British EM-2: The Best Cold War Battle Rifle that Never Was
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ค. 2017
- Armament Research Services (ARES) is a specialist technical intelligence consultancy, offering expertise and analysis to a range of government and non-government entities in the arms and munitions field. For detailed photos of the guns in this video, don't miss the ARES companion blog post:
armamentresearch.com/british-j...
The EM-2 was the rifle that the British pushed for NATO trials in 1950. It was a rifle well ahead of its time in several areas - as a select-fire bullpup rifle, it was intended to replace both the infantry rifle and the submachine gun. Its .280 caliber cartridge was designed with combat ranges of 600 yards and less, acknowledging the reality that engagements beyond even 300 yards were extremely rare, and not important enough to base rifle design on. It was also designed to use primarily optical sights, long before this concept would be embraced elsewhere. Unfortunately, the potential of the EM-2 was lost to the political decision that compatibility with American ordnance choices was a more significant benefit than an improved infantry rifle.
Mechanically, the EM-2 is heavily based on the German G43 flapper-locking system. It uses a long stroke gas piston in place of the G43's short stroke one, though. To help account for the slower handling of a bullpup configuration, the EM-2 would both lock open when its magazine was empty and also automatically close the bolt and chamber a round when a fresh magazine was inserted. The safety was much like that of the M1 Garand, and the selector lever was of the push-through type like on the German Sturmgewehr.
The optic on the EM-2 is quite tiny, and offers no magnification. Its purpose is to reduce the two-element sight picture of traditional iron sights to a single plane that can be more quickly and easily placed on the target.
In total, only 55 EM-2 rifles were manufactured, including the paratrooper model in this video and a number of 7.62mm NATO examples made as a last ditch effort to remain competitive in NATO trials. Where most failed prototype rifles were rejected for very legitimate technical shortcomings, the EM-2 is (I believe) a prime example of an outstanding weapon that fell victim to politics unrelated to its actually qualities.
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Cold war: *Drops EM2*
Algorithm: Ya this'll work out nicely
The timing tho
I woke up after leveling the gun yesterday, and youtube said "so i heard you like this EM2 rifle or whatever it is, anyway here's two 4 year old videos about the gun"
Lol
JGOD but Real Life
Lol true
Coming here to see how accurate treyarch got this rifle
The ads is slow
Pretty accurate
Surprisingly accurate considering how often they drop the ball on these things
@@ivoryking509 it’s not if you use the wrong attachments
Same
Class setup:
Agency suppresor, task force barrel, field agent, 40 rnd mag, 3x scope
Bruh are you talking about bocw
@@cassettestape I think he refers to Warzone, the Task Force barrel reduces both vertical and horizontal recoil, and the Agency suppressor gives you vertical recoil control at the cost of a reduction to your effective damage range. Both things happen on CW.
On Warzone you receive bullet velocity, recoil control and damage range with only those two attachments!
@@angelomarmejiaespinosa2075 bruh i know what he's talking about, i just find it funny that this video is like 4 years old and the comment was a couple hours ago
@@cassettestape Its getting alot of traction from BOCW i think
@@cassettestape actually it appeared on my recommendations today... Two days after the new season lol
Ah yes as soon as the EM-2 comes out in call of duty cold war season 5 the youtube algorithm wants to show itself
Title of the video is very true as well
@@artifex_gm2653 this gun is literally a 3 shot across the map
@@TheRageLivesOn ground loot em2 is ass with the recoil, might be good when leveled tho
@@trfpvVT oh i meant in cold war multiplayer i dont play warzone
I think cause we keep searching up the em2 on the search bar which tells the algroythim to put more videos about the gun
Can you imagine being a soldier turning in your bolt action and being handed one of these 😮. Mind boggling.
Yeah that's a crazy thought.
Stripping them is a bit of a handful, slinky springs😉
Yeah. I'm willing to bet they tried their hardest to adapt. But very rare to be that good with both sides. Bet when it comes to life or death these fuckers adapted tho.
I think about skateboarding. You can be a damn good skater but if you can't skate switch just as good as regular good luck getting any sponsors and turning pro. So with enough practice anyone can get good using the non dominant side. And when potential death is involved I bet those lefties got damn good at not dying. Or they were just designated strictly to suppress the enemy.
Kind of like handing in your nagant or other type and being handed an AK47.
@@ABrit-bt6ce That will be the 80s then
"this rifle was only designed to be fired from the right shoulder."
you mean the british designed it to fire from the properly issued british shoulder
so were the early muskets
The standard issue Mk1 shoulder, usually issued with the Mk1 eyeball, the best optical sight known to man.
The dominant eye is more important than the shoulder, but testing for *that* is way beyond the grasp of Army testers, and in any case we're not talking about selecting snipers. To quote Spike Milligan, recounting a tale from his call-up for WW2 "Left-handed are you? Well, we can't have a gun specially made for you. You'll just have to be right-handed for the duration"
Im left handed and i shoot right handed, im right eye dominant.
Of course. All British semi-auto, and full-auto firearms have been designed to serve a dual purpose. They can operate as a conventional firearm when fired from the right shoulder and they also operate to allow cosmetic facial reconstruction when fired from the left shoulder.
Imagine solving a problem with magazines unintentionally dropping from the magwell, then 50 years or so deploying out your troops with a rifle having the same exact issue.
I think it's interesting that ever time theres a new, obscure Cold War weapon, the Forgotten Weapons video for it shows up.
Because millions call of dudy players are searching for it on here.... not interesting at all haha
@@billlee1724 maybe that itself is interesting
Thanks dude
for me it more came up after days of watching random videos of his and the EM2 being brought up a fair amount, before him saying that he wish it got entered into service
@@Alex324 that they're watching videos of people reviewing it on cold war? not really
Politics: killing servicemen since...well, since the dawn of time.
votes get fooled an soldiers get fucked an politicians get rich. still military rule is allways worse solders can lead no gods no master's
There were times when politicians(kings) used to lead the armies.
@@hp2084 lol march on id say il be right behind ya waiting to give a shit about a rich mans problems lo.l im celt are kings lead battle but even Gerry adams an bobbys sand werent exactly our besr in combat. sadly most that are take the queens shilling.TAL
LOL
And in my experience, the pols who fuck it up the most are the ones that are most popular with the servicemen
US: "WE WILL NOT ACCEPT LESS THAN A 30 CALIBER CATDRIDGE WE NEED MORE POWER!" a few years later, "check out this new 5.56 round, isn't it neat?"
People think the USA is a land of corn fed giants, but the reality is short stunted people living in the rural and urban wastelands. the American population did not recover fully from the starvation of the thirties until the 80s kids were adults. two generations for growth stunted by poverty to be erased from the gene pool.
And of course child soldiers in the armies of the third world, esp the Western motivated 'rebel' coup armies, they cannot use full sized rifles, so toy guns are needed.
There is the right way the wrong way and the American way
th-cam.com/video/jexf8A462jM/w-d-xo.html
@@martinkineavy9039 As I believe Winston Churchill himself said, you can trust the Americans to do the right thing but only after they've tried everything else.
Britain: "We've developed an amazing new rifle!"
America: "You can't have that rifle."
Britain: "... :'(
Britain: "Here's a good cartridge to standardise with."
NATO: "Cool, yeah we like this."
America: "Nope, use this round we like and we promise to use the FAL".
NATO: "Well we were supposed to work together and be open about testing but OK I guess"
America: "Actually I was kidding about using the FAL, sorry not sorry."
Britain: >:(
Harry Eaton well shit we Americans were the ones paying for NATO from the get go, and still today.
If your paying for the bucket of beer, you get to choose the brand. If you’re funding an international military, you pick the guns.
@@richardlea818 Ok, but at least pick a good gun. xD
Some Guy yeah I definitely wont argue for the m14. Stupid design no one asked for or wanted. Not sure the FAL was a great gun either though
@@richardlea818 Sure, but we only took the FAL because America forced us to go with 7.62 NATO instead of an intermediate cartridge and that gun could handle it. The EM-2 however was a great rifle.
Cold war: Drops EM2 on season 5
TH-cam: NOW THIS LOOKS LIKE A JOB FOR ME
Why am I hearing Eminem's voice in the background when I read your comment?
@@PabloHernandez-gl5ij 😂
So everybody Just follow me
@@PabloHernandez-gl5ij same 😂😂😂😂
@@PabloHernandez-gl5ij so everybody just follow me cuz we need a little controversy.
Man, if only this was put into service properly. I'm sure it would have had a knock-on effect on the rest of the industry. I still cannot believe that it's roughly 70 years old. This must've been like something out of science fiction back then. Not to mention what modern firearms would have looked like if this was put into service and gone through its own evolution.
Mechanical engineering is interesting like that, sometimes its possible to find the (almost) best solution very early, just look at the German bolt-action rifles for an example, the Model 95 design is 122 years old and virtually unchanged to this day (and still in production) outside of a few improvements made for the K98 (that US sniper rifles are based on) a rifle that is 82 years old.
Not so Looney my friend. You are correct in every respect. The EM series would have revolutionised combat rifles and, most importantly, NATO.
My dad made a wood copy of one of those when I was a kid.
I think it is interesting to note that we are now looking into a new cartage that would have more power than 5.56 NATO but less than 7.62 NATO, something like this.
Like 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 etc. Haven't made much progress other than special operations though.
The SA80 that could have been. Someone should make a reproduction of this rifle that chambers 5.56 and put it to the test against other bullpups.
Wood furniture and steel stampings for that classic 50's vintage feel.
Would probably be lighter than the SA-80 to boot.
MonMalthias nah they would have replaced the wood with plastic and it would have been lighter.
maybe you should try bushmaster m17s, its kinda have a feeling of EM-2 (just feeling, aesthetic different)
If they chambered the reproduction in 7.62x39mm it would actually be very close to the original .280 and the mag catch on this even looks basically the same as an AK, so it wouldn't ruin the styling if you used 20 round tanker mags.
Ok, "very close" might be overstating it somewhat, but a lot closer than the previously mentioned 5.56 and the combination of readily available steel magazines with cheap ammo would be nice.
Hey Ian I'm from Poland and I find your pronunciation exeptionally good for a foreigner, I mean you can tell that you are not polish but still best pronunciation of polish terms and names i ever heard. BTW your work is great really appreciate that.
Cold War: brings this weapon to the game
TH-cam: wanna learn more about the EM2?
Video paused. Wanna keep watching?
More like
We paused your video because we wanna ruin your day. You can hit the purchase button to get TH-cam premium
@@Di_D3M0N wut
@@Di_D3M0N excuse me?
Jesus christ how many of you fucking drones have to say the same exact thing
While watching this video I’ve got flashbacks pictures jumping in my memory: underground tunnel firing range, old 480 p video quality and British army sweater.
Those who know, may be few. But I’m pretty sure they suddenly felt old.
Thanks Ian for your fantastic job!
Great, thanks for reminding me and making me feel old
RAF sweater/jumper - not Army!
It was the video that introduced me to this channel, been looking forward to this to a while
BennettC yes that is an important distinction. ent no green around here.
That was the second video I watched on this channel (right after a FG42 shooting video)... Oh the memories... and a great start to something quite special.
EM-2 will hold a special place in my mind for many reasons, this included.
Imagine this with polymer rather than wood, a more practical optical sight and generally just streamlined, as would probably have happened (not all of it right away of course) had it been fully adopted.
The mental image is quite striking. It might even have caused the 'bullpup evolution' of the late 70s to happen at least 15 years earlier.
Could we possibly get another 'shooting episode' with this very interesting rifle? I would love to see it on a range, though that might be stretching the hopes way too far.
Why plastic? Wood dosen't melt when melt when you put fly repellent on it. The larger front hand grip is nicer in the hand, especially with gloves, and bear in mind the 'Battlefeild ' was to be Northern Europe. Also plastics at that time were unproven, wood was cheap and the skill available to work it were. As I've said before, when these things were being developed the UK Economy was still on rationing and virtually bankrupt, so this was a major undertaking , with WW3 a distinct possibility.
It happened with the M16. The first M16 is radically different to a modern M16 in many ways.
Polymers don't warp in heat or humidity, and wood is as noted elsewhere here heavier.
Anyway, I did note 'not all of it right away'. I would assume any move to plastics would happen in the early 60s, after changing the optics. So in a potential Mk. 3 version. A bit like the FAL or G3, not to the same extent as the M16 for instance.
Jonas: Polymers don't now! At the time, especailly with servcie in India and Far Eastern countries, the British were well aquainted with the properties of various woods and the bedding of barrels and actions under climatic extremes.
In fact the intent was to replace the wood with polymer for series production.
Anyone else get this video as soon as the bocw battle pass released this gun?
Gun is real good in BOCW too lmao
@@xdaddyduragx7989 yep literally a 3 shot
Yep
All these years later and the 280 cartridge is spot on. Not as powerful as the 7.62-51 but more power than the 5.56.
5.56 is superior in every way.
@@AR15andGODNot when you shoot a terrorist 3 times and hes still running at you because 5.56 is underpowered
@@PiospkcSure. Except that the scenario with a terrorist running after being hit 3 times with a 5.56 round is completely made up.
So we have the Garand in .276 found favorable in testing in the '30s, which is then changed to 30-06 due primarily to logistics (surplus of 30-06). Then, more than 20 years on, when others (as we had 20 years earlier) found 7mm a good place to be, we are insisting on a 30-06 equivalent (Which is only still used due to the logistics of 20 years ago). The politics of procurement can be a little maddening.
Meh, we should have ignored them. The EM-2 was an outstanding design for its time.
Yep, a colossal fuck up to say the very least. America was stuck in the past, and couldn't see where gun designs were going, until Stoner brought them up to speed many years later.
alganhar1 it still is , why we ended up with the fn SLR is beyond me
@@TheAngrySaxon1 as a American I agree 280 British was a much better cartridge than 7.62x51. We were stuck on the m1 garand
We did it as a compromise, settle for the FAL in 7.62 if the US adopts the FAL too, everyone's happy. But the US had no intention of compromising, just getting their own way.
@@sethlance8009 an m 1 garand with external magazine
Jumping from bolt action to this would have been such a MASSIVE jump forward. With you Ian on that Para model being pretty sweet, even without considering the age.
Can't believe this was recommended because of the new Cold War update.
As a Polish person, I'd say that your pronunciation was quite ok :)
What a badass rifle. Such a shame that it didn't become standard for NATO.
what a coincidence, as soon as season 5 of cwar releases that has em2 im recommended this
The videos in this channel should be made into digital copies and be a part of every library in the western world in the future!
Sounds like us brits. Have a great idea then throw it out the window and implement a poorly thought out badly made knock off version made to inferior standards.
That or we have a plan then put a person in charge that was actively working against its success only a short time ago.
Shady Orange Don't worry, they redeemed themselves with the l85....Har Har har.
Sounds like you're pissed off about the Harrier too...
"What a great idea... but is it *TOO* good?"
mostly to please the bloody Yanks as well
I've just spent 20 minutes trying to rub that black dot off my screen 😀
Steve Ozone m8 what are you talking about there's no black dot
are u halucinating?
Steve Ozone know the feeling
Steve Ozone lol
Wut african-american dot?
LMAO the first thing I did was scroll to make sure it wasn't on my screen.
how many times are we gonna get recommended these videos when they drop from cold war
I'm not a gun person by any means. Having said that, I do love history and industrial history even more, and your videos are always well done, filled with historical note points for me to look up later and just generally enjoyable. Good show sir, please continue to educate the masses!
Hi, I saw this weapon at the School of Small Arms when I did a course there in the early sixties after a tour in Bahrain etc. We Paras were very envious of this gun as our SLR's would jamb in the desert if there was a smidgen of oil left in the mechanism. We found the only way to clear the FN was to cock it using the side of our boots! The EM-2 was demonstrated by dropping in oil, sand, dirt, cocking and firing it, no problem! I started my soldiering with the SMLE No. 4 and finished with the AR-15 Armarlite years later in VN. I still think back on that EM-2 and think "if only.)!
US: Nothing less than 30.cal
Also US: adopts anaemic .223
Tell you what. I'll shoot M193 ball and be 800M away with iron sights. Would you stand down range?
Anemic it may well be, but humans are generally very fragile and even an anemic wound tends to put them out of the fight. 99% of the argument for larger calibers would be put to bed if we just used a good hollowpoint or soft tip expanding bullet to get a larger than 7.62 wound from the 5.56 diameter. Only need armor penetrating when you're fighting an enemy with armor.
@@leftyeh6495
They'd still keep going with their "hurr durr muh .30/.45 Cal bettur" argument anyway or tell you to man up, it's just a little weight more than usual.
Guys thinking we still fight WWI and soldiers don't move around most of the time.
@@Maple_Cadian yeah but 7.62 can do things a 5.56 cant do. İts a whole different story with 7.62, if you can control the recoil its superior
@@Maple_Cadian i am an infantrist and i am using 7.62. Of course the average conscript/enlisted will need some training, but i think its definitely controllable. Everything is about training and some momths of concentrated training are mostly enough. And the 7.62 has 150-200m higher effective range and is just more powerful. İt can pierce trees or even some walls whilst a 5.56cant
@@Maple_Cadian we as professionals in TUR Army always prefer the 7.62 because the variety of jobs we have. One day its about patrolling in a town, another dau about cleaning up some mountains. On 200+ meters a 5.56 loses its effectivity really fast, while 7.62s do penetrate everything even then.
İ never had the opportunity to use intermediate stuff but i think it is a nice mix. The 6.5grendel now or 280brit back then would have been good options. İ just think heavy bullets are the most important thing but intermediate calibres could be nice
I find it funny this just came out in the new call of duty game and this video was recommended
Same lol
Who where got recommended this because of Season 5 Warzone?
That disassembly was amazing. It can only be described as a thing of beauty. I can't help but really applaud the guys behind this. The team really produced a damned good rifle.
Shame the politics got in the way.
That and I think I know how to get Ian to go squee. Someone want to help me build/model a left hand paratroop EM2?
You know how to get people "to go squee?" ....? Translate if you will/can please.
How to make Ian a very happy man.
So happy he makes a sound akin to squee.
You can see how the design is influenced by wartime lessons - do it well and do it simply.
Any update on the model?
Outstanding video again. This series on the British post war developmental rifles has been totally outstanding. Excellent work you have every gun and history lover wishing to work with you.
You are the steve1989 of old historical guns. I love you enthusiasm and love of history. I am a huge fan thank you.
Very nice video, I've read several documents on the gun but not had the chance to check it out irl; I enjoyed the impartiality you give to the commentary and details! Top stuff! :)
Such a shame that the US decided to force all the other NATO members to use 7.62x51 for their battle rifles and thereby completely neglecting any kind of research concerning assault rifle ammunition during or after the war as well as stomping projects like this
More like US ordnance and Springfield Armory.
Goes along with them politically dismantling the british aerospace industry
@@CountArtha Harriers ( Sea ) are only used at the carrier deck handling school, Tornados are out of service very soon - still use the Typhoon which is about as british as the Tornado ( ie, a european aircraft ). The space program was cancelled when NASA said they'd launch British satellites for free - which they went back on as soon as the program was cancelled. Most of the UK mil aerospace industry was wrecked by Duncan Sandys in 1957 who thought missiles would do everything - he was right, just 100 years early.
@@bushyfromoz8834 Don't forget the job the US did on AVRO Canada when they convinced the government that SAMs were the air defense for the future, and then sold them inferior interceptors after the Canadian government had cancelled the Arrow, which basically gutted AVRO Canada.
Sean true, forgot about the AVRO. The F111 stitchup as well, promised a lot and never delivered. But like the F35 program in some ways
Great video! The Para model is extremely handy! I see you didn't try and strip the bolt down, I don't blame you! Certainly easier to disassemble than the EM-1, but beyond a basic field strip the EM-2's bolt is armourer level only. Having stripped and reassembled one myself I can't imagine how many machine operations it took to make the bolt and the flaps.
Every time a DLC weapon gets added to Cold War, I get a Forgotten weapons video on that weapon recommended to me
I know its kinda sus
As a fan of bullpups, I always wondered about this post-war design. I'm surprised at how simple this model is to operate and field strip. Thank you from 2021 for this 2017 video!
If this weapon had ever been issued can you imagine the beg,trade,borrow,steal the average squaddie would have done to get the "para version"
Rusty lungzs And then promptly get put on a charge for cutting his barrel down ;)
You are issued your weapon and that is it. Its not a cigarette card with a footballer onit ffs....
Looks like a weapon from a 50's space movie
I would expect the Thought Police in an early version of '1984' to be carrying these...
Another artefact from the Dan Dare future we never got to have.
Have always been curious about these rifles. Thank for the video!
wow season 5 been out for 2 days and this video already found it’s way to my recommended
What happened with this rifle, and it being pretty advanced for the time reminds me of what occurred with the TSR-2.
th-cam.com/video/PhXcd-881xA/w-d-xo.html
Rene Studler happened. Went on record saying any foreign designs were a waste of time, with such bias he should have never been in charge of decisions like that, he'd already made his mind up from the start and buried reports that the .280 was good. Also went against NATO agreements that nations should openly conduct trials and secretly trialled what would eventually become the M-14.
APT as well.
I 100% guarantee I saw this man in a Stockholm airport about 2 weeks ago
Well, I was in the Stockholm airport 2 weeks ago...
I like how every time there’s a new cold war gun releases this guy pops up on my recommended
Such a superb looking rifle.
Plus, what a mental barrel length for infantry!
Thanks Ian & Ares.
I have a sort of techno-crush on this rifle, and have had for years. This is the ONLY firearm that makes me want to live in a place where full-auto self-loaders are legal.
I find it fascinating and ironic that a lot of the work the US did with intermediate cartridges as a result of Iraq/Afghan war experience post 9/11 ended up in much the same place as the .280 British started, and that in turn was not far off the place the .276 Pedersen was.
The shame of it was that the EM-2 did not take well to the 7.62x51, while the FN FAL (originally designed for the .280 British) did.
jsm666 only took them 70 years
@@hakimcameldriver From Wikipedia "It is chambered in 7.62×51mm NATO cartridge (although originally designed for the .280 British intermediate cartridge). The British Commonwealth variant of the FAL was redesigned from FN's metrical FAL into British imperial units and was produced under licence as the L1A1 Self-Loading Rifle."
I wonder if that first trials .280 ammo hadn't been shoddy if the US would more open to intermediate rounds earlier.
U.S.: "No."
Definitely not. They denied .276 Pedersen solely based off 30-06 inventory back slightly before WW2. The Garand was apparently an amazing rifle (if still heavy) with a 10 round magazine in .276. Their determination was 'all or nothing' in the end, and so even though they COULD have had two different main ammunition calibers, it was determined that it MUST be 30-06 or nothing. Hell, this is part of the reason the Pedersen rifle was denied and Garand adopted-the Pedersen was only .276 while Garand was available in both for testing.
i was just looking for a class setup..
Came back to this video because this gun will be released on Cold War.
Yup. Love these things!:O:D Also, Ian, exceptional camera positioning and editing on this one, well done and thank you for another look at these.:)
And don't get me started on the TSR2
casinodelonge ah the story of the best military aircraft made by Britain that was destroyed by politicians
Or the Avro Arrow (Canada) the p.1127, the Miles M.52 ect. Not to mention the space program, aircraft industry and just about anything that can be scrapped and given to our friends over the pond.
Eh I've spoken to some of the engineers on from the plane; it was a bit of a white elephant by the end of that project's existence.
Though the knowledge gained did bear fruit when it came time to design the Tornado
I love your channel, and especially the fact TH-cam algorithm work perfectly with it.
Every time new weapon are introduced in COD Cold War or Warzone or MW, TH-cam directly recommend me the video from your channel talking about it. And I love it. Merci beaucoup.
Those Lee Enfield SMLE rifles in 303 were some awesome rifles, I had one that had been manufactured in 1917 and it shot like a brand new rifle and was incredibly accurate! Wish I still had it!
I've always loved the look of the "grenade shaped left hand grip", the ambidexterity problem wasn't really there since everybody was forced to shoot the Lee Enfield right handed anyway.
Watched the Dersetech 7.62MDR Teardown video yesterday: "You have this dismantle tool. then you unscrew this screw, this screw, you turn this locking element,..." and so on. And then there is this gun. Practically is it exactly the same, but 70 years older and way more user friendly.
Thanks for this excellent video on a rifle I've long admired (I may be a tad biased being a Brit but it was way in advance not only of the SMLE but the Garand & even the M14)
Call of duty is just adding stuff found on forgotten weapons
Always interesting & always well presented especially for this Brit🇬🇧.
Good Lord that is a hell of an advanced rifle for being developed just after WWII. It took decades to work back up to recognizing a lot of these ideas as valid. Can you even imagine how military rifle development would have occurred had this been adopted?
It should of been called the -- 'E-M 2 Good'
The British were astute enough to learn to adopt and modify current trends. We wanted (pre ww1) to reduce the power of our cartridges but BFI
won over with the onset of WW1. After WW2 the way to go was trailblazed by the German intermediate cartridge. The British EM2 cartridge was perfect for the weapon. Unfortunately Churchill caved in and we ended up with a US high power round, Have a Happy New Year everyone.
Before WW1, the target types were trying to introduce a service rifle that used a cartridge akin to the 7mm Rem Mag.; the .280 Enfield in the P-15. They also wanted it to work with Cordite. Hideous muzzle flash and insane recoil resulted. Fortunately? WW1 intervened and the idea "went away" with the P-13 being rapidly re-engineered to become the P-14 as produced by Winchester, Remington and Eddystone and then morphing into the M-17 to meet demand when the US entered the war. MOST of the US troops arriving in France were clutching an M-17, not a Springfield.
The concept of the BIG .280 did not go away, however. It returned in the mid-1930s in the experimental Ainley sniper rifle, which looks a lot like a “product-improved” P-14
Aaaargh! P-13, NOT P-15
Ian loves this gun. Can't believe he came to the uk and didn't do some meet and greets or some lectures. Great content as ever.
I don't know why but i have a thing for bullpup rifles....
But awesome video as usual
gun Jesus
Caleb Millen I'm the same way.... Just something about them for me... Makes the pants get tight
STAHP. GET SOME HELP.
Caleb Millen I like the way they look, but I would not want to have chamber that close to my head in case of failure. It reminds me of the old helicopter designs where the blade is below the standing pilot. Everything is great unless there is a problem, then you get eaten by the blender.
regular guns are easy, the challenges in designing a good bullpup make each different attempt more unique and interesting
Gun Jesus 😂 that’s the best,
Cold War Devs just watched Gun Jesus during it’s entire development
Hey man, you’re vids are 💯! Thanks for lots of late night entertainment!
How do the videos only surface after the weapon comes out in cold war
The mystery of why so many have determined the "sweet spot" for efficiently killing white tail deer sized mamals (people fall squarely into this category) is right around 6.5 to 7mm/.25 to .28 inch, 125 grains, 2500fps... And so few of the optimum cartridges were fielded by militaries after WWI.
6.5 Swede was almost there, all that was needed would have been to optimize that case as was done to derive the 7.62 NATO from 30-06, you have the resolution of all these trials. Could have been done 100 years ago, SHOULD have been done 60 years ago, might the military finally get it right this century?
The requirements for a medium machinegun are just too high energy for a select fire intermediate type individual soldier's weapon, the 7.62 NATO was a square peg driven into a round hole for political and logistics reasons. The 5.56 NATO was a temporary patch that metastasized to nearly as inappropriately take over the slot a 6.5-7mm should have filled in the light machinegun/selective fire roll.
Thank you for the info sir, I will keep this in mind in warzone
The first thing I thought when I saw this gun is it looks like an early version of the SA80/L85 lol. Thank you for clarifying they're not related Ian. Love your videos
The TH-cam algorithm gives me this video once it gets added into Cold War
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
This happens every new weapon drop in cold war istg lmao
Literally told myself while playing today "im probably gonna get a forgotten weapons video on this thing"
I have been binge watching these videos the last few days and I love them! Can I please request that you use SI units instead of the imperial system? Or at the least both...
There were some interesting cartridge developments in this caper.
One of these was the 7mm, "second optimum". This is VERY close to the MUCH later, commercial, 7mm / 08. Venezuela adopted it in their initial FAL order but these were, apparently re-barreled in later years to 7.62 NATO.
From the "nothing new under the sun' department, the Remington 7mm BR case is quite similar to the later version of the 280 round, the .280 / 30. This has much the same dimensions as the .280 "proper", but includes the more robust, thicker rim of the 7.62 NATO, hence ".280 / 30".
I note that the Brits borrowed G43 extractor retention system, but appear to have improved on the original retention system that seems to have been more of an "extractor disposal" system. H&K also "borrowed", via the STG45, the same extractor idea, but certainly used a more positive spring / retention design.
Awesome rifle! Someone make a new version of this :)
Hagge Bänke it's called the SA80 la82 😜
Hardly a clone 😧 I'd love to see an updated (cnc receiver etc.) Ambi eject would be easily acheived with a topsided eject mod to the bolt and flip flop eject port......🤔 I WANT TWO IN DIFFERENT CAL. AND MY OWN OPTICS 😎 YAAAAAAA
This rifle was so ahead of its time that I think that the Americans simply couldn't wrap their heads around this rifle.
Amazingly enough, it was one man (Colonel Rene Studler) who pretty much singlehandedly ensured that the US would not accept any cartridge that wasn't .30 caliber. And then within a decade was also responsible for going to the opposite extreme and having the US adopt a .22 caliber assault rifle.
Has Col Rene Studler been fully investigated for treason or poor mental health? If I may ask.
RedXlV source for this madman, plz?
Mike E he's probably long dead. As an American,, I wish we had adopted the em2 or fal. I know the fal is great and the em2 looks sturdy and simple.
JTN 1970 no doubt. And the military can be very straighlaced when it comes to change.
I love how this perfectly lines up with the warzone battle pass with this weapon available to play with
LOVE POTION RIFLE NO. 9! Almost elegant wooden furniture, the weapon has a steampunk feel to it. Wasn't aware of this rifle.
Interesting that a guard was added to the mag release, as that had to happen to the SA80A1.
Cold War update dropped and look what popped up after 4 years
I'm gonna start watching every video on this channel to see which possible upcoming cold war guns will drop
We used to have a really innovative post-WWII aircraft industry in Britain as well. The EM2 compared to the Lee-Enfield is like the Avro Vulcan compared when it took over from the Avro Lincoln (improved version of the Lancaster) bomber 😪.
Funny old thing: the British were the first to use 5.56mm AR15 rifles in combat in the 1962-66 Borneo Confrontation with Indonesia. It was an RAF Regiment liaison officer who suggested to the USAF Security Police to adopt that same rifle to defend USAF bases in Vietnam (and also adopt light armoured vehicles). 🤔...the US Army later adopted that rifle for their soldiers in that theatre of operations, and the rest is history.
This video has more views than Cold War has active players
Hey this vid has more views than warzone and mw twitch viewership put together.
Ian is in love, Ian and a para EM2 sitting in a tree....
Great video as ever! Thanks!
Wow nice video, trained on the SA80a1 so this was a eye opener for me @Forgotten Weapons
Why is it that every time Cold War gets a new weapon I get a video from this guy and it the exact gun in Cold War
Lol this pops up 2 days after the new season in cold war
anyone else got recommended this just after warzone season 5 update?
Fired this weapon in the seventies at Upavon (school of infantry) Impeccable,utterly perfect.
Ian, your Galil and EM2 videos are about to get more views than usual
Such craftsmanship. Mmm.
Hoping for the day when Ian will give us a "LET ME SHOW YOU ITS FEATURES!!!"
really brilliant assesment
Superb video, thank you so much, you are a Gent.