I believe the faster 1:48 twist barrel gave the roundball a more aggressive spin on the ball, which helped it hang with the long rife. However keep the same powder charge that you used, and do a accuracy test between both rifles. Guarentee the long rifle comes out on top. Thank you fer another great video!
I switched to LH about 2 years ago out of frustration of NOT being able to hit the targets RH. Now that I'm actually having more success, I'm sticking with LH shooting owning all RH guns..!! Thanks for watching.
I'm marveling at you ability to hit the same holes or the immediate vicinity while shooting at wood, but missing at larger target areas repeatedly (from other videos). How you do dat?
Wow they both had way more power than I originally assumed. I didn't think either one would penetrate more than two of those boards. It's OK because I've been wrong before and that certainly won't be the last time either. 😆 As always thanks for sharing the fun videos and blessings to you and your entire family Mark!👍😁
Ok Mark you talked me into it . I'm packed up 4 rifles ,1 pistol off to the range. p.s. I'm using Swiss 2 f the flintlock 3f schuetzen and 4f pan powder. That's for your sponsors. 😂.God bless Bruce
Do we call you Mark Oakley? Good shooting Mark, I figured the long barrel would create more muzzle pressure. Makes me want to get my renegade out (it's a flinter). God bless hope tp see you at the Hawken classic in may. Bruce
From what I've observed over the years shooting both, there's not much difference in power between my Traditions .50 Kentucky Rifle with its 35 inch barrel compared to my Traditions Tennessee .50 with its 24 inch barrel. Both are 1/66 twist and I use 60 grains of powder in both and the same patch thickness and .490 ball. That's one thing Mark, is there a difference in the twist rate between the two guns you tested? It might not make a difference, but then again, who knows for sure?
Am I wrong or did the short barrel follow shot from the long barrel and go through the same hole as the long barrel. That would be less resistance for the short barrel. I call for a retest. Good video and entertaining. Thanks for sharing.
Fun video. 😁 It would be interesting to repeat the test, but instead of using the same load, stay the same distance and increase the powder charge in 5 or 10 grain increments. Eventually, you will reach the point of diminishing returns. When the amount of powder won't burn completely, at that point, the longer barrel should perform better because of a more complete burn.
Great video i love your enthusiasm!! I wonder if on heavier charges the longer barrel may give more advantage? No matter as 70 grains is adequate. As a small aside thanks for adding that Jesus loves us, its good to hear even though we know!
I've been asked to try that. I've never shot anything but round balls, so, I need to research to see what is needed to try for another experiment. Thanks my friend.
That’s interesting! My favorite is still the magazine penetrating experiments! And the 70 grn. Of 3 f. Powder is not a light charge. Probably equal to about 80 grn. Of 2 f. Respectable ! Thanks you’re always interesting ! Blessings ! 👍😃
@@blackpowdermaniacshooter you could try the bullet type projectiles with the short barrel...No excuses makes a variety of weights for the 45 that would shoot well in the 48 twist short barrel. (they shoot great in my 48 twist barrels & you need no patch to load, though over powder wad is needed., it would be interesting penetration test with the heavier lead projectiles vs the round ball...
Read somewhere from some guru that after so many inches there's no advantage to barrel length. Myth grew from early days that trade muskets had short barrels so settlers and troops had range advantage over 1st Nations.
There's probably less difference in muzzle velocity in long vs. short barrels in black powder guns than there is in modern smokeless powder guns because of the lower pressure of the black powder. Personally, I'd go with the lighter weight of a shorter barrel. It looked like it was a chore to hold up that longer gun.
I wouldnt imagine it'd be too big a difference. Most modern cap and ball rifles are designed to fire fast burnin powders of 100 grains safely and efficiently. So a 24" or 32" barrel should be plenty long enough to burn up most all the propellant behind it and should give you pretty similar results in terms of "power." Sure, more barrel may slow the ball down a bit, but is it enough to matter? Distance and accuracy comes more into question when comparing between barrel lengths. Now, if you switched to a slower burning powder, that longer barrel would definitely have the upper hand, especially if you upped it to 100 grains. Quicker burning or finer powers may have a bigger advantage in shorter Hawkins style rifles. Caliber probably plays a role in that too. Itd make sense to use coarser grains in a .70 cal over a .32 cal. That's all just my guesstimation though. Great video and a big howdy to ya from Wolfe County.
Once you burn all the powder extra barrel length starts to work against you. For best results the barrel length and the projectile components and powder should be regulated to provide the maximum velocity and accuracy. If you change any of these factors you will have to start all over.
Would be interesting to test long vs. short with the same ignition system type. It could have been how much pressure is lost out the touch hole vs through the cap nipple. Cool test al the same. Perhaps back in 1700's powder quality was such that a longer barrel burned more of the charge but I"m somewhat skeptical about that old claim too. I think it had more to do with style and tradition. As more and more families started moving west, a short barrel gun takes up less room and is easier to transport in the wagon along with all the other household goods. New tradition formed and style changed. Long guns fell from favor as shorter guns became dominant. Just my theory on the topic.
I would LOVE to try that with the same ignition. Unfortunately, I cannot do that. I don't have matching ignition systems that will work. Thanks for watching my friend...
@@blackpowdermaniacshooter hmm. Well, I have several Longrifles but only one flintlock with a shorter barrel. It is a 54 cal smooth bore with a 24” barrel. But comparing a smoothie to a rifle wouldn’t be the same either. I can ask around and see if anyone I know has a 50 percussion Longrifles or a 50 flintlock in short barrel they would let me borrow for a couple days. I can’t think of one right off but will look. I’d be happy to help your endeavor if I can.
@@JeffandLeslie If you find one....I can go to Friendship sometime & make video while there & burn a little powder with you too...that would be a cool afternoon...
Bouncing rods against round balls is extra work that's unnecessary. Simply push it till stops and shoot. That's the easiest way. Thanks for watching...
It’s logical to think that the same caliber/load combinations would produce similar results unless perhaps the barrel was a lot shorter, say like a pistol? Possibly next weeks video……
In conversation recently with friends, the subject of shorter barrels versus longer barrels came up and someone suggested that a longer barrelled gun would allow for more complete combustion of the powder charge and therefore hitting harder ..... Thanks for disproving that theory !! Actually the comment arose from me recounting an explanation I'd heard about the reason why the barrels of American Long Rifles are so long ....... It was so they could be reload whilst sat on a horse, it was easier to rest the butt of the rifle on the ground and reload than dismount and remount ..... I don't know true it is ...... but it sort of makes sense !!
Hmmm, that makes some sense loading from a horse. I bet they made them longer believing accuracy would prevail....or...the gun would at least make an awesome billy club!
that didn't "disprove" anything.. If a chrongraph test had been done, this would show if there is a difference.... Most chrono testing results in longer barrels having more velocity period. (up to a certain length) if your interested, you can find data where they start with very long barrels & cut em off an inch at a time testing which shows this.
It's a bit frustrating for hearing some ignorant myths about flintlock guns not able to penetrate thick wooden shields or simple wooden siege shield. Now this video should prove that people can still get hurt hiding behind wooden shields.
Actually, there's historical evidence of this. In 1609 at Ticonderoga, NY. The Iroquois, in particular the Mohawk were fighting the Huron. At that time, the Mohawk had wooden armor, they wore it on their bodies, had shields and even wooden helmets that they had made. Samuel de Champlain aligned with the Huron/Wyandot and with just three matchlock muskets, killed several Mohawk, including a couple of their war chiefs. The armor was effective on bows but useless against those muskets. The Mohawk abandoned their wooden armor after that and went south to trade for guns with the Dutch and then later the English and completely changed the way they fought battles from then on.
@@Bayan1905 Some Chinese claim that the Manchurian use some sort of compound siege shield (made of wood, sheet metal, sand, and mud) to stop musket fire or 3 pounders. And I am not sure it could work. Simple wooden shield, on the other hand, can't prevent any bullet at all, which I am sure.
its nice that we are going to have better weather finally
Amen brother.....its been a while since I've been out shooting too..!!
As always you made my sunday.
A sunday without your whacky video is like a monday morning after the alarmclock rings😂
Aaaagh, thank you for those kind words....
It’s interesting how the round ball reacts to oak boards . But in the end , I wouldn’t want to be on the other end of a round all ! GOD Bless !
Me either my friend..Those rascals are devastating!
Spring has sprung!
It is ABOUT time...!! This rain & cold is wearing me out.
I believe the faster 1:48 twist barrel gave the roundball a more aggressive spin on the ball, which helped it hang with the long rife. However keep the same powder charge that you used, and do a accuracy test between both rifles. Guarentee the long rifle comes out on top. Thank you fer another great video!
Maybe sometime I'll try that. Accuracy almost 100% of the time escapes me my friend...LOL Thanks for watching...
I love your videos!! I never noticed you shooting left handed before.
I switched to LH about 2 years ago out of frustration of NOT being able to hit the targets RH. Now that I'm actually having more success, I'm sticking with LH shooting owning all RH guns..!! Thanks for watching.
Greetings from Ireland. That's a really good use for old lumber.
Thanks..I couldn't agree more!
I'm marveling at you ability to hit the same holes or the immediate vicinity while shooting at wood, but missing at larger target areas repeatedly (from other videos). How you do dat?
Sometimes...I amaze myself..!!??!! Being half blind doesn't help my shooting abilities at all! Thanks for watching.
Great video again mark
Thanks my friend......
Good morning my friend from Syracuse NY thank you for sharing your adventures in muzzleloader shooting
Thanks my friend.....it is a silly passion I have putting these together.
Like you from Owego New York
@@richsadowski312 Thanks for watching my friend....more fun videos coming weekly...
My friend I am from Syracuse NY
Love the video Mark thank you for sharing 👍👌🔥
Thanks my friend.....I'm always looking for strange stuff to shoot!
@@blackpowdermaniacshooter you are very welcome
I enjoyed the video but the lock time on both rifles really impressed me. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks....I'm fortunate to have great working factory guns.
That was an interesting test! Thanks. You're shooting nice round groups too.
When I switched to LH shooting, things finally start improving!
Wow they both had way more power than I originally assumed. I didn't think either one would penetrate more than two of those boards. It's OK because I've been wrong before and that certainly won't be the last time either. 😆 As always thanks for sharing the fun videos and blessings to you and your entire family Mark!👍😁
Thanks for watching......I have more weird target shooting coming soon.
Thanks for sharing this. Shooting through a chronograph would be interesting
I'm going to try that again soon with a chrono thingy.....
I'm going to try that again soon with a chrono thingy.....
Interesting results. Awesome video Mark. God Bless brother
Thanks for watching.....and...God Bless. .
@@blackpowdermaniacshooter you are very welcome!
Ok Mark you talked me into it . I'm packed up 4 rifles ,1 pistol off to the range. p.s. I'm using Swiss 2 f the flintlock 3f schuetzen and 4f pan powder. That's for your sponsors. 😂.God bless Bruce
You'll love that powder! Its clean burning reliable powder and the best part is.....it is available.
You'll love that powder! Its clean burning reliable powder and the best part is.....it is available.
Keep up the good work Mark. I wonder if that 600 grain ball outa that Trade rifle would have gone through 4. Thanks for the video
If I can find some more ol' 2 X 12's.....I'll definitely try that!
Do we call you Mark Oakley? Good shooting Mark, I figured the long barrel would create more muzzle pressure. Makes me want to get my renegade out (it's a flinter). God bless hope tp see you at the Hawken classic in may. Bruce
What's holding you back??? Get that rascal out & burn some powder!! LOL Thanks for watching...
From what I've observed over the years shooting both, there's not much difference in power between my Traditions .50 Kentucky Rifle with its 35 inch barrel compared to my Traditions Tennessee .50 with its 24 inch barrel. Both are 1/66 twist and I use 60 grains of powder in both and the same patch thickness and .490 ball. That's one thing Mark, is there a difference in the twist rate between the two guns you tested? It might not make a difference, but then again, who knows for sure?
The Traditions has a 1 X 48 twist while the long gun has a 1 X 66 twist. It may have made a difference. I don't know.
Am I wrong or did the short barrel follow shot from the long barrel and go through the same hole as the long barrel. That would be less resistance for the short barrel. I call for a retest. Good video and entertaining. Thanks for sharing.
Yes..I believe it did go thru the same hole. That's a rarity for to do that....and...I even had my eyes open! LOL Thanks for watching...
The answer surprised me, Mark, I expected more penetration from the long barrel. Thank you for the answer.
I was surprised too...!!
I was surprised too...!!
Fun video. 😁
It would be interesting to repeat the test, but instead of using the same load, stay the same distance and increase the powder charge in 5 or 10 grain increments.
Eventually, you will reach the point of diminishing returns.
When the amount of powder won't burn completely, at that point, the longer barrel should perform better because of a more complete burn.
I may try that sometime, thanks for the suggestion.
Thanks for sharing good job !!!
Thank you...more fun coming next Sunday.
👍nice job!
Thanks for watching..
thank you for another great vidio sir very interesting thoughts on this speed quiestion
Thanks for watching my friend......
Great test 👍🙏✝️
Thanks for watching..
That’s was FUN!
Thanks....I love these type videos!
Great video i love your enthusiasm!! I wonder if on heavier charges the longer barrel may give more advantage? No matter as 70 grains is adequate. As a small aside thanks for adding that Jesus loves us, its good to hear even though we know!
Amen brother......I've been reminding folks about Jesus for 2+ years now. Thanks for watching.
Can you try the same kind of experiment to see if mini-balls or maxi-balls punch through further ????😮😮😮😮😮😮
I've been asked to try that. I've never shot anything but round balls, so, I need to research to see what is needed to try for another experiment. Thanks my friend.
That’s interesting! My favorite is still the magazine penetrating experiments! And the 70 grn. Of 3 f. Powder is not a light charge. Probably equal to about 80 grn. Of 2 f. Respectable ! Thanks you’re always interesting ! Blessings ! 👍😃
Thanks.....I REALLY love putting these type together!
What was the rate of twist on each barrel?
The long rifle has a 1 X 60 twist. The Traditions has a 1 X 48 twist. Thanks for watching.
Good morning Mark. I wonder how maxi ball or maxi hunter would fare.
I'm not sure...I've never shot anything but round balls.
@@blackpowdermaniacshooter you could try the bullet type projectiles with the short barrel...No excuses makes a variety of weights for the 45 that would shoot well in the 48 twist short barrel. (they shoot great in my 48 twist barrels & you need no patch to load, though over powder wad is needed., it would be interesting penetration test with the heavier lead projectiles vs the round ball...
@@kirkethridge2500 I've had several asked to try that. I've never shot anything but round balls, so, this will be fun experience to try...
about even wow didnt see that one coming
Me either when I was shooting it!
Read somewhere from some guru that after so many inches there's no advantage to barrel length. Myth grew from early days that trade muskets had short barrels so settlers and troops had range advantage over 1st Nations.
I prefer short barrels....they are easier to load and for me to hit something. Thanks for watching..
What does this prove? It proves that blasting things on a warm sunny day can be fun.
Absolutely 110% right!
There's probably less difference in muzzle velocity in long vs. short barrels in black powder guns than there is in modern smokeless powder guns because of the lower pressure of the black powder. Personally, I'd go with the lighter weight of a shorter barrel. It looked like it was a chore to hold up that longer gun.
It is a chore to hold up the longer gun. I'm with you...the shorter barrel is much easier to handle.
interesting, I thought there would be more differences, the shorter barrel is more pleasant, better for cleaning, greetings from Brazil !
Amen...those short barrel guns are easier to maintain!
I wouldnt imagine it'd be too big a difference. Most modern cap and ball rifles are designed to fire fast burnin powders of 100 grains safely and efficiently. So a 24" or 32" barrel should be plenty long enough to burn up most all the propellant behind it and should give you pretty similar results in terms of "power." Sure, more barrel may slow the ball down a bit, but is it enough to matter? Distance and accuracy comes more into question when comparing between barrel lengths. Now, if you switched to a slower burning powder, that longer barrel would definitely have the upper hand, especially if you upped it to 100 grains. Quicker burning or finer powers may have a bigger advantage in shorter Hawkins style rifles. Caliber probably plays a role in that too. Itd make sense to use coarser grains in a .70 cal over a .32 cal. That's all just my guesstimation though. Great video and a big howdy to ya from Wolfe County.
I like your thinking and agree totally......thanks for watching..
Once you burn all the powder extra barrel length starts to work against you. For best results the barrel length and the projectile components and powder should be regulated to provide the maximum velocity and accuracy. If you change any of these factors you will have to start all over.
Yep....I also can hit targets better with shorter barrel guns...Thanks for watching.
Those round balls do some damage don’t they?😅
Amen brother...!! I would NOT want to get hit by one of them..!!
Would be interesting to test long vs. short with the same ignition system type. It could have been how much pressure is lost out the touch hole vs through the cap nipple. Cool test al the same. Perhaps back in 1700's powder quality was such that a longer barrel burned more of the charge but I"m somewhat skeptical about that old claim too. I think it had more to do with style and tradition. As more and more families started moving west, a short barrel gun takes up less room and is easier to transport in the wagon along with all the other household goods. New tradition formed and style changed. Long guns fell from favor as shorter guns became dominant. Just my theory on the topic.
I would LOVE to try that with the same ignition. Unfortunately, I cannot do that. I don't have matching ignition systems that will work. Thanks for watching my friend...
@@blackpowdermaniacshooter hmm. Well, I have several Longrifles but only one flintlock with a shorter barrel. It is a 54 cal smooth bore with a 24” barrel. But comparing a smoothie to a rifle wouldn’t be the same either. I can ask around and see if anyone I know has a 50 percussion Longrifles or a 50 flintlock in short barrel they would let me borrow for a couple days. I can’t think of one right off but will look. I’d be happy to help your endeavor if I can.
@@JeffandLeslie If you find one....I can go to Friendship sometime & make video while there & burn a little powder with you too...that would be a cool afternoon...
@@blackpowdermaniacshooter shoot me an email. Next couple months are kind of crazy but we can find a day for sure. I agree, it would be a lot of fun
How many feel it is bad to bounce the ram rod on the ball when seating .i have herd both sides
Bouncing rods against round balls is extra work that's unnecessary. Simply push it till stops and shoot. That's the easiest way. Thanks for watching...
@@blackpowdermaniacshooter yes i knew this.i wondered why it was done in a video
@@timsmith9169 Hmmm, I'm not sure. I didn't notice this till you pointed it out. When I go back next summer, I'll watch a little closer...!!
@@blackpowdermaniacshooter awesome a had a friend tell me it is bad to do
@@timsmith9169 He is right. It is unnecessary.
Smoothbore or choke
Smoothbore - 62 caliber. Thanks for watching.
If you would use 2 f you see a difference
If I can find some more ol' 2 X 12 boards, I'll try 2F next time.
It’s logical to think that the same caliber/load combinations would produce similar results unless perhaps the barrel was a lot shorter, say like a pistol?
Possibly next weeks video……
Hmmm, now that is a cool thought! I'll probably try that! Thanks for watching....
In conversation recently with friends, the subject of shorter barrels versus longer barrels came up and someone suggested that a longer barrelled gun would allow for more complete combustion of the powder charge and therefore hitting harder ..... Thanks for disproving that theory !!
Actually the comment arose from me recounting an explanation I'd heard about the reason why the barrels of American Long Rifles are so long ....... It was so they could be reload whilst sat on a horse, it was easier to rest the butt of the rifle on the ground and reload than dismount and remount .....
I don't know true it is ...... but it sort of makes sense !!
Some of the barrel lengths was for sight radius
Hmmm, that makes some sense loading from a horse. I bet they made them longer believing accuracy would prevail....or...the gun would at least make an awesome billy club!
that didn't "disprove" anything.. If a chrongraph test had been done, this would show if there is a difference.... Most chrono testing results in longer barrels having more velocity period. (up to a certain length) if your interested, you can find data where they start with very long barrels & cut em off an inch at a time testing which shows this.
@@kirkethridge2500 I have a friend that owns one of those chrono thingys...I'll try to catch up with him soon & repeat this one...
@Nick-wn1xw Sadly my friend, I don't consume "Adult beverages"......Never have, never will.
It's a bit frustrating for hearing some ignorant myths about flintlock guns not able to penetrate thick wooden shields or simple wooden siege shield. Now this video should prove that people can still get hurt hiding behind wooden shields.
Actually, there's historical evidence of this. In 1609 at Ticonderoga, NY. The Iroquois, in particular the Mohawk were fighting the Huron. At that time, the Mohawk had wooden armor, they wore it on their bodies, had shields and even wooden helmets that they had made. Samuel de Champlain aligned with the Huron/Wyandot and with just three matchlock muskets, killed several Mohawk, including a couple of their war chiefs. The armor was effective on bows but useless against those muskets. The Mohawk abandoned their wooden armor after that and went south to trade for guns with the Dutch and then later the English and completely changed the way they fought battles from then on.
@@Bayan1905 Some Chinese claim that the Manchurian use some sort of compound siege shield (made of wood, sheet metal, sand, and mud) to stop musket fire or 3 pounders. And I am not sure it could work.
Simple wooden shield, on the other hand, can't prevent any bullet at all, which I am sure.
I'm with you my friend..I'm not betting my life using wooden a shield for defense!