Bird Mouth Joinery: A 12-sided decorative bowl with tapered staves
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Tapered staves greatly expand the spectrum of easy, high-quality and unique projects available from bird mouth joinery (BMJ). As an example, this video describes the detailed construction of a large decorative bowl with 12 sides, made from African mahogany and ash. Pictured also are 8-sided bowls, serving trays, and a classy waste basket, made by closely related BMJ methods.
Have an idea and I would appreciate any advice on how to pull this off. I would like to make a bowl using tapered staves that have progressively larger angles. Let's say I make a 6-in round 3-in tall bowl with a 60° angle, I would like to add on top of that another 3-in tall bowl with a 45° angle, and then finally another 3-in tall bowl on top of that with a 30° angle so that the bowl flares out as you get further from the base of the bowl. Hope that makes sense, hope you can give me some advice on how to pull this off.
A lovely job. Is there a 'formula' for calculating the stave widths for any given diameter?
Nice bowl is the general finish food safe? Am looking to buy .
Wonderful video, watching you in the vids is like coming to see an old friend, informative, relaxing and comfortable. Beautiful bowls, I think one of these will be the first that I make with BMJ. I do struggle to get different hardwoods, most suppliers round here, most the big home stores, do not have a large selection, but I will use what I have been able to get. Thank you again for being there for us, it IS much appreciated.
You are very generous, Dave! I'm just having fun and very lucky to have interested viewers, such as yourself.
Dave, your videos are great! Even though I am an old pro cabinetmaker/finish carpenter, I have never used bird mouth joinery. And this particular video was of interest to me since the 'problem' here to be solved is tapered staves to create a tapered 3D bowl/structure. Now, as you know, if I were to simply butt-join tapered stays to particular radii (top and bottom), I would have to do the trigonometry (or look up on a table) to ascertain the compound angle needed on the edges. . . But this method doesn't seem to need any compound angle edges, am I correct? I see that only half of the staves in this video are 'bird-mouthed,' but what if all were? Thanks in advance!
Is it possible to make such a bowl on a circle saw?
Great stuff! Thank you for sharing. I must say, I like seeing someone with old hands like myself still creating and shaping bits of the world.
Thanks, Brian! The old hands don't look so good but I'm thankful they still work pretty well!
You’re never too old to learn new techniques. Your explanation is articulate and precise. Thank you
Outstanding explanation Mr Henry. I want to make a 12 side waste basket just like the bowl you just made, but I could use your help calculating it if you don't mind. Basket 14" high , top 12" across and the bottom 8" across, approximately. What size do I want to cut my straight staves ? What size do I want the tapered staves ? I love your work. I bought a complete set of B M J cutters, and 3 1/4 HP router.
After watching your video I’ve got bug to give this a try. Have had the bits for a few years. I really like the look of your finish. Thank you for taking the time to make and share this video with us.
It's a first for me, seen many ideas on making bowls but never a BMJ, thought provoking, must find out more about the specialist routing bits, thanks for sharing
Well David, you have gotten me to buy a set of these bits. Going to try my hand with them here after November. I always try to make stuff for Christmas. I might try a bowl but I am leaning towards some 8 sided napkin holders. Love the videos!
I just finished a trial 12 sided bowl. I notice an error David Henry did not stress. The straight staves have to be longer than the tapered ones. It is easy to calculate by how much - but it's important.
As a 40 year woodworker, I learned lots and also very unique woods. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks, Ian! I appreciate your taking the time for your kind comments.
Best regards from México Mr. David! Awesome videos, thank you for share your experience.
Muchas gracias, Miguel!
Great project very good workmanship. How do you determine the angle on the tapered staves?
Muy bonito muchos exitos
SR. David Henry, muy buen video excelente trabajo en madera
Is that glue in a copper pipe cap?
Cool set up on ur router table with that box set up as part of the dust collection, THANX for the video
Great to watch master at work. Thank you - truly inspirational.
Hi, I live in the UK and very interested in making a windmill body with tapered sides ( Cone shape) would it be ok to do each stave with all sides tapered and using the birdmouth method, if all staves are cut with the same taper would it fit together without gaps. Thanks for your methods, of using birdmouth bits.
Mr. Syd Andrews
Thank you for the video, I was wondering if you cut all 6 tapers on the right side and then taper the stop block to do the opposite 6
Hi Markv! Thanks for the comment! If I understand your question correctly, the answer is yes. As the video shows, I only taper six of the 12 staves. The six tapered staves are first tapered on one side (the right side as shown in the video) using a square stop block. These six staves are then tapered again on the opposite side(the "left" side) using a tapered stop block. Doing it this way doesn't require resetting the angle of the miter saw, with the possibility of an error creeping in.
thank you now i need to figure out the diameter and height i think 12 inch bottom and 4 inch top at 20 inch tall
Really nice. Asking this, why dont cut at the beginning the rabbets before assembling the wood slabs one by one.
De lujo maestro muy bueno gracias por compartir que Díos te bendiga
Wow great work I like d finish, is it varnish ?
Hi Skillz! Thanks for the comment. The finish is General Finishes polyurethane-oil.
Wonderful
I need to make something like this for school but the angles of the mitres is very confusing
That’s really nice and great explanation ❤❤
Serviço maravilhoso, parabéns,
São paulo BRASIL
David, Thoroughly enjoyed your video and instruction. If you weren't a shop teacher you should have been. Your video has motivated me to attempt a bowl like yours and I emphasize "like," yours however, I doubt mine will not look anything like yours. Keep the videos coming. Best regards.
Hi David! Thanks for your generous comments! Good luck with that bowl; if you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
I love your BMJ work, I would love to try it, keep up the great videos David
Glad you liked it! Why not give it a try?
Since some months, I think about a cheap and light drum. I think this is the solution. Thank you.....
Thanks for the comment, Roy! I hope the drum turns out well!
Glad that I've stumbled upon your channel. There's nothing like watching experience talks for itself. Indeed its a privilege to subscribe. Well done mate. Cheers.
Great video Mr. David Henry!
Thank you for your kind comment, Miguel! Sorry for not responding sooner.
Top Top Show Cool TKS!!!!!
Thanks, Edy!
I love this video. Is it safe you use the bowl for food like a salad with that finish? Thank you for the video, I can’t wait to try this
thank you so much sir....
Tell us more about your home made fence at the 7:00 min mark. Great video by the way.
Thanks for the kind words and for watching the video, No Name Brand!
Regarding the home-made fence, when I embedded the router into my benchtop to make a router table twenty years ago, I expected to have to buy a fancy fence of some kind. But, because I couldn't wait to try the router table, I used a squared up piece of construction pine for a 'temporary' fence, holding it in place with two C-clamps (second C-clamp is not quite visible on the right). It worked so well I'm still using it. This set-up is not as versatile as commercial router tables but has met my needs just fine. The fence has been grooved on the underside to allow easy escape of chips from BMJ bits into the collection box. This arrangement also allows for delicate depth of cut adjustments by loosening the visible C-clamp slightly and pivoting the fence slightly around the other C-clamp.
thanks David.
What a gorgeous piece! Thank you!
Thanks, Christopher!
wow save them cut offs for wedges to use in wedged tenon joinery. :)
That's beautiful David. It's something I've been looking for for a while. I shall be coming back again and again, looking forward to seeing more of this BMJ which you do so well, regards Stewart
Thanks, Stewart! I hope that my future videos live up to you high expectations! I will be doing more on bowls and trays.
Nice bowl
Hello from Scotland. I have watched all your video's and this one is just as good. Love the simple router table. Keep giving us more idea's.
Hi Walter! I am both impressed and very complimented by your having watched all of my videos! Many thanks. I'm about half finished with a video describing construction of an 8-sided bowl similar to those in this video.
David just tuned in to your channel all I can say it's awesome just awesome. Keep up the good work.
Thanks for your kind comments, Billy!
i cut 6-3" 6 3/12" staves ,after tape up, bowl 6-8"short of closing diameter was 16"what is wrong
Hi John! Sorry for the delay in replying. I can't really help much without more information; could you send me a couple of photos of the work (close-up and the complete assembly) via my website? (www.davidhenrywoodarts.com/) A long-shot guess at this point would be that you accidentally used a 16-side bit rather than the 12-side bit required for the project. They look very much alike, at least in my Yonico set of BMJ bits.
you are correct, thank you .
Ha! I did exactly the same! My Yonico set arrived with the 6/12 bit and the 16 bit in the wrong places in the box. So the diagrams in the box implied the 6/12 bit was a 16 bit. I used it trying to make the 12 sided bowl and of course I could not close it up in the dry fit. That's when the penny dropped!
Thanks
And thank you, J. Tandon, for watching my video!
Very nice project David!!
I'm am going to have to add that to my BMJ napkin holders and boxes that you taught me how to make.
Thanks again for taking the time to share your talents. JimE
Thanks again, Jim! If you ever get into bowls, I'd love to see a photo!
Results are superb and so is the tutelage.
Senhor im in love for your job, you are an artist, thanks Paulo From Brazil!
Thanks for your generous remarks, Paulo!
Parabéns ! Um mestre no conhecimento e na forma de explicar e ótimo vídeo. Congratulations from Brasil.
Obrigado pelas gentis palavras, Marcos!
Просто восхитительно!!!!!!!
mr henry sure do enjoy your videos THANK YOU
Hi Bill! THANK YOU for your generous comments!
Well Doe. You have made some lovely stuff, gorgeous bowls.
Thanks, seedubyu!
Dave, glad to see the new videos for the 6/12 sided bit. A;so some great ideas for 8 sided projects. I assume you must play around with angles (on scrap stock) to achieve the desired side slope. Jim
Hi Jim! Thanks for the comments!
You assume correctly. As you probably know, tapering the staves makes the BMJ joint fit increasingly poor as the taper increases. For small tapers up to 5-7 degrees or so, the problem is not noticeable and projects like this 12-sided bowl work well. To have both tight joints and large tapers (e.g. the taper in the 8-sided bowls/trays shown in the video are 30 degrees), it is necessary to cut compound angles when doing the tapers. A compound miter saw makes it easy. There is also a small block plane hand trim needed for a perfect fit. Finding the right adjustments is pretty much a cut-and-try proposition, for me , at least. Sounds complicated, but is quick and easy to perform once you know where you're going. I'm working on a video about how to do this now.
Would you please make a video for the 8-sided bowl?
I'm working on it as we speak! Thanks for your interest!
Thanks I’ve been making equal length sides tapered stave octagons to go around my barrel garden planters and at 22.5 compound octagon angles and 15 degree regular angles everything lines up perfectly with 7 sides but when I add the 8th side the 22.5 degree angles have to separate a little to make it all work and then there’s little gaps
Hi Kevin! Thanks for the comment and for watching my video! Sorry, but without actually having my hands on the project I don't think I can help with your problem. I know how frustrating these angle fit problems can be. What I can say is that an acceptable fit can probably be figured out by making small adjustments to those angles you mention. You might find some inspiration in the how-to write-up provided by Lee Valley on their online catalog website on the page describing their bird mouth joinery bits. They talk a lot about tapers and odd numbered sides for BMJ projects.
davidhenry32 if seven tapered stave boards at 22.5 angles fit together perfectly in my tapered stave octagon, for extra planters around my garden barrels, but to put the 8th board in the octagon I have to kind of mvoe the seven boards boards apart to put the 8th board in and so that separates the inside angles a little, so would maybe a 23.5 angle work? I’ll see if I can private message you a photo, thanks!
I had the same problem and solution - my 8 staves were slanted by 13 degrees, and I cut them as recommended at 22.5 degrees. However, only 7 staves could be fitted - rather well (lucky for me - I chose at random the right angle...). I then found out the following video: th-cam.com/video/_CRJsn_pQ7Q/w-d-xo.html. The guy there explains that if you use slanted staves, the angle must be different than the angle used on straight staves. According to his calculations - indeed a 13 degrees slanted 8 sides bowl will become a 7 side bowl. So if any of you want to use BMJ bits you must use straight staves together with slanted staves. Using slanted staves only will lead to poor fit.
@@davidhenry32 The Lee Vally link, still a little confusing I'm just starting experimenting with this. assets.leevalley.com/Original/10091/45160-bird-s-mouth-joinery-bitst-c-01-e.pdf
Why did you remove that little spacer piece instead of adjusting the stop block? Great video.
Thanks much for your cool comments and for your interest. Jeff! Good question!
That little stop block trick is an example of the most "proper" technique for using a miter saw. It's a nuisance and I often am too impatient to bother, but there is a valid reason. When cutting small parts against a stop block, as I was doing, it is tempting to raise the saw blade immediately after the cut while the blade is still moving. The moving blade, as it withdraws, will often grab the small part and flip it around a bit. This may or may not damage the part. And, If the part is jammed directly against the stop block, some force is exerted against the stop block as the part jumps. This can change the position of the stop block and you might not even notice it. It has happened to me. Removing the spacer loosens the part so the jamming can't happen. Almost as good: let the saw blade stop moving before carefully raising it.
I did not know that, thanx.
@@davidhenry32 thanks. I was curious about the same thing.
Просто восхитительно!!!!!!!
Fantastico ! thank you for your teaching .
Thanks again, Walter!
Nicely done, well presented, great result.
Many thanks, Phil!
Gorgeous work, you have given me many new ideas.
Thanks, Lewis! Glad that you enjoyed the video!
Very nice !! Could it be finished on a lathe ?
Hi Garry! Thanks for the comment and question.
I have seen BMJ constructed blanks used by turners quite a few times in videos, but have not done that myself. This particular bowl might be made of stock too thin to give a sturdy turned bowl but, by building the bowl with thicker stock, I don't see why it couldn't be used on the lathe. I'm not a turner but some construction adjustments might be needed for mounting the bowl in the lathe. Give it a try!
Nice work Dave! It looks great!
Thanks Lou! You've been turning out some pretty fine vids lately, yourself!
Me encantó David. Lindo trabajo
Gracias, Luis!
what size router do you use for the bits
Hi Kenny! I use a 2hp Triton MOF001 variable speed router for my work.
Mr henry we are looking forward to posting more jobs.
Thanks, Sergio! I'm mostly finished with a new video describing an 8-sided bowl with highly tapered staves.
Vou ficar na expectativa, tenho certeza que será um ótimo video
Obrigado, Sergio!
Beautiful bowl
Thanks, Maryke! Glad you liked it!
mr henry did you ever put out a video on how to build a lamp
Hi Bill! Yes, I did. It is part of my video titled "Why Bird Mouth Joinery?" It is a table lamp that is a snap to build. Here's the link: th-cam.com/video/BRU7iDn5m9I/w-d-xo.html . I hope that it is what you want.
thank you for the reply....I think that your work is just awesome again thank you
Very beautiful job
Many thanks, Lenny!
Você é um gênio!
Você é muito gentil, Danilo!
muito bom, ótimas idéias
Olá Sergio! Obrigado pelas palavras amáveis!
davidhenry32 sou seu aprendiz, eu que agradeço
O senhor tem meu respeito e admiração
Impressive Dave. I am a bit confused on cutting the angled staves. You did the first one at 6 degrees. You lost me after that.
Don't ever place your hands near a miter saw as seen here... he's lucky he hasn't lost fingers
mr henry I'm stealing those bowl designs thank you
I'm glad that you like them, Bill! BMJ makes it easy!
Great video, could you have cut the rabbits before the glue up?
Hi Jeff! Thanks, and glad you enjoyed the video!
In theory, it would be possible to cut the rabbets before assembly but, in practice it would be difficult because of the angled sides of the bowl. You would need some type of jig for your router setup to make the rabbet at the correct angle to accept the bowl bottom piece. Otherwise the bottom will not fit flat against the rabbet and the glue joint between bottom and side assembly will have very poor contact.
Another great video, very informative - thank you.
Thanks much!