Six Nations All Wrapped up with a pretty Bow and whole lot of Nonsense | Two Cents Gets Distracted
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- The Six Nations is over, but BS chat is just getting warmed up. This week, we cover all the happenings of the Six Nations and Super Rugby.
Tony also flips out about Human centipedes.
Grab a beer and enjoy
So guys, I’m a middle aged Irish man so have a longer memory than you. As long as I can remember, the Irish team and their fans were well respected across the world. However all teams want to progress and become winning teams. However, since doing so, I notice the world (specifically the southern hemisphere) have had a lot of negative things to say about Ireland. None of it about performance. Most of it is about our arrogance and our foreign players. Really weird, for as long as I’m a fan I’ve NEVER associated arrogance with our team, coaches or fans. Even now, no one in Ireland was talking about us being the “best team in the world”. These comments were made by an English coach and a retired welsh player. The other issue is our foreign players. We have 3 clearly NZ players, but have produced homegrown players of the year. Most of our team is Irish and where some are suggested as not, they were born of 2 Irish parents and played here since aged 5!! I don’t see that hate for any of the other home nations, who have more or as many foreign players. As far as I’m concerned, the only teams that can honestly fight that fight are South Africa and Argentina. And look at the senior professional player base of Ireland vs South Africa. However the hate is more than it’s ever been. What’s your view? Also, when you make the point or whether Ireland are on the rise or fall (compared to the other 5), Ireland had no Hanson and for the first time played without Sexton. This is a huge achievement from Ireland. In my view more questions should be asked of France who are the essentially the same team but without DuPont and N’tmack.
I wouldn't expect you to get it, or agree with it; but outside of Irish fans i'm sure there's plenty of folk who found Sexton to be a complete arrogant twat, and PoM to be a massive douchebag as well. Most of the rest of it would be predominantly driven by media personalities. But its definitely not just an English coach or retired Welshman. Obviously what gets shared outside of Ireland is clips taken out of context designed to get a rise, but some of the Irish sports shows have had a bit of drivel on them over the last handful of years.
But most of it comes down to folks wanting to take shots at a team that is really strong; as a Kiwi we're used to it, and similarly to how I wouldn't expect you to have a strong critique of the two players i've mentioned, we treated McCaw & Carter like gods no matter what they did so its for sure super one eyed.
Don't find Ireland to be arrogant at all (especially fans). If England had won as much as Ireland the past few years we'd never hear the end of it (probably want to leave the 6 Nations again) From a Wales fan
@@benaprudd thanks man. Had to laugh at the ‘England leaving the 6 nations comment! To find better opposition! 🤣 How things can quickly change. Who was that again? RFU? Eddie Jones? Sounds like the type of thing Jones would say.
Would you say about Ireland that the other teams have learned to nullify the Irish game a bit and that personnel changes on the Irish team have to bed in to be more cohesive?
In some ways I'm glad people are starting to write off Ireland. The hype was way overboard and I don't think it suits us to be favourites.
Don't you dare call us favourites. We don't want the title either. 😠
16:20 Since Mark asked for the correction, here it is: In 2013 Italy finished 4th, with Wales in 1st, Ireland in 5th and France picking up the wooden spoon(Shows how much things can change in a decade). A pretty sizeable caveat is that Italy finished 4th with 2 wins 3 losses in 2013, whereas this year was their best ever results return with 2 wins 1 draw 2 losses.
Good bit of info! So better result but worse record!
as an Irish fan very happy we won, sure it seems to have started to diminish at the end but it's a good sign that we can say that and still win. Just hoping we get some more new blood in and working.
I do wonder how much a difference there will be with the new attacking coach Andrew Goodman getting time to develop the attack in new ways.
Ireland Scotland was one of the most boring and frustrating games of rugby i've seen in a long time
Jesus it was rough, and I'm a bloody ireland fan...
Same here,best thing about it was the Scottish defence @@Keeks749
I liked the "here's how we should have finished out the England match" part of the game
Awful game, watch Squidge rugby to see it explained
I agree, as an Irish fan we didn’t perform our best the final two rounds. I don’t think you’re unfair at all, albeit we suffered a fair few injuries to key personnel (James Ryan, Hansen, JOB, Keenan). It might also be good timing to bring in Andrew Goodman as our new attack coach to freshen things up. Regardless, still very proud of the lads ☘️ looking forward to the summer clash with the Boks! Also, congrats to England and France for a cracking final match, and to Italy for a brilliant end to the tournament 💪
Goodman has a job with leinster.
Ireland's performances definitely diminished towards the end of the tournament but it wasnt just the first game that was a quality performance IMO. The performance against Italy in the second round, a team against which every other team struggled, was really high level. Cruised in on momentum a bit after that
I honestly don’t think Ireland even got out of 2nd gear against wales England and Scotland and it bit them against England.z
The Irish team were definitly flat in that Scottish game. Maybe hard to raise themselves after losing the Grand Slam plus the Scottish defense was the best I have ever seen it in forever. The whole 6N seemed a typical post RWC tournament...seen it before....not the greatest rugbywise.
With Porters try both Beirne and Baird are on side when the ball is passed then stop they're run. The Scottish defense actually plays them as they think they're going to latch. Basically they were on side and tricked the Scottish defenders into taking themselves out of the defensive line.
I thought that it's about rugby ffs
You say Contepomi hasn't coached at top level but neither had Farrell when he took over Ireland.
Think irelands problem is personnel. Think one of the only criticisms of Farrell is his lack of rotation. Definitely told in the World Cup. Yes we blooded a few new players, but is there an argument to start our bench against wales, Scotland and Italy? Our 5/6 forwards on the bench are absolutely fantastic so there’s little to no risk playing Ryan, Conan, kelleher, Bealham etc. I don’t agree with giving away cheap caps, but there was several players in the training squad 33 that didn’t play a minute - needs to be utilised better
Agree
24:54 Yep you’re being unfair. Ireland are probably already favourites for 2025 six nations.
Italy's best-ever finishing position in the Six Nations is 4th, which they managed in 2007 and 2013. However, 2 wins, 1 draw and 2 defeats is Italy's best-ever set of results in a Six Nations campaign, so this technically is Italy's best-ever Six Nations performance despite only finishing 5th. On the question you asked about what the permutations of Italy beating France would have made on the final Six Nations standings, it would have made a difference for Italy's final finishing position but not France's. If Garbisi's last-minute penalty does go through the posts and Italy win the match 16-13, Italy would now finish above Scotland in 4th place (13 points to 12 points). However, France would still finish 2nd in the 6 Nations table after now gaining a losing bonus point from the Italy match, ultimately finishing with the same points total as England (14) but still having a better points difference than Steve Borthwick's team (+3 to -5).
Ireland are a bit tired. They still won. I don't see what the big deal is and am really looking forward to July.
Agree. I think Andy Farrell needs to bring some of the U20's from last three years and test them out. Best way to keep high levels in the senior team is competitiveness with new guys pushing.
Maybe bring some of the U20's to SA tour this summer.
I think having to play our underperforming captain cost us the GS. It forced the 6/2 split and then his stupid yellow card meant Baird was only on for 10 mins in the 1 pt loss to England. POMs pr machine is working in overdrive for the last few seasons. His stats are apalling and he just walks around the pitch. The fact that he played at the level expected v Scotland is all down to the fact that he has been told it's over but he wants to stay on. There is a reason munster took the captaincy from him and offered no contract. I was gobsmacked when he got the captaincy and in the end it cost us the big prize.
25:45 Ireland won’t miss POM as much as you might think.
Contampmi had assistant coach exp with Leinster as far as places go that’s a hell of a place to get trained. also I wouldn’t say Ireland are declining you have to remember that they Have a rookie fly half who is learning their backs were disjointed because they had injuries to Gary Ringrose Mack Hanson and Hugo Keenan they are also bringing through players to.
I'm with ya Tony on the human centipede rucks, I like the idea of no more players joining once "use it" I'd called.
Also, I feel like Ireland have been well structured, and that's won them games but they've looked a bit sluggish in attack, they're gonna struggle against SA
Ireland certainly weren't at their best but did we really need to be to win this years championship?
Well done to the Men in Green ☘️🏆
Note - England lost the same number of games as Italy, and finished with a negative points difference 😬
Canes and Reds looking good.
I agree re Super rugby finals format - make it top 6 .... And maybe bring in a 'bowl' comp for bottom 6??
Pity the Wahs lost, but how about that sensational final try by Coates!?! 👌
If you guys like King Lear you should check out “Ran” (1985) It’s one one the best looking films ever. Directed by legendary Japanese filmmaker, Akira Kurosawa, the story is transposed to 16th century Japan. It’s a proper epic with some incredible battle sequences. It really is a banger!
On dark Welsh patches: the 99 and 07 World Cups both came with bleak outcomes. A Welsh schoolmate described them as "worst worlc cup hosts in history", which, by results, they were, until England in '15. Squidge's podcast on the Fiji game in '07 also provides the sorry tale of quite what a miserable job exit the coach had afterwards, after being hung out to dry by the union.
33:44 interesting point. NZ are AMAZING when comes to the tri nations or rugby championship, and they have a hectic travel regime in those competitions. However, it isn’t easy to win a 5 game tournament every year. How would NZ manage? Who knows?!! Maybe this new world league will shed some light!!
I agree that while i am happy we won i have come to expect more than a result. I never understood fans that won but were disappointed in the performance but that's where Ireland are now which is testament to their success. Some of the old guard are finishing this year but there is a lot of talent coming through when you look at the U20s in recent years
We are turning into all blacks fans a little. Winning and complaining about not winning by more.
Can't agree more with the guy with the hat on the Use It call... No more joining players, get the ball out in 5 secs or it becomes open play.
Again. I need to stop watching this in the morning because I crave beer so much and I still have a full workday to get through.
Comment of the episode: "The Mongols like to fuck."
Tony ranting about the NRL is like me ranting about the NFL to my South African friends -- no one gives a f**k.
About France you have to remember the two red and 3 yellow cards in the fist 3 games, plus quite a lot of important players missing, aldritt and wardi getting injured didn't help either. So for instance ireland and italy may have looked a little better than they actually were playing more than half those games with an extra player. Still ireland deserved the win and italy were one kick on the post away from getting one massive upset. But despite the defensive obvious problem, i think France showed that when they have 15 players on the pitch and their 2nd row, they're still a serious team even without dupont and ntamack. I think scotland missed a chance, France and England will probably be a lot better next year, italy will keep getting better ( i agree quesada is a great coach) and i don't buy the idea that ireland are on the way down. I think it was the year for Scotland with England rebuilding and a depleted French team but they didn't deliver
Tones, please speak into the mic, i noticed it last week and its the same this week. You often sound like youre very very far away. Great pod as always lads, keep em comin ❤
On the caterpillar rucks: wasn't there a mishegoss about players counting back from 5 being unsporting? If so, ridiculous, though in a combat sport where by definition no-one is wearing a watch, not sure how they can tell. I guess the tiem requirement goes down as bad law, as it's unenforceable? Finding a standard that required the ball to be played as soon as it became playable ought to up the game time, though whether anyone actually wants that is another matter.
Hey Tony i really enjoyed your series "Why [Kantry] will definitely and will definitely not win the WC 2023"
Got any more novel content in the pipeline?
On Tony's headstone: Very Different Tone. Keep it up ya mad thing
The rant about use-it; caterpillar rucks are like a league ruck just with 6 people and it takes 15 seconds rather than 5.
Owen who?
Cracking video guys.
Delightful segue from Ireland's slight decline to Macbeth within 10 seconds. Where else would you get that?
Unique chat if nothing else 😂
Two Cent seem very confy in that Italian suit. Great my fella!
Been wearing Italian gear a lot recently mate! It's great ;)
Kia can fly Mark, that's the Kakapo you are thinking of.
Man yeah that's true 😂
213 italy finish 4th
Screening runners are an abomination in today’s game. There’s so much interference with defenders that doesn’t get regarded as obstruction because it doesn’t open a hole. What it does do is prevent the defensive system being able to slide. I can understand fixing defenders with decoy runners who check their run after passing the ball carrier but so many teams run decoys on a 45 degree angle and they get infront of the ball carrier and shield them for 10m.
Edit: to fix this maybe we allow runners he get infront of the ball carrier to be tackled?
Lions shop window won England the game.
Same reason Scotland showed up.
Hats off to them both…. They will be needed.
Glad we don’t have to do it all by ourselves
😮
I have always thought NO ref truly understands what the fuck is happening with the front rows in a scrum because NO ref has actually played there (or ANY forward position). They know nothing of The Dark Arts peculiar to that ‘other’ universe that is forward play. Brilliant pod dudes 😂😂👍
Bone
Steve Hansen was rhe the Wales coach when they last got the wooden spoon
Wales were whitewashed this time
I love how Mark was dropping the f bombs towards the end of the episode
Italy winning in France would be 2th in the table....ciao
For Mark Lyon is more Center East than South of France and not an rugby territory like the Pays Basque and Les Landes !
And as another example of a great crowd for a rugby game look at the U18 friendly game France V England from this week with almost 5k attendance => Crunch #m18 - #under18 : France Rugby vs England Rugby
Good bit of geography for me ;)
“Stupid sexy Flanders”
Italy finished 3rd in 2007 and 2013
26:05 it’s from Henry 5th.
27:46 I bet most Scot’s want Townsend gone. That was the feeling I got after the Ireland match. He’s taken them far enough. He could be like the Schmidt of Ireland. Build on it.
Schmidt won grand slams and 6Ns. He won 2 H cups with the majority of the side. .. maybe you are thinking of Eddie o sullivan but even he got some triple crowns and 2nd place finishes.
@@daithipol yeah fair point. What I mean is that a coach will take you so far and then it’s time to move on and build on that progress
Roleplays!!! So good 😂😂
great show guys, as usual
Ireland felt flat? They won four out of five games and only lost one by one point. In the last two six nations thy have won 9 out of 10 games. Flat?
Did you not listen to the whole podcast before commenting?
Ah good old tony, writing off ireland. A bit like he did with the italians no less than 3 weeks ago. Good man tony
On Ioane's try, Pani tripped the Welsh defender. The try should have been voided.
Two of Welsh try was double movement, they should be voided.