Ha das ist doch eine nette Idee für ein "Lernspiel". Man bekommt eine Liste mit Einschrenkungen etc und muss diese dann mit möglichst wenig Schildern umsetzen. Das Spiel wäre super für Schüler im Altersbereich von ~15 (wo man die ersten Führerscheine machen kann etc.), Stadtplaner und Politiker.
This is a typical example for a "grown" regulation. Don't know what was first, but it's obvious that at some point somebody said "Hey, we need to allow bikes." Then next came and said "We need to allow taxis." Then some day the proverbial meticulus german police man fined a contractor because he had entered the area to visit a client. Big outcry in the local trade association: "We have to allow contractors." The biggest part of the german Schilderwald comes from things like that. And as most road traffic departments follow the rule "Don't fix it if it ain't broke.", nobody's going to change anything about that.
As a traffic planner I have to admit: yes, this would make much more sense. Especially the circle sign is simply wrong. It's only supposed to indicate that this is the end of a oneway-street. But as soon as I saw all of the exemption signs, my first thought was "... why didn't they use Anlieger frei??" 😂
I was thinking right away that a simple no motor vehicles sign with whatever the German equivalent of "Except for Access" was would do the trick for most of it. Not even certain if the disabled exemption would really be necessary in that case either since if you have already exempted those with a legitimate need to gain access to a destination address within the zone.
@@ElecEdit The first one is a "no passing allowed" not specifically for entry. In Austria the "entry forbidden" can also be used just to block the entry not necessarily only at the end of a oneway.
@@reinhard8053 I'm not an expert on Austrian signage, but as a member of the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals from 1968 (and since you have the same signs as Germany has in that sense, only with a slightly different style), the same rules should apply for Austria as well. The red circle with the white bar should always indicate oncoming traffic at the end of a oneway-street and thus deny entry. The two variants Rew showed at the end is how it should be done (and I think it applies for Austria as well). But don't get me wrong, I can imagine that the way you described it might be used in Austria as well, I can personally only speak for Germany... :)
We used to have similar problems in *the Netherlands*, but there is a law now that limits the number of signs that can be next to a road, based on the maximum speed on the road. The rules include which signs to get rid of, and which ones to keep in such situations. (The higher the speed, the fewer signs there can be). It has removed A LOT of clutter.
We (Austria) have another limit. There must not be more than 2 additional signs at any traffic sign. Otherwise it is not valid at all. On the other hand we sometimes have two "no parking" signs with different additional signs above each other.
I've only seen this sign at *one way* streets _(and thought it would show you can only drive in from the other side)_ and I didn't know, that's possible to have them on both sides. So as a German I learnt another interesting thing about the _Schilderwald!_ :)
Sometimes I think the local politicians ordering these signs are friends with the guy putting them up -> they order additional signs when their friend's business is slow
@@thulyblu5486 Then it would suffice to order signs exchanged more often than they necessarily need to. But quite the opposite is happening almost everywhere.
There are differences between the the two signs „Einfahrt verboten“ and „Durchfahrt verboten“. The Red sign with the white bar („Einfahrt verboten“) means you are not allowed to enter the area. The other one means you are not allowed to drive in the area. so if you would exchange the signs, the time regulation would also affect when you can leave the area.
A road near me (Ipswich, England) _used_ to have the 'no motor vehicles' sign at one end of it; the powers-that-be then replace that with the generic ⛔ no entry sign...then realised the road was actually part of a designated cycle route, so added a 'cyclists excepted' sign. Nu ist es nicht nur Deutschland mit einem Schilderwald!
Yes. "Anlieger frei" in Germany. "anlieger" comes from "liegen", "laying" in English. Means that, if you happen to live there - your domicile happens to LIE beyond that point - you're free to pass.
2:52 "Relax," said the night man "We are programmed to receive You can check-out any time you like But you can never leave!" (Hotel California - The Eagles)
There's a street near me which allows parking only in short stretches along the road interspersed by stretches of no parking allowed. So there are already signs for "parking on", "parking off" every couple of meters or so. This street is near a film studio, and sometimes the street is used for filming. They may then put up additional signs with "no parking on day X between Y and Z", interspersed with the already interspersed parking signs, partially overriding them. It's complete madness trying to comprehend that while driving and looking for a parking space.
The problem with (Anlieger frei) sign and its rules is that they are harder to enforce, because it lies on the local authorities and the police to prove that my entrance was illegal according to (Anlieger frei) complicated rules. Therefore the general prohibition of entrance for certain times are easier to enforce and more common to be used.
But what reason would you have to be there in the first place? Nobody who doesn't need to be in that area would reasonably go there. Or so you'd think. I live on a former main street that was diverted, and is now a pedestrian zone. But you could beat the next traffic light if you tried hard enough. (nobody drives 10km/h in a pedestrian zone! ) It's been five years now... people seem to slowly adapt.
" Sign, sign, everywhere a sign Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?" - Five Man Electrical band
4:25: and now add the "e-scooters" (eKFz) (they are legally motor vehicles and not covered by "cyclists free". they are allowed to use cycling roads, but not covered by cycligst-free-excemptions)
Or Austrians who are just curious about how people from a foreign country live in another foreign country, and then comparing both countries to my country. Like me.
TH-cam promotes him close to his IP Adresse (and people appear like to hear perspective on their "normal"), unless he travels more German speakers appear in the majority.
I can only speak for myself, but i am Danish and i enjoy learing new stuff, both about languages - of which two are prominent in rewboss' videos ;) - and cultural things.
@@BertGrink just out of curiosity; do you happen to know a TH-camr who talks about all things Denmark/Danish? (preferably English - but Danish would work as well as long as the mumbling isn't too bad - no offense, but it's /really/ hard to understand you guys when you speak - reading is fine tho ^^)
If you use "Anlieger frei" in fact everybody could drive in there farther if they invent a reason, such as "Oh I lost my keys there" or "I want to visit some person or a store in this street"
I'm German - I live in Zurich now. One of the larger intersections, Central, barely has signs. Multiple roads, bus and tram lines converge. Everybody is careful, as the rules are only painted or suggested, and the feeling of safety by signage is absent. A sign for everything seems bizarre by now.
5:09 This is almost exactly how we do it in Norway. Its usually a no motor vehicles sign with an adittional text below saying either "Gjelder gjennomkjøring" ("Only for through traffic") or "Gjelder ikke kjøring til eiendommene" ("Doesn't apply to driving to the properties"). I've also seen the "combined bike and footpath" sign combined with "Kjøring til eiendommene tillat" ("Driving to the properties allowed") But that's rather uncommon. I'm pretty sure the red sign with a white bar is only used where it's a single direction road and the traffic will come towards you. This German way of using this sign seems like a dangerous abuse of symbols.
Yeah the usual English language way of doing it would be a no motor vehicles sign with an "Except for Access" plate under it. Does seem a bit confusing Norway not standardising on a single version of the text though not great for international drivers that don't know the local language fully. Seems better having standard versions of the text where possible that would make it easier for an international truck driver coming in with a delivery to learn what to look out for to determine if they can enter to deliver their goods.
@@seraphina985 we also use both Norwegian and English on signs where everyone needs to understand it like at toll road booths etc. But most of the signs with extra text the text is only relevant to locals, tourists aren't residents (or if they rent an Airbnb they probably get instructions to disregard that sign). Another commonly added text to no entry signs is "Gjelder ikke buss i rute" meaning "doesn't apply to busses in regular local service" no tourists is driving a local bus anyway.
@@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug True but does that also exclude delivery drivers? After all remember that delivery drivers come from all over the place certainly there will be deliveries on the roads coming from pretty much everywhere in Europe.
Could it also be said that it's actually dangerous to have so many signs at once, especially if they're close behind another set of signs? Surely there should be a law that the highways authority has to actually justify placing those signs over another set that would require less signs, yet still convey the same message.
Or at least, they could install some signs, warning off people, that are easily distracted, against being distracted by signs! Seriously, the worst thing at all are roadmarkings on innercity crossroads, obviously designed by art students, who want to follow 1920s Dadaists and express their disgust for common rationality. Have a construction site somewhere nearby, have it be night and rainy, so your car's spotlights reflect from puddles, and you try to find your route through a pattern of yellow and white clingon letters at 50 km per hour, with the car behind you already hugging your brakelights and angrily blowing the horns if you slow down only the slightest bit.
I personally think that is not a big problem with safety. It is just unnecessary and confusing but since there are so many signs, germans learn to recognize signs in a matter of milliseconds 😉
1:00 This is actually the wrong sign as it suggests that this is a one-way street and you can enter at the other side. 4:12 is the only correct one in this instance.
We have a really bad Problem with those many signs near my village. Since the new Part of the Autobahn was opened, there is a sign, which should show, in which direction the Autobahn is running But it's so close to the crossing street, if you are traveling down from the Autobahn, you are unable to see the traffic, which is coming from the left and on the right, there is a hill, so you can only see ~50 meters down the road This sign is standing there since March 2019 and there were 19 accidents...
I think that's a bit too "wishy-washy", to be honest: it leaves out the authorized workers and emergency vehicles. In Italy, we'd use something like Main plate: DIVIETO DI TRANSITO ("No passing") sign Additional plate: ECCETTO RESIDENTI, AUTORIZZATI, PORTATORI DI HANDICAP, EMERGENZE ("Except for Residents, Authorized, Handicapped people, Law Enforcement and Emergency Vehicles"). The latter three are represented with a stylized Handicap sign, a stylized Police Officer and a Red Cross.
The first sign is explained wrong. It is in fact, a sign for „you are not allowed to drive into this street“. Often it is on the end of one way streets („Einbahnstraße“). Sometimes the sign only counts during some hours (rush hour, during shool, at night time, etc.) This transport vehicle driving into the street is probably allowed because the time is between 6 and 8 pm.
@@thulyblu5486 No it does not matter. Anlieger means having an issue in the area. You can find the translation of neighbor but that is completly wrong. I dont know who put this wrong translation in the Internet. However there is similar sign with "Anwohner frei". That one is only for local residents.
@@yourTuBaer So let me summarize: disabled people are included in "Anlieger" because "Anlieger" means having an issue in the area, even though they might not have an issue in the area that actually doesn't matter here. What?!
Oh there are new ones now. I found one when driving the other day that is to highlight a cyclist lane for cyclists and get this "riding 50kmh or faster only". Most of the time when driving every day, the signs are basic and easy and when it gets complicated, its still pretty easy. There is about 10 million ways to use the word bitte, and as for der die das. Lets sort out how they talk over here before we get on to their road signs lol Ive been here years now and its still confusing, when even my German friends struggle to use German properly when talking, I do not fancy my chances of ever mastering it.
Well done rewboss. Keep in mind though, that "making things overly complicated" is a benchmark for success in some governmental or related institutions. You don't believe me or think I'm just exaggerating? Look up the "Wertbeutel-Verordnung der Deutschen Bundespost".
So, I sometimes have to drive a lot for work, and this leads to me interacting with a lot of other co-workers who regularly drive. The theory around the watercooler is that this "forest of signs" is a deliberate measure. Once you get something innevitably wrong you get ticketed. Free money for the local city / township / majors office. I know, there's a lot of people complaining about "legalized robbery", but listen: You wouldn't believe some of these very official "traps". I was going through a town, so the speed limit was 50 km/h. Then there's a sign for 30, then one for 30 crossed out again. Then I spot a 30 sign again, almost completely grown over - literally grown into a tree branch - and a radar trap right behind that. Had my GPS not warned me it was there, I would have gotten ticketed. And now they're putting up these new radar traps that look like poles or cut down street lamp stumps with 3 black rings around it. Those are high-speed cameras that can photograph in both directions of the road. And because we have so many signs up, plus street lamps these things can be overlooked quite easily. A money maker. Plus, confusing signage like in this video - it doesn't matter. When you're in a delivery van, you're basically screwed. You have to deliver your stuff and a "I wasn't sure if I was legally allowed to even enter that street" is not going to be accepted as an excuse. It might even get you fired or written up - because you apparently don't know how your job works. Plus, the whole delivery schedule is at stake if you skip someone - you. are. going. to. drive. into. that. street. Because simply everything about your job is skewed in a way that incentivizes you to maybe break the law a little bit just this once? You're not sure, so you're just going to do your job and hope to god that police don't ticket you. Because that comes out of your paycheck if they do. Plus, you have to make this decision in around 15 seconds - you can't just sit there and decypher 5 signs while you're blocking the road.
The only benefit I can think of for putting this specific sign there is the following: people are more likely to unlawfully enter a "motorvehicles prohibited" area, because with the "Anlieger frei" exemption nobody can really tell if you're allowed to drive on one of those streets. "Wrong way" on the other hand puts you in the danger of a head on encounter with an oncoming car, which is making you look like an idiot. So at least non-locals know to back off from that street when they see that sign.
There are some streets in some parts of the UK which have long had "no motor vehicles" signs with an "Except for access" plate (e.g. some in Walton-le-Dale have had such since at least the 1990s). I don't think there is any real enforcement. Maybe the "forest of signs" is easier to enforce than "except for access"?
Erbsengasse. It shows traffic flowing south towards Wermbachstraße, but traffic along Sandgasse is (correctly) shown as flowing east. That makes it impossible to enter the area.
Der abschließende Vorschlag ist logisch, sinnvoll und ziemlich intelligent. Verkehrsteilnehmer könnten diese Schilder unverzüglich verstehen. Damit erfüllt der Vorschlag alle Kriterien, NICHT umgesetzt zu werden.
1:00 - that is not correct. The sign means no entry. So in general it in fact indicates a one way street where traffic flows towards the camera. But white signs below signs modify the general meaning in some way. In this case they restrict it to certain periods of day time and exclude bicycle traffic.
Don’t ask me why but I’m really interested in foreign road signs (as in ones that aren’t British) even welsh ones interest me because of the different language but my favourite by far are European road signs!
"Anlieger Frei" is often disregarded by people, they say "Ich habe das Anliegen, hier rein zu fahren, also bin ich Anlieger und darf das" or stupid things like that. While I like the notion of civil disobedience, this can obviously also produce problems.
1:39 as a British person that incredibly confuses me (the 24 hr clock), it always confuses me when they use it here (I’m 15 years old living in one of the Home Counties by the way) I know we do have it in the UK but it’s always in like train stations and things, even road signs use 12hr clock. And obviously no one in the uk says meet me at 14 o clock but yet they seem to in europe and it’s confusing! question for you: how long did it take to get used to it after moving?
Points taken, but you for legal reasons in my opinion you can't get rid of the »no entry« sign; you can't exchange it with the »all vehicles forbidden« sign, because it's a one-way-road after all. On the other hand: Using it for the entrance of a one-way-road is ridiculous. :D
I'd go 1 step further. Why single out disabled people? If someone who has limited mobility isn't there for a genuine reason (resident, visiting, attending an appointment etc) why would they be there in the 1st place? Isn't "Anlieger Frei" enough on its own?
Great video. And it raised a doubt in my mind.... When you said no need of bicycle sign if you already have motorbike/car signs... Do you mean cycles are allowed to move on streets without marked bike paths? And hence automatically allowed? Also FYI... Would love to meet an English speaker next time I'm in your town... 😊
Basically, yes: bikes are normally allowed on public roads, and normally not allowed on the footpath. But there may be exceptions which are then posted; in particular, a blue sign with a bicycle on it shows a cycle path which cyclists MUST use. The red-bordered sign with the car and motorbike means "No motor vehicles": a bike isn't a motor vehicle and so is allowed. A round sign with just the red border and nothing inside it means "No vehicles of any kind", which bans bikes as well (unless they are being pushed).
there is a road sign for what exactly they wanted to achieve with this terrible set of signs. just make the road or entire area a no car/motorcycle area with a single [anlieger frei] exception. the problem with this sign is that it cant be enforced by police. it literally means what it says. it says no one is allowed to use this street unless you have a reason to drive in this road and park your car.
I know that "Schilderwald" is figurative speech, but at first I thought the video was about signs in the actual forests. Because that is indeed a thing here in Austria. Da sieht man oft den Wald vor lauter Schilder nicht ;) ...Badummm-tss ...sorry ^^
Do you haven't red circle sign with text "tranzit forbidden" in Germany ?(In German language of course). You can enter there, you can park there and you can leave. But you can't go through without stopping...
No, there's no "no transit" sign in Germany. The "Anlieger frei" sign technically allows e.g. residents to use the street for just driving through (for whatever reason), although in reality, that's probably not a big problem.
Visitors from other countries are invited to ignore all these signs like reasonable Germans do, too. Traffic violation fees are ridiculously low in Germany, hence in combination with idiotic signs and very low control density an official demand to give a shit.
You mention self-driving cars. Funnily enough, self-driving cars have a hard time with reliably reading road signs. Especially when dirty or worn out, partly covered, or littered with stickers, automatic image-processing algorithms have much lower detection rates than humans. So while a driving computer may be able to manage a higher quantity of signs, they don't yet have the quality to match the human brain. On top of that, computers lack the contextual awareness necessary to properly understand the meaning of signs or associate them with the proper lane in particularly confusing or complex installations.
This is off the subject, but I have asked your opinion in the past about the lack of Google Street View for much of rural Germany. Your reply of an irrational need for privacy makes me curious about how Germans are dealing with recently unfolding knowledge that major tech companies and governmental agencies are and have been surveilling our privacy for some time, and it is all kept and cataloged.
Mmm...looking at the street I get the impression that it is extremely small, and I suspect "transit" might not have been the original problem there, but maybe, just maybe, there is something in the area which is a "drop off point"...we have the same problem in our street, too, not a transit area normally, but there is a school and a kindegarten, and the helicopter parents regularly manage to basically clog the whole street when dropping off their children. Never mind that there is a street parallel to it with proper parking space which is even directly connected to out street through a small footpath. Oh no, they absolutely HAVE to drop of their children directly in front of the door, it is too much to ask a 30 second walk of them. Anyway, at least our street isn't a one way street and there are alternative routes you can take to leave it. This doesn't seem to be the case there. Though my hazard guess is that the original reason for the "no entry sign" was some sort of drop off point in that area, and then it got expanded over time. In which case a "anlieger frei" sign wouldn't work (since that one would allow a quick drop off), it has to be a "Anwohner frei" sign...in which case you will need pretty much all those original signs with the exception of the time constriction. In any case, though, before judging those kind of signs, it is pretty helpful to figure out why and how they became a thing in the first place. You need to know the original reason why there was a need for regulation in the first place to figure out the perfect combination of signs.
I did ask why the signs were there. The only answer I got was that it was to reduce the total amount of traffic. There is a small concert venue in the area, but the street is open at exactly the time people would be arriving for any concert.
That might explain why they open up the street for that time...I guess the small concert venue complained at one point. And I guess a concert hall isn't a drop off area…. Honestly, I doubt that the people you talked to knew either how this specific construct came to be without looking into their files, and why should they bother?
@@holger_p If someone tells you about a song, you really think of an 19th century inventor. Even after you are already told that it's a band? A very famous band everybody knows? That's plain stupid.
@@holger_p I already told you it is a band. If you don't know the band (what I can't believe) you could just google but you keep posting annoying comments. And a another one. Get a life.
That sign isn't even wrong, it's fatal. It's saying "entrance prohibited becaus end of a 1 way street" ,so when you drive In you are expecting a car that can come at you, so it could happen that you would exit in the "wrong way" since the sign is saying you are entering the one-way street from behind and there is no sign saying that you need to enter in the other side. And if they had added the one-way sign it would even be more confusing. Your idea can't be misunderstood and is easy to understand. Just the one-way sign should get added
Yes, that's what I used to think the sign means, but it isn't. It just means "Do not enter". Traffic regulations don't say it has to indicate a one-way street at all.
@@rewboss that is really crazy. In Germany were everything is regulated, having 2 signs that mean the same in the basic, but with a different meaning in detail. Ok, it makes sence on a privat/company road showing "DO NOT ENTER, entrance prohibited" to make it more clear than a simple "entrance prohibited"-sign that can be overseen, but on a public road it should stay by signs that attach to the public knowledge (one way road exit/exit only), because misunderstanding will lead to accidents, and in that case that sign really is misleading.
a #LegitimateReason for many #GermanDrivers would be: "I want to drive thru that street" ... #RuleOfThumb: If you going for a simpler solution with a #GermanRoadSignSituation, some drivers will show up, to show you that your simple&"loose" rules do not apply to them, ... "Ich darf das, weil ..."
Das lustige ist, dass die meisten Menschen nicht wirklich wissen, was "Anlieger frei" bedeutet. Das Wort "Anliegen" ist nicht mehr sooo geläufig im Sprachgebrauch. Die meisten interpretieren es als "Anwohner frei".
Congratulations! You managed to become far more german than the average german.
Beamte are no average germans
Ha das ist doch eine nette Idee für ein "Lernspiel". Man bekommt eine Liste mit Einschrenkungen etc und muss diese dann mit möglichst wenig Schildern umsetzen. Das Spiel wäre super für Schüler im Altersbereich von ~15 (wo man die ersten Führerscheine machen kann etc.), Stadtplaner und Politiker.
Haha cool!
Das wäre viel zu schwer für die Politiker
Ein sehr deutsches Spiel
Danke für die Idee ;)
Ich hätte richtig Spaß an einem solchen Spiel :D
This is a typical example for a "grown" regulation. Don't know what was first, but it's obvious that at some point somebody said "Hey, we need to allow bikes." Then next came and said "We need to allow taxis." Then some day the proverbial meticulus german police man fined a contractor because he had entered the area to visit a client. Big outcry in the local trade association: "We have to allow contractors." The biggest part of the german Schilderwald comes from things like that. And as most road traffic departments follow the rule "Don't fix it if it ain't broke.", nobody's going to change anything about that.
As a traffic planner I have to admit: yes, this would make much more sense. Especially the circle sign is simply wrong. It's only supposed to indicate that this is the end of a oneway-street. But as soon as I saw all of the exemption signs, my first thought was "... why didn't they use Anlieger frei??" 😂
I was thinking right away that a simple no motor vehicles sign with whatever the German equivalent of "Except for Access" was would do the trick for most of it. Not even certain if the disabled exemption would really be necessary in that case either since if you have already exempted those with a legitimate need to gain access to a destination address within the zone.
Isn't it just "Entry forbidden" which is OK. It doesn't need to set a direction for a one-way.
@@reinhard8053 We have different signs for denying entry for vehicles (or a certain types of vehicles) and end of oneway-streets.
@@ElecEdit The first one is a "no passing allowed" not specifically for entry. In Austria the "entry forbidden" can also be used just to block the entry not necessarily only at the end of a oneway.
@@reinhard8053 I'm not an expert on Austrian signage, but as a member of the Vienna Convention on Road Signs and Signals from 1968 (and since you have the same signs as Germany has in that sense, only with a slightly different style), the same rules should apply for Austria as well. The red circle with the white bar should always indicate oncoming traffic at the end of a oneway-street and thus deny entry. The two variants Rew showed at the end is how it should be done (and I think it applies for Austria as well). But don't get me wrong, I can imagine that the way you described it might be used in Austria as well, I can personally only speak for Germany... :)
Theoretically, you could leave out the disabled sign, since they would only go there if they had an Anliegen
We used to have similar problems in *the Netherlands*, but there is a law now that limits the number of signs that can be next to a road, based on the maximum speed on the road.
The rules include which signs to get rid of, and which ones to keep in such situations.
(The higher the speed, the fewer signs there can be).
It has removed A LOT of clutter.
nice idea!! of course a german neighbor has to show us a better way. :)
We (Austria) have another limit. There must not be more than 2 additional signs at any traffic sign. Otherwise it is not valid at all. On the other hand we sometimes have two "no parking" signs with different additional signs above each other.
@rogerwilco2 that's great. I would love that as European rule. It would avoid many problems and accidents.
If you see something wrong on OpenStreetMap, please leave at least a note for the local mapper.
I'm assuming he's local so he could edit it himself, if he so chooses.
@@startreking but editing need special knowledge and an account on openstreetmap. Adding a note can everyone, even without account.
@@dr2okevin Forgot about logging in, as for editing knowledge the editors I've used all made what goes where self evident.
I've only seen this sign at *one way* streets _(and thought it would show you can only drive in from the other side)_ and I didn't know, that's possible to have them on both sides. So as a German I learnt another interesting thing about the _Schilderwald!_ :)
My driving teacher once counted the signs down our main street. 100. According to him, they could achieve expressing the same thing with only 8.
I think I can top that, 60 signs for one roundabout. could be expressed with 6, Street name and Yield.
Sometimes I think the local politicians ordering these signs are friends with the guy putting them up -> they order additional signs when their friend's business is slow
@@thulyblu5486 But signs are put up by the local tax-funded Straßenbetriebsdienst, not private busnisses.
@@toledoseahawks3348 But the signs themselves are produced by private businesses
@@thulyblu5486 Then it would suffice to order signs exchanged more often than they necessarily need to. But quite the opposite is happening almost everywhere.
"Antrag abgelehnt". :D :D
Mit Sicherheit!
There are differences between the the two signs „Einfahrt verboten“ and „Durchfahrt verboten“. The Red sign with the white bar („Einfahrt verboten“) means you are not allowed to enter the area. The other one means you are not allowed to drive in the area. so if you would exchange the signs, the time regulation would also affect when you can leave the area.
Yes, I know. I said that in the video. My point, though, is that this is unnecessarily complicated.
In Waze, that usually get these things right, it is instead a pedestrian street.
That was your German citizenhsip diploma ! Congratulations!
A road near me (Ipswich, England) _used_ to have the 'no motor vehicles' sign at one end of it; the powers-that-be then replace that with the generic ⛔ no entry sign...then realised the road was actually part of a designated cycle route, so added a 'cyclists excepted' sign. Nu ist es nicht nur Deutschland mit einem Schilderwald!
they thought at least about cyclists. I saw some designated cycle routes in germany which had the red circle signs without an exemption for cyclists
What a marvellous Sunday morning. More street signs, please.
In Australia, I often see "local traffic only," although apparently it still doesn't stop ratrunners.
You need to present this to the city council at their next meeting
In Dutch we have exceptions for "Bestemmingsverkeer" (anyone who NEEDS to be there).
Yes. "Anlieger frei" in Germany. "anlieger" comes from "liegen", "laying" in English. Means that, if you happen to live there - your domicile happens to LIE beyond that point - you're free to pass.
2:52 "Relax," said the night man
"We are programmed to receive
You can check-out any time you like
But you can never leave!" (Hotel California - The Eagles)
There's a street near me which allows parking only in short stretches along the road interspersed by stretches of no parking allowed. So there are already signs for "parking on", "parking off" every couple of meters or so. This street is near a film studio, and sometimes the street is used for filming. They may then put up additional signs with "no parking on day X between Y and Z", interspersed with the already interspersed parking signs, partially overriding them. It's complete madness trying to comprehend that while driving and looking for a parking space.
The problem with (Anlieger frei) sign and its rules is that they are harder to enforce, because it lies on the local authorities and the police to prove that my entrance was illegal according to (Anlieger frei) complicated rules. Therefore the general prohibition of entrance for certain times are easier to enforce and more common to be used.
But what reason would you have to be there in the first place? Nobody who doesn't need to be in that area would reasonably go there. Or so you'd think.
I live on a former main street that was diverted, and is now a pedestrian zone. But you could beat the next traffic light if you tried hard enough. (nobody drives 10km/h in a pedestrian zone! )
It's been five years now... people seem to slowly adapt.
Excellent videos, man! Greetings from Sweden.
I quite agree , we have to many here in Wales too !
I also thought about using the Anlieger frei sign instantly although i have never used a vehicle nor get a drivers licence. Im so smart omg
" Sign, sign, everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery, breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that, can't you read the sign?" - Five Man Electrical band
Simple. Clear. Nice.
I mean if you take the literally... there is a signpost forest. It's pretty awesome!
4:25: and now add the "e-scooters" (eKFz) (they are legally motor vehicles and not covered by "cyclists free". they are allowed to use cycling roads, but not covered by cycligst-free-excemptions)
Well, we love forrests, we love signs; it's just logical to lump it all together :D
Fantastic video. Very well done on this one 👍
Do more Germans view your clips, to learn how non-Germans see them, or more international viewers who want to learn about Germany?
Or Austrians who are just curious about how people from a foreign country live in another foreign country, and then comparing both countries to my country. Like me.
TH-cam promotes him close to his IP Adresse (and people appear like to hear perspective on their "normal"), unless he travels more German speakers appear in the majority.
I can only speak for myself, but i am Danish and i enjoy learing new stuff, both about languages - of which two are prominent in rewboss' videos ;) - and cultural things.
@Khaffit We danes also love to hear, or watch videos, about Denmark ;)
@@BertGrink just out of curiosity; do you happen to know a TH-camr who talks about all things Denmark/Danish? (preferably English - but Danish would work as well as long as the mumbling isn't too bad - no offense, but it's /really/ hard to understand you guys when you speak - reading is fine tho ^^)
If you use "Anlieger frei" in fact everybody could drive in there farther if they invent a reason, such as "Oh I lost my keys there" or "I want to visit some person or a store in this street"
I'm German - I live in Zurich now. One of the larger intersections, Central, barely has signs.
Multiple roads, bus and tram lines converge.
Everybody is careful, as the rules are only painted or suggested, and the feeling of safety by signage is absent.
A sign for everything seems bizarre by now.
Danke schön
I wonder if you're still welcome at City Hall?! LOL
Brilliant!
5:09 This is almost exactly how we do it in Norway. Its usually a no motor vehicles sign with an adittional text below saying either "Gjelder gjennomkjøring" ("Only for through traffic") or "Gjelder ikke kjøring til eiendommene" ("Doesn't apply to driving to the properties"). I've also seen the "combined bike and footpath" sign combined with "Kjøring til eiendommene tillat" ("Driving to the properties allowed") But that's rather uncommon.
I'm pretty sure the red sign with a white bar is only used where it's a single direction road and the traffic will come towards you. This German way of using this sign seems like a dangerous abuse of symbols.
Yeah the usual English language way of doing it would be a no motor vehicles sign with an "Except for Access" plate under it. Does seem a bit confusing Norway not standardising on a single version of the text though not great for international drivers that don't know the local language fully. Seems better having standard versions of the text where possible that would make it easier for an international truck driver coming in with a delivery to learn what to look out for to determine if they can enter to deliver their goods.
@@seraphina985 we also use both Norwegian and English on signs where everyone needs to understand it like at toll road booths etc. But most of the signs with extra text the text is only relevant to locals, tourists aren't residents (or if they rent an Airbnb they probably get instructions to disregard that sign). Another commonly added text to no entry signs is "Gjelder ikke buss i rute" meaning "doesn't apply to busses in regular local service" no tourists is driving a local bus anyway.
@@SteinGauslaaStrindhaug True but does that also exclude delivery drivers? After all remember that delivery drivers come from all over the place certainly there will be deliveries on the roads coming from pretty much everywhere in Europe.
Could it also be said that it's actually dangerous to have so many signs at once, especially if they're close behind another set of signs? Surely there should be a law that the highways authority has to actually justify placing those signs over another set that would require less signs, yet still convey the same message.
Or at least, they could install some signs, warning off people, that are easily distracted, against being distracted by signs!
Seriously, the worst thing at all are roadmarkings on innercity crossroads, obviously designed by art students, who want to follow 1920s Dadaists and express their disgust for common rationality. Have a construction site somewhere nearby, have it be night and rainy, so your car's spotlights reflect from puddles, and you try to find your route through a pattern of yellow and white clingon letters at 50 km per hour, with the car behind you already hugging your brakelights and angrily blowing the horns if you slow down only the slightest bit.
I personally think that is not a big problem with safety.
It is just unnecessary and confusing but since there are so many signs, germans learn to recognize signs in a matter of milliseconds 😉
I travel Europe a lot by car.
Once, I caused mini trafic jam, parking by the sign and trying to understand what it is about.
There's come to a point when roadsigns become a hazard themselves.
And only to discover that there was a "no parking" sign in there too.
Over here in the Netherlands the situation is pretty much identical.
1:00 This is actually the wrong sign as it suggests that this is a one-way street and you can enter at the other side. 4:12 is the only correct one in this instance.
We have a really bad Problem with those many signs near my village. Since the new Part of the Autobahn was opened, there is a sign, which should show, in which direction the Autobahn is running
But it's so close to the crossing street, if you are traveling down from the Autobahn, you are unable to see the traffic, which is coming from the left and on the right, there is a hill, so you can only see ~50 meters down the road
This sign is standing there since March 2019 and there were 19 accidents...
I think that's a bit too "wishy-washy", to be honest: it leaves out the authorized workers and emergency vehicles. In Italy, we'd use something like
Main plate: DIVIETO DI TRANSITO ("No passing") sign
Additional plate: ECCETTO RESIDENTI, AUTORIZZATI, PORTATORI DI HANDICAP, EMERGENZE ("Except for Residents, Authorized, Handicapped people, Law Enforcement and Emergency Vehicles"). The latter three are represented with a stylized Handicap sign, a stylized Police Officer and a Red Cross.
The first sign is explained wrong. It is in fact, a sign for „you are not allowed to drive into this street“. Often it is on the end of one way streets („Einbahnstraße“). Sometimes the sign only counts during some hours (rush hour, during shool, at night time, etc.)
This transport vehicle driving into the street is probably allowed because the time is between 6 and 8 pm.
Error in the video, "Anlieger frei" is everything you need no additional sign for disabled since they are included into "Anlieger".
not if they aren't living there
@@thulyblu5486 No it does not matter. Anlieger means having an issue in the area. You can find the translation of neighbor but that is completly wrong. I dont know who put this wrong translation in the Internet.
However there is similar sign with "Anwohner frei". That one is only for local residents.
@@yourTuBaer but just because you're disabled doesn't mean you have an issue in the area, right?
@@thulyblu5486 Yes but that doesnt matter for this example
@@yourTuBaer So let me summarize: disabled people are included in "Anlieger" because "Anlieger" means having an issue in the area, even though they might not have an issue in the area that actually doesn't matter here. What?!
If it's not a through route to anywhere, why make an exemption for disabled people? I reckon that can go too. Just "Anlieger Frei" should do it.
Disabled people might want to shop in the area and they usually do not go by bike or walk there. ;P
@@kevinwestermann1001 but wouldnt that be covered by the anlieger frei sign?
i love your videos :)
In Aschaffenburg hahah. so cool.
very nice
Oh there are new ones now. I found one when driving the other day that is to highlight a cyclist lane for cyclists and get this "riding 50kmh or faster only". Most of the time when driving every day, the signs are basic and easy and when it gets complicated, its still pretty easy.
There is about 10 million ways to use the word bitte, and as for der die das. Lets sort out how they talk over here before we get on to their road signs lol Ive been here years now and its still confusing, when even my German friends struggle to use German properly when talking, I do not fancy my chances of ever mastering it.
awesome video
Well done rewboss.
Keep in mind though, that "making things overly complicated" is a benchmark for success in some governmental or related institutions. You don't believe me or think I'm just exaggerating? Look up the "Wertbeutel-Verordnung der Deutschen Bundespost".
Civil servants and logic doesnt match!
Iguess that applies everywhere!
So, I sometimes have to drive a lot for work, and this leads to me interacting with a lot of other co-workers who regularly drive.
The theory around the watercooler is that this "forest of signs" is a deliberate measure. Once you get something innevitably wrong you get ticketed. Free money for the local city / township / majors office.
I know, there's a lot of people complaining about "legalized robbery", but listen: You wouldn't believe some of these very official "traps".
I was going through a town, so the speed limit was 50 km/h. Then there's a sign for 30, then one for 30 crossed out again.
Then I spot a 30 sign again, almost completely grown over - literally grown into a tree branch - and a radar trap right behind that. Had my GPS not warned me it was there, I would have gotten ticketed.
And now they're putting up these new radar traps that look like poles or cut down street lamp stumps with 3 black rings around it. Those are high-speed cameras that can photograph in both directions of the road. And because we have so many signs up, plus street lamps these things can be overlooked quite easily.
A money maker.
Plus, confusing signage like in this video - it doesn't matter. When you're in a delivery van, you're basically screwed. You have to deliver your stuff and a "I wasn't sure if I was legally allowed to even enter that street" is not going to be accepted as an excuse. It might even get you fired or written up - because you apparently don't know how your job works.
Plus, the whole delivery schedule is at stake if you skip someone - you. are. going. to. drive. into. that. street.
Because simply everything about your job is skewed in a way that incentivizes you to maybe break the law a little bit just this once? You're not sure, so you're just going to do your job and hope to god that police don't ticket you. Because that comes out of your paycheck if they do.
Plus, you have to make this decision in around 15 seconds - you can't just sit there and decypher 5 signs while you're blocking the road.
The only benefit I can think of for putting this specific sign there is the following: people are more likely to unlawfully enter a "motorvehicles prohibited" area, because with the "Anlieger frei" exemption nobody can really tell if you're allowed to drive on one of those streets. "Wrong way" on the other hand puts you in the danger of a head on encounter with an oncoming car, which is making you look like an idiot. So at least non-locals know to back off from that street when they see that sign.
Ich dachte sofort: genau dafür gibt es doch dass "Anlieger frei" Zusatzschild.
There are some streets in some parts of the UK which have long had "no motor vehicles" signs with an "Except for access" plate (e.g. some in Walton-le-Dale have had such since at least the 1990s). I don't think there is any real enforcement. Maybe the "forest of signs" is easier to enforce than "except for access"?
So sort of "Access only" additional sign in UK?
This is 5 years old. Has the municipality changed the signage there?
Which street is the wrong tagged in OpenStreetMap? The streets around there aren't modified for a while. And no note is added.
Erbsengasse. It shows traffic flowing south towards Wermbachstraße, but traffic along Sandgasse is (correctly) shown as flowing east. That makes it impossible to enter the area.
Der abschließende Vorschlag ist logisch, sinnvoll und ziemlich intelligent. Verkehrsteilnehmer könnten diese Schilder unverzüglich verstehen.
Damit erfüllt der Vorschlag alle Kriterien, NICHT umgesetzt zu werden.
1:00 - that is not correct. The sign means no entry. So in general it in fact indicates a one way street where traffic flows towards the camera. But white signs below signs modify the general meaning in some way. In this case they restrict it to certain periods of day time and exclude bicycle traffic.
Don’t ask me why but I’m really interested in foreign road signs (as in ones that aren’t British) even welsh ones interest me because of the different language but my favourite by far are European road signs!
You're becoming the "things you might not have known" of German laws, rewboss
Its good to be grumpy
"Anlieger Frei" is often disregarded by people, they say "Ich habe das Anliegen, hier rein zu fahren, also bin ich Anlieger und darf das" or stupid things like that. While I like the notion of civil disobedience, this can obviously also produce problems.
Sure, but the rules as they are aren't being obeyed all the time either.
Holger, *I* know that, but I've heard people make this excuse. I know that it is wrong, but not everyone else does.
Da wäre Waldsterben gut ...
1:39 as a British person that incredibly confuses me (the 24 hr clock), it always confuses me when they use it here (I’m 15 years old living in one of the Home Counties by the way) I know we do have it in the UK but it’s always in like train stations and things, even road signs use 12hr clock. And obviously no one in the uk says meet me at 14 o clock but yet they seem to in europe and it’s confusing! question for you: how long did it take to get used to it after moving?
3:42 i suggest the good old "Anlieger frei" sign, the most ambiguous, abused and misinterpreted sign xD
HA, called it
Could the van belong to a local contractor that's part of a national company that registers its' entire fleet in Leipzig?
Points taken, but you for legal reasons in my opinion you can't get rid of the »no entry« sign; you can't exchange it with the »all vehicles forbidden« sign, because it's a one-way-road after all.
On the other hand: Using it for the entrance of a one-way-road is ridiculous. :D
nice
I'd go 1 step further. Why single out disabled people? If someone who has limited mobility isn't there for a genuine reason (resident, visiting, attending an appointment etc) why would they be there in the 1st place?
Isn't "Anlieger Frei" enough on its own?
Probably. I don't know the exact rules, but this is really about the general principle.
Consider it as an unconditional ease e.g. for handycaped tourists.
that's not a bad idea, but at this point you have to consider the costs for deforestation
Great video. And it raised a doubt in my mind.... When you said no need of bicycle sign if you already have motorbike/car signs... Do you mean cycles are allowed to move on streets without marked bike paths? And hence automatically allowed?
Also FYI... Would love to meet an English speaker next time I'm in your town... 😊
Basically, yes: bikes are normally allowed on public roads, and normally not allowed on the footpath. But there may be exceptions which are then posted; in particular, a blue sign with a bicycle on it shows a cycle path which cyclists MUST use.
The red-bordered sign with the car and motorbike means "No motor vehicles": a bike isn't a motor vehicle and so is allowed. A round sign with just the red border and nothing inside it means "No vehicles of any kind", which bans bikes as well (unless they are being pushed).
good solution
But .. That's how the UK do it. No motor vehicles except for access
Thats how basically every place does it
there is a road sign for what exactly they wanted to achieve with this terrible set of signs. just make the road or entire area a no car/motorcycle area with a single [anlieger frei] exception.
the problem with this sign is that it cant be enforced by police. it literally means what it says. it says no one is allowed to use this street unless you have a reason to drive in this road and park your car.
3:25 From what I hear nobody in Bavaria wants a thuringian van in their road at any time.
Leipzig is a city of Saxony
@@fabiank.4705 I moved out of Germany in 1987, it's all the same to me. :)
A German specialty ;)
I know that "Schilderwald" is figurative speech, but at first I thought the video was about signs in the actual forests.
Because that is indeed a thing here in Austria.
Da sieht man oft den Wald vor lauter Schilder nicht ;)
...Badummm-tss ...sorry ^^
Making sign plates is a (local?) Business... 😁
Do you haven't red circle sign with text "tranzit forbidden" in Germany ?(In German language of course).
You can enter there, you can park there and you can leave. But you can't go through without stopping...
I don't think so. It's mostly red circles with "Anlieger frei"
OK.The traffic sign "anlieger frei" probably means basically the same.
No, there's no "no transit" sign in Germany. The "Anlieger frei" sign technically allows e.g. residents to use the street for just driving through (for whatever reason), although in reality, that's probably not a big problem.
Der Schilderwald steht unter Naturschutz.
Why don't you submit your suggestion and see what they say to you and make a video on it
So does it mean you suggested Anlieger frei sign all over Germany?
Going Nukular on those pesky signs? Hurray! Let the war begin!
Those signs should be the "no motorvehicles" sign, instead of the "Wrong way" signs
Great! Same problem in Russia.
takes a brit to improve on german regulamania :D
Warum einfach, wenn's auch kompliziert geht? Why simply if it is also possible awkwardly?
Visitors from other countries are invited to ignore all these signs like reasonable Germans do, too.
Traffic violation fees are ridiculously low in Germany, hence in combination with idiotic signs and very low control density an official demand to give a shit.
You mention self-driving cars. Funnily enough, self-driving cars have a hard time with reliably reading road signs. Especially when dirty or worn out, partly covered, or littered with stickers, automatic image-processing algorithms have much lower detection rates than humans. So while a driving computer may be able to manage a higher quantity of signs, they don't yet have the quality to match the human brain. On top of that, computers lack the contextual awareness necessary to properly understand the meaning of signs or associate them with the proper lane in particularly confusing or complex installations.
hmmm... considering the postal address...
Is someone... pissed?
This is off the subject, but I have asked your opinion in the past about the lack of Google Street View for much of rural Germany. Your reply of an irrational need for privacy makes me curious about how Germans are dealing with recently unfolding knowledge that major tech companies and governmental agencies are and have been surveilling our privacy for some time, and it is all kept and cataloged.
Mmm...looking at the street I get the impression that it is extremely small, and I suspect "transit" might not have been the original problem there, but maybe, just maybe, there is something in the area which is a "drop off point"...we have the same problem in our street, too, not a transit area normally, but there is a school and a kindegarten, and the helicopter parents regularly manage to basically clog the whole street when dropping off their children. Never mind that there is a street parallel to it with proper parking space which is even directly connected to out street through a small footpath. Oh no, they absolutely HAVE to drop of their children directly in front of the door, it is too much to ask a 30 second walk of them.
Anyway, at least our street isn't a one way street and there are alternative routes you can take to leave it. This doesn't seem to be the case there. Though my hazard guess is that the original reason for the "no entry sign" was some sort of drop off point in that area, and then it got expanded over time. In which case a "anlieger frei" sign wouldn't work (since that one would allow a quick drop off), it has to be a "Anwohner frei" sign...in which case you will need pretty much all those original signs with the exception of the time constriction.
In any case, though, before judging those kind of signs, it is pretty helpful to figure out why and how they became a thing in the first place. You need to know the original reason why there was a need for regulation in the first place to figure out the perfect combination of signs.
I did ask why the signs were there. The only answer I got was that it was to reduce the total amount of traffic.
There is a small concert venue in the area, but the street is open at exactly the time people would be arriving for any concert.
That might explain why they open up the street for that time...I guess the small concert venue complained at one point. And I guess a concert hall isn't a drop off area….
Honestly, I doubt that the people you talked to knew either how this specific construct came to be without looking into their files, and why should they bother?
Teslas Song "Signs" comes in mind.
@@holger_p The band still exists.
@@holger_p Huh? There*s no member named Nikola in the Band.
@@holger_p If someone tells you about a song, you really think of an 19th century inventor. Even after you are already told that it's a band?
A very famous band everybody knows?
That's plain stupid.
@@holger_p I already told you it is a band. If you don't know the band (what I can't believe) you could just google but you keep posting annoying comments. And a another one. Get a life.
That sign isn't even wrong, it's fatal. It's saying "entrance prohibited becaus end of a 1 way street" ,so when you drive In you are expecting a car that can come at you, so it could happen that you would exit in the "wrong way" since the sign is saying you are entering the one-way street from behind and there is no sign saying that you need to enter in the other side. And if they had added the one-way sign it would even be more confusing. Your idea can't be misunderstood and is easy to understand. Just the one-way sign should get added
Yes, that's what I used to think the sign means, but it isn't. It just means "Do not enter". Traffic regulations don't say it has to indicate a one-way street at all.
@@rewboss that is really crazy. In Germany were everything is regulated, having 2 signs that mean the same in the basic, but with a different meaning in detail. Ok, it makes sence on a privat/company road showing "DO NOT ENTER, entrance prohibited" to make it more clear than a simple "entrance prohibited"-sign that can be overseen, but on a public road it should stay by signs that attach to the public knowledge (one way road exit/exit only), because misunderstanding will lead to accidents, and in that case that sign really is misleading.
Germany without the road signs would just be as any other ordinary country. ;)
No, we will still have Neo-Nazis, and better Bread than the British
a #LegitimateReason for many #GermanDrivers would be: "I want to drive thru that street" ... #RuleOfThumb: If you going for a simpler solution with a #GermanRoadSignSituation, some drivers will show up, to show you that your simple&"loose" rules do not apply to them, ... "Ich darf das, weil ..."
Das lustige ist, dass die meisten Menschen nicht wirklich wissen, was "Anlieger frei" bedeutet. Das Wort "Anliegen" ist nicht mehr sooo geläufig im Sprachgebrauch. Die meisten interpretieren es als "Anwohner frei".
The question isn't "does *anyone* do that?" it's "do *enough people* do that to create the problem the signs were originally put there to solve?"