Yorktown absolutely deserves the praise you heap upon her, particularly since you make clear the remarkable efforts of the damage control crew - any vessel is more than just steel or wood, after all.
She was tougher than she had any right to be, certainly. Were I a sailor I'd probably prefer to be on one of the British Illustrious class, which were absurdly tough, simply because you could almost garuantee they'd get you home safe. But if I couldn't be on a ship i was sure could survive attack, i'd be happy with a ship that endured long enough to save most of her crew before she died. OFC in an ideal world you'd want British armoured decks with American aviation capacity, but no one could manage that until after the war.
The Achilles Heel of the Yorktown class carriers was that the 2 engines rooms were right next to each other. The torpedo hit between the two and knocked out both engine rooms. This was solved in the Essex class carriers.
To be fair though. The Yorktown and Enterprise were built to fit within the Washington Naval Treaty limits. Hornet was built on a time limit. So it’s more the fact that it was outside factors that bought it on. Not inexperience or neglect. Nonetheless The fact that the IJN expended a lot of effort into sinking Yorktown and Hornet. Plus Enterprise at a couple of points being reduced to a barely functioning wreck is a credit to their design.
I’ve spoken to a friend of mine who was on the Yorktown at the battle of coral sea and at midway. He was a teenager on the ship and he told me the damage taken at coral sea was a factor in it sinking in the battle of midway. When I was young he didn’t speak very often about his time on this ship. But as he aged he often spoke about the ship and showed us some of his photos. Unlike many young people serving in the navy at the time he did not enjoy shore leave and preferred staying on ethe ship. But most of all he simply loved being at sea. During the battle he worked on the anti aircraft guns. I suspect because he was very young I think he supplied ammo and worked the damage control efforts. After the ship was first abandoned he did return to the ship work on repair crews. Sadly he died several years ago.
@Chandler White In addition he told me he happened to have been in the engine room when it first took damage during the battle of the coral sea. For what ever reason at the battle of midway he maned the antiaircraft weapons.
Yes Hannah,he was right.Dad was on The Yorktown CV5.An EM1 he also handled Ammo for gun number 1.Many men were cross trained to man the guns if necessary.The Coral Sea damage was very bad.Bulkheads were warped very badly and shrapnel went everywhere.Dad was in the forward elevator pump room down in the bottom of the ship very close to where the forward bomb hit was.Trapped by a seized scuttle they almost died from the smoke.In 1993 I introduced the damage repair party that couldn't get to them to them at a reunion in Denver.(Awkward)Dad said on the way back to Pearl he hammered wooden plugs into shrapnel holes as he rigged temporary lighting in the damaged areas.Bulkhead doors were replaced or welded shut and or even taken off.more were replaced at Pearl.The ships water tight integrity was badly compromised.The ship had missed four or more overhauls.Her boilers were wore out and her turbines too.Her superheaters for her boilers were damaged and couldn't be used so she couldn't get the 33knots she needed,plus alot more.
@@hannahmich7342 If he was handling 1.1" or .5" guns, likely he was serving in the Marine Cor. Just curious, what he was doing - as such - in the engine room during the battle?
I like CV-6 better because of the whole "Enterprise versus Japan" incident, but you have to give credit to a ship which survives 3 of it's 4 "sinkings."
I think the Yorktowns were definitely the most valuable carriers of the time. Not because of their contributions, which are still legendary, but because of the lessons learned from them. The Yorktowns paved way for the Essexs. The lessons learned from Yorktown and Hornet made it so no Essex was ever lost in combat. Yorktown herself was thought to be sunk multiple times, leading the Japanese to think they sunk all 3 of her class. She fought to the last. And so did Hornet. These ships took an insane amount of damage before sinking. Its still almost a criminal offense that they didn't preserve the only survivor of her class, given the contributions they made to US naval superiority of the war. A damn shame.
@@justsoicanfingcomment5814 while that is true, today's aircraft carriers are able to withstand massive hits and stay afloat. If you haven't watched it already, you should look up the USS America. It is insane what that ship took before she sunk.
@@SOU6900 KMS Bismarck had a cat, which was rescued after Bismarck's sinking, The cat was placed on HMS Ark Royal , which was then torpedoed and sunk by a U-boat . The cat got revenge !
The Yorktown’s were very good ships and proved to be very durable. Their unfortunate Achilles heel however was they boiler/engine room lay out with everything concentrated. Had they been built with an alternating engine room and boiler room configuration I’m convinced that both Yorktown and Hornet would have not been immobilized and thus would have survived.
Many newer U.S. cruisers employed the alternating boiler and engine room design for just the reasons you mentioned. I believe this was first implemented with the St. Louis class cruisers, which provided the template for future USN light and heavy cruisers. The last of that line, the Newport News class, were probably some of the most survivable ships of their era short of a battleship.
My favorite ship covered! She was one of the reasons why I became interested in American history and learned to always pay attention to the individual stories associated with events. Great work as always.
Interesting. I actually flew off of the 2nd Yorktown (CVS-10) after she was returned to the Atlantic in 1969 as part of the air group deployed aboard her in the summer of 1969. While we enjoyed all the WestPac goodies (the Pacific fleet had more money so the Yorktown had a lot of air conditioned spaces that the USS Randolph (CVS-15 and our previous ship) did not have. The interaction of the air group and ships company was not nearly as good, however. When they brought Yorktown around the horn (angle deck carriers could no longer go through the Panama Canal) only 1/3 of her crew came with her. To that about 1/3 of the crew from the Randolph was transferred and the remainder of the crew was new. The old crew didn't want to be there and the us vs them between them and the Randolph crew didn't help. But, she's a good ship and I'm glad she survived the cutting torch unlike the Randolph. When I was going through flight training and the topic of carriers came up our instructor drew a thin chalk line down the board and commented that on a carrier that is what separated you from the sea. A little exaggerated, but not by much. The story of the CV-5 Yorktown was still held in awe by the Navy sea dogs when I was in the Navy (1965-1970).
I have 100% agreement with Yorktown as one of my favourite ships. Quickly repaired and plays a pivotal role in the battle of midway (both in the attack and defence). The war might have turned out quite differently without this one ship.
CV-5 wasn't repaired. Her wound on the side was just patched by a huge plate of steel, and her bulging bulkheads were just propped by timber beams. There was no time for repairs.
The USN missed a golden opportunity to name CVN-81 Yorktown. Doris Miller was a great American, a verifiable hero, but that’s a name for a destroyer or frigate, not a carrier.
My grandfaughter was a young boy during wwi. he saw men broken by poison gas and trench warfare. my dad memorized the eye test to join ww2. he went from being a milk truck driver to a warrant officer would was an expert on automatic transmissions of sherman tanks. similar things happened to my uncle in korean war. we are facing a fourth turning where our young people will face similar challenges as our greatest generation. thank you for keeping their memory alive and hopefully this will be a insperation to our young people.
CV-2 Lexington is my favorite carrier. I just love the look of her and Saratoga. It's really sad that she was sunk so early but the lessons in damage control learned then greatly helped the other carriers.
Yeah... I’ve heard the same. Here’s the thing, why would they have a car on board? Where are they launching it? What purpose would that serve? In other words, no, they didn’t.
@@SkeeterPondRC Actually they did launch some but that was old Navy. EPA would scream if they did that today. When a carrier is redeployed to a new homeport, it often redeploys its crew as well. To speed and ease the transition, the Navy will load the crew’s belongs and vehicles onto the carrier to speed up the moving process and make it less stressful. After all, you have something the size of a small city relocating. It can easily accommodate hundreds of vehicles at no cost to itself to carry them save for the time to load them and unload them. They have done similar tests with the Gerald Ford. More of a test sled on that one though. You don't want to launch a multi-million dollar aircraft and crew without making sure the cat works.
The Midway class was the last gasp at the huge funnels, just those ships were much larger, so the island/funnel didn’t look abnormally large like on a Yorktown class carrier.
I have been to Yorktown and Missouri. I would say that New Jersey would have survived the damage but would have been in dry dock for a while. Yorktown is worthy of the praise you have given that class of ships.
@@oafdawg314 Context matters. I have been to the CV-10 Yorktown and the other ships at Patriot's Point many times over the years. I got to spend two nights on board when I was in high school. The ship holds great sentimental value for me, not just for all the history there, but the good times spent there with family and friends. Definitely worth the visit for people who are down that way.
I've been patriots point and fort sumpter so it's a first class experience. So much to take in. I think Ryan's assessment is on point and reasonable to say Yorktown was a true warrior
The thing about the naval treaty limiting tonnage, how much straight up lying went on with that? Seems it would be in every country's best interest to understate the displacement of their ships.
we didnt wait long lol the Lexingtons were given the tonnage allowed by the treaty to them despite it being a provision for older ships to add 3000 tons of extra defenses onto existing ships not a new conversion so even we were guilty of cheating the system lol
Hypothesis: The countries who had no interest in obeying could use that as a reason to plan out their future fleet. Those who were trying to avoid war (America) probably liked the justification to save money.
1) There are other reasons for USN torpedo squadrons to fly with smaller numbers than the other squadrons in US carrier air groups besides their vulnerability in their attack run. Torpedo aircraft were simply larger than other aircraft on carrier decks. This was particularly noted when the TBF/TBM Avenger came into service (the after-action report form USS _Enterprise_ after Eastern Solomons made special note that VT squadrons needed to be reduced due to the difficulty of moving the big new Grummans around the hangar and flight decks), but even the TBD was significantly bigger than the SBD (not to mention the F4F). And of course TBD numbers were additionally restricted because of the limited production run of that type of aircraft. 2) How would USS _New Jersey_ have held up against the detonation of USS _Hamman's_ load of depth charges close aboard? That might be more damaging than the actual torpedoes fired by _I-168_ (and _maaaay_ have been the final blow that resulted in USS _Yorktown_ sinking).
Enterprise (CV-6) will always be a legend, but the story of Yorktown (CV-5) is on the same level as the great stories from ancient times of men who are larger than life doing deeds beyond that of mere mortal men.
There was a book called "No higher honor. USS Yorktown and the battle of Midway." Admiral Halsey was quoted "There are no extraordinary men, only normal men under extraordinary circumstances."
Uss enterprise was stateside in late 1942 and early 1943 , among the additions was a torpedo blister , also too she was the first fully operational night carrier and did the first night sortie from a carrier
@@huskythedinosaur1592 you could also add that the name enterprise had twice the distinction of having CVN , CVN 6 because of the first fully operational night carrier and CVN 65 for the first carrier vessel nuclear ,
In my opinion, surviving damage is not all about the design of the ship. The damage control training of the crew plays a HUGE role in determining survival or sinking. (I.E. USS Lexington vs USS Franklin.) Can't wait for a chance to see the USS New Jersey (BB-62). Beautiful ship.
A side note to the repair efforts to get Yorktown turned around in 72 hours, the arc welders were working there butts off as you said 24/7 and people were complaining about brownouts in the Pearl harbor area. Folks there is a flipping war on don't believe me come look at the USS Arizona over here. By the way that's why there's oil on top of the water all over Pearl harbor!
One thing that's kind of worth considering is that if an Iowa was at Midway and did try to close the distance to engage the Japanese carriers with its guns, it's possible it would have wound up fighting Yamato, which was present but did not engage for obvious reasons. A fast battleship barreling towards the Japanese carrier force would likely have prompted a response in kind from the Japanese battleship forces present to protect the carriers. Of course, instead, it could wind up being an Iowa laying the smackdown on Haruna and Kirishima.
the iwoas were good but the sheer punishment a yamato had to take to die was impossibly mind boggling. although the old girls never had that what if....my moneys on Yamato in a 1 on 1 fight
@@redeyedwithanger5866 I'll take your money and the Iowa class. In the Midway scenario, 1 Iowa vs 1 Yamato with accompanying air attacks from the remaining carriers. Oh yah, there were no Japanese carriers left. Musashi and Yamato proved themselves defenseless against air attack.
@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer To be fair on Ark Royal. The chances of her surviving would have been greater. If the Royal Navy’s response to a U-Boat attack on one of their carriers is to abandon ship. The worst part about it was that the sinking of Courageous and Eagle contributed to that thinking.
@@ph89787 there was a major design flaw in the compartmentalization of the engineering spaces. Plus the hatches left open when they abandoned ship all contributed her loss. But Yorktown settled, a little, but did not sink with no one on board.
@@ph89787 both captains abandoned ship early because of concerns about capsizing. The design flaw was part of the compromises in the design for the Washington naval treaty. The engineering spaces weren't compartmentalized longitudely just laterally. So damage on one side would flood both sides of a compartment. Keep in mind also Yorktown had two torpedo hits compared to Arc Royal single torpedo hit. Again her torpedo hit was compounded by the design and all the hatches being left open. I can only assume Yorktown dogged the hatches.
I’ve been on Yorktown (CV-10) and Hornet (CV-12). WRT 2 Yorktowns for 1 Iowa, the better comparison is how many Essex CVs to 1 Iowa, as they both classes were being built at the same time. Yorktown and Enterprise were already launched before any Iowa was even authorized!
Great vid. As usual sounded right on the money, especially the counter-factual on the I-Boat being able to torp the BB. The Chicago Piano 1.1" AA vs. the Japanese 25mm : Like comparing broccoli to asparagus (both cooked by your great aunt Vivian, boiled way too long & served without butter.. not even the dog will take it under the table). Was surprised to hear they liked to keep the Brownings around: Whether the enemy be torp or dive bombers, you can't kill them with .30 or .50 cal's before they drop their ordinance (so the point is rather moot). I guess it made them feel better? Later in the war I am sure they would not have been allowed to since all hands were needed for the 20 and 40's.
The tracers were pretty good at disrupting formations and attacks. They weren't a real threat to the planes bit I'm sure it wouldn't feel that way if you're flying an aluminum can at 100 miles per hour a couple hundred yards above the surface of the ocean when suddenly a line of tracers cuts vaguely across your path.
@Chandler White oh, so you still think that flack was useless and a waste of time and money since they didn't stop the v2s? Sorry but we'll have to agree to disagree on that, facts don't care about your feelings or your inability to understand the facts that a tools inability to stop a threat it was never intended to deal with in the first place cold in its tracks doesn't mean that it's completely useless. If you would actually bothered reading the comment you were replying to and understanding what was being said in the first place then you would know that. as I have already pointed out a couple of times, according to your reasoning slack was useless since it didn't stop the V-2s. I guess Sherman tanks were useless since they didn't stop Bismarck. Obviously Yamato was useless, it didn't stop Japan from being nuked! You believe some wacky stuff my dude.
I'm awed all over again every time I read/hear about Yorktown's incredible resilience. Hats off to her damage control parties for their excellence, and to the ship & her whole crew for embodying the fiercely defiant, never-say-quit American fighting spirit.
The Yorktown "acquiring" extra AA guns sounds like your fellow museum ship Olympia "acquiring" a couple gatling guns and a crap ton of personal firearms in the pre-dreadnought era.
Here is an idea for the “would the Battleship New Jersey survive” series with a more modern twist. How about would the New Jersey survive what sank the six British ships during the Falklands War.
There were a variety of causes, either free fall 500lb bombs, or in two cases, Exocet. NJ would almost certainly have survived the bombs, because of her armour. Not sure about the exocet, I guess it depends on where it might have impacted.
One of the things that wasn't repaired in the emergency dry docking at Pearl harbor was her watertight integrity. They knew that there was damaged to the integrity and she could possibly suffer uncontrollable flooding if there was penetrations below the water line. That is why Captain buckmaster abandoned ship what we know today as too early.
I have visited the CV-10. I have also visited the Intrepid and Midway. I think in terms of a museum ship the CV-10 is the least impressive. I did really like this video, I learned a lot about the CV-5 Yorktown that I did not know. Always great information. Thanks Ryan!
Ships that sink more than a few hundred feet almost always right themselves before hitting bottom; once everything is flooded all things become more or less equal again and they return to the right way up as designed.
You neglect to take in the fact that 17 Val dive bombers were sent by the Hiryu to avenge the strikes on the three other Japanese carriers, and had they encountered the New Jersey instead of the Yorktown, who had her combat air patrol alerted to the approaching threat and were waiting, the New Jersey would have had to face the best dive bomber squadron the Kido Butai had at that time, and probably would have sustained more bomb hits than the three they made on Yorktown. Plus, the ten Kate torpedo bombers that followed shortly afterwards would most likely have made more than two strikes against the New Jersey. Combined with the torpedoes that came from the Japanese submarine the following day, I'm thinking that the New Jersey would not have survived.
The New jersey would have not sunk, or even been inoperable with two fish and a few bombs.The Yorktown was a definite fighter, and fought till the end, I think if sh had a BB alongside and a few more tin cans for protection she would have survived to fight another day, same goes for the Mighty Hornet!
Just a very few months after Midway the two North Carolina class BBs were available, and the guys in Enterprise LOVED the North Carolina because of that massive forest of anti-aircraft artillery she brought to the fight. One sailor in Enterprise wrote of the first time NC opened up in defense of Big E, "I thought at first she (NC) had exploded." Not certain but at that point in the war (Guadalcanal) NC was still armed with 1.1" Chicago Pianos, she would swap those for twin and quad 40mm while under repair after the torpedo poked a big hole in her bow.
I looked this up. The first fletcher class destroyers were commissioned in May 1942. Would have been great to have their AA capabilities a few months earlier.
@@lorenotrambo9551 actually from what I had read, the battle ships had deployed to the West Coast and they had 5 of them active there. Most of them would have been too slow to keep up with the carriers though. New Jersey would not have that problem of course.
9:35 I believe the correct or more accurate term would be "requisitioning"...when the intent is to give one's own ship (or unit) a step up from what might have otherwise been.
I've got a request about some of the test rounds for the 16" rifles. I've only seen a tiny bit about sabot-sub-munitions. Super high velocity, super high ballistic coefficient and sectional density, and correspondingly long range. While still packing more punch than the 12" fired by the Alaskas. ALSO, could a VT fuse have been fitted to a 16" HC round for use in shore bombardment in the way it was used in the battle of the bulge?
New VT Shells were added during 1980s - 1990s Deployments HE-CVT Mark 143 - 1,900 lbs. (862 kg) Before this however, there were VT-HC shells in use from aprox~ 1944 until 45, and the USN even came up with AAA charts for the 16"/50 guns.
Ryan, I’m pretty sure I’ve visited Yorktown twice as well but my visits were back in the nineties. I really enjoyed exploring her back then. I was so afraid I missed certain displays that I made a second trip within a few years. I remember heading out of an exit on the superstructure and was met with rust perforation on a walkway. I was kind of alarmed that it wasn’t repaired by the time of the second visit. Hopefully their maintenance budget has improved so it hasn’t allowed that wonderful ship to deteriorate any further. I didn’t notice anything like that on New Jersey, thankfully, but then it also has more robust metal thickness. Maybe I could make a return trip to the ships moored on the east coast along with some I couldn’t visit due to the pandemic. It would be a great trip to make to celebrate these great ships.
I agree with what you said. If it wasn't for that Japanese submarine I think they would have put Yorktown back together and it would have gone the distance like Enterprise did. I know good old what ifs
the only ship of that period rather than the Shokaku class that was a similarly good but flawed design to the Yorktowns was the singleton HMS Ark Royal
While the loss of the Yorktown was very tragic and along with carrier hornet spelled out a bleak time for the US Navy during 1942 and early 1943 the bigger tragedy is that the New Jersey did not get to go up against the Yamato
I grew up in Mt.Pleasant. Patriots Point was the best thing about living there. I’ve explored every part of the Yorktown I could, including the flashlight tour, shhh, don’t tell. First time I ever got to go, the N.S. Savannah was there! The other highlight of Mt.P is Palmetto Islands County Park.
"Yorktown almost survived what sunk Yorktown"... Exactly. Not a lot of margin their to get to survivable for an Iowa class. I think your analysis is spot on.
According to the Japanese, Yorktown CV-5 was sunk four times--once during the Battle of the Coral Sea, twice during the Battle of Midway, and then one final time by submarine-fired torpedoes. True, between the first and second "sinkings" Yorktown pulled into Pearl Harbor for hasty repairs and to embark replacement aircraft and fliers. Could the New Jersey have survived being sunk four times? I learned several things from this video.
I think that Yorktown deserves every bit of the praise you've given, she was one tough ship to take that much damage before finally sinking. My gut feeling is that New Jersey would have survived what sank Yorktown. Thanks for the great episode!
Navweaps website has an article suggesting that the Iowa class was extremely resistant to capsizing and were designed to "sink straight down," meaning the risk of capsizing was minimized. SoDak absorbed an immense amount of close range damage at Guadalcanal, and she is often compared to Bismarck as far as damage sustained. Since the Iowas are supposed to be enlarged and faster SoDak's, stands to reason they can easily absorb any damage any given carrier suffered throughout the war... except maybe Shinano lol
The Yorktown crew performed magnificently. If the New Jersey had been present it would have been accompanied by a significant escort fleet of destroyers etc. which may have further protected the Yorktown. The support fleet may be an interesting topic for a future video.
I love watching the old school midway movie but how close are they to portraying their real life counterparts is there any real good books that’s does a good comparison between all the Pacific commander?
The American carriers were unarmored,unlike the British carriers which had 3 inches of deck armor. The Battleships were massively armored with multiple levels of deck armor from plunging ap shells. A battle wagon was designed to take many hits from large caliber shells.
When did the Japanese realize they sank the same ship 4 times, and how much did that demoralize them , and the Yorktown story is inspiring the ship that refused to sink
It's really not hard to make the argument that the Yorktown-class triplets single handedly won the Pacific War, or perhaps less bombastically, that they were the single most effective class of WW2 (and arguably of any war before or since). Just these three ships almost single handedly stopped the Japanese expansion.
While I still consider the scrap of CV-6 (The original Enterprise, Big-E) to be the biggest crime against humanity, the Yorktown (CV-5) was also a miracle ship IMO. How many times did the Japanese put her out of commission or "sink" her only to have her right back in their faces days later -- while I'm sure they had other priorities, it is quite frustrating they didn't escort her back to Pearl with an impressive fleet of escorts to hunt subs like the one that sank her along with the ship tending her. Some of her magic maybe that she was converted from a battlecruiser, but she also featured John Thatch who was key in giving the F4F Wildcat's a fighting chance against the zeros -- and more than a fighting chance in his encounters. Beyond that, the damage control teams and the entire crew of that ship were possibly some of our best assets in the war. Even in her last days she was amazing taking massive damage from one strike only to be perceived as an undamaged, different carrier by the next Japanese strike not long after -- which in effect allowed her to sacrifice herself in a significantly damaged state, likely preserving Enterprise and Hornet from that strike had they not realized they were attacking a damaged carrier. It is also a testament to the ship herself that so few of her crew were lost in the multi-stage, multi-day process of sinking her that finally sent her to the bottom.
With hindsight in mind, of course carriers were the better investment BUT as I love to point out, in the first Battleship vs Carrier battle, the carrier lost.
the carriers worked out their kinks and quirks in ww2 and took over from the battleships the title queen of the seas sad but time marches on for man and machine nothing stays static
When you're the last one or two damn carriers standing between the USA and the Empire of Japan (in what was proving to be an air-power war), I would imagine they could have requisitioned just about anything extra that wasn't dangerous to the ship and which had ANY chance of giving her additional survivability. Once they loose their planes into the air, that carrier's value to the navy and in that immediate battle is nearly zero until such time those planes need a place to land and refuel/rearm. If carriers were ever expected to perform every role possible, they wouldn't travel around in such huge task forces. They'd travel solo. Actively pinging for submarines tells the submarines exactly where you are. I think the task force was spread too thin. If the carrier had a couple destroyers riding along both sides, they'd have likely been the ones to absorb the torpedo...which is exactly the role they're expected to perform even today. As sick as it is, the smaller ship crews are EXPECTED to sacrifice their lives (or at least their ships) in an effort to protect the larger more expensive ships.
While I am biased toward Enterprise myself the Yorktown Class as a whole deserves every ounce of praise they get, as they successfully prosecuted the first half of the war with dignity and honor. I still feel we dishonored all those ships sacrifices by allowing Enterprise to be scrapped as she and her sisters truly embodied the American spirit.
Yorktown was far more valuable than any of the Iowas, they ended up as over expensive anti-aircraft gun platforms escorting carriers. Once they entered service their designed fast fleet action role was long gone.
i never understood why iowa had a 1.5 inch external deck and 6 inch internal would have thought that would have been the other way around would have thought that would be adding extra damage control and maintenance
If memory serves USS Yorktown cv5 was heavily damaged before she sank she had been repaired to get her operational but still from understanding for a large part of the damage she had had from the previous battle it's probably why she thinks so easy the second time she saw combat.
Due purely to experience, Yorktown's damage control teams were likely way better than Iowa's. Considering the damage one long Lance did to North Carolina I expect you underestimate the damage Iowa would have received from 3 hits. She likely survives but misses the rest of the war.
USS Yorktown was a great ship she serve her country proudly. I love the Iowa class battleships they are a testament of what our country can build. Battleships are made to take a pounding but they’re only steel a class or more is very good but they can only take so much also so I do not know
Short answer, no. Battleships are far better armored and protected, and have far better damage control capabilities. The Yorktown class were purpose-built carriers and thus lacked the heavy armor of a battleship or even a converted battlecruiser. New Jersey was a WW2 era battleship built with the lessons learned from the late interwar North Carolina and South Dakota class. The levels of protection and damage control just cannot be compared.
Yorktown was a tough lady, the class was tougher than they appear on paper. All three absorbed incredible damage before being totally knocked out. EDIT: Yes, I know Enterprise survived the war. She was in Bremerton Navy Yard being put back together yet again after a Kamikazi had mission killed her off Okinawa by blasting the forward centerline aircraft elevator out of the ship. That couldn't be repaired at sea even by Big E's Damage Control miracle workers. I wonder if any Enterprise engineer was an ancestor of Montgomery Scott.
They were fine ships that did their job. I believe, however, the armored flight decks of British carriers were a better choice than the fragile and flammable wooded decks of American carriers. I have always believed the reasoning behind the USN carriers light decks had more to do with prewar conceptions of how carriers would be used than with any idea that wooden decks were better. Prewar, carriers were not yet widely regarded as capital ships, and were not expected to be placed often in harm's way. They were envisioned as being used in a subordinate and supporting role to battleships.
I think NJ would have survived the same air attacks, given her armoured deck, lack of potentially hazardous aircraft, and especially her much more formidable AA battery. She likely would have taken damage, but not enough to sink. Many of the attacking aircraft were shot down by both Yorktown and her task force. Those Japanese planes had to fight through an already heavy AA barrage before even getting close enough to drop their ordnance. The submarine torpedoes would most likely have caused severe damage, but given what I said before about the air attacks, she likely would not be in the same situation in the first place.
Yorktown was wounded before it fought in Midway. But it did its job, and any battle where you lose one carrier and sink 4 of the enemies is a major victory.
You mentioned in a previous video, that the japanese air planes dropped special armor piercing bombs on hornet, during the last attack. would new jersey survive what took out hornet.?
Yorktown absolutely deserves the praise you heap upon her, particularly since you make clear the remarkable efforts of the damage control crew - any vessel is more than just steel or wood, after all.
She was tougher than she had any right to be, certainly.
Were I a sailor I'd probably prefer to be on one of the British Illustrious class, which were absurdly tough, simply because you could almost garuantee they'd get you home safe.
But if I couldn't be on a ship i was sure could survive attack, i'd be happy with a ship that endured long enough to save most of her crew before she died.
OFC in an ideal world you'd want British armoured decks with American aviation capacity, but no one could manage that until after the war.
The Achilles Heel of the Yorktown class carriers was that the 2 engines rooms were right next to each other. The torpedo hit between the two and knocked out both engine rooms. This was solved in the Essex class carriers.
To be fair though. The Yorktown and Enterprise were built to fit within the Washington Naval Treaty limits. Hornet was built on a time limit. So it’s more the fact that it was outside factors that bought it on. Not inexperience or neglect. Nonetheless The fact that the IJN expended a lot of effort into sinking Yorktown and Hornet. Plus Enterprise at a couple of points being reduced to a barely functioning wreck is a credit to their design.
I’ve spoken to a friend of mine who was on the Yorktown at the battle of coral sea and at midway. He was a teenager on the ship and he told me the damage taken at coral sea was a factor in it sinking in the battle of midway. When I was young he didn’t speak very often about his time on this ship. But as he aged he often spoke about the ship and showed us some of his photos. Unlike many young people serving in the navy at the time he did not enjoy shore leave and preferred staying on ethe ship. But most of all he simply loved being at sea.
During the battle he worked on the anti aircraft guns. I suspect because he was very young I think he supplied ammo and worked the damage control efforts. After the ship was first abandoned he did return to the ship work on repair crews.
Sadly he died several years ago.
@Chandler White In addition he told me he happened to have been in the engine room when it first took damage during the battle of the coral sea. For what ever reason at the battle of midway he maned the antiaircraft weapons.
Yes Hannah,he was right.Dad was on The Yorktown CV5.An EM1 he also handled Ammo for gun number 1.Many men were cross trained to man the guns if necessary.The Coral Sea damage was very bad.Bulkheads were warped very badly and shrapnel went everywhere.Dad was in the forward elevator pump room down in the bottom of the ship very close to where the forward bomb hit was.Trapped by a seized scuttle they almost died from the smoke.In 1993 I introduced the damage repair party that couldn't get to them to them at a reunion in Denver.(Awkward)Dad said on the way back to Pearl he hammered wooden plugs into shrapnel holes as he rigged temporary lighting in the damaged areas.Bulkhead doors were replaced or welded shut and or even taken off.more were replaced at Pearl.The ships water tight integrity was badly compromised.The ship had missed four or more overhauls.Her boilers were wore out and her turbines too.Her superheaters for her boilers were damaged and couldn't be used so she couldn't get the 33knots she needed,plus alot more.
@@hannahmich7342 If he was handling 1.1" or .5" guns, likely he was serving in the Marine Cor. Just curious, what he was doing - as such - in the engine room during the battle?
@@model-man7802 This is so interesting, thank you for sharing!
I like CV-6 better because of the whole "Enterprise versus Japan" incident, but you have to give credit to a ship which survives 3 of it's 4 "sinkings."
Here comes Saratoga, back from repairs! And there goes Saratoga, going to get more repairs...
@@MrFleem USS torpedo magnet?
@@ronmaximilian6953 yes
I think the Yorktowns were definitely the most valuable carriers of the time. Not because of their contributions, which are still legendary, but because of the lessons learned from them. The Yorktowns paved way for the Essexs. The lessons learned from Yorktown and Hornet made it so no Essex was ever lost in combat.
Yorktown herself was thought to be sunk multiple times, leading the Japanese to think they sunk all 3 of her class. She fought to the last. And so did Hornet. These ships took an insane amount of damage before sinking. Its still almost a criminal offense that they didn't preserve the only survivor of her class, given the contributions they made to US naval superiority of the war. A damn shame.
I completely agree with you. It was a crime and iniquity, to not preserve Enterprise. Big, big cultural and historical loss. The biggest of them all.
Well, in a way, two of them did survive. But, Yorktown is under three miles of water, and Hornet is God knows where.
Paul Stillwell's team found Hornet
No us carrier has been lost since World War II because no us carrier has fallen under concentrated heavy enemy attack since World War II.
@@justsoicanfingcomment5814 while that is true, today's aircraft carriers are able to withstand massive hits and stay afloat. If you haven't watched it already, you should look up the USS America. It is insane what that ship took before she sunk.
Given how many lives Yorktown seemed to have, are we sure she was actually a ship and not a cat?
I should hope she at least had a ship's cat
Cats are bad luck on a ship. Or that's the story anyway.
I'm offended
@@SOU6900 KMS Bismarck had a cat, which was rescued after Bismarck's sinking, The cat was placed on HMS Ark Royal , which was then torpedoed and sunk by a U-boat . The cat got revenge !
@@BattleshipMan_ I mean... you have cat attached to your hip, essentially.
The Yorktown’s were very good ships and proved to be very durable. Their unfortunate Achilles heel however was they boiler/engine room lay out with everything concentrated. Had they been built with an alternating engine room and boiler room configuration I’m convinced that both Yorktown and Hornet would have not been immobilized and thus would have survived.
Many newer U.S. cruisers employed the alternating boiler and engine room design for just the reasons you mentioned. I believe this was first implemented with the St. Louis class cruisers, which provided the template for future USN light and heavy cruisers. The last of that line, the Newport News class, were probably some of the most survivable ships of their era short of a battleship.
My favorite ship covered! She was one of the reasons why I became interested in American history and learned to always pay attention to the individual stories associated with events. Great work as always.
First 15 minutes are a love letter to CV-5. Well done. Yah and Japanese torpedoes worked, ours didn't. Good thing we had bombers.
I'd say, thank God we had SBD Dauntless. Arguably the best dive-bombers of world war two. Much better than their successors, Helldivers
Interesting. I actually flew off of the 2nd Yorktown (CVS-10) after she was returned to the Atlantic in 1969 as part of the air group deployed aboard her in the summer of 1969. While we enjoyed all the WestPac goodies (the Pacific fleet had more money so the Yorktown had a lot of air conditioned spaces that the USS Randolph (CVS-15 and our previous ship) did not have. The interaction of the air group and ships company was not nearly as good, however. When they brought Yorktown around the horn (angle deck carriers could no longer go through the Panama Canal) only 1/3 of her crew came with her. To that about 1/3 of the crew from the Randolph was transferred and the remainder of the crew was new. The old crew didn't want to be there and the us vs them between them and the Randolph crew didn't help.
But, she's a good ship and I'm glad she survived the cutting torch unlike the Randolph. When I was going through flight training and the topic of carriers came up our instructor drew a thin chalk line down the board and commented that on a carrier that is what separated you from the sea. A little exaggerated, but not by much. The story of the CV-5 Yorktown was still held in awe by the Navy sea dogs when I was in the Navy (1965-1970).
I have 100% agreement with Yorktown as one of my favourite ships. Quickly repaired and plays a pivotal role in the battle of midway (both in the attack and defence). The war might have turned out quite differently without this one ship.
CV-5 wasn't repaired. Her wound on the side was just patched by a huge plate of steel, and her bulging bulkheads were just propped by timber beams. There was no time for repairs.
We need a CVN named Yorktown.
And another one named Hornet.
The USN missed a golden opportunity to name CVN-81 Yorktown. Doris Miller was a great American, a verifiable hero, but that’s a name for a destroyer or frigate, not a carrier.
@@cassidy109 He also died aboard a carrier in 1943.
@@cassidy109 Also missed opportunity to name CVN-81 and CVN-82 as Yorktown and Hornet
CVN-82 hasn't been named. The Ticonderoga class cruiser was decommissioned and scrapped, so the name is available.
Been on CV10 quite a bit. CV10 and Ft Sumter were some of my favorite things about Charleston. Personally I think CV5 is a under appreciated.
My grandfaughter was a young boy during wwi. he saw men broken by poison gas and trench warfare. my dad memorized the eye test to join ww2. he went from being a milk truck driver to a warrant officer would was an expert on automatic transmissions of sherman tanks. similar things happened to my uncle in korean war. we are facing a fourth turning where our young people will face similar challenges as our greatest generation. thank you for keeping their memory alive and hopefully this will be a insperation to our young people.
CV-2 Lexington is my favorite carrier. I just love the look of her and Saratoga. It's really sad that she was sunk so early but the lessons in damage control learned then greatly helped the other carriers.
My brother in law, served on the Yorktown during the Vietnam war era.
He said they would launch cars off of the catapult. It would fly 1/4 of a mile.
Did it matter if the car had fins?
Wrong ship. CV5 sank in 1942.
Yeah... I’ve heard the same. Here’s the thing, why would they have a car on board? Where are they launching it? What purpose would that serve?
In other words, no, they didn’t.
@@SkeeterPondRC Actually they did launch some but that was old Navy. EPA would scream if they did that today. When a carrier is redeployed to a new homeport, it often redeploys its crew as well. To speed and ease the transition, the Navy will load the crew’s belongs and vehicles onto the carrier to speed up the moving process and make it less stressful. After all, you have something the size of a small city relocating. It can easily accommodate hundreds of vehicles at no cost to itself to carry them save for the time to load them and unload them. They have done similar tests with the Gerald Ford. More of a test sled on that one though. You don't want to launch a multi-million dollar aircraft and crew without making sure the cat works.
CV-10 Yorktown, not the carrier the video is about.
The Midway class was the last gasp at the huge funnels, just those ships were much larger, so the island/funnel didn’t look abnormally large like on a Yorktown class carrier.
I have been to Yorktown and Missouri. I would say that New Jersey would have survived the damage but would have been in dry dock for a while. Yorktown is worthy of the praise you have given that class of ships.
There are 2 different USS Yorktown aircraft carriers the CV-5 the one lost at the Battle of Midway and the later CV-10.
How long were you able to hold your breath when you visited Yorktown?
@@oafdawg314
Context matters.
I have been to the CV-10 Yorktown and the other ships at Patriot's Point many times over the years. I got to spend two nights on board when I was in high school. The ship holds great sentimental value for me, not just for all the history there, but the good times spent there with family and friends. Definitely worth the visit for people who are down that way.
The Yorktowns may not have looked like much, but hot damn if they weren't some of the tankiest tanks to ever tank
I've been patriots point and fort sumpter so it's a first class experience. So much to take in.
I think Ryan's assessment is on point and reasonable to say Yorktown was a true warrior
The thing about the naval treaty limiting tonnage, how much straight up lying went on with that? Seems it would be in every country's best interest to understate the displacement of their ships.
we didnt wait long lol the Lexingtons were given the tonnage allowed by the treaty to them despite it being a provision for older ships to add 3000 tons of extra defenses onto existing ships not a new conversion so even we were guilty of cheating the system lol
Hypothesis:
The countries who had no interest in obeying could use that as a reason to plan out their future fleet. Those who were trying to avoid war (America) probably liked the justification to save money.
1) There are other reasons for USN torpedo squadrons to fly with smaller numbers than the other squadrons in US carrier air groups besides their vulnerability in their attack run. Torpedo aircraft were simply larger than other aircraft on carrier decks. This was particularly noted when the TBF/TBM Avenger came into service (the after-action report form USS _Enterprise_ after Eastern Solomons made special note that VT squadrons needed to be reduced due to the difficulty of moving the big new Grummans around the hangar and flight decks), but even the TBD was significantly bigger than the SBD (not to mention the F4F). And of course TBD numbers were additionally restricted because of the limited production run of that type of aircraft.
2) How would USS _New Jersey_ have held up against the detonation of USS _Hamman's_ load of depth charges close aboard? That might be more damaging than the actual torpedoes fired by _I-168_ (and _maaaay_ have been the final blow that resulted in USS _Yorktown_ sinking).
Enterprise (CV-6) will always be a legend, but the story of Yorktown (CV-5) is on the same level as the great stories from ancient times of men who are larger than life doing deeds beyond that of mere mortal men.
There was a book called "No higher honor. USS Yorktown and the battle of Midway." Admiral Halsey was quoted "There are no extraordinary men, only normal men under extraordinary circumstances."
Uss enterprise was stateside in late 1942 and early 1943 , among the additions was a torpedo blister , also too she was the first fully operational night carrier and did the first night sortie from a carrier
First fully operational US night carrier and did the first US night sortie from a carrier*
@@huskythedinosaur1592 you could also add that the name enterprise had twice the distinction of having CVN , CVN 6 because of the first fully operational night carrier and CVN 65 for the first carrier vessel nuclear ,
In my opinion, surviving damage is not all about the design of the ship. The damage control training of the crew plays a HUGE role in determining survival or sinking. (I.E. USS Lexington vs USS Franklin.)
Can't wait for a chance to see the USS New Jersey (BB-62). Beautiful ship.
A side note to the repair efforts to get Yorktown turned around in 72 hours, the arc welders were working there butts off as you said 24/7 and people were complaining about brownouts in the Pearl harbor area. Folks there is a flipping war on don't believe me come look at the USS Arizona over here. By the way that's why there's oil on top of the water all over Pearl harbor!
Seeing oil still floating up to the surface from the USS Arizona was a powerful and moving experience.
Incredible history... unimaginable to be in that situation.
I love learning about history.
Good job Ryan, you are getting really getting good at this. Congrats.
One thing that's kind of worth considering is that if an Iowa was at Midway and did try to close the distance to engage the Japanese carriers with its guns, it's possible it would have wound up fighting Yamato, which was present but did not engage for obvious reasons. A fast battleship barreling towards the Japanese carrier force would likely have prompted a response in kind from the Japanese battleship forces present to protect the carriers. Of course, instead, it could wind up being an Iowa laying the smackdown on Haruna and Kirishima.
the iwoas were good but the sheer punishment a yamato had to take to die was impossibly mind boggling. although the old girls never had that what if....my moneys on Yamato in a 1 on 1 fight
@@redeyedwithanger5866 I'll take your money and the Iowa class. In the Midway scenario, 1 Iowa vs 1 Yamato with accompanying air attacks from the remaining carriers. Oh yah, there were no Japanese carriers left. Musashi and Yamato proved themselves defenseless against air attack.
Yorktown class were tough as hell ships.
Despite having to fit within the Washington Naval Treaty limits.
@@ph89787 a good comparison with a contemporary, Arc Royal. 1 torpedo vs 4 and the bomb hits.
@@JohnRodriguesPhotographer To be fair on Ark Royal. The chances of her surviving would have been greater. If the Royal Navy’s response to a U-Boat attack on one of their carriers is to abandon ship. The worst part about it was that the sinking of Courageous and Eagle contributed to that thinking.
@@ph89787 there was a major design flaw in the compartmentalization of the engineering spaces. Plus the hatches left open when they abandoned ship all contributed her loss. But Yorktown settled, a little, but did not sink with no one on board.
@@ph89787 both captains abandoned ship early because of concerns about capsizing. The design flaw was part of the compromises in the design for the Washington naval treaty. The engineering spaces weren't compartmentalized longitudely just laterally. So damage on one side would flood both sides of a compartment. Keep in mind also Yorktown had two torpedo hits compared to Arc Royal single torpedo hit. Again her torpedo hit was compounded by the design and all the hatches being left open. I can only assume Yorktown dogged the hatches.
The Yorktown and more specifically the crew definitely deserve the praise placed upon them.
I’ve been on Yorktown (CV-10) and Hornet (CV-12).
WRT 2 Yorktowns for 1 Iowa, the better comparison is how many Essex CVs to 1 Iowa, as they both classes were being built at the same time. Yorktown and Enterprise were already launched before any Iowa was even authorized!
Her spirit and the tenacity, skill, and drive of her men kept her going.
Great vid. As usual sounded right on the money, especially the counter-factual on the I-Boat being able to torp the BB. The Chicago Piano 1.1" AA vs. the Japanese 25mm : Like comparing broccoli to asparagus (both cooked by your great aunt Vivian, boiled way too long & served without butter.. not even the dog will take it under the table). Was surprised to hear they liked to keep the Brownings around: Whether the enemy be torp or dive bombers, you can't kill them with .30 or .50 cal's before they drop their ordinance (so the point is rather moot). I guess it made them feel better? Later in the war I am sure they would not have been allowed to since all hands were needed for the 20 and 40's.
The tracers were pretty good at disrupting formations and attacks. They weren't a real threat to the planes bit I'm sure it wouldn't feel that way if you're flying an aluminum can at 100 miles per hour a couple hundred yards above the surface of the ocean when suddenly a line of tracers cuts vaguely across your path.
@Chandler White right, and flack guns were worthless because they didn't stop the V-2s.
@Chandler White cool story. Also irrelevant.
@Chandler White oh, so you still think that flack was useless and a waste of time and money since they didn't stop the v2s? Sorry but we'll have to agree to disagree on that, facts don't care about your feelings or your inability to understand the facts that a tools inability to stop a threat it was never intended to deal with in the first place cold in its tracks doesn't mean that it's completely useless. If you would actually bothered reading the comment you were replying to and understanding what was being said in the first place then you would know that. as I have already pointed out a couple of times, according to your reasoning slack was useless since it didn't stop the V-2s. I guess Sherman tanks were useless since they didn't stop Bismarck. Obviously Yamato was useless, it didn't stop Japan from being nuked! You believe some wacky stuff my dude.
I'm awed all over again every time I read/hear about Yorktown's incredible resilience. Hats off to her damage control parties for their excellence, and to the ship & her whole crew for embodying the fiercely defiant, never-say-quit American fighting spirit.
The Yorktown "acquiring" extra AA guns sounds like your fellow museum ship Olympia "acquiring" a couple gatling guns and a crap ton of personal firearms in the pre-dreadnought era.
Thoroughly Enjoyable and Informative - Thank you sir.
Here is an idea for the “would the Battleship New Jersey survive” series with a more modern twist. How about would the New Jersey survive what sank the six British ships during the Falklands War.
There were a variety of causes, either free fall 500lb bombs, or in two cases, Exocet. NJ would almost certainly have survived the bombs, because of her armour. Not sure about the exocet, I guess it depends on where it might have impacted.
New Jersey didn't have an aluminum superstructure like the HMS Sheffield et al. Steel has a much higher melting point (1200 vs 2600 F).
One of the things that wasn't repaired in the emergency dry docking at Pearl harbor was her watertight integrity. They knew that there was damaged to the integrity and she could possibly suffer uncontrollable flooding if there was penetrations below the water line. That is why Captain buckmaster abandoned ship what we know today as too early.
I have visited the CV-10. I have also visited the Intrepid and Midway. I think in terms of a museum ship the CV-10 is the least impressive. I did really like this video, I learned a lot about the CV-5 Yorktown that I did not know. Always great information. Thanks Ryan!
Ships that sink more than a few hundred feet almost always right themselves before hitting bottom; once everything is flooded all things become more or less equal again and they return to the right way up as designed.
You neglect to take in the fact that 17 Val dive bombers were sent by the Hiryu to avenge the strikes on the three other Japanese carriers, and had they encountered the New Jersey instead of the Yorktown, who had her combat air patrol alerted to the approaching threat and were waiting, the New Jersey would have had to face the best dive bomber squadron the Kido Butai had at that time, and probably would have sustained more bomb hits than the three they made on Yorktown. Plus, the ten Kate torpedo bombers that followed shortly afterwards would most likely have made more than two strikes against the New Jersey. Combined with the torpedoes that came from the Japanese submarine the following day, I'm thinking that the New Jersey would not have survived.
The New jersey would have not sunk, or even been inoperable with two fish and a few bombs.The Yorktown was a definite fighter, and fought till the end, I think if sh had a BB alongside and a few more tin cans for protection she would have survived to fight another day, same goes for the Mighty Hornet!
Just a very few months after Midway the two North Carolina class BBs were available, and the guys in Enterprise LOVED the North Carolina because of that massive forest of anti-aircraft artillery she brought to the fight. One sailor in Enterprise wrote of the first time NC opened up in defense of Big E, "I thought at first she (NC) had exploded." Not certain but at that point in the war (Guadalcanal) NC was still armed with 1.1" Chicago Pianos, she would swap those for twin and quad 40mm while under repair after the torpedo poked a big hole in her bow.
There were none around , we only had 3 carriers for the battle of Midway
I looked this up. The first fletcher class destroyers were commissioned in May 1942. Would have been great to have their AA capabilities a few months earlier.
Did you forget the Battle Wagons were still at Pearl Harbor ?
@@lorenotrambo9551 actually from what I had read, the battle ships had deployed to the West Coast and they had 5 of them active there. Most of them would have been too slow to keep up with the carriers though. New Jersey would not have that problem of course.
9:35 I believe the correct or more accurate term would be "requisitioning"...when the intent is to give one's own ship (or unit) a step up from what might have otherwise been.
I've got a request about some of the test rounds for the 16" rifles. I've only seen a tiny bit about sabot-sub-munitions. Super high velocity, super high ballistic coefficient and sectional density, and correspondingly long range. While still packing more punch than the 12" fired by the Alaskas.
ALSO, could a VT fuse have been fitted to a 16" HC round for use in shore bombardment in the way it was used in the battle of the bulge?
I'd like to hear more about this as well.
Same here ! : )
Good questions!
New VT Shells were added during 1980s - 1990s Deployments
HE-CVT Mark 143 - 1,900 lbs. (862 kg)
Before this however, there were VT-HC shells in use from aprox~ 1944 until 45, and the USN even came up with AAA charts for the 16"/50 guns.
Ryan, I’m pretty sure I’ve visited Yorktown twice as well but my visits were back in the nineties. I really enjoyed exploring her back then. I was so afraid I missed certain displays that I made a second trip within a few years. I remember heading out of an exit on the superstructure and was met with rust perforation on a walkway. I was kind of alarmed that it wasn’t repaired by the time of the second visit. Hopefully their maintenance budget has improved so it hasn’t allowed that wonderful ship to deteriorate any further.
I didn’t notice anything like that on New Jersey, thankfully, but then it also has more robust metal thickness. Maybe I could make a return trip to the ships moored on the east coast along with some I couldn’t visit due to the pandemic. It would be a great trip to make to celebrate these great ships.
I agree with what you said. If it wasn't for that Japanese submarine I think they would have put Yorktown back together and it would have gone the distance like Enterprise did. I know good old what ifs
I love all your videos. Thank you so much.
the only ship of that period rather than the Shokaku class that was a similarly good but flawed design to the Yorktowns was the singleton HMS Ark Royal
While the loss of the Yorktown was very tragic and along with carrier hornet spelled out a bleak time for the US Navy during 1942 and early 1943 the bigger tragedy is that the New Jersey did not get to go up against the Yamato
I so seriously want to meet this young man, and lure him and his ships down south. lol He is awesome.
The. Damage control on Yorktown was great and was super human
I grew up in Mt.Pleasant. Patriots Point was the best thing about living there. I’ve explored every part of the Yorktown I could, including the flashlight tour, shhh, don’t tell. First time I ever got to go, the N.S. Savannah was there! The other highlight of Mt.P is Palmetto Islands County Park.
"Yorktown almost survived what sunk Yorktown"... Exactly. Not a lot of margin their to get to survivable for an Iowa class. I think your analysis is spot on.
Yorktown carriers only sink when they feel like sinking despite whatever the world has to say about the matter
I had the opportunity to see CV10 about 20 years ago. Have also seen Midway.
According to the Japanese, Yorktown CV-5 was sunk four times--once during the Battle of the Coral Sea, twice during the Battle of Midway, and then one final time by submarine-fired torpedoes. True, between the first and second "sinkings" Yorktown pulled into Pearl Harbor for hasty repairs and to embark replacement aircraft and fliers.
Could the New Jersey have survived being sunk four times?
I learned several things from this video.
This is excellent! Thank you. You do good work.
I think that Yorktown deserves every bit of the praise you've given, she was one tough ship to take that much damage before finally sinking. My gut feeling is that New Jersey would have survived what sank Yorktown. Thanks for the great episode!
Navweaps website has an article suggesting that the Iowa class was extremely resistant to capsizing and were designed to "sink straight down," meaning the risk of capsizing was minimized.
SoDak absorbed an immense amount of close range damage at Guadalcanal, and she is often compared to Bismarck as far as damage sustained.
Since the Iowas are supposed to be enlarged and faster SoDak's, stands to reason they can easily absorb any damage any given carrier suffered throughout the war... except maybe Shinano lol
The Yorktown crew performed magnificently.
If the New Jersey had been present it would have been accompanied by a significant escort fleet of destroyers etc. which may have further protected the Yorktown.
The support fleet may be an interesting topic for a future video.
I've crawled through Yorktown at Patriots Point. A VERY hot metal tub in the sun. But, worth the sweat!
my uncle died on the Yorktown. He was a Petty Officer.
Enterprise really should've been saved as a museum.
What are those airplanes at 21:00? They don't look like anything Yorktown ever carried.
The Yorktown class thought the US NAVY how to reinforce a ship during the build so the ship can go on
I love watching the old school midway movie but how close are they to portraying their real life counterparts is there any real good books that’s does a good comparison between all the Pacific commander?
I'm also interested to know
The 1976 one?
I visited CV-10 in 1996. She was in good shape then; hope she still is.
Nobody's visited the wreck of the Yorktown (CV-5) since 1998 I've read.
I wonder what shape she's in now?
I think they complement each other greatly the Iowa-class battleships with the Yorktown carriers the perfect combination
What the York town did was. A hell of a job. And. Their air gourp was. Great
The should make a movie just about Yorktown.
The American carriers were unarmored,unlike the British carriers which had 3 inches of deck armor.
The Battleships were massively armored with multiple levels of deck armor from plunging ap shells.
A battle wagon was designed to take many hits from large caliber shells.
Ryan, would you consider looking at the USS Oklahoma and the USS Gambier Bay?
Oklahoma th-cam.com/video/IWuFeA3K17U/w-d-xo.html
The scrounge!!! Your in deep poo without one! Not stealing, improvising, adapting and overcome!
When did the Japanese realize they sank the same ship 4 times, and how much did that demoralize them , and the Yorktown story is inspiring the ship that refused to sink
It's really not hard to make the argument that the Yorktown-class triplets single handedly won the Pacific War, or perhaps less bombastically, that they were the single most effective class of WW2 (and arguably of any war before or since). Just these three ships almost single handedly stopped the Japanese expansion.
They were lucky as hell the bomb that went down the stack not blowing up the boilers. All these men deserved our honor.
While I still consider the scrap of CV-6 (The original Enterprise, Big-E) to be the biggest crime against humanity, the Yorktown (CV-5) was also a miracle ship IMO. How many times did the Japanese put her out of commission or "sink" her only to have her right back in their faces days later -- while I'm sure they had other priorities, it is quite frustrating they didn't escort her back to Pearl with an impressive fleet of escorts to hunt subs like the one that sank her along with the ship tending her. Some of her magic maybe that she was converted from a battlecruiser, but she also featured John Thatch who was key in giving the F4F Wildcat's a fighting chance against the zeros -- and more than a fighting chance in his encounters. Beyond that, the damage control teams and the entire crew of that ship were possibly some of our best assets in the war. Even in her last days she was amazing taking massive damage from one strike only to be perceived as an undamaged, different carrier by the next Japanese strike not long after -- which in effect allowed her to sacrifice herself in a significantly damaged state, likely preserving Enterprise and Hornet from that strike had they not realized they were attacking a damaged carrier. It is also a testament to the ship herself that so few of her crew were lost in the multi-stage, multi-day process of sinking her that finally sent her to the bottom.
Not a battlecruiser conversion, that was Lexington and Saratoga as well as the Brit Courageous, Glorious and Furious.
With hindsight in mind, of course carriers were the better investment BUT as I love to point out, in the first Battleship vs Carrier battle, the carrier lost.
the carriers worked out their kinks and quirks in ww2 and took over from the battleships the title queen of the seas sad but time marches on for man and machine nothing stays static
"Tough little ship", "little.....???"
Star trek first contact.
The courage those pilots had to fly a torpedo bomber attack is on the level of a kamikaze.
When you're the last one or two damn carriers standing between the USA and the Empire of Japan (in what was proving to be an air-power war), I would imagine they could have requisitioned just about anything extra that wasn't dangerous to the ship and which had ANY chance of giving her additional survivability. Once they loose their planes into the air, that carrier's value to the navy and in that immediate battle is nearly zero until such time those planes need a place to land and refuel/rearm. If carriers were ever expected to perform every role possible, they wouldn't travel around in such huge task forces. They'd travel solo. Actively pinging for submarines tells the submarines exactly where you are. I think the task force was spread too thin. If the carrier had a couple destroyers riding along both sides, they'd have likely been the ones to absorb the torpedo...which is exactly the role they're expected to perform even today. As sick as it is, the smaller ship crews are EXPECTED to sacrifice their lives (or at least their ships) in an effort to protect the larger more expensive ships.
Hammann did take one of the torpedoes and arguably just made things worse when her depth charges went off
While I am biased toward Enterprise myself the Yorktown Class as a whole deserves every ounce of praise they get, as they successfully prosecuted the first half of the war with dignity and honor. I still feel we dishonored all those ships sacrifices by allowing Enterprise to be scrapped as she and her sisters truly embodied the American spirit.
Combat patches to the flight deck often involved bolting down boiler plate over the hole.
Yorktown was far more valuable than any of the Iowas, they ended up as over expensive anti-aircraft gun platforms escorting carriers. Once they entered service their designed fast fleet action role was long gone.
Japanese sinks Yorktown. Enterprise: So, you have chosen... death!
i never understood why iowa had a 1.5 inch external deck and 6 inch internal would have thought that would have been the other way around would have thought that would be adding extra damage control and maintenance
Dont forget
After coral sea yortown got nitrogen purge system for AV gas while at pearl harbor
If memory serves USS Yorktown cv5 was heavily damaged before she sank she had been repaired to get her operational but still from understanding for a large part of the damage she had had from the previous battle it's probably why she thinks so easy the second time she saw combat.
Due purely to experience, Yorktown's damage control teams were likely way better than Iowa's. Considering the damage one long Lance did to North Carolina I expect you underestimate the damage Iowa would have received from 3 hits. She likely survives but misses the rest of the war.
USS Yorktown was a great ship she serve her country proudly. I love the Iowa class battleships they are a testament of what our country can build. Battleships are made to take a pounding but they’re only steel a class or more is very good but they can only take so much also so I do not know
Man! New Jersey's sure a good lookin' old gal!
Short answer, no. Battleships are far better armored and protected, and have far better damage control capabilities. The Yorktown class were purpose-built carriers and thus lacked the heavy armor of a battleship or even a converted battlecruiser. New Jersey was a WW2 era battleship built with the lessons learned from the late interwar North Carolina and South Dakota class. The levels of protection and damage control just cannot be compared.
Good analysis.
The real question is, What would Sank Gambier Bay Have Sank New Jersey?
(or whichever CVE was sunk by Yamato)
Yorktown was a tough lady, the class was tougher than they appear on paper. All three absorbed incredible damage before being totally knocked out.
EDIT: Yes, I know Enterprise survived the war. She was in Bremerton Navy Yard being put back together yet again after a Kamikazi had mission killed her off Okinawa by blasting the forward centerline aircraft elevator out of the ship. That couldn't be repaired at sea even by Big E's Damage Control miracle workers. I wonder if any Enterprise engineer was an ancestor of Montgomery Scott.
They were fine ships that did their job. I believe, however, the armored flight decks of British carriers were a better choice than the fragile and flammable wooded decks of American carriers.
I have always believed the reasoning behind the USN carriers light decks had more to do with prewar conceptions of how carriers would be used than with any idea that wooden decks were better.
Prewar, carriers were not yet widely regarded as capital ships, and were not expected to be placed often in harm's way. They were envisioned as being used in a subordinate and supporting role to battleships.
I think NJ would have survived the same air attacks, given her armoured deck, lack of potentially hazardous aircraft, and especially her much more formidable AA battery. She likely would have taken damage, but not enough to sink.
Many of the attacking aircraft were shot down by both Yorktown and her task force. Those Japanese planes had to fight through an already heavy AA barrage before even getting close enough to drop their ordnance.
The submarine torpedoes would most likely have caused severe damage, but given what I said before about the air attacks, she likely would not be in the same situation in the first place.
Yorktown was wounded before it fought in Midway. But it did its job, and any battle where you lose one carrier and sink 4 of the enemies is a major victory.
You mentioned in a previous video, that the japanese air planes dropped special armor piercing bombs on hornet, during the last attack. would new jersey survive what took out hornet.?