" The machine to need all of the electronics.
Luckily, you can buy good bikes for reasonable prices from almost any era you like.
I recently bought a 1980 Honda and it's great fun to ride and about as practical for transportation as my Yamaha. I'm only going to stable it for the winter because then I'd prefer to have the TC and ABS on my ride.
35M live in BC Canada. Been riding bikes for the last 7 yrs. I have an 08 Shadow 750 and a 23 Vstrom 800de. Both of these bikes even with the Vstrom brand new still cost me less than an a lowrider ST and saved almost 10k WTF! I have test road the ST and would buy if it wasn't 30K+ out the door here. I tour and offroad on my Vstrom, it does it just great. I would like to have a Harley but they are just that much more expensive and doesn't make sense to me.
You can literally buy 2 motorcycles for the price of any Harley. And… HD has 1950 technology even when they add some new stuff…. All still look the same too. They can’t keep up to Europe and Asia . I’m surprised they still exist.
Just because HD is struggling DOESNT mean other brands are. They are suffering from outdated bikes, huge price premiums and a nasty stigma that they created. It’s not an industry problem. It’s a HD problem.
The market/ power necessity/ reallity is completely different from the US, but over here in Europe big bikes are dying out in favor of 125cc bikes and scooter.
In my country specifically in the last 5 years there were as many 125cc bikes sold as all the other cc combine, they are affordable, easy to bet on, fuel efficient and on most cases they have enough power to scut arround
I don’t get y a naked bike that’s two years old with 5k miles is only 2k under msrp new …?
Motorcycles have gotten too expensive, but they are toys in America. The good thing is, companies are now selling good performing daily bikes like the RS660,GSX8R, R7 and many others coming into this category of value driven machine.
3-4k will probably get you an immaculate 20yr old Japanese motorcycle that looks like new with a full service history and low mileage , wether it's a sports , tourer or cruiser. Look after it and that's probably all you'll ever need with guaranteed performance and reliability.
I just picked up a 04 ST1300, $4000 bucks, it’s the oldest / cheapest bike I’ve ever bought but I love it
I put 5000 to 10000 miles a year on my bike
I put far more miles on my bikes then I do on my car
@@Robert-xs2mv I ride my bikes far more days than I drive my truck, but when I drive my truck it's usually to go a long distance to do some task, so in the end I probably ride 5 days for every 1 day I drive but I have 10,000 miles on my truck since buying it last September but only about 7000 on my bikes combined since then.
Spite, how the hell do you keep that Bell Helmet quiet. I swear mine is louder than my 1290
HD is charging $ 500.00 for 'vivid black' paint...and HD buyers are paying for it.
It speaks volumes about both the greed of the company and the patent idolatry of its buyers.
This is the only reason for me being happy about the Chinese motorcycles.
Yes inflation, more tech, more R&D, pays going up so yeah they definitely gotten expensive. Same with cars or house markets etc.
My current bike is battery powered. Fast as hell and cheaper than any big bike. Two cents a mile to charge. The bike industry is not dying, its changing
I think there a glut of motorcycles. I check FB marketplace and Craigslist every day and the same 100's of used bikes are still for sale by both dealers and private sellers. And they've been for sale for well over 6 months if not a year. The prices are pretty good too and they aren't moving. Raising prices seems like a bad idea.
Maybe they should offer more basic-deluxe packages pay for accesories system, i drive sportbikes and while they still seem reasonable im worried theyll add unnecessary features to drive prices up since sales arent as big in the states
I noticed a long time ago (20 years? about 40 riding) that the cost of the bike didn't really reflect my enjoyment. Actually, in extreme cases I had much LESS fun on a $12~15k motorcycle (back when that was the upper tier limit, basically the $25k bikes today) than on my normal $2~3k motorcycles. Fear of damage and monetary loss really did me in when owning/riding those bikes. But let me pick up a $1000 600, put $500 into it with tires, brakes, chain, etc.... and I have NO problems wringing it's neck out. Toss it down the track, or put a rod through the case and I've only lost at Most the $1500 spent, but it pretty much always turned out that I made money selling the good parts to others.
Bless the people who buy new, because they feed the used market. But I'll never buy new again. Being from the age of carbs and points, I don't care for or want rider modes, digital dashes, or any of the new things that distract from the core riding experience, Especially as a street and dirt only rider now. Older motorcycles that people put out to pasture, like my current Aprilia Caponord that I bought for $100, provide me with all the same riding joy that those on $20k BMW GSes get.
A 2005 HD Road Glide had an MSRP of $17,735. A 2024 Road Glide is $25,999. Accounting for inflation thats actually CHEAPER than the 2005 model. It would theoretically cost $28,520 now.
in my opinion flagship bikes aren't going anywhere. I'd fully expect manufacturers to shift more towards smaller bikes as their main income, but having fast high end bikes is too powerful of a marketing tool to get rid of at the very least.
A S1000RR with the options of ABS, Traction controll and a quick shifter was 17.851€ when it was released in 2009.
Adjusted to inflation, this would be 26.000€ in todays money.
And bikes got obviusly way better with much more tech and so on. So no, I don't think bikes got more expensive.
I actually think they got cheaper
The only hd I would consider would be an evo, due to workability. But having a flashed V Star 1300 and Raider, I don't think I could go so far back in displacement, and increased maintenance. Hell my Silver Wing scooter is a rocket and would smoke most harleys.
HD is on life support, and they need to pull the plug.
My rear tire worked out to 14 miles per dollar. I got quoted almost $650 for an oil change and brake flush from Triumph. Ill do it myself
If you think bike prices are high, you should see what 4wheelers cost these days… some full cab units are well over 40k
Yes they have. When it costs as much as an SUV with a fraction of the material input its way way too expensive. Companies need to figure out what colours are and lose the tech. If you can't control the bike without rider modes and all the other stuff then you shouldn't be on the bike. Accept you are not a professional and get a bike accordingly.
Tried to get a BASIC bike and it ended up being 3/4 of the cost of a brand new Nissan Versa.
Profits are soaring and everything is going up but the WORKING persons pay.
I can't afford one. Why I keep my old Shadow running.
"The US is a pretty large country where we need a lot of power to move around." - Eh? Does not compute. Why would you need a lot of power to go far? A 250 will easily get you to speed limit and beyond. Plus, a lot of roads over there are flat and straight. How on earth is that supposed to require more power than in Europe, where roads wind between fields, along streams and around hills as they were for centuries, or even in an alpine region, where you constantly have to brake and accelerate over mountain roads, going up and down steep inclines.
I got a CBR650 last year. Cost me around 10000. Whenever asked about that, the followup question is always: "New?" - it's much cheaper than people expect. And compared to the bicycle I bought the same year (for 2500), it's an outright bargain. 95HP, ABS, traction control, full LED lighting, great suspension (albeit non-adjustable), fulfills EURO5 emission standards... I don't think it's expensive at all.
I also considered getting a Fireblade. Now that IS expensive.
A lot of super valid points made, certainly in the states motorcycling is a fragile thing, like vacationing it would be first to go during a recession. However I’m not sure if I see Harley Davidson as a market indicator like the Dow Jones. Harley has been declining for a long time as they don’t appeal to the younger buyers.
XSR900 has an MSRP of 10k, 6 axis ride aides, cruise control, quick shifter, auto blip, digital display, and it handles and rides great. Fast enough not to be boring.
That’s kinda of the point though. Drop all that unnecessary tech and it would be 8k. I work at an Aprilia dealer and a few days ago I had the pleasure of riding an 08 FZ-06 that doesn’t have any of that tech. Guess what? It was amazing! Bikes of that era have everything you need and nothing you don’t. Oh, and that screaming buttery smooth inline 4 😎 not a boring, vibrating twin…
@brandonzm1122 I think newer riders appreciate the tech. You can always turn it off. It would be interesting to see a manufacturer offer the same bike with analog gauges for 2k less than the one with all the tech and see how they sold. I'd think more people want the tech than don't.
If people want cheaper less techy bikes, used bikes are a dime a dozen on facebook.
The XSR900 is a 3 cylinder. It's pretty torquey and fun and easy to ride. Pretty quick to about 100 mph and the engine is pretty great IMO.
My adaptive cruise on my R1300GS has no issues seeing motorcycles ahead of me. Use it all the time when we get on a stretch and the lead rider is ahead of me.
Yes - but that's a $25K+ motorcycle . . .it shouldn't be an issue when you fork out that kind of money for a motorcycle.
@@Jagshemasher she said the radar their BMW 1800 wouldn't detect motorcycles, and I am refuting that . Something is wrong with her bike if that is true.
I am so glad to see companies like Royal Enfield going against the grain and offering new bikes (INT 650 and Super Meteor) for a low price.
It reminds me of the hatchback/crossover car market surge when all the tax increases were hitting the SUV and Truck market for the first time. Everyone wants something that can do it all at an affordable cost and for good reason. I suppose that’s why cfmoto is doing so well and also why a company like BMW doesn’t make a middle weight sport bike. It’d end up costing 15k plus for a 10k market.
Are you faimilar with he BMW F900r? I would definitely consider that a middle weight naked sport bike. and its price is actually not obscene. But the maintenance costs? Well that could be debated.
@@spartanx169x yes that’s a naked bike that’s heavier than my mt09, more expensive and less powerful. I meant something with fairings, and a little more power, less weight. Like a 130hp s1000rr
The biggest problem with manufacturers is getting products out to the consumer. They have been talking about the Himalayan 450 coming soon for over a year. Still nothing in dealers. The Transalp was a big thing, but only in our imaginations unless we were a TH-cam celebrity. Nothing available, but 2 TH-camrs went down and bought one the same day. Try finding a Honda Trail 125. I can get 20 Groms from the same dealer, but no 125. Had the money, and went to a dealer to get the bike. Showed 3 in stock. Got there, and the only one in the dealership was sold and only half assembled. The other two were still on order, and already sold. How many times can you be disappointed before you go another route?
Can’t imagine why less people are buying motorcycles. I won’t pay the price of a used bike. And I rode most my early years.
Adaptive Cruise Control with Lane Assist? Does the Motorcycle version do Lane Assist? Next they need an auto outrigger for stopping at lights. W/Lane Assist, I can almost read the newspaper (Never did!) while following the fastest driver on the highway (Hopefully he get's the ticket!) except for the "Please Place Hands On the Wheel".