Are Houston and Atlanta getting NHL expansion teams? 👀 | The Drop
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 มิ.ย. 2024
- On today's edition of The Drop the Arda Ocal and Greg Wyshynski discuss...
0:00 Welcome back to The Drop!
0:30 Is the NHL expanding?
3:22 Are new teams coming to Atlanta & Houston?
6:40 Which cities would you expand to?
9:41 Should Toronto get a second NHL team?
11:45 The latest on the Arizona Coyotes’ bid for a new arena
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#nhl #espn - กีฬา
Yes put NHL in Houston and Atlanta.
Atlanta two time loser
Sure, put another team in Atlanta. It's going to end up in Canada anyway.
yes put NHL in Orlando, Sacramento, New Orleans, where else is a bad location....two in Atlanta, Oklahoma City...hmmm maybe Jacksonville?
NEVER QUEBEC CITY - there are no hockey fans in Canada
NEVER HAMILTON OR TORONTO - a team in Toronto would fail
NEVER PORTLAND OR WISCONSIN - those are diehard hockey markets and Gary "Gargles" Bettman would prefer teams losing money in the South.
I would get season tickets if not try to work for the organization if Houston got a team. Would be a dream come true to have NHL hockey in htown
Any team Houston gets will be a good rivalry with the Dallas stars
I’m gonna sign up for the season tickets as well!
Wouldn't survive. Not a hockey market.
The move of the North Stars doubled the number of members in youth hockey. Houston would potentially have the same increase and 2 new rinks would need to be created.
The city of Houston can use THE ASTRODOME
I disagree with how you said Toronto #2 would make more money than one in Houston. The leafs’ financial success comes from their history and longevity in terms of corporate investment and fan support. A new team in Toronto would have to fight to even pull some of those fans away from the leafs and would then have to somehow find corporate sponsors of their own. This might have to be entirely different companies than the leafs who are less willing to pay more to sponsor or would have to play second tier and would get whatever is left over in sponsorship budget. Houston on the other hand adds tons of new corporate partners, new fans, and will probably have quite the amount of merchandise sales than one in Canada- since those fans can get away with wearing local hockey club sweaters
Split Toronto in two and you still have two markets bigger than Montreal & two cities where hockey is the undisputed #1 sport.
Toronto2 would make more money than for its owners than Houston would make for its owners. Now.....that doesn't necessarily mean that it would make the NHL *as a whole* more money. That's a more complicated wicket.
EDIT: the Clippers are currently the 6th most valuable NBA franchise. So don't underestimate the value of "team #2" in a market like Toronto
@@brycemcneil4404 Houston is bigger than Toronto, and Atlanta is about to pass the Toronto area in population.
@Will P. No doubt. But there is more untapped money *for hockey* in the Greater Toronto Area. If the Chicago White Sox can make money (and they do), trust and believe a Toronto NHLers 2 would as well.
Again, *for the league as a whole*, having Houston & Atlanta carry greater TV contract implications and higher upside. (The best years in Houston or Atlanta would be more profitable than any year for Toronto2.....but the worst years for Toronto2 would be by far more profitable that the worst years in Houston or Atlanta).
Houston has Tillman Frettita that has already expressed interest in adding and NHL team to his investments. He owns the Toyota Center and would have the same issue the Coyotes do with finding a home rink.
He dont want buy a new franchise, Only wants rent the arena for Nhl, Houston with him never will workout
@Allan SERGIO he is willing to buy a new franchise he can charge for rent
Can Houston finally reuse the ASTRODOME!?!?!?!
Yes please 🙏
And put the Houston Aeros in it
Atlanta had their chance(s). As things stand with 32 teams I can’t see them bringing in 2 teams….if anything it would be 4 to make 36, which is a lot of teams. I can see Houston, but I think there’s a lot of other cities that will get their chances before
PORTLAND PINES, HOUSTON AEROS, KANSAS CITY SCOUTS AND ATLANTA TRASHERS. MONEY TALKS... Y'ALL KNO DA REST.
The League does not need any more teams.
Atlanta has changed so much since the Thrashers left. The Atlanta Hawks sell out just about every night and they are a .500 team.
Atlanta was a clown show in the early 2000s and with how the draft goes. One promising run will captivate the locals.
Basketball is a black sport though. Blacks don’t watch hockey.
I think with the right ownership, the NHLcould and should expand into Houston and back in Atlanta. It would be good for the league. As a Canadian, I get the desire to have another team in Toronto and bring the NHL back to Quebec. The Houston/Atlanta combo is the best option. But I stress again, only with good ownership ie very wealthy and competent, otherwise it won't work.
Maybe another could be in Birmingham AL, San Diego CA, Orlando FL, Baltimore MD, Cleveland OH, and with me being from Connecticut, possibly the Hartford Whalers could return?
Why not have an nhl team in Milwaukee, Wisconsin
Not enough money there
I would love to see in Hamilton Ontario,this would create another rivalry for the Leafs, and would still like a team in Quebec
Besides Houston and Atlanta, I likely see Kansas City, Milwaukee, Portland, Quebec City, Salt Lake City and I would say Oklahoma City possibly getting NHL teams. But I don’t know if it would be through expansion. I don’t think the NHL is going to expand anymore.
Anything other than Atlanta and Houston is ludicrous. These are LARGE FULLY MATURE CITIES, whereas the cities you are talking about are small in comparison.
@@willp.8120 That's why I only mentioned them. There's no possibility that any of these cities get an NHL team except Houston. Houston WILL be getting an NHL team soon.
@@MrT8599 Atlanta is actually a better market for hockey. It has over three hundred thousand more white people than the Houston area, and has a far better attendance of its current sports teams relative to Houston.
Atlanta ranks 3rd in attendance amongst its current major league teams in attendance. Whereas, Houston ranks 14th.
Where they go head to head:
MLB:
Atlanta Braves: (4th in attendance) : 38,641
Houston Astros: (7th in attendance): 33,197
MLS:
Atlanta United (1st in attendance): 47,116
Houston Dynamo (21st in attendance) 16,426
NFL:
Atlanta Falcons (13th in attendance) 69,583
Houston Texans (19th in attendance) 67,911
NBA:
Atlanta Hawks (17th in attendance) 17,512
Houston Rockets (28th in attendance) 16,335
Look at that there, Atlanta bested Houston in all four major league sports in which they both have a team (MLB, MLS, NFL, NBA)
@@MrT8599 Atlanta is definitely getting a team too. They’re getting ready to start building the arena in Alpharetta, probably breaking ground later this year.
@@GeorgeDubya43 Who’s going to move? The Panthers?
Coyotes move to Houston. Put two more teams in the league in Kansas City and Atlanta and do the suburb thing.
Portland ain't Seattle. Seattle has alot of corporate presence (Amazon, Microsoft, Boeing, Starbucks).
NHL to Atlanta! Believe in Blueland
As a lifelong Georgia resident and Nashville Preds fan, Atlanta is a terrible hockey town. I love my Braves, Falcons, Atlanta FC and Dawgs, but I gotta go to Nashville if I wanna watch my team. Been a Preds fan since day one!
@@tangofett4065 To me the excitement for and growing numbers of High School, College and Minor League teams in this area and across Georgia suggest not everybody shares this opinion. #GoGlads #HockeyDown20uth
@@JoeDawley in this case, I would love to be wrong.
That's right.
@@tangofett4065 Nashville? I'm not driving four hours to see a team in a city a third the size of Atlanta play a game, as it just seems unjust.
And why would you say that Atlanta is a terrible hockey city? Reality doesn't reflect that.
Portland, San Diego, San Francisco, Salt Lake City, New Orleans, Houston, Atlanta, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Milwaukee
Portland no Seattle has a team and is bigger. San Deigo could work since all they have is baseball. San Fran no the bay area already has a team in San Jose. SLC too small dido for New Orleans. Houston and Atlanta are probably the 2 biggest markets without a team so yes they could work. Cleveland the NHL failed there after just 2 seasons Cincy is too close to Columbus which has a team and there is no chance there would be 3 NHL teams in Ohio and Milwaukee again too small.
What about New Orleans
Again too small for both the NBA and NHL. The only city without a team that has an NBA team that is doable is Houston.
Allez les Nordiques! The rivalries between Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, and Quebec would be INSANE!
I think Portland/Seattle was an either-or scenario, not a both. Having 3 teams in the PNW might oversaturate the area. I love the idea of Houston, but what I find hilarious is that absolutely no one seriously considers Salt Lake City. It is the single best winter sports region in the Western Hemisphere, and it has an owner who was able to make basketball work there. Getting a team in SLC before their likely 2030 Winter Olympics has to be considered by the NHL. It gives two added benefits as well, one, offering a potential local rivalry with Vegas, and two, potentially soften the blow of losing the Arizona market if the Coyotes eventually move out of Arizona.
Houston I can certainly see happening. Atlanta idk. but seriously why does toronto need a second team?
Hamilton overall is the best option to put another team in Canada within the next decade one the arena is there & some time in November the arena is going to close for 3 years to do a climate pledge arena style renovation to bring it up to snuff . Two The fan base is huge with Hamilton sitting at just under a million people & still growing also they would be taping into the southwestern Ontario market that would make them a regional team that could be called Ontario instead of Hamilton & could be put in the western conference one last thing it
would cost 55% less than a TO2 team since the renos are being payed for privately .
There are plenty of fans here. That is not the problem, look at the thrasher’s attendance.
Like it or not, NHL back to ATL is happening. The new 18k+ capacity stadium project on the north side suburbs (The Gathering) is moving ahead nicely & as planned. The land has been cleared and the construction will begin in Fall 2024. I predict it will be announced in 2025 and the full return for a new team in ATL area will take place in 2026 or 2027
I want a team in Houston, but based on the talk from the Rockets owner he has no interest in owning a team and no team is going to come here and be a tenant at Toyota Center.
I say no expansion at all until the issues with AZ and OTT are settled. THEN, discuss expansion.
Ottawa has 9 ownership bids… they’re fine
They also need an arena downtown.
@@AJStrong they don’t NEED an arena downtown… but it’s in the works
@@GoalHornGeek AJ didn't say "those issues *wont* be settled." He just said they *need* to be settled.
Quebec City and a second Ontario team are far more worthy
I think if houston gets a nhl team to be successful the nhl or team that comes, they would invest in school hockey programs from the junior highs to high school and a youth lg… that would also give the nhl a new pool to draft from down the road.
They already have hockey in surrounding areas, my son’s school has a hockey team!
@@robertfitzpatrick4618 what school
Man if anything if Houston got the NHL, don’t think the Toyota center would be the best place, if anything they would have blow up the Astrodome or put a lot of money into renovating the Astrodome and give it a huge makeover and call it the Astro Arena.
And yeah, I think that would probably be the only way Houston would get the NHL very similar to what Seattle with key arena, they renovated key arena and turned into climate pledge arena.
I agree they’ve already made it a historical sight might as well fix it up
Completely and put a nhl team in it! I do think they should go with the Houston Aeros as their name bring back the old logo and make it official!
Its happening but Quebec City is up first because their bid is deferred then it will be Houston Atlanta and salt lake City
Toronto will never get a 2nd team because it will be way to expensive because they would have to build a new arena in Toronto that would cost close to 2 billion dollars not mention the cost of the team that cost little over a billion dollars so you are looking at 3 billion dollar price tag .
An NHL expansion fee is essentially what a team could make with a Stanley Cup Final run. Of course owners would want two more teams. You do reduce the chances of winning a Cup but you get the money you would make if you did win one. Not much of a downside. They’ll be at 36 in no time. If you need to relocate, okay put another team in Toronto.
Just go back to 2 conferences instead of divisions and the you don’t have to have perfect symmetry.
Also, EXPAND THE PLAYOFFS ALREADY. The bubble best of 5 play in was awesome.
I think a very underrated city for a hockey team is Austin. The Dallas Stats AHL team (Texas Stars) already play in Cedar Park and they do have decent following. A growing city like Austin would support a team in a very similar way that Seattle does.
I could agree but they don't have a proper "Arena". The newly built Moody Center holds 10K at max for Basketball and they'd need something bigger.
SA can't support anything not Basketball so Houston wins a NHL team.
@@DerrickDX San Antonio should get an NFL team. They have had excellent attendance with their AAF team in 2019 and their current XFL team. It'd be a good market for the NFL.
Austin is more likely than Houston. I say this as someone in Houston. Austin will just have Houston in the market and it’ll be “Houston’s” hockey team.
Oh believe me, I agree but Jerry Fucking Jones won't have it. The greedy son of a bitch blocked the Raiders from moving there. No new NFL team will expand in Texas unfortunately. Which is ridiculous considering it's the second largest state behind Alaska.
Bring the whalers back! And the Nordiques!
Metropolitan Atlanta population (2021): 6,144,050
Metropolitan Houston population (2021): 7,206,841
Metropolitan Hartford population (2021): 1,211,906
Metropolitan Quebec City Population (2021): 839,678
Number of white people, hockey's target demographic, relative to the Atlanta region.
Houston: 280,079 fewer white people than the Atlanta region.
Hartford: 2,174,502 fewer white people than the Atlanta region
Unfortunately, I don't have figures for Quebec, given the way Canada compiles demographic data, but it is likely higher discrepancy with Atlanta than even Hartford.
Size of urbanized area (the developed land mass) in square miles.
Atlanta: 2,857 square miles
Houston: 1,904 square miles
Hartford: 525 square miles
Quebec City: 171 square miles.
Nope. It's got to be Atlanta and Houston.
Next, let's look at how big the Atlanta area is in built-up/developed area square miles compared to other cities (includes developed suburban areas).
If city has an NHL hockey team, indicated with an *.
If city has been often mentioned as a potential expansion site, instead of Atlanta, indicated with an ~
*(3) New York: 4,669 square miles
* Boston-Providence: 3,683 square miles
ATLANTA: 2,857 square miles
* Chicago: 2,705 square miles
*(2) Los Angeles: 2,452 square miles
* Washington-Baltimore: 2,124 square miles
* Philadelphia: 2,096 square miles
* Dallas-Fort Worth: 2,038 square miles
~ Houston: 1,904 square miles
* Detroit: 1,648 square miles
Cleveland: 1,379 square miles
* Miami: 1,279 square miles
* Seattle: 1,260 square miles
* Phoenix: 1,250 square miles
Charlotte: 1,156 square miles
* Minneapolis-St. Paul: 1,111 square miles
* San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose: 1,109 square miles
* Tampa-St. Petersburg: 1,004 square miles
* St. Louis: 990 square miles
* Pittsburgh: 922 square miles
* Toronto: 905 square miles
Orlando: 832 square miles
Cincinnati: 797 square miles
~ San Diego: 740 square miles
~ Kansas City: 728 square miles
Indianapolis: 718 square miles
* Raleigh-Durham: 706 square miles
* Denver: 681 square miles
~ Salt Lake City: 665 square miles
Jacksonville: 608 square miles
San Antonio: 601 square miles
* Nashville: 579 square miles
Portland: 538 square miles
* Montreal: 534 square miles
Birmingham: 530 square miles
Norfolk-Virginia Beach: 529 square miles
Austin: 528 square miles
Hartford: 525 square miles
* Columbus: 518 square miles
Memphis: 501 square miles
Richmond: 501 square miles
Louisville: 489 square miles
Sacramento: 476 square miles
Knoxville: 438 square miles
Oklahoma City: 418 square miles
* Las Veas: 417 square miles
* Buffalo: 380 square miles
Columbia, SC: 380 square miles
Baton Rouge: 367 square miles
McAllen, TX: 359 square miles
Tucson: 354 square miles
* Vancouver: 352 square miles
Dayton: 351 square miles
Springfield, MA: 349 square miles
Cape Coral, FL: 347 square miles
Allentown-Bethlehem, PA: 346 square miles
Tulsa: 336 square miles
Sarasota, FL: 327 square miles
Rochester: 324 square miles
Albany, NY: 296 square miles
Charleston, SC: 293 square miles
Grand Rapids: 281 square miles
Omaha: 271 square miles
New Orleans: 268 square miles
Albuquerque: 254 square miles
El Paso: 252 square miles
* Edmonton: 242 square miles
* Calgary: 240 square miles
Toledo: 240 square miles
* Ottawa: 212 square miles
Port St. Lucie, FL: 208 square miles
Des Moines: 201 square miles
Colorado Springs: 188 square miles
~ Quebec City: 171 square miles
Fresno: 171 square miles
Honolulu: 170 square miles
Reno: 164 square miles
* Winnipeg: 138 square miles
Bakersfield: 138 square miles
Boise: 134 square miles
Based on size of the area, anyone discounting Atlanta doubly looks like a clown. Look how small most of those other cities are compared to Atlanta.
You might as go for expansion instead than trying to relocate
What would be a good name for a Houston team??
If Atlanta is receiving any consideration at all, then so should Quebec City.
What about in Milwaukee or on their team in Chicago that would be awesome
Never going to happen as long as the Bucks are there. Now if they had left years ago it would have been plausible but they jsut got a new arena so they aint going anywhere.
Why not San Diego? Gulls are killing it here
You’d have to expand one in the west and one in the east. I would rather see the southern division brought back in the east.
Hartford and Quebec should be the teams
Atlanta and Houston
@@willp.8120 Atlanta isn’t a hockey city and have a good fan base it’ll be like the coyotes Hartford and Quebec are small markets but they’ll be a good fan base possibly sellouts everytime
@@thepatsnumber1fan Look at my other comments. You people just do not get it, and you couldn't be more wrong. Sure, we are not rabid hockey fans like Canadians, but there are so many more people and a huge corporate presence, that all that is moot. If Atlanta isn't a hockey city, then neither is Chicago and Detroit, as Atlanta has outsold Chicago 11 out of 19 seasons, and the Flames while in Atlanta outsold Detroit four times in eight years. Maybe we should also say New York City is not a hockey city, as the Thrashers outsold the Islanders eight out of eleven seasons, and the Devils five times out of eleven seasons.
Hartford has like 120k people lmao not even the biggest city in Connecticut
Quebec maybe Hartford are you kidding me? Way too small. It's barley bigger than Green Bay and Green Bay is the one special case.
Houston without a doubt. International city that is craving hockey. How many chances does the ATL get? Fair weather fans that will only buy tickets when the team is making the playoffs. Enough. Portland? Portland? The city that sets itself on fire every other week and refuses law enforcement…silly rabbit, count chocula…let’s get real and give the Loan Star State more hockey with the minor league team in San Antonio.
Agreed 100000%
How about Salt Lake City & Milwaukee?
I would love to see a NHL team in Milwaukee. I believe sports teams can help cities grow and I want Milwaukee to develop as a city.
Too small for both the NBA and NHL.
Blackhawks have an exclusive contract with the league to have WI as a market. Preventing any expansion there. Unless they change it or the Blackhawks leave Chicago or cease to exist.
@@ranelgallardo7031 Right and there is no chance of that ever happening. Further more the Bucks are in Milwaukee and the market is not big enough to be shared between the NBA and NHL. There really are no good options left for the NHL in the northern US. They will either have to look at the south or another city in Canada.
I disagree that a brand new team will be popular like he’s thinking it would be like the Clippers?
Move the yotes to Houston, then we're good. 32 teams is such a nice number, it would be very disappointing if that symmetry is lost.
Coyotes have no interest leaving. And won't generate nearly as much revenue as expansion will.
@@fantasticvoyage262 guess they are after tonight! Tempe said no new arena! Welcome to Houston
@@coltex2397 Too early to say yet. And how many times has Houston been rejected for expansion?
@@fantasticvoyage262 why would they want to stay in Arizona? They are not wanted there. The only reason they are there is because the commissioner doesn’t want to move them. Houston is a larger market than the Phoenix area and a lot more money in Houston. Maybe this was the nail in the coffin. Houston will eventually get a team. Why would the NHL want to stay in AZ and keep loosing money? Why would they would go back to Atlanta? It’s been done twice and it didn’t work.
@@coltex2397 Because the league still wants them there. At least so far. Which is really all that matters. And the league will make a lot more from a Houston expansion team than moving the Coyotes.
Then by this guy's logic on the right hand screen, move the league to Mexico and South America in order to gain new fans. ***rolls eyes***. With Bettman's effort to desperately sell hockey in the south, it's still an afterthought. Women's college basketball is way more popular than the NHL. Mind you, it's a slight improvment when not too long ago, truck pulling would have better ratings than NHL.
Yotes to Houston but the Thrashers again? i don't think so....
Please not Atlanta again. Goodness sakes that's the worst hockey market ever.
Worst sports town ever
@@bcranford714it’s ok to be wrong sometimes…..
@@tangofett4065 I live in Atlanta and the reason why I say it’s a terrible sports town is because it’s a transplant city
@@bcranford714 i live just north of Atlanta. I’ve lived here my whole life and I know that Atlanta is a terrible hockey town, but we do love our Baseball and Football. I wish the Hawks come get more recognition as well
Really?
I'm pretty sure that we easily bested Chicago, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Boston, St. Louis, New York, and Los Angeles some years.
The Atlanta Flames were a mid-range attendance team, for the most part. There were a couple years they didn't do too well, but most years they were in the middle of the pack.
Teams that the Flames had higher attendance than, apparently.
1972-1973 (16 teams):
New York Islanders
Pittsburgh Penguins
Los Angeles Kings
California Golden Seals
Chicago Blackhawks
1973-1974 (16 teams):
Detroit Red Wings
New York Islanders
Los Angeles Kings
Pittsburgh Penguins
California Golden Seals
Chicago Blackhawks
1974-1975 (18 teams)
Los Angeles Kings
Detroit Red Wings
Pittsburgh Penguins
Washington Capitals
Kansas City Scouts
California Seals
Chicago Blackhawks
1975-1976 (18 teams)
Pittsburgh Penguins
Detroit Red Wings
Washington Capitals
Minnesota North Stars
Kansas City Scouts
California Seals
Chicago Blackhawks
1976-1977 (18 teams)
Boston Bruins
Washington Capitals
Pittsburgh Penguins
Detroit Red Wings
Minnesota North Stars
Colorado Rockies
Cleveland Barons
Chicago Blackhawks
1977-1978 (18 teams)
Colorado Rockies
Minnesota North Stars
Cleveland Barons
1978-1979 (17 teams)
Pittsburgh Penguins
Minnesota North Stars
Chicago Blackhawks
St. Louis Blues
Los Angeles Kings
Washington Capitals
Colorado Rockies
1979-1980 (21 teams)
Hartford Whalers
Colorado Rockies.
The Atlanta Flames were only on the bottom end of attendance two years. The rest of the years they were firmly in the mid range in attendance.
Let's check out how often the Atlanta Flames in their eight seasons outsold current teams still in the league.
Chicago Blackhawks (6 years)
Pittsburgh Penguins (6 years)
Los Angeles Kings (4 years)
Detroit Red Wings (4 years)
Washington Capitals (4 years)
New York Islanders (2 years)
Boston Bruins (1 year)
St. Louis Blues (1 year)
Go ahead and ignore Cincinnati. It's had an ECHL team for decades.
The only way Atlanta will do decent in the NHL is to have them play in Kennesaw.
They'd do well in Cobb, North Fulton, Buckhead, and Perimeter Center areas. Downtown can work, too, but it does discourage some people from going down there.
@@willp.8120 Perimeter Center right in Sandy Springs would be perfect - right near a good amount of hockey rinks, in the suburbs, and on a MARTA line
40 NHL TEAMS BY 2040. PORTLAND PINES, SALT LAKE CITY SWARM, HOUSTON AEROS, KANSAS CITY SCOUTS. TWO CANADIAN OWNED TEAMS QUEBEC NORIQUES AND HAMILTON HAMMERS. PLUS BLACK OWNED TEAMS NEW ORLEANS NAVIGATORS AND ATLANTA TRASHERS. LET'S GROW THIS GREAT SPORT OF HOCKEY. IF NHL DOESN'T WANT MORE TEAMS IN CANADA, HOW ABOUT MILWAUKEE LAKERS AND INDIANA STALLIONS INSTEAD.
Patton Oswald 😊
I’d love to see a team in Hawaii,the team should be called The Hawaii Turtles
Nobody is going to want to take that flight especially pacific division teams who will play them several times a season.
True
Placing the team In Alpharetta will hurt hockey growth
That will be a fun trip up 400
@@bcranford714 for who
What if they put a new arena near truist park?
@@Falconforge89 well it still won't do much just reinforces on a select people mainly income, instead of growing a fanbase.. just like the braves, just alienate the rest of the community IMO
@@riccorich I don’t think Atlanta will be getting a third team, but it wasn’t because of a lack of fan base that doomed them. It was the horrible ownership.
On May 20th, 2024, Atlanta Falcons and Atlanta United FC owner Arthur Blank and Atlanta Hawks owner Tony Ressler will purchase the Columbus Blue Jackets from John P. McConnell for $1.85 billion, including a relocation of $195 million to relocate the Blue Jackets to Atlanta in the 2024-25 NHL season. On June 25th, 2024, the NHL Board of Governors will approve both the sale and relocation of the Blue Jackets to Atlanta in a unanimous vote. As a result, after calling Columbus home for 24 seasons, the Blue Jackets will relocate to Atlanta to become the 2nd incarnation of the Atlanta Thrashers and play their home games at State Farm Arena in the 2024-25 NHL season.
Houston already have arena
Vancouver island
Yes
Atlanta outperforms Houston in all four major league sports in which both cities compete (MLB, MLS, NFL, NBA)
Atlanta ranks 3rd in attendance amongst its current major league teams with three or more teams in attendance. Whereas, Houston ranks 14th.
Where they go head to head:
MLB:
Atlanta Braves: (4th in attendance) : 38,641
Houston Astros: (7th in attendance): 33,197
MLS:
Atlanta United (1st in attendance): 47,116
Houston Dynamo (21st in attendance) 16,426
NFL:
Atlanta Falcons (13th in attendance) 69,583
Houston Texans (19th in attendance) 67,911
NBA:
Atlanta Hawks (17th in attendance) 17,512
Houston Rockets (28th in attendance) 16,335
Look at that there, Atlanta bested Houston in all four major league sports in which they both have a team (MLB, MLS, NFL, NBA)
Wat year is that from
Milwaukee Shamrocks?
Georgia Thrashers pls
spokane washington or boise idaho
OMAHA,iNDIANAPOLIS,OKLAHOMA CITY,Milwaukee,,Atlanta,Houston,Portland,Salt lake City ,Birminham ,Orlano,Hartford,Louisville expansion Dont Add Toronto,Quebec City Halifax ,,Saskatoon expansion cites
Reasons why Atlanta is the worst hockey market:
- Atlanta Thrashers relocated (2011)
- Atlanta Flames relocated (1980)
- Hockey enrollment in Georgia is 0.02% (2021-2022) - 1 out of every 500 people plays hockey (40th out of 50 states)
To demonstrate HOW BAD those numbers are - Georgia with 11,029,227 population only has 2,078 people registered to play hockey.
To put that into perspective Georgia is one of the worst hockey markets in North America.
Atlanta has less hockey players than Prince Edward Island (5,557) which only has a population of 154,331 people.
Think about that....150 thousand Canadians support hockey better than 11 million Americans. FACTS.
You want to get REALLY embarrassed Atlanta? Georgia has less hockey players (2,078 as of 2021-2022) than the Canadian Territories (3,474).
Nunavut - 36,858 people
Yukon - 40,232 people
Northwest Territories - 41,070
Canadian Territories - 118,160 people - 3,474 hockey players enrolled
Georgia - 11, 029,227 - 2,078 hockey players enrolled
Georgia has more people than Sweden...it has more people than Greece.
The Canadian Territories have less people (118,160) than:
- Ann Arbor Michigan (119,875)
- Billings Montana (119,960)
- Berkeley California (118,950)
but the Canadian Territories AND Prince Edward Island still have more hockey players than the state of Georgia.
Imagine a city the size of Billings Montana and it has more hockey players enrolled than 11,029,227 people in Georgia...a city the size of Billings with an NHL team would be preposterous...yet the Canadian territories support hockey better than the state of GEORGIA.
- Hockey in Atlanta did not grow the game, there are NO NHL players from Georgia currently in 2024 (6.1 million people and not one NHL player - ) - by comparison Nova Scotia has a population of 969,383 people and has 26 NHL players.
- Atlanta Hawks struggle with attendance (18th out of 30 teams) and basketball is more popular than hockey
- The Atlanta attendance was BAD.
2011 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance (13,469)
2010 - 28th/30 teams in NHL attendance (13,607)
2009 - 29th/30 teams in NHL attendance (14,626)
2008 - 22nd/30 teams in NHL attendance (15,831)
2007 - 21st/30 teams in NHL attendance (16,240)
The inaugral season was the best attended, then the attendances dropped. 2007 was the Thrashers SECOND best season ever in attendance with a truly pathetic 16,240....and only good enough for 21st in the NHL that year. 2007 was also Atlanta's most successful year losing in the Eastern Conference Quarter Finals. So Atlanta Thrashers BEST attended season (16,240) would be 26th in today's NHL...
- Atlanta Gladiators average 4,696 per game in the ECHL (Gas South Arena capacity is 11,355 for hockey) so they can't even average 50% capacity
- Atlanta's ONLY benefit is the population size (6.1 million in 2020). But by that metric Houston (7.1 million in 2020) is a better option, and hasn't already failed twice before."
Atlanta Thrashers valuations:
2010 - Atlanta Thrashers - $135 million (5.5 million popualtion) second lowest value in NHL
......then they moved to Winnipeg....
2011 - Winnipeg Jets - $164 million (731,000 population) - gained $30 million USD in one season
2012 - Winnipeg Jets $200 million (741,000 population) - gained another $35 million USD in the second season
So....a city with only 700 thousand people, spending Canadian currency did FAR better than the failing pathetic Atlanta Thrashers ever did. According to "Forbes Business of Hockey".
Atlanta Thrashers moved to Winnipeg - a city with 5 million less people, a city paying for games in Canadian currency and the team still increased by 50% valuation in a two year span.
Atlanta is a basketball city, that doesn't even support the Hawks.
Never Atlanta.
#NeverAtlanta
Houston Quebec City salt lake city Atlanta are next
Toronto already has a team. Go somewhere else.
No more expansion!
32 teams is enough. The talet is already watered-down.
NHL already has more teams than MLB... that's bananas.
Houston - no NHL team, no AHL team, no ECHL team (if they like hockey so much in Houston (7.1 million) wouldn't they have a team? Mexico City also has a large population with ZERO hockey teams.)
Kansas City - lost one NHL team (Kansas City Scouts), ECHL team (bottom 5 in attendance in the ECHL) where are the fans?
Atlanta - lost two NHL teams (Atlanta Flames, Atlanta Mistakes), ECHL team averages 41.3% capacity (4,900 fans)
Quebec City - averages 9,726 (in QMJHL) that's more than Arizona Coyotes and their AHL affiliate Tucson Roadrunners combined - 8,225. And they average over 18,000 a game in the playoffs. Quebec City - population 839,311 (7th largest city in Canada - and larger than Winnipeg - 834,678)
Portland - has an NHL arena (MODA), has a well supported WHL team, "Portland Rosebuds" competed for the Stanley Cup in 1916, and would be a natural rival to Seattle Kraken, there is only one professional team in Portland (NBA) the market is large and mostly untapped. Portland - population 2,511,612 (2020)
Milwaukee - has an NHL arena (Fiserv Forum), the Wisconsin badgers (NCAA) average over 10,000 fans per game, Wisconsin is top eight in hockey registration (20,975 hockey players enrolled - that is more than Ohio, or New Jersey, and Cleveland, and New Jersey are good hockey markets), a team in Milwaukee would also have the support of Madison, WI only an hour away (population of 680,796 in 2020), and a team in Milwaukee would be a natural rival for the Chicago Blackhawks (if there can be a team in Manhattan, NY, Hempstead, NY, and Newark, NJ you can have a team in Milwaukee, WI and Chicago, IL) the market is more than large enough for two hockey teams. Milwaukee - population 1,574,731 (2020)
Winnipeg has 800k people and does better than Phoenix, Arizona (6.1 million). The team has a better attendance than Arizona (even before Mullet Arena). A higher valuation than Arizona. And generates more income than Arizona (Arizona actually loses money for the league).
You can see the difference between "real" hockey markets and "large cities". Large cities are not necessarily good hockey markets
Houston had a very successful team in the Aeros the reason they never got an nhl team is because the old owner of the rockets kept the nhl out (he was a dickhead) now Tillman has the rockets, wants a team, Houston fans want a team as well!
@@robertfitzpatrick4618 Houston is 100% better than Phoenix or Atlanta.
But at the end of the day it isn't a hockey market, like Miami, Anaheim, Raleigh...Phoenix and Atlanta.
It's going to be the SAME outcome in a different city.
Pittsburgh and Buffalo generate more revenue for the NHL than Phoenix Anaheim or Miami....
Just put the team somewhere people CARE ABOUT HOCKEY.
Put an NFL team in San Antonio - that's actually smart.
Kansas City
Please pick a better name than the thrashers.
Other cities that I think could possibly get one in the future are Birmingham AL, San Diego CA, Orlando FL, Baltimore MD, Cleveland OH, and maybe, just maybe, the Hartford Whalers could come back, with me being a Connecticut resident!
Nice video, anyone know how to gain more subscribers, im new to TH-cam again any advice would help:)
NHL to Portland
Oh hell no
36 in 2026
This guy doesn't get that blacks care nothing about hockey, and even then, Atlanta has more than enough white people. Of all metropolitan area's regions that do not have an NHL team, Atlanta has the most white people of any of them. It bests Houston by nearly three hundred thousand white people, hockey's primary demographic. A black owner is absurd for just sakes of them being black. If the owner is black, fine, but let's not just say that you have to have a black owner, as doing such won't attract many black fans.
This guy talks about demographics of Portland working, but he doesn't get that the Atlanta region has far more white people.
Atlanta has over one million more white people than the Portland area.
This guy really needs to do his research. There is a lot of ignorance regarding Atlanta, and it's time people actually look up the facts if they don't know.
Black people love hockey that is racist. You heard of Kevin Weeks.
@@gavinproduction7433 I'm speaking in terms of percentages. Yes, there are some outliers.
The Atlanta and Houston would fail.
Quebec and Kansas City are the only two possibilities.
I think you got your cities confused. Atlanta and Houston have corporate $$$
The main issue with Quebec City isn’t the Canadian dollar, but the extreme resistance to English speakers compared to Montreal.
@@GoalHornGeek I don't. Atlanta and Houston will not be sustainable. Atlanta has proved this twice now. Corporate money only starts the team, demographics keep the team running.
@@Higgins8 Atlanta was no less sustainable than a number of franchises that haven't relocated ever. For e.g., look up the first 10-15 years of the Capitals and then imagine that they moved (and they very nearly did). That history wouldn't look much different from the Flames or Thrashers.
So Atlanta and Houston would fail because why exactly?
Let's look at where the teams rank in attendance by region.
The Southern teams rank higher in attendance.
Carolina Hurricanes are SECOND (2) in attendance.
Tampa Bay Lightning are THIRD (3) in attendance.
Two southern teams right here in the top 3 of NHL attendance. You really need to research before you say such things which just are not true.
Carrying on:
Dallas Stars are NINTH (9) in attendance.
Nashville Predators are NINETEENTH (19) in attendance
Florida Panthers are TWENTY FIFTH (25) in attendance.
Now let's break it down by region:
South placements:
2, 3, 9, 19, 25. Average: 11.6/32 teams
Midwest placements:
4,10,11,20,24 Average: 13.8/32 teams
Northeast placements:
7,8,15,16,18, 23,27,29 Avg: 17.875/32 teams
West placements:
13,14,21,22,28,31,32 Average: 23.0/32 teams
Canada placements:
1,5,6,12,17,26,30 Average: 13.86/32 teams.
Would you look at that, the SOUTH has the highest attendance rank.
1. South: 11.6
2. Midwest: 13.8
3. Canada: 13.86
4. Northeast: 17.875
5. West: 23.0
This is the intrinsic bias that Southerners have to face when it comes to sports teams. It's ludicrous people deriding our region for not supporting teams, when they support them better than any other region, even Canada.
And just for the link, here you go:
www.hockeydb.com/nhl-attendance/att_graph_season.php?lid=NHL1927&sid=2023
And here's some extra stuff.
The Atlanta Flames were a mid-range attendance team, for the most part. There were a couple years they didn't do too well, but most years they were in the middle of the pack.
Teams that the Flames had higher attendance than, apparently.
1972-1973 (16 teams):
New York Islanders
Pittsburgh Penguins
Los Angeles Kings
California Golden Seals
Chicago Blackhawks
1973-1974 (16 teams):
Detroit Red Wings
New York Islanders
Los Angeles Kings
Pittsburgh Penguins
California Golden Seals
Chicago Blackhawks
1974-1975 (18 teams)
Los Angeles Kings
Detroit Red Wings
Pittsburgh Penguins
Washington Capitals
Kansas City Scouts
California Seals
Chicago Blackhawks
1975-1976 (18 teams)
Pittsburgh Penguins
Detroit Red Wings
Washington Capitals
Minnesota North Stars
Kansas City Scouts
California Seals
Chicago Blackhawks
1976-1977 (18 teams)
Boston Bruins
Washington Capitals
Pittsburgh Penguins
Detroit Red Wings
Minnesota North Stars
Colorado Rockies
Cleveland Barons
Chicago Blackhawks
1977-1978 (18 teams)
Colorado Rockies
Minnesota North Stars
Cleveland Barons
1978-1979 (17 teams)
Pittsburgh Penguins
Minnesota North Stars
Chicago Blackhawks
St. Louis Blues
Los Angeles Kings
Washington Capitals
Colorado Rockies
1979-1980 (21 teams)
Hartford Whalers
Colorado Rockies.
The Atlanta Flames were only on the bottom end of attendance two years. The rest of the years they were firmly in the mid range in attendance.
Let's check out how often the Atlanta Flames in their eight seasons outsold current teams still in the league.
Chicago Blackhawks (6 years)
Pittsburgh Penguins (6 years)
Los Angeles Kings (4 years)
Detroit Red Wings (4 years)
Washington Capitals (4 years)
New York Islanders (2 years)
Boston Bruins (1 year)
St. Louis Blues (1 year)
Let's take a look at just how good attendance has been and can be in the Atlanta market.
Atlanta Flames (1972-1980)
(Left due to interest rates being dramatically raised in the late 70s that almost put the owner, a real estate developer, out of business. He sold the Flames, a profitable asset, to the highest bidder, one who took the team to Canada, despite multiple local bidders who offered less and would have kept the team in Atlanta. Had nothing to do with fan attendance. The Flames were mid-range in attendance and regularly outsold the Chicago Blackhawks and Pittsburgh Penguins, and for multiple seasons outsold the Detroit Red Wings, as well as outsold the Boston Bruins at times.
Here is a clip of a packed out Omni Coliseum in 1979.
th-cam.com/video/1qT28gYrVNg/w-d-xo.html
Atlanta Knights (1992-1996)
(This team had the top attendance in the IHL, and they won a Turner Cup. The only reason they left was because the Omni Coliseum where they played was being imploded to make way for Philips Arena, the place where the Thrashers would play, since Atlanta had already been awarded an NHL franchise.)
th-cam.com/video/uEu9GAebJT8/w-d-xo.html
Atlanta Thrashers (1999-2011)
The Thrashers left do to some unfortunate circumstances. The Thrashers, originally owned by Ted Turner, was acquired by Time Warner in an acquisition of Turner Sports. This included the Atlanta Hawks of the NBA, the rights to Philips Arena, and the NHL's Atlanta Thrashers.
Time Warner had the hair brained idea to merge with AOL, having no foresight that dial-up internet wasn't long standing. A few years later, AOL-Time Warner, the company as it was called, started facing financial hardships as the transition away from dial up internet took place. In order to stabilize the company, they sold their sports franchises, the Hawks, and Thrashers, and the rights to Philips Arena AS A PACKAGE DEAL. It is the package deal that was the root of what led to the Thrashers' demise. You see, it allowed a group of investors from various cities who WANTED A BASKETBALL TEAM, named ATLANTA SPIRIT GROUP, LLC, who acquired the Thrashers as a way of also getting the Hawks. Most had no interest in hockey, and most wanted to sell the Thrashers right after acquisition. There was a lone investor who did want the Thrashers, and in order to prevent the sale, he took the other investors to court. They lost a tremendous amount of money in LITIGATION COSTS, while simultaneously used most of their revenue to acquire Hawks players for exorbitant salaries, namely Joe Johnson. This left little for the Thrashers and is responsible for their continued dismal performance on the ice, having only one playoff year in which they were swept. Litigation costs forced the Thrashers to sell off most of their good players, and shortly after, the court ruled that Atlanta Spirit Group, LLC, could sell the Thrashers.
Atlanta Spirit Group sabotaged any potential buyers keeping the Thrashers in Atlanta. For one, they would not allow any new owner to receive any revenue from concessions or parking, as since Atlanta Spirit Group would still own Philips Arena (THE RESULT OF THE PACKAGE DEAL), Atlanta Spirit Group would get that revenue, not the new Thrashers owners. Secondly, it has been stated multiple times that Atlanta Spirit Group was looking to get the relocation fee from the NHL. They also apparently did not want to have to compete with the Thrashers for fans, and wanted to have Atlanta all to themselves in winter sports with the Hawks. Atlanta Spirit Group also wanted a fee from any potential buyers to USE THEIR ARENA. The loss of revenue coupled with fees to Atlanta Spirit, as well as Atlanta Spirit not taking considerably any strong contenders for sale to keep the team in Atlanta, resulted in people unwilling to take a risk, since this setup would have bankrupted any city's sports franchise.
The league was also not flexible in 2011. They would not allow the Thrashers to play at the Gwinnett Arena, an arena that holds about 9,000 fans. Years later, they went off this and now are allowing the Coyotes to play in an arena of about 4,000-5,000 fans.
The recession was in full swing during the Thrashers' departure, so this didn't exactly help things either.
All this said, it is easy to see that Atlanta's movements had nothing to do with attendance, and all with ownership. Atlanta never was last in attendance, and outsold the Bruins, Blackhawks, and Penguins some years.
Here is a clip from 2007.
th-cam.com/video/4W0WtsMoRns/w-d-xo.html
Atlanta Gladiators (Originally known as the Gwinnett Gladiators) (2003-Present)
Here is a clip from this season on Thrashers Knight where the team donned one of the uniforms of the old Atlanta Thrashers. Note the packed out house.
th-cam.com/video/x07HyJAdoNU/w-d-xo.html
Now let's look at how many white people, hockey's target demographic (and don't kid yourselves, over 95% of hockey fans are whites and it doesn't really appeal to nonwhites).
This is the argument people try to use against Atlanta, claiming it is majority black, when it is not majority black even in the city, and definitely not the metropolitan area. The media has fed the image of Atlanta as majority black, nothing more.
Number of white people in geographic region of Atlanta relative to other geographic regions. This measure includes nearby cities where one could naturally travel easily to see a game. It doesn't simply include the lone metro area, but areas in close proximity.
Unfortunately, I only have data for the USA in this metric.
Potential NHL Cities:
ATLANTA/ROME/GAINESVILLE/ATHENS: -
Houston/Galveston/The Woodlands: 280,079 fewer white people than Atlanta
Portland/Salem: 1,027,999 fewer white people than Atlanta
Salt Lake City/Ogden/Provo: 1,175,809 fewer white people than Atlanta
Kansas City: 1,448,307 fewer white people than Atlanta
San Diego: 1,527,377 fewer white people than Atlanta
Milwaukee/Racine: 1,939,875 fewer white people than Atlanta
Current NHL Cities whose region have fewer white people.
I do not have data on this set for Canadian cities (or the seven current teams, but most, five or six of them have fewer white people than Atlanta)
Current NHL Cities
Tampa/St.Petersburg/Clearwater/Bradenton/Sarasota/Lakeland/Winter Haven: 7,893 fewer white people than Atlanta
Minneapolis-St. Paul: 301,335 fewer white people than Atlanta
Phoenix: 352,005 fewer white people than Atlanta
Seattle/Tacoma/Olypia/Everett/Bellvue: 620,764 fewer white people than Atlanta
St. Louis: 966,261 fewer white people than Atlanta
Pittsburgh: 1,001,712 fewer white people than Atlanta
Buffalo/Rochester/Niagara Falls/St. Catherines: 1,102,179 fewer white people than Atlanta
Miami/Fort Lauderdale/West Palm Beach: 1,164,076 fewer white people than Atlanta
Columbus: 1,470,614 fewer white people than Atlanta
Nashville/Murfreesboro: 1,590,224 fewer white people than Atlanta
Raleigh/Durham/Cary/Chapel Hill: 1,783,679 fewer white people than Atlanta
Las Vegas: 2,056,774 fewer white people than Atlanta
I was very liberal in my assessment of potential Denver fans, and even with all these cities added on the front range, it is essentially the same number of white people as in the Atlanta and surrounding area.
Denver/Colorado Springs/Boulder/Greeley/Fort Collins: 14,893 more white people than Atlanta.
Dallas/Fort Worth/Arlington: 316,522 more white people than Atlanta.
There are only seven USA NHL markets which have significantly more white people than the Atlanta market. (New York, Boston, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington-Baltimore, Philadelphia, and Detroit.)
Why not Hamilton the arena is there & is going to close in November after the Grey Cup for 3 years for major renovations kind like what they did in Seattle with climate pledge arena also a team in Hamilton would serve as a regional team for the Southwestern part of Ontario & the team would not have to be called Hamilton it can be called Ontario .
Hamilton , Quebec City , Houston & Portland are the best bets for an NHL. team right now oh by the way Hamilton's population at this moment is 876.000 & will be over million within the next 5 years if that dose not say major league city i don't know what is .
Give Atlanta another team. Calgary and Winnipeg got teams, from Atlanta, Quebec needs ones.