Very informative when I was in the USAF during the 1970s I wrote some Apple II software to simulate a Teletype to interface to a NATO Computer. Actually the Apple II replaced the teletype paper tape boot mechanical device. Indeed you obviously have great analysis abilities. Thanks for sharing this video and information. Enjoyed this tremendously ! ! !
I ran teletype for the US Army back in 70-71 when I was stationed in Vietnam. The way we set our timing on the machines was with a tuning fork and the motor had 3 spots on it. You tapped the fork and looked through a couple of lips on the fork at the motor face. There was a clutch on the motor and you set the speed of the motor (timing) by getting the speed so the 3 dots stood still on the face when viewed through the tuning fork. We used 2 different machines, one to cut the tapes and send them, another to print a page copy if one was desired. Our tape machines also printed text on the tape so they could be read without printing out a page copy if, for example, the message was simple operator to operator messages.
Interesting approach. In the late 1980's a company by the name of black box came out with a serial (RS-232) to current loop adaptor but all the communications was done on the PC end. This meant that both 5 and 6 bit baudot would work with the adaptor. I believe they still make some versions of this but again, you would need a communication program that can communicate using the correct protocols and I don't believe they have ever tried using USB.
I've got an old pen plotter I want to put back in service. I need to build the proper serial cable, and then use a Raspberry Pi (I think) to convert DXF files into HPGL, because windows no longer supports HPGL drivers. Or I might just put a Win98 computer together to use in place of the Pi. And then there are ink pens. You can still purchase them, but they are expensive. I need to modify some standard off the shelf ones.
The traditional (English) teletype test phrase was always "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog". Easy to remember, easy to recognize and most important, uses every letter in the alphabet.
My dad used these machines in the 70s, whilst in the military. He said he always preferred the 75 baud machines, because he'd type too fast on the 50 baud and cause the keys to stick
This is standard serial stuff... Just more limited in character set. It's also been used for years as Radio Teletype, used to transmit Wx data and whatever. Very popular in the amateur Radio world at the time as well. The Creed 7 series machines were very common and popular. The baud rate, exactly the same as any other serial protocol. Generally 1 start 5 data and 1.5 stop bits are used (two stop bits are fine as 1.5 is the minimum stop bit length) Nowdays we have nice scopes that you can attach, rather than the strobe or tuning fork widgets, so hang a scope on the output of the teletype, and ensure that you can see the data pulses. Sent RYRYRY's from the keyboard these give you alternating 0's and 1's capture on the scope and measure the mark/space of a bit. Tweak the machine until you get the correct pulse width. As it's a mechanical system once you get the bit length set, everything else will fall into place. Another option is to grab a copy of FLDIGI which can decode most RTTY systems (as well as dozens of other data modes) and allow you to analyse the speeds. You will need to feed in AF tones to FLDIGI, but you can use the switching output of the printer to switch a couple of sig-gens to generate the mark and space tones. Things to remember, the incoming signals were at high voltage normally, +_80V and they acted on some very finely balanced solenoids If you are using standard relays in your test hardware, then they are going to have a very hard life keeping up with switching at that speed Contact bounce will be an issue. Relays have a mechanical life of about 1x10^8 operations, That's about 200K 5 bit characters that's about 20-40 A4 pages (not every character switches every bit) So they are going to wear out pretty quickly. Change to an electronic switch system for reliability. Andy
This video series is my jam... I find it fascinating getting two machines to talk to each other, much less two machines with such a difference in age. The oldest machine I have is a Commodore VIC-20, which I have interfaced to a Raspberry Pi Zero in order to grab RSS news feeds, Twitter tweets, etc. from the web to send them to a terminal program running on the VIC. The VIC's user port is connected to a TTL serial to USB converter which then gets connected to the Pi, leaving the GPIO pins free in case I want to connect other stuff in the future.
I have interfaced a daisy wheel typewriter with a ‘duino and attached it to my TTL computer so it can print the "output display" value on paper or set the card (using a control code) to interpret the values as ASCII and print letters etc. currently it can do letters/numbers/symbols with and without shift, there are a few other symbols that use control (and shift as well I think) but I haven’t wired that up. I have also briefly interfaced with a parallel port dot matrix printer using a PIC based controller (PICAXE) and a shift register.
In ham radio, there are still “heavy metal” categories in RTTY contests. All are mostly run at the original 45.45 baud. There is a 75 baud contest as well. Most are old model 28’s but there’s a model 19 or two out there. It’s still a very popular contest mode, mostly done as AFSK (audio interface) rather than FSK (on-off serial signals) nowadays. The comparison to CW is accurate - at about 60 wpm ! 73, Jamie WB4YDL
In the 1980s I was doing some urban exploration with friends and we got into an old military site and there was a room with ten teletype machines like that. When we looked at the printouts they were dated just a month before. All the information was about a simulated nuclear attack on the UK with bomb sites and estimated mortality rates.
@@MAYERMAKES It was a creepy place. Looked like a fenced yard with a brick shed in it. When we opened the shed which was unlocked there were stairs down to an underground tunnel with lots of side rooms, most with old filing cabinets or army beds. The power was on and we picked up a phone and there was a dial tone. We did go back a few weeks later and the metal door for the brick shed had been welded shut.
I have used the teletype 100 in the 80's to make qso's in rtty. The speed of the machine had to be adjusted with a tuning fork. The 115 - 120v for the receiving coil is important for the mechanical reaction speed. T=5 x L/R. So big R makes a small T reaction time.
@@MAYERMAKES in those days, every Siemens teletype was delivered with a maintenance set including the fork. Fast and easy to check and adjust the motor speed
I used a Teletype as a terminal to write code in the 1960s. It ran at 10cps. I could punch the source as I entered if I wanted (assembly language) and punch out the executable code. Some of our computers had faster paper tape readers. I would have to toggle in a bootstrap loader on the computer panel to load and run the code. We also had punch card capability.
make a standard compatible to general TEXT print driver(I would be prised it still not on the windows 10 ISO), and the you can print from anything the can print modern printer in simple text, (and it a big if, anyone else has made print driver that can convert graphic to text )and then just output that to general TEXT print driver, and get the full steam punk vibe 🙂
@@MAYERMAKES I saw I'm trying to remember what the tape looked like coming out of the TARDIS's computer. I can't find the episode. Be cool to have a continuous paper feed. I think it was printing legible letters single line.
Interestingly, in my you should watch these related videos list, there is one from a couple of years ago by CuriousMarc where they turned a teletype into a Linux terminal. Maybe adapt what they did to yours? th-cam.com/video/2XLZ4Z8LpEE/w-d-xo.html
Why does anyone use relays, ust optical relays. They are cheap, fast and stand 60v 60mA with ease. Relays will die when you use that thin a lot like on Maker Faire. Use optical relays.
Very informative when I was in the USAF during the 1970s I wrote some Apple II software to simulate a Teletype to interface to a NATO Computer. Actually the Apple II replaced the teletype paper tape boot mechanical device. Indeed you obviously have great analysis abilities. Thanks for sharing this video and information. Enjoyed this tremendously ! ! !
thank you very much!
I love how you take the necessary time to do the project properly, you don't impose yourself an arbitrary one week deadline or whatever.
I ran teletype for the US Army back in 70-71 when I was stationed in Vietnam. The way we set our timing on the machines was with a tuning fork and the motor had 3 spots on it. You tapped the fork and looked through a couple of lips on the fork at the motor face. There was a clutch on the motor and you set the speed of the motor (timing) by getting the speed so the 3 dots stood still on the face when viewed through the tuning fork. We used 2 different machines, one to cut the tapes and send them, another to print a page copy if one was desired. Our tape machines also printed text on the tape so they could be read without printing out a page copy if, for example, the message was simple operator to operator messages.
Interesting approach. In the late 1980's a company by the name of black box came out with a serial (RS-232) to current loop adaptor but all the communications was done on the PC end. This meant that both 5 and 6 bit baudot would work with the adaptor. I believe they still make some versions of this but again, you would need a communication program that can communicate using the correct protocols and I don't believe they have ever tried using USB.
somebody has to try first I guess
I love it when old technology gets put back into use.
Also: Obligatory 'ink cartridge prices being so bad it's cheaper to refurbish a teletype' joke.
boy do iIhave the video for you coming....
I've got an old pen plotter I want to put back in service. I need to build the proper serial cable, and then use a Raspberry Pi (I think) to convert DXF files into HPGL, because windows no longer supports HPGL drivers. Or I might just put a Win98 computer together to use in place of the Pi. And then there are ink pens. You can still purchase them, but they are expensive. I need to modify some standard off the shelf ones.
@@cheeto4493 a very rewarding project! to be future proof I'd prefer the Rpi and translation method.
The traditional (English) teletype test phrase was always "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog".
Easy to remember, easy to recognize and most important, uses every letter in the alphabet.
True, I should make some test pi at terns once the whole set is decoded
My dad used these machines in the 70s, whilst in the military. He said he always preferred the 75 baud machines, because he'd type too fast on the 50 baud and cause the keys to stick
It feels so weird typing fast on it, sometimes you need to wait but it also kinda pushes you to go faster..
This is standard serial stuff... Just more limited in character set. It's also been used for years as Radio Teletype, used to transmit Wx data and whatever. Very popular in the amateur Radio world at the time as well. The Creed 7 series machines were very common and popular.
The baud rate, exactly the same as any other serial protocol. Generally 1 start 5 data and 1.5 stop bits are used (two stop bits are fine as 1.5 is the minimum stop bit length)
Nowdays we have nice scopes that you can attach, rather than the strobe or tuning fork widgets, so hang a scope on the output of the teletype, and ensure that you can see the data pulses. Sent RYRYRY's from the keyboard these give you alternating 0's and 1's capture on the scope and measure the mark/space of a bit. Tweak the machine until you get the correct pulse width. As it's a mechanical system once you get the bit length set, everything else will fall into place.
Another option is to grab a copy of FLDIGI which can decode most RTTY systems (as well as dozens of other data modes) and allow you to analyse the speeds. You will need to feed in AF tones to FLDIGI, but you can use the switching output of the printer to switch a couple of sig-gens to generate the mark and space tones.
Things to remember, the incoming signals were at high voltage normally, +_80V and they acted on some very finely balanced solenoids
If you are using standard relays in your test hardware, then they are going to have a very hard life keeping up with switching at that speed Contact bounce will be an issue.
Relays have a mechanical life of about 1x10^8 operations, That's about 200K 5 bit characters that's about 20-40 A4 pages (not every character switches every bit) So they are going to wear out pretty quickly. Change to an electronic switch system for reliability.
Andy
This video series is my jam... I find it fascinating getting two machines to talk to each other, much less two machines with such a difference in age. The oldest machine I have is a Commodore VIC-20, which I have interfaced to a Raspberry Pi Zero in order to grab RSS news feeds, Twitter tweets, etc. from the web to send them to a terminal program running on the VIC. The VIC's user port is connected to a TTL serial to USB converter which then gets connected to the Pi, leaving the GPIO pins free in case I want to connect other stuff in the future.
Thats a great project! would be awesome to see how it work. you could post about it on our community site linked in the description!
I have interfaced a daisy wheel typewriter with a ‘duino and attached it to my TTL computer so it can print the "output display" value on paper or set the card (using a control code) to interpret the values as ASCII and print letters etc. currently it can do letters/numbers/symbols with and without shift, there are a few other symbols that use control (and shift as well I think) but I haven’t wired that up.
I have also briefly interfaced with a parallel port dot matrix printer using a PIC based controller (PICAXE) and a shift register.
awesome project! there is something similar coming up on the channel. I be happy if you share your projects on our community page!
shoutout to my screwdriver that kept the power switch engaged during testing.
excellent work. with the popularity of vintage electronics there is likely a market for retrofitting these old machines.
In ham radio, there are still “heavy metal” categories in RTTY contests. All are mostly run at the original 45.45 baud. There is a 75 baud contest as well. Most are old model 28’s but there’s a model 19 or two out there. It’s still a very popular contest mode, mostly done as AFSK (audio interface) rather than FSK (on-off serial signals) nowadays. The comparison to CW is accurate - at about 60 wpm ! 73, Jamie WB4YDL
Interesting!
In the 1980s I was doing some urban exploration with friends and we got into an old military site and there was a room with ten teletype machines like that. When we looked at the printouts they were dated just a month before. All the information was about a simulated nuclear attack on the UK with bomb sites and estimated mortality rates.
that is wild,.
@@MAYERMAKES It was a creepy place. Looked like a fenced yard with a brick shed in it. When we opened the shed which was unlocked there were stairs down to an underground tunnel with lots of side rooms, most with old filing cabinets or army beds.
The power was on and we picked up a phone and there was a dial tone. We did go back a few weeks later and the metal door for the brick shed had been welded shut.
Waiting for the Version 2.0 - great project.
thanks!"
I have used the teletype 100 in the 80's to make qso's in rtty. The speed of the machine had to be adjusted with a tuning fork. The 115 - 120v for the receiving coil is important for the mechanical reaction speed. T=5 x L/R. So big R makes a small T reaction time.
glad I did not have to resort to a tuning fork! thanks for the insight!
@@MAYERMAKES in those days, every Siemens teletype was delivered with a maintenance set including the fork. Fast and easy to check and adjust the motor speed
A strobe should be quite easy to make using a bunch of high power LEDs...
Yep that could be a future project..
Nice work sir!
thank you!
Eastern Standard Time gang 😎
Checking in 🙋🏻♂️
EDIT: although it's Eastern DAYLIGHT time for me...
@@adventureoflinkmk2 oh no
@@joeybuddy96 ohhhhh yes.
whoop whoop
@@MAYERMAKES w00t
Ain't done that in forever
Glad you stuck to it. 👍
cant let this beast sleep anymore!
I used a Teletype as a terminal to write code in the 1960s. It ran at 10cps. I could punch the source as I entered if I wanted (assembly language) and punch out the executable code. Some of our computers had faster paper tape readers. I would have to toggle in a bootstrap loader on the computer panel to load and run the code. We also had punch card capability.
typing in assembly might indeed be an option to simplify the data transfer.
@@MAYERMAKES It beat filling out coding sheets. The turnaround time was terrible - a couple of days. I've used fan fold and rolls of tape.
make a standard compatible to general TEXT print driver(I would be prised it still not on the windows 10 ISO), and the you can print from anything the can print modern printer in simple text, (and it a big if, anyone else has made print driver that can convert graphic to text )and then just output that to general TEXT print driver, and get the full steam punk vibe 🙂
Oho some project ideas here...
All I can think of is to add a controller made of valves.....Dont you have some valves spare?
Tons but I'm not that insane.
Years ago I worked and modified them to use a acoustic modem for deaf people to use.
I have one of those machines...a device that translates typing into beeps and o nthe other side a deaf perso ngets that translated back into writing.
Now we need a telegraph printer machine and an easy way to produce the ribbon for it.
Like in old Dr Who episodes.
the machine has a punch for the tape and a reader included. should be doable to attach a dotmatrix printer or similar to it.
@@MAYERMAKES I saw I'm trying to remember what the tape looked like coming out of the TARDIS's computer. I can't find the episode. Be cool to have a continuous paper feed. I think it was printing legible letters single line.
Oh … well now it makes perfect sense …
everything is coming together...
What are your ideas for connecting old tech to the new digital world?
5 level Baudot is actually Murray Code.
CuriousMarc did this and had it running as a Linux terminal...
I know, quite adifferent machine, but with similar challenges.
Huh, I thought it was 80 years old
Me no good in maths
Interestingly, in my you should watch these related videos list, there is one from a couple of years ago by CuriousMarc where they turned a teletype into a Linux terminal. Maybe adapt what they did to yours?
th-cam.com/video/2XLZ4Z8LpEE/w-d-xo.html
Why does anyone use relays, ust optical relays. They are cheap, fast and stand 60v 60mA with ease. Relays will die when you use that thin a lot like on Maker Faire. Use optical relays.