Get rid of POPS and CLICKS on VINYL RECORDS (w/ The DEGRITTER)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
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The plural of 'vinyl' is 'vinyl' (not 'vinyls')
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2:29 Pro-Ject VC-S
4:04 Degritter 'how to'
7:01 Updating firmware / changing water
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The two things that drew me to vinyl were the expense and inconvenience
Perfect
And you forgot the superior sound over digital.
@@Dee.J.Mogfry yep; they definitely have more sounds.
Ha ha
😂
This video made me love digital audio even more. I enjoy the occasional vinyl purchase for nostalgia purposes, but CDs and streaming are SO convenient and help keep my audio (and financial) anxiety levels down.
True, I'm totally with you. but it's tough to get the beautiful Tonal dynamics
For convenience, when recording, i plug my electric guitars directly into my audio interface and use virtual amps, cabs, mics, IRs etc.
But when i want to enjoy the tone of my guitars I fire up an all tube amp.
Same with listening to music, i use my streamer DAC etc for research but to really immerse myself in the music there's nothing better than my Rega with an ATVM95ML cartridge. Well there is but my budget is sensible lol.
@@NickRobbMusic Rock on 🎸🤘
I’ve had the Pro-Ject VCS for a few years now and clean about 10 records per week on it. The whole process takes no more than 2 minutes and works great. Not sure why it’s taking you 15 minutes to clean a record on it. Aside from the motor getting louder, no problems.
I was thinking the same. 2-4 min max
My exact thought. I have a VPI but the process is the same and it takes me no longer than 2 minutes and that is with a 2 step process using 2 solutions.
I immediately came to the comments after he said 15 minutes. I have a Record Doctor that I know is a step down from the Pro-Ject VCS and on that a single record takes no longer than a few minutes. I want to know what is happening during that quarter-hour cleaning process. O_o
With my regime it takes about 4 to 5 minutes per record but including a rinse step with a dedicated suction wand
I have the Pro-Ject VC-E vacuum cleaner and I've probably cleaned six hundred records with it over the past year or so. It takes maybe three minutes, max, to clean and fully dry a record. If it takes you fifteen hands-on minutes to clean a record I have no idea what your problem is.
A couple things:
1) The foam you see on the records being cleaned in the Degritter is abnormal. The Degritter with its own fluid and distilled water will produce zero foam. What causes foam is when the record you're cleaning was previously cleaned using some other method and some other cleaning fluid containing detergent, which left residue on the record. The Degritter's ultrasonic cavitation loosens that residue from the record and it mixes with the water in the Degritter's tank and gets foamy. This won't hurt anything, as long as the amount of foam is not more than what you see in Darko's video here.
2) Drying time is a bit less in the Degritter than Darko's video shows. He is correct when he says you can dry your records quicker with the fan on high, which is a bit noisier, or you can have the fan on low, which is much less noisy but takes longer. In either case, my drying time is about 1 minute less than his, as shown in this video.
3) His complaints about the Pro-Ject VCS are a bit unfair and need some context. First, what he says is inconvenient applies to all wet-vac style cleaning machines, like Okki Nokki and VPI and similar. Wtih any of them, you have to stand there and operate the machine yourself. You squirt the cleaning fluid on the record, spread it evenly around the record surface and brush it into the grooves, let it sit for a minute, then turn on the vacuum and dry it off. It's not just the VCS, it's all these kinds of machines, most of which cost more than the VCS without doing a better job. Also, what I've described here takes just 3-4 minutes per record, not 5-6 as he says. Lastly, he disses the looks of the VCS machine, but he must be talking about the original VCS which I owned and which was very utilitarian. Two years ago, it was replaced by two new versions, the full-sized VCS2 and the compact VCE, both of which are made of aluminum and look almost like the material of a Macbook Air or Macbook Pro. Also, these aluminum versions are much lighter than the original. I have a Degritter and a VCS2, I love both and use both, though I use the Degritter more because it's extremely easy and much less noisy. He's right - you just put the record in the slot, push a button, and you can walk away and do something else, and 5 minutes later you'll have clean, dry record.
The VCS (and similar wet-vac machines like the Okki and VPI) do a great job cleaning, and they're 1/4 to 1/2 the price of the Degritter. I recommend them highly. But they are manual machines, much less convenient, and much louder.
Because the Degritter is sooo easy to use, I clean lots more records, usually 50 per week, than I ever did using the VCS.
Also, for some records, the Degritter makes them sound better than the wet-vac machines, because of the ultrasonic cavitation that Darko described. For some records, there isn't a discernible difference in SQ between the two machines, but for at least of 1/3 of my records, the Degritter makes them sound better, and for a few of them, MUCH MUCH better. Like, the equivalent of getting a cart upgrade or amp upgrade. It's kind of amazing.
Expensive? Hell yes. For many, it wont make sense to get a Degritter when you could get a VCE for $500 or so, and that's a very reasonable choice.
But if you can afford a Degritter and you have a large (say, over 600) collection, you will be so happy to have it. I have about 1000 records, Discogs estimates my collection as being worth $40K and $60K. (I'm an older dude and have been collecting for years.) Relative to that, the Degritter at $3000 is a very reasonable investment for keeping my records clean and sounding great.
I've owned a Degritter for 9 months. I agree and disagree with Mr. Darko's review.
I agree with him that it's super easy and satisfying to clean records with this machine. Like him, I clean far more records per month than I ever did with my Project VCS, which was my sole cleaning machine for 3 years, due to the one-button ease of use of the Degritter, whereas the ProJect and most other wet-vac style cleaning machines require you to stand there and operate the machine. For one record, no big deal. But for 12 records, it's an hour of manual labor on the wet-vac machine, but almost trivially easy on the Degritter.
I somewhat disagree with Mr. Darko about the results. About half of my records sound about as good when cleaned with the Degritter as they would if using the wet-vac machines. The rest sound better, a few of which sound drastically better.
I respect Mr. Darko as a reviewer. He knows his stuff, and he doesn't b.s. Some of his reviews have helped inform my purchase decisions.
But almost every other review of the Degritter I've seen, including many by equally respectable reviewers, absolutely RAVE about the results compared with cheaper cleaning methods, including wet-vac machines like the Project, Okki Nokki, VPI, and the like.
Also, Degritter customer support is next-level excellent, despite being a small company in northern Europe.
If you can't or don't want to pay US$3000 for a Degritter, by all means don't buy it. But if you've never used one, maybe refrain from mocking the device, because it suggests that people like me who've bought one are dumb rich people wasting their money on snake oil. I'm a teacher, not rich at all, and I did a ton of research and made an informed purchase decision that I'm happy with.
Here in the UK the Degritter is £2500 and the Project vc-e is £330 - whilst the former might do a better job and is more convenient i'am very happy with the cleaning performance of the Project - if you have a budget of £2500 I would buy the Project and use the remaining £2170 to upgrade your system or buy more records!
that's so original...
My reality is I aint getting any younger, and I've had a bunch of vinyl from the '60s and up sitting around for quite some time being neglected. After a few years of retirement, interrupted by the wife working from home for two of them, I figured it would be good to do something with my really old albums and some of the newer ones that I accumulated but never had the time to get around to before (mostly from before vinyl became a fad again, just to give a time-frame), in the peace and quiet I've been granted a few days a week for the last few months now.
My last turntable (from the '90s) and cartridge (from '05) combo didn't really do it for me (not loud enough, mushy sounding), so made some upgrades to them recently, and threw in a separate preamp for good measure. Then given how I seem to have picked out some of the noisier vinyl to listen to first, a few weeks ago got the degritter (the convenience factor being key as was the ultrasonic technology). It's helped a lot, though vinyl is vinyl, so it is what it is, but it's sounding better with the upgrades so I'm happy enough, I suppose (adjusting the tonearm height might just have helped some with the vinyl noise too). Found some quieter albums since then so that's helped make me happy too. At some point, may add the old ('90s) nitty gritty into the mix to see if it makes any difference with some of the noisier records.
I don't really plan to do much in the way of accumulating any more vinyl, but what I do have I want to enjoy it to its fullest... and in particular before the wife comes back home to work (I imagine she will at least a couple days) and/or retires altogether, so indeed now is the time -- I really prefer listing in a quiet and uninterrupted manner, something that does not exist while she is home, plus her work and my music cannot co-exist unless headphones are involved.
(Also looking forward to getting my repaired/refurbished ('80s) cassette deck back in a few months, it saw some use before covid and was working fine on most tapes, but it's door mechanism broke early this year… not looking forward to paying what that's also gonna cost me though.)
I remember an interview years ago with George Harrison discussing the difference between cd's which were taking over the music technology and good old vinyl. He said he missed the hissing and cracking and popping of vinyl. That sound just brings back memories....
Great video! The picture disk obviously has been stored and sitting for years in a PVC sleeve without any protection against degassing. PVC sleeves (crystal clear jacket protective outer sleeves) let loose their plasticisers over the years causing the dull record surface. As far as I know, there is no cure, the record is ruined. Now what I found out from my stored records that had those PVC outer sleeves and were stored having only their original paper inner sleeves, is that most, if not all, were more or less affected by those migrating plasticisers. However, those that were stored in lined inner sleeves never were affected at all. Apparantly, those gasses are not able to penetrate the plastics used for lined sleeves, no matter what kind of plastics the inner sleeves had. The process takes years depending on the conditions such as temperatures and humidity levels. Unfortunately, the process is irreversible and any record affected must be considered a write off. Fortunately there are many alternatives to protect the outer sleeves. Greetings from Hekelingen, The Netherlands. Willem.
I’ve had that Orb record since release…that’s why you must get records out of PVC sleeves. That is the result/residue left from years of PVC and vinyl contact.
I have a Degritter. I have around 2000 records and have, over the past few years, progressed from a Disco Anti-Stat to 2 Disco Anti-Stats (one for a rinse cycle) to a Watson’s vacuum RCM. The Degritter is relatively expensive but it does a brilliant job and is so easy to use. I’ve cleaned over 300 records since I got the Degritter under 2 months ago. I no longer consider it a chore so I no longer have a backlog of records waiting to be cleaned.
Hello John, sorry I'm a bit late to the party with this video. I've had a Degritter for about a year now and I've found it very, very effective. However I would say that with a second hand record, from the 60's 70's 80's or 90's one clean isn't enough, one cycle is fine for a new or nearly album, but a record that's accumulated dust and particles over decades and perhaps tens if not maybe a hundred plays. I've found that 3 or 4 cycles on heavy is absolute minimum and then I would add a cycle for every decade (one extra for 80's two for 70's etc...) You will gradually here the noise floor disappear.
I absolutely love mine, it works. I've found a surfactant and isopropyl alcohol work better than the Degritter solution too. Something worth experimenting with. Yes it is expensive I think I paid about £2500 for mine, but as you noted if you have £5000 turntable, £3500 arm and an Ortofon Cadenza Black cart, it's very much worth considering as part of your system.
I just started my vinyl journey, i own a huge collection of cd players and a sacd player, watching this makes me chuckle bout the whole vinyl experience, i love how vinyl enthusiasts say that cds sound terrible and i think that maybe they didnt try various cd players to find the sound that they like, i on the other hand have found that vinyl also has recordings and printings that sound awful. I do love the romanticism of the vinyl though and good recordings sound awesome and a bit "warmer" than cd. I enjoy both but i much prefer the cd as a medium of enjoyment still i guess.
I bought a SugarCube and never looked back. What an amazing technology. I tested it on my oldest, cheap records that I could care less about. They were noisy and sound awful. I cleaned them with my Pro-ject and recorded the cleaned up record. Yes the SugarCube does that too.
Wow, wow, what an amazing product! The only down side? It cost me $3,500.
If only an big company by Sony would buy this company and use their massive manufacturing power to drive the price down. It is possible. Remember, they did this with Dolby and dbx.
I am enjoying records again. Thank you Sugarcube!
Same here…I love mine and it’s revelatory.
I also have an SC-1 Mini for anything Degritter can't help with. Together they elevated the vinyl experience significantly.
The PVC clear sleeve your Orb record was in "gassed" or "leached" chemicals with age and those chemicals transferred to the record within, causing the cloud/noise you were trying to remove from the play surface (but the stain is permanent). When you buy a new picture disc the best thing you can do is get rid of the flexible sleeve.
Have you ever noticed the degradation of sound on a “gassed” record yourself? I read that people claimed it increased surface noise, I actually have a black record that was released in a PVC sleeve with a printed sheet of paper inside, and as the record got cloudy after years, I could even see blurry letters on the record copied from the paper (printed parts of the sheet partially saved the records from getting cloudy, however I didn’t notice the record sounded worse despite its look.)
I’ve had my Degritter for about 6 months now and I consider it indispensable. If an album is new from the store, I select the Light cleaning - about 6 minutes total from wash through dry. If I’ve found some vintage “gem” from the Good Will store, I’ll use the Heavy clean option - about 10 minutes total. In all cases, I’m very happy with the quiet playing results. The Degritter is vary easy to use and very thorough in its job and I don’t have to worry about dust or dirt being ground into the grooves by the stylus.
My experience with an ultrasonic record cleaner is that it works well for getting the last of the invisible (to the naked eye) debris out of the grooves.
But for records that are visibly dirty, a quick cleaning on a basic record cleaning machine is advisable, and then use the ultrasonic machine.
I own a VPI 16.5 machine. I use it to get nearly all of the crud off a record. Nothing the naked eye can see is left behind.
But for a great sounding record, then I place it into my Audio Desk ultra sonic cleaner.
The Audio Desk cleaner lacks nearly all of the features our host's machine has. Perhaps they have them on current models? Mine is probably 10 years old.
For records that have remarkably good sound quality, you can benefit from the ultrasonic cleaner getting out the last of the last microscopic debris.
But for so-so sounding records, I doubt that you will hear an improvement.
Also note that if you never dialed in your turntables myriad of settings, you should not expect much from an ultrasonic cleaner. Your main sound quality issues will be with your stylus not being dialed in with precision. If your stylus is not rubbing the groove exactly where is should be rubbing the groove, that is a way bigger sound quality killer than some microscopic dirt in the groove.
But when your stylus is making love to the groove, and you are playing a fantastic sounding pressing, then that is when the ultrasonic cleaner can get you that little extra in sound quality.
I researched the DeGritter, VPI, Pro-Ject, Record Doctor, Spin Clean brand record cleaner machines. I couldn’t afford the DeGritter, the others were with in reach however. I studied the process of each one, build quality ect. I chose the Spun Clean Mk ll. It was delivered yesterday, I cleaned 20 of my Jazz and Blued albums last night. I’m quite happy with the results. I could see and hear a very notable difference! 50 years ago I used a Discwasher brand vinyl disc cleaner, it did quite well for cleaning and anti static removal. Times change and I gad been cleaning the discs in my kitchen sink with a mild mix of dish soap and isopropyl alcohol, and hand dry. This worked decently but I saw room for improvement, so I bit the bullet! Good video John keep up the good work!
The best protocol I have found for used records: First use a Spinclean or similar "mechanical" method. Then put directly into the Degritter, no need to dry in between. The mechanical step removes all large dirt bits, including paprika, letting the Degritter work where it is meant to: removing the inner grove dirt.
For 3 grand, I'll stick with my labor-intensive but highly effective multi-step process. Especially when that first cleaned example didn't sound much better than the uncleaned version. I'm normally only playing a record once to make a good digital copy, so it's not something I need to do on a regular basis.
I want/wanted a Degritter. I finally had to deal with my record reality. $2,990 would cost more than my kit combined. I enjoy my records and collect them, but I am a CD guy first. So, I ended up getting the Pro-Ject. The Pro-Jet is manual and noisy, so I cut a time out of my day/week and clean 10 records at a time. I am pleased with the results of the Pro-Jet, though I suspect the Degritter is better. Recently, I upgraded by TT to a Technics Sl-1200 GR with a Sumiko Amethys cartridge ($2,500). Now maybe I am getting into Degritter territory. Cleaning records does improve their sound plus they look better all clean. Thanks again!
I have one, and everything I’ve experienced matches your report. The thing is easy to use unattended, and fantastic. Regarding records with “gunk” as you mention, and any records with oils, skin or food residue, or nicotine and tar from tobacco smoke, the surfactant provided is not a cleaning solution and doesn’t touch that stuff. You need to clean records with a heavy duty cleaner first, ideally on a vacuum machine, and then when the gunk is gone, clean those records a second time in the Degritter. No one ever said a serious vinyl hobby is cheap or easy. Hey, but it’s better than baking and transferring old tapes, and how else could we get our hands on the original music released decades ago in these classic productions?
I've used one for a year now and love it. As John says you'll only but it if you are an avid collector of used records and have a large collection already that you play a lot on a good system. The price is high and I took a long time debating whether to buy one having used several different makes that all fell short on either noise, convenience or inefficiency. The Degritter excels and once you own one you won't regret buying it.
Thank you for bringing attention to vinyl cleaning. This machine looks pretty interesting and I've been looking for it on the web. Unfortunately, it is as expensive as it is efficient: 2.900€! As you say, it's a niche product in a niche.
I think that good record stores should have one to clean the records before selling them, or propose a cleaning service including the replacement of the inner sleeve. I would gladly pay for this service.
I have about 50 records of various genres and enjoy listening to them occasionally. Having such a small vinyl collection means hand cleaning with rhino urine and dolphin tears is relatively easy. However, my general workaround for dirty vinyl is easy... I buy CDs.
I enjoy your video’s for your honesty and efficiency of words. I’m in Nova Scotia and my vacuum record cleaner is an American made VPI HW-16.5. Built sometime in the’80’s I believe. In a walnut box, with a Perspex cover. Vacuum like an commercial model, dry in 1 revolution, 18 rpm, and a carbon fibre brush. Cleans both sides in a little over a minute. And I was also considering buying the rotating attachment for my existing ultrasonic cleaner. And you are right about the actuators being 40khz, which dissuaded me from going that route. Thanks for all your hard work.
I have a spin clean. Love using it. It's therapeutic. Thanks for the video. It was interesting and informative.
For proper operation I believe that making a cup of coffee during the process is required! Interesting.
I can also recommend the Humminguru which does a pretty good job too with a little pre-clean first and than 2-3 runs it gets very similar results than the degritter for only 1/5 of the price
Spectacular audio/video journalism! This machine is a perfect fit for me. Thanx!👍👍
I've had a pro ject vacuum for 4 years and I like using it. Yes it is a bit noisy but always gives good results 😉
For that price it would need to clean my house as well
I have no interest in buying this product but I really enjoyed watching this video and watching the machine work.
Extremely informative and well made video. Explains the whole process and shows clearly what difference to expect when using this type of equipment. Probably one of the most informative piece I have seen in many years. Great job in demystifying hifi, often seen as snobbish .
I have one, love it! Very easy to use and works great.
I do not see the benefit of judging a video about anything informatic. If you aren't interested you stop watching and do something better with your precious time. If you don't like the product do not buy it. There is this disease of seeing everything from the selfish point of wiew. If you pay to watch something than maybe you have the right to complain about it. But writing negative things about somebody's efforts to explain a product is BS. Nobody is interested of your thoughts and feelings about anything, people of ignorance.
Definitely sounds better once cleaned. Watching you put spices onto that record hurt!
It's OK - John is a seasoned expert.
Thank you. A great review. I get what you’re saying, and I agree with you!
i just made my self v60 and seat to see your video and saw you did one too. nice. i really love design of this mashine. it really goes well with some nice rig
Hey.. I’m old enough to remember the Phase Linear model 1000 Noise Reduction and Dynamic Range Recovery System, SAE 5000 noise reduction system, and DBX noise reduction system. Nice review, great video production. Aftermarket TT mat on the P8? P.s. kindly let your Berlin mate Calibre know I downloaded his album Planet Hearth and I am streaming it via my Roon / Tidal software. Cheers.
The gunky Orb side is PVC outgassing from the PVC covers they use with picture discs. Seen it many times, it's permanent damage. If you keep all regular LPs in PVC sleeves that have the chemical smell then titghtly pack them in shelves all the records will get destroyed over time. Happened to the BBC archives.
One day I hope to own a Degritter. Not your typical audiophile, but I am a DJ and have a sizable vinyl collection. Good audio is important to me. But, you know what's more important? My time. Spending countless hours manually cleaning my vinyl throughout the years has been a royal pain in my arse. The automation of this machine is super appealing to someone like me. And yeah, it's super sexy, haha! Oh, and by the way, you are my favorite Audiophile channel on YT. Your taste in music aligns with mine, and that's not too common in the audiophile world.
Calibre, Sugarcubes, Daft Punk, Bjork, Future Sound Of London, Portishead and countless other references........yeah man, keep doing your thing! I'll definitely be watching.
Great video! I’ve had the Degritter a short while and I’ve been amazed how much of an improvement it is on my Okki Nokki which I loved. A top tip in my limited experience is to fill the water tank when it’s in-situ. It’s less messy and I use what we in Welsh call a twmffat (funnel) and a large plastic jug pre-marked to 1.4L
.
Quieter yes, but not 2,500 quid quieter. 😕😅
Thank you for reminding me why I stopped buying vinyl (something I did since '76) in the early 80's and switched to cd's in '87.
In the 90's I switched to digital files (mp3) on pc and mp3 players. Somewhere during the previous decade I started to use streaming music.
Watching vinyl being played reminds me of the Flintstones, who used a bird and a grooved stone disc as their recordplayer. 🙃
Good one! 👍
Poor John. His video has attracted a ungodly amount of morons.
This is soooo satisfying to watch! Makes me wanna buy one and go to the next Flohmarkt...
Another great video, cool machine and demo. Really like the hands free cleaning.
I don't know. I've got an old Nitty Gritty that I use an old VPI scrub brush on, and with used records, I scrub them hard back and forth and in circular motions, and find that it greatly improves the cleanliness of the record. But that doesn't guarantee that the record hasn't been scarred by prior play. And the problem with Lps is that they sometimes come from the factory all noisy and messed up--there is no way around that except to simply accept it or return it. Surface noise is the bane of vinyl. However, the price-is-no-object cartridges somehow present cleaner sound than midrange cartridges. The better your stylus, in other words, the cleaner the sound, in my experience.
Ideal watch for 1st of May "Tag der Arbeit" -))
Excellent review mate as always, cheers from Mexico City!
When I had a record collection (mostly flea market finds) I loved my Pro-Ject VCS. But if I still had my records I would so love this Degritter!
Thanks for sharing. I own a SpinClean. Then, I bought an OkkiNoki (a vacuum cleaner). And, I returned the OkkiNoki because I felt the SpinClean did as good of a job. Yes, there is manual cleaning process. But, for the cost and the end results, I don't see the value of an automated machine.
From the vid i’m getting the same impression. Especially with the before and after sound samples. The ultrasonic may clean a little bit better than the spin clean but far from justifying the giant price difference.
Watching this reminds me very much of why I sold my deck and LP's years back. Yes the treasure hunt was so much fun, as was the ceremony, but my god what a bore it was having to clean records. And the endless disappointment of purchasing "rare" stuff from overseas advertised as "mint" condition, only to discover the record caked in dust and micro scratches. No thanks. Tidal for me has been an absolute revelation and I have so much fun discovering new stuff - new genres even, that I would never have sought out on vinyl! I can just kick back and enjoy the music, without fretting over "hmm, could this record sound better...is it as clean as it could be. Is it my system". YAWN!!!!
I agree! plus new records these days are terrible quality. Poor plastic moulding defects ripples discolouration and of course sound quality is poor.
@@rustypipe forgot to add, I think there is also the sense of nostalgia and memory with record collecting - the physical product linked to our memories, and that they are in themselves beautiful objects. Much like books. I totally get that, the connection to records in the physical sense as much as the sonic sense. But, what I now dont spend on vinyl, I now spend on books and guitars! :) Every cloud.
“Life needs to be hard, therefore I must get into vinyl” is my motto
Its a wonderful day; we got to see Darko's kitchen sink and it IS NOT an audiophile kitchen sink! He's like all of us!
Classic OCD
£2,500 worth of improvement that is not! I'll stick with my Knosti at £50.
At least the waste water from the Degritter never went to waste, John made a great coffee from it! 😂
One thing I have learned over many years of collecting old vinyl recordings is that you can tell which ones were played on the automatic turntables vs. manuals. The automatics, no matter how expensive or high end, always seemed to drop the tonearm onto the run in grooves rather heavily and that creates a lot of noise over time. I do appreciate your showing your viewers how to handle a vinyl record. Handling them by the edges or with fingers resting on the label prolongs the life of the vinyl as there is less chance of oily buildup no matter how clean one's hands may be. OIly buildup attracts dust and dirt and that gets ground into the record's grooves which can not only damage the record but also damage the stylus of the cartridge being use to play the record.
If your turntable is “dropping” the tone arm on the record it isn’t working correctly. The mechanism that “slowly” drops the tone arm onto the record is dampened. It should move slowly onto the record if it doesn’t drop slowly it isn’t working correctly. Manual or automatic
I have used the degritter now for nearly a year, I will say that it was one of the best purchases I made for cleaning my old LPs. Occasionally I will revert back to my manual clearer for really dirty records, then run them through the degritter. I also adjusted the drying time because I wasn't comfortable with preprogrammed drying time. I clean all my records new and use and am very happy with the results. The cleaning fluid contains an antistatic agent I found helpful on new records.
Like others the white foam that was shown in the video should not be there.
$2,900? That's a lot of second hand records that can be cleaned with a bit of elbow grease. I think I'll stick to my microfibre cloth, distilled water and anti-static brushes :)
Cool, but a lot of us can’t afford these machines
I always appreciate your balanced and transparent approach, spiced with (overwhelming, at times - in a good way) technical know-how... Thank You! Anyway, I hesitate to invest hundreds or thousands of $ , thinking how many records I could buy with it (or technical equipment, or a cheaper turntable to play cheaper records!). When I do buy 2nd Hand records, I simply take WINDOW CLEANER, spray it , soak it and wipe it and for valuable or dirtier ones I use a record spin-clean, manual spinner! I love making coffee - plunger - so I am enjoying the cleaning of records too. Just wish I had less of the latter - hahaha. Thanks again and hello to Berlin , from Melbourne! P.S. (In case you wondered) My turntable is a Project 2EXperience SB with a Ortofon (Blue) but the 2nd hand ones I mostly play on a Rega Planar One!
For the first time I have witnessed somebody who has shattered the myth that cleaning a record using ultrasonic method is THE best technology! In fact, I am happy with the time tested wood glue method.
The gunk on the Orb album is possibly the result of the plastic sleeve degassing over time ...
Carpenter glue has been the best and cheapest solution for me.
Me too best result so far, i dont any record cleaner can beat them.
on my wishlist :) great video!
Dig that! About time someone thought of truly automating the chore of record cleaning.
Wow....the price of that Machine is pretty steep 😳
Amazing if you can afford it. I use a Knosti Disco cleaner with its own detergent and add Tergitol. Takes 3 minutes per record and yes, I have to turn it manually, big deal.
I've always done it by hand and I found an exceptional trick for those disks that are totally effed up. Wood glue, liberally spread, let it dry and peal it off. Give it a hand clean and it's good as new.
I used it on an awful spot on one album and it made a massive improvement. Not perfect, but the hand wash was just not cutting it at all.
I also replaced my project vacuum cleaner with the Degritter 6 months ago, and I am absolutely sure it makes a huge difference to the quality of the sound, as well as get rid of all the pops and clicks (not scratches obviously). My MC cartridge is not cheap and I am much more confident it is protected and will last much longer. There is certainly much less crud that needs to be cleaned off the stylus now with the Degritter.
13:55 That greyish haze is from PVC degassing (like PVC sleeves), it changes the vinyl material itself.
No cleaner will be able to remove that. That record is ruined.
Also own the pro-ject vcs, takes max 5 mins per record, and I'm pretty sure I manage the same if not better results by manual cleaning the records compared to this 2500 dollar machine
I love both those Sugarcubes and KoD albums. Thanks for the Degritter review. Been considering getting one. Think I’ll wait a little longer.
I remember my dad playing his records when I was a child. He would take it out of its sleeve, and use the special brush before playing it. I clearly remember the pops of the vinyl. I never understood why he didn’t just use a CD. This takes me back to my childhood. This cleaner is cool, and it clearly makes a difference. Makes me want to consider vinyl.
You have greatly influenced my introduction to HIFI. Thank you
Luis
The Degritter is mighty expensive. An RCM such as the Okki Nokki does the job and I can do a record in under 5 minutes with the 'Right One' cleaning fluid from MCRU.
Yes, I had a VPI 16.5 for years and it did a good job. However the Degritter does a MUCH better job. As John demonstrated the run in is quieter, but that isn't the biggest change. Detail and dynamics improve. The only way I could describe it is that an LP cleaned on the Degritter sounds more like a master tape than before.
I got rid of all my snaps and crackles...sold my vinyl.
I like the clicks and pops. I had to learn to like them though. Two lessons I was taught many years ago; One by an engineer at Systemdek - "There's only so much you can do". Two by an experimental electronica musician of considerable reknown - "The clicks and pops are fine, you should consider them as a texture".
All I use is an anti-static brush made of carbon fibre, the rest is antiquity and texture.
It's as much a matter of focus as anything - you can be in a noisy cafe but if you want to listen to what two people saying at the next table you filter out the most of the surrounding noise - if you are fully engaged with some compelling music you don't notice the ''noise''.
outstanding video. I enjoyed this immensely and I own only a dozen records. Much fun, cheers!
And this remembers my why I went CD in the eighties. LOL Thanks, I was not in dire need of being reconfirmed, but appreciated anyway. 😁
I refuse to spend any amount of money on a record cleaner. I will clean it hundreds of times in the sink if I have to until it is sufficient enough for me.
I clean my records with a steamer and in my opinion it works perfectly.
I use destilled water too. And yes it takes some time but it's easy and I let the records dry in air.
OK it's not professional but it works and it is cheap too.
Great demonstration video!
Excellent video thanks very much for your effort 👌
Couldn't be bothered waiting that long to play my records The project maybe requires you to hold a brush for a minute it's a hard life
But it cleans faster and to the same standard as that 3 grand monster
thanks for the video. I can detect a small difference (improvement) but at €2700, it is an expensive solution and probably not for me.
Awesome product, and as you said it also looks good!
This was the best video of the Degritter that I have seen.
Pops and crackles are the result of static buildup. It has nothing to do with dust and dirt. Cleaning the disc will, of course, discharge the static. Dust and dirt are bad, because they force you to clean your stylus frequently, which increases that chances of accidental damage.
Wow, that’s a clueless comment. Do yourself a favor, buy a USB microscope and actually do some research before rushing for the keyboard and showing the world how ignorant you are.
For this amount of money the result is too bad. Thanks for the good review!!!
I got back into vinyl a couple of years ago. It’s funny, the pops and clicks don’t bother me as much as I thought they would. I really enjoy the cleaning and the experience of listening, I tend to pay more attention when spinning records and hear instrument parts in the music I’d missed in the past.
Great video again John. Allthough this is why I sold all my records. Despite all the labour I couldn’t stand the sometimes cracky noise of some records. I am still buying 2nd hand / new cd's (love the 80s!) or explore Roon's radio. Nice to see your Berlin footage, great city. Greetings from The Netherlands. Ronald
I think that...
1. Thank you for an honest recording of the actual results.
2. Yes, it definitely cleaned the record somewhat.
3. No, it didn't do a good job. I got better results with just a dry brush. Of course, it depends on how grimy the record was.
Cleaning does help ,but a lot of it is the pressing itself
I’ve had one since the start of my vinyl journey (and yes, I’m in the very small minority re: how much I could budget even from the start) because I knew that an Ultrasonic Cleaning Machine would be critical for the longevity of my interest in the medium, security of my investment in gear and records by minimising wear, and most importantly enjoyment of the process of listening records.
It’s an amazing product, and their Customer Service is exceptional. Price indeed requires personal justification for everyone interested but at the time of my purchase, there were not many products out there which can remove the same amount of hassle/downsides of the medium, work as well, give you back as much time, with the same build quality and service they provide. And it is a beautiful looking thing as well.
That said, whether you need something like this or not is your call. If you have a really expensive cartridge and are regularly going for audiophile pressings, UHQRs, OneSteps, Small Batches etc or originals that need to be enjoyed and kept in the best condition for decades, I’d at least recommend considering a UCM. Not just for longevity but also for operational effort. You’ll see you don’t need cleaning brushes anymore and as it’s a wet clean, it’ll also get rid of the majority of the static stored in the vinyl from initial/bad packaging.
You’ll find UCMs that do less, or in a less automated way for less money (HumminGuru), or do a similar thing and cost 2x more(Klaudio).
Vacuums/Loricrafts or anything cheaper like Spin-Clean etc work on the principle of making contact with the record surface. Even some UCMs like AudioDesk have contacting surfaces. But however well they can execute it, they always carry a risk of damaging the record in my opinion. You will either need to be super careful operating them (manual ones) and keep the contact services as clean as possible at all times. So consider the removal of that risk and the time you get back when judging its cost.
A couple of small things to note:
During cleaning, the water is not that bubbly normally, John just put a bit more cleaning fluid than they recommend by using the cap :) In the box, it comes with a pipette with markings on it for making a perfect mix.
And I’d not recommend doing what John did for demonstration purposes, as in putting in records which have that much caked debris on them. If it’s that filthy, just run record under water for a second to get the majority of the gunk washed away and then put it in DeGritter for much better results after a single clean.
Leaving no stone unturned and checking out things on the perimeter or not covered, be it a bit exotic or baseline efficient…..I totally dig that. An interesting choice in exploration here and the doorstop hack…..aces.
Aaaaaaaaaaargh ... I died at 18.32. This is my spirit typing.
I always appreciate JD reviews...but wow....my Yorkshire wallet just had a seismic tremble when I looked up the price of this wonderful machine. JD, could you review a cleaner for the budget conscious vinyl audiophiles? Something which is just as easy to use, not time consuming, but without the price that excludes the everyday mortal vinyl fan?
Exciting, suspenseful and relevant video in my view.
Dude I’m a totally witness to how much a chore it was to manually clean your records. I owned the VPI HW 17F record cleaner for years but it was too time consuming. A minimum of 15 minutes each side & since it had to be TL 4 step up cleaned (me) it took some xtra minutes both sides. The unit was noisy as hell, like a freakin’ jet engine. In 2019 I got a wild hair & desperation of wanting any more physical cleaning I purchased the Audio Desk System (ADS) Gläss cleaner, which fairly expensive but for a short while was the best on the market. I got my monies worth out of it, cleaned over 3,000 records with it. Two months after warranty ran out out it belly up. I was quite disappointed for the price of the unit $4,343.00 US I would have thought it would of lasted a lot longer. Got ahold of the US distributor & was offer a refurbished for free since the warranty had past & a new unit with full warranty for $375.00, of course I took the new unit. Now there was some upgrades to the 2022 model, the switches, it’s quieter but cleans as well as the original.
Now fast forward to today. Your video of The Degritter appears that is an excellent unit. It’s nearly the price of the ADS but with a view features & operation that would make also a great buy. One hung I notice it seems to create an active cleaning process with those very visible bubbles on the surface of the vinyl. Also having a choice of cleaning time is a great option. I could clearing hear the difference in the before & after cleanings. Thanks for sharing the point that a record cleaner will remove scratches. Also they will not make a bad pressing sounds flawless, take it from me.
Q: Why did you play the Calibre, Planet Hearth on the Technic & not the REGA w/Ortofon?
Wow 😮 nice test with the spices, was definitely a good clean.
Well, thanks 🙏 again as usual your videos are quite informative & the videography is excellent. 👍🏽
No record cleaner removes physical scratches from the vinyl. But the Degritter is most excellent at removing the tiniest particle of dust, etc.