@aini_ i would love your videos without theese unnessesery "micro cuts" .. trau dich.. äh "you can do it" .. we will have enough talking ai-robots on here soon enough ;)
Y'all really can't just treat people like people, huh? Is EVERY interaction over there done with the thought of whether the person you're interacting with is above or below your own worth? That's inhuman. Viewing people in terms of their value is something narcissists do... What does that say about your culture?
@Real-Name..Maqavoy How is a comment about east Asian cultures antisemitic? They ain't Jewish and antisemitism is specifically against those of the Jewish faith..... Tell me you only know buzzwords without knowing their meanings without telling me....
As a Japanese, this video is soo true😂 Especially the way people in Kyoto communicate is so hight context and complicated that even Japanese themselves don't fully understand it and often misinterpret it lol. （For example, when they say "You have a nice watch", they mean "Your talk is too long".）
"No one asks a question expecting to be turned down" It's interesting the level of contrast between different cultures. In middle eastern culture it's almost the opposite. There are so many questions people will be obliged to ask, but they'll be expecting a no to. For instance, due to hospitality rules, if someone stops by your house or gives you a ride home, you're expected to ask them in. However, in such cases, you're typically expecting the other person to decline (same thing if someone you know walks in on you eating. If it's something you can share it's considered rude not to offer it, but again, you're offering it with the expectation they'll decline). It's something that can really throws those not familiar with the culture off, especially with how persistent people will be, asking a question several times and you're expected to stand your ground and keep saying no. Although we've also got several ways to give a vague answer instead of no (tomorrow is code for "I'm just gonna keep kicking it down the curb for as long as possible", if God wills means "maybe I'll do it, probably not" and good will happen means "yeah, I'm not doing that").
That's so true! I had no idea about taarof when I traveled to the middle east for the first time, but I wish I did as it would have saved me a lot of embarrassment 😆 People will keep offering you things, and the nicest thing you can do is give them a smile, a quick courteous chat, and a polite 'thank you really, but I'm good!'
That's very interesting! But it's also not unheard of in Japan, for example. It happens less frequently perhaps, but for example a while ago I had some handymen in my home to do some work, and felt obliged to offer them something to drink. They declined (probably out of politeness). It wouldn't have thrown me off if they did accept, but I kind of anticipated the response.
I’m Romanian and here in East-Southeast Europe we sort of have a mix of the two: as a host it is expected to politely offer others to come over and insistently offer them food drinks sweets etc. while the other party is expected to politely refuse over and over (nothing wrong if they say yes); At the same time, when someone does ask a question/make a request you do not agree with/cannot satisfy, you will politely refuse by dodging (Oh, that’s so sweet of you/I so wish I could have come, but I really don’t have a way to make it) or by being really softening on the „no” (Being very sincere with you, I don’t really think I totally agree with you on this). As a native, being impolite by not respecting these unwritten rules is seen as a sign of very poor upbringing. Foreigners are exempted from these polite speech intricacies.
At first I thought this is absurd.... then I realized just how often I didn't say "No" when I didn't want to hang out with friends, instead making up various excuses.
I'm American. I basically never turn down a friend without a reason in the first place. We're all too busy to turn down time to hang out for dumb reasons. Plans can change based on people's situations. "Wanna grab food?" "Gotta watcha the kids." "Oh fair enough. Should I bring a pizza, and we can chill with the kids?"
It’s not just an Asian culture thing. I always think of the joke in Friends where Phoebe declines by saying, ”Oh, I wish I could, but I don’t want to.” A lot of sales tactics depend on it, too. The difference is, perhaps, that Asian culture allows for saying yes when meaning no.
@@dsdgdsfegfeg they said it's not *just* an Asian thing, not that it isn't an Asian thing. It is a thing in Asia in particular, because being indirect is integrated into the cultures there, but it pops up in other places/cultures too
I'm an autistic asian woman. it's always hard with my older (60+) mother. It's not her age but her generation. Even when she was younger it was hard interacting with her sometimes. I just could never understand why she couldn't just say it.
I might be a bit on the autistic, dunno. All I believe is that people SHOULD be direct to each other and not fear retaliation. People that retaliate should stop and think over WHAT they are arguing for. It is not healthy for any relationships to keep hiding under "veiled conversations". One day, it WILL rupture, more violently than before.
I‘m a german and was like ”Gee, I would never survive in an east-asian culture“, then you showed the list of high-/low-context countries and I just had to laugh.
I wonder if this is because the what we call now Germany is surrounded by so many other cultures. If you go back more than a hundred years it becomes difficult to even define what is part of Germany and what not. We had to be direct to ensure we are understood. Meanwhile Japan was more isolated and as such there was a lot more context they shared allowing them to focus their attention on more than just being understood.
So the idea of face is sparing their feelings but by being so damn dismissing and refusal to answer a simple binary question. I honestly feel like that's way more rude than simply, concisely saying no. So you can then be clear in each other's intent or suggest alternatives. If going through a list of suggestions is going to be a song and dance. It's honestly such a test of patience which I personally don't have.
I am South Asian, and I have always been told growing up that I must always agree with anything elders say and never speak against them, even if they are wrong. "No" is like a taboo word in many parts of Asia. We are raised to be averse to using that word.
Utter hilarity. Malaysian here - heard of an anecdotal story ... allegedly involving a Western manager and his female Malay subordinate. The sub would keep answering everything in the affirmative, even when it was NOT. Needless to say he found it frustrating.
Nah youre a different case. My south east asian friends have all told me they would say no unapologetically, theres no culture in south east asia that hinders you from saying no. South east asians are much more straight forward, and as such often much more open as people when interacting, Ive honestly found south east asians much kinder and warmer to interact with than the east asians.
@@musicplaylist6909 then your friends might be part of the newer generation that dont really care about etiquette... i'm a chinese malaysian that been brought up with the idea that it's rude to talk back to your elder as they are someone who have more life experience than you. i dont know where are you from or your "south east asian" friends is from, but at least here in malaysia, people care about etiquette and politeness.
I'm studying under a Japanese supervisor, my latest conversation with him encapsulates this mismatch pretty well. Me: Good morning sir, here are the results. I know they're slightly wrong, but I believe they could still be used. Him: Good morning. The values are too high, can you make them lower? M: I have spent three weeks on this experiment, and these are the lowest values I received. H: Thank you, but can you make them lower? M: As I previously mentioned, these are the lowest values I've managed to receive. H: I understand, but can you make them lower? M: No sir, I can not. Only after a direct "no" did he want to see my simulation himself. ^^'
What I've observed as an Asian Mexican: in general interactions, we often state that we value frankness/low context communication and associate high context behavior with insincerity. In practice, the exact opposite happens.
Western culture values directness so long as it conforms to socially acceptable conventions, such as political correctness today. No national-scale culture anywhere yet has actually desired frank, low context communication. Most people are moderately disingenuous.
i work with Japanese staff. And one thing I learned it that you have to make sure to directly ask if they understood your explanation. Since often they will just nod along or say "a" or "oh".
The irony is that being dishonest to someone, being indirect and unclear, is far more harmful than "losing face". That, and if you don't set firm boundaries, you're bound to be taken advantage of.
I recon at a certain point, indirectness becomes so obvious that neurodivergents have an easier time at learning. If 5% of the conversation is to be read between the lines, it can be kinda fuzzy. If 50% of communication is indirect, you learn it as a clear and normal part of speech.
@@humanperson8418you're wrong, and you basically threw a "who came first the chicken or the egg" type situation in my hands and the best I can do is "I'll just presume all you say is a lie"
@@humanperson8418 The indirect part is the issue. If that is not made clear by saying it literally and directly, it goes over neurodivergent people's heads. I know it will go over mine.
I'm Chinese and grew up in Canada, so I likely have a Western mindset but I've always found that direct communication is the ultimate form of sincerity and being genuine. Reading between the lines is a good skill to have, it sucks to tell people things they don't want to hear, but messages can never get distorted if you state it directly compared to indirectly. There's a reason why East Asians reserve direct communication for those closer to us, it's not only trust, but we need to ensure that there's no miscommunication (e.g. Asian parents always say that they're hard on their children because they need their children to know what they really believe is best for them, while other children that do not belong to them, they could care less).
Same here, Chinese ethnicity but raised in Canada. I have noticed that I tend to be more blunt about things than Chinese-Chinese, which sometimes annoys me when I'm interacting with them. Like, if you offer something, I will take it, too bad how sad. On the other hand, unless it's something really egregious, I won't get mad if you don't offer something to me, and if you say yes but actually mean no, please just say no, I don't have time to waste trying to figure out what you mean, my god. On the other hand, I work in a non-Chinese workplace, and I have been told a few times by my Canadian boss that I have a weird roundabout way of saying/requesting things, like I'm afraid of saying things directly. Which, yeah, it's a mixture of Chinese "face" etiquette and my general personality of not wanting to step on people's toes. If only I were better at adapting to cultures better haha. I'm stuck in the middle with the worst of both worlds.
I am asian, not 🇨🇳🇯🇵🇰🇷 though but when in China I am always a bit surprised (generally in a positive way) by how frank and straightforward the Chinese folk seem to be. Probably depends on a region as China is obviously enormous. I have mainly been to south/northwestern parts
I approve and I wish my parents were more direct with me. Being "coddled" is terrible because you end up in a sheltered attitude. The issue is determining the line. People should know you can't be over-the-top either way. Balance with reasoning must take place.
as an asian girl growing up in the west i’ve unfortunately seen a common pattern that came from both sides: forcing girls from a young age to always say yes despite feeling uncomfortable. this doesn’t apply to everyone ofc but a lot of times girls will be hated on, harassed and more for DARING to refuse. it’s tough out here
I agree, and that’s precisely why this whole thing of “you can’t say no” rubs me the wrong way… especially for girls and women, we should be allowed to say no to things that makes us uncomfortable without being hated for it. Had my eldest sister call me an individualist once just for the HENIOUS act of…! Saying no and wanting to stay in peace. 😢
Not here in the Philippines. Have female friends. My mom and sisters and female cousins all say no blatantly when annoyed. Usually when someone keeps asking them out (boy or girl). Of course it starts with an excuse to be polite and then they hit them with the hard no. As a guy, my go to is just saying 'meh' with an annoyed expression. Gets the point across.
That is such a miserable lie. As if we don't know the state of Western women. Also, men are forced to join the military, or else they become criminals and are shamed and labelled cowards and traitors. Stop lying. Can you imagine telling some crazy western woman that she must agree to anything she's told? 😂😂😂 it's an offense to look at women in the underground in some parts of the west, but somehow, you want to tell me that women girls are just forced to say yes to anything 😂😂😂 What is this comment section of ghouls? Do you not look beyond having to maybe do laundry because your mom told you to? Is that too much oppression for you? 😂
The struggle of learning Japanese while being neurodivergent and from a country on the low context extreme of the spectrum....I feel like at this point my main issue isn't even grammar or vocabulary anymore but rather grasping the cultural nuances 😭 Thank you so much for this video, it was really interesting!
@@hikashia.halfiah3582i don't think watching anime is going to help understand what people mean when they say words they don't actually think. coming from someone who didn't learn any of that from watching english speaking media
me too… in german, you’re usually very straightforward and blunt. to be polite, you’re just more formal, and a little more distant. but unlike in japanese, there’s no level of politeness. you’re just expected to give a base level of politeness to everybody, and that’s pretty much it. Having to individually assess appropriate politeness for every single conversation with a stranger seems… stressful. i much prefer politeness when it’s just this basic “here’s a token acknowledgement that we’re adults in a formal context. we’re strangers, we respect each other, moving on”. so much more convenient.
@@atlas956 I understand where you are coming from, but I know how german politeness levels work and I can tell you I basically prefer japanese politeness levels because they are more fluid. You can switch between more or less polite speech when talking to the same person, but depending on the subject. You can keep calling someone by their last name and "san" even if you're fairly friendly and otherwise don't use formal language. In german, you can only adress someone informally (du) or formally (sie) and often it's hard to tell which would be appropriate, while in japanese you can still be polite but not too formal, so you don't sound too distant.
@@plasticflower As a german the only stressful thing literally is the du-sie-situation Otherwise you just say what you want to say regardless of who you talk to. It could be your mom, a stranger or the chancellor, doesn't matter. Furthermore addressing friends by their last names must feel awefully distant, I'd imagine.
My boss:" Hey, can you work on saturday?" Me: "No, I don't want to." My boss:" Understandable. While you are not flexible, I appreciate your steadiness." Me:" Thank you. You are a mediocre but likable boss."
Fin ich tatsächlich nicht. Fi de die Einteilung am unteren Ende der High Context Kulturen sinnvoll. Klar man ist hier direkt. Oft geht man davon aus, dass der gegenüber in einer Konversation Gedanken lesen kann. Vieles wird in einer Konversation als gegeben angenommen. Was aber nicht immer der Fall ist, wodurch Missverständnisse entstehen.
The funny thing is, people do a lot of these very often in, at least, America. I just don’t think they do it as intently or it isn’t as socially enforced to do so. We certainly do have a bit more directness of intentions, but even then it still is frequently seen as rude and it’s better to let down people evasively or softly. One of those moments where I think other cultures aren’t *as* different as we think.
i feel like this channel tries to make east asians an "other" which frankly I think is detrimental to the mental health of east asians living in western societies.
Yeah, we even have similar things where, say, you don’t start with a direct request, but instead with some pleasantries as if the request were a side note and you just wanted to get in touch. I thought the example of, “Let’s hang out sometime,” was interesting because we also probably won’t meet and it means something more like, “I enjoyed talking with you,” whether I actually enjoyed it or not is another matter.
Yeah, I'm. German and, upon reflection, I do a lot of those things too. It's definitely something that's only appropriate in a workplace setting or with (near) strangers though. When my colleagues go out for a drink and I don't want to come with them, I will almost always go for the "yes, but" response to politely decline their invitation. But with my friends I can just say "nah, don't feel like it" without worrying that I might hurt their feelings.
I think it is really depending on what is socially acceptable, for example it is more socially acceptable to be direct in US but certainly there are still unspoken rules that you have to follow. As an Asian I find it a lot more comfortable to be indirect sometimes, but I think the nature is the same, it is the use of certain "transaction" to bypass actual direct communication.
This was really interesting. Where I'm from, midwest USA, being indirect or lying/misdirecting to get out of answering something is the highest form of rudeness, and it will lose you respect among your peers and those above you (bosses, parents, etc). We consider it to be polite to either just say 'no' or give the actual reason instead of giving a fake excuse. Respect is gained by being direct and honest and lost when it is found out one was misdirecting just to 'make the other person feel better'. edit: Mom always said "Say what you mean and mean what you say. I don't like lies." another edit, just cause I thought a bit more on it: Around here, if your friend or friend group invite you to (insert activity), and you do not want to, responding with (insert misdirection), if they discover said misdirection you will be less likely to get future invitations. If you merely say 'no, I don't want to do that now' the friend or group will more often still invite you to other stuff than if you always make stuff up to get out of doing things.
See if you directly say no in Asia, they would think you really do not wanna hang out with them, so they will be too afraid to ask you again, because of the unwritten social norms. Also, a lot abt misdirection is that you're not supposed to be caught directly. Like the two of you may mutually get the sense that you actually don't want to go, but so long as you don't show evidence that you're lying, they would let you off the hook bc they know and participate in that culture themself. My mom (we're Chinese) said she hated liars and yet she would also make up excuses to not answer the phone or whatever. I suppose to her that's not the same as lying that you did x when you didn't do x. And I think that's the case in general, where there is not actually a difference in value in honesty, but that excuses to get out of events is not a show of dishonesty like stealing from someone and saying it was someone else is. Because as far as everyone is concerned, you getting sick and not being able to attend has the same outcome as you not wanting to go -- you are not there and the group will hang out without you. But if you're lying about doing a bad thing, then there is a real consequence of the bad thing being unpunished and that you may continue doing said bad thing.
@@cameronschyuder9034Would people who communicate so indirectly take the same super negative message from a "no" statement even if that statement was qualified by saying "no, but I still would really like to hang out another time"?
Yeah here in the states it’s far better to be upfront than make up whatever & get caught in a lie as the latter reflects negatively on your character as well as your consideration & value of others.
I also grew up in the Midwest (Great Lakes region), and both my personal experiences and the stereotypes I've always heard have stereotyped us as much more roundabout and passive-aggressive than other parts of the USA. (e.g., "They'll be super nice to you and then badmouth you behind your back.") It kind of threw me for a loop to read this comment stating the opposite. While obviously there are cultural norms differences across regions of the USA and between the USA and other countries, I think generally people both perceive and state these norms to be more generalized than they actually are, when really it might be specific to their town or even their family. I am also guessing that there's a lot of confirmation bias in how these perceptions are formed. Taking the "lying to get out of events is frowned upon in the US" as an example, it takes about five seconds of searching on social media to find USAmericans making jokes about doing just that to get out of commitments with friends (ie, saying they don't feel well or that they have obligations with family). I don't think that OP is wrong in stating that it's not very socially acceptable, exactly... but it does feel like a thing that people do _despite_ knowing it's is not very healthy from a communication standpoint, and they do anyways because it's easier to make a white lie than to tell someone you don't want to see them.
My first five years in Japan I tried very hard to adapt, but I realized no one really wants to be that way and they tend to appreciate foreigners more for acting like “typical foreigners” (super direct and stupidly positive and pushy) which I also am not, so now I’m just very gentle and polite about awkwardly breaking all the social rules, and most people seem to appreciate it as long as I am a bit self-depreciating and smile a lot.
Exactly this. Its like they have an expectation of how foreigners should be and if we don’t do that and actually comply to their customs, we’re almost looked down on? Maybe it’s just the way they interact with me though.
That's the gaijin pass I'm talking about. As a foreigner, you are expected to not follow certain nuances, and I like it that way. Just don't expect the native people to treat you as one of their kind. I have a friend who lives in Japan he told me an interesting story: one day he went to a friend’s house and chatted a bit. And then his friend said “Hey I would like to interest you with a cup of tea” Being a good foreigner who mastered the art of reading the room, my friend immediately caught the club and understood that it was the Kyoto people‘s way of saying “you are overstaying your visit “ as in “please have your last cup of tea and leave me alone “. So my friend began packing. And then his friend stopped him “No, please stay! You are not from Kyoto and I'll never talk to you like that (in an indirect and misunderstanding way). I really want you to try this nice cup of tea.” and they both laugh.
@@youre_totally_right_but_ I wouldn’t say looked down on, but rather treated like an alien. But because people tend to keep so much distance and have really high standards towards each other, I eventually gave up trying to be treated as the same and realized I’d be happier and make people happier if I could be a refuge from their social pressure
I feel sometimes that the more complicated the system is for softening face threatening acts, the more such acts you tend to commit. If you can hide meanness and being hurtful behind politeness and softening then its so much easier to be mean and hurtful. This is the dark side of high context cultures in Asia. It is a lot easier to tell someone horrible things if you can soften it rather than if you have to say it directly
Right like how does this affect empathy? Not to say they’re all not empathetic I just mean it’s interesting to think about how this might affect empathy
I remember when taking Japanese classes in Uni, they taught that especially when receiving an invitation to go do something with say a friend or coworker and you want to decline, you shouldn’t be upfront and say “sorry, I can’t go”, as you risk offending the other person, so to sound “nicer” you respond in a sort of roundabout way like 「それはちょっと」 (like “oh, about that” or “that’s kind of…”) and end it off. Oh also you don’t tend to bluntly state things you dislike such as food like when you are doing a homestay and they ask if you like certain foods, so you either say 「○○が苦手だ」 (I’m not too good with ___) or 「〇〇がちょっと」 (____ is kind of…) instead of using the word dislike (嫌い).
@@bigfoot9049 Yeah at least Japanese culture is like that where people tend to not outwardly express how they feel unless you’re super close with them (honne vs tatemae) and so you have to be an expert at reading the room (they call it “the air” or “atmosphere 「空気を読む」). And they do this to again, not offend other people. Actually a good example of this is when you speak Japanese as a foreigner in Japan, you’ll often be told 「日本語上手」 (Your Japanese is good). And it’s kind of a running joke in the Japanese learning community to where if you’re told that, your Japanese is really not that good, but the Japanese say it just to be nice to you/encourage you.
@@Yusuf-ok5rk as a native Chinese speaker, "the culture" mentioned by this commenter is able to be interpreted as "this kind of culture" in the Chinese language, and based on the video and comments' contexts, "this kind of culture" could be interpreted as "the high-context culture" instead of the whole culture behind the Chinese language. So when I read this comment, what I directly got is that the commenter is expressing being tired of communicating with people indirectly. In my experiences, there are not only always lots of misunderstandings but also some awkward situations where some people who do not like you just deliberately ignore your indirect refusal pretending that they don't get it and do things that you really and literally hate to make you feel bad and you are not able to complain it as you "agreed" what they would do. BTW in China Gongdou dramas are extremely popular (like Zhen Huan Zhuan) in which the high context culture is everywhere.
I worked at the Naval Ship Repair Facility in Yokosuka Japan for three years. My work environment was almost exactly 50% U.S. and 50% Japanese. One of the biggest growing pains was learning when yes actually meant yes, when yes meant no, and when no meant yes. It's really hard for people from Western cultures to wrap their heads around initially.
I'm an American living and working in China, and this is extremely true, with both casual interactions and closer relationships. For example, I have had so many coworkers who are afraid to tell me that something bad has happened or has changed. So much so that in (albeit extreme) cases they simply do not inform us of a problem like a schedule change or a coworker leaving the company, and we are left to find out this news until the last possible minute, some times literally. I recognize these instances as often times coming from cultural differences/friction, but it can be quite frustrating at times when the supposed 'face saving' action leads to further issues that I would argue lead to further loss of face, though more indirectly (which may be the point).
That is not the same as not saying no. I worked in China for years and people were quite blunt (unless it was about politics or security, in which case they would get very avoidant and embarrassed). Maybe your work environment is like that. Do you speak mandarin?
@@turnipsociety706 did you watch the video? The point is that saving face is much more prioritized in East Asia, not that it's a unique thing (hence the existence of the phrase 'saving face' in English). And I agree that Chinese can be blunt in some scenarios, such as when giving commands or presenting things. My situation was more about asking, for instance, "hey can I schedule X important activity on this day?" and the response is often some variation of 'probably' or 'yes'. But suddenly a higher up sends out a notification the day before saying they expect all of us to attend something that some of my other colleagues had been informed of earlier. It seemed the middle management just preferred to be vague and let me find out last minute rather than just say "hey sorry scheduling that won't work on that day" (which is preferable to having to scramble last minute to accommodate)
I think England's posistion on that little list to be honest does feel about right. I think it also explains why we think French people are rude and Germans are extremely blunt. That being said however we may be hight context by the standards of the west but clearly East Asia is another story.
I feel like in England is where being blunt can be interpreted as a form of dry humor. The low context nature of it paradoxially meant to be high context in the idea that it's low context in a high context environment, or the 2nd party's perceived denial of the 1st party of being high context when acting low context to gaslight the 2nd party into thinking they are thinking too much, which in itself becomes the context of the humor in the mind of the 2nd party.
@@ricenoodles632 I went on a little binge researching this topic after I watched this 2 weeks ago, it did suggest that one of our strategies for saving face and diffusing awkwardness in the UK is humour. I'm sure that's at least somewhat true everywhere but we are known for our humour internationally and this could be a plausible explanation for where that reputation comes from.
As a saudi girl im happy arab countries are mentioned because yes we are a high context culture Like i remember my mom telling me that if somebody decided to invite me to a wedding or some occasion just the day before than 99% they dont want me to come but have to invite anyways because its an ettiquete and the contradiction here is that proper way to react is by declining that invitation even if you wanted to go. only if it came early ahead then its ok to come because then they actually want to see you this specific act of inviting someone just before the occasion is called in southern provience dialect “تِعِذَّار" which can be translated to “making excuse” because you’re making excuse for someone’s absence by saying “i invited them but they couldn’t make it” but again you invited them too late Maybe its not a common thing in all arab countries or saudi proviences but theses contradictions are countless We as arab also have the same “yes=no” issue to a certain extent, saing stuff like “i wish i could but i wont make it” and “apologies, i made some plans ahead and come” also saying “إن شاء الله" literally meaning if god will but depending on the tone said in it could be yes or no Knowing this i was always wondering how autistic people in our culture are surviving but my mom told me they don’t (because my mom’s uncle is autistic and he never show his face outside his house and everyone making rumors about him being possessed)
So is Inshallah sometimes meant as an Earthly way to smooth conversations, but in other times it's meant as a sincere, humble acknowledgement of God's power? So sometimes it means "maybe but I don't want to promise anything" and other times it means "yes, but of course God may have other plans for me"? If so, what an interesting little phrase.
@@chrisharris331 That phrase, while being something very solemn in a vacuum, basically became cursed to me. The way people use it makes me instantly think "Oh s/he will never do it. Forget it." I remember an Italian working in UAE complaining, ranting, and seething every time he heard that phrase.
german here: Beating about the bush can be seen as an indication of lack of trust or anticipation of an inability to deal with criticism here. The more you trust someone, the less you filter yourself when speaking to them. Questions arise like: - "Is she/he afraid of my reaction to being told 'no'?" -> I want to reassure that she/he can trust me to be accepting of her/him including her/his preferences. - "Does she/he think i can't handle being told 'no'? -> OK, so we are not very close. (if incorrect) / OK, i'm in a safe place with her/him. (if correct) While not thinking in the category of 'face', these 'yes = no' phenomena are still relevant here as we still don't want others to experience the hurtful feeling of rejection. These tactics are therefor used based on your evaluation of the character of the person (self-confidence) you're saying 'no' to as well as the potential of the 'no' to be hurtful. The urge to use these ways of nonexplicit rejection might be weaker, but it's still happening. With openly saying 'no' being a valued ability, being told 'no' loses its weight as well. With being told 'no' not being a rare occasion, it doesn't really attack you as a person and primarily promts questions about the preferences of the person saying 'no', secondarily about the qualities of the recipient of the 'no'. Then, individualism strikes again. There is no universal german culture when it comes to high - context or low - context communication, but individuals and social circles differ. My university friendgroup has both ends of the spectrum in it - and things work. Friends learn each others prefered communication style and put different emphasis on the spoken and different levels of attention to implicit and non - verbal communication. This does not mean that there isn't any friction. As a high - context communicator, you can be seen as 'being complicated', while as a low - context communicator, you can be seen as rude/inconsiderate. When i heared about the difficulity to say 'no' especially to your boss, who is in a position of power, my alarm bells for danger of abuse rang instinctively.
I just call it what it is: lying. That's why we have so many comedys and dramadys that play on all the ways this goes wrong, because the consequences of lying are usually more uncomfortable than the truth; Sometimes its okay to lie, like survival or safety. I would argue that these types of lies are actually more harmful than just honestly expressing disintetest in a non-harmful manner.
This may be similar to what I frequently needed to sit down and talk with new staffs at work - "you need to learn to say no". They often said yes to what they wouldn't be able to fulfill (e.g. being asked by a superior), took responsibility beyond what they were supposted to (e.g. being asked by a colleage), or agreed to something absurd :D
This is a major problem with imported labor. If you ask an Indian programmer to fix something or ask an Indian electrician to install something a certain way, they will say yes then completely ignore the instruction. It seems cultural because almost all of the immigrant ones act this way, so it creates a reputation of them being scammers and liars.
I went to japan for a year in 2019 and i didn’t really know this at the beginning. I knew that language wise they never really say no, but instead something like „well it‘s a little …. [inconvenient]“ (the brackets being implied, not said out loud like ちょっと…) but i didn’t know that they do much more than just switch the word. I asked some people if they wanted to meet again, and ALL of them were like „omg yes!!! I am basically already in love with u! I wanna be ur friend forever! Let‘s do this!!!!🤩“ and then just never show up😂 i felt so rejected at first and as a german, where being direct is actually polite (to not waste energy and time) i felt it was super rude. Like i came at a certain place at a certain time but they just didn’t show up after saying yes hahah. Saying no would have been nicer. At least that‘s how i felt bc i didn’t understand the culture. I stopped asking people and it was kinda difficult to find japanese friends. But that just made me wanna be fluent in japanese and spend more time in japan to REALLY understand the culture beyong a tourist level understanding :)
Well, I'm Japanese, but even from a Japanese perspective, not showing up after making an appointment to meet is rude and unusual. You should cut ties with people like that, and understand that not all Japanese people are like them.
@@ARKSAAXX-ys9gz yeah i didn‘t mean to generalize, it wasn’t super specific, more like we were in shibuya and we said to meet tomorrow here again, so i would go anyways but they didn’t show up. I did make some actual „appointments“ like once we went to a museum that was 1h away from shinjuku and he showed up, if he didn’t i would def not classify as „cultural differences“ but just bad behavior. I mean in general, everyone was sooo nice to me and made me feel like the did really like me and wanted to meet again, but almost nobody actually ever wanted to be friends and they were probably just polite and i misunderstood. Because being polite in germany means to be very honest, it‘s more polite to be a lil mean and honest than to pretend that you like someone so that one interaction is smoother. But i understand the value of keeping this social harmony, even if I PERSONALLY find it a lil superficial sometimes
Many years ago i was a US Navyman in Japan. One thing that stuck with me from arriving there was the cultural orientation brief. A lot of info about how to not offend the locals, how to behave, how to use public transit, essential things like that. The one example that really stuck with me, and sounds very much like the high/low context culture subject you talk about was a visual demonstration. The instructor told a story about getting his car fixed at a mechanic, and how the mechanic was very vague about what the problem was, ending by saying that the mechanic wouldn't outright tell him what was wrong, and wanted the instructor to pick a course of action. Perhaps for fear of being wrong, or politeness or not wanting to have to tell the instructor what to do. The instructor drew out two points on a white board and then drew a winding spiral from one dot to the other, looping around and around and said to the effect of 'this is what a conversation in Japan is like'. He then said he went to America, and needed car work there too, went to garage and the mechanic there immediately told him what was wrong with the car and how much it would cost to fix. The instructor erased the white board and redrew the two dots and connected them with a straight line, 'this is what a conversation in America is like'. So I think Mr. Hall is on to something. I wouldn't even know how to quantify or measure high vs low context cultures. I would agree that America is a low context culture, as the many of the listed ways of saying no by saying yes would come across to me as evasive or disingenuous. Being told no isn't an affront. If I am asking the question, then in most cases I am imposing the imposition on someone else. I am the one burdening the other, they have every right to say no and say it directly to my face. The strange side of all this to me is that if this elaborate cultural context yes=no situation is known to everyone, and an established and wide spread phenomenon then isn't it self defeating? If going through some elaborate steps to say no by saying yes is common knowledge, as it would have to be otherwise it would be ineffective and lost on the recipient and this lost meaning would be interpreted as a genuine yes, then doesn't everyone understand that yes=no and thus the message received by the audience is 'No'? The whole point seems to be to say no in a way that is mistaken for a yes, but if everyone is in on the context that yes=no, then the audience is still receiving a no message and thus nothing is avoided? And if the audience doesn't know that yes=no then they assume the answer they heard was a genuine yes. Wouldn't that lead to misunderstandings or frustrations? Or am I missing the whole point that yes=no is solely performative, and even if the message is understood as a No all the performative evasion and double speak is in itself the point? A sort of 'I am saying no to you, but due to east Asian cultural reasons I am going to say many vague words about my frog, my situation, or whatever it takes to make an abstract excuse' and going through that performative effort becomes the apology for the No. I don't know, it seems like a real problem. Why would anyone ever believe anyone else if yes=no and everyone is too polite or scared to say no? It sounds like a situation where every question, every request would be answered the same way no matter the true intention of the person answering. At that point, why bother asking? You know you'll get a 'yes' as an answer, but you know you can't trust that yes to actually mean yes so the answer to your question provides you with no trustworthy information.
As a person with autism, I do not respect high context cultures. No human is a mind reader, the expectation that others have to divine the bones of the interaction to determined that you meant the opposite of what you claimed is always a negative. I do not care about your face, your aura, or whatever. I will say what I mean to make sure there is no confusion and I will hold you to what you say as well.
This is one way why other animals are so cool. Relationships with them are really simple, obvious, and predictable. If you go to a dog making sounds and body language it likes, it's eager to have a good time. With people there's this potentially ridiculously complicated wasteland you have to cross.
As an autist, I struggled with this as a child, but I eventually grew to accept it out of necessity, but it also helped by seeing it as a form of puzzle.
I don't have autism but I'm always one for low context. My problem is that I always have the tendency to interpret everything someone says as sarcasm or passive aggressiveness
I'm similar as an autistic girlie with immigrant parents stuck in the US. you can try to read into context clues, but it's grasping a language you've never rly been included in, and will never fully master. i've learned to follow the energy of a person and stick to my intuition. been also fed up with some americans being like "oh you tend to come off rude" or "you sound like you're talking down..." when it was really them being a jerk and exgergatting my tone. you can never please everyone, regardless of adapting to social cues that don't always make sense
I was told that - in the west, the natural state of things is chaos. Laws and norms are there to protect the individual. - in asian culture, the natural state of things is harmony. The human tends to disrupts this, so laws and norms are in place to protect the general state of harmony.
Interesting, would it also be accurate to phrase it as "society existing to serve the needs of people" versus "people existing to serve the needs of society?"
The Western view is the correct one. Unless you define "harmony" the same way Victorian England pre-Darwin saw nature as "harmonious" because it was all God-ordained, ie. the fox kills the rabbit for a good reason.
Yes, exactly! I’m from Poland, where yes means yes and no means no. People are not afraid to say it. I have such a hard time with this concept in Vietnam. Cultural differences are literally harder to grasp than the language itself.
True, and intentionally ignoring the question, tangential responses, or delaying answers (without actually answering) is perceived as rude here. A hard clash..
Awhile back I watched Moon Channel's "Gacha gaming and the Korean gender war" and when he got to the story of Korean Air flight 801 it all seemed genuinely alien to me. Hearing you say a majority of east Asian people will have anxiety when saying no to someone is wild.
it was also a very particular situation. It was at work, where hierarchies are very important. Korean are kinda extreme even among asians on how much importance they put on seniority. And it was a junior captain talking to a senior captain, think army hierarchy, even in western militaries it is not easy to say no to your superiors in a straight forward way. Didn't they also had to speak english which means subtlety get lost in translation ?
@@floflo1645 They were not speaking English. In fact, the incident resulted in all cockpit communication being required to be in English as a function of removing subtlety. Be direct in life and death scenarios. I was in the US military. I was very direct and said no to direct superiors frequently enough that I can't recall every time it happened. And yeah, Moon Channel makes it very clear Korea goes above and beyond what is reasonable with indirect speak. Even for east Asia.
@@LauraVanessaEscobarSalazar The gacha one I suppose. He doesn't promote gacha games, he just does video essays that center around video games, anime, and east Asia. His channel is called Moon Channel. Not sure if that helps.
Over the last few years, I have been working on learning Gaelic to better connect with my ancestral roots. One thing I learned early on was that in that language, there is no word for “yes” or “no.” It kind of boggled my mind since I often find that at least in the culture I grew up in, those words are amongst the first young children might learn. Such fascinating things language is. Thank you for this video!
@@hansalanson3497 from an English perspective, Gaelic questions could be answered with yes/no, but within that language, the appropriate response would essentially be to reframe the question with an affirmative or a decline.
@@hansalanson3497 Exactly. That being said, Irish folklore…like many others, are known for clever tricksters. To the question you presented, even a sincere answer doesn’t mean you are safe…it just means the person doesn’t have a sickle. Knowing how to ask the right question is more important than the answers you might receive…again language x culture is so fascinating.
It took me way too long to realize that Canadians, especially in Vancouver and Toronto, are basically the same. "We should hang out sometime" is the biggest example of this (s w e t)
Great discussion. And this is taken further: It's often impolite to ask a yes/no question because it puts the other person in the uncomfortable position of possibly having to come up with a polite rejection. There are some amazingly artful strategies for asking such questions indirectly. It's simply astounding to watch conversations between skillfully polite East Asians: the questions and answers are indirect but both people understand each other perfectly, and moreover feel gratitude for each other for being sensitive to even the slightest cause for anxiety. Perhaps you can do a follow up video on that!
I am obsessed with your videos! I have never clicked so fast on a YT notification as I did on this one. The way you deliver your information is very engaging, and I feel like I learn so much in such a brief amount of time. 🥰
2:48 Hierarchy. 5:40 Power distance. "They would be quite conscious of behaving according to where they are in the hierarchy" Honest and direct person: I'm sorry, I was taught to embrace equality and freedom. I do not acknowledge your hierarchical system. Unless you are in a position to give me orders. That position is limited to my direct boss and in consideration of how much I am paid.
Honesty and directness have a place in hierarchy, but it's a thing most common in Anglo-Saxon culture where direct responses are seen as respectful by showing you're worthy of respect. This goes back a long ways. Anglo-Saxons back in the Early Middle Ages didn't feel that negotiations were proper unless both sides were armed with weapons. Despite this they've still had their moments. The Victorian Era cast a long shadow where the British acted very Eastern in their indirectness and the English Understatement is a good example of it in a charming way.
There is a channel run by a Japanese man and his German wife, and they operate it primarily in Japanese. While you can often see them having lighthearted disagreements, the German wife frequently respects her husband's opinions, demonstrating her genuine fondness for Japan. However, there are moments when her German nature subtly comes through, creating a fascinating balance in their conversations.
Unfortunately, I don't know why, but whenever I write their channel name, it doesn't appear in the comments. Their channel is perfectly appropriate and wholesome
I have a weird relationship with one friend of mine because she has a high reciprocity expectation but I don't, so when I give her things I expect nothing in return, and when she gives me things she expects reciprocity, but I don't even know how to reciprocate half the time 💀 She doesn't seem too put off by it but I mind that I can't figure out how to pay her back in any normative way, I feel really guilty about it actually!
If there were no negative consequences of saying what you think, people would not need to lie. Saying no to anyone is not disrespectful. What is disrespectful is to not accept when someone says no. Social dynamics actually impair proper development and true potential of many individuals.
It's interesting how the Germans are very collectivist and mirror the Japanese in many aspects but at the same time has one of the most no-nonsense straight to the point communication ever.
Nonono we do this in the US too. 4:40 if you’re in the military once you hit the higher NCO ranks or officer ranks you’ll learn about how to help everyone save face to maintain morale. It’s a complicated skill which is why a lot of societies don’t do it and instead emphasize being direct
Something I find really interesting is how much of the misunderstanding stems from the inherent difference between these cultures and modern western cultures. We have no real understood hierarchy at a cultural level and we find it far more rude to be indirect and unclear; thus, by being soft or indirect the result ends up being the exact opposite of what was intended.
I don't think this is as uncommon in the West as it may appear. It's less dominant, but countless women growing up here are taught to be agreeable, even when they don't want to, hence giving rise to the stereotype of women being passive aggressive and actually mean "i'm not fine" when they mean "i'm fine." Men do this too but it's less of a gender expectation (the gender stereotype is actually the opposite, at least when it comes to men in straight relationships) moreso than a self-esteem thing. Or at least that's one of the reasons.
Have you heard of race? That’s a very easy and prominent example of people in the Global North understanding hierarchy. So is gender. So is disability. I could go on. Hierarchy is absolutely everywhere because the various global oppressors (the capitalists, the various governments, oppressive social institutions, etc) like hierarchy. It benefits them. There are no “low hierarchy” societies. That’s what ANARCHISTS like me seek to create. Societies without social hierarchy. Where all this jockeying for position would be gone and everyone would be treated just as fellow Humans
@@cameronschyuder9034I was just thinking of this gender aspect. I went to school in Germany and they literally taught us in German class that expressing things indirectly is "women's language" and that it often leads to misunderstandings between men and women. It really annoys me how this was presented to us as some basic fact without further explanation or historic context.
I come from Finland, which is also apparently considered a rather high-context culture for some reason. While I do understand the thought process behind these sorts of soft rejections, the whole thing just seems to be backwards in my opinion. Finnish communication is even more direct than many other western countries, since the whole point is that no one really wants to talk with anyone else. ("Life is suffering in general, why would you increase someone's suffering by talking with them?" is quite ingrained to our mentality.) In essence giving a direct rejection is seen as a similar "face saving" action, since by doing so you're not "wasting" anyone's time. We're all considered equal so there's no need to consider anyone's hierarchical position anyway, saying what you mean and meaning what you say is seen as YOU saving YOUR face by showing that your words can be trusted, instead of YOU trying to save THE OTHER'S face, if that makes sense. If your words can't be trusted when you say you want to meet up again for something insignificant like a coffee, how could your words be trusted when you say you'll come by to help with a communal task or something else that would actually matter?
My friend's go to "yes but no" is that she is not feeling well. I know she's not "sick" but instead is just not interested in doing something that day. We just pivot then to find a day she is free, lol. Sometimes it's hard to tell people, especially your friends no, it's understandable.
@educateyourself3872 Yeah, you're just incorrect, I'm sorry. Some people myself included have a hard time saying no to friends. She's one of my closest friends in the world, and she can do whatever is most comfortable for her. Sometimes that's a straight no, and sometimes it's a polite "I don't feel well enough today". Don't talk on people's friendships when you don't know anyone here personally. Thanks.
@@TrekkieBrieyou missed the whole point of the video. You think “yes but no” means “I don’t feel well enough today”. That’s a no with a fake excuse. This video is talking about “yes I will go let’s do it… I have to do some homework though”. Totally different than what you’re saying your friend does. Since I said IMO, I’m not incorrect. It’s my opinion. You would probably be closer friends if you could explain directly because there would be no need to save face. Perhaps your definition of a true friend is looser than mine, but it doesn’t mean I’m incorrect. Just my opinion.
@educateyourself3872 you're wrong and I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, nor the people who you are talking about.
@@TrekkieBrie you don’t need to validate your friendship to me. I’m sure it’s just fine for you. Just hanging out or buying gifts, that’s one level for me but there’s a higher level; I tell my best friends the truth. I am comfortable with their truths and they are comfortable with mine. And I feel better when they do things for me like give up a few of their whole Saturdays to help me do DIY or move and unload furniture all day for no pay. I have friends that will travel with me and buy stuff but they won’t do the former things I mentioned. They are just in the friend category for me, not the best friend. Best friends I can say no to and they can say no to me. There is a level of trust and respect that doesn’t necessitate saving face, similar to that of family.
I was on a first date with a Japanese woman. We were ending the date, about to go our separate ways, and I asked her if I could give her a kiss. She nodded vigorously, smiled, and said, "yes". I leaned in for a kiss, and she recoiled and pulled away. I was confused. I said, "I thought you said yes?". She replied, "I didn't mean it". Most awkward end to a date in my life.
In germany, often, not always, it's the opposite Saying "No, I don't feel like it.", would be polite Saying "No, I'm sorry, I don't feel like it.", is most polite, but creates formal distance. But in a formal setting you would rather say "No, I'm sorry, not this time." Or "No, I'm sorry, I can't make it that day." (Lie) "I can't make it that day" is also somewhat popular between friends, but people will likely feel a little hurt if they find out you lied. "Lying" or just deflecting is generaly inpolite. 'If you can't be honest to somone, then you don't like them', is the sentiment. Very formal settings are the ones in which you get a lying/deflecting free card, except if the other is visibly trying to establish friendly, pal like relations. In context "Will you come to my party" "yes, I do have to be there for my partner when they come home though.", would just confuse people. A follow up "During which times can you be there then?", is almost guaranteed.
Idk, I see a ton of high context communication/rejection in America as well. I'm not sure if it belongs that close to low context. I think it's just more acceptable to also communicate in a low context fashion, with less repercussions. We tend to chalk it up to different personality types (such as extroversion vs introversion, or assertive communication vs passive communication) or levels of social awareness. It's also highly context dependant, where it's more acceptable to be very direct if a straight answer is necessary or if emotions are heated. Many people still choose to speak in a high context fashion, whether it's to maintain relationships, ensure continued business, or to protect people's feelings. Maybe it would be more correct to state that high context communication is more of a requirement in Asian cultures, where as it's optional (but still prevalent) in American culture. Great video though! Definitely an interesting topic to think about! 😄
I come from Germany and yes, that's absolutely right. We mainly look at what is said literally. And we mean it. But a small change in grammar or in the choice of words, sometimes even just one letter, can change the meaning. The advantage of this is that you can express yourself very precisely and present subtleties better because there are simply fewer possible interpretations. And yet, if you look at literature, you can also see authors from all times and places who are able to write extraordinary poetry in German.
This level of “saving face” can also cause people not to develop thicker skin. Hanging out with Japanese is like walking on eggshells, except with those who have been/grew up in a low-context culture. They seem to strike a better balance.
It's so odd to me seeing this kind of Gen Z memespeak under a channel like this, which is generally a place for insightful adult discussions about socio-political issues. It's like looking under an NPR article and seeing comments like "shit is fire 🔥🔥🔥" and "goated" and "the bibliography at the end is bussin'".
@@rg_888 NPR and TH-cam are different platforms, to be fair. One is much more informal/casual than the other. That said, even if it was NPR, I don't see a problem with those comments. The problematic comments (imo) are those that show excessive aggression and/or show that they clearly didn't read the article or took a completely different meaning than was intended. I would much rather see "shit is goated" than whatever conspiracy theory someone has to insert in the convo
I believe it was supposed to be a ranking, Japan at the top and Germany at the bottom, France was basically on the lower end and England for example was slap bang in the middle.
Its honestly why so many of my east asian friends are just straight up dishonest for no reason. Saying yes or trying to leave a polite impression on someone in the expense of expressing what you truly feel about them is to me at least, is not a show of respect. It is rather deceitful.
Thank you! I've been thinking this the entire time. If you don't wanna hang out just say so, I'll find something else to do or go alone. I have a feeling I'd be laughing alot if I went to japan.
But then if they straight up say no to you, that is considered spitting on your face. Sometimes, saving face is not for them but for the other person. 😂 I can't believe I can understand the nuance. I was considered uncouth and disrespectful esp. in my teenage years because I was too blunt. It took me a long long while to learn to curb my tongue. This also affects your career. You have to give face to the other person, otherwise you will be severing ties.
@@CL-gc6pe Yeah go ahead living life trying to save face to most people you interact with, purely out of the fact that you think you might need them in the future. You're the exact type of people I was describing. Reptilians also curb their tongue frequently too, there may be correlation 🤔 don't you think?
Interesting. I'm an indigenous person from Canada and much of this is very similar in my community. I just thought it was normal. Cultures in the west are varied too, not everyone here is an individualist american.
Very cleanly explained. Really had me thinking a lot about things that every culture takes for granted, not realizing it isn't the same everywhere else in the world
this is why i never felt fitting in my culture as a neurodivergent asian with a bit of rebellion. i would straight up say no to people and be direct like i don’t give a f. i get very annoyed whenever i see people can’t just make a rejection, to me that’s lack of boundaries
Which is why neurodivergent people have a reputation for being stubborn. It really comes down to disobedience being the go to style of expressing dissatisfaction, which ironically is a behaviour conditioned by neurotypical people. Where more vocal forms of expressing dissatisfaction just comes off as rude to neurotypical people and people tend not to like teaching others how to politely say no to them, the only choice left for neurodivergent people to express dissatisfaction is to just silently disobey and do whatever they were doing anyway.
Same. I hate to say it, but this video makes me hate being Asian, and makes me feel like I'll never belong with other Asian people, and there's no hope in ever making friends with other Asian people. They're just too different from me, and there's nothing I can do to change that.
Here in Brasil we have similar concepts about not saying no, one of the most used one its the expression "Vou ver e te aviso", it means something like I will let you know
"no one is ever going to ask something, expecting to be turned down" that's not a request, that's an _order_. the hierarchy is so weak where I live I can interrupt my boss mid sentence to reject them.
About 12 years ago I was on holiday in Phuket, Thailand. I was going to a bar beside the hotel most evenings. There was a pool table and I'd play pool with the bar maids, I'm terrible at pool and the bar maids were all very good players. It became clear to me very quickly that they were all trying to lose to me, the problem was that I'm so bad at pool I was still losing. I knew they were trying to save my face, but to me, a Brit, it was much more embarrassing that they were obviously throwing the game than losing the game. After talking to the bar owner, he explained to them that I was losing face when they didn't play to beat me. After a few games and I didn't have a negative reaction to losing they relaxed and wiped the floor with me. I maybe won 1 in every 4 or 5 games. And bought them a drink every third game they beat me, it was too costly to buy them a drink every time they beat me.
Weirdly, this is quite common in New Zealand. Not in the same way, but we have a cultural aversion to saying no to things directly. Generally if a NZer says "oh yeah I'm not sure" that is about as hard of a 'no' as you'll get. There's also "Yeah nah", "Nah yeah I don't know", "probably not", "maybe", and a bunch of other terminologies that we'll give to say no.
Considering East Asian cultures' historical(and current) exploitation of women and girls, I can't help but think of the horrifying implications of this kind of cultural thing.
High/low context sounds similar to guess/ask culture, except it’s more about the question than the answer. In guess culture, you put the context burden on the asker so that they can get a low context answer. You only ask if you think the answer will be yes, and, if you’re not sure it will be, provide an out for them to comfortably say no.
I guess these differences are mainly a matter of proportion right? Like, here in the west we don't always say how we feel because we might be concerned about the consequences or the effect it will have on someone. We absolutely have 本音 and 建前. For example, if your grandparents call you and ask you to do some chores for them, you might get evasive about responding because you don't want to. But internally you will definitely consider "How does this make me look within the family?", "How does this make me look as a grandchild? "Will people judge me for this?" I guess in East Asian culture, the bubble of "Things I won't say in public" is just much larger and includes far more topics.
Thanks for explaining why a korean girl I worked with could never give a straight answer for anything! I always just thought she didn't like me, which may still be true, but it seems less likely to have been intentional now!
We’re much like this in Brazil. We even have the “We should totally hang out” that never actually follows through. We also come up with a lot of excuses in order to say no in a less direct ar harsh way. Scholars theorized it was because our society was very hierarchical specially back in the time of slavery, so we developed a very cordial code of communication as a sort of defense mechanism.
That makes communication so ineffective. It's the complete opposite to my culture (German), where you bluntly say no to someone else and you dont sugercoat anything. I had some Asian colleagues and it was really tiresome because you never knew if they really meant yes or yes(no).
Oh! So the inventor of the spoon and fork asked if anyone wanted to try them and they said something like ‘no’ but actually meant yes. Thus changing history
Thank you for mentioning the confucianism being the underlying reason for these issues. The focus on 礼教 (etiquette?) makes it impossible to challenge your superiors. The social hierarchy overshadows individual identity (君君臣臣父父子子). The whole Confucianism is telling us to perform as were expected to, to always prioritize the etiquette. There’s no individualism and logic in this system.
Reminds of me of some of the cringeworthy interactions I've seen between our French sales and potential Korean clients. The French guy was directly saying to the clients about the level of debt in their businesses.. Which is just a big faux pa's in East Asia given it implies that business is not creditworthy, made a lot of meetings more awkward than they needed to be. I raised it with him and his response was that in South East Asia where he usually covers (Malaysia/Phillipines/Indonesia/Thailand) they are more direct and wont take similar comments to heart, is that true?
the way my grandma explained it to me that i shouldnt say no when come to invitation or being asked a favor is because the other person consider you as someone that matter in their life, so by saying no, you are outright rejecting their goodwill and that could sour the relationship between you and the other person... this is especially importance when come to invitation to an event like a birthday party or a wedding.
Great video as usual! Very interesting topic. For the sake of ease, you contrast East VS West, but what I've noticed is that within Western cultures, the ones that were traditionally Protestant, tend to lean more towards "low context culture", whereas the ones that are/used to be Catholic tend to lean more towards "high context culture", making them more similar to "the East". This is very obvious when comparing different regions where they speak the same language like the Netherlands (protestant+low context) VS Belgium (catholic+high context) or the North VS the South of Germany.
I don't know if it's just about Catholic vs. Protestant, because in the US for example, the South (which is overwhelmingly Protestant) is much more high-context than in the Northeast (there's not a Catholic majority, but most states have more Catholics than Protestants)
As a neurodivergent person i actually like how east asians value dependency. Yes, my autism would definitely struggle with the indirect communication but i love how kindness like paying for my meal so we can hang out next time fosters an environment that combats loneliness and uplifts reciprocity. Capitalism loves individualism and as a disabled person ive been told that its not other people's jobs to accommodate to my needs. So i like how being considerate matters, it shows a village helping each other out, dividing tasks instead of having to move out and figure out everything on your own. Which is great for a for-profit system but not good for the environment. I believe there should be a balance between collectivism and individualism. I like the clear honest communication + the community aspect and politeness. P.S: I reccomed OliSUNvia video on self care.
My fascination with Japanese culture is connected to this actually. I'm autistic and part of how that manifests for me is a natural tendency towards direct, frank communication - and as a result, I often forget to consider that people might be acting disingenuously. My directness and disregard of social hierarchy (another thing so unnatural to me that I forget it exists) have gotten me in a lot of trouble throughout my life. I can't wrap my mind around it, so learning about cultures that structure their language and society around hierarchy + politeness kind of helps me understand it better, I guess? My personality is a horrible match for Japanese culture, and it's part of why I want to understand it better.
As someone with ASD that takes thing literally as they are said and who is very direct i feel like this would confuse me a lot for when i visit, thanks for diving into it.
The thing I like the most in your videos is that they are super elaborated, easy to understand e have lots and lots of USEFUL CONTENT!! Thank you very muuuch aini, I really like your videos, I'm always waiting for the next one, they're the same time entertaining as much as informative, those cultural similarities and differences give us new ideas to reflect about life using those different perspectives, it's kind of cool. Keep up with the content, you rock! o/
I live in Japan and have found a solution to all this: when a binary question is met with a non-binary answer, explicitly feign confusion. This begins a feedback loop where the other person must provide increasingly more detail to a make-belief answer. Eventually, you'll get your "no". (Only use with people who are already friends and who have ample opportunity to get you back.)
This is a serious problem for western professors dealing with asian students, because they are high authority compared to the student, and do not have the cultural context to understand that the student saying "I can do it" in certain ways really means "please don't expect me to," and leads to poor, stressed students with angry, disappointed professors.
As a graduated East Asian studies major who then lived 6 years in East Asia and after grad school now does work regarding Asia, I also love her videos! She's giving academic level commentary in a really usable and understandable way. I also love having a TH-camr who talks about the in-depth Asian Studies topics I love, rather than just scratching the surface.
I am European, working for a Japanese company and currently on a one year assignment in Japan. Your videos are gold, I appreciate you🙏🙏 it makes me reconsider all the self-help books I read (e.g. clear is kind by Brene brown). I wonder about the perception of consent? How does romance work in east Asia?
As an Italian, I would say that my culture is somewhat in the middle. In the past generations we where a high-context based culture but now we are progressively more similar to the "Western" side of the spectrum as generations pass... It is true that we have some indirect expressions when we want say "no" to other people that are considered more polite than an actual "no" and we also use some "ritual formulas" which do not really mean what we are actually saying when, for example, we meet people we know in the street!
Boss: "Wanna go for drinks Friday night?" Central Europeans (Germans, Hungarians, Poles etc): "No I have better things to do*", or "No, I don't feel like it" > these are all perfectly acceptable answers. (*Well not literally, it usually involves what that is, like I need to clean my house, I have some work in my garden, I have to look after my family etc.). But the simple "I don't feel like going out" without further explanation is also acceptable, because no one (no one normal at least) wants to drag someone along who doesn't want to go out.
as a german I immediately thought "we're probably more of a low context culture" only for the graph to have us at the literal bottom lmao so I'd say that's pretty accurate. saying yes when I really mean no seems wild to me
The high context culture thing is quite common in traditional British culture, but less so these days with the huge level of immigrantion making the cultural context weaker. Low context cultures often come these sorts of internationalised situations to cut cultural barriers in communication, which is why America is extremely low context. I've been told if an English person is saying "Nice to meet you" they're really saying "fuck you", but this is less so a thing with my generation for the aforementioned reasons so I wouldn't really know.
I've found the idea of keeping face to be so strange, it's not like there's a score sitting over the top of your head showing how often you've been disrespected or denied. Shouldn't the onus be on the one being refused to show emotional maturity and move on with their day?
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@aini_ i would love your videos without theese unnessesery "micro cuts" .. trau dich.. äh "you can do it"
.. we will have enough talking ai-robots on here soon enough ;)
Y'all really can't just treat people like people, huh? Is EVERY interaction over there done with the thought of whether the person you're interacting with is above or below your own worth?
That's inhuman. Viewing people in terms of their value is something narcissists do... What does that say about your culture?
@@florianxmerten Wrong.
@@demonwolf8024 Ah yes..
*Anti-semitism*
@Real-Name..Maqavoy How is a comment about east Asian cultures antisemitic? They ain't Jewish and antisemitism is specifically against those of the Jewish faith.....
Tell me you only know buzzwords without knowing their meanings without telling me....
As a Japanese, this video is soo true😂
Especially the way people in Kyoto communicate is so hight context and complicated that even Japanese themselves don't fully understand it and often misinterpret it lol. （For example, when they say "You have a nice watch", they mean "Your talk is too long".）
By Kyoto, do you mean people from the city or the prefecture?
(god that is an amazing way to express that though 😄)
@@APR310Yes. The most popular city for foreign tourist where you can see very traditional Japanese townscape.
Your “talk” is too long. What does this mean? Like “you’re talking too much”?
@@APR310yes
"No one asks a question expecting to be turned down"
It's interesting the level of contrast between different cultures. In middle eastern culture it's almost the opposite. There are so many questions people will be obliged to ask, but they'll be expecting a no to. For instance, due to hospitality rules, if someone stops by your house or gives you a ride home, you're expected to ask them in. However, in such cases, you're typically expecting the other person to decline (same thing if someone you know walks in on you eating. If it's something you can share it's considered rude not to offer it, but again, you're offering it with the expectation they'll decline). It's something that can really throws those not familiar with the culture off, especially with how persistent people will be, asking a question several times and you're expected to stand your ground and keep saying no.
Although we've also got several ways to give a vague answer instead of no (tomorrow is code for "I'm just gonna keep kicking it down the curb for as long as possible", if God wills means "maybe I'll do it, probably not" and good will happen means "yeah, I'm not doing that").
That's so true! I had no idea about taarof when I traveled to the middle east for the first time, but I wish I did as it would have saved me a lot of embarrassment 😆 People will keep offering you things, and the nicest thing you can do is give them a smile, a quick courteous chat, and a polite 'thank you really, but I'm good!'
That's very interesting! But it's also not unheard of in Japan, for example. It happens less frequently perhaps, but for example a while ago I had some handymen in my home to do some work, and felt obliged to offer them something to drink. They declined (probably out of politeness). It wouldn't have thrown me off if they did accept, but I kind of anticipated the response.
I’m Romanian and here in East-Southeast Europe we sort of have a mix of the two: as a host it is expected to politely offer others to come over and insistently offer them food drinks sweets etc. while the other party is expected to politely refuse over and over (nothing wrong if they say yes);
At the same time, when someone does ask a question/make a request you do not agree with/cannot satisfy, you will politely refuse by dodging (Oh, that’s so sweet of you/I so wish I could have come, but I really don’t have a way to make it) or by being really softening on the „no” (Being very sincere with you, I don’t really think I totally agree with you on this).
As a native, being impolite by not respecting these unwritten rules is seen as a sign of very poor upbringing. Foreigners are exempted from these polite speech intricacies.
This hits home lol, the number of times I've said "god willing" and really meant "there's no way I'm doing that" lmao
If they keep asking and still expect you to stand your ground then they're in for a surprise
At first I thought this is absurd.... then I realized just how often I didn't say "No" when I didn't want to hang out with friends, instead making up various excuses.
Avoiding confrontation is a huge problem in Asian culture
I'm American. I basically never turn down a friend without a reason in the first place. We're all too busy to turn down time to hang out for dumb reasons. Plans can change based on people's situations. "Wanna grab food?" "Gotta watcha the kids." "Oh fair enough. Should I bring a pizza, and we can chill with the kids?"
It’s not just an Asian culture thing. I always think of the joke in Friends where Phoebe declines by saying, ”Oh, I wish I could, but I don’t want to.” A lot of sales tactics depend on it, too.
The difference is, perhaps, that Asian culture allows for saying yes when meaning no.
@@billcox6791 it's 100% a asian culture thing. It's well known
@@dsdgdsfegfeg they said it's not *just* an Asian thing, not that it isn't an Asian thing. It is a thing in Asia in particular, because being indirect is integrated into the cultures there, but it pops up in other places/cultures too
I'm an autistic asian woman. it's always hard with my older (60+) mother. It's not her age but her generation. Even when she was younger it was hard interacting with her sometimes. I just could never understand why she couldn't just say it.
This is so relatable
That must be awful
Rip
I might be a bit on the autistic, dunno. All I believe is that people SHOULD be direct to each other and not fear retaliation. People that retaliate should stop and think over WHAT they are arguing for. It is not healthy for any relationships to keep hiding under "veiled conversations". One day, it WILL rupture, more violently than before.
Really sounds to me that this whole part of this culture is the autistic one.
But then, I'm probably on the spectrum too.
I‘m a german and was like ”Gee, I would never survive in an east-asian culture“, then you showed the list of high-/low-context countries and I just had to laugh.
When a german says that they are tired, and they wish to go home, what do they really mean?
- That they are tired, and that they wish to go home.
I wonder if this is because the what we call now Germany is surrounded by so many other cultures. If you go back more than a hundred years it becomes difficult to even define what is part of Germany and what not. We had to be direct to ensure we are understood.
Meanwhile Japan was more isolated and as such there was a lot more context they shared allowing them to focus their attention on more than just being understood.
@@TooSickToDressVictorian Its just the right way to speak. When someone is "polite" I feel like they are fake. (Czech)
i wonder about doing these studies again based on how isolated or diverse (multicultural) a country is. @@devluz
So the idea of face is sparing their feelings but by being so damn dismissing and refusal to answer a simple binary question. I honestly feel like that's way more rude than simply, concisely saying no. So you can then be clear in each other's intent or suggest alternatives. If going through a list of suggestions is going to be a song and dance. It's honestly such a test of patience which I personally don't have.
I am South Asian, and I have always been told growing up that I must always agree with anything elders say and never speak against them, even if they are wrong. "No" is like a taboo word in many parts of Asia. We are raised to be averse to using that word.
Utter hilarity.
Malaysian here - heard of an anecdotal story ... allegedly involving a Western manager and his female Malay subordinate. The sub would keep answering everything in the affirmative, even when it was NOT. Needless to say he found it frustrating.
Nah youre a different case. My south east asian friends have all told me they would say no unapologetically, theres no culture in south east asia that hinders you from saying no. South east asians are much more straight forward, and as such often much more open as people when interacting, Ive honestly found south east asians much kinder and warmer to interact with than the east asians.
@@musicplaylist6909 then your friends might be part of the newer generation that dont really care about etiquette... i'm a chinese malaysian that been brought up with the idea that it's rude to talk back to your elder as they are someone who have more life experience than you.
i dont know where are you from or your "south east asian" friends is from, but at least here in malaysia, people care about etiquette and politeness.
I'm studying under a Japanese supervisor, my latest conversation with him encapsulates this mismatch pretty well.
Me: Good morning sir, here are the results. I know they're slightly wrong, but I believe they could still be used.
Him: Good morning. The values are too high, can you make them lower?
M: I have spent three weeks on this experiment, and these are the lowest values I received.
H: Thank you, but can you make them lower?
M: As I previously mentioned, these are the lowest values I've managed to receive.
H: I understand, but can you make them lower?
M: No sir, I can not.
Only after a direct "no" did he want to see my simulation himself. ^^'
@@musicplaylist6909 I guess it's different in Southeast Asia. I am from South Asia, and the concept of saying no is very much not in practice.
What I've observed as an Asian Mexican: in general interactions, we often state that we value frankness/low context communication and associate high context behavior with insincerity. In practice, the exact opposite happens.
this is so fucking real
Western culture values directness so long as it conforms to socially acceptable conventions, such as political correctness today. No national-scale culture anywhere yet has actually desired frank, low context communication. Most people are moderately disingenuous.
Could you elaborate? Just curious
@@kiwizoey413 I'm Filipino.
@@nevisysbryd7450
Someone hasn't been to the Netherlands
i work with Japanese staff. And one thing I learned it that you have to make sure to directly ask if they understood your explanation. Since often they will just nod along or say "a" or "oh".
a, oh, or nod just mean that I heard what you had said so that you can continue your talk. It doesn’t mean I agree with what you have said.
@@julioduan7130agreeing and understanding are two different things
@@gatortot6753listening and understanding and agreeing are all different
edging and listening and agreeing and understanding are four different things.
The irony is that being dishonest to someone, being indirect and unclear, is far more harmful than "losing face". That, and if you don't set firm boundaries, you're bound to be taken advantage of.
It happens in California as well. "we will contact you later!" absolute classic line.
The most annoying thing to hear as well lol
rest in peace neurodivergent people in east asia 😭😭
I recon at a certain point, indirectness becomes so obvious that neurodivergents have an easier time at learning. If 5% of the conversation is to be read between the lines, it can be kinda fuzzy. If 50% of communication is indirect, you learn it as a clear and normal part of speech.
@@humanperson8418 You recon wrong
@@humanperson8418you're wrong, and you basically threw a "who came first the chicken or the egg" type situation in my hands and the best I can do is "I'll just presume all you say is a lie"
@@humanperson8418 The indirect part is the issue. If that is not made clear by saying it literally and directly, it goes over neurodivergent people's heads. I know it will go over mine.
@@aneitalt would it also if you grew up learning it? I genuinely can't comment since I'm from a relatively explicit culture
I'm Chinese and grew up in Canada, so I likely have a Western mindset but I've always found that direct communication is the ultimate form of sincerity and being genuine. Reading between the lines is a good skill to have, it sucks to tell people things they don't want to hear, but messages can never get distorted if you state it directly compared to indirectly. There's a reason why East Asians reserve direct communication for those closer to us, it's not only trust, but we need to ensure that there's no miscommunication (e.g. Asian parents always say that they're hard on their children because they need their children to know what they really believe is best for them, while other children that do not belong to them, they could care less).
Same here, Chinese ethnicity but raised in Canada. I have noticed that I tend to be more blunt about things than Chinese-Chinese, which sometimes annoys me when I'm interacting with them. Like, if you offer something, I will take it, too bad how sad. On the other hand, unless it's something really egregious, I won't get mad if you don't offer something to me, and if you say yes but actually mean no, please just say no, I don't have time to waste trying to figure out what you mean, my god.
On the other hand, I work in a non-Chinese workplace, and I have been told a few times by my Canadian boss that I have a weird roundabout way of saying/requesting things, like I'm afraid of saying things directly. Which, yeah, it's a mixture of Chinese "face" etiquette and my general personality of not wanting to step on people's toes.
If only I were better at adapting to cultures better haha. I'm stuck in the middle with the worst of both worlds.
Not that unique lol. Many western Asians think of themselves as soooo unique and so assimilated to white people its boring
It leads to less issues in the long way. I feel like asians are sacrificing long term understanding to short term disagreement. 😅
I am asian, not 🇨🇳🇯🇵🇰🇷 though but when in China I am always a bit surprised (generally in a positive way) by how frank and straightforward the Chinese folk seem to be. Probably depends on a region as China is obviously enormous. I have mainly been to south/northwestern parts
I approve and I wish my parents were more direct with me. Being "coddled" is terrible because you end up in a sheltered attitude.
The issue is determining the line. People should know you can't be over-the-top either way. Balance with reasoning must take place.
as an asian girl growing up in the west i’ve unfortunately seen a common pattern that came from both sides: forcing girls from a young age to always say yes despite feeling uncomfortable. this doesn’t apply to everyone ofc but a lot of times girls will be hated on, harassed and more for DARING to refuse. it’s tough out here
I agree, and that’s precisely why this whole thing of “you can’t say no” rubs me the wrong way… especially for girls and women, we should be allowed to say no to things that makes us uncomfortable without being hated for it. Had my eldest sister call me an individualist once just for the HENIOUS act of…! Saying no and wanting to stay in peace. 😢
omg…that’s probably why im always saying "yes" …
Not here in the Philippines. Have female friends. My mom and sisters and female cousins all say no blatantly when annoyed.
Usually when someone keeps asking them out (boy or girl). Of course it starts with an excuse to be polite and then they hit them with the hard no.
As a guy, my go to is just saying 'meh' with an annoyed expression. Gets the point across.
I've heard this is apparently a thing in the Midwest.
That is such a miserable lie. As if we don't know the state of Western women. Also, men are forced to join the military, or else they become criminals and are shamed and labelled cowards and traitors. Stop lying.
Can you imagine telling some crazy western woman that she must agree to anything she's told? 😂😂😂 it's an offense to look at women in the underground in some parts of the west, but somehow, you want to tell me that women girls are just forced to say yes to anything 😂😂😂
What is this comment section of ghouls? Do you not look beyond having to maybe do laundry because your mom told you to? Is that too much oppression for you? 😂
The struggle of learning Japanese while being neurodivergent and from a country on the low context extreme of the spectrum....I feel like at this point my main issue isn't even grammar or vocabulary anymore but rather grasping the cultural nuances 😭 Thank you so much for this video, it was really interesting!
maybe watch a lot of anime will help.
@@hikashia.halfiah3582i don't think watching anime is going to help understand what people mean when they say words they don't actually think. coming from someone who didn't learn any of that from watching english speaking media
me too… in german, you’re usually very straightforward and blunt. to be polite, you’re just more formal, and a little more distant. but unlike in japanese, there’s no level of politeness. you’re just expected to give a base level of politeness to everybody, and that’s pretty much it.
Having to individually assess appropriate politeness for every single conversation with a stranger seems… stressful.
i much prefer politeness when it’s just this basic “here’s a token acknowledgement that we’re adults in a formal context. we’re strangers, we respect each other, moving on”. so much more convenient.
@@atlas956 I understand where you are coming from, but I know how german politeness levels work and I can tell you I basically prefer japanese politeness levels because they are more fluid. You can switch between more or less polite speech when talking to the same person, but depending on the subject. You can keep calling someone by their last name and "san" even if you're fairly friendly and otherwise don't use formal language.
In german, you can only adress someone informally (du) or formally (sie) and often it's hard to tell which would be appropriate, while in japanese you can still be polite but not too formal, so you don't sound too distant.
@@plasticflower As a german the only stressful thing literally is the du-sie-situation
Otherwise you just say what you want to say regardless of who you talk to. It could be your mom, a stranger or the chancellor, doesn't matter.
Furthermore addressing friends by their last names must feel awefully distant, I'd imagine.
My boss:" Hey, can you work on saturday?"
Me: "No, I don't want to."
My boss:" Understandable. While you are not flexible, I appreciate your steadiness."
Me:" Thank you. You are a mediocre but likable boss."
When she described low-context cultures my first thought was: “Germans. You described Germans.” Glad to see I’m not the only one.
Fin ich tatsächlich nicht. Fi de die Einteilung am unteren Ende der High Context Kulturen sinnvoll.
Klar man ist hier direkt.
Oft geht man davon aus, dass der gegenüber in einer Konversation Gedanken lesen kann.
Vieles wird in einer Konversation als gegeben angenommen. Was aber nicht immer der Fall ist, wodurch Missverständnisse entstehen.
The funny thing is, people do a lot of these very often in, at least, America. I just don’t think they do it as intently or it isn’t as socially enforced to do so. We certainly do have a bit more directness of intentions, but even then it still is frequently seen as rude and it’s better to let down people evasively or softly.
One of those moments where I think other cultures aren’t *as* different as we think.
i feel like this channel tries to make east asians an "other" which frankly I think is detrimental to the mental health of east asians living in western societies.
Yeah, we even have similar things where, say, you don’t start with a direct request, but instead with some pleasantries as if the request were a side note and you just wanted to get in touch. I thought the example of, “Let’s hang out sometime,” was interesting because we also probably won’t meet and it means something more like, “I enjoyed talking with you,” whether I actually enjoyed it or not is another matter.
Here in South America we don't do this at all! To a fault! We'll tell you to eat shit right away!
Yeah, I'm. German and, upon reflection, I do a lot of those things too. It's definitely something that's only appropriate in a workplace setting or with (near) strangers though.
When my colleagues go out for a drink and I don't want to come with them, I will almost always go for the "yes, but" response to politely decline their invitation. But with my friends I can just say "nah, don't feel like it" without worrying that I might hurt their feelings.
I think it is really depending on what is socially acceptable, for example it is more socially acceptable to be direct in US but certainly there are still unspoken rules that you have to follow. As an Asian I find it a lot more comfortable to be indirect sometimes, but I think the nature is the same, it is the use of certain "transaction" to bypass actual direct communication.
This was really interesting. Where I'm from, midwest USA, being indirect or lying/misdirecting to get out of answering something is the highest form of rudeness, and it will lose you respect among your peers and those above you (bosses, parents, etc). We consider it to be polite to either just say 'no' or give the actual reason instead of giving a fake excuse. Respect is gained by being direct and honest and lost when it is found out one was misdirecting just to 'make the other person feel better'.
edit: Mom always said "Say what you mean and mean what you say. I don't like lies."
another edit, just cause I thought a bit more on it: Around here, if your friend or friend group invite you to (insert activity), and you do not want to, responding with (insert misdirection), if they discover said misdirection you will be less likely to get future invitations. If you merely say 'no, I don't want to do that now' the friend or group will more often still invite you to other stuff than if you always make stuff up to get out of doing things.
See if you directly say no in Asia, they would think you really do not wanna hang out with them, so they will be too afraid to ask you again, because of the unwritten social norms. Also, a lot abt misdirection is that you're not supposed to be caught directly. Like the two of you may mutually get the sense that you actually don't want to go, but so long as you don't show evidence that you're lying, they would let you off the hook bc they know and participate in that culture themself.
My mom (we're Chinese) said she hated liars and yet she would also make up excuses to not answer the phone or whatever. I suppose to her that's not the same as lying that you did x when you didn't do x. And I think that's the case in general, where there is not actually a difference in value in honesty, but that excuses to get out of events is not a show of dishonesty like stealing from someone and saying it was someone else is. Because as far as everyone is concerned, you getting sick and not being able to attend has the same outcome as you not wanting to go -- you are not there and the group will hang out without you. But if you're lying about doing a bad thing, then there is a real consequence of the bad thing being unpunished and that you may continue doing said bad thing.
@@cameronschyuder9034Would people who communicate so indirectly take the same super negative message from a "no" statement even if that statement was qualified by saying "no, but I still would really like to hang out another time"?
I like your culture!
Yeah here in the states it’s far better to be upfront than make up whatever & get caught in a lie as the latter reflects negatively on your character as well as your consideration & value of others.
I also grew up in the Midwest (Great Lakes region), and both my personal experiences and the stereotypes I've always heard have stereotyped us as much more roundabout and passive-aggressive than other parts of the USA. (e.g., "They'll be super nice to you and then badmouth you behind your back.") It kind of threw me for a loop to read this comment stating the opposite. While obviously there are cultural norms differences across regions of the USA and between the USA and other countries, I think generally people both perceive and state these norms to be more generalized than they actually are, when really it might be specific to their town or even their family. I am also guessing that there's a lot of confirmation bias in how these perceptions are formed.
Taking the "lying to get out of events is frowned upon in the US" as an example, it takes about five seconds of searching on social media to find USAmericans making jokes about doing just that to get out of commitments with friends (ie, saying they don't feel well or that they have obligations with family). I don't think that OP is wrong in stating that it's not very socially acceptable, exactly... but it does feel like a thing that people do _despite_ knowing it's is not very healthy from a communication standpoint, and they do anyways because it's easier to make a white lie than to tell someone you don't want to see them.
My first five years in Japan I tried very hard to adapt, but I realized no one really wants to be that way and they tend to appreciate foreigners more for acting like “typical foreigners” (super direct and stupidly positive and pushy) which I also am not, so now I’m just very gentle and polite about awkwardly breaking all the social rules, and most people seem to appreciate it as long as I am a bit self-depreciating and smile a lot.
Can you watch anime without subtitles? And actually understand what their saying?
@@youtubestudiosucks978 depends on the anime 🦭
Exactly this. Its like they have an expectation of how foreigners should be and if we don’t do that and actually comply to their customs, we’re almost looked down on? Maybe it’s just the way they interact with me though.
That's the gaijin pass I'm talking about. As a foreigner, you are expected to not follow certain nuances, and I like it that way. Just don't expect the native people to treat you as one of their kind. I have a friend who lives in Japan he told me an interesting story: one day he went to a friend’s house and chatted a bit. And then his friend said “Hey I would like to interest you with a cup of tea” Being a good foreigner who mastered the art of reading the room, my friend immediately caught the club and understood that it was the Kyoto people‘s way of saying “you are overstaying your visit “ as in “please have your last cup of tea and leave me alone “. So my friend began packing. And then his friend stopped him “No, please stay! You are not from Kyoto and I'll never talk to you like that (in an indirect and misunderstanding way). I really want you to try this nice cup of tea.” and they both laugh.
@@youre_totally_right_but_ I wouldn’t say looked down on, but rather treated like an alien. But because people tend to keep so much distance and have really high standards towards each other, I eventually gave up trying to be treated as the same and realized I’d be happier and make people happier if I could be a refuge from their social pressure
I feel sometimes that the more complicated the system is for softening face threatening acts, the more such acts you tend to commit. If you can hide meanness and being hurtful behind politeness and softening then its so much easier to be mean and hurtful.
This is the dark side of high context cultures in Asia. It is a lot easier to tell someone horrible things if you can soften it rather than if you have to say it directly
Right like how does this affect empathy? Not to say they’re all not empathetic I just mean it’s interesting to think about how this might affect empathy
I remember when taking Japanese classes in Uni, they taught that especially when receiving an invitation to go do something with say a friend or coworker and you want to decline, you shouldn’t be upfront and say “sorry, I can’t go”, as you risk offending the other person, so to sound “nicer” you respond in a sort of roundabout way like 「それはちょっと」 (like “oh, about that” or “that’s kind of…”) and end it off. Oh also you don’t tend to bluntly state things you dislike such as food like when you are doing a homestay and they ask if you like certain foods, so you either say 「○○が苦手だ」 (I’m not too good with ___) or 「〇〇がちょっと」 (____ is kind of…) instead of using the word dislike (嫌い).
Damn, they won't like me. I don't wear masks for anyone.
@@bigfoot9049 Yeah at least Japanese culture is like that where people tend to not outwardly express how they feel unless you’re super close with them (honne vs tatemae) and so you have to be an expert at reading the room (they call it “the air” or “atmosphere 「空気を読む」). And they do this to again, not offend other people.
Actually a good example of this is when you speak Japanese as a foreigner in Japan, you’ll often be told 「日本語上手」 (Your Japanese is good). And it’s kind of a running joke in the Japanese learning community to where if you’re told that, your Japanese is really not that good, but the Japanese say it just to be nice to you/encourage you.
As a native Chinese speaker, what I don’t like is not the language itself, but the culture behind this language
can you expand it a bit so we foreigners learn ur perspective?
@@Yusuf-ok5rkYou're commenting this on a 19-minute video that explains what you're looking for
@@Janimator-OKNo no, we would like to hear *this* commenter’s perspective.
That culture make for very interesting material for fictional works though. I like the drama of hierarchy in manhua and josei royal court manhwa.
@@Yusuf-ok5rk as a native Chinese speaker, "the culture" mentioned by this commenter is able to be interpreted as "this kind of culture" in the Chinese language, and based on the video and comments' contexts, "this kind of culture" could be interpreted as "the high-context culture" instead of the whole culture behind the Chinese language. So when I read this comment, what I directly got is that the commenter is expressing being tired of communicating with people indirectly. In my experiences, there are not only always lots of misunderstandings but also some awkward situations where some people who do not like you just deliberately ignore your indirect refusal pretending that they don't get it and do things that you really and literally hate to make you feel bad and you are not able to complain it as you "agreed" what they would do. BTW in China Gongdou dramas are extremely popular (like Zhen Huan Zhuan) in which the high context culture is everywhere.
I worked at the Naval Ship Repair Facility in Yokosuka Japan for three years. My work environment was almost exactly 50% U.S. and 50% Japanese. One of the biggest growing pains was learning when yes actually meant yes, when yes meant no, and when no meant yes. It's really hard for people from Western cultures to wrap their heads around initially.
That sounds like a fire job. How’d you get it? Especially for a civilian
I'm an American living and working in China, and this is extremely true, with both casual interactions and closer relationships. For example, I have had so many coworkers who are afraid to tell me that something bad has happened or has changed. So much so that in (albeit extreme) cases they simply do not inform us of a problem like a schedule change or a coworker leaving the company, and we are left to find out this news until the last possible minute, some times literally. I recognize these instances as often times coming from cultural differences/friction, but it can be quite frustrating at times when the supposed 'face saving' action leads to further issues that I would argue lead to further loss of face, though more indirectly (which may be the point).
Ah yes, covering up a problem instead of fixing it, thus leading to even bigger problems later on. Classic.
That is not the same as not saying no. I worked in China for years and people were quite blunt (unless it was about politics or security, in which case they would get very avoidant and embarrassed). Maybe your work environment is like that. Do you speak mandarin?
Face saving exists literally everywhere.
@@turnipsociety706 did you watch the video? The point is that saving face is much more prioritized in East Asia, not that it's a unique thing (hence the existence of the phrase 'saving face' in English). And I agree that Chinese can be blunt in some scenarios, such as when giving commands or presenting things. My situation was more about asking, for instance, "hey can I schedule X important activity on this day?" and the response is often some variation of 'probably' or 'yes'. But suddenly a higher up sends out a notification the day before saying they expect all of us to attend something that some of my other colleagues had been informed of earlier. It seemed the middle management just preferred to be vague and let me find out last minute rather than just say "hey sorry scheduling that won't work on that day" (which is preferable to having to scramble last minute to accommodate)
what do you do for work?
I think the UK can be insanely high context or absolutely zero context just depending on who you’re talking to
I think England's posistion on that little list to be honest does feel about right. I think it also explains why we think French people are rude and Germans are extremely blunt. That being said however we may be hight context by the standards of the west but clearly East Asia is another story.
I feel like in England is where being blunt can be interpreted as a form of dry humor.
The low context nature of it paradoxially meant to be high context in the idea that it's low context in a high context environment, or the 2nd party's perceived denial of the 1st party of being high context when acting low context to gaslight the 2nd party into thinking they are thinking too much, which in itself becomes the context of the humor in the mind of the 2nd party.
@@ricenoodles632 I went on a little binge researching this topic after I watched this 2 weeks ago, it did suggest that one of our strategies for saving face and diffusing awkwardness in the UK is humour. I'm sure that's at least somewhat true everywhere but we are known for our humour internationally and this could be a plausible explanation for where that reputation comes from.
As a saudi girl im happy arab countries are mentioned because yes we are a high context culture
Like i remember my mom telling me that if somebody decided to invite me to a wedding or some occasion just the day before than 99% they dont want me to come but have to invite anyways because its an ettiquete and the contradiction here is that proper way to react is by declining that invitation even if you wanted to go.
only if it came early ahead then its ok to come because then they actually want to see you
this specific act of inviting someone just before the occasion is called in southern provience dialect “تِعِذَّار" which can be translated to “making excuse” because you’re making excuse for someone’s absence by saying “i invited them but they couldn’t make it” but again you invited them too late
Maybe its not a common thing in all arab countries or saudi proviences but theses contradictions are countless
We as arab also have the same “yes=no” issue to a certain extent, saing stuff like “i wish i could but i wont make it” and “apologies, i made some plans ahead and come” also saying “إن شاء الله" literally meaning if god will but depending on the tone said in it could be yes or no
Knowing this i was always wondering how autistic people in our culture are surviving but my mom told me they don’t (because my mom’s uncle is autistic and he never show his face outside his house and everyone making rumors about him being possessed)
So is Inshallah sometimes meant as an Earthly way to smooth conversations, but in other times it's meant as a sincere, humble acknowledgement of God's power? So sometimes it means "maybe but I don't want to promise anything" and other times it means "yes, but of course God may have other plans for me"?
If so, what an interesting little phrase.
@@chrisharris331 That phrase, while being something very solemn in a vacuum, basically became cursed to me. The way people use it makes me instantly think "Oh s/he will never do it. Forget it." I remember an Italian working in UAE complaining, ranting, and seething every time he heard that phrase.
Poor uncle 😢
german here:
Beating about the bush can be seen as an indication of lack of trust or anticipation of an inability to deal with criticism here. The more you trust someone, the less you filter yourself when speaking to them. Questions arise like:
- "Is she/he afraid of my reaction to being told 'no'?" -> I want to reassure that she/he can trust me to be accepting of her/him including her/his preferences.
- "Does she/he think i can't handle being told 'no'? -> OK, so we are not very close. (if incorrect) / OK, i'm in a safe place with her/him. (if correct)
While not thinking in the category of 'face', these 'yes = no' phenomena are still relevant here as we still don't want others to experience the hurtful feeling of rejection. These tactics are therefor used based on your evaluation of the character of the person (self-confidence) you're saying 'no' to as well as the potential of the 'no' to be hurtful. The urge to use these ways of nonexplicit rejection might be weaker, but it's still happening. With openly saying 'no' being a valued ability, being told 'no' loses its weight as well. With being told 'no' not being a rare occasion, it doesn't really attack you as a person and primarily promts questions about the preferences of the person saying 'no', secondarily about the qualities of the recipient of the 'no'.
Then, individualism strikes again. There is no universal german culture when it comes to high - context or low - context communication, but individuals and social circles differ. My university friendgroup has both ends of the spectrum in it - and things work. Friends learn each others prefered communication style and put different emphasis on the spoken and different levels of attention to implicit and non - verbal communication. This does not mean that there isn't any friction. As a high - context communicator, you can be seen as 'being complicated', while as a low - context communicator, you can be seen as rude/inconsiderate.
When i heared about the difficulity to say 'no' especially to your boss, who is in a position of power, my alarm bells for danger of abuse rang instinctively.
I just call it what it is: lying. That's why we have so many comedys and dramadys that play on all the ways this goes wrong, because the consequences of lying are usually more uncomfortable than the truth; Sometimes its okay to lie, like survival or safety. I would argue that these types of lies are actually more harmful than just honestly expressing disintetest in a non-harmful manner.
This may be similar to what I frequently needed to sit down and talk with new staffs at work - "you need to learn to say no". They often said yes to what they wouldn't be able to fulfill (e.g. being asked by a superior), took responsibility beyond what they were supposted to (e.g. being asked by a colleage), or agreed to something absurd :D
This is a major problem with imported labor. If you ask an Indian programmer to fix something or ask an Indian electrician to install something a certain way, they will say yes then completely ignore the instruction. It seems cultural because almost all of the immigrant ones act this way, so it creates a reputation of them being scammers and liars.
I went to japan for a year in 2019 and i didn’t really know this at the beginning. I knew that language wise they never really say no, but instead something like „well it‘s a little …. [inconvenient]“ (the brackets being implied, not said out loud like ちょっと…) but i didn’t know that they do much more than just switch the word. I asked some people if they wanted to meet again, and ALL of them were like „omg yes!!! I am basically already in love with u! I wanna be ur friend forever! Let‘s do this!!!!🤩“ and then just never show up😂 i felt so rejected at first and as a german, where being direct is actually polite (to not waste energy and time) i felt it was super rude. Like i came at a certain place at a certain time but they just didn’t show up after saying yes hahah. Saying no would have been nicer. At least that‘s how i felt bc i didn’t understand the culture. I stopped asking people and it was kinda difficult to find japanese friends. But that just made me wanna be fluent in japanese and spend more time in japan to REALLY understand the culture beyong a tourist level understanding :)
Well, I'm Japanese, but even from a Japanese perspective, not showing up after making an appointment to meet is rude and unusual. You should cut ties with people like that, and understand that not all Japanese people are like them.
ちょっと is actually rarely used in that way since people often feel is too straightforward
I feel that so much. Being let down like this is so much worse than just a straight "no"
Wait, they agreed to meet you at a specific time and place, and then didn't show up?
@@ARKSAAXX-ys9gz yeah i didn‘t mean to generalize, it wasn’t super specific, more like we were in shibuya and we said to meet tomorrow here again, so i would go anyways but they didn’t show up. I did make some actual „appointments“ like once we went to a museum that was 1h away from shinjuku and he showed up, if he didn’t i would def not classify as „cultural differences“ but just bad behavior. I mean in general, everyone was sooo nice to me and made me feel like the did really like me and wanted to meet again, but almost nobody actually ever wanted to be friends and they were probably just polite and i misunderstood. Because being polite in germany means to be very honest, it‘s more polite to be a lil mean and honest than to pretend that you like someone so that one interaction is smoother. But i understand the value of keeping this social harmony, even if I PERSONALLY find it a lil superficial sometimes
Many years ago i was a US Navyman in Japan. One thing that stuck with me from arriving there was the cultural orientation brief. A lot of info about how to not offend the locals, how to behave, how to use public transit, essential things like that. The one example that really stuck with me, and sounds very much like the high/low context culture subject you talk about was a visual demonstration. The instructor told a story about getting his car fixed at a mechanic, and how the mechanic was very vague about what the problem was, ending by saying that the mechanic wouldn't outright tell him what was wrong, and wanted the instructor to pick a course of action. Perhaps for fear of being wrong, or politeness or not wanting to have to tell the instructor what to do. The instructor drew out two points on a white board and then drew a winding spiral from one dot to the other, looping around and around and said to the effect of 'this is what a conversation in Japan is like'. He then said he went to America, and needed car work there too, went to garage and the mechanic there immediately told him what was wrong with the car and how much it would cost to fix. The instructor erased the white board and redrew the two dots and connected them with a straight line, 'this is what a conversation in America is like'. So I think Mr. Hall is on to something. I wouldn't even know how to quantify or measure high vs low context cultures. I would agree that America is a low context culture, as the many of the listed ways of saying no by saying yes would come across to me as evasive or disingenuous. Being told no isn't an affront. If I am asking the question, then in most cases I am imposing the imposition on someone else. I am the one burdening the other, they have every right to say no and say it directly to my face.
The strange side of all this to me is that if this elaborate cultural context yes=no situation is known to everyone, and an established and wide spread phenomenon then isn't it self defeating? If going through some elaborate steps to say no by saying yes is common knowledge, as it would have to be otherwise it would be ineffective and lost on the recipient and this lost meaning would be interpreted as a genuine yes, then doesn't everyone understand that yes=no and thus the message received by the audience is 'No'? The whole point seems to be to say no in a way that is mistaken for a yes, but if everyone is in on the context that yes=no, then the audience is still receiving a no message and thus nothing is avoided? And if the audience doesn't know that yes=no then they assume the answer they heard was a genuine yes. Wouldn't that lead to misunderstandings or frustrations? Or am I missing the whole point that yes=no is solely performative, and even if the message is understood as a No all the performative evasion and double speak is in itself the point? A sort of 'I am saying no to you, but due to east Asian cultural reasons I am going to say many vague words about my frog, my situation, or whatever it takes to make an abstract excuse' and going through that performative effort becomes the apology for the No.
I don't know, it seems like a real problem. Why would anyone ever believe anyone else if yes=no and everyone is too polite or scared to say no? It sounds like a situation where every question, every request would be answered the same way no matter the true intention of the person answering. At that point, why bother asking? You know you'll get a 'yes' as an answer, but you know you can't trust that yes to actually mean yes so the answer to your question provides you with no trustworthy information.
As a person with autism, I do not respect high context cultures. No human is a mind reader, the expectation that others have to divine the bones of the interaction to determined that you meant the opposite of what you claimed is always a negative. I do not care about your face, your aura, or whatever. I will say what I mean to make sure there is no confusion and I will hold you to what you say as well.
This is one way why other animals are so cool. Relationships with them are really simple, obvious, and predictable. If you go to a dog making sounds and body language it likes, it's eager to have a good time. With people there's this potentially ridiculously complicated wasteland you have to cross.
Right? I'm happy that there's a video explaining this, but I think it's ridiculous.
As an autist, I struggled with this as a child, but I eventually grew to accept it out of necessity, but it also helped by seeing it as a form of puzzle.
I don't have autism but I'm always one for low context. My problem is that I always have the tendency to interpret everything someone says as sarcasm or passive aggressiveness
I'm similar as an autistic girlie with immigrant parents stuck in the US. you can try to read into context clues, but it's grasping a language you've never rly been included in, and will never fully master. i've learned to follow the energy of a person and stick to my intuition.
been also fed up with some americans being like "oh you tend to come off rude" or "you sound like you're talking down..." when it was really them being a jerk and exgergatting my tone. you can never please everyone, regardless of adapting to social cues that don't always make sense
I was told that
- in the west, the natural state of things is chaos. Laws and norms are there to protect the individual.
- in asian culture, the natural state of things is harmony. The human tends to disrupts this, so laws and norms are in place to protect the general state of harmony.
Interesting, would it also be accurate to phrase it as "society existing to serve the needs of people" versus "people existing to serve the needs of society?"
Nah in east asia the natural order is chaos as well. Harmony is just the face people put on.
The Western view is the correct one. Unless you define "harmony" the same way Victorian England pre-Darwin saw nature as "harmonious" because it was all God-ordained, ie. the fox kills the rabbit for a good reason.
@@devondorr8212Yep. In Aaia it's the image (the "face") that's most important, so everything ends up becoming a façade
Yes, exactly! I’m from Poland, where yes means yes and no means no. People are not afraid to say it. I have such a hard time with this concept in Vietnam. Cultural differences are literally harder to grasp than the language itself.
True, and intentionally ignoring the question, tangential responses, or delaying answers (without actually answering) is perceived as rude here.
A hard clash..
Awhile back I watched Moon Channel's "Gacha gaming and the Korean gender war" and when he got to the story of Korean Air flight 801 it all seemed genuinely alien to me. Hearing you say a majority of east Asian people will have anxiety when saying no to someone is wild.
it was also a very particular situation. It was at work, where hierarchies are very important. Korean are kinda extreme even among asians on how much importance they put on seniority. And it was a junior captain talking to a senior captain, think army hierarchy, even in western militaries it is not easy to say no to your superiors in a straight forward way.
Didn't they also had to speak english which means subtlety get lost in translation ?
@@floflo1645 They were not speaking English. In fact, the incident resulted in all cockpit communication being required to be in English as a function of removing subtlety. Be direct in life and death scenarios.
I was in the US military. I was very direct and said no to direct superiors frequently enough that I can't recall every time it happened.
And yeah, Moon Channel makes it very clear Korea goes above and beyond what is reasonable with indirect speak. Even for east Asia.
@@Scuzoid_Melee I misremembered it about the speaking english bit, thanks for the precision.
Which moon channel are you referring too? The gacha one or the “centrist” one?
@@LauraVanessaEscobarSalazar The gacha one I suppose. He doesn't promote gacha games, he just does video essays that center around video games, anime, and east Asia. His channel is called Moon Channel. Not sure if that helps.
Over the last few years, I have been working on learning Gaelic to better connect with my ancestral roots. One thing I learned early on was that in that language, there is no word for “yes” or “no.” It kind of boggled my mind since I often find that at least in the culture I grew up in, those words are amongst the first young children might learn. Such fascinating things language is. Thank you for this video!
So, is there a concept like "yes/no question" then?
@@hansalanson3497 from an English perspective, Gaelic questions could be answered with yes/no, but within that language, the appropriate response would essentially be to reframe the question with an affirmative or a decline.
@@dmcginnis1000
"Do you carry a sickle with you?"
"I do not carry a sickle with me."
Something like this?
@@hansalanson3497 Exactly. That being said, Irish folklore…like many others, are known for clever tricksters. To the question you presented, even a sincere answer doesn’t mean you are safe…it just means the person doesn’t have a sickle. Knowing how to ask the right question is more important than the answers you might receive…again language x culture is so fascinating.
It took me way too long to realize that Canadians, especially in Vancouver and Toronto, are basically the same. "We should hang out sometime" is the biggest example of this (s w e t)
Great discussion. And this is taken further: It's often impolite to ask a yes/no question because it puts the other person in the uncomfortable position of possibly having to come up with a polite rejection. There are some amazingly artful strategies for asking such questions indirectly. It's simply astounding to watch conversations between skillfully polite East Asians: the questions and answers are indirect but both people understand each other perfectly, and moreover feel gratitude for each other for being sensitive to even the slightest cause for anxiety. Perhaps you can do a follow up video on that!
I am obsessed with your videos! I have never clicked so fast on a YT notification as I did on this one. The way you deliver your information is very engaging, and I feel like I learn so much in such a brief amount of time. 🥰
🥹🥹 thank you for watching!! 💓
2:48 Hierarchy.
5:40 Power distance. "They would be quite conscious of behaving according to where they are in the hierarchy"
Honest and direct person: I'm sorry, I was taught to embrace equality and freedom. I do not acknowledge your hierarchical system.
Unless you are in a position to give me orders. That position is limited to my direct boss and in consideration of how much I am paid.
Honesty and directness have a place in hierarchy, but it's a thing most common in Anglo-Saxon culture where direct responses are seen as respectful by showing you're worthy of respect.
This goes back a long ways. Anglo-Saxons back in the Early Middle Ages didn't feel that negotiations were proper unless both sides were armed with weapons.
Despite this they've still had their moments. The Victorian Era cast a long shadow where the British acted very Eastern in their indirectness and the English Understatement is a good example of it in a charming way.
There is a channel run by a Japanese man and his German wife, and they operate it primarily in Japanese. While you can often see them having lighthearted disagreements, the German wife frequently respects her husband's opinions, demonstrating her genuine fondness for Japan. However, there are moments when her German nature subtly comes through, creating a fascinating balance in their conversations.
What's the name?
@@ThisIsYou36 lt blog
Yeah what’s the channel name
Unfortunately, I don't know why, but whenever I write their channel name, it doesn't appear in the comments. Their channel is perfectly appropriate and wholesome
@@gotakazawa408 spell it
The content block warning on your new video is the craziest thing I’ve ever seen TH-cam do, I think.
I have a weird relationship with one friend of mine because she has a high reciprocity expectation but I don't, so when I give her things I expect nothing in return, and when she gives me things she expects reciprocity, but I don't even know how to reciprocate half the time 💀
She doesn't seem too put off by it but I mind that I can't figure out how to pay her back in any normative way, I feel really guilty about it actually!
If there were no negative consequences of saying what you think, people would not need to lie. Saying no to anyone is not disrespectful. What is disrespectful is to not accept when someone says no. Social dynamics actually impair proper development and true potential of many individuals.
"Friends": Dude, help me out. I really need you right now.
Me: No🗿
That must be confusing at weddings.
It's interesting how the Germans are very collectivist and mirror the Japanese in many aspects but at the same time has one of the most no-nonsense straight to the point communication ever.
Nonono we do this in the US too. 4:40 if you’re in the military once you hit the higher NCO ranks or officer ranks you’ll learn about how to help everyone save face to maintain morale. It’s a complicated skill which is why a lot of societies don’t do it and instead emphasize being direct
Something I find really interesting is how much of the misunderstanding stems from the inherent difference between these cultures and modern western cultures. We have no real understood hierarchy at a cultural level and we find it far more rude to be indirect and unclear; thus, by being soft or indirect the result ends up being the exact opposite of what was intended.
I don't think this is as uncommon in the West as it may appear. It's less dominant, but countless women growing up here are taught to be agreeable, even when they don't want to, hence giving rise to the stereotype of women being passive aggressive and actually mean "i'm not fine" when they mean "i'm fine." Men do this too but it's less of a gender expectation (the gender stereotype is actually the opposite, at least when it comes to men in straight relationships) moreso than a self-esteem thing. Or at least that's one of the reasons.
Have you heard of race? That’s a very easy and prominent example of people in the Global North understanding hierarchy. So is gender. So is disability. I could go on. Hierarchy is absolutely everywhere because the various global oppressors (the capitalists, the various governments, oppressive social institutions, etc) like hierarchy. It benefits them. There are no “low hierarchy” societies. That’s what ANARCHISTS like me seek to create. Societies without social hierarchy. Where all this jockeying for position would be gone and everyone would be treated just as fellow Humans
@@cameronschyuder9034I was just thinking of this gender aspect. I went to school in Germany and they literally taught us in German class that expressing things indirectly is "women's language" and that it often leads to misunderstandings between men and women. It really annoys me how this was presented to us as some basic fact without further explanation or historic context.
I come from Finland, which is also apparently considered a rather high-context culture for some reason. While I do understand the thought process behind these sorts of soft rejections, the whole thing just seems to be backwards in my opinion. Finnish communication is even more direct than many other western countries, since the whole point is that no one really wants to talk with anyone else. ("Life is suffering in general, why would you increase someone's suffering by talking with them?" is quite ingrained to our mentality.) In essence giving a direct rejection is seen as a similar "face saving" action, since by doing so you're not "wasting" anyone's time. We're all considered equal so there's no need to consider anyone's hierarchical position anyway, saying what you mean and meaning what you say is seen as YOU saving YOUR face by showing that your words can be trusted, instead of YOU trying to save THE OTHER'S face, if that makes sense. If your words can't be trusted when you say you want to meet up again for something insignificant like a coffee, how could your words be trusted when you say you'll come by to help with a communal task or something else that would actually matter?
My friend's go to "yes but no" is that she is not feeling well. I know she's not "sick" but instead is just not interested in doing something that day. We just pivot then to find a day she is free, lol. Sometimes it's hard to tell people, especially your friends no, it's understandable.
If your friend is not ok with no, then it’s not a true friend IMO.
@educateyourself3872 Yeah, you're just incorrect, I'm sorry. Some people myself included have a hard time saying no to friends. She's one of my closest friends in the world, and she can do whatever is most comfortable for her. Sometimes that's a straight no, and sometimes it's a polite "I don't feel well enough today". Don't talk on people's friendships when you don't know anyone here personally. Thanks.
@@TrekkieBrieyou missed the whole point of the video. You think “yes but no” means “I don’t feel well enough today”. That’s a no with a fake excuse. This video is talking about “yes I will go let’s do it… I have to do some homework though”. Totally different than what you’re saying your friend does. Since I said IMO, I’m not incorrect. It’s my opinion. You would probably be closer friends if you could explain directly because there would be no need to save face. Perhaps your definition of a true friend is looser than mine, but it doesn’t mean I’m incorrect. Just my opinion.
@educateyourself3872 you're wrong and I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, nor the people who you are talking about.
@@TrekkieBrie you don’t need to validate your friendship to me. I’m sure it’s just fine for you. Just hanging out or buying gifts, that’s one level for me but there’s a higher level; I tell my best friends the truth. I am comfortable with their truths and they are comfortable with mine. And I feel better when they do things for me like give up a few of their whole Saturdays to help me do DIY or move and unload furniture all day for no pay. I have friends that will travel with me and buy stuff but they won’t do the former things I mentioned. They are just in the friend category for me, not the best friend. Best friends I can say no to and they can say no to me. There is a level of trust and respect that doesn’t necessitate saving face, similar to that of family.
I was on a first date with a Japanese woman. We were ending the date, about to go our separate ways, and I asked her if I could give her a kiss. She nodded vigorously, smiled, and said, "yes". I leaned in for a kiss, and she recoiled and pulled away. I was confused. I said, "I thought you said yes?". She replied, "I didn't mean it".
Most awkward end to a date in my life.
In germany, often, not always, it's the opposite
Saying "No, I don't feel like it.", would be polite
Saying "No, I'm sorry, I don't feel like it.", is most polite, but creates formal distance.
But in a formal setting you would rather say "No, I'm sorry, not this time." Or "No, I'm sorry, I can't make it that day." (Lie)
"I can't make it that day" is also somewhat popular between friends, but people will likely feel a little hurt if they find out you lied.
"Lying" or just deflecting is generaly inpolite. 'If you can't be honest to somone, then you don't like them', is the sentiment.
Very formal settings are the ones in which you get a lying/deflecting free card, except if the other is visibly trying to establish friendly, pal like relations.
In context "Will you come to my party" "yes, I do have to be there for my partner when they come home though.", would just confuse people. A follow up "During which times can you be there then?", is almost guaranteed.
Not German but yes making up excuses feels like the most disrespectful attitude, especially when it's blatant that the excuse is fake.
Idk, I see a ton of high context communication/rejection in America as well. I'm not sure if it belongs that close to low context.
I think it's just more acceptable to also communicate in a low context fashion, with less repercussions. We tend to chalk it up to different personality types (such as extroversion vs introversion, or assertive communication vs passive communication) or levels of social awareness. It's also highly context dependant, where it's more acceptable to be very direct if a straight answer is necessary or if emotions are heated.
Many people still choose to speak in a high context fashion, whether it's to maintain relationships, ensure continued business, or to protect people's feelings. Maybe it would be more correct to state that high context communication is more of a requirement in Asian cultures, where as it's optional (but still prevalent) in American culture.
Great video though! Definitely an interesting topic to think about! 😄
I come from Germany and yes, that's absolutely right. We mainly look at what is said literally. And we mean it. But a small change in grammar or in the choice of words, sometimes even just one letter, can change the meaning. The advantage of this is that you can express yourself very precisely and present subtleties better because there are simply fewer possible interpretations. And yet, if you look at literature, you can also see authors from all times and places who are able to write extraordinary poetry in German.
This level of “saving face” can also cause people not to develop thicker skin. Hanging out with Japanese is like walking on eggshells, except with those who have been/grew up in a low-context culture. They seem to strike a better balance.
babe wake up aini posted again
It's so odd to me seeing this kind of Gen Z memespeak under a channel like this, which is generally a place for insightful adult discussions about socio-political issues. It's like looking under an NPR article and seeing comments like "shit is fire 🔥🔥🔥" and "goated" and "the bibliography at the end is bussin'".
@@rg_888 You’re saying this as if Aini doesn’t stuff her videos with Gen Z memes like it’s a dumpling
@@rg_888 NPR and TH-cam are different platforms, to be fair. One is much more informal/casual than the other. That said, even if it was NPR, I don't see a problem with those comments. The problematic comments (imo) are those that show excessive aggression and/or show that they clearly didn't read the article or took a completely different meaning than was intended. I would much rather see "shit is goated" than whatever conspiracy theory someone has to insert in the convo
no
@@rg_888 its not that deep lil bro relax
As a French Canadian, i was surprised to see France on the list as high context culture. How so? We're pretty direct and to the point😂
I believe it was supposed to be a ranking, Japan at the top and Germany at the bottom, France was basically on the lower end and England for example was slap bang in the middle.
Woah! I refreshed my page and this appeared! I love this content
Its honestly why so many of my east asian friends are just straight up dishonest for no reason. Saying yes or trying to leave a polite impression on someone in the expense of expressing what you truly feel about them is to me at least, is not a show of respect. It is rather deceitful.
Thank you! I've been thinking this the entire time. If you don't wanna hang out just say so, I'll find something else to do or go alone. I have a feeling I'd be laughing alot if I went to japan.
@@bigfoot9049 they make for good liars at least.
But then if they straight up say no to you, that is considered spitting on your face.
Sometimes, saving face is not for them but for the other person.
😂 I can't believe I can understand the nuance. I was considered uncouth and disrespectful esp. in my teenage years because I was too blunt. It took me a long long while to learn to curb my tongue. This also affects your career. You have to give face to the other person, otherwise you will be severing ties.
@@CL-gc6pe Yeah go ahead living life trying to save face to most people you interact with, purely out of the fact that you think you might need them in the future. You're the exact type of people I was describing. Reptilians also curb their tongue frequently too, there may be correlation 🤔 don't you think?
@@CL-gc6pe It's more of a spit in my face if you lie to me than if you just told me bluntly the truth.
18:41 honestly I got more confused than ever. I don’t think I could survive in this environment. I will be making lots of mistakes.
Interesting. I'm an indigenous person from Canada and much of this is very similar in my community. I just thought it was normal. Cultures in the west are varied too, not everyone here is an individualist american.
Irish culture is very like this. I'd make the argument we are a very high context culture even moreso than the Japanese at times.
@@matthewbarry376Irish culture also has a lot of low context like the Irish goodbye, I feel most cultures have a blend of
Very cleanly explained. Really had me thinking a lot about things that every culture takes for granted, not realizing it isn't the same everywhere else in the world
this is why i never felt fitting in my culture as a neurodivergent asian with a bit of rebellion. i would straight up say no to people and be direct like i don’t give a f. i get very annoyed whenever i see people can’t just make a rejection, to me that’s lack of boundaries
Which is why neurodivergent people have a reputation for being stubborn. It really comes down to disobedience being the go to style of expressing dissatisfaction, which ironically is a behaviour conditioned by neurotypical people. Where more vocal forms of expressing dissatisfaction just comes off as rude to neurotypical people and people tend not to like teaching others how to politely say no to them, the only choice left for neurodivergent people to express dissatisfaction is to just silently disobey and do whatever they were doing anyway.
Same. I hate to say it, but this video makes me hate being Asian, and makes me feel like I'll never belong with other Asian people, and there's no hope in ever making friends with other Asian people. They're just too different from me, and there's nothing I can do to change that.
Here in Brasil we have similar concepts about not saying no, one of the most used one its the expression "Vou ver e te aviso", it means something like I will let you know
"no one is ever going to ask something, expecting to be turned down"
that's not a request, that's an _order_.
the hierarchy is so weak where I live I can interrupt my boss mid sentence to reject them.
About 12 years ago I was on holiday in Phuket, Thailand. I was going to a bar beside the hotel most evenings. There was a pool table and I'd play pool with the bar maids, I'm terrible at pool and the bar maids were all very good players. It became clear to me very quickly that they were all trying to lose to me, the problem was that I'm so bad at pool I was still losing. I knew they were trying to save my face, but to me, a Brit, it was much more embarrassing that they were obviously throwing the game than losing the game. After talking to the bar owner, he explained to them that I was losing face when they didn't play to beat me. After a few games and I didn't have a negative reaction to losing they relaxed and wiped the floor with me. I maybe won 1 in every 4 or 5 games. And bought them a drink every third game they beat me, it was too costly to buy them a drink every time they beat me.
Weirdly, this is quite common in New Zealand. Not in the same way, but we have a cultural aversion to saying no to things directly. Generally if a NZer says "oh yeah I'm not sure" that is about as hard of a 'no' as you'll get. There's also "Yeah nah", "Nah yeah I don't know", "probably not", "maybe", and a bunch of other terminologies that we'll give to say no.
Considering East Asian cultures' historical(and current) exploitation of women and girls, I can't help but think of the horrifying implications of this kind of cultural thing.
High/low context sounds similar to guess/ask culture, except it’s more about the question than the answer. In guess culture, you put the context burden on the asker so that they can get a low context answer. You only ask if you think the answer will be yes, and, if you’re not sure it will be, provide an out for them to comfortably say no.
I guess these differences are mainly a matter of proportion right? Like, here in the west we don't always say how we feel because we might be concerned about the consequences or the effect it will have on someone. We absolutely have 本音 and 建前. For example, if your grandparents call you and ask you to do some chores for them, you might get evasive about responding because you don't want to. But internally you will definitely consider "How does this make me look within the family?", "How does this make me look as a grandchild? "Will people judge me for this?" I guess in East Asian culture, the bubble of "Things I won't say in public" is just much larger and includes far more topics.
Thanks for explaining why a korean girl I worked with could never give a straight answer for anything! I always just thought she didn't like me, which may still be true, but it seems less likely to have been intentional now!
Another Aini banger
I enjoy your well thought and interesting video essays, keep it up
We’re much like this in Brazil. We even have the “We should totally hang out” that never actually follows through. We also come up with a lot of excuses in order to say no in a less direct ar harsh way. Scholars theorized it was because our society was very hierarchical specially back in the time of slavery, so we developed a very cordial code of communication as a sort of defense mechanism.
That makes communication so ineffective. It's the complete opposite to my culture (German), where you bluntly say no to someone else and you dont sugercoat anything. I had some Asian colleagues and it was really tiresome because you never knew if they really meant yes or yes(no).
I discovered this channel only like 3 days ago and it's already become one of my favorites
Well yes, but actually no.
Oh! So the inventor of the spoon and fork asked if anyone wanted to try them and they said something like ‘no’ but actually meant yes. Thus changing history
Thank you for mentioning the confucianism being the underlying reason for these issues. The focus on 礼教 (etiquette?) makes it impossible to challenge your superiors. The social hierarchy overshadows individual identity (君君臣臣父父子子). The whole Confucianism is telling us to perform as were expected to, to always prioritize the etiquette. There’s no individualism and logic in this system.
Reminds of me of some of the cringeworthy interactions I've seen between our French sales and potential Korean clients.
The French guy was directly saying to the clients about the level of debt in their businesses.. Which is just a big faux pa's in East Asia given it implies that business is not creditworthy, made a lot of meetings more awkward than they needed to be. I raised it with him and his response was that in South East Asia where he usually covers (Malaysia/Phillipines/Indonesia/Thailand) they are more direct and wont take similar comments to heart, is that true?
"well, it was nice running into you. we should get lunch some time."
"absolutely. that sounds great."
the way my grandma explained it to me that i shouldnt say no when come to invitation or being asked a favor is because the other person consider you as someone that matter in their life, so by saying no, you are outright rejecting their goodwill and that could sour the relationship between you and the other person... this is especially importance when come to invitation to an event like a birthday party or a wedding.
Great video as usual! Very interesting topic. For the sake of ease, you contrast East VS West, but what I've noticed is that within Western cultures, the ones that were traditionally Protestant, tend to lean more towards "low context culture", whereas the ones that are/used to be Catholic tend to lean more towards "high context culture", making them more similar to "the East". This is very obvious when comparing different regions where they speak the same language like the Netherlands (protestant+low context) VS Belgium (catholic+high context) or the North VS the South of Germany.
I don't know if it's just about Catholic vs. Protestant, because in the US for example, the South (which is overwhelmingly Protestant) is much more high-context than in the Northeast (there's not a Catholic majority, but most states have more Catholics than Protestants)
As a neurodivergent person i actually like how east asians value dependency.
Yes, my autism would definitely struggle with the indirect communication but i love how kindness like paying for my meal so we can hang out next time fosters an environment that combats loneliness and uplifts reciprocity.
Capitalism loves individualism and as a disabled person ive been told that its not other people's jobs to accommodate to my needs. So i like how being considerate matters, it shows a village helping each other out, dividing tasks instead of having to move out and figure out everything on your own. Which is great for a for-profit system but not good for the environment.
I believe there should be a balance between collectivism and individualism. I like the clear honest communication + the community aspect and politeness.
P.S: I reccomed OliSUNvia video on self care.
There's nothing in this video uniquely "Asian" , this psychology and types of verbal exchanges exist all over the world
Indeed but what I think she was trying to convey wasn't its existance but rather its prevelence. Of just how often it comes up in social interactions.
My fascination with Japanese culture is connected to this actually. I'm autistic and part of how that manifests for me is a natural tendency towards direct, frank communication - and as a result, I often forget to consider that people might be acting disingenuously. My directness and disregard of social hierarchy (another thing so unnatural to me that I forget it exists) have gotten me in a lot of trouble throughout my life. I can't wrap my mind around it, so learning about cultures that structure their language and society around hierarchy + politeness kind of helps me understand it better, I guess? My personality is a horrible match for Japanese culture, and it's part of why I want to understand it better.
As someone with ASD that takes thing literally as they are said and who is very direct i feel like this would confuse me a lot for when i visit, thanks for diving into it.
The thing I like the most in your videos is that they are super elaborated, easy to understand e have lots and lots of USEFUL CONTENT!! Thank you very muuuch aini, I really like your videos, I'm always waiting for the next one, they're the same time entertaining as much as informative, those cultural similarities and differences give us new ideas to reflect about life using those different perspectives, it's kind of cool.
Keep up with the content, you rock! o/
I live in Japan and have found a solution to all this: when a binary question is met with a non-binary answer, explicitly feign confusion. This begins a feedback loop where the other person must provide increasingly more detail to a make-belief answer. Eventually, you'll get your "no". (Only use with people who are already friends and who have ample opportunity to get you back.)
I did not know i wanted to know this :D Thank you for sharing this with us.
This is a serious problem for western professors dealing with asian students, because they are high authority compared to the student, and do not have the cultural context to understand that the student saying "I can do it" in certain ways really means "please don't expect me to," and leads to poor, stressed students with angry, disappointed professors.
As an East Asian Studies major student Your videos are very helpful! Thanks for uploading such high quality amazing content every time ^^
As a graduated East Asian studies major who then lived 6 years in East Asia and after grad school now does work regarding Asia, I also love her videos! She's giving academic level commentary in a really usable and understandable way. I also love having a TH-camr who talks about the in-depth Asian Studies topics I love, rather than just scratching the surface.
I am European, working for a Japanese company and currently on a one year assignment in Japan. Your videos are gold, I appreciate you🙏🙏 it makes me reconsider all the self-help books I read (e.g. clear is kind by Brene brown). I wonder about the perception of consent? How does romance work in east Asia?
As an Italian, I would say that my culture is somewhat in the middle. In the past generations we where a high-context based culture but now we are progressively more similar to the "Western" side of the spectrum as generations pass... It is true that we have some indirect expressions when we want say "no" to other people that are considered more polite than an actual "no" and we also use some "ritual formulas" which do not really mean what we are actually saying when, for example, we meet people we know in the street!
Boss: "Wanna go for drinks Friday night?"
Central Europeans (Germans, Hungarians, Poles etc): "No I have better things to do*", or "No, I don't feel like it" > these are all perfectly acceptable answers.
(*Well not literally, it usually involves what that is, like I need to clean my house, I have some work in my garden, I have to look after my family etc.). But the simple "I don't feel like going out" without further explanation is also acceptable, because no one (no one normal at least) wants to drag someone along who doesn't want to go out.
as a german I immediately thought "we're probably more of a low context culture" only for the graph to have us at the literal bottom lmao so I'd say that's pretty accurate. saying yes when I really mean no seems wild to me
The high context culture thing is quite common in traditional British culture, but less so these days with the huge level of immigrantion making the cultural context weaker. Low context cultures often come these sorts of internationalised situations to cut cultural barriers in communication, which is why America is extremely low context. I've been told if an English person is saying "Nice to meet you" they're really saying "fuck you", but this is less so a thing with my generation for the aforementioned reasons so I wouldn't really know.
This is a fascinating analysis and comparison. Definitely insightful.
I've found the idea of keeping face to be so strange, it's not like there's a score sitting over the top of your head showing how often you've been disrespected or denied. Shouldn't the onus be on the one being refused to show emotional maturity and move on with their day?