I like it when side games let the stage 1-4 characters show off more. Later stage bosses usually get most fleshed out, and get their time in the spotlight. Letty, Yuugi, and Eternity come to mind for early stage bosses that haven't shown their full potential. Sure I'm missing more.
Three things: 1. Junko also gave up in th15 2. The incident also went unresolved in th9 3. Does anyone know if the final fight dialogue changes if you replay it WITH all the cards unlocked and purchased? There's an achievement so the game should be aware of it.
Geez this really swapped my whole point of view of the game. I thought it was gonna be some sort of dumb irrelevant Continuation of 18 But now seeing the translated version… Huh this is an inside joke story and I love it.
i wasn't aware people didn't like the story of this game i thought it was bonkers and nonsensical, but in a funny way, and it made me like takane a little more
@@captaindoesyoutube7925 Basically? It's literally a world where the supernatural(AKA outside the ordinary, AKA nonsense) go after being forgotten(retiring).
also... Marisa is the only playable character the character known for often having the silly nonsensical dialogue (like seriously just look at some of her Touhou 6 conversations) is one half of every conversation in the game. even other games with much more firm stories feel like a bunch of random nonsense if Marisa is the only route you've experienced. considering this I wouldn't have the story be any other way
I’m pretty sure Takane being the final boss, and the one behind the black market is meant to be hinting towards Her theme and appearance. Takane’s Theme “Banditry Technology” fits well with the “Illegal Black Market” theme, like how Team Rocket, a criminal organization, was behind the Pokemon Gambling place, and Bandits are usually known as criminals.
Touhou 18.5 feels like a Touhou literary work story. Building up an incident to some climax, all to resolve in a rather unclimatic way like Okina's incident in Lotus Eaters. Touhou 18.5 simply brought it all to game form. I don't really mind since Zun seems to prefer to expand the lore than progressing some grand plot in the universe, but it does feel rather weird since the games at least gave you a grand battle before resolving everything back to the status quo. This game just spoils it own ending before the final boss. I just wished the game wasn't so grindy for lower skilled players.
honestly, i’m glad this story exists, i like how zun made a story as completely bonkers and off the wall like this one. but a part of me really wants to see zun take some of his stories a bit more seriously in the future. i do appreciate the light hearted toe of touhou, sure, but given how fantastic and memorable the story of touhou 17 turned out, and given the backstories of characters from byakuren to even mike, i think there’s tons of potential for stories with a darker tone in the future. i think this story was a fun experiment, but it would be awesome to see zun put more emphasis on the story in the future
I loved Takane's "We surrender" attitude. Not to mention Marisa's a formidable foe, Takane's being totally logical here - better avoid fight that's not winnable Touhou is not known for elaborate storytelling, so I didn't mind the brief dialogues in-game After all, ZUN doesn't write 500 words long codex entry for a side character like BioWare for each game he releases
Thanks to this video, I finally figured out what the hell is happening in the game, dialogue in Touhou games is quite hard for to understand. Guess I'm in the party who didn't enjoy its wacky nature, but it does give some turn in Marisa's character I suppose. In a way it's kind of like Touhou 9, since nothing really happened in this game, but instead of being retrospective on several characters, it focuses on one and her greed. Even if anyone could scoff off as a one-time thing, given the shift in story perspective starting in 16 (or arguably in 14), I do believe her greed might play part in the future installments/works Even though a certain game I know has the opposite problem of having a lot of dialogue every stage (especially in later ones), I would rather have that than tolerating 10 hours of rougelike hell, I really didn't enjoy playing 18.5 at all (and this is coming from a guy who loves rougelikes)
I’m a bit late to the party but still, the plot of 18.5 is not crazy at all, according to some nerds I met heavily armed with economics knowledge. I’m just here to convey a brief summary of their interpretations in layman's terms. And throw in a few of my own septims, you never know. To understand the plot of 18.5, let’s take a look at the plot and character development of UM. Chimata yearned to restore her former glory as the god of traditional markets, where people gather and trade face-to-face, unlike our online shopping today. To some extent, she represents the desire for the benefits that a substantial market can bring to an authority - taxes, regulations, a sense of control/ownership, etc. After entering Gensoukyo, she attempted to adapt to the trend of dispersive/decentralized trading by creating cards that switch ownership only if they are traded properly. Yet this method deviated from its aim and created something even more decentralizing - the separation of skill and labour. Traditionally, you’ll need the labourers to come in person to perform their gimmicks, and now you can just buy their corresponding skill cards! They likely won’t even profit from patents or something. Considering the recent trend of AI learning from creators and reproducing their styles at an alarming rate, this arc is an eerily accurate, analogous prediction. Back to Chimata. To reach Marisa’s alternate ending, you’ll need the Blank Card and ditch other ability cards, which, according to those nerds, is an analogy to authorities ‘killing’ transactions backed by (somewhat)real values with the use of credit currencies(insert ‘money printers go brrr’ joke here). Chimata went bedridden likely realizing she was her own downfall. At the time of Touhou 18.5 though, she appears well and dandy. She has franchised her belief: instead of posing as a traditional regulator, she now preys on fluidity. The market has not died out as predicted, and she switches from desperately asserting domination to manipulation. Despite explicitly expressing the desire to end the black market, she knew everyone would attempt to benefit from it somehow and thus it would thrive. I focus on Chimata because her character underwent drastic changes between 18 and 18.5. Other characters didn't. Now hear me out: Yamawaro have always been the profiteers. They wanted a monopoly in the black market; when that turned out to be impossible and Marisa wanted to fight, they immediately chose the most economically rational option - to surrender. They always maximize profits and minimize losses, after all. They are a symbol of capitalism's logic. Nitori represents players in the market who brandish the 'progressive' mallet, technologically or ideologically, whatever furthers their branches. Despite kappas having been quite the successful capitalist entrepreneurs themselves, in this game Nitori developed a card named "Capitalism's Dilemma", quoting "someone's pulling the strings, I want to bust it all up". As if spreading misinformation and causing scenes as depicted in all those literary works does not pass for "pulling the strings"! Indeed, old monopolies manipulate the market, and so do booming big tech companies. Kappas are also part of this Dilemma. Well, they still follow their archetype, just for the sake of my argument. (One of the aforementioned nerds who is also a communist insists that ZUN was inserting his own urge to take down capitalism. People could have self-destructive tendencies, you know.) Marisa is a confirmed hoarder now; I bet we have always known that. She bears the irrational force in the market(by classic economics standard). Driven by fever, she kept pushing forward and could not stop fighting even when she should(again, by classic economics standard). An academia-defined world is dull, innit? Anyway, all participants reached a decent settlement. Chimata freed fluidity from potential monopoly, Kappas took advantage of the fluctuation and opted in, Marisa collected cards and will get more, while Yamawaros got to keep the market going longer. Such is the charisma of the free market!
wow that's some good research and reflexion! Good take on Chimata, her sneaky attitude goes very well with the manga too. We should made a document with all the solid theories. I would add a quick research on the dilemna gives this : "This is the capitalist's dilemma: Doing the right thing for long-term prosperity is the wrong thing for investors, according to the tools that guide investments" Nitori is probably on the long term construction/ artisanat I guess? That's why she is mad? The anti-climatic end is perfect to show indirectly the fever of Marisa, that , as player, we have too. We don't need, but we must fight the final boss! For 18th, someone said the card is the covid pass, you see Tsukasa 3 times aka the nurse, before at the tunnel you suffocate. Megumu the politics, Misumaru the bourgeois class and Momoyo the working class, that extract natural ressources. I have a feeling ZUN for this era is rewritting the whole economic cycle and the economy/cards will create problems with the grounds of Gensokyo (TH19) with no owners. Quantity of cards and bullet money goes up (inflation) but grounds crashes to nada( economic bubble pop) not eco nerd myself, but I love to find all the hidden things in ZUN's works.
@@corbeauwrite Good take! Been busy with life the past month; didn't even catch up with the new game. I skipped quite a lot in the reply, for it was already long. (e.g. The casino-speculation analogue, the card system being fiat money, etc.) All these interpretations deserve documenting, podcasting and over-analysis, I believe, which might lead the community to touch some deeper societal grass. I might sound like an ambitious power-tripper with big words and little real grit but this is exactly what those Chinese influencers has been attempting to do with the Chinese Touhou community - their version of enlightenment. Inevitably the youngest Touhou fans will touch grass too; I cannot do it alone for I pale in professionalism, connections and time. Perhaps someone with network can send a few of these interpretations to professionals?
You and your economic friends may like "Touhou - Shoutoku Coin (Opagi)" if not already aware of it. It shows what befalls a Gensokyo which dabbles in economics without the guidance of a God...
I loved this game as it was the first Touhou game I got to play on release. Real highlight for me's definitely that one time I was messing with Nitori's card. Managed to somehow break it hard enough to the point it gave me a 1-2k profit per card instead of a cost
I recently discovered that Touhou 18.5 came out and everyone in OST videos hated on it so I am glad this video exists to explain everything nicely. Honestly, a win from ZUN.
Surprised people don't like the actual story, usually I see people dislike how the structure of the finale is done and wanting Takane to have a fancier pattern, but get solid chuckles out of seeing Takane of all people be the final boss and stuff like surrendering and so on. My favorite part of the story is honestly the stuff you only get when you read the Blank Card and the post-game market: Chimata could have just ended the market whenever she wanted with her power, but she clearly wanted it to grow more and then stop it in this roundabout method so she could get full control of it herself and fully benefit from it. Basically wound up using both sets of Kappa and Marisa for her own gain, it's great.
Couldn't agree more. I just revisited a game where she, Reimu and Sakuya team up with a pair of sentient drums to nonchalantly go on a worldwide dragon slaying musical tour. I'm not talking about a fangame by the way, you can actually unlock them as party members in Taiko Drum Master Rhythmic Adventure 2's story mode alongside Kirby, Dedede, MH4 Palicos and Phoenix Wright.
I feel like ZUN made 19 an adjustment based on a lot of the feedback to 18.5. So much damn plot, tons of mindblowing character lore reveals (Yuuma knew pre-shikigami Ran??), and a definitive action-packed resolution that ties together the arcs of the Animal Realm mafias and Chimata/the markets
Spinoff stories in nutshell: StB:Aya:imma gonna take pictures for unknown reasons from other people DS:Aya:imma still doing the same from StB Hatate:LOL,imma gonna steal some pictures and articles from you Aya:how could you?lets fight ISC:Seija:ANARCHISM,yessss Meiling:stop yo crap Seija:nooooooo VD:sumeriko:immma exist Everyone in her dream:DIE Doremy:LOL lets watch her die for 100th time Fake sumeriko:OK HBM:marisa:well maybe i couldn't have the great power from the mountains (LLS)or become a god in makai(MS)but still.....i can buy cards illegally and dont solve tha incident for at least a matter of time Zun while making these:how to make the a nonsense lore behind a game?lemme show ya
I think it could be read as a serious topic, Takane is the boss because she hacked into the position of a boss, with manipulating prices of litteral "stocks" of Gensokyo, she is the buyer/reseller that everyone wants to be with. She avoid conflicts because she is a profit-oriented person that keep in mind effectivness, while everyone is danmaku-oriented. Marisa is already greedy before the games (hoarder ill), she is both the symbol of human and greed : aka : "I think speculative markets are insane, so I stop it, but...I want a little piece of it.." and we all are like that. At the very end, ZUN talk as Marisa saying more or less, the cards will stay, because greed will stay too. TH18 is heavy on the symbolism of stock/Local market and covid era, it's subtle but well present ZUN made an ephemeral game about inflation too, it's "Gold Rush", he got a good grasp how economy and hyperinflation works (You'll be suprised how few people understand this) , if you want to learn about Japan's one, go check "Princes of the Yen" on youtube, it's quite heavy but very informative. In the new game, the 19th, it seems the plot is moving because of Chimata's ability to relinquish ownership, guess because of who? The fact this game is in surface not serious could be done to stay low profile on the fact it's the origin of the very serious (next) game.
I had given up on beating this game (the difficulty is bonkers) so glad I was able to get the tl;dr here. Heck, it almost makes me wanna give it another go
Okay I think I know where Zun was going for this game, I think some inspiration about the black market was from both wall street bets vs the hedge funds.
Marisa’s able to solve an incident on her own (with help from Chimata and Nitori, but there’s no other protagonists), but her choice not to end it highlight what makes her different as a character. It’s a selfish choice, yes, but it’s also a choice she made where she’s confident that nothing else would go wrong under her watch.
i love the story, i just wish it had more dialogue. i wouldve loved hearing something from the characters, even though that wouldve required a lot of new art.
You joke about Larry being the final boss, but when you pick Dry Bowser as your playable character in the Puzzles and Dragons crossover, *Boom Boom* is the final boss. The rules of common sense do not apply to Mario, to the point that some sources claim that the real canon is that the cast is actually a troupe of actors that often get typecast.
Ah didn’t think about that game lol. Iirc a Kooling is technically a final boss in Mario is Missing or Mario’s Time Machine, and Bowser’s left to a cutscene.
I wont beat this game anytime soon anyway. Might as well get the full story told to me. Thanks! Edit: Funny that people dont like this story? I read enough official printmedia to say that whatever is going on in this game story wise is not any different to any other story ZUN has ever written. Its a very typical official Touhou story. And why would the yamawaro or kappa for this matter NOT manipulate the markets to fill their own pockets? They do this all the time! A kappa being the true mind behind the incident is as logical as it gets.
Precisely what I was wondering. I thought the story was fine all things considered. Zun rushed out a game (and was very transparent about that) and clearly had some fun while doing it. This is a very Touhou story with an added pinch of ridiculousness. If I had to rush a game like Zun did, I would have tried to do the same thing to at least make up for the rush.
As a proud touhou noob all of my knowledge is half out of context so I only _kinda_ get what makes this crazy but honestly I still think all the batshit insane moon bullshit is crazier
@@Megapig9001 Not even the moon war, just the moon bullshit itself I've seen my fair share of weird lore, but I've never had to say "Rewind 3000 years, enter the moon people who have enslaved the moon rabbits" before
i think after touhou 17 and 17.5 people wanted a more darker and immersive story but then 18 and 18.5 came and it's just the Reimu and the crew going after a bunch of goofs and schemers, complete with good ol'Marisa badgering a mountain kappa for a proper final boss fight. when it comes to how idyllic or grimdark canonical touhou is I refer to the first boss of touhou 6, which was effectively a reboot of the lore, Rumia, the Youkai of Darkness whose title in any other story would be the title of a final boss or villain of the week but in touhou she's just a dumb little cannibal that couldn't understand that shrouding herself in a ball of darkness meant she can't see shit as she flew around. and when she got beaten by the protagonist, she was barely heard from again,. Zun even pointed out that this was intentional, a way to explain that not everything will be a predictable story. he also designed Flandre to look different from her sister not for lore reason but to go against what a vampire should look like, to this day Flandre's wings are still iconic of herself, not a vampire.
Isn't the point of the lack of conclusion to this game to demonstrate the fall to corruption? Despite setting out to resolve the black markets' illicit activities, Marisa decides that with the control she now exerts over the whole operation, "Why not profit from this myself?" The same as any avaricious businessman, politician, or person altogether who's ever entrusted with power. Though not hugely familiar with the 18/18.5 plot, it seems to me these two games have sort of been a critique on the corruption inherent in money and power, alongside especially the increasing inequalities that have arisen because of COVID, which I think is a very potent and pressing issue nowadays, especially considering how the role of the individual and non-corporate layman in the modern market is becoming slimmer than ever... Whether the cute-girl bullet shooter game is the best avenue for this message is probably dubious though, lol...
The bottom part is the big one. The anti-climax isn’t that bad for the story, but in terms of the actual game’s pacing and difficulty, it does lead to a really strange conclusion that can lead to a lot of players feeling unsatisfied.
So from Mike’s backstory, because she didn’t have pure white fur and was born a calico cat, she was ostracized by other cats at the temple she was training at and eventually forced out. She made her way to Gensokyo, where she lived a happier life. I think my wording here was a little inaccurate. This is a situation a bit more specialized to Mike than Calico cats, but the idea stems from people tossing out cats of certain colors because they’re either perceived as unlucky or not lucky enough. But like all other cats, they just want to be loved.
Marisa was terribly interpreted in this story, she has no reason for doing that if Chimata didn't ask her. Megumu would be MUCH better fot the plot, but is not all that bad, since Nitori also apears to advise Marisa.
So does this game Slight Rival a Bit of a Joke Game term of Story Like Metal Gear Rising Revengeance If that's the case if the most the game being Not taken Seriously Final Battle has That Biggest Impact On Lives only for the Main charater mabye letting some go one a bit longer for the sake of the Status Quoe I Guess This is The Touhou Version of Metal Gear Rising Revengeance minus the Bloodshed and that the Final Boss is a Joke Instead of the BEAST Mabye that why Marisa Didn't get Number 1 in this Touhou Popularity Poll
Modern Nitori portrait isn't real, it cannot hurt you
Modern Nitori portrait:
Nitori in touhou 19?
I assume it was an attempt at a head angle with some vertical dynamic? That's what it looks like to me, at least.
Chimata: What are you doing?
Marisa: Resolving an incident?
Chimata: ...
Marisa Okay, fine! I'll go actually resolve it.
not a resolve but make a cheating deal
Chimata: Are you *Resolving The Incident* , son?
Marisa: Fine! I'll go actually resolve it.
@@AlexandroDarioFessia2007ARG 18.5 has terrible pacing when you play it, but it feels exactly like how Marisa would act .
I like it when side games let the stage 1-4 characters show off more. Later stage bosses usually get most fleshed out, and get their time in the spotlight. Letty, Yuugi, and Eternity come to mind for early stage bosses that haven't shown their full potential. Sure I'm missing more.
Letty is explicitly stated by ZUN to be powerful enough to be the final boss of a game, she just doesn't have any desire to cause conflict.
Three things:
1. Junko also gave up in th15
2. The incident also went unresolved in th9
3. Does anyone know if the final fight dialogue changes if you replay it WITH all the cards unlocked and purchased? There's an achievement so the game should be aware of it.
Geez this really swapped my whole point of view of the game.
I thought it was gonna be some sort of dumb irrelevant Continuation of 18
But now seeing the translated version…
Huh this is an inside joke story and I love it.
I kinda love how nonsense insane all of it is.
Touhou is so- Itself
Stop typing like that
@@guy_th18 oh god I must have been half asleep when I wrote that wtf
@@trashleytheartist 👍
I love how Touhou went from something as serious and high-stakes as 17.5 to... this. it's silly and such a breath of fresh air!
i wasn't aware people didn't like the story of this game
i thought it was bonkers and nonsensical, but in a funny way, and it made me like takane a little more
It’s very Gensokyo to say the least
I mean, Gensokyo is basically a retirement home for nonsense
@@captaindoesyoutube7925 Basically? It's literally a world where the supernatural(AKA outside the ordinary, AKA nonsense) go after being forgotten(retiring).
also... Marisa is the only playable character
the character known for often having the silly nonsensical dialogue (like seriously just look at some of her Touhou 6 conversations) is one half of every conversation in the game. even other games with much more firm stories feel like a bunch of random nonsense if Marisa is the only route you've experienced.
considering this I wouldn't have the story be any other way
I’m pretty sure Takane being the final boss, and the one behind the black market is meant to be hinting towards Her theme and appearance.
Takane’s Theme “Banditry Technology” fits well with the “Illegal Black Market” theme, like how Team Rocket, a criminal organization, was behind the Pokemon Gambling place, and Bandits are usually known as criminals.
Touhou 18.5 feels like a Touhou literary work story. Building up an incident to some climax, all to resolve in a rather unclimatic way like Okina's incident in Lotus Eaters. Touhou 18.5 simply brought it all to game form.
I don't really mind since Zun seems to prefer to expand the lore than progressing some grand plot in the universe, but it does feel rather weird since the games at least gave you a grand battle before resolving everything back to the status quo. This game just spoils it own ending before the final boss.
I just wished the game wasn't so grindy for lower skilled players.
Grinding actually makes it harder believe it or not, the more of each stage's cards you have , the more it permanently ups the difficulty.
honestly, i’m glad this story exists, i like how zun made a story as completely bonkers and off the wall like this one. but a part of me really wants to see zun take some of his stories a bit more seriously in the future. i do appreciate the light hearted toe of touhou, sure, but given how fantastic and memorable the story of touhou 17 turned out, and given the backstories of characters from byakuren to even mike, i think there’s tons of potential for stories with a darker tone in the future. i think this story was a fun experiment, but it would be awesome to see zun put more emphasis on the story in the future
Subterranean Animism and Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom had higher stakes than usual and felt a bit darker than the common fare.
this is truly red eye marisa story writing
I loved Takane's "We surrender" attitude. Not to mention Marisa's a formidable foe, Takane's being totally logical here - better avoid fight that's not winnable
Touhou is not known for elaborate storytelling, so I didn't mind the brief dialogues in-game
After all, ZUN doesn't write 500 words long codex entry for a side character like BioWare for each game he releases
Thanks to this video, I finally figured out what the hell is happening in the game, dialogue in Touhou games is quite hard for to understand. Guess I'm in the party who didn't enjoy its wacky nature, but it does give some turn in Marisa's character I suppose. In a way it's kind of like Touhou 9, since nothing really happened in this game, but instead of being retrospective on several characters, it focuses on one and her greed. Even if anyone could scoff off as a one-time thing, given the shift in story perspective starting in 16 (or arguably in 14), I do believe her greed might play part in the future installments/works
Even though a certain game I know has the opposite problem of having a lot of dialogue every stage (especially in later ones), I would rather have that than tolerating 10 hours of rougelike hell, I really didn't enjoy playing 18.5 at all (and this is coming from a guy who loves rougelikes)
Megapig9001: Says it has a crazy story.
Foul Detective Satori: Hold my handcuffs.
This was good i would like to see this become a series
I wonder how things will go in Touhou 19
Guess
I’m a bit late to the party but still, the plot of 18.5 is not crazy at all, according to some nerds I met heavily armed with economics knowledge. I’m just here to convey a brief summary of their interpretations in layman's terms. And throw in a few of my own septims, you never know.
To understand the plot of 18.5, let’s take a look at the plot and character development of UM.
Chimata yearned to restore her former glory as the god of traditional markets, where people gather and trade face-to-face, unlike our online shopping today. To some extent, she represents the desire for the benefits that a substantial market can bring to an authority - taxes, regulations, a sense of control/ownership, etc. After entering Gensoukyo, she attempted to adapt to the trend of dispersive/decentralized trading by creating cards that switch ownership only if they are traded properly. Yet this method deviated from its aim and created something even more decentralizing - the separation of skill and labour. Traditionally, you’ll need the labourers to come in person to perform their gimmicks, and now you can just buy their corresponding skill cards! They likely won’t even profit from patents or something. Considering the recent trend of AI learning from creators and reproducing their styles at an alarming rate, this arc is an eerily accurate, analogous prediction.
Back to Chimata. To reach Marisa’s alternate ending, you’ll need the Blank Card and ditch other ability cards, which, according to those nerds, is an analogy to authorities ‘killing’ transactions backed by (somewhat)real values with the use of credit currencies(insert ‘money printers go brrr’ joke here). Chimata went bedridden likely realizing she was her own downfall. At the time of Touhou 18.5 though, she appears well and dandy. She has franchised her belief: instead of posing as a traditional regulator, she now preys on fluidity. The market has not died out as predicted, and she switches from desperately asserting domination to manipulation. Despite explicitly expressing the desire to end the black market, she knew everyone would attempt to benefit from it somehow and thus it would thrive.
I focus on Chimata because her character underwent drastic changes between 18 and 18.5. Other characters didn't. Now hear me out:
Yamawaro have always been the profiteers. They wanted a monopoly in the black market; when that turned out to be impossible and Marisa wanted to fight, they immediately chose the most economically rational option - to surrender. They always maximize profits and minimize losses, after all. They are a symbol of capitalism's logic.
Nitori represents players in the market who brandish the 'progressive' mallet, technologically or ideologically, whatever furthers their branches. Despite kappas having been quite the successful capitalist entrepreneurs themselves, in this game Nitori developed a card named "Capitalism's Dilemma", quoting "someone's pulling the strings, I want to bust it all up". As if spreading misinformation and causing scenes as depicted in all those literary works does not pass for "pulling the strings"! Indeed, old monopolies manipulate the market, and so do booming big tech companies. Kappas are also part of this Dilemma. Well, they still follow their archetype, just for the sake of my argument. (One of the aforementioned nerds who is also a communist insists that ZUN was inserting his own urge to take down capitalism. People could have self-destructive tendencies, you know.)
Marisa is a confirmed hoarder now; I bet we have always known that. She bears the irrational force in the market(by classic economics standard). Driven by fever, she kept pushing forward and could not stop fighting even when she should(again, by classic economics standard). An academia-defined world is dull, innit?
Anyway, all participants reached a decent settlement. Chimata freed fluidity from potential monopoly, Kappas took advantage of the fluctuation and opted in, Marisa collected cards and will get more, while Yamawaros got to keep the market going longer. Such is the charisma of the free market!
wow that's some good research and reflexion! Good take on Chimata, her sneaky attitude goes very well with the manga too. We should made a document with all the solid theories. I would add a quick research on the dilemna gives this :
"This is the capitalist's dilemma: Doing the right thing for long-term prosperity is the wrong thing for investors, according to the tools that guide investments"
Nitori is probably on the long term construction/ artisanat I guess? That's why she is mad?
The anti-climatic end is perfect to show indirectly the fever of Marisa, that , as player, we have too. We don't need, but we must fight the final boss!
For 18th, someone said the card is the covid pass, you see Tsukasa 3 times aka the nurse, before at the tunnel you suffocate. Megumu the politics, Misumaru the bourgeois class and Momoyo the working class, that extract natural ressources.
I have a feeling ZUN for this era is rewritting the whole economic cycle and the economy/cards will create problems with the grounds of Gensokyo (TH19) with no owners. Quantity of cards and bullet money goes up (inflation) but grounds crashes to nada( economic bubble pop)
not eco nerd myself, but I love to find all the hidden things in ZUN's works.
@@corbeauwrite Good take!
Been busy with life the past month; didn't even catch up with the new game.
I skipped quite a lot in the reply, for it was already long. (e.g. The casino-speculation analogue, the card system being fiat money, etc.) All these interpretations deserve documenting, podcasting and over-analysis, I believe, which might lead the community to touch some deeper societal grass.
I might sound like an ambitious power-tripper with big words and little real grit but this is exactly what those Chinese influencers has been attempting to do with the Chinese Touhou community - their version of enlightenment. Inevitably the youngest Touhou fans will touch grass too; I cannot do it alone for I pale in professionalism, connections and time. Perhaps someone with network can send a few of these interpretations to professionals?
You and your economic friends may like "Touhou - Shoutoku Coin (Opagi)" if not already aware of it. It shows what befalls a Gensokyo which dabbles in economics without the guidance of a God...
I loved this game as it was the first Touhou game I got to play on release. Real highlight for me's definitely that one time I was messing with Nitori's card. Managed to somehow break it hard enough to the point it gave me a 1-2k profit per card instead of a cost
I recently discovered that Touhou 18.5 came out and everyone in OST videos hated on it so I am glad this video exists to explain everything nicely. Honestly, a win from ZUN.
Surprised people don't like the actual story, usually I see people dislike how the structure of the finale is done and wanting Takane to have a fancier pattern, but get solid chuckles out of seeing Takane of all people be the final boss and stuff like surrendering and so on.
My favorite part of the story is honestly the stuff you only get when you read the Blank Card and the post-game market: Chimata could have just ended the market whenever she wanted with her power, but she clearly wanted it to grow more and then stop it in this roundabout method so she could get full control of it herself and fully benefit from it. Basically wound up using both sets of Kappa and Marisa for her own gain, it's great.
Zun was: ok I have 3 dnd dices, what ever the combination is that will be the story.
for you it was a crazy story, for marisa it was a tuesday
Couldn't agree more. I just revisited a game where she, Reimu and Sakuya team up with a pair of sentient drums to nonchalantly go on a worldwide dragon slaying musical tour.
I'm not talking about a fangame by the way, you can actually unlock them as party members in Taiko Drum Master Rhythmic Adventure 2's story mode alongside Kirby, Dedede, MH4 Palicos and Phoenix Wright.
I feel like ZUN made 19 an adjustment based on a lot of the feedback to 18.5. So much damn plot, tons of mindblowing character lore reveals (Yuuma knew pre-shikigami Ran??), and a definitive action-packed resolution that ties together the arcs of the Animal Realm mafias and Chimata/the markets
Spinoff stories in nutshell:
StB:Aya:imma gonna take pictures for unknown reasons from other people
DS:Aya:imma still doing the same from StB
Hatate:LOL,imma gonna steal some pictures and articles from you
Aya:how could you?lets fight
ISC:Seija:ANARCHISM,yessss
Meiling:stop yo crap
Seija:nooooooo
VD:sumeriko:immma exist
Everyone in her dream:DIE
Doremy:LOL lets watch her die for 100th time
Fake sumeriko:OK
HBM:marisa:well maybe i couldn't have the great power from the mountains (LLS)or become a god in makai(MS)but still.....i can buy cards illegally and dont solve tha incident for at least a matter of time
Zun while making these:how to make the a nonsense lore behind a game?lemme show ya
I forgot this game existed
I think it could be read as a serious topic, Takane is the boss because she hacked into the position of a boss, with manipulating prices of litteral "stocks" of Gensokyo, she is the buyer/reseller that everyone wants to be with. She avoid conflicts because she is a profit-oriented person that keep in mind effectivness, while everyone is danmaku-oriented.
Marisa is already greedy before the games (hoarder ill), she is both the symbol of human and greed : aka : "I think speculative markets are insane, so I stop it, but...I want a little piece of it.." and we all are like that. At the very end, ZUN talk as Marisa saying more or less, the cards will stay, because greed will stay too.
TH18 is heavy on the symbolism of stock/Local market and covid era, it's subtle but well present
ZUN made an ephemeral game about inflation too, it's "Gold Rush", he got a good grasp how economy and hyperinflation works (You'll be suprised how few people understand this) , if you want to learn about Japan's one, go check "Princes of the Yen" on youtube, it's quite heavy but very informative.
In the new game, the 19th, it seems the plot is moving because of Chimata's ability to relinquish ownership, guess because of who?
The fact this game is in surface not serious could be done to stay low profile on the fact it's the origin of the very serious (next) game.
I had given up on beating this game (the difficulty is bonkers) so glad I was able to get the tl;dr here. Heck, it almost makes me wanna give it another go
Marissa just kicks someones ass for no reason
Okay I think I know where Zun was going for this game, I think some inspiration about the black market was from both wall street bets vs the hedge funds.
just one thing out of curiosity. what did you mean by "the game highlights Marisa's independence"?
Marisa’s able to solve an incident on her own (with help from Chimata and Nitori, but there’s no other protagonists), but her choice not to end it highlight what makes her different as a character. It’s a selfish choice, yes, but it’s also a choice she made where she’s confident that nothing else would go wrong under her watch.
@@Megapig9001 I see... that helps me understand it better. thanks.
I found it to be peak touhou story telling. 11 out of 10 in fact.
I am still trying to cope with her eyes being red not being significant tho.
i love the story, i just wish it had more dialogue. i wouldve loved hearing something from the characters, even though that wouldve required a lot of new art.
You joke about Larry being the final boss, but when you pick Dry Bowser as your playable character in the Puzzles and Dragons crossover, *Boom Boom* is the final boss. The rules of common sense do not apply to Mario, to the point that some sources claim that the real canon is that the cast is actually a troupe of actors that often get typecast.
Ah didn’t think about that game lol. Iirc a Kooling is technically a final boss in Mario is Missing or Mario’s Time Machine, and Bowser’s left to a cutscene.
"Can you imagine if Larry Koopa was the final boss of a Mario game?"
Welcome to my notebook, strap in.
I wont beat this game anytime soon anyway. Might as well get the full story told to me. Thanks!
Edit: Funny that people dont like this story? I read enough official printmedia to say that whatever is going on in this game story wise is not any different to any other story ZUN has ever written. Its a very typical official Touhou story.
And why would the yamawaro or kappa for this matter NOT manipulate the markets to fill their own pockets? They do this all the time! A kappa being the true mind behind the incident is as logical as it gets.
Precisely what I was wondering. I thought the story was fine all things considered. Zun rushed out a game (and was very transparent about that) and clearly had some fun while doing it. This is a very Touhou story with an added pinch of ridiculousness. If I had to rush a game like Zun did, I would have tried to do the same thing to at least make up for the rush.
My boi Larry needs more love, nintendo should really give him a final boss appearance
Could someone explain to me the "Hm ZUN, hm ?" part at 5:03 to me please ? I kind of have an idea of what it means but I'm not smart enough to be sure
NFT retardation is what's referenced there
I'm not a 100% sure, but I think it's"referring" to the recent issues regarding the piracy for Touhou games.
@@OkamiKai6980 oh alright I didn't think it was that simple. Thank you !
@@YoannBB you're welcome!
yeah, kinda strange story buut... the gameplay is kinda fun :}
This entire story is a shitpost and i am entirely here for it to be honest, had me cackling the hole time
I feel like zun made this for fun
As a proud touhou noob all of my knowledge is half out of context so I only _kinda_ get what makes this crazy but honestly I still think all the batshit insane moon bullshit is crazier
The Touhou Moon War is often what I use to describe how crazy Touhou’s story gets to newcomers
@@Megapig9001 Not even the moon war, just the moon bullshit itself
I've seen my fair share of weird lore, but I've never had to say "Rewind 3000 years, enter the moon people who have enslaved the moon rabbits" before
i think after touhou 17 and 17.5 people wanted a more darker and immersive story but then 18 and 18.5 came and it's just the Reimu and the crew going after a bunch of goofs and schemers, complete with good ol'Marisa badgering a mountain kappa for a proper final boss fight.
when it comes to how idyllic or grimdark canonical touhou is I refer to the first boss of touhou 6, which was effectively a reboot of the lore, Rumia, the Youkai of Darkness whose title in any other story would be the title of a final boss or villain of the week but in touhou she's just a dumb little cannibal that couldn't understand that shrouding herself in a ball of darkness meant she can't see shit as she flew around. and when she got beaten by the protagonist, she was barely heard from again,.
Zun even pointed out that this was intentional, a way to explain that not everything will be a predictable story. he also designed Flandre to look different from her sister not for lore reason but to go against what a vampire should look like, to this day Flandre's wings are still iconic of herself, not a vampire.
ye
Cmon guys let ZUN shitpost sometimes
Isn't the point of the lack of conclusion to this game to demonstrate the fall to corruption? Despite setting out to resolve the black markets' illicit activities, Marisa decides that with the control she now exerts over the whole operation, "Why not profit from this myself?" The same as any avaricious businessman, politician, or person altogether who's ever entrusted with power. Though not hugely familiar with the 18/18.5 plot, it seems to me these two games have sort of been a critique on the corruption inherent in money and power, alongside especially the increasing inequalities that have arisen because of COVID, which I think is a very potent and pressing issue nowadays, especially considering how the role of the individual and non-corporate layman in the modern market is becoming slimmer than ever... Whether the cute-girl bullet shooter game is the best avenue for this message is probably dubious though, lol...
The bottom part is the big one. The anti-climax isn’t that bad for the story, but in terms of the actual game’s pacing and difficulty, it does lead to a really strange conclusion that can lead to a lot of players feeling unsatisfied.
@@Megapig9001 Yeah, understandable.... anyway thanks for the vid man, it was very funny reading this plot lol
0:51 what is the calico cat idea (someone elaborate please)
So from Mike’s backstory, because she didn’t have pure white fur and was born a calico cat, she was ostracized by other cats at the temple she was training at and eventually forced out. She made her way to Gensokyo, where she lived a happier life. I think my wording here was a little inaccurate. This is a situation a bit more specialized to Mike than Calico cats, but the idea stems from people tossing out cats of certain colors because they’re either perceived as unlucky or not lucky enough. But like all other cats, they just want to be loved.
@@Megapig9001 cat racism
@@Megapig9001 thank you i love mike
Wow! Someone who's allowed to have and express an opinion on this game!? As an "Easy mode p-ssy" I'm not allowed to have an opinion apparently. 🤣😂🤪
Marisa was terribly interpreted in this story, she has no reason for doing that if Chimata didn't ask her.
Megumu would be MUCH better fot the plot, but is not all that bad, since Nitori also apears to advise Marisa.
I mean, Marisa likes to collect stuff...
Megumu more like you say it like megaman
@@professorxavier620 Sadly, there is no way to just steal everything and go "duck the marketpolice, you'll never get me alive!"-hard mode
*confusion*
So this whole game is a giant shitpost taking a piss on shady economic practices? Goddamn it ZUN, You cheeky little shitposter.
I really hate the story of this game but the gameplay choices even more, like, really the first touhou game I genuinely hate
So does this game Slight Rival a Bit of a Joke Game term of Story Like Metal Gear Rising Revengeance If that's the case if the most the game being Not taken Seriously Final Battle has That Biggest Impact On Lives only for the Main charater mabye letting some go one a bit longer for the sake of the Status Quoe I Guess This is The Touhou Version of Metal Gear Rising Revengeance minus the Bloodshed and that the Final Boss is a Joke Instead of the BEAST Mabye that why Marisa Didn't get Number 1 in this Touhou Popularity Poll
Kool kool kool, I'm still pirating the game tho
Do they have a shikieiki pirate screen?
@@Angrycheesepizza it has a murasa title screen, and is holding my files hostage
J