Totally agree. These are completely different to even the cheapo Citronics I had m back in the day. I’m hoping the Reloop 7000s will be better. Can’t decide if this is just something I need to get used to, but they’re just so unpredictable sometimes it’s hard to see how you could. Thanks for the comment.
@@JonGTranceClassics I have heard that all of the Super OEM decks such as Audio Technica, Reloop, Stanton and so on are pretty much the same thing, and share the same internals.. Apparently the Technics SL-1200 Mk7's are the best modern decks (with digital pitch ) to mix on.
Buy Technics!! I have Technics SL1200/SL1210 MK2’s and still working perfectly after 20 years. 👍 Btw. It’s always good to see someone playing real vinyl in these digital usb-stick/controller times! Keep it going! 😊
Totally agreed. I’m kicking myself for not getting them back in the day, but could only just afford the direct drive ones I had… plus they left more money to spend on vinyl so I suppose I wouldn’t have as good a collection if I had. I did a little test just after uploading this video and by just using the pitch and not touching the platter at all, the 120s behave much much better. I plan on trying to put a mix together to fully test that theory. I’m not sure I can justify the cost of new mk7s, especially knowing they’re in many ways inferior to the mk2s. My issue with buying used mk2s is that I won’t know their history, and could be setting myself up for big disappointment. I’m leaning more towards the RP7000s at the minute, but going in eyes open understanding the Super OEM limitations.
@@JonGTranceClassics last time I looked there was a seller on eBay, I think based in Chichester in Sussex that sells almost new condition mk2's with box, instructions, dust cover etc and a warranty. Not cheap though!
Same happened to me. it was super frustrating because Im new at this. I thought I was beatmatching it the wrong way for a week.You have the mix right and it suddenly goes super fast. I tried to fix it but I end up returning it.
Looking forward to listening to your mixes when you get your new Decks Jon. Coz I think your doing very well with the ones your useing now. There will be no stopping you pal. That’s what we want to hear and music to the Ears 👍🇮🇪..!
Thank you! RP7000s have been purchased. Just one last mix to upload on the 120s then I'll be uploading an RP7000. Got some awesome vinyl coming too, so very excited to share it with you guys.
It’s a pleasure to listen to your Mix’s Jon. Vinyl’s are the only way forward. Like watching Earth from space jus going around and around, except your mix’s play some Cracking Tunes 🎶🔊. Keep up the great work Jon & it’s great to listen to your Mixes 👌🇮🇪..!
Been having this same problem! Really quite tricky to pull off longer blends as they just don't hold the pitch enough, and needs constant attention to keep in time which can very quickly sound messy! after mixing on some 1210s with no problem, you really start to notice it!
Bonjour !cette video tombe bien...Donc comme je vais investir dans une paire de platines a l'avebir ,d'ici quelques mois ! En voyant cetre video je vais me tourner soit vers la plx 500 pioneer ,j'ai vue des vidéos et elle fait bien le boulot car elle tien sa vitesse constante ou alors la audio technica atlp 140 xp SV mais si mon budget le permet je prends les mk7 comme j'ai eux des Mk2 voilà ya pas photo...on veut reprendre des technics si le budget le permet ...Merci pour cette vidéo ,ca permet de voire un point qui n'avait pas été fait en vidéo ...super Merci .
How is pitch stability in terms of "wow" - ie playing piano music? Im not concerned with sudden spinning or other problems as I don't DJ any more and am told that direct drives have less "wow" . Thanks in advance!
I’ve got Reloop RP7000s now as the ATs were only on loan to me. How did you manage to fix it on yours, my friend may be interested when he gets them back!
@@JonGTranceClassics HI. the solution was very simple. the problem of loss of laps, in my two turntables audio technica lp120 usb, was only on 33 rpm. it was enough to set the turntable to 45 and I no longer lost rpm. I use serato dvs and once I set serato to 45 rpm everything was fine. however I have now bought two 1200 mk2s and now it's a whole other story. Technics is always Technics
@@JonGTranceClassics eu consegui melhorar o meu com simples detalhes, colei borrachas no fundo do prato giratório, dando mais peso o pitch fica mais preciso, pode até dá mexer prato com a mão, não sai mais fácil as músicas
I have both AT120 and Reloop 7000mk 2 and they are all difficult to perform long blends due to Cogging when slowing down the platter.the control ic tries to speed up the deck to what it thinks it should be while touching the platter or spindle , then jump back to correct speed instantly throwing the mix out.that’s the best way I can explain what’s happening.
This is excellent information thanks. Would you say the RP7000 is much better than the AT120 for the cogging? Tbh, I know the 120 gets bad reviews but this is pretty much the only problem I have with it, so if the RP7000 is the same, I’d be disappointed for sure.
@@JonGTranceClassics the RP7000 mk2 is a better turntable with less cogging than the AT120 ,Technics 1210/1200 mk7 (new production models from red bull onwards) have had the pitch issues fixed and hold a mix like the MK2.look up Just technics on TH-cam he has done in-depth reviews and explains a lot in his videos.
Thank you! Yeah, seen Jay’s videos and have a lot of respect for the guy. It looks like the only answer is the 12s! I almost feel like it’s either the AT120s (the ones I have are on loan), or the 1210 mk7s if you want new decks, from a value perspective. The RP7000s seem like they’d be disappointing. I guess I need to rewatch Jay’s videos to get a better idea. Thank you so much for your comments. It’s great to get the feedback directly from someone who’s tried the ATs and the Reloops in real life so I really appreciate what you say. Thanks again and enjoy the rest of the weekend.
@@Mark_S_74 I've mentioned in another comment but I made a video that really demonstrates how bad the issue is on mine: th-cam.com/video/eoMYMD9nefo/w-d-xo.html - separate channel to hopefully keep copyright free. RP7000 video will be coming up once I've had chance to do a good full mix on them! So far, I love them and they don't appear to have the same issues (I guess because of the stronger motor). Time will tell. Thanks again mate.
I played trance on reloop rp4000mk2 for 4 years. They are 120 in different body, identical hanpin internals. Pitch is stable, but main issue is how pitch controls the motor speed. Slider itself is analog (variable resistor basically) but then voltage goes thru ADC and it has quite big "steps", so you either play track sligtly slower or slightly faster but you cant sync perfectly if you are at the "step" border. Quite annoying. Otherwise they are great for their price.
You’re spot on. I was actually very impressed with how long they’d hold. The biggest issue I had was due to the pitch being so steppy as you say, you end up needing to make adjustments, but then if you need to slow down by touching the platter or the label, the circuitry tries to overcompensate and ends up speeding the record up pretty wildly, completely throwing the mix off. Little nudges up didn’t seem to be a problem so I tried to work to that. Pitch riding to make adjustments seemed to have more predictable results, but back to the steppiness it was easy to end up way off where you were before. Basically, I found these cheaper OEMs are hard work 😓 and I’m not convinced that’s a good thing, like learning on belt drives is. They’re just unpredictable! Really appreciate the comment. I’m probably going to put another video together with a few observations.
@@JonGTranceClassics well, realising i cant sync i usually let the new track play slightly faster as it is faster and easier to slow it down abit while doing transition with finger pushing strobe dots instead of trying to push forward. Mine didnt try to "fight the mix" so i had no issues here. But mk2 have +-8 range while 120 have +-10, so mk2 are slightly newer edition. Maybe some improvements were made who knows... Anyway i switched to sl1200mk2 and THERE was this famous "deck fighting the mix" issue so i had to desolder resistor and cut one wire to disable quartz stabilizer. Ofcourse i am not authorized to give you any advises but if you are getting back into vinyl world and prefer long transitions (as trance requires actually) then i would suggest to buy 1200mk7. They have some flaws but for home more than enough. It will simply be another level.
@@Blaulicht1120 I've actually managed to catch the issue on video. I think you're right about the +/- 10 range and maybe some internal improvements causing the issues. I've made another channel for the copyright free content, but here's a link to the video I created: th-cam.com/video/eoMYMD9nefo/w-d-xo.html Thanks again for the comments. Jon.
@@JonGTranceClassics yep its cogging. Basically deck is trying to compensate phase difference in expected rotation speed and actual. You slowed it down too much (over 1 rotation), it tries to upspeed platter to fix this delay. I usually slow down records by gentle finger press on record edge. This prevents applying strong forces on platter itself, so record is slowed down but platter doesnt have problems to rotate underneath. Try this technique, maybe it will improve your exlerience with existing decks.
Jon, you're better off buying a pair of good second hand Mk2's, M3D's , M5K5's, or if you want a new pair of decks, i have read people highly recommending the new Technics Mk7's
Yeah, totally agreed. My concern with the mk2s is the unknown history of a used pair, and the mk7s are so much more expensive than a super OEM such as the Reloop and allegedly not worth the extra. I’ve just done a few test mixes and even the 120s behave much better riding the pitch and leaving the platter well alone. Perhaps it’s just an adjustment I need to make? Appreciate all the comments on this.
@@JonGTranceClassics if you do decide to buy a pair of Mk2's , M3D's or MK5's, you can speak to Jay at just Technics who services Technics Turntables down in Colchester. He will give you some some brilliant advice on what to look out for when buying second hand Technics. He's also got a bunch of videos showing what to look out for when buying second hand if you decide to do so.
@@AmbientWanderer I ended up with some RP7000s (brand new). I've got one last mix that I did on the 120s which I need to upload, and for that I used the pitch to beatmatch rather than touching the record, and they behaved much much better. I've not done a full set on the Reloops yet, but from the little jams I've done so far, they're night and day easier to mix with. I'll get a mix together with them and upload it soon, just waiting on the last few records to arrive. Appreciate all the comments. Also, even though I didn't by 1210s, I love Jay's channel and he seems like a great guy.
This is why I love the analogue pitch on older turntables
Totally agree. These are completely different to even the cheapo Citronics I had m back in the day. I’m hoping the Reloop 7000s will be better.
Can’t decide if this is just something I need to get used to, but they’re just so unpredictable sometimes it’s hard to see how you could.
Thanks for the comment.
@@JonGTranceClassics I have heard that all of the Super OEM decks such as Audio Technica, Reloop, Stanton and so on are pretty much the same thing, and share the same internals.. Apparently the Technics SL-1200 Mk7's are the best modern decks (with digital pitch ) to mix on.
Buy Technics!! I have Technics SL1200/SL1210 MK2’s and still working perfectly after 20 years. 👍
Btw. It’s always good to see someone playing real vinyl in these digital usb-stick/controller times! Keep it going! 😊
Totally agreed. I’m kicking myself for not getting them back in the day, but could only just afford the direct drive ones I had… plus they left more money to spend on vinyl so I suppose I wouldn’t have as good a collection if I had.
I did a little test just after uploading this video and by just using the pitch and not touching the platter at all, the 120s behave much much better. I plan on trying to put a mix together to fully test that theory.
I’m not sure I can justify the cost of new mk7s, especially knowing they’re in many ways inferior to the mk2s. My issue with buying used mk2s is that I won’t know their history, and could be setting myself up for big disappointment. I’m leaning more towards the RP7000s at the minute, but going in eyes open understanding the Super OEM limitations.
Buying used turntables has the risks because you don’t know the history of them. And Technics are expensive. I don’t know how good the new MK7’s are.
@@JonGTranceClassics last time I looked there was a seller on eBay, I think based in Chichester in Sussex that sells almost new condition mk2's with box, instructions, dust cover etc and a warranty. Not cheap though!
Same happened to me. it was super frustrating because Im new at this. I thought I was beatmatching it the wrong way for a week.You have the mix right and it suddenly goes super fast. I tried to fix it but I end up returning it.
Looking forward to listening to your mixes when you get your new Decks Jon. Coz I think your doing very well with the ones your useing now. There will be no stopping you pal. That’s what we want to hear and music to the Ears 👍🇮🇪..!
Thank you! RP7000s have been purchased. Just one last mix to upload on the 120s then I'll be uploading an RP7000. Got some awesome vinyl coming too, so very excited to share it with you guys.
It’s a pleasure to listen to your Mix’s Jon. Vinyl’s are the only way forward. Like watching Earth from space jus going around and around, except your mix’s play some Cracking Tunes 🎶🔊. Keep up the great work Jon & it’s great to listen to your Mixes 👌🇮🇪..!
Been having this same problem! Really quite tricky to pull off longer blends as they just don't hold the pitch enough, and needs constant attention to keep in time which can very quickly sound messy! after mixing on some 1210s with no problem, you really start to notice it!
Just picked up my Lp120x new yesterday for £600 for the pair. I have the same issue, pitch not holding and the mix slowly going out of sync, not happy
Bonjour !cette video tombe bien...Donc comme je vais investir dans une paire de platines a l'avebir ,d'ici quelques mois ! En voyant cetre video je vais me tourner soit vers la plx 500 pioneer ,j'ai vue des vidéos et elle fait bien le boulot car elle tien sa vitesse constante ou alors la audio technica atlp 140 xp SV mais si mon budget le permet je prends les mk7 comme j'ai eux des Mk2 voilà ya pas photo...on veut reprendre des technics si le budget le permet ...Merci pour cette vidéo ,ca permet de voire un point qui n'avait pas été fait en vidéo ...super Merci .
How is pitch stability in terms of "wow" - ie playing piano music? Im not concerned with sudden spinning or other problems as I don't DJ any more and am told that direct drives have less "wow" . Thanks in advance!
They seem ok but I can’t say I’ve done any scientific experiments, just from the way that they sound.
hello, same problem here and .... just solved :) now it work like a charm. i have a at-lp120xusb but i think it's a
common problem
I’ve got Reloop RP7000s now as the ATs were only on loan to me. How did you manage to fix it on yours, my friend may be interested when he gets them back!
@@JonGTranceClassics HI. the solution was very simple. the problem of loss of laps, in my two turntables audio technica lp120 usb, was only on 33 rpm. it was enough to set the turntable to 45 and I no longer lost rpm. I use serato dvs and once I set serato to 45 rpm everything was fine. however I have now bought two 1200 mk2s and now it's a whole other story. Technics is always Technics
@@JonGTranceClassics eu consegui melhorar o meu com simples detalhes, colei borrachas no fundo do prato giratório, dando mais peso o pitch fica mais preciso, pode até dá mexer prato com a mão, não sai mais fácil as músicas
I bought a pair of 1210s. When I slowed it down it sped up. Once it was serviced with a new pitch slide then it was perfect
I have both AT120 and Reloop 7000mk 2 and they are all difficult to perform long blends due to Cogging when slowing down the platter.the control ic tries to speed up the deck to what it thinks it should be while touching the platter or spindle , then jump back to correct speed instantly throwing the mix out.that’s the best way I can explain what’s happening.
This is excellent information thanks. Would you say the RP7000 is much better than the AT120 for the cogging? Tbh, I know the 120 gets bad reviews but this is pretty much the only problem I have with it, so if the RP7000 is the same, I’d be disappointed for sure.
@@JonGTranceClassics the RP7000 mk2 is a better turntable with less cogging than the AT120 ,Technics 1210/1200 mk7 (new production models from red bull onwards) have had the pitch issues fixed and hold a mix like the MK2.look up Just technics on TH-cam he has done in-depth reviews and explains a lot in his videos.
Thank you! Yeah, seen Jay’s videos and have a lot of respect for the guy. It looks like the only answer is the 12s! I almost feel like it’s either the AT120s (the ones I have are on loan), or the 1210 mk7s if you want new decks, from a value perspective. The RP7000s seem like they’d be disappointing. I guess I need to rewatch Jay’s videos to get a better idea.
Thank you so much for your comments. It’s great to get the feedback directly from someone who’s tried the ATs and the Reloops in real life so I really appreciate what you say.
Thanks again and enjoy the rest of the weekend.
@@JonGTranceClassics no problem, I loved your mixes, tune selection was top notch.
@@Mark_S_74 I've mentioned in another comment but I made a video that really demonstrates how bad the issue is on mine: th-cam.com/video/eoMYMD9nefo/w-d-xo.html - separate channel to hopefully keep copyright free.
RP7000 video will be coming up once I've had chance to do a good full mix on them! So far, I love them and they don't appear to have the same issues (I guess because of the stronger motor). Time will tell.
Thanks again mate.
Are the Pioneer 500 PLX any good
I've never mixed on them, so I can't say. I'd expect that they perform similar to the Reloop RP4000s, whereas the PLX1000 is more like the RP7000.
I played trance on reloop rp4000mk2 for 4 years. They are 120 in different body, identical hanpin internals. Pitch is stable, but main issue is how pitch controls the motor speed. Slider itself is analog (variable resistor basically) but then voltage goes thru ADC and it has quite big "steps", so you either play track sligtly slower or slightly faster but you cant sync perfectly if you are at the "step" border. Quite annoying. Otherwise they are great for their price.
You’re spot on. I was actually very impressed with how long they’d hold.
The biggest issue I had was due to the pitch being so steppy as you say, you end up needing to make adjustments, but then if you need to slow down by touching the platter or the label, the circuitry tries to overcompensate and ends up speeding the record up pretty wildly, completely throwing the mix off. Little nudges up didn’t seem to be a problem so I tried to work to that. Pitch riding to make adjustments seemed to have more predictable results, but back to the steppiness it was easy to end up way off where you were before.
Basically, I found these cheaper OEMs are hard work 😓 and I’m not convinced that’s a good thing, like learning on belt drives is. They’re just unpredictable!
Really appreciate the comment. I’m probably going to put another video together with a few observations.
@@JonGTranceClassics well, realising i cant sync i usually let the new track play slightly faster as it is faster and easier to slow it down abit while doing transition with finger pushing strobe dots instead of trying to push forward. Mine didnt try to "fight the mix" so i had no issues here. But mk2 have +-8 range while 120 have +-10, so mk2 are slightly newer edition. Maybe some improvements were made who knows... Anyway i switched to sl1200mk2 and THERE was this famous "deck fighting the mix" issue so i had to desolder resistor and cut one wire to disable quartz stabilizer. Ofcourse i am not authorized to give you any advises but if you are getting back into vinyl world and prefer long transitions (as trance requires actually) then i would suggest to buy 1200mk7. They have some flaws but for home more than enough. It will simply be another level.
@@Blaulicht1120 I've actually managed to catch the issue on video. I think you're right about the +/- 10 range and maybe some internal improvements causing the issues. I've made another channel for the copyright free content, but here's a link to the video I created:
th-cam.com/video/eoMYMD9nefo/w-d-xo.html
Thanks again for the comments.
Jon.
@@JonGTranceClassics yep its cogging. Basically deck is trying to compensate phase difference in expected rotation speed and actual. You slowed it down too much (over 1 rotation), it tries to upspeed platter to fix this delay. I usually slow down records by gentle finger press on record edge. This prevents applying strong forces on platter itself, so record is slowed down but platter doesnt have problems to rotate underneath. Try this technique, maybe it will improve your exlerience with existing decks.
@@JonGTranceClassics hey, it's my second accunt here, i will comment your latest video soon so just FYI it's me :)
I made some test with mines and the pitch is shifted, -0.35 bpm.
well you stiill pull off some great music
Thank you, that's good to hear. I have some RP7000s now and they're a lot nicer to work with, so hopefully some better mixing coming up soon!
Jon, you're better off buying a pair of good second hand Mk2's, M3D's , M5K5's, or if you want a new pair of decks, i have read people highly recommending the new Technics Mk7's
Yeah, totally agreed. My concern with the mk2s is the unknown history of a used pair, and the mk7s are so much more expensive than a super OEM such as the Reloop and allegedly not worth the extra.
I’ve just done a few test mixes and even the 120s behave much better riding the pitch and leaving the platter well alone. Perhaps it’s just an adjustment I need to make?
Appreciate all the comments on this.
@@JonGTranceClassics if you do decide to buy a pair of Mk2's , M3D's or MK5's, you can speak to Jay at just Technics who services Technics Turntables down in Colchester. He will give you some some brilliant advice on what to look out for when buying second hand Technics. He's also got a bunch of videos showing what to look out for when buying second hand if you decide to do so.
@@AmbientWanderer I ended up with some RP7000s (brand new). I've got one last mix that I did on the 120s which I need to upload, and for that I used the pitch to beatmatch rather than touching the record, and they behaved much much better.
I've not done a full set on the Reloops yet, but from the little jams I've done so far, they're night and day easier to mix with. I'll get a mix together with them and upload it soon, just waiting on the last few records to arrive.
Appreciate all the comments. Also, even though I didn't by 1210s, I love Jay's channel and he seems like a great guy.
@@JonGTranceClassics That's great to hear Jon!