Transfer Duct Tales - Road to The Most Powerful Two Stroke Ever Part 3
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- Modeling the transfer duct cores for the new cylinder in fusion 360.
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I love it, Alex!
One hint: make the axial angles of the transfer floors equal to the axial angles of the transfer roofs, otherwise your transfer streams will be pinched just before they enter the cylinder.
Thanks Frits!
And thanks for pointing that out, I feel stupid for not seeing that myself, I'll change it.
While I have you here, do you think I should keep the relatively high volume ducts, or reduce the entry area and in effect the volume?
Part of me says keep as is - Large portion of case volume in ducts, low velocity but high total mass flow, and higher pressure in gas columns = gentle delivery with good directional control, low short circuiting and low mixing with spent gases.
Part of me says reduce entry area and duct volume - higher velocity but less mass flow, lower pressure in columns.
Unless my statements are totally wrong, the later doesn't sound very appealing, but it's seems to be the trend.
Great to have you here!
I'd keep the large volumes Alex.
😁
I know very little about 2 stroke engines or CAD but I'm totally hooked on your videos. It's very inspiring to see a regular guy working on complex stuff like this in his garage. I can't wait to see how this project turns out!
Awesome, thanks!
No regular guy, he is a freak of engineering, we are privileged to have an insight into the inner workings of the mind of a two stroke genius, the porting system alone shows this, let alone the dyno and the gearing, I love that CV system!
Thanks, no genius tho.
@@2STROKESTUFFING ohhh this is where I call you out and say you are wrong!! Sorry but you have to own the truth on this one
30hp from a 50cc engine... That's 600hp/liter. If you manage that, it would be freaking crazy
It would!
Nope dont work that way. Getting HP from small cc is not like as a big cc Engine
?
@@laspar3462 what?
30 HP from a 50 cc Engine dont say you get 60 HP from a 100 cc Engine then 120 HP from 200 cc etcetera
I've been rewatching all these videos now that I have learned more about port design, now that I understand the decisions behind your design it's even more impressive.
love the design, but wow that is a lot of cylinder area for the ports. Here I am wondering if I over ported my NSR150RR and then I see your design......
I am really looking forward to seeing this on the dyno!! I work with car dyno's for racing we push the 900 rwhp zone from 13b rotary engines, and your dyno and bike are well known here in our racing world in Thailand. Respect to you from our Race Crew in Thailand.
Thanks! As long as there's balance between the transfers and exhaust there shouldn't be a problem.
A kid here in Finland pulled 32hp off a 50cc moped engine with a 80cc cylinder kit and many other parts
That's a very good result, but 80cc
Brilliant, I'm slowly learning all this fusion 360 along with you... Cheers! You seem to learn the same way as I do mate, just crack on n learn the hard way! Good lad!!
Thanks!
I think you can stop calling yourself an absolute beginner in Fusion! :)
Great job!!
Thanks! I am making progress!
I am loving this series and your channel as a whole, I am currently trying to learn my Derbi inside out and stuff like this really helps me out with both courage and ideas!
Thanks! Keep at it!
Such complexity in what is really just a pump. Hard to find perfection. Especially considering cylinder as well as crankcase compression/flow.
After the best compromises are made, it's up to more/air fuel. As your not supercharging, could you oxygenate the fuel? Say mixing in hydrogen peroxide. There are additional additives that allow water to breakdown in gas so it will be useable. These might be needed to integrate hydrogen peroxide into a fuel mix? Hurray for the thinkers. Enjoy following your journey.
Thanks! It's not a pump tho, more like a pulse jet.
I think you are referring intake vacuum as a function of exhaust exiting the system. (Like a pulse-jet)
I never thought of it this way, always thought of the piston drawing in the charge on the up stroke and pushing up the transfer ports on the down stroke. Thanks for the insight. By the way, if you Google (oxygenated race fuel), it seems like it is readily available from reputable companies. My feeling is not more power in oxygenated fuel itself, but the ability to burn more fuel.
I mention in a comment below about the return pressure wave from the expansion chamber and the 180 degrees of the port width, you might have to bend the pressure wave to get a even slap, or the center of the wave will hit first and some time after the sides will receive the pressure slap.
Might be worth adding a bubble in the center of the exhaust port to slow the return pressure wave in the center and allow the sides to overtake it, turning the pressure wave from convex to concave. Pushing a convex pressure wave into a circle is a worry, but pushing a concave pressure wave gives more conformity
Love your passion for 2 strokes man. If you need a hand with any modelling just let me know, I have a fair bit of CAD experience.
Thanks! So far so good!
this is gonna be exciting. really looking forward to this build!
Thanks!
I've ALWAYS wanted to machine a V8 block. Into a MEAN 2-stroke engine. I have the ring heights in mind and what needs to be done.Lots of machine work. I cant be off too much or its a flop. 2 stroke is the future! VW has made their own version(s). I dont know what my end stroke would be.I'd be losing the cam too. But my other concept would make a standard 2 cycle gas/kero/diesel engine.It would be able to run on any 'fuel' that is lower octane or I believe. IDK- I feel my talents are a waste. No place to finish my tested ideas.Good luck and cant wait to see you done 2 stroke.
take a look at a screaming jimmy detroit diesel.. i think that would be a great base to try your idea make it smaller and lighter or start off modding one then remaking it smaller and lighter
The max jet
for 50cc
cubic air inches
is
160 jet 85 pilot jet ,
front choke jet
removed and a 2 inch circumference intake pipe,
Ur exhaust management over 20 hp
Is going to be a dragon
trying to tear it apart....
Maybe a comparative
f1 super bike
could lead you to oproperly
!!!exhaust 30 hp in 2 inches of metal!!!!! Lol : )
Try to use a flow simulator to optimize the size and path of the transfer ducts. Looks like you have very thick ducts which choke at the exit.
Also playing with air speeds and directions can optimize your charge mixing.
I should, will try SimScale. There's alot of thought behind the shape tho. The port window sizes are set by available width and desired port durations. The duct side walls are straight to not bend flow in more than one plane. The inner duct wall radius is as large as possible, the outer wall radius is not very important as long as it has the right exit angle, I try to keep a constant taper from duct entry/exit. The duct entry width and corresponding duct volume is a compromise between wanting most of the crankcase volume in the ducts vs choking at the exit.
Just a idea you could split the cyclinder before the big overhang for the ports then you could print it upside-down
Thanks. I'm going to look into when the model is done. Might need two splits, one through the exhaust port too.
I was drawing along in solidworks hoping i could model your cilinder design. Can you show the dimensions of your other ports as well? Im am very impressed by your modeling skills. even though i'm Dutch, i am rooting for you!
Cool, thanks! The next video is about the exhaust duct "core". Here's the dimensions I remember without checking(at work): port floor 43mm from bottom face, port height about 17.45mm, 40mm wide, 350ish mm top edge radius(might reduce it), middle of port angled 25° down, sides 20°.
Lovin it mate .. most interesting idea ive ever seen. 👍👍
Thanks!
How big of a carburetor are you going to run? Will it even have enough port velocity to utilize the Venturi effect? You could try to bypass the carb by using a fuel injection kit.
they make some pretty big carbs. im sure you can find one to deliver enough mix
gibbyrockerhunter mukini 64mm
About 32-34mm I think, we'll see what works in simulations.
@@2STROKESTUFFING I have to thank you for your channel. you are inspiration, know how, and fun to watch all in one. you kick ass. keep stuffing
Thanks man!
I have messed with 2 strokes a LOT! From stock parts. I do have further ideas. Based on what I know and learned. I dont wanna openly share HERE. But hit me up sometime.
Have u planned your cylender stroke? Aka cylender length?
The harmonics of your high output crankshaft? Different HD crankshaft bearing
Possible off a superbike
Utrulig bra, har sett alt du har lagt ut, jeg bygger selv to-takter, men på langt nær slikt som deg!
Takker!
yes ;)
I think the Port Direktion will lead to short circuiting to the exhaust port because the Flow is to much in this direktion
kult at du får til dette på egenhånd. Autodesk sine programmer er veldig avanserte og krevende å lære! tommel opp
Takker!
Awesome
Thanks!
Love it!!
Thanks!
80 degrees ferehenheit
is 30%
psi increase in intake
duct is pulling heat toward ur intake
Aka... air intake heat management
30% expansion in hot air is rejecting 30%
Water cooling channel?
Cold air intake?
Nice video, really informative!
Thanks!
Over my head
Oh yea, let's go. First 500 viewers. And a top comment. Also, this content is awesome. I'm really excited to see how well it runs. Evidently porting makes a big difference, so this will likely run really nicely. I hope the cast goes well though; not really sure how he is going to keep the ports hollow during the cast.
I think he is going to 3d print the ports out of some material which will be easily (relatively) removed after the die is broken? This is really interesting stuff. I'm so excited to see it succeed.
Thanks! Casting will be a challenge for sure, steep learning curve!
Yep. Thanks!
Your videos are having and effect on me, my test bike a NSR150RR had the dust cover pulled for the first time in two years! Time to play again!
Yesterday I purchased a 30mm flat slide with high speed jet, I am ordering a RC engine needle valve so I can control the high speed jet and ordering a new set of reeds for it.
I have found a cheap programmable CDI on ebay so this will allow me to get the ignition timing under control, I plan to piggy back it to the original system so the power valve is still used, later I will add a stepper motor to the power valve system so I can control that as well, but for now a piggy back should work, so this is where I need some advice.
This new CDI can map the ignition curve that the oem CDI has, but that is still standard timings, what would you recommend for a base map on the timing curve?
basic engine specs..
150cc honda 2 stroke
ported with a race pipe called PDK, banned by police here in Thailand for noise levels, that says something!
about to run the 30mm flat slide carb, standard is a 28mm, I was having issues with high rpm tuning.
Planning to set it up on E85
red line is 11,000 rpm, dead under 6,000rpm with power coming on at about 8,000 rpm and real aggressive, pulls into red line but fueling issues stopped me....(new flat slide should fix that)
This bike is a test bike on two levels, one is to test the detuning of these engines and what was done/not done to take them from the race track to the streets. The porting was a careful job of removing 1-2 mm off the faces but keeping with the original design, the idea being that they added some machining clearance on the casting for the ports but it was never cleaned up and machined during mass production.
The test results so far are insane, the power level increase is shocking! This thing wants to drink more fuel than a V8 and that is on standard fuel, now with E85 that will take about 30% more fuel, I was having problems with midrange to high rpm, when the powerband comes on it drinks!!!
The standard 28mm carb could not tune the full ranges without major changes to needle so thoughts were that Honda must have reduced the carb size to restrict these machines, so a 2mm increase with a flat slide added and high speed jet should put it close to the race spec that honda must have been playing with.
The second level of test is on me, am I old enough and responsible enough yet to be allowed to ride powerful bikes on the road again, each time I get the bike out I add a little more to it to increase performance, I fail every time, 3 minutes on the road and I click back into insane mode by normal standards. Each time I get a little closer to what I want in a bike, but reality shows I am still insane on a two stroke and should not be let on the roads, So it gets parked up for another year or two until something sparks the interest again.
Like a addict......just a little taste wont hurt........
here is the link to the programmable CDI
www.ebay.com/itm/modified-adjustable-Programmable-Motorcycle-ATV-Scooter-buggy-CDI-ignition-Scoot/273116074512
Cool, thanks! Go with about 10° at idle for easy starting, ramp up to about 25-30° under where the pipe hits, go down to about 15°@peak power rpm, and maybe 10° in the overrev.
@@2STROKESTUFFING many thanks for that I will give it a go and see how it runs
Would u be using venturing effect carb needle holder or custom?
I'm guessing a short slant intake ?
Time to use a super venturing carb lol
pretty large b port. did u simulate it jet?
Not yet.
Would helicity (is that the word?) of a passage shape do anything for that? That would allow for a longer duct in the given space and affect velocity, but I'm not sure if that'd help or hinder with this application. (I know some engines talk about inducing swirl, and doing stuff with intake runners, etc. But I don't know enough about the specifics of 2-stroke designs.)
It would bend flow in more than one plane so probably not a good idea. And the goal is as good directional control and low turbulence as possible, no swirl.
@@2STROKESTUFFING No turbulence sounds like it's going to be tricky. Might be interesting to rough a prototype form (doesn't have to be operable like the final engine) with a clear plate at the end of the cylinder, power it with an electric motor from the crank side to give the expected displacement from the piston, and run smoke through it and film with a high speed camera. Sims can likely only do so much, so that may be a practical way to see if you're on the right path with passage configuration.
wow cool software
Yep
Will you have more Ardyno boards available for purchase anymore?
Yes, should be in stock soon.
Hey do you think you could build a small engine dyno? It would be interesting to see what kind of power it'll make at the crank.
Are you from croatia ?
Hei bruker du gratisversjonen av fusion 360 ? eller har du en link til en annen versjon ?
Har "startup license", gratis i ett år, men kan fornyes så mange ganger man vil.
Hey brother what kind of compression ratio do you use or do you want I make mine like really high I can run diesel fuel off my little two strokes I haven't talked to you in a little while that little thing with the carburetor the float Bowl adjustment what are float Bowl needle did that work for you it's been a long time brother let me know if you don't mind
Will be running around 14.5:1. Not sure which float bowl modification you're talking about?
Når du først går all in så kanskje noen følgere kan lage råde og veivaksel til deg av en supersterk og superlett titanlegering, kanskje kryssbolt også.
Råde og kryssbolt hadde vært bra! Veiva vil jeg helst ha litt vekt i.
Tenkte mest på styrke på veiv og rådetapp, det kan lages kraftigere uten å bli tyngre så kanskje du slipper støttelager på veivtappene som gir mer friksjon.
Sant, tenkte jeg ikke på. Og jeg kan jo presse inn en haug med mallory for å få opp vekta i ytterkant.
If you get this all done can I build one?? With all your files?,.
Canada says sup and giv;er
where are you going to place the studs? or are you bolting the cylindre to the case and the cylindre head to the cylindre?
and maybe add a powervalve for bottom end power to the design if it allows it?
also a link of the fst system: www.kreidler.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25485
and maybe take a look at this video th-cam.com/video/YEaE6BHyjzg/w-d-xo.html
maybe you could contact him for help?
How do donate money for support
There's Paypal and Patreon links in the description, thanks man!
Why don’t you ad a power valve?
A power valve only use is to increase torque at lower rpm, in a variated setup it has very little use and can only rob power at peak by disturbing exhaust gas flow.
It's complicated and since he's using a cvt he has his desired rpm range at most of the time anyways.
Yep
Right!
Thanks for the input! I might actually perform a test on the old cylinder first.
Caswell plating.com. masking spray
Would you be able to patient these type of ports?
Unlikely, and even if I could I wouldn't.
What’s up ?
U still hafta reveal spark plug ... f1 bike spark plug?
Air filter setup? : ) lol
do you plan on making it for real?
Yes sir!
@@2STROKESTUFFING nice thanks for answering and best of luck! can't wait to see it.
Not enough room for cooling especially at the rpms your talking I want to se you cast your own cylinder and se how it works
First :)
Love you channel and work but I have to call BULLS... on this is your only second time working in Fusion. NO WAY you are way to proficient at it. I have been trying to figure out how to draw ports so I can machine cylinders for a while. I have even asked a few instructors in Mastercam and Solidworks and they wood have taken a long time to figure it out. maybe you have done this in AutoCAD or something else before to know what basics to do but nobody just jumps in to Fusion and knows where everything is in the tools. Thanks though you are the first to show me how to do it. now I can finish my project
Thanks! Not second time - second project. First one was a rectangular box.
hello ...from argentina.🇦🇷. please in español