I’ve had both. I like the 6bbl just incase you get a little two rowdy. It’s way cheaper. People expect less from the 440 and it’s way easier to win more money. Make the race long enough for the hemi to get to its sweet spot or it won’t go as planned. Either one will school gsx 455 Buick don’t listen to the hype I’ve seen it done. Lol
I traded to get a car bought at police auction in the 80's. It was a '72 fury III police car with a 440 6 pack. Learned later the motor came from a '70. What a beast off the line. Would pass anything in the area, except a gas station.
There was a desire to use hydraulic lifters in the 426 Street Hemi in 1968, but Chrysler was unsure how the lifters would wear with the Street Hemi valve springs. They developed low taper lifters and a matching camshaft and assembled them in one 1968 Charger R/T and one 1968 GTX, with the six barrel intake and Holley carbs from the tri-power 427 Corvette. The two cars were given to two Chrysler execs to drive daily for 12 months, then Chrysler examined the camshafts and lifters from those two cars. Chrysler still didn't want to risk hydraulic lifters in the 426 Street Hemi without more testing. The 1969 A12 cars were marketed to see if any excessive lifter wear occurred. After the 1969 A12 cars, it was decided to use hydraulic lifters in the 1970 426 Street Hemi. The Six Pack connecting rods were originally designed for the 1964 Chrysler 300K, with the optional 390 horsepower, solid lifter, cross ram 413 engine. The standard 64 300K engine was a 360 hp 413. Chrysler designed a 383 Six Pack for 1971, but it wasn't ready in time for certification. It was then planned to make a 1972 Six Pack 400 with high compression, but the low compression requirement of the 1972 killed the 72 400 Six Pack engine. All three Six Pack intakes sold by Edelbrock were designed by Chrysler. The stated size difference between the 427 tri-power carbs and the Mopar Six Pack carbs is due to the CFM being measured using 4 barrel flow for the Chevy carbs and 2 barrel flow for the Mopar carbs. They are the same size carbs. I have a photo of a prototype Six Pack 383 engine. The 1963 Chrysler 300J engine was rated at 390 horsepower, but has standard weight connecting rods. Some 1970 440-6 engine got aluminum intakes, but most were sold in Florida, as the 1969 aluminum intakes had cold weather complaints.
The 'CFM flow' of the carbs was rated by Holley the manufacturer of the carburetors. 2bbl's were rated at 3" of Hg and 4bbl's at 1.5" of Hg. 2bbl rating to 4bbl rating would be (for example) 1350 x .7071 = 954.585 cfm. The 1969 1/2 A12 cars had a standard 440 Magnum valvetrain as evidenced by the single bolt nylon coated cam drive. The cam, lifters and springs, were standard HP parts. They went to the 3 bolt double roller Hemi cam drive in 1970 in part because of the 310 lb Hemi valve springs. The Magnum springs were 256 lb. As far as those intakes, there were 2 manufactured by Edelbrock. The CH6B which was the Edelbrock made manifold used in 1969 production and for the "Hustle Stuff/DC' parts program and had 'CHRY 3412046' cast into it. The later Chrysler cast iron manifold, also initially offered via 'Hustle Stuff' (1970), was PN 2946275. The DP6B Low Deck manifold was only used through 'Hustle Stuff/DC' and was PN P3571051. As far as aluminum vs cast iron usage, had nothing to do with weather. (The aluminum intakes came with heat riser passages just like the iron ones). It was production and economics. It was faster and cheaper for Chrysler to produce the manifold in-house for higher production volume than to risk delays outsourcing. Initially when they rolled out the iron manifolds for the 1970 MY, being a new part, there were some problems with casting porosity and oil usage. Those '6bbl' rods are different than the Max Wedge rods and have a way higher 'forging' number. The Max Wedge rods, PN 2406886, had a bigger beam section at the small end, vs the '6bbl' rod 2951906 which had a wider beam all the way to the big end. There was a 'P Part' version of this rod with better metallurgy which had a forging number P4120516. It looked like the 6bbl rod but made of lighter higher strength steel (4140 or 4340) vs the 'std' 1053 of the stockers.
@@vincemajestyk9497 The Six Pack carbs were the same size bore and boosters as the 427 Corvette carbs. Buying the carbs from Holley does get the two barrel flow ratings stated, but the GM sources list the carbs as smaller, due to using 4 barrel level flow rating. I've never seen the Corvette carbs sold directly by Holley and I mean since the 1960's. The 1969 A12 engines did have the low taper lifters, which was the whole point of the limited number of them made. It was to test the wear of the low taper lifters with Street Hemi valve springs, before using them in the 1970 Street Hemi. I know the exhaust crossover is in the Six Pack intake, but there were complaints in cold weather with the aluminum intakes. It was later found the the early Six Pack carbs had a defect or design flaw. Originally it was thought the aluminum intake was the issue. The Six Pack connecting rods are not Max Wedge rods, which were heavier than Six Pack rods. The 1963 Chrysler 300J had a solid lifter 413, with improved intake ports, 1.74" exhaust valves, jam nuts on the adjustable rocker arms, though different from Max Wedge rockers and standard weight connecting rods, rated at 390 HP. The 1964 300K standard 413 was a 360 HP hydraulic lifter engine, but had an optional 390 HP 413, that was the same as the 1963 300J engine, except it had heavier connecting rods, which became the Six Pack rods for 1970. The 440 Magnum valve springs were designed to limit RPM to protect the cast pistons. The 1964 300K 390 HP engine was a limited production option in the beginning of the 1964 model year, which had the connecting rods that would later become the Six Pack rods. The rocker arms and connecting rods were different from the Max Wedge parts. The 1963 300H engine had solid lifters, but had rocker adjusters like the Slant 6, without jam nuts. It's interesting that the later beefed up rockers and connecting rods did differ from the Max Wedge parts. The 426 Street Wedge came out in 1964, but the 300K stuck with the 413 for 1964. The 440 came out in 1966, but the leftover 426 Street Wedge engines became the Dodge and Plymouth police car big engine for early 1966. The "P" part numbers were Mopar Performance parts that did not have any warranty. There was a "P" part number version of the standard weight connecting rod that was made of 4340 steel and a Hemi weight version too, with larger bolts. There was a better intake gasket for the aluminum Six Pack intake, with paper on both sides. The original Six Pack rocker arms were hand picked from standard 440 stamped rockers to meet a minimum required thickness for Six Pack use. TRW sold replacement push rods for the Six Pack 440, but I don't think I've seen a Mopar part number for different Six pack puah rods. Aluminum intakes have problems just due to expanding differently than cast iron. It was thought that outboard carbs didn't get enough heat under them, from the exhaust crossover. The low desk Six pack intake was designed by Chrysler and made by Edelbrock. Chrysler had designed a 383 Six Pack engine for 1971, but it wasn't certified in time for production. I have a photo of a factory prototype. Then there was goin to be a high compression 400 version for 72, but when the high compression was canceled, the Six Pack 400 was scratched from production. That intake was used on factory prototype 383 engines. The photo I have shows an air cleaner assembly that looks similar to the pop up hood scoop type, but shiny, as maybe chromed, but the photo is black and white. The height of the cleaner may be slightly higher too. I bought Stage IV heads in the late 70's. They were made in house by Chrysler, but the later Stage V heads were contracted out. The Hemi weight RB rods came out in the 1970's and I bought the 4340 rods in the 1980's. The 4340 rods were standard weight, not Six Pack weight.
@@vernonslone8627 In the early 1970's, the Edelbrock intakes sold by Mopar Performance / Direct Connection actually had the Mopar "P" part number cast in them from Edelbrock. I've had several of those.
Thanks for dispelling some of these myths, the farther we get from the 60's and 70's the more some of them grow. I know a Hemi in the right state of tune was almost unbeatable but I also seen some pretty fast 6-packs back in the day!
I have a 71 Charger factory 440 six pack 4 speed 4.10 car and a 71 Charger factory Hemi Automatic 3.23. They are both great runners. I haven't taken them to the track, but from seat of the pants, when running them hard, the Hemi is clearly faster. The hemi engine makes much more power, especially up top. The six pack engine makes great midrange power. Both are great, but the hemi is making probably 100 more horsepower. Remember they rated the hemi at 425 hp at 5000 rpm. That was accurate but misleading because peak horsepower was at 6000+ rpm and was closer to 500.
@@johntierno546 It's much simpler than that. Eight barrels beats six. Chrysler had plenty of experience with dual quad 413s but chose the lesser option instead. "Six packs" were common for the highway cruisers of the late 50s and early 60s, when drivers needed the extra power to get around slow trucks on the two lane highways like US 30 and 40. Once the interstate system came to be the trucks had their own lanes and the six packs and dual quad setups were relegated to the hot rodders and racers.
The fact is IF a hemi car and a 6-pack car were exactly the same with the same driver the 6-pack car would win every-time in a quarter mile. Had 2 brothers older than me, both owned Hemi cars and a 6-pack car, I personally owned a 69 Suber Bee 6-pack car and a 67 GTX Hemi car (the GTX had a 70 Hemi engine as the original engine blew-up before I owned the car. Anyway, between my brother's cars and friends who also owned both it is a fact that a 6-pack car will "barely", barley outrun a Hemi car, however, IF one were to run 1350 ish ft instead of 1320 ft a Hemi would drive around a 6-pack car.
Back in 1974 I ordered a Racer Brown SS H 44 cam from Direct Connection and was told that I should also buy a set of 6 pack rocker arms because they were thicker around the ball atea and would keep the push rod from poking threw the rocker. It was a good cam ,worked very well and sounded awesome.
The early Six Pack rockers were standard stamped rockers that were hand picked from regular service rockers, for meeting a minimum required thickness in the pushrod cups. They were sold under another part number after being selected for Six Pack engines. Randomly, standard rockers could be just as thick, but just hadn't been measured for minimum Six Pack thickness. The early 68 340 rockers were thicker than 318 rockers and with their larger diameter spring retainers, the rockers would often contact the retainers. The service bulletin stated the fix was for the dealers to hand grind retainer clearance in the underside of all 16 rockers in the 68 340 engines, that had that problem.
A ton of low end torque isn’t necessarily your friend unless you were running slicks, or raced from a roll. We always used standing starts, and most guys had the biggest tire the could get under the car, air shocks were mandatory. My secret was locally made recap tires, they were skinny, usually 7.75x14. They were super soft, usually white walls, and they didn’t intimidate anyone, but they got the job done. We would take a nice pair off the used tire rack where I worked, mount them on the stock steel rims on Friday, race over the weekend and by Monday they were back on the rack for sale. Sorta like the race on Sunday sell on Monday saying.
It’s not impossible for a 440 to take a Hemi, but the odds are stacked against it, you only have to compare the cylinder heads. There’s an old saying that I’d like to think came out of Chrysler Engineering, If you want to win, you need to plan ahead (a head).
Interesting trivia fact, the six barrel air cleaner will fit a 67 corvette 427 tri power and a 62 thunderbird 406 3-2 barrel setup! I had all 3 at the same time and tried it!
I have a book that states the 440 six barrel cam had the same specs as the 383 magnum. The only difference was the 440 cam used 3 bolts where the 383 cam used 1 bolt.
@@ultimatemusclecar I'm luckily enough to have a real 1970 440 Six pack R/T challenger. I'm pulling the numbers matching drive train to preserve it, and installing the 512 straoker!
I just rebuilt my 70 440-6. I used a high volume oil pump and deep 7 qt. Milodon pan. Aluminum heads with a 484 purple shaft cam kit. Cast iron six barrel intake and stock 70 manifolds. Compression is 10:1. Engine fires right up every time and it puts out 90 lbs. of oil pressure cold. The rest of the car is being restored and I should have it on the road sometime this year. Thanks for the tips and info on this legendary engine.
I put high a pressure standard 440 oil pump in mine, as a high volume pump had noticeable drag on the engine with the bigger oil pump gears. Possibly over oiling cylinders also with 90 psi
@@lenmaryan7943 that is at cold start. And with 50 weight oil. It goes to 60 lbs. hot. So I might go to 30 weight. The first oil pump a I used went over 100 lbs.
@@lenmaryan7943 The high pressure and the high volume oil pumps have the same oil pressure spring, but the high volume pump ends up putting out more pressure. So much so, it can be hard to maintain rear main seal sealing.
@@randylear8264 Regular hydraulic lifters can have problems at high RPM with oils heavier than 30 weight. Rhoads lifters used to recommend 50 weight oil with their old high bleed lifters though. That was 50 years ago. The old Mopar Performance lifters used to be low travel plunger lifters and adjustable rockers were recommended, but the later ones are regular, full travel plunger lifters to work with non-adjustable rockers too. I drag raced 440's and later circle track 440's in a class that required hydraulic lifters. I thought drag racing was hard on parts, but circle track pushes everything to the limits. A synthetic 10W30 should protect your hydraulic lifter 440. The 10W30 Valvoline Racing Oil is very good.
@@BrandonLeeBrown thank you for the information on the cam,lifters and oil pump. I used the 484 cam and lifters out of my motor home 440 that had 10000 miles on it. I did not trust the cans and lifters we get today. This is a 19 70 hp 440 with a steel crank. Input the lifters in the same configuration they were in the old 1976 440. That 440 always ran 70-80 psi with no problems. That engine was put together in 1988.
Yes thank you for clearing up questions I had did not know About the difference between 69/70 six bbl rods, im doing a E 440 H.P. motor, a non A12 car but the 440 is almost correct in every way like a 6bbl engine except for the numbers, thanks for the info.
@@ultimatemusclecar yes, it's not an original factory production intake but made in the early 80s a 2nd generation I call it and it's N.O.S. and both outboard carbs are N.O.S. too and the center is getting replated .
I was in high school in 1970 and a classmates father owned a Chrysler dealership (Mancini Motors) - he drove a 440-6 Challenger that his father had the dealership mechanics “hop up“ - that is the fastest car I’ve ever ridden in the very definition of “putting you back in the seat”
I had the 72 with the 440 six pack. Had the horizontal indents in the door, satin black raised section of the hood, red, vinyl top and hideaway head lights. I was a Pontiac nut but this buddy of mine kept nagging me to buy this Charger. Said very few were made. This was back around 1981-82. Same hood, color and top like at the 3:35 mark
The Mopar guys I knew in the 70s and 80s preferred the 440 over the hemi. The main reason, hemis were a pain in the ass to keep tuned. But with a little bit of tuning the 440-6pack would run with the hemi without messing around with it every Saturday in your driveway.
Wow , this is an insanely informative video, love it & absolutely appreciate it, love all your videos & channel, it's aptly named Ultimate Muscle Car. keep up the incredible job.
I knew a guy who bought a 69 440 six pack, had a more radical cam installed which killed the vacuum operated 2 extra carbs and actually slowed the car down. Moral is you need a combination of parts that are designed to work together
@@stevek8829 the cam affects the vacuum that the engine makes and the two other carburetors are activated by vacuum. They are not operated by linkage from the factory. You can buy a progressive linkage from the aftermarket and use it to open the other 2. He just made a poor choice for a cam
@@pughoneycutt1986 I’m somewhat familiar. I owned, blueprinted and ran it back when they were new. I never heard of a cam choice preventing the end two from opening. There will still be manifold vacuum. That’s why the comment seems fake. There is so much BS in the comments, it’s fun.
@@stevek8829 that is what confuses people vacuum keeps them closed lack of vacuum is what opens them that is why holley sells different spring packages to go in vacuum bodies on the 2 end carbs the springs are what opens up the carbs vacuum is what close them. If the guy had bought springs matched to the cam to operate the end carbs he would have been alright.
At 4:47 the purple Cuda looks to be a twin of my 1970 Hemi Cuda. I sold it years back but it was one bad ass car. It was a Hemi, 4-speed, Track Pack DANA-60 4:10, black interior, console delete, AM 8-track with a black hocky stick, just like the photo. I had a fully built Super Stock motor but other wise looked 100% stock and in very nice over all shape cosmetically. I noticed that the car at 4:47 has the wrong dark gray center caps, "71" and aftermarket trim rings. Did you notice, the steering wheel, pentastar on fender and antenna are on the wrong sides.
Thanks for sharing the story about your ‘Cuda, it sounds like it was an amazing car! Good catch on the Pentastar etc reversed. It’s because the original picture was reversed so it could be faced the other way.
I had a 1971 Fury 3 Colorado highway patrol car 440-727, posi. stock didn't take long to do 140. one friend had 360 duster yellow stock badboy. Bought for $2000 car dealership low miles like 25,000. A new z-28 was from $4999. 1977 ish other people had hemi cars. $8000 was a cheap one
Purchase in the late 70s has been sitting around so many decades, it's one of the last one available at the factory, the Chrysler dealership said there were no more available at the time when the order was placed
special ordered a 1970 Sport Fury GT with the 440 six-pack. kept it about a year and traded for a station wagon.. found out years later it was one of about 66 with the six paxk.
Direct Connection use to sell Ford tripower carbs to replace the Mopar ones because the Ford Holly carbs had accelerator pump circuits in them because they used a manual linkage and not vacuum like the Mopar and GM carbs...
@@peggyseefeldt2638 The Mopar replacement carbs were the same large size as the original Mopar Six Pack carbs. The float bowls were changed because the metering bodies in the outboard carbs made them longer, which was an issue with the rear carb fitting behind the center carb.
Oh another thing about the rare 1970 440 Six pack aluminum intake manifolds is that they have a different number than the 1969 intake manifolds. The casting was improved, but was only sold in "warm weather" regions. I far as I can tell, the only region where they were actually sold was the state of Florida.
Back over 50 years ago, I installed Automotive Research Electronics Rev Guard to prevent over rev from missed shifts. The Hurst “mystery shifter” is one of the first things to replace with the Hurst Competition Plus. I learned to blueprint them in a race shop. Mine had Forged True crank, rods and pistons and a Sox & Martin straight cut gears and non-synchronized trans. Raced D stock when the record was 11.97. Best ET, driving to the track, was 12.17. Close enough to make the dedicated track cars break time quite often. In those days you raced in using last class record as handicap. Dialing in your own time made it too boring.
@@stevek8829 The 426 Street Hemi calls a valve spring height of 1.83", while the same springs in a 440-6 barrel call for an installed height of 1.86". It doesn't sound like much, but it makes a difference. Isky has good quality replacement single springs for both 340's and 440's. The 1963 300J 413 engine had double springs, that were the same outside diameter as the non-high performance big block springs and called for special valve seals to fit inside the inner springs.
When I bought rods for my 70 440+6 in 1975 the dealer said they were labeled NASCAR rods. Mine came thru a Direct Connection authorized dealer. Bought a 3 fingered clutch and steel bellhousing out of the Direct connection book too.
All 440 six packs had 3.91 gears standard. The standard gearing in street hemis was 3.23. This is pretty much the reason for higher ets for road tested street hemis compared to the 440 six pack cars.
I had a pair of Six Pack rods and a Six Pack harmonic balancer. I had the beams and crank counterweights polished and it was so much lighter we had to use s 440 harmonic balancer.
Thank you for clarifying that 1969 six-pack had the same rods as the 440 magnum. One question that still puzzles me, did the 1969 six-pack pistons have 10:1 or 10.5:1 compression? Did the 1969 pistons have the cut-outs for the valve clearance? Thank you 🙃
10.5:1 compression for 1969 and 1970. Willem Weertman (Chief Engineer - Engine Engineering) states in his book (Chrysler Engines 1922-1998) " In 1969 when a setup with triple two-barrel carburetors was developed for the 440-cu-in. RB engine. Using a host of performance parts from the A134 engine, including the long duration 268-284-46 camshaft but with an even higher 10.5:1 compression ratio and named....."
Thank you for responding. The engine block deck plate says, G440. The right side block says, 1970. It does Not say HP on the block deck plate. I believe the 6 pak with Edelbrock aluminum intake is aftermarket. Is there any way to tell what the motor may have come out of? Or if it's a true 1970 6 pak motor? Thanks again. I recently purchased the vehicle and I'm doing my best to decipher things.
The G440 indicates it is a 1971 440 block. The 1970 on the side indicates the casting date. It’s normal to have a block cast towards the end of the prior year. The only way to identify if it’s a 440 Six Pack block is to match the partial vin number on the lower side of the block to a factory Six Pack car. A Six Pack block and a regular 440 block are identical. Also, taking the engine apart and identifying notched Six Pack pistons wouldn’t prove anything because the engine may have been rebuilt at some point long ago. I wrote an article about this exact topic in my website which answers your question in more detail. It’s called How to Identify a 440 Six Pack engine. If you want to check it out: ultimatemusclecar.com/how-to-identify-a-440-six-pack-engine/
There are two types of bronze wall valve guide inserts. One type of bronze wears quickly, while the other type holds up well. The old Perfect Circle positive seal valve stem seals didn't allow any oil to pass to lubricate the guides. The newer Perfect Circle seals have a small oil groove to allow a small amount of oil to pass and lubricate the valve guides.
I built A 440 closed chamber 915 with 10.5 comp 570 lift Morris cam custom grind the gear 456. .stall 3700 dude you could not keep it straight. 830 chuck newton carb it would roast it out of the gate it loved higher RPM
You should have gotten the kit to make it adjustable, too much pressure and it will blow the oil filter apart...don't ask how I know this lol. You should only have 60-80 psi...
I had a factory original 69 A12 car, std shift car, went thru the engine after a season racing it, lo and behold it had the bigger connecting rods, now it was a late production car, so who knows.
@@ultimatemusclecar The 69 A12 automatic cars came with standard 440 HP transmissions. In 1970 there was a special Six Pack 727, but they had parts shortages. At the factory, they sometimes substituted a 440 HP transmission and sometimes they used a 426 Street Hemi 727. Late in the 1970 model year there was a factory bulletin that stated that only Hemi automatics were to substituted for Six Pack Automatica, if the Six Pack transmissions weren't available for assembly. That held through the 1971 model year, but most all 71 Six Pack automatics I've seen have had the special Six Pack 727.
Thank you! You forgot to mention that the '72 440 Six Pack / Six Barrel sported a higher compression ratio than all other 440 Six Pack /Six Barrel years. It's listed in the " Motors", "Chilton" manuals as 11:2 to 1. Look it up for yourself
I have both complete 70 and 71 440 hp engines and the connecting rods are the standard connecting rod but my 70 440 hp 2...6 pack engine numbers matching to my super bee..has the bigger 6 pack rods ...I also have a 72 440 hp 2 that was a factory 4 barrel engine with the 6 pack rods...maybe I'm the odd duck but every 70 and newer 440hp I've come across has had standard rods unless it was an hp2 block...I'm only expressing that isn't the case that all 440 hp 70 and newer came with the 6 pack rods ...what I don't get is why ...cause as far as I know the only difference between hp and hp2 is supposedly the shift ...as in the hp2 was the 2nd shift ..but there are some that claim hp2 is 6 pack only ...mind you I've found that every hp2 stamped 440 I've had came with 6 pack rods including my 72 hp2 440 that was obviously a single 4 barrel...
413 , wedge it was a 63-64 satellite or Coronet Graham lie would know what model it was I was going to purchase the vehicle from Graham at the time we just weren't on talking terms and we never touched base and that gets me even now, it was 1987, still think about it at 55 years old in 2023..
Do a video on the poly 318. I just learned about this motor and tomorrow I’m going to look at a rare one. It has stock dual 4 barrels and a 4 speed. A Chevy guy owns it and he don’t really know nothing about it. I think it’s a dodge polara or valiant or something. I’ll let yall know tomorrow.
@@ultimatemusclecar I’ve learned alot about the poly 318 and years of makes and options. The car is originally a 64 330 low model with slant six but somebody put a super rare dual quad wcfb carters v800 intake manifold from a 58 fury. A 65 poly 318 low performance engine mated to a first year a833 4 speed. It’s not numbers matching like our other cars but we took her in and we are bringing her back up to show worthy just because it’s a rare mash up of cool parts. We gonna shave the heads and cam the motor to match the 2 4 barrels and make her a fun car to cruise in and you don’t have to be so nervous driving her cuz she’s not a matching numbers rare car like the rest we have. I wish they would have kept exploring the poly head design to see how far it would go like the wedge and hemi but from what I understand it was a long lasting reliable truck motor just like the 318 wax known for till the 2000s.
As one who raced both in NHRA stock class I don’t remember the factory ever rating speed. The hemi opens up as the wedge is shutting down. A stock 1968 hemi Road Runner with dual quad could do 170. I know because I did it. I’ve never gone so fast since. My current Vette is rated for 175, but I’m not trying it-I’m mid seventies now. Damn I’d love to get slammed in the seat by my Six Pak.
You know your stuff and did your homework! The only thing I would add is the 'low taper' lifters probably weren't needed but were used out of an abundance of caution to get out of the warranty period. I used those springs with standard lobes and never had a problem. Supposedly it gave a 'flatter' more load bearing surface on the lobe/lifter and moved the rotation surface towards the edge of the lifter. I don't know about the wisdom of going to that beefier rod and keeping the 3/8" rod bolts. The rod bolts are the most common failure point of a con rod. I never heard of any high frequency of rod failures in 440's. The 440 was more RPM limited by the heavy reciprocating mass of the rotating assembly, in very large part due to the over 2" compression height of the piston. There just isn't much you could do about that (then). You have to work with what you got. Those rods kind of went in the opposite direction. Probably an LY in better material would be the way to go. Cool video!
The 66 Street Hemi had a 3 month, no mileage warranty. The 67 Street Hemi had a 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty. All other Mopars had a 5 year, 50,000 mile warranty, including the 68 and newer Street Hemi. The 69 440 Darts and Barracudas did not though. The rod bolts are strong enough, as long as they are only torqued once. The Six Pack forged pistons are about the same weight as the high compression cast pistons. 440 pistons are very heavy. The Six Pack connecting rods are copied from the optional 1964 300K 390 horsepower 413 engine. This was a rare early 64 optional engine that used the 1963 300J cylinder heads. The 1963 390 HP 413 300J engine used standard weight connecting rods, so the early 64 versions are rare. The standard 64 300K engine was the 360 HP 413 engine, with the then new 516 casting heads.
@@BrandonLeeBrown I have a factory 'Warranty Policy and Procedure' manual covering 1969-1971. In 1970 the powertrain was 5/50 and the vehicle (pass cars and 100-300 trucks) was 12mo/12k mi. In 1971 it was 12mo/12k miles for the powertrain and the vehicle. I think in 1970 for the US govt (GSA) vehicles it was 5/50 for everything.
@@vincemajestyk9497 The Mopars had some of the best warranties at the time. The early Hemi's had their own, shorter warranties and the 69 440 Darts and Barracudas were "sold" for competition" without warranty, but they were street legal.
In my opinion, the 440 Magnum was the better engine for the street. Yeah, they didn't make as much power as the 6 Pack, but unlike those three 2 bbl carbs, the 4 bbl always stayed in tune
Rule of thumb...if you can't tune a six barrel properly then don't open the hood as all you will do is screw things up! Easiest set up there is to tune lol. You only need to "read the directios" to know how to do it
I'm a huge MOPAR fan and have owned many in my life time, including a 70 440-6 GTX. Good video but the Ronnie Sox testing of a six pack car is suspect. It is well believed that Chrysler gave him a car to test that was messaged a bit by the factory enabling him to get the car to run high 12 second times. There is no doubt that a 440-6 car could get into the 12's, but a totally stock engine would have to have headers and slicks or drag radials, along with super tuning to get there.
Thank you 👍🏻. I appreciate your comment. I love a 70 GTX. I almost bought one for my first car but the guy changed his mind and didn’t sell it. Yes IM sure the engine in that car wasn’t a typical assembly line job. It was probably “blueprinted” maybe massaged. I rebuilt a “six barrel” I changed the outboard carbs to mechanical, not vacuum, cam, headers, stock heads. It was a 4-speed with 4.10s. Street tires and open headers I had it running 12.60s feathering it off the line.
Another true MOPAR guy! My Brother came home from the Army in 1968 and I was a senior in high school. He bought a slightly used 67 GTX. Bone stock 440 with column shift automatic. I rode shotgun with him and we had a blast as he never got beat in drag race. Went to ATCO dragway where he won the trophy in his class, turning a respectable 14.01 @ 105 mph. I took my 70 six barrel GTX to the drags and I was disappointed as the engine was built to 500 cubes and 530 HP. Four speed with 4.10 gears and only turned 13.4 @107. I had drag radials but could not hook up and would just spin upon launch. I should have but slicks on it. Love MOPARS.
In 1969 Chrysler had Dick Landy build some Mopar car engines and ran them at the drag strip. They were the basis for a lot of the recommended performance parts. Mopar updated the parts lists over the years. The 69's had the gears, air grabbers / ram chargers, Hurst shifters and high compression pistons. He did some 1970 build stuff for them too, mostly with the hydraulic lifter Street Hemi. At some point he switched to being sponsored by Crane Cams and designed some Mopar racing cams for them. Mopar went on to develop newer performance packages with newer parts.
Fake horsepower claims......440-6 was advertised at 390 hp and 425 claimed to be 425 hp. Those were GROSS dyno numbers with bare motor missing belts, air filter, and exhaust. With those items installed the SAE NET horsepower of the 440 dropped to 325 and the 426 down to 350 horsepower. Starting in 1972 ALL engines sold had to list the NET horsepower, NOT the fake gross. A 2023 Dodge 5.7 puts out 375 hp net--MORE than the 440 OR the 426 hemi.....LOL......
The numbers were not fake. It's a function of where the numbers are measured. Brake aka flywheel horsepower is measured at the flywheel, like on an engine stand. Wheel hp is measured at the wheels, on a dyno.
@@ForwardPlans SAE NET horsepower is not measured at wheels fool it is measured at flywheel just like gross is measured at flywheel----you are so dumb you done even know what GROSS and NET horsepower is......426 hemi was 350 horsepower not 425 440 was 325 not 390....
@@ForwardPlans numbers were fake---sae net has NOTHING to do with rear wheel power dunce....you dont even know what GROSS and NET horsepower is....LOL>..
@@ForwardPlans GROSS Horsepower is at the crank with all stuff removed, belts, air cleaner, exhaust just a bare engine on the dyno......NET horsepower is placing the muffler, air cleaner, and belts back on which takes 18-20% off the gross number. ALL new cars have to do NET, GROSS was banned in new cars sales back in 1972. So 1970 car with 440-6 drops from 390 hp to 325 hp........426 Hemi drops from 425 hp at 5,000 rpm to 350 net. These lower numbers were printed in all the MOPAR parts catalogs starting in 1972. All the other cars that claimed 375 are actually 305 hp net....while 2023 5.7 Dodge V-8 puts out more at 385 HP NET. NONE of the horsepower numbers claimed in muscle cars made until 1972 are real which is why the old system was done away with, it was cheating buyers. The idea that car companies under rated HP numbers to fool insurance companies is a fairy tale....never happened.
At the spring fling tn Southern California one year (this was in the eighty's) there was a light blue 1972 Cuda with a six barrel set up. It had the carb stickers and all the signs of normal wear and tear California can afford short of abuse. I do believe this car to be real and this was what. two years after the AAR Cuda 340 car. Oh wait this 72 Cuda I am talking about is a 340 car. I remember it being a 72 car because I had a 72 car these and the 73's had round tail lights. It sure looked original. California stickers nox equipment and all
In 1969 they are the same as any 440 except inspected for optimum quality. In 1970 and 1971 they are different than the standard 440 but the same as the High Performance 440.
68 RT FACTORY, HEMI with, two engines, a 70-71, old stock. CHRYSLER TOTAL PERFORMANCE , MASSACHUSETTS DEALERSHIP ORDER CRATE ENGINE, SHIP TO FLORIDA WE'RE SAT IN STORAGE.. PURCHASE
Six Pack or Hemi for the street? Check out my 413 Max Wedge video: th-cam.com/video/f__PunlxR7g/w-d-xo.html
I’ve had both. I like the 6bbl just incase you get a little two rowdy. It’s way cheaper. People expect less from the 440 and it’s way easier to win more money. Make the race long enough for the hemi to get to its sweet spot or it won’t go as planned. Either one will school gsx 455 Buick don’t listen to the hype I’ve seen it done. Lol
I traded to get a car bought at police auction in the 80's. It was a '72 fury III police car with a 440 6 pack. Learned later the motor came from a '70. What a beast off the line. Would pass anything in the area, except a gas station.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
I bet there smiles per gallon were pretty good though 😊
There was a desire to use hydraulic lifters in the 426 Street Hemi in 1968, but Chrysler was unsure how the lifters would wear with the Street Hemi valve springs. They developed low taper lifters and a matching camshaft and assembled them in one 1968 Charger R/T and one 1968 GTX, with the six barrel intake and Holley carbs from the tri-power 427 Corvette. The two cars were given to two Chrysler execs to drive daily for 12 months, then Chrysler examined the camshafts and lifters from those two cars. Chrysler still didn't want to risk hydraulic lifters in the 426 Street Hemi without more testing. The 1969 A12 cars were marketed to see if any excessive lifter wear occurred. After the 1969 A12 cars, it was decided to use hydraulic lifters in the 1970 426 Street Hemi. The Six Pack connecting rods were originally designed for the 1964 Chrysler 300K, with the optional 390 horsepower, solid lifter, cross ram 413 engine. The standard 64 300K engine was a 360 hp 413. Chrysler designed a 383 Six Pack for 1971, but it wasn't ready in time for certification. It was then planned to make a 1972 Six Pack 400 with high compression, but the low compression requirement of the 1972 killed the 72 400 Six Pack engine. All three Six Pack intakes sold by Edelbrock were designed by Chrysler. The stated size difference between the 427 tri-power carbs and the Mopar Six Pack carbs is due to the CFM being measured using 4 barrel flow for the Chevy carbs and 2 barrel flow for the Mopar carbs. They are the same size carbs. I have a photo of a prototype Six Pack 383 engine. The 1963 Chrysler 300J engine was rated at 390 horsepower, but has standard weight connecting rods. Some 1970 440-6 engine got aluminum intakes, but most were sold in Florida, as the 1969 aluminum intakes had cold weather complaints.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
The 'CFM flow' of the carbs was rated by Holley the manufacturer of the carburetors. 2bbl's were rated at 3" of Hg and 4bbl's at 1.5" of Hg. 2bbl rating to 4bbl rating would be (for example) 1350 x .7071 = 954.585 cfm.
The 1969 1/2 A12 cars had a standard 440 Magnum valvetrain as evidenced by the single bolt nylon coated cam drive. The cam, lifters and springs, were standard HP parts. They went to the 3 bolt double roller Hemi cam drive in 1970 in part because of the 310 lb Hemi valve springs. The Magnum springs were 256 lb.
As far as those intakes, there were 2 manufactured by Edelbrock. The CH6B which was the Edelbrock made manifold used in 1969 production and for the "Hustle Stuff/DC' parts program and had 'CHRY 3412046' cast into it. The later Chrysler cast iron manifold, also initially offered via 'Hustle Stuff' (1970), was PN 2946275. The DP6B Low Deck manifold was only used through 'Hustle Stuff/DC' and was PN P3571051. As far as aluminum vs cast iron usage, had nothing to do with weather. (The aluminum intakes came with heat riser passages just like the iron ones). It was production and economics. It was faster and cheaper for Chrysler to produce the manifold in-house for higher production volume than to risk delays outsourcing. Initially when they rolled out the iron manifolds for the 1970 MY, being a new part, there were some problems with casting porosity and oil usage.
Those '6bbl' rods are different than the Max Wedge rods and have a way higher 'forging' number. The Max Wedge rods, PN 2406886, had a bigger beam section at the small end, vs the '6bbl' rod 2951906 which had a wider beam all the way to the big end. There was a 'P Part' version of this rod with better metallurgy which had a forging number P4120516. It looked like the 6bbl rod but made of lighter higher strength steel (4140 or 4340) vs the 'std' 1053 of the stockers.
@@vincemajestyk9497 The Six Pack carbs were the same size bore and boosters as the 427 Corvette carbs. Buying the carbs from Holley does get the two barrel flow ratings stated, but the GM sources list the carbs as smaller, due to using 4 barrel level flow rating. I've never seen the Corvette carbs sold directly by Holley and I mean since the 1960's. The 1969 A12 engines did have the low taper lifters, which was the whole point of the limited number of them made. It was to test the wear of the low taper lifters with Street Hemi valve springs, before using them in the 1970 Street Hemi. I know the exhaust crossover is in the Six Pack intake, but there were complaints in cold weather with the aluminum intakes. It was later found the the early Six Pack carbs had a defect or design flaw. Originally it was thought the aluminum intake was the issue. The Six Pack connecting rods are not Max Wedge rods, which were heavier than Six Pack rods. The 1963 Chrysler 300J had a solid lifter 413, with improved intake ports, 1.74" exhaust valves, jam nuts on the adjustable rocker arms, though different from Max Wedge rockers and standard weight connecting rods, rated at 390 HP. The 1964 300K standard 413 was a 360 HP hydraulic lifter engine, but had an optional 390 HP 413, that was the same as the 1963 300J engine, except it had heavier connecting rods, which became the Six Pack rods for 1970. The 440 Magnum valve springs were designed to limit RPM to protect the cast pistons. The 1964 300K 390 HP engine was a limited production option in the beginning of the 1964 model year, which had the connecting rods that would later become the Six Pack rods. The rocker arms and connecting rods were different from the Max Wedge parts. The 1963 300H engine had solid lifters, but had rocker adjusters like the Slant 6, without jam nuts. It's interesting that the later beefed up rockers and connecting rods did differ from the Max Wedge parts. The 426 Street Wedge came out in 1964, but the 300K stuck with the 413 for 1964. The 440 came out in 1966, but the leftover 426 Street Wedge engines became the Dodge and Plymouth police car big engine for early 1966. The "P" part numbers were Mopar Performance parts that did not have any warranty. There was a "P" part number version of the standard weight connecting rod that was made of 4340 steel and a Hemi weight version too, with larger bolts. There was a better intake gasket for the aluminum Six Pack intake, with paper on both sides. The original Six Pack rocker arms were hand picked from standard 440 stamped rockers to meet a minimum required thickness for Six Pack use. TRW sold replacement push rods for the Six Pack 440, but I don't think I've seen a Mopar part number for different Six pack puah rods. Aluminum intakes have problems just due to expanding differently than cast iron. It was thought that outboard carbs didn't get enough heat under them, from the exhaust crossover. The low desk Six pack intake was designed by Chrysler and made by Edelbrock. Chrysler had designed a 383 Six Pack engine for 1971, but it wasn't certified in time for production. I have a photo of a factory prototype. Then there was goin to be a high compression 400 version for 72, but when the high compression was canceled, the Six Pack 400 was scratched from production. That intake was used on factory prototype 383 engines. The photo I have shows an air cleaner assembly that looks similar to the pop up hood scoop type, but shiny, as maybe chromed, but the photo is black and white. The height of the cleaner may be slightly higher too. I bought Stage IV heads in the late 70's. They were made in house by Chrysler, but the later Stage V heads were contracted out. The Hemi weight RB rods came out in the 1970's and I bought the 4340 rods in the 1980's. The 4340 rods were standard weight, not Six Pack weight.
The aluminum intakes were made by Edelbrock....
@@vernonslone8627 In the early 1970's, the Edelbrock intakes sold by Mopar Performance / Direct Connection actually had the Mopar "P" part number cast in them from Edelbrock. I've had several of those.
Thanks for dispelling some of these myths, the farther we get from the 60's and 70's the more some of them grow. I know a Hemi in the right state of tune was almost unbeatable but I also seen some pretty fast 6-packs back in the day!
Thank you 👍🏻
Basically, if the 440 car hooked and the Hemi spun off the line it was going to be very difficult to catch up with the 440-6.
I have a 71 Charger factory 440 six pack 4 speed 4.10 car and a 71 Charger factory Hemi Automatic 3.23. They are both great runners. I haven't taken them to the track, but from seat of the pants, when running them hard, the Hemi is clearly faster. The hemi engine makes much more power, especially up top. The six pack engine makes great midrange power. Both are great, but the hemi is making probably 100 more horsepower. Remember they rated the hemi at 425 hp at 5000 rpm. That was accurate but misleading because peak horsepower was at 6000+ rpm and was closer to 500.
@@johntierno546 It's much simpler than that. Eight barrels beats six. Chrysler had plenty of experience with dual quad 413s but chose the lesser option instead. "Six packs" were common for the highway cruisers of the late 50s and early 60s, when drivers needed the extra power to get around slow trucks on the two lane highways like US 30 and 40. Once the interstate system came to be the trucks had their own lanes and the six packs and dual quad setups were relegated to the hot rodders and racers.
The fact is IF a hemi car and a 6-pack car were exactly the same with the same driver the 6-pack car would win every-time in a quarter mile.
Had 2 brothers older than me, both owned Hemi cars and a 6-pack car, I personally owned a 69 Suber Bee 6-pack car and a 67 GTX Hemi car (the GTX had a 70 Hemi engine as the original engine blew-up before I owned the car. Anyway, between my brother's cars and friends who also owned both it is a fact that a 6-pack car will "barely", barley outrun a Hemi car, however, IF one were to run 1350 ish ft instead of 1320 ft a Hemi would drive around a 6-pack car.
Back in 1974 I ordered a Racer Brown SS H 44 cam from Direct Connection and was told that I should also buy a set of 6 pack rocker arms because they were thicker around the ball atea and would keep the push rod from poking threw the rocker. It was a good cam ,worked very well and sounded awesome.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
The early Six Pack rockers were standard stamped rockers that were hand picked from regular service rockers, for meeting a minimum required thickness in the pushrod cups. They were sold under another part number after being selected for Six Pack engines. Randomly, standard rockers could be just as thick, but just hadn't been measured for minimum Six Pack thickness. The early 68 340 rockers were thicker than 318 rockers and with their larger diameter spring retainers, the rockers would often contact the retainers. The service bulletin stated the fix was for the dealers to hand grind retainer clearance in the underside of all 16 rockers in the 68 340 engines, that had that problem.
A ton of low end torque isn’t necessarily your friend unless you were running slicks, or raced from a roll. We always used standing starts, and most guys had the biggest tire the could get under the car, air shocks were mandatory. My secret was locally made recap tires, they were skinny, usually 7.75x14. They were super soft, usually white walls, and they didn’t intimidate anyone, but they got the job done. We would take a nice pair off the used tire rack where I worked, mount them on the stock steel rims on Friday, race over the weekend and by Monday they were back on the rack for sale. Sorta like the race on Sunday sell on Monday saying.
Thanks for sharing , awesome 👍🏻
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In the quarter mile, the 440 would take the hemi 426.
It’s not impossible for a 440 to take a Hemi, but the odds are stacked against it, you only have to compare the cylinder heads. There’s an old saying that I’d like to think came out of Chrysler Engineering, If you want to win, you need to plan ahead (a head).
Chevy guy here, but those 440s sound great….love them.
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Interesting trivia fact, the six barrel air cleaner will fit a 67 corvette 427 tri power and a 62 thunderbird 406 3-2 barrel setup! I had all 3 at the same time and tried it!
Absolutely the best most informative video I have ever seen about mopars. Great job. 💥💪🔥🏁
Thank you 👍🏻 I appreciate it!
I have a book that states the 440 six barrel cam had the same specs as the 383 magnum. The only difference was the 440 cam used 3 bolts where the 383 cam used 1 bolt.
Yes, the 383 with 335 HP had the same lift and duration.
Great video. Thanks for posting
👍🏻thank you
Nice video. Next time I see a 72 charger or Satellite in a junkyard I will probably be the owner of a time machine!
Thank you 👍🏻
I had a ,64 Plymouth Sport Fury 440. It was a monster. My wife hated it. Sold it in 2000. I sure miss it.
Nice. 👍🏻
You sold the wrong girl!
🤣
Just bought one last week; drove it from Detroit to Orlando. Rear main seal leaked a quarter of a quart every tank full.
A Sport Fury?
Good information. Thanks for posting. New subscriber.
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Great video I'm building a 512 6 pack currently.
That’s awesome. What kind of car are you putting it in?
@@ultimatemusclecar I'm luckily enough to have a real 1970 440 Six pack R/T challenger. I'm pulling the numbers matching drive train to preserve it, and installing the 512 straoker!
Just Dynoed made 612 HP @5200 RPM and 655 FT LBS at 4600 RPM.
That’s awesome 😎
I just rebuilt my 70 440-6. I used a high volume oil pump and deep 7 qt. Milodon pan. Aluminum heads with a 484 purple shaft cam kit. Cast iron six barrel intake and stock 70 manifolds. Compression is 10:1. Engine fires right up every time and it puts out 90 lbs. of oil pressure cold. The rest of the car is being restored and I should have it on the road sometime this year. Thanks for the tips and info on this legendary engine.
I put high a pressure standard 440 oil pump in mine, as a high volume pump had noticeable drag on the engine with the bigger oil pump gears. Possibly over oiling cylinders also with 90 psi
@@lenmaryan7943 that is at cold start. And with 50 weight oil. It goes to 60 lbs. hot. So I might go to 30 weight. The first oil pump a I used went over 100 lbs.
@@lenmaryan7943 The high pressure and the high volume oil pumps have the same oil pressure spring, but the high volume pump ends up putting out more pressure. So much so, it can be hard to maintain rear main seal sealing.
@@randylear8264 Regular hydraulic lifters can have problems at high RPM with oils heavier than 30 weight. Rhoads lifters used to recommend 50 weight oil with their old high bleed lifters though. That was 50 years ago. The old Mopar Performance lifters used to be low travel plunger lifters and adjustable rockers were recommended, but the later ones are regular, full travel plunger lifters to work with non-adjustable rockers too. I drag raced 440's and later circle track 440's in a class that required hydraulic lifters. I thought drag racing was hard on parts, but circle track pushes everything to the limits. A synthetic 10W30 should protect your hydraulic lifter 440. The 10W30 Valvoline Racing Oil is very good.
@@BrandonLeeBrown thank you for the information on the cam,lifters and oil pump. I used the 484 cam and lifters out of my motor home 440 that had 10000 miles on it. I did not trust the cans and lifters we get today. This is a 19 70 hp 440 with a steel crank. Input the lifters in the same configuration they were in the old 1976 440. That 440 always ran 70-80 psi with no problems. That engine was put together in 1988.
I always liked the simplicity of the single 4 barrel dual exhaust
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Anyone heard of a'68 cast iron six pack intake? I have one...Oct 68 date code and it's factory item...
Yes thank you for clearing up questions I had did not know About the difference between 69/70 six bbl rods, im doing a E 440 H.P. motor, a non A12 car but the 440 is almost correct in every way like a 6bbl engine except for the numbers, thanks for the info.
Nice. 👍🏻 Are you using the Edelbrock intake manifold?
@@ultimatemusclecar yes, it's not an original factory production intake but made in the early 80s a 2nd generation I call it and it's N.O.S. and both outboard carbs are N.O.S. too and the center is getting replated .
Sounds awesome!
I was in high school in 1970 and a classmates father owned a Chrysler dealership (Mancini Motors) - he drove a 440-6 Challenger that his father had the dealership mechanics “hop up“ - that is the fastest car I’ve ever ridden in the very definition of “putting you back in the seat”
Awesome 👍🏻
I had the 72 with the 440 six pack. Had the horizontal indents in the door, satin black raised section of the hood, red, vinyl top and hideaway head lights. I was a Pontiac nut but this buddy of mine kept nagging me to buy this Charger. Said very few were made. This was back around 1981-82. Same hood, color and top like at the 3:35 mark
The Mopar guys I knew in the 70s and 80s preferred the 440 over the hemi. The main reason, hemis were a pain in the ass to keep tuned. But with a little bit of tuning the 440-6pack would run with the hemi without messing around with it every Saturday in your driveway.
Thanks for watching and commenting 👍🏻
Wow , this is an insanely informative video, love it & absolutely appreciate it, love all your videos & channel, it's aptly named Ultimate Muscle Car. keep up the incredible job.
Thank you 👍🏻 I appreciate it!
Not very INSANELY informative. How about the hp and torque comparison between the 4bbl and 6bbl 440.
I knew a guy who bought a 69 440 six pack, had a more radical cam installed which killed the vacuum operated 2 extra carbs and actually slowed the car down. Moral is you need a combination of parts that are designed to work together
Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
How could that happen? They cam isn’t connected to the carbs. You’d still get the outer two to open.
My Lunati cam didn’t bother mine.
@@stevek8829 the cam affects the vacuum that the engine makes and the two other carburetors are activated by vacuum. They are not operated by linkage from the factory. You can buy a progressive linkage from the aftermarket and use it to open the other 2. He just made a poor choice for a cam
@@pughoneycutt1986 I’m somewhat familiar. I owned, blueprinted and ran it back when they were new. I never heard of a cam choice preventing the end two from opening. There will still be manifold vacuum. That’s why the comment seems fake. There is so much BS in the comments, it’s fun.
@@stevek8829 that is what confuses people vacuum keeps them closed lack of vacuum is what opens them that is why holley sells different spring packages to go in vacuum bodies on the 2 end carbs the springs are what opens up the carbs vacuum is what close them. If the guy had bought springs matched to the cam to operate the end carbs he would have been alright.
We had a 1975 power wagon with the 4 barrel Rochester carburettor. Great truck, great towing rig. 10mpg wether driving or towing
For got...had the 440ci engine
Are you sure it wasn't a Carter Thermoquad?
At 4:47 the purple Cuda looks to be a twin of my 1970 Hemi Cuda. I sold it years back but it was one bad ass car. It was a Hemi, 4-speed, Track Pack DANA-60 4:10, black interior, console delete, AM 8-track with a black hocky stick, just like the photo. I had a fully built Super Stock motor but other wise looked 100% stock and in very nice over all shape cosmetically. I noticed that the car at 4:47 has the wrong dark gray center caps, "71" and aftermarket trim rings. Did you notice, the steering wheel, pentastar on fender and antenna are on the wrong sides.
Thanks for sharing the story about your ‘Cuda, it sounds like it was an amazing car! Good catch on the Pentastar etc reversed. It’s because the original picture was reversed so it could be faced the other way.
I had a 1971 Fury 3 Colorado highway patrol car 440-727, posi. stock didn't take long to do 140. one friend had 360 duster yellow stock badboy. Bought for $2000 car dealership low miles like 25,000. A new z-28 was from $4999. 1977 ish other people had hemi cars. $8000 was a cheap one
Thanks for sharing. 👍🏻 A lot of those big C bodies had 3.23 gears, 2.73s. They were good for high MPH on the highway like that.
Good Video/Info.
Thank you 👍🏻
Purchase in the late 70s has been sitting around so many decades, it's one of the last one available at the factory, the Chrysler dealership said there were no more available at the time when the order was placed
If you find an original 1969 magazine advertisement for the 440 6 pack/6 bbl it specifically states larger cam specs on the advertisement.
Yep, I have original magazine road test articles with conflicting info on the 1969 engine and camshaft.
By the way, I'm a huge fan of the 1970 Road Runner/GTX body style. Do you have any current videos of your car, Assuming it''s yours?
special ordered a 1970 Sport Fury GT with the 440 six-pack. kept it about a year and traded for a station wagon.. found out years later it was one of about 66 with the six paxk.
Awesome. You may enjoy this video I published about the 1970 Sport Fury GT: th-cam.com/video/9lQgbfD2T7g/w-d-xo.html
Thank you SiR! DoTTiNG it's & XROSSiNG T's!
Thank you!
Direct Connection use to sell Ford tripower carbs to replace the Mopar ones because the Ford Holly carbs had accelerator pump circuits in them because they used a manual linkage and not vacuum like the Mopar and GM carbs...
Thanks for sharing. I had the mechanical outboard carbs on my 'Cuda.
Plus the Ford ones were all 500 cfm .
Ford's tricarbs are also smaller holleys 350 cfm. Inboard carbs different than outboard also.
@@peggyseefeldt2638 The Mopar replacement carbs were the same large size as the original Mopar Six Pack carbs. The float bowls were changed because the metering bodies in the outboard carbs made them longer, which was an issue with the rear carb fitting behind the center carb.
Not necessarily, the Tbird of 61 and 62 used Vacuum
They also had moly coated rings
Yes. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻
Which I repaced with ductile iron at first blueprint.
Oh another thing about the rare 1970 440 Six pack aluminum intake manifolds is that they have a different number than the 1969 intake manifolds. The casting was improved, but was only sold in "warm weather" regions. I far as I can tell, the only region where they were actually sold was the state of Florida.
The two six barrel Road Runners I know of had thrown connecting rods through the side of the blocks.They were products of being over reved.
Thanks for sharing.
I've seen a few of those. The heavy valve springs allowed a lot of RPM.
Back over 50 years ago, I installed Automotive Research Electronics Rev Guard to prevent over rev from missed shifts. The Hurst “mystery shifter” is one of the first things to replace with the Hurst Competition Plus.
I learned to blueprint them in a race shop. Mine had Forged True crank, rods and pistons and a Sox & Martin straight cut gears and non-synchronized trans.
Raced D stock when the record was 11.97. Best ET, driving to the track, was 12.17. Close enough to make the dedicated track cars break time quite often. In those days you raced in using last class record as handicap. Dialing in your own time made it too boring.
@@BrandonLeeBrownyou blueprint 440 springs to 130 lbs.
@@stevek8829 The 426 Street Hemi calls a valve spring height of 1.83", while the same springs in a 440-6 barrel call for an installed height of 1.86". It doesn't sound like much, but it makes a difference. Isky has good quality replacement single springs for both 340's and 440's. The 1963 300J 413 engine had double springs, that were the same outside diameter as the non-high performance big block springs and called for special valve seals to fit inside the inner springs.
When I bought rods for my 70 440+6 in 1975 the dealer said they were labeled NASCAR rods.
Mine came thru a Direct Connection authorized dealer.
Bought a 3 fingered clutch and steel bellhousing out of the Direct connection book too.
One of my high school friends still has a 440 HP in his 1969 Charger. Super-scary fast off the line, but what a rush!
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Even scarier are the 1969 brakes! 😃
Lol. I know what that feels like. Standard 4 wheel drums can be scary.
Do you mean 440 ci?
@@stevek8829 440 HP = 440 ci High Performance
All 440 six packs had 3.91 gears standard. The standard gearing in street hemis was 3.23. This is pretty much the reason for higher ets for road tested street hemis compared to the 440 six pack cars.
The gears make a huge difference 👍🏻
Any external markings or tags showing what gear ratio a person has.
I'm thinking of a 69 super bee.
I had a pair of Six Pack rods and a Six Pack harmonic balancer. I had the beams and crank counterweights polished and it was so much lighter we had to use s 440 harmonic balancer.
Thank you for clarifying that 1969 six-pack had the same rods as the 440 magnum. One question that still puzzles me, did the 1969 six-pack pistons have 10:1 or 10.5:1 compression? Did the 1969 pistons have the cut-outs for the valve clearance? Thank you 🙃
Thank you 👍🏻.
10.5:1 compression for 1969 and 1970. Willem Weertman (Chief Engineer - Engine Engineering) states in his book (Chrysler Engines 1922-1998) " In 1969 when a setup with triple two-barrel carburetors was developed for the 440-cu-in. RB engine. Using a host of performance parts from the A134 engine, including the long duration 268-284-46 camshaft but with an even higher 10.5:1 compression ratio and named....."
back in the day a friend had a 71 Plymouth S plus.. it was 440 six barrel 4 speed . it was not GTX or Road Runner? it was no clone his Dad ordered it
Do you mean Sebring Plus?
Love how they overate the compression ratios on these 440s.
Yes. They were truly below 10:1. More towards 9.5 -9.7 or so.
What if I found a 1973 Charger SE Brougham 440 U- code with a 6 pak?
I would guess the intake was added after.
I'm guessing so too.
Thank you for responding. The engine block deck plate says, G440. The right side block says, 1970. It does Not say HP on the block deck plate. I believe the 6 pak with Edelbrock aluminum intake is aftermarket. Is there any way to tell what the motor may have come out of? Or if it's a true 1970 6 pak motor? Thanks again. I recently purchased the vehicle and I'm doing my best to decipher things.
The G440 indicates it is a 1971 440 block. The 1970 on the side indicates the casting date. It’s normal to have a block cast towards the end of the prior year.
The only way to identify if it’s a 440 Six Pack block is to match the partial vin number on the lower side of the block to a factory Six Pack car.
A Six Pack block and a regular 440 block are identical. Also, taking the engine apart and identifying notched Six Pack pistons wouldn’t prove anything because the engine may have been rebuilt at some point long ago.
I wrote an article about this exact topic in my website which answers your question in more detail. It’s called How to Identify a 440 Six Pack engine. If you want to check it out: ultimatemusclecar.com/how-to-identify-a-440-six-pack-engine/
The Edelbrock intake is not original to a 1971 engine. They were only on the 69 1/2 engines and a few 70’s.
My father had a friend with a 440 R/T street car back in the day. I remember his engine suffering from repeated premature valve guide wear.
Thanks for sharing.
There are two types of bronze wall valve guide inserts. One type of bronze wears quickly, while the other type holds up well. The old Perfect Circle positive seal valve stem seals didn't allow any oil to pass to lubricate the guides. The newer Perfect Circle seals have a small oil groove to allow a small amount of oil to pass and lubricate the valve guides.
I built A 440 closed chamber 915 with 10.5 comp 570 lift Morris cam custom grind the gear 456. .stall 3700 dude you could not keep it straight. 830 chuck newton carb it would roast it out of the gate it loved higher RPM
Awesome 👍🏻
I liked my 1972, 440. Was cool with the oil pump outside of the pan. I put a 100 psi one on. It sure was a thirsty engine.
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You should have gotten the kit to make it adjustable, too much pressure and it will blow the oil filter apart...don't ask how I know this lol. You should only have 60-80 psi...
I had a factory original 69 A12 car, std shift car, went thru the engine after a season racing it, lo and behold it had the bigger connecting rods, now it was a late production car, so who knows.
You bought it new? Sometimes there is an overlap of parts from different years. Like some ‘70 cars came with the Edelbrock manifold.
Bought with 450 miles on it, date on the block coincided with the production info, close enough, was a 69 block.
Awesome 👍🏻
@@ultimatemusclecar The 69 A12 automatic cars came with standard 440 HP transmissions. In 1970 there was a special Six Pack 727, but they had parts shortages. At the factory, they sometimes substituted a 440 HP transmission and sometimes they used a 426 Street Hemi 727. Late in the 1970 model year there was a factory bulletin that stated that only Hemi automatics were to substituted for Six Pack Automatica, if the Six Pack transmissions weren't available for assembly. That held through the 1971 model year, but most all 71 Six Pack automatics I've seen have had the special Six Pack 727.
you mean the 440" 6 BBL ended in 1971 with leftovers making into some72s. and so 440 standard 4 was optional 1973
THANK YOU *
Thank you 👍🏻
No 70s muscle car Mopar would be at a junkyard today
There is some out there, just search for Mopar graveyards or salvage yards.
@@ultimatemusclecar true, true
Thank you! You forgot to mention that the '72 440 Six Pack / Six Barrel sported a higher compression ratio than all other 440 Six Pack /Six Barrel years. It's listed in the " Motors", "Chilton" manuals as 11:2 to 1. Look it up for yourself
Thank you! I don't have the Chilton manual but I would think that they printed the wrong compression ratio for that engine.
@ultimatemusclecar sorry, your wrong.
I have both complete 70 and 71 440 hp engines and the connecting rods are the standard connecting rod but my 70 440 hp 2...6 pack engine numbers matching to my super bee..has the bigger 6 pack rods ...I also have a 72 440 hp 2 that was a factory 4 barrel engine with the 6 pack rods...maybe I'm the odd duck but every 70 and newer 440hp I've come across has had standard rods unless it was an hp2 block...I'm only expressing that isn't the case that all 440 hp 70 and newer came with the 6 pack rods ...what I don't get is why ...cause as far as I know the only difference between hp and hp2 is supposedly the shift ...as in the hp2 was the 2nd shift ..but there are some that claim hp2 is 6 pack only ...mind you I've found that every hp2 stamped 440 I've had came with 6 pack rods including my 72 hp2 440 that was obviously a single 4 barrel...
I had a 69 GTX 440 Six Pack , mine wasn't stock
Nice 👍🏻
413 , wedge it was a 63-64 satellite or Coronet Graham lie would know what model it was I was going to purchase the vehicle from Graham at the time we just weren't on talking terms and we never touched base and that gets me even now, it was 1987, still think about it at 55 years old in 2023..
Do a video on the poly 318. I just learned about this motor and tomorrow I’m going to look at a rare one. It has stock dual 4 barrels and a 4 speed. A Chevy guy owns it and he don’t really know nothing about it. I think it’s a dodge polara or valiant or something. I’ll let yall know tomorrow.
There may be one in the future 👍🏻
@@ultimatemusclecar I’ve learned alot about the poly 318 and years of makes and options. The car is originally a 64 330 low model with slant six but somebody put a super rare dual quad wcfb carters v800 intake manifold from a 58 fury. A 65 poly 318 low performance engine mated to a first year a833 4 speed. It’s not numbers matching like our other cars but we took her in and we are bringing her back up to show worthy just because it’s a rare mash up of cool parts. We gonna shave the heads and cam the motor to match the 2 4 barrels and make her a fun car to cruise in and you don’t have to be so nervous driving her cuz she’s not a matching numbers rare car like the rest we have. I wish they would have kept exploring the poly head design to see how far it would go like the wedge and hemi but from what I understand it was a long lasting reliable truck motor just like the 318 wax known for till the 2000s.
👍🏻Awesome. Thanks for sharing
Mine had a Florida title I bought it in Pennsylvania originally the car was from CHICAGO or stored in Detroit
Which car did you get?
Yep. The 440 SIXPACK was rated FASTER than the 426 HEMI from the factory. You could just do more with the HEMI heads. The rest is history.
Thanks for sharing!
As one who raced both in NHRA stock class I don’t remember the factory ever rating speed. The hemi opens up as the wedge is shutting down. A stock 1968 hemi Road Runner with dual quad could do 170. I know because I did it. I’ve never gone so fast since. My current Vette is rated for 175, but I’m not trying it-I’m mid seventies now. Damn I’d love to get slammed in the seat by my Six Pak.
Thanks for sharing. What year Vette do you have?
@@ultimatemusclecar 2015
Nice 👍🏻
You know your stuff and did your homework! The only thing I would add is the 'low taper' lifters probably weren't needed but were used out of an abundance of caution to get out of the warranty period. I used those springs with standard lobes and never had a problem. Supposedly it gave a 'flatter' more load bearing surface on the lobe/lifter and moved the rotation surface towards the edge of the lifter.
I don't know about the wisdom of going to that beefier rod and keeping the 3/8" rod bolts. The rod bolts are the most common failure point of a con rod. I never heard of any high frequency of rod failures in 440's. The 440 was more RPM limited by the heavy reciprocating mass of the rotating assembly, in very large part due to the over 2" compression height of the piston. There just isn't much you could do about that (then). You have to work with what you got. Those rods kind of went in the opposite direction. Probably an LY in better material would be the way to go. Cool video!
Thank you 👍🏻
The 66 Street Hemi had a 3 month, no mileage warranty. The 67 Street Hemi had a 12 month, 12,000 mile warranty. All other Mopars had a 5 year, 50,000 mile warranty, including the 68 and newer Street Hemi. The 69 440 Darts and Barracudas did not though. The rod bolts are strong enough, as long as they are only torqued once. The Six Pack forged pistons are about the same weight as the high compression cast pistons. 440 pistons are very heavy. The Six Pack connecting rods are copied from the optional 1964 300K 390 horsepower 413 engine. This was a rare early 64 optional engine that used the 1963 300J cylinder heads. The 1963 390 HP 413 300J engine used standard weight connecting rods, so the early 64 versions are rare. The standard 64 300K engine was the 360 HP 413 engine, with the then new 516 casting heads.
Especially in a street car or mild build, the standard rods are better to 6,000 no problem.
@@BrandonLeeBrown I have a factory 'Warranty Policy and Procedure' manual covering 1969-1971. In 1970 the powertrain was 5/50 and the vehicle (pass cars and 100-300 trucks) was 12mo/12k mi. In 1971 it was 12mo/12k miles for the powertrain and the vehicle. I think in 1970 for the US govt (GSA) vehicles it was 5/50 for everything.
@@vincemajestyk9497 The Mopars had some of the best warranties at the time. The early Hemi's had their own, shorter warranties and the 69 440 Darts and Barracudas were "sold" for competition" without warranty, but they were street legal.
In my opinion, the 440 Magnum was the better engine for the street. Yeah, they didn't make as much power as the 6 Pack, but unlike those three 2 bbl carbs, the 4 bbl always stayed in tune
Thanks for sharing!
Rule of thumb...if you can't tune a six barrel properly then don't open the hood as all you will do is screw things up! Easiest set up there is to tune lol. You only need to "read the directios" to know how to do it
@@Randy7th That's not the point---the point was that you had to do it often. It wasn't a "once a year" thing
and an 850 holley double pump carburetor is better depending on how you're driving daily use, drag strip or car show original 😊
It does have its advantages 👍🏻
I knew a guy who had one. He told me he spent a LOT of time at the Gas station. Especially since it was his daily driver.😝
As they used to say "passes everything but the gas station."
My 70 Coronet R/T 440 was a thirsty one. Every time I went somewhere, I put in $5. Pretty soon I would end up with a full tank😎
I'm a huge MOPAR fan and have owned many in my life time, including a 70 440-6 GTX. Good video but the Ronnie Sox testing of a six pack car is suspect. It is well believed that Chrysler gave him a car to test that was messaged a bit by the factory enabling him to get the car to run high 12 second times. There is no doubt that a 440-6 car could get into the 12's, but a totally stock engine would have to have headers and slicks or drag radials, along with super tuning to get there.
Thank you 👍🏻. I appreciate your comment. I love a 70 GTX. I almost bought one for my first car but the guy changed his mind and didn’t sell it.
Yes IM sure the engine in that car wasn’t a typical assembly line job. It was probably “blueprinted” maybe massaged.
I rebuilt a “six barrel” I changed the outboard carbs to mechanical, not vacuum, cam, headers, stock heads. It was a 4-speed with 4.10s. Street tires and open headers I had it running 12.60s feathering it off the line.
Another true MOPAR guy! My Brother came home from the Army in 1968 and I was a senior in high school. He bought a slightly used 67 GTX. Bone stock 440 with column shift automatic. I rode shotgun with him and we had a blast as he never got beat in drag race. Went to ATCO dragway where he won the trophy in his class, turning a respectable 14.01 @ 105 mph. I took my 70 six barrel GTX to the drags and I was disappointed as the engine was built to 500 cubes and 530 HP. Four speed with 4.10 gears and only turned 13.4 @107. I had drag radials but could not hook up and would just spin upon launch. I should have but slicks on it. Love MOPARS.
In 1969 Chrysler had Dick Landy build some Mopar car engines and ran them at the drag strip. They were the basis for a lot of the recommended performance parts. Mopar updated the parts lists over the years. The 69's had the gears, air grabbers / ram chargers, Hurst shifters and high compression pistons. He did some 1970 build stuff for them too, mostly with the hydraulic lifter Street Hemi. At some point he switched to being sponsored by Crane Cams and designed some Mopar racing cams for them. Mopar went on to develop newer performance packages with newer parts.
stock 440-6 was only 325 NET horsepower, 50 less than a new 5.7 at 375 net......will take a lot more to get that car in the 12's
Fake horsepower claims......440-6 was advertised at 390 hp and 425 claimed to be 425 hp. Those were GROSS dyno numbers with bare motor missing belts, air filter, and exhaust. With those items installed the SAE NET horsepower of the 440 dropped to 325 and the 426 down to 350 horsepower. Starting in 1972 ALL engines sold had to list the NET horsepower, NOT the fake gross. A 2023 Dodge 5.7 puts out 375 hp net--MORE than the 440 OR the 426 hemi.....LOL......
The numbers were not fake. It's a function of where the numbers are measured.
Brake aka flywheel horsepower is measured at the flywheel, like on an engine stand. Wheel hp is measured at the wheels, on a dyno.
@@ForwardPlans SAE NET horsepower is not measured at wheels fool it is measured at flywheel just like gross is measured at flywheel----you are so dumb you done even know what GROSS and NET horsepower is......426 hemi was 350 horsepower not 425 440 was 325 not 390....
@@ForwardPlans numbers were fake---sae net has NOTHING to do with rear wheel power dunce....you dont even know what GROSS and NET horsepower is....LOL>..
How did they measure those numbers, where
did the gross and net numbers come from?
@@ForwardPlans GROSS Horsepower is at the crank with all stuff removed, belts, air cleaner, exhaust just a bare engine on the dyno......NET horsepower is placing the muffler, air cleaner, and belts back on which takes 18-20% off the gross number. ALL new cars have to do NET, GROSS was banned in new cars sales back in 1972. So 1970 car with 440-6 drops from 390 hp to 325 hp........426 Hemi drops from 425 hp at 5,000 rpm to 350 net. These lower numbers were printed in all the MOPAR parts catalogs starting in 1972. All the other cars that claimed 375 are actually 305 hp net....while 2023 5.7 Dodge V-8 puts out more at 385 HP NET. NONE of the horsepower numbers claimed in muscle cars made until 1972 are real which is why the old system was done away with, it was cheating buyers.
The idea that car companies under rated HP numbers to fool insurance companies is a fairy tale....never happened.
The 440 six pack also had a three bolt cam gear like the hemi. All other 440s had a single bolt cam gear.
👍🏻 Yes for 70 and 71.
OOOOO Rah!
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At the spring fling tn Southern California one year (this was in the eighty's) there was a light blue 1972 Cuda with a six barrel set up. It had the carb stickers and all the signs of normal wear and tear California can afford short of abuse. I do believe this car to be real and this was what. two years after the AAR Cuda 340 car. Oh wait this 72 Cuda I am talking about is a 340 car. I remember it being a 72 car because I had a 72 car these and the 73's had round tail lights. It sure looked original. California stickers nox equipment and all
Thanks for sharing 👍🏻. I know in the early’70s some people swapped factory Six Barrel intakes on to their 440 or 340 cars but you never know.
Back in the day a buddy of mine had a 69 Charger with a 340 six pack. It was a pretty crazy car. 🙂
03:33 She got a snaggle tooth.😂
Oh 70 R/T challenger
Even better 👍🏻
The conrods are different !
In 1969 they are the same as any 440 except inspected for optimum quality. In 1970 and 1971 they are different than the standard 440 but the same as the High Performance 440.
68 RT FACTORY, HEMI with, two engines, a 70-71, old stock. CHRYSLER TOTAL PERFORMANCE , MASSACHUSETTS DEALERSHIP ORDER CRATE ENGINE, SHIP TO FLORIDA WE'RE SAT IN STORAGE.. PURCHASE
Foha Fohty
You can’t prove none of this
My 1969 road runner was my favorite.
In the video? Thanks for sharing!
I had a 69 roadrunner other friends had roadrunners also. Seems like everyone had problem with the three deuces. ( 6 pack )