Very fun and interesting video to watch. Some of the information I already knew just by guessing but a lot of the information I did not know. Thanks for making this video!
Fantastic video!. Honestly man, the fact that English is your second language, yet you still apply so much effort into making these videos are highly commended. You're a true gaming historian, keep up the great work :)
I came here to say exactly this. I really enjoyed this video and I totally agree with his sentiment that it's very interesting to learn about the efforts to make certain hardware do tricks it was never designed to do.
I know I’m a little late to the party 🎉 but I found this to be a fascinating video! …and as a native English speaker, let me say “Well done Sir and thank you for your willingness and effort to make this video accessible to a western-Anglo audience!” ごくろうさまです。
Very thorough! I've never seen a better explanation for why the hardware behaves the way it does when rendering transparencies and other visual effects. Thank you for taking the time to make this!
Low Score Boy Brother, I just have to thank , that you have taken the initiative to make an analysis by addressing the technical aspects of Saturn ! It is fascinating to see the creative ways that some developers have to overcome some shortcomings in the hardware , the fact that developers do something that at first the hardware would not do , is the instigator ! Congratulations on the video, even though he translated from English to Portuguese , the result was very good! If you can make more videos like this , it will be great! If you can answer me , I have a doubt ! Do you believe that the Ram cart, could bring some benefit to the 3D games on Saturn ? If so, what ? Big hug!
Nelson Julio Meloni I have a gut feeling the DSP inside the Saturn could be utilized to enhance 3D performance. If i recall correctly i think i remember Yu Suzuki remarking that's how they got the amazing gfx on a Saturn Shenmue (stock saturn). I'm not an expert (i'm a coder not hardware engineer) and as i say this is merely conjecture, but DSP's normally have much much better floating point performance than traditional CPU'S. Floating point is utilized alot in 3D applications. Maybe some 1 more knowledgeable could give more info, Would also love to learn more about the ram packs and there potential for enhancing the system
+Low Score Boy You make fantastic videos man, and this was the first video I'd seen from you, instant like and subscription! In fact, I might make a video about the Sega Saturn soon as this inspired some more curiosity on my part, and if I get around to it, I'll absolutely make a mention of this video and you're channel. Please keep up the good work and I'd be eager to see more videos about the Sega Saturn : ) Also, in relation to your questions +Nelson Julio Meloni, I'm not sure if it's accurate but I've heard since the Saturn displays it's 3d graphics using distorted sprites, and the 4mb cart allows the Saturn to use more sprites and frames of animation, a clever programmer could possibly get it to improve 3d performance, but who truly knows? Final Fight Revenge is a 3d game that uses it, but not in a way to increase graphical performance necessarily I don't think.
It's really a great reverse engineering work. It's almost a hardware case study of the Saturn architecture. You can earn from some university a master of hardware design with this. Congratulations!
Hi Low Score Boy, I'm French and i'm a big fan of the sega Saturn. First, i would like to congratulate you about this great video which explain how Saturn work to manage transparencies and 3D with VDP1 and VDP2. If it's possible, I would like your oppinion about transparencies effect in D-XHIRD game. In fact, I found that there are goods tricks to make transparence. Thanks in advance and continue to provide good video like this one.
Thank you very much for doing this video in English. This was very interesting as someone who makes videos here on TH-cam for the Sega Saturn and a huge Sega Saturn fan.
+Andrew's Channel, Featuring Project AXSX (A Sonic X-treme Inspired FanGame) And other random vids Holy shit, I am sorry I didn't respond to this originally Andrew. I totally missed this. But I just got a new computer so when that is up and running 100%, I will be working on reviews like crazy. I have been slack for the last 2-3 months because life has been so crazy. I lost my job of 7 years, started a new job, got a dog, a new car and a Wii-U. Most nights after work since the job has changed, all I want to do is chill and play Wii-U or watch TV/a movie. I did entertain the idea of starting a podcast which ultimately has everything I did during the week and anything else I want to talk about. It might still become something but not yet. Anyway, long story short I have 5 games in the pipeline and since I've been having a binge on basketball games and I will tell you what I told everyone on my facebook fan page: I am working on my next review which is NBA Action 98. Then to switch it up, it will be NBA Live 97. Then for a change of pace, NBA Live 98. Then for something different, straight into Slam'n Jam '96 featuring Magic & Kareem. Then College Slam because I'm just trollin you all - lol.
Very interesting, thanks. My only suggestion for future english videos is to edit and talk a little slower, and showing a little bit more gameplay footage following each example so it's easier to follow for those of us not familiar with all the technical terms. One question about the meshes: Why didn't more developers use high resolution meshes instead since the result is pretty good even with RGB and S Video? Was it too taxing for the console? On a side note, the SSF emulator allows for blending meshes, which makes them look almost like half-transparent layers instead, though the result is not perfect (the edges still look pixelated).
Alianger yeah, running games in high resolution of Saturn(640*480 interlaced or 704*480 interlaced) was taxing. Most Saturn games using high resolution are 3D fighting games, that only needs to draw two characters. Even if lighting shading effect was needed, like Fighting Vipers, Saturn is unable to run it in high resolution.
What an excellent video! I was one of the few American Saturn fans. I was actually an unabashed Sega fanboy for years. I'm sorry that I cannot compliment you in your native language. I can now at least pretend that I'm smarter after watching this. Again, well done sir.
Wow, that has to be the most informative and factual video I have ever seen on the Saturn's technical limitations and strengths. With the subtitles I could clearly hear and understand you. I hope you do more in English. Thanks and I will now subscribe!
This was an outstanding video. I learned a lot about the Saturn's VDP abilities, as well as the challenges inherent in its complex design. Like you, I always appreciate the skill programmers employ to push computers far beyond their original (conceived) limits. This goes back to the beginning of videogames, as shown in the excellent book, "Racing the Beam." I would also add (this was mentioned in the video) that people used CRT TVs in those days, and most often connected their game systems via RF cable. The dithered transparency effect appears smooth on those screens. Even composite on modern HDTVs will preserve this smoothness, which is closer to what the programmers intended. Those viewing classic videogames on emulators and digital displays are seeing a picture that is far more pixelated than it was originally seen. Anyway, I would enjoy another Saturn video, this has been extremely informative and fascinating. Arigatou!
The pixelated look has also something to do with what signal you are using. RGB-signals on a CRT also look more pixelated than composite on e.g. Playstation and Saturn, but the increased picture clarity and brighter colours make up for that in bounds. Consoles like the Master System, Genesis, Saturn, SNES and Playstation were RGB-capable out of the box, you just needed a RGB SCART cable to take advantage of it. By the end of the 90's at least, SCART inputs on consumer TVs were so common in Europe that almost anyone could get RGB quality out of their consoles. The main difference between 240p content on CRTs and LCD/LED-displays in my experience is how the latter fails to scale the image properly, the lack of scanlines on LCD make the sprites more blocky, and the vibrancy of the CRT colors is far superior. If you have the choice and opportunity, nothing beats RGB on a CRT for 240p content, but the second best is using RGB over expensive quality upscalers like the XRGB Mini Framemeister and OSSC for digital displays.
Your video is so unique! I have never seen a video like yours! I really like the way you present the facts. Thank you so much for sharing this video. Long live Sega Saturn :)
Thank you for making all the effort to translate and record this video in English. As a Saturn fan this is the first time I've seen an exhaustive explanation of the issues leading to the use of "mesh" effect for transparencies and how some games seemed to manage it while others did not. Excellent video!
Just finished watching this for the second time in a few months. This is fascinating stuff; really excellent work, Low Score Boy. You're the High Score Boy for most informative Saturn video :)
Best video i've seen so far about Saturn's hardware, congrats! Also nice to see you have a first run launch model of the gray Saturn, which i have too. You can tell this because the earliest gray models don't have the cartridge input text on the cartridge slot flap, both led's are actually 2 next to each other, & there is a round opening on the left side of the console, probably for a planned fan, which never made it in the retail versions of the system. Great work!! :)
This was a very informative video! Thank you very much for making it. I now have a much better understanding of what people are talking about when they mention the Sega Saturn's issues with half-transparent effects.
Years ago I worked at a company that converted a lot of PS1 games onto Saturn and It was very difficult to work with. A great example of VP1 tranparency was our version of Wipeout 2097, we nearly had it running at 30fps, so close :), we switched on the VP1 trans to see what effect they had and the game dropped to less than 10 FPS :(.
We did Wipeout 1 too which I think plays better than the original, I was a graphic artist there but the programmers were ripping there hair out in frustration at the Saturn, not much Documentation either. Check out our Destruction Derby convertion, we took out the whole floor outside the track, replaced it with a VP2, we hadn't quite figured it out yet so it swims about a bit. We did a Soccer game later with a VP2 pitch and it's locked perfectly. On house of the dead I wanted to rip out the ground on some of the levels and replace it with VP2's but I got over rulled :(.
@manmonkee cool insight. There's plenty of examples of VDP2 transparency effects; it could do transparency effects the PS couldn't. I understand VDP1 doe's have hardware transparency, but because Sega brought forward the release of the Saturn, Sega's engineers never had time to optimise it so it was slow to render. This meant mesh transparencies (which was supposed to be a temporary work-around), became a permament feature. The early release also meant the early development kits were bad with little documention and example code. Is this along the right lines? Be cool if you could explain a little more about this.
Your spot on about bad documentation,, It was a problem with the Saturn, It might of had a cool features but there was no clue from SEGA how to use them. Our programmers spent way over a year trying to figure out VP2 screens ( mode 7). For a company thats a big investment in money. As for transparencies, I worked for 3 weeks in a SEGA building in Haneda when I was doing Manx TT and the Producer who was the SEGA producer on Sonic R told me it was actually a hardware bug, yes a bug IN the chip. It just didn't work, I think when you see trans in 3D games it's generally use of VP2 screens. Also they just didn't look very nice, you'd get that kind of glow effect in PS1 games and the Saturn just made them see through.
Thanks for the reply. Such a shame. If Sega hadn't rushed the release of the Saturn and allowed the hardware guys an extra 8-10 weeks, such problems could've been ironed out. I've always had a soft spot the Saturn's architecture, I could see where they were going with it. But releasing a unique and complex console before it was technically ready and with very little documention or source code, what a huge error! Could've been very different for Sega had they held their nerve and got everything together properly. But what's done is done! Can't change history.
Woah, that was crazy interesting and very comprehensive. Thanks for such an in-depth explanation of VDP1 and VDP2. At last I understand how the Saturn works! Took me twenty years but thanks to you, things are much clearer now!
I know others have done this, but thank you so much for going through the trouble of delivering this in English! It was a great video that informed me to information I did not know before.
I loved this, I absolutely loved this. As someone who spends most of his time studying this industry, it's consoles, history, and cultural impact, it has reached a point where it is getting very difficult to find a bulk of information that I don't know. Today, you were that bulk of information, and I am just blown away not only by your research, but how you presented the information. I cannot thank you enough. I am now a subscriber.
Amazingly in-depth - thank you for re-doing this in English. I caught what you were demonstrating in your non-English videos, but this clarifies a few points I was still unsure of. Thanks again, brilliant attention to detail.
I must have watched this video a dozen times now, it's absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much for creating it and for your hard work in presenting so much information!
love this video!!! Very in-depth, and explains a lot of the issues that made development on SS notoriously difficult. Which is why dev teams like Team Andromeda and AM2 and Treasure even more amazing! They made the SS work miracles! thanks again for this!!
Thank you, this answered so many questions I had about the Saturn's multi-chip design. Also, it helped fill in a lot of my knowledge about the Saturn's management of the transparency issue.
Very impressive video, but you are incorrect about some things on the technical side. Guardian Heroes used VDP2 transparency. It is why things disappear under the sprites: the VDP2 reads the framebuffer pixel, and mixes it with the VDP2 background pixel. The graphics inbetween the two were already overwritten, since VDP1 was drawing opaque sprites. This is the same as the 3d shadows in football games or the magics in Shining Force 3. Silhouette Mirage and Cotton Boomerang does the same too, and so do many others. Basically any effect where a sprite is transparent compared to a background, it is VDP2 transparency. Burning Rangers worked like you describe it, except for one thing: it draws the transparent polygons (fire, windows, light beams, etc) with VDP1 into framebuffer first. Then it copies the framebuffer data to VDP2 memory, and then displays it as a background. VDP2 had up to 32 opacity steps between four backgrounds, not just a single half-transparent setting. VDP1 transparency works by reading the framebuffer, and mixing the values there with your sprite. Since it has to read and write framebuffer, it is 2-3x slower than a normal opaque write. But not 6 times slower! Playstation did transparency the same way, but the Playstation was so much faster that it could afford it. On top of the speed problems, VDP1 transparency also required RGB sprites (they used 2x memory), and did not affect backgrounds (you pointed this out for Keio Flying Squadron 2 and with the gold shield in Sonic R). And, VDP1 transparency was affected by the quad rendering quirk (that you mention during the Game Basic demo). Some pixels of a polygon are written twice, and get transparency applied twice. This problem is the most evident in Magical Hoppers / Pandemonium, or on the ice stage of Tama ~Adventurous Ball in Giddy Labyrinth~. You can also see it in Sonic R (when you step on the booster, you leave a transparent trail), and in Panzer Dragoon 1 (the lasers). But those two are very fast, so very hard to spot the double transparent pixels. VDP2 also has many quirks regarding sprite transparency, and it also depends on VDP1 sprite type (RGB or paletted). VDP2 was extremely complex. Since VDP1 transparency was ugly, slow, and hard to combine with VDP2, it was simpler to use meshes. So the Saturn could do transparency in 3D, but it could not do 3D transparency!
Exactly the transparency he is talking about is not a transparency in a normal sense we talk about. Saturn basically could not do multi transparency on the sprites, its' "transparency" as in (4:28 time) VanGuard is basically assigned a COLOR Shift value (be it Shadow or Highlight in general) which is then applied to the ground layer. I suppose it could have done it by using assembly (as Naughty Dog did with Crash Bandicoot) & write the transparency optimization for transparency into the CPUs (1&2) internal 4KB(8KB total) Cache ram, as well as the 4KB cache ram present on each of the VDPs. Saturn was designed primarily as a very powerful 2D machine that had added 3D capabilities near the end of development cycle due to the fear of Playstation's 3D specs that were leaked relatively close to the release of both consoles.
@@henryrosariogonzalez7870 there was no easy way around it due to the complicated design of the Saturn (8 custom cpus is quite a bit), as i mentioned some of this could be fixed by using assambley code to write directly to CPU/GPU 4KB per chip) system cache ram, perhaps sacrifising 1-2KB for these "see through" FX, but that required a lot of work and quite a skilled programmer.
@@segaunited3855 I'd say they were on par with each other with 3D capabilities. It's just that the PS1 was far easier to program 3D so it looked like it was better than the Saturn. Sega seemed to finally figure out how to push 3D for the Saturn late in its lifespan so if Sega of America had supported the Saturn a few years more we might have had a different outcome in the 32-bit war. But then we probably wouldn't have had the Dreamcast.
Very well done, professional in my opinion. All editing and dialogue was done very well. Aside from that, I learned a lot about Sega Saturn and another of my favorite consoles.
Thank you for the hardware breakdown! I still find the Sega Saturn to be a magnificent machine and to see how inventive the game designers were with the hardware limitations is amazing. A real test of a machine, let alone great developers. We'll probably never see anything like the degree of innovation from the likes of the Sega Saturn again, so I have much respect for its games. True sophistication. Real prestige.
That was excellent! I used to be very fascinated by the Sega Saturn hardware and this explained a lot of things. Thank you! Please make more like this in English!
I have realised something about the Saturn's mesh 'transparency' effect. It seems that with programming skill, you could make these meshes configure differently, so that instead of appearing as a chequerboard mesh, they can appear as horizontal lines (this is seen in Psychic Killer Taromaru) or vertical lines (this is seen in NiGHTS). In the first example, it produces an effect that looks much smoother than the typical mesh.
You did an amazing job with the video, it clarifies a lot about the Saturn's hardware. Really enjoyable video, and had no problem following your words. Thank you for making this.
Very good video my friend. The way that you choose to explain all this problems and questions is terrific. Historicaly transparency issues are knocking factor to undervalue Saturn and your explanation proof that the argument is much more deeper than it seems.
21:15 IMO the graphics of games from this era are beautiful! I know that technically the later generations of consoles are more advanced, but visually I find the old school graphics more pleasing. And the games are more fun.
Thank you for this video. It clarified many things for me regarding Saturn's capabilities and limitations. Also, being able to explain highly technical things in a simple way is something not much people can do. Great job and thumbs up from me! :)
This has to be the best video I've seen explaining the complexity of the Saturn's architecture. Very well done! Many people simply dismiss the Saturn as being technically inferior to the PlayStation. But the truth is not so black and white. Take the CPU for example. A single SH-2 on the Saturn is slightly weaker than the R3000A in the PSX. However, because of the dual CPU setup on the Saturn, it offered up to 50% more raw processing power than the PSX CPU. However, because the Saturn had one single memory bus which the CPUs had to share, one CPU would end up waiting for the other to catch up, thus substantially slowing down it's performance. Because it was very difficult to program both these CPUs in true parallel, most developers opted to program for a single CPU instead, thus leaving the other CPU completely unused. Sega would later provide a better development library that would help developers rectify this flaw, But by the time they got around it, most developers would design 3D games around the much easier to program for, and far more successful PlayStation.
Hello, congratulations for the effort and work to expose pleasurable information! I am Brazilian and rarely encounter content made by young people of such good quality on something old.
I really like this video! I like the fact that you actually knew what you were talking about, instead of just confidently saying assumptions like so many other graphics videos, especially on the Saturn. I feel like I actually learned something, thanks!
I've not even finished the video and already have to comment: absolutely fantastic work. A true and objective look led by true knowledge of the system. Thanks for taking the time, your passion really came through
Thank you for this much detailed video!It is a treasure trove of technical information about the Saturn and the presentation of the graphical techniques is really well thought out with very well chosen illustrative examples. The density of information is mind blowing and I hope you will release further videos!
Thank you very much for going to the trouble of sharing this information with English speakers. This video was fascinating and informative and I'd love to see more like it.
Thank you for this video! I've always wanted to understand the Saturns hardware architecture ever since I heard about development issues with Virtua Fighter back in 94'/95'. This video shed light on all the mystery! Great Job! Nice Work!
Fascinating video. Thank you for making it Low Score Boy. I am impressed by all the ingenuity used by the Saturn developers to achieve the different effects.
I feel like a lot of developers could've taken a que from the previous generation when it comes to transparencies. They could've used an alternating dither pattern every other frame to give the illusion of transparency.
Thanks for making such an indepth video about this subject. Interesting to know. And thank you for the english subtitles too, hopefully seeing them in your other videos too later.
This is the most insightful look at the Sega Saturn's limitations and quirks I have ever seen, and I have been doing on and off research on this system for 12 years. The analysis on Burning Rangers is perhaps the most interesting, and shows what Yuji Naka and the old Sonic Team could do back in the glory days of Sega. Cheers.
I am continually amazed by just how talented the programmers of older generation consoles were. They could do so much with so little by using very clever techniques. Too bad so few people are privy to their artistry and craft.
This video is VERY interesting !!! Especially, it's so kind to give it in English, and later translete by sega-mag.com ! You should continue your video in English and also continue this king of partnership with sega-mag.com, it is opening your videos to a very larger audience. :)
With the arrival of 2022 Radiant Silvergun port, you wonderfully explained Saturn's mesh transparency! This explains the difference between the Saturn-accurate MESH1 option and the modernized "ALPHA" option that has true transparency. I immediately subscribed
Very informative video. I congratulate you for your courage to narrate in English. It was very good and I didn't need to use the subtitles. I will now watch more of your videos. Thank you.
Hm, after re-watching your video, I think I repeated a lot of things you already said in the video. But it was a bit hard to understand at first, the translation was weird. And, for Burning Rangers... the difference between "VDP1 writing to VDP2 directly" and "VDP1 writing to framebuffer, framebuffer is then copied to VDP2" is very subtle, but it makes a lot of difference, because while the rest of the system reads/writes VDP1 memory, the VDP1 is stopped! It is probably also why they used half-resolution for the transparent graphics, so they can copy things out of framebuffer faster.
Excellent video. Thank you for making the effort. The Saturn is a fascinating system and I love learning more about the technical details. I look forward to seeing more of your work.
Thanks for making this. I learned quite a bit. I respect anyone who can explain technology in a way that many people can understand, and do it in a language that is not their native tongue. Great job!
damn, bro. You weren't kidding about being in depth. And don't worry about your english, honestly I understood you fine. Keep working on it, you're doing great.
Thanks for the post! I'm a huge fan of the Saturn and owned one during its era. At the time I wanted the Saturn to succeed because it was created in an interesting way and was impressed when developers can get something amazing out of hardware limitations. I have read a lot on the Saturn's hardware and always wanted to learn more on the specifics of what the limitations and advantages where. I hope you can post more videos on the Saturn. There are some impressive feats on the Saturn. The canceled Shenmue does feature some amazing visiuals.
Excellent video, really informative and I really look forward to your other videos, I watched aspects of your others, but of course couldn't follow but I could tell that you still have lots more to say and we're all waiting. Thanks for all the hard work.
Thank you very much for a very interesting and knowledgeable video on the Saturn hardware. The Saturn is such an fun and interesting console, understanding what makes it tick and how it does it just adds to that!
![[低分少年] SEGA SATURN 畫面表現大驗證](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IIjo2clyqvU/mqdefault.jpg)
![[低分少年] SEGA SATURN 畫面表現大驗證](/img/tr.png)
Very fun and interesting video to watch. Some of the information I already knew just by guessing but a lot of the information I did not know. Thanks for making this video!
Joe haha.
Game Sack gotta be joe.... much love him
hey, makes sense seeing game sack around here! love you guys!
Thanks, GameSack for supporting also.
TH-cam is full of professional opinionators specialists in emulation. A bunch of know-it-all kids.
Thanks for making this in english!! ^_^
Great In-deph video! I ♥ the Saturn!!
Fantastic video!. Honestly man, the fact that English is your second language, yet you still apply so much effort into making these videos are highly commended. You're a true gaming historian, keep up the great work :)
I came here to say exactly this. I really enjoyed this video and I totally agree with his sentiment that it's very interesting to learn about the efforts to make certain hardware do tricks it was never designed to do.
I know I’m a little late to the party 🎉 but I found this to be a fascinating video!
…and as a native English speaker, let me say “Well done Sir and thank you for your willingness and effort to make this video accessible to a western-Anglo audience!”
ごくろうさまです。
Very thorough! I've never seen a better explanation for why the hardware behaves the way it does when rendering transparencies and other visual effects. Thank you for taking the time to make this!
間隔了許久的新影片...不是真的新影片，而是先前「SEGA SATURN畫面表現大驗證」的英文版。
原本以為做外語版本應該不是很麻煩的事情，結果，才錄沒幾句英語旁白我就有著強烈的後悔感XD 雖然最後成品是出來了，但不知道外國朋友們聽不聽得懂啊...如果您有外國玩家朋友，請試著跟他們分享看看。
然後，關於真正的新影片製作進度嘛...你知道最近遊戲大作有點多，相對的擠壓到我能夠投入影片製作的時間XD，畢竟不玩遊戲的人，是不可能製作出好的遊戲雜談影片的嘛，就請各位再多寬容些，等我打完《人中之龍0》就...(喂
Low Score Boy Brother, I just have to thank , that you have taken the initiative to make an analysis by addressing the technical aspects of Saturn ! It is fascinating to see the creative ways that some developers have to overcome some shortcomings in the hardware , the fact that developers do something that at first the hardware would not do , is the instigator ! Congratulations on the video, even though he translated from English to Portuguese , the result was very good! If you can make more videos like this , it will be great! If you can answer me , I have a doubt ! Do you believe that the Ram cart, could bring some benefit to the 3D games on Saturn ? If so, what ? Big hug!
Nelson Julio Meloni Thanks! About the RAM cart, it mostly works as cache, to reduce the loading time. I think it won't benefit much in 3D graphics.
***** Only Sega or Yu Suzuki can confirm this question...
Nelson Julio Meloni
I have a gut feeling the DSP inside the Saturn could be utilized to enhance 3D performance.
If i recall correctly i think i remember Yu Suzuki remarking that's how they got the amazing gfx on a Saturn Shenmue (stock saturn).
I'm not an expert (i'm a coder not hardware engineer) and as i say this is merely conjecture, but DSP's normally have much much better floating point performance than traditional CPU'S. Floating point is utilized alot in 3D applications.
Maybe some 1 more knowledgeable could give more info, Would also love to learn more about the ram packs and there potential for enhancing the system
+Low Score Boy
You make fantastic videos man, and this was the first video I'd seen from you, instant like and subscription! In fact, I might make a video about the Sega Saturn soon as this inspired some more curiosity on my part, and if I get around to it, I'll absolutely make a mention of this video and you're channel. Please keep up the good work and I'd be eager to see more videos about the Sega Saturn : )
Also, in relation to your questions +Nelson Julio Meloni, I'm not sure if it's accurate but I've heard since the Saturn displays it's 3d graphics using distorted sprites, and the 4mb cart allows the Saturn to use more sprites and frames of animation, a clever programmer could possibly get it to improve 3d performance, but who truly knows? Final Fight Revenge is a 3d game that uses it, but not in a way to increase graphical performance necessarily I don't think.
It's really a great reverse engineering work. It's almost a hardware case study of the Saturn architecture. You can earn from some university a master of hardware design with this. Congratulations!
Hi Low Score Boy, I'm French and i'm a big fan of the sega Saturn. First, i would like to congratulate you about this great video which explain how Saturn work to manage transparencies and 3D with VDP1 and VDP2. If it's possible, I would like your oppinion about transparencies effect in D-XHIRD game. In fact, I found that there are goods tricks to make transparence. Thanks in advance and continue to provide good video like this one.
Thank you very much for doing this video in English. This was very interesting as someone who makes videos here on TH-cam for the Sega Saturn and a huge Sega Saturn fan.
Carters Retro Reviews What games you working on for Saturn ?
+Andrew's Channel, Featuring Project AXSX (A Sonic X-treme Inspired FanGame) And other random vids Holy shit, I am sorry I didn't respond to this originally Andrew. I totally missed this. But I just got a new computer so when that is up and running 100%, I will be working on reviews like crazy. I have been slack for the last 2-3 months because life has been so crazy. I lost my job of 7 years, started a new job, got a dog, a new car and a Wii-U. Most nights after work since the job has changed, all I want to do is chill and play Wii-U or watch TV/a movie. I did entertain the idea of starting a podcast which ultimately has everything I did during the week and anything else I want to talk about. It might still become something but not yet. Anyway, long story short I have 5 games in the pipeline and since I've been having a binge on basketball games and I will tell you what I told everyone on my facebook fan page: I am working on my next review which is NBA Action 98. Then to switch it up, it will be NBA Live 97. Then for a change of pace, NBA Live 98. Then for something different, straight into Slam'n Jam '96 featuring Magic & Kareem. Then College Slam because I'm just trollin you all - lol.
+Carters Retro Reviews That's life than we die. XD
Looking forwards to more.
Andrew's Channel, Featuring Project AXSX (A Sonic X-treme Inspired FanGame) And other random vids Thanks! :)
+Carters Retro Reviews Bring Sonic Robo Blast 2 to the Saturn.
Very interesting, thanks. My only suggestion for future english videos is to edit and talk a little slower, and showing a little bit more gameplay footage following each example so it's easier to follow for those of us not familiar with all the technical terms.
One question about the meshes: Why didn't more developers use high resolution meshes instead since the result is pretty good even with RGB and S Video? Was it too taxing for the console?
On a side note, the SSF emulator allows for blending meshes, which makes them look almost like half-transparent layers instead, though the result is not perfect (the edges still look pixelated).
Alianger yeah, running games in high resolution of Saturn(640*480 interlaced or 704*480 interlaced) was taxing. Most Saturn games using high resolution are 3D fighting games, that only needs to draw two characters. Even if lighting shading effect was needed, like Fighting Vipers, Saturn is unable to run it in high resolution.
much respect for this video... great job man.
Great video. Your English is infinitely better than my Taiwanese, so please don't apologize. :) Keep up the awesome work!
What an excellent video! I was one of the few American Saturn fans. I was actually an unabashed Sega fanboy for years. I'm sorry that I cannot compliment you in your native language. I can now at least pretend that I'm smarter after watching this. Again, well done sir.
Great video, the best explanation i have ever seen about the graphical capabilities of the Saturn. Thanks a lot!
Wow, that has to be the most informative and factual video I have ever seen on the Saturn's technical limitations and strengths. With the subtitles I could clearly hear and understand you. I hope you do more in English. Thanks and I will now subscribe!
Hey Ant, get ready for RAZOR!!!!!
This was an outstanding video. I learned a lot about the Saturn's VDP abilities, as well as the challenges inherent in its complex design. Like you, I always appreciate the skill programmers employ to push computers far beyond their original (conceived) limits. This goes back to the beginning of videogames, as shown in the excellent book, "Racing the Beam." I would also add (this was mentioned in the video) that people used CRT TVs in those days, and most often connected their game systems via RF cable. The dithered transparency effect appears smooth on those screens. Even composite on modern HDTVs will preserve this smoothness, which is closer to what the programmers intended. Those viewing classic videogames on emulators and digital displays are seeing a picture that is far more pixelated than it was originally seen. Anyway, I would enjoy another Saturn video, this has been extremely informative and fascinating. Arigatou!
+daniel thomas I have ALWAYS used A/V for Saturn game display. Even in 1997.
The pixelated look has also something to do with what signal you are using. RGB-signals on a CRT also look more pixelated than composite on e.g. Playstation and Saturn, but the increased picture clarity and brighter colours make up for that in bounds. Consoles like the Master System, Genesis, Saturn, SNES and Playstation were RGB-capable out of the box, you just needed a RGB SCART cable to take advantage of it. By the end of the 90's at least, SCART inputs on consumer TVs were so common in Europe that almost anyone could get RGB quality out of their consoles.
The main difference between 240p content on CRTs and LCD/LED-displays in my experience is how the latter fails to scale the image properly, the lack of scanlines on LCD make the sprites more blocky, and the vibrancy of the CRT colors is far superior. If you have the choice and opportunity, nothing beats RGB on a CRT for 240p content, but the second best is using RGB over expensive quality upscalers like the XRGB Mini Framemeister and OSSC for digital displays.
I use an S-Video cable on my 50 inch plasma and it looks quite a bit better than the original composite cables that came with the system.
Your video is so unique! I have never seen a video like yours! I really like the way you present the facts. Thank you so much for sharing this video. Long live Sega Saturn :)
Wow! Somebody finally explains VDP 1 and VDP 2! Thanks!
Thank you for making all the effort to translate and record this video in English. As a Saturn fan this is the first time I've seen an exhaustive explanation of the issues leading to the use of "mesh" effect for transparencies and how some games seemed to manage it while others did not. Excellent video!
Thanks for the video , Sega Saturn is my favorite console of all time ....
Just finished watching this for the second time in a few months. This is fascinating stuff; really excellent work, Low Score Boy. You're the High Score Boy for most informative Saturn video :)
He explained about his tag name. He was always high score at school but low score on video games.
He explained about his tag name. He was always high score at school but low score on video games.
He explained about his tag name. He was always high score at school but low score on video games.
Wow this is very very impressive and very technical. While also good explanation so newbies can actually understand.
Best video i've seen so far about Saturn's hardware, congrats! Also nice to see you have a first run launch model of the gray Saturn, which i have too. You can tell this because the earliest gray models don't have the cartridge input text on the cartridge slot flap, both led's are actually 2 next to each other, & there is a round opening on the left side of the console, probably for a planned fan, which never made it in the retail versions of the system.
Great work!! :)
This was a very informative video! Thank you very much for making it. I now have a much better understanding of what people are talking about when they mention the Sega Saturn's issues with half-transparent effects.
Years ago I worked at a company that converted a lot of PS1 games onto Saturn and It was very difficult to work with. A great example of VP1 tranparency was our version of Wipeout 2097, we nearly had it running at 30fps, so close :), we switched on the VP1 trans to see what effect they had and the game dropped to less than 10 FPS :(.
wow, Wipeout 2097 on Saturn is a good port!
We did Wipeout 1 too which I think plays better than the original, I was
a graphic artist there but the programmers were ripping there hair out
in frustration at the Saturn, not much Documentation either. Check out
our Destruction Derby convertion, we took out the whole floor outside
the track, replaced it with a VP2, we hadn't quite figured it out yet so
it swims about a bit. We did a Soccer game later with a VP2 pitch and
it's locked perfectly. On house of the dead I wanted to rip out the
ground on some of the levels and replace it with VP2's but I got over
rulled :(.
@manmonkee cool insight. There's plenty of examples of VDP2 transparency effects; it could do transparency effects the PS couldn't. I understand VDP1 doe's have hardware transparency, but because Sega brought forward the release of the Saturn, Sega's engineers never had time to optimise it so it was slow to render. This meant mesh transparencies (which was supposed to be a temporary work-around), became a permament feature. The early release also meant the early development kits were bad with little documention and example code. Is this along the right lines? Be cool if you could explain a little more about this.
Your spot on about bad documentation,, It was a problem with the Saturn, It might of had a cool features but there was no clue from SEGA how to use them. Our programmers spent way over a year trying to figure out VP2 screens ( mode 7). For a company thats a big investment in money. As for transparencies, I worked for 3 weeks in a SEGA building in Haneda when I was doing Manx TT and the Producer who was the SEGA producer on Sonic R told me it was actually a hardware bug, yes a bug IN the chip. It just didn't work, I think when you see trans in 3D games it's generally use of VP2 screens. Also they just didn't look very nice, you'd get that kind of glow effect in PS1 games and the Saturn just made them see through.
Thanks for the reply. Such a shame. If Sega hadn't rushed the release of the Saturn and allowed the hardware guys an extra 8-10 weeks, such problems could've been ironed out. I've always had a soft spot the Saturn's architecture, I could see where they were going with it. But releasing a unique and complex console before it was technically ready and with very little documention or source code, what a huge error! Could've been very different for Sega had they held their nerve and got everything together properly. But what's done is done! Can't change history.
Woah, that was crazy interesting and very comprehensive. Thanks for such an in-depth explanation of VDP1 and VDP2. At last I understand how the Saturn works! Took me twenty years but thanks to you, things are much clearer now!
I know others have done this, but thank you so much for going through the trouble of delivering this in English! It was a great video that informed me to information I did not know before.
I loved this, I absolutely loved this. As someone who spends most of his time studying this industry, it's consoles, history, and cultural impact, it has reached a point where it is getting very difficult to find a bulk of information that I don't know.
Today, you were that bulk of information, and I am just blown away not only by your research, but how you presented the information. I cannot thank you enough.
I am now a subscriber.
Amazingly in-depth - thank you for re-doing this in English. I caught what you were demonstrating in your non-English videos, but this clarifies a few points I was still unsure of. Thanks again, brilliant attention to detail.
Wow you are being cited in a french book called "The 32-Bits War" for this precise video, your opinion about the Saturn Graphics potential. nice !
This book?
www.editionspixnlove.com/LHistoire-du-Jeu-Video/Pix-n-Love-HS-1-PlayStation-VS-Saturn/flypage.tpl.html
That's really a honor!
Yes this one :) ! And you deserves it sir ! Loving your videos !
I must have watched this video a dozen times now, it's absolutely fascinating. Thank you so much for creating it and for your hard work in presenting so much information!
Thanks for your hard work. Your research and presentation is much appreciated. Please do not shy away from making more english language videos.
love this video!!! Very in-depth, and explains a lot of the issues that made development on SS notoriously difficult. Which is why dev teams like Team Andromeda and AM2 and Treasure even more amazing! They made the SS work miracles! thanks again for this!!
+U NiqUtilities Early on.
Dude, this video is seriously amazing. Thanks for providing such interesting in-depth analysis!
Thank you for this, awesome of you to do in English and with subtitles. Your English is really good! Subscribed! Be well buddy!
Fascinating video, thank you for taking the time to do this. I love Sega and the Saturn so this was a real treat to watch.
谢谢你给我们打了字幕。 This video is a fantastic look into the Saturn architecture. Looking forward to more like this.
Thank you, this answered so many questions I had about the Saturn's multi-chip design. Also, it helped fill in a lot of my knowledge about the Saturn's management of the transparency issue.
+Jeff Apellido Both Saturn and N64 were limited by their SDK designs early on. Less programmable RAM limited their capabilities.
Very impressive video, but you are incorrect about some things on the technical side.
Guardian Heroes used VDP2 transparency. It is why things disappear under the sprites: the VDP2 reads the framebuffer pixel, and mixes it with the VDP2 background pixel. The graphics inbetween the two were already overwritten, since VDP1 was drawing opaque sprites. This is the same as the 3d shadows in football games or the magics in Shining Force 3. Silhouette Mirage and Cotton Boomerang does the same too, and so do many others. Basically any effect where a sprite is transparent compared to a background, it is VDP2 transparency.
Burning Rangers worked like you describe it, except for one thing: it draws the transparent polygons (fire, windows, light beams, etc) with VDP1 into framebuffer first. Then it copies the framebuffer data to VDP2 memory, and then displays it as a background.
VDP2 had up to 32 opacity steps between four backgrounds, not just a single half-transparent setting.
VDP1 transparency works by reading the framebuffer, and mixing the values there with your sprite. Since it has to read and write framebuffer, it is 2-3x slower than a normal opaque write. But not 6 times slower! Playstation did transparency the same way, but the Playstation was so much faster that it could afford it.
On top of the speed problems, VDP1 transparency also required RGB sprites (they used 2x memory), and did not affect backgrounds (you pointed this out for Keio Flying Squadron 2 and with the gold shield in Sonic R).
And, VDP1 transparency was affected by the quad rendering quirk (that you mention during the Game Basic demo). Some pixels of a polygon are written twice, and get transparency applied twice. This problem is the most evident in Magical Hoppers / Pandemonium, or on the ice stage of Tama ~Adventurous Ball in Giddy Labyrinth~. You can also see it in Sonic R (when you step on the booster, you leave a transparent trail), and in Panzer Dragoon 1 (the lasers). But those two are very fast, so very hard to spot the double transparent pixels.
VDP2 also has many quirks regarding sprite transparency, and it also depends on VDP1 sprite type (RGB or paletted). VDP2 was extremely complex.
Since VDP1 transparency was ugly, slow, and hard to combine with VDP2, it was simpler to use meshes. So the Saturn could do transparency in 3D, but it could not do 3D transparency!
and how could you solve this problem?
Exactly the transparency he is talking about is not a transparency in a normal sense we talk about. Saturn basically could not do multi transparency on the sprites, its' "transparency" as in (4:28 time) VanGuard is basically assigned a COLOR Shift value (be it Shadow or Highlight in general) which is then applied to the ground layer.
I suppose it could have done it by using assembly (as Naughty Dog did with Crash Bandicoot) & write the transparency optimization for transparency into the CPUs (1&2) internal 4KB(8KB total) Cache ram, as well as the 4KB cache ram present on each of the VDPs.
Saturn was designed primarily as a very powerful 2D machine that had added 3D capabilities near the end of development cycle due to the fear of Playstation's 3D specs that were leaked relatively close to the release of both consoles.
@@henryrosariogonzalez7870 there was no easy way around it due to the complicated design of the Saturn (8 custom cpus is quite a bit), as i mentioned some of this could be fixed by using assambley code to write directly to CPU/GPU 4KB per chip) system cache ram, perhaps sacrifising 1-2KB for these "see through" FX, but that required a lot of work and quite a skilled programmer.
@@mOczakowski PS1's 3D is actually inferior to Saturn's, not Just N64.
@@segaunited3855 I'd say they were on par with each other with 3D capabilities. It's just that the PS1 was far easier to program 3D so it looked like it was better than the Saturn. Sega seemed to finally figure out how to push 3D for the Saturn late in its lifespan so if Sega of America had supported the Saturn a few years more we might have had a different outcome in the 32-bit war. But then we probably wouldn't have had the Dreamcast.
This was a very awesome video! All the in-depth talk about the Saturn's hardware made me learn so much more about the console. Thanks!
Very well done, professional in my opinion. All editing and dialogue was done very well. Aside from that, I learned a lot about Sega Saturn and another of my favorite consoles.
Thank you for the hardware breakdown! I still find the Sega Saturn to be a magnificent machine and to see how inventive the game designers were with the hardware limitations is amazing. A real test of a machine, let alone great developers. We'll probably never see anything like the degree of innovation from the likes of the Sega Saturn again, so I have much respect for its games. True sophistication. Real prestige.
That was excellent! I used to be very fascinated by the Sega Saturn hardware and this explained a lot of things. Thank you! Please make more like this in English!
This was an AMAZING video. So many examples, and presented so clearly. Thank you!
Awesome video. I loved and miss my Saturn, but the meshes always stood out. Wonderful to finally have the full story.
I have realised something about the Saturn's mesh 'transparency' effect. It seems that with programming skill, you could make these meshes configure differently, so that instead of appearing as a chequerboard mesh, they can appear as horizontal lines (this is seen in Psychic Killer Taromaru) or vertical lines (this is seen in NiGHTS). In the first example, it produces an effect that looks much smoother than the typical mesh.
Wow my friend....I learn new things about my SATURN!!
You did an amazing job with the video, it clarifies a lot about the Saturn's hardware.
Really enjoyable video, and had no problem following your words.
Thank you for making this.
Very good video my friend. The way that you choose to explain all this problems and questions is terrific. Historicaly transparency issues are knocking factor to undervalue Saturn and your explanation proof that the argument is much more deeper than it seems.
Thanks!
I understood 1/3 of the talking but the video helped me get half the message and I am completely sure the Saturn's architecture was a MESS.
Complex, but certainly the most powerful of its generation. VF2 proved that.
Wow brilliant video, very interesting and you explained very technical information in an accessible way.
Big thumbs up from me.
21:15 IMO the graphics of games from this era are beautiful! I know that technically the later generations of consoles are more advanced, but visually I find the old school graphics more pleasing. And the games are more fun.
You're a hero, man! Thanks for making this video. It was very informative and entertaining!
Thank you for this video. It clarified many things for me regarding Saturn's capabilities and limitations. Also, being able to explain highly technical things in a simple way is something not much people can do. Great job and thumbs up from me! :)
Thank you for doing this in english, it is much appreciated
This has to be the best video I've seen explaining the complexity of the Saturn's architecture. Very well done!
Many people simply dismiss the Saturn as being technically inferior to the PlayStation. But the truth is not so black and white.
Take the CPU for example. A single SH-2 on the Saturn is slightly weaker than the R3000A in the PSX. However, because of the dual CPU setup on the Saturn, it offered up to 50% more raw processing power than the PSX CPU.
However, because the Saturn had one single memory bus which the CPUs had to share, one CPU would end up waiting for the other to catch up, thus substantially slowing down it's performance. Because it was very difficult to program both these CPUs in true parallel, most developers opted to program for a single CPU instead, thus leaving the other CPU completely unused.
Sega would later provide a better development library that would help developers rectify this flaw, But by the time they got around it, most developers would design 3D games around the much easier to program for, and far more successful PlayStation.
Hello, congratulations for the effort and work to expose pleasurable information!
I am Brazilian and rarely encounter content made by young people of such good quality on something old.
This is probably my most favorite video talking about the Sega Saturn.
I really like this video! I like the fact that you actually knew what you were talking about, instead of just confidently saying assumptions like so many other graphics videos, especially on the Saturn. I feel like I actually learned something, thanks!
I've not even finished the video and already have to comment: absolutely fantastic work. A true and objective look led by true knowledge of the system. Thanks for taking the time, your passion really came through
Saturn's not just a killer system in 2D but in 3D as well. Thx you !
Thank you for this much detailed video!It is a treasure trove of technical information about the Saturn and the presentation of the graphical techniques is really well thought out with very well chosen illustrative examples. The density of information is mind blowing and I hope you will release further videos!
Thank you very much for going to the trouble of sharing this information with English speakers. This video was fascinating and informative and I'd love to see more like it.
Thank you for this most informative breakdown of my most beloved console of all time!
You have my respect and admiration :)
Thank you for this video! I've always wanted to understand the Saturns hardware architecture ever since I heard about development issues with Virtua Fighter back in 94'/95'. This video shed light on all the mystery! Great Job! Nice Work!
Fascinating video. Thank you for making it Low Score Boy. I am impressed by all the ingenuity used by the Saturn developers to achieve the different effects.
I feel like a lot of developers could've taken a que from the previous generation when it comes to transparencies. They could've used an alternating dither pattern every other frame to give the illusion of transparency.
There were Several Developers that did Exactly that.
Thanks for making such an indepth video about this subject. Interesting to know. And thank you for the english subtitles too, hopefully seeing them in your other videos too later.
This is the most insightful look at the Sega Saturn's limitations and quirks I have ever seen, and I have been doing on and off research on this system for 12 years. The analysis on Burning Rangers is perhaps the most interesting, and shows what Yuji Naka and the old Sonic Team could do back in the glory days of Sega. Cheers.
I am continually amazed by just how talented the programmers of older generation consoles were. They could do so much with so little by using very clever techniques. Too bad so few people are privy to their artistry and craft.
If more people cared about game development like this, fans & game developers would have a better relationship. Thank you for your passion.
That's the most comprehensive analysis of the Saturn graphics. Great job! I guess you have a DevKit to be able to do all this?
This video is VERY interesting !!! Especially, it's so kind to give it in English, and later translete by sega-mag.com ! You should continue your video in English and also continue this king of partnership with sega-mag.com, it is opening your videos to a very larger audience. :)
With the arrival of 2022 Radiant Silvergun port, you wonderfully explained Saturn's mesh transparency! This explains the difference between the Saturn-accurate MESH1 option and the modernized "ALPHA" option that has true transparency. I immediately subscribed
Very informative video. I congratulate you for your courage to narrate in English. It was very good and I didn't need to use the subtitles. I will now watch more of your videos. Thank you.
Thank you so much!!!
Please feel free to add subtitles to your other amazing Saturn videos.
It's appreciated.
Hm, after re-watching your video, I think I repeated a lot of things you already said in the video. But it was a bit hard to understand at first, the translation was weird.
And, for Burning Rangers... the difference between "VDP1 writing to VDP2 directly" and "VDP1 writing to framebuffer, framebuffer is then copied to VDP2" is very subtle, but it makes a lot of difference, because while the rest of the system reads/writes VDP1 memory, the VDP1 is stopped!
It is probably also why they used half-resolution for the transparent graphics, so they can copy things out of framebuffer faster.
Excellent video. Thank you for making the effort. The Saturn is a fascinating system and I love learning more about the technical details. I look forward to seeing more of your work.
Great video to watch, thanks for making it. I'm sure I will have to watch it more than once to understand better but your work is appreciated!
You are amazingly perceptive and knowledgeable. You earned yourself a new subscriber.
Thanks for making this. I learned quite a bit. I respect anyone who can explain technology in a way that many people can understand, and do it in a language that is not their native tongue. Great job!
damn, bro. You weren't kidding about being in depth. And don't worry about your english, honestly I understood you fine. Keep working on it, you're doing great.
Thanks for the post! I'm a huge fan of the Saturn and owned one during its era. At the time I wanted the Saturn to succeed because it was created in an interesting way and was impressed when developers can get something amazing out of hardware limitations. I have read a lot on the Saturn's hardware and always wanted to learn more on the specifics of what the limitations and advantages where. I hope you can post more videos on the Saturn. There are some impressive feats on the Saturn. The canceled Shenmue does feature some amazing visiuals.
Excellent video, really informative and I really look forward to your other videos, I watched aspects of your others, but of course couldn't follow but I could tell that you still have lots more to say and we're all waiting. Thanks for all the hard work.
Very informative.
Thank you very much for the effort to include English and English subtitles in your videos!
This is my new favorite channel. Awesome video!
Fantastic video, thank you for the effort and time you put in for us English speakers. It is greatly appreciated!
Thank you very much for a very interesting and knowledgeable video on the Saturn hardware. The Saturn is such an fun and interesting console, understanding what makes it tick and how it does it just adds to that!
Thank you for such a well researched analysis in English. Fascinating and entertaining!
Thankyou for making this. I learned alot. A fascinating exploration into the limitations and some genius solutions employed. Well done.
Thank you for making this video! Hugely informative and entertaining! I Can't wait to see what you produce next!!!
Excellent video! I have always been interested in knowing more about the Saturns unusual architecture and working with it's hardware limitations.
很不錯，我是大陸網友。你的視頻我是在別的網站上看的，後來跑到油管上把其他的都看了一遍。這個英文版做的很用心，辛苦了。
A very informative and well constructed video! I never thought Saturn's technical prowess could be so interesting!
Great video, this is my favorite console of all time! thanks!
Incredible video. As a Sega Saturn fan, I appreciated it. Thanks!
yeah and to me it was the best looking console of all time
Absolutely amazing technical break down. Learned so much.
an excellent in-depth description of an underrated and mismanaged system. great video!
this was excellent !!! a lot of informations i never heard anywhere else !!! i hope this channel is still alive !!
This is just brilliant as a fan of hardware architecture.Amazing work man thank you so much.