Yeah! I can't believe how many people talk about bikes but don't actually ride on there! I have one bike, that I ride quite frequently. There are people on there that claim to have many bikes and never ride. Lol
A lot of it is the youngins. They don’t own a bike but own a full on race sim set up. And they’re probably big gear heads in their own right but they’re too young to understand there are things they don’t know. The older you get the dumber you realize you are, and we call that wisdom.
I don't think this stops at r/motorcycles. It's a mob mentality issue that exists everywhere. Once an opinion has enough supporters it is seen as fact. It becomes science by consensus instead of science by fact.
"The science is settled: all doctors and scientists agree... because the doctors and scientists who disagreed were silenced or stripped of their titles."
I honestly feel like Fortnine is the *only* Motorcycle channel on TH-cam, that doesn't do this boring "lemme just ride my motorcycle and blabber on for pointlessly long minutes" type of videos.
revzillia does good reviews and occasional long form content. but I can't think of anyone other than those two that have consistent high production quality
Trying to have a discussion on r/motorcycles taught me to never bother trying to have a discussion on r/motorcycles. "Old school" web forums like Advrider are generally *far* better sources of information.
Agree...Redit on the whole I have avoided for the most part since it's inception in the mid 2000's because it has always been a bit of a negative flame fest space every time I have perused it. Be it gaming content, off road content, or moto content. I have avoided twitter/x for the same reasons. They are just not reliable sources of information because I see more spinless arguments and needless negativity than I see constructive posts.
As a rider, pilot, and professional mechanic that is very active on reddit, it seems to me that the general subreddits have the worst advice since that's where everyone starts out, and you see the Dunning-Kruger effect in full force, but as people have been riding, flying, or fixing longer they find a niche, so when you get into the type specific subreddits for KLR, Airheads, or aircraft maintenance you have enough experienced members to keep disinformation lower.
yeah you got to go to your specific vehicle model group/forum. thats how you get the most amount of experts on your specific vehicle and can get the most accurate and trust worthy information as there will always be experts that have worked and owned those vehicles for a long time and are experienced enough to understand what problems and what pros the vehicle has. allot of the time when something goes wrong it's a known reliablity issue and veterans of that model will know that it's a usual fail point and can tell you to check the most basic and obvious causes first. tell a general motorcycle page that your FZ6n front sprocket came lose and they will blame the previous owner but say it in a fz6n group and they will just point out that it's a common problem among the S1 because the factory locking washer is crap.
That's an interesting observation. I like it! I suspect it's not _just_ the Dunning-Kruger effect, but the expert effect as well... where a true expert will be very reluctant to state broad generalizations (I broadly generalize, lol), so they're either forced to write long articles to specify sufficiently to make it clear what they're actually saying-only then to get lost in the noise much of the time, I'd imagine-or they move on toward narrower niche groups where it's already implied that they're only talking about the specific thing that narrower subreddit or other group is about.
@barefootalien I've not heard that called the expert effect, but it makes sense. It pairs well with Brandolini's law: the amount of energy needed to debunk misinformation is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it. I'll often ignore misinformation on the general subreddits because it'll take several paragraphs to provide context needed to correct the BS, so unless it's something dangerous or they seem to genuinely want to learn I'll just keep scrolling.
@@ERusstbucket Yeah, for me it depends on my mood. Sometimes I do feel like typing out the correction with all the context, to at least put the real information out there. But then the same question gets asked a week later, and a week after that, and a week after that, instead of people doing a quick search to see if their question has already been answered, and I just get tired of it.
This is hilarious to me because I am banned on r/Motorcycles and they wouldn't appeal it because "They don't hand out p*ssy passes" 😆 The moderators are wild.
At the end of the video ryan made sure to say that the data was not a study to prove anything, just a study interesting for people to have an idea of how those studys work.
The fact that KTM had such a good score should have been a giveaway that the data didn't actually translate to reliability. XD (tbh i have no clue what im talking about.)
Reddit and Twitter are filled with misery and misery likes company. I used to try to post positive things, but "Doomposters" would always find something to get angry about. Reddit in particular has a group of people I call, "likes to talk about problem, but never wants to solve it, since if they solve it, then they can't talk about it" that applies to a disturbing amount of subreddits.
Wow, didn't think I'd see you here lol Honestly yeah, anger is like fire in that the more of an echo chamber (closed off and full of fuel and heat) it's in, the more dangerous it is.
Reddit works as a hive mind. The idea of the downvote makes everyone Karma-Whore fake internet points and this will make people learn and repeat the official statement from each subreddit.
There are definitely some great communities on there. Fortunately you can filter some of that garbage out. But I agree there is quite a bit of toxicity. There is plenty on YT comments as well. Unfortunately people just can't be respectful to one another especially when it comes to sharing/being unified in a passion. edit: and it usually seems to be the "main" communities that are the worst. Like r/motorcycles being the broader community vs like he mentioned r/klr650. I usually try to find the smaller more niche communities and it typically makes a huge difference.
It’s definitely a fucking cesspool in a so many different ways. Fuck Reddit. It really sucks that so much of it sucks though, because I actually really like a few subs and have learned a lot from them. But yeah, as a whole Reddit is so fucked off
This is a problem with reddit and the internet in general. Some people think that something they do will work for everyone but have no concept that other people may want different things or that other ways of doing things can be perfectly fine
And the sad part about that particular F9 video is that Ryan spesifically states that their sample size is too small to draw conclusions from. Edit: just proving your point about video endings 😁
I followed FortNine for a while. Ryan seems like a good guy. Very entertaining, but I didn't always agree with him. But if I said anything, LOOK OUT! The problem with appealing to authority is that it's a logical fallacy - the moment you put someone on a pedestal as an infallible arbiter of truth, you've stopped looking for it. You're not interested in doing the work to know you're right, you only care to be perceived as right.
@@lfcv55 That can be confirmation bias, but it can also be "disregarding bad sources". I kinda agree with og here, the fort9 channel does do great entertainment, and sometimes also offer great information, but often their more scientific stuff is to simplified to still be truthfull. Topics like engine breakin, motor oil, motorcycle geometry, are such complex topics that it takes years to understand for a professional engineer, it's just not possible to explain that in a ten minute video and then draw some conclusion from it. And to even try is a bad idea in my opinion. As much as I like the fort9 channel, I think some videos should have rather not been published because the general public doesn't realise how nuanced some topics are and that the video can't just be taken as some kind of fact.
Read the comments section under any Fortnine video and it's endless cult-like boot-licking worship of video production talent. It. Gets. So. Old. Don't forget that every video F9 does goes through a barrage of scripting, editing, proofing, cleaning, and so forth before a final publish. His videos are not Vlog style, raw, uncut. This can create the idea that someone, or some people, are much more authoritative, knowledgeable, polished, perfect, classy, irrefutable, etc. than your everyday human being. Sure he has to do a lot of research, arrange stuff in a compelling story-telling sort of way, try to be humorous and attention grabbing, and get publish the final cut. It's just totally unrealistic to assume that all of this happens rather seamlessly or because Ryan or his small crew are just so much motorcycle, science, engineering, mechanical genius. Moral: _USE YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT, THINK FOR YOURSELVES, BE REALISTIC, PRACTICE EMOTIONAL MATURITY._ The equivalent (to some degree) would be to assume Jeremy Clarkson is an automotive authority. No. He's just a slick automotive entertainer who worked well with a media team to spin a compelling video.
This is like saying you dont watch/enjoy top gear because the the tests and challenges arent realistic, scientific, or necessarily meaningful. Like... thats not the point at all... you watch fortnine because hes the clarkson of motorcycles, not because you agree or think he is right all the time. Maybe check your ego... and try to just enjoy the show.
I'm 100% out of the loop on this whole reddit drama, but nothing beats ROUND TABLE PIZZA!!!! Pepperoni and sausage..matter of fact I think I'll go there today for their buffet special. HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!
I have been riding for more than 55 years, I’ve never or ever claimed being a pro, but 1 thing I can attest to is that 40 of those 55 years there was no internet and many of us never had a problem with riding, and we managed to keep our bikes running so we can enjoy the rides, problem today is that there is too many self proclaimed masters of riding and way too many naive pork chops ready to believe anything and everything with little or no cred. my favourite pizza is always mushroom, green peppers, pepperoni and italien sausage with extra cheese..😂
Like you say, Ryan at FortNine is entertaining as hell! I remember that engine oil video. I' m an older guy who's new to motorcycling but I'm also an engineer. My thought was - if you're buying a Royal Enfield you'd better not gaffe off that first service! Probably want to be more careful to break-in properly, too! I think his videos on fuel conditioners, such as Sta-bil and Sea Foam, are more informative as are his videos on chain cleaning and lubing. I respect his knowledge and experience, but he's also one guy. You can just as easily find people telling you something completely different - and not even necessarily be wrong!
That was my thought exactly! The learning I pulled from that oil video was "Oh boy! Better not skip that break-in oil change!!" because clearly that's what's being cleaned by the oil if that's what the study said haha
What an awesome take! I absolutely agree and to the credit for both the Revzilla boys and F9, their videos often leave the scope to make one’s own decisions on the topic. The oil video was a fun “huh” moment for me, definitely a motivator to change my own oil 😂. Whilst the sample was too small to draw anything from it, it could serve as an interesting indicator of a single small aspect of quality control in the building process of a motorbike, not it’s overall quality/reliability. One thing my dad has taught me is, if you are ever in doubt about something mechanical, see what the people that designed and built it have to say first ;)
Likewise also an engineer... it's a single datapoint. It's a valid datapoint, but only one. Does RE make good bikes, yes. Does HD make good bikes, yes. How people want to gauge that is up to them, but at the end of the day, we have nearly every motorcycle brand out there making great bikes... I just think if folks do the proper maintenance (which most don't/won't) they would have less to worry about regardless of brand of bike they own.
I mean right off the bat, on the break-in video and amount of metal released to the oil... assuming the experiment was conducted to the highest possible standard and we could take the relative positioning of those figures as gospel: why would we assume any number is better or worse than any other number? The engine is breaking in. Sliding surfaces are INTENTIONALLY wearing against each other until they are in optimal contact. Therefore the correct amount of metal released will be specific to each individual engine. So even if those numbers were perfect, they still tell us precisely nothing.
I love Spite, and have been cheering him on to my bike buds. Yammy Noob has a huge following, and gives out sketchy advice. Spite has very intimate knowledge and dealings with him, and his name didn't even come up. Ryan gives out reasonable advise for the most part and gets called out; but Yammy gets a pass? WTF? Ryan was in the thumbnail tho, so there's that.
@@billparker8954I think that's because F9 is seen as far more legitimate than Yams. F9 takes on a number of various topics with a decently scientific-based approach, while Yams channel is mostly bad takes and "5 best motorcycles for new riders" videos
The reddit hive mind is real. Any time i see someone consider an older starter bike like a ninja 250, it seems like everyone comes in to say theyre going to die immediately because it doesn't have abs
I bought an ‘88 ninja 250 new and just sold it seven years ago. That bike was a blast and I wish I’d kept it. I’m 56 years old now and ride a BMW F800 GSA.
"if it's not over 650cc you will get bored/outgrow it within a month" That mentality is my pet peeve and I see it a LOT. People need to understand bikes are built with a purpose in mind, the same bike that is perfect for 10 minute commutes in the city isn't going to be so great for a 8+ hour day touring or a 3 hour canyon run.
As a hardware engineer, I recommend always following the break in procedure. The engineers that wrote it have broken in more test motors than you can imagine.
Even if they didn't, a motor rarely will last less time or work worse if you follow the break-in procedure. If you follow some half-baked moron's idea then there's a good chance you cause oil consumption or some other issue and could ruin the bike.
Just joking, I've been wrenching on bikes @ dealerships for 38 years, and riding since '82. We all know this is just common sense. If anything, taking it slow allows one to get used to that brand new bike, so it isn't totalled in 14 miles (have seen this).
Any ICE motor should have a some sort of break in procedure. Hell, I still sit in my car and wait till it warms up to temp before going anywhere. It’s only 4 years old and I live in FL, but still! 😅….. oh, Favorite pizza is pepperoni or buffalo chicken!
I don't really think this is a r/motorcycles issue but moreso an internet issue. Once a community becomes large enough it will inevitably fall into people mainly just arguing and shouting each other in some weird circlejerk. Its why most of the car stuff I interact with is from smaller communities. Favourite pizza is probably meat feast (mainly the ones with less chicken)
I agree, from my observation, as well. Once an online community reaches critical mass, people don't feel like their voices are as heard anymore. They just get louder and louder.
I agree with both statements. I joined Spites discord to support him on his new venture. I met some cool people and got to talk with Spite about guitars, which we shared a similar passion for heavy guitars. I couldn't find any open motorcycle training in my area and someone went out of their way and found me one. A little further than I would have liked, but I got it done and now have a license thanks to that guy. If you are the fine gentleman that helped me book a course in Lansing, thank you. I left shortly after being called a racist. I do miss having some people to talk about bikes with, but no thank you. The internet is full of toxicity.
@@njgfpv3696 I was also part of Spite's Discord and There were enough jerks that I left. No disrespect to Spite, but I got absolutely zero value from being part of it.
The tests are accurate, the results are too, but the mistake is the same mistake everyone does: Making a wrong conclusion with the correct test. Like you said, it's not their fault. They never conclude "therefor, this brand is the best", they only say "this is the one who came on top". Your take is completely right in my opinion. You are not saying they are wrong, just that you have to take everything with a grain of salt and not jump to conclusions.
Im a conpletely new rider (dont event have a motorcycle yet), so I've asked a few questions on r/motorcycles. And while i have gotten helpful answer, there is a lot of people that act like the questions I asked are the most obvious things in the world, and that I'm incredibly stupid for having to ask.
The oil particulate test was interesting in what it might imply (way too small of a sample). However, there are so many other factors that will influence engine longevity. For example, lower quality metallurgy will lead to earlier failures.
Oh god, the subreddits that are solely focused on hating something are wild. How do people have the mental energy to spend their free time discussing something they hate?
I used to use Reddit but it eventually felt like it turned into a circle jerk of edgy young adults so I deleted my account, along with Facebook, instagram and Snapchat. And as for pizza I love pretty much all of it. A good thin crust anything is usually the way to go.
Yeah, I left Reddit a while ago, and I'm glad I did. It was so toxic, it was getting me down. r/motorcycles was especially bad. Aggressive know-nothings would attack and pile on to anyone expressing a opinion based on actual knowledge. I like supreme pizza. I bet if I said that on reddit, people would call me an ignorant POS and a bad person.
Good thing is that the classics still hold up all the resources you need as a beginner... Twist of the wrist video and books, Hurt Report, state safety class and materials, etc. Some of the info has changed for parts of those old resources but as a starting point they will carry you to be a fantastic rider with valuable info.
I was looking at a reddit thread comparing the KLX300 to the FE350s and there were multiple people attacking OP for even asking the question, saying he didn't know anything and that if he did he wouldn't be comparing them because they're so different.
That subreddit is a microcosm of the motorcycle community. Let’s face it, most people riding motorcycles don’t know shit about motorcycles and barely know how to ride. Judging by what I see on the road, about 1% of motorcycles are skilled at the craft. Most people who ride don’t ride every day, aren’t doing trips, never do another training course after they get their license, never done a track day, never done drills in a parking lot, and the list goes on. That subreddit reflects exactly that.
The question is, do you consider yourself part of the 1%? This is not a dig. It's the same thing as the first snow fall and everyone comes into work saying "No one else knows how to drive in the snow!" As long as there is a conception that there is a scale that others should live up to, not recognizing that we're all in the same continuum and may actually be worse at something other than the criteria that you list than a rote beginner, kind of illustrates Spite's comments. Just saying.
In the spirit of honest debate, not Reddit style bashing, I disagree with this common definition that to be a good rider you have to be a racer and a trick rider. You have to be doing track days and pushing the envelope and leaning way over. Like saying every car driver needs to be taking NASCAR classes and doing track days and pushing there auto to the limit. It's just as valid to be a rider who likes to casually ride a motorcycle to go places, and see new things....at reasonable speeds on a 350 or 650cc. He/She doesn't really need to be able to scrape knee on the track or do figure 8s in a parking lot. Just like car drivers don't need to be able to do donuts or drift. If all you do is ride at or below the speed limit, make turns at reasonable speeds and be able to swerve and emergency brake that is just fine
@@juanpablosanchezaveleyra6454 but am I wrong? Just because people have other priorities doesn’t mean I’m putting people down. I’m an instructor and spend at least one weekend a month “helping” new riders. What about you snowflake?
I love the critical thinking and scientific reasoning, Spite. We need more of it. Any system with only positive feedback is inherently unstable. You need negative feedback to get the system back in check. Chicago deep dish; spicy Italian sausages.
Vegetarian with Beef, Feta and extra onions . Never been to Reddit, But I do know that Ryan has always been great at supplying references in his Vids for all of the data / info that he uses. And given his high educational background, it's great that he can turn it into something funny and informative, ( with or without innuendo ).
One of the things I think people also miss about the engine oil is that it only really tells us about manufacturing quality it has little to do with quality control and nothing to do with design or engineering quality.
Reddit is a pit of toxic misery, I tried to use it once, that lasted about 5 days :D It's why I prefer finding people on here, since people actually ride and I can gauge their personality a little before meeting up with them. Reddit, I dunno, I dislike people being rude to people for no reason, and the moderators in particular on r/motorcycles are.......wonderful(dripping with sarcasm)
I agree with you about r/motorcycles. I never realized how toxic it was until I responded to a question about what gear should be worn while riding. I felt I was a pretty cautious riding in that I always wear boot, jeans, gloves and a helmet when I ride my Goldwing. I wear a good jacket when the temperature is below ~ 75 and a modular helmet when the temperature is below ~ 66. When it is warmer, I wear a half-helmet. I thought I was being reasonably safe. Little did I know how insanely risky I was being by wearing so little gear. The fine folks at r/motocycles let me know that I should be wearing head to toe racing leathers and a full face helmet and gloves every time I ride. If I wore anything less, then I was almost certain to risk horrible disfigurement or death. P.S. - Thanks Spite for making your Goldwing videos. They are what convinced me to buy my Goldwing.
Yeah that sounds right. Those people are insane with their full leather racing suits. Definitely not for me. I am not going race mode to go on a nice casual ride.
@@rm25088 sometimes I ride in shorts and t shirt on the road. off road I usually have boots, knee pads, and pants. always wear a helmet and gloves. but I don't know I've been watching motorcycle crashes for 3 days straight now due to being laid up after surgery and I'm starting to see the point in the motorcycle specific gear. at least Moto jeans and a leather jacket. maybe boots and better gloves. there's some crashes I've seen where people had gear, got into major wrecks and were fine, others no gear and and completely messed up. one that stuck out was a girl that lost her leg from getting hit from behind by her husband (also on a bike). she only had jeans on. another guy took the same hit and broke his femur but was able to keep his leg. he had a full race suit on. both were being stupid and riding like dumb dumbs though. it seems a lot of people be loosing feet and fingers when they take a glancing blow to an oncoming car with just normal shoes there might be a point to all the safety nazis out there.
@@scrapmanindustries I have riding high top shoes which are fantastic, Armored hoody, gloves, helmet and that is all I wear. I want to get a pair of riding jeans and I will. Just the prices are ridiculous for 1 pair. We take the risk every time we go out. Hitting a car doing 80 miles per hour, none of that gear will save you. But no way in hell am I dressing up in one of those full leather racing suits. I don't ride like that anymore and see no point unless I am on a track which will never happen. In 20 years I have crashed once and it was my fault. But I accept the risk.
@@rm25088 yeah I was looking at pants styled more like you see them guys on the big adventure bikes wearing and the ones I was wanting are like $250 for one pair. $300 for a bat man leather jacket and like $300 for the boots that I think would fit my riding style. $150 for better gloves. so it would be $1k just for 1 set of decent pieced together gear. not including the helmet that I already have. freaking nuts. I didn't look into the riding jeans yet but I'm hoping they're cheaper. I don't plan on going head on with a car but I do feel like I might go for a slide. I crashed a lot off road and a few on road. each time I got lucky and my on road crashes were nothing really. the one time I rear ended a car that suddenly stopped. went from 70mph down to about 30mph when I hit. rear wheel picked up I squeezed the crap out of the bike with my knees and let my hips pivot to one side to loose momentum, set her back down. the only reason I put a foot down with that one is I killed the engine somehow. didn't even dent the car. had a few low speed low sides I was able to walk out of without my upper half hitting the ground. but one day I think them armored riding pants might come in handy.
this is less a specific problem of reddit and more a general problem of the internet... back in the day if you were new to motorcycles and had questions you'd ask a rider you know and trust in person... chances are they won't tear you apart like a bunch of strangers you'll never meet behind a screen will... that level of disassociation empowers people to say and do things to others that they'd never say or do in person, and its manufacturing a serious problem in how society relates to one another
I think there are always bad apples, Ryan gives good info as far as I’ve experienced. I wouldn’t blame Ryan for people extending the truth past the breaking point. And I’m pretty sure every time he does a test like that he lays out that it’s experimental and results are just the conclusion he came to. What’s cool, is the TH-cam community opening up dialogue! Let’s do more of this!
Ryan has some good info out there but he also has some misleading info as he just some times don't actually understand what he is really talking about. there are many things out here that sound good and work on papper but when it comes to reality things work a bit differently and that's where he some times falls flat. for example his video about carbs vs EFI where he don't actually know what kind of technology bikes have and therefore underestimates the EFI allot because from his basic understanding of it it seems allot worse and simplistic than what it really is in the real life application.
@@savagememes873 the first step to know what your talking about, is to never act like your an expert. I don’t care if you been doing the same menial task daily for a decade, there’s always more to it
Like the video he did comparing an ebike "enduro" to a heavy DRZ400 with street tyres. He has the best intentions but I think sometimes he manipulates the test to give the outcome they wanted for the video. Do the same test against a real lightweight enduro bike and it wouldn't have the same outcome. Either way I think the videos have dropped in quality since they started pumping them out every few weeks
Yo Spite, you seem very rational and educated. That is probably not the case with the broader population and least of all, people taking advice from R slash motorcycle. Me personally, I use multiple sources before making a decision. So far my moto experience has been amazing with negligible setbacks. Thanks for the video man, be safe.
A lot of the information passed around is obsolete. 40yrs ago, you did need to scrub in new tires. 40yrs ago, you did cause "hot spots" on a motor if it wasn't run at varied RPMs. But today's tires use different processes and materials and the stuff used to release a tire from the molds turns into a powder after a bit, long before it gets out of the manufacturers factory. And the quality of the metals used in engines, the smelting processes and the milling make it highly unlikely you would get a "hot spot". And today's motorcycle shops tend to have one trained and certified master mechanic who is expected to keep his eye on five or six kids that don't understand what a scraper ring is, let alone why one bike has only two rings and the other has three. I think that is where a lot of bike problems come from. Supreme as well.
Pretty sure honda isnt recommending an ancillary break in procedure on their new macines just because we used to do it due to lower tolerances. Youd know a global corporation would save the money in paper for the manual if they could... tooling isnt perfect, and manufacturing isnt either, break ins are just a safe bet to make sure everythings running as it should. Do a gear swap on a 4wd truck, itll recommend a 500 mile break in period... part of that is to make sure youve got the gear lash set right so you dont completely destroy your brand new componentry...
i think that the engine oil video was just as much if not more about the quality of oil put in by the manufacturer and how clean the production process was rather than if the engine will fail or not
Pepperoni, sausage and mushrooms. I try to take all these videos as just recommendations and not as pure truth. Life is full of variables even if we follow the same path we still step on different ground.
Meat lovers supreme with green pepper as the only veggie! Exactly right on your comment. It’s impossible to do the exact same thing with two exact engines because there’s no such thing. That’s why they have specs and tolerances. There are no two engines or bikes exactly the same.
I don’t care for pizza anymore. For every example or test proving or disproving something there is always an example that contradicts. For every broken Harley there is someone claiming to have ridden 500k miles without burning a single ounce of oil. Zack, Ari, and Ryan are great at what they do but everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Large, thin crust, cooked crispy, pepperoni, mushrooms, tomato, green olives, sprinkle of oregano. Pepperoni on top so it gets crispy. You make great content. Honestly it feels more like hanging with a buddy than the tv show feel of f9 and Ari, Zach. Merry Christmas
Every motorcycling sub is similar and faces the same issues. The number of people that quote these different videos without understanding what the videos are actually saying is incredible. The redline run in vs babying it was a great one. The end gap increase on the rings told us all that we needed to know. Edit: BBQ beef
Local pizza place has one they call a Windsor. It's diced pancetta, pepperoni and bacon. The meat comes out fantastically crispy when it's diced up like that. So good
I love how once they were like "crash bars are for old farts", but at the same time defend function over form. Yeah, cuz people actually put crash bars on their bikes because it will look good. I'm talking your everyday standard crashbar, not necesseraly bungkings (I have never owned one, so I can't say if they are just for show or actually give some protection)
I've never "broken in" a motorcycle engine. I've just followed the oil change schedule in the manual and ride the speed limit and I've never had any problem.
Pineapple and jalapeño. The thing about F9 is he'll generally give you everything he's using to back up his conclusions. That way I can decide if he's "right", or (like the oil video) it's not the whole picture. Or like the "ride like a motocop" video just not how I want to ride. But if you watch them as entertainment-plus-conclusion you miss all the nuance.
There was the video where he talked about a mid eighties Honda VT500 as being one of the worst motorcycles ever made. Not even close buddy. Or the one where he claimed that the beauty of a V-twin was that it minimized vibration. Have you even ridden a Harley? But all in all I do enjoy his content.
Great video. I’ve never used Reddit and dumped Facebook years ago. Even TH-cam sometimes people are ready to jump down your throat before thinking about things first. Some of these examples you have given are perfect examples of how you can make stats say what ever you want. People have seriously lost the ability to think for themselves. The key to buying anything is research from numerous sources and then make your own decision based on your findings.
Completely agree with everything you said. The problem with internet - it gives a too many people with limited understanding or knowledge a platform to spout complete garbage. Favourite pizza - I have a few but Chicken Bruschetta is always good.
It was at this moment that Spite was recognized as one of the adults in the room blessed with the faculty of reason, composure, and more than a little common sense. I recently re-watched the movie Idiocracy and I am saddened to report that all of it came true. Sausage, mushroom, green pepper, extra garlic.
I’ve never used Reddit on purpose, because for the most part people are extremely uneducated and over opinionated on things they know little about, and a place like Reddit exasperates that fact.
That is very true, and it's not just Reddit that exacerbates that - it's the entire internet. Trump said "Fake News" and everybody jumps to the Fuhrer's command. Yes you should exercise intelligent cynicism with the news, but very little of it is factually dishonest. You should also exercise intelligent cynicism with what you read or hear on the internet.
Supreme WITH mushrooms! Many videos are great references. As you would say, your results may vary. I have learned many things from those guys and you over the years. Sometimes, what to do, sometimes, what not to do. Thanks for posting.
Hey bud, lurker of your channel because I feel that you’re one of the only “motorcycle content” channels that has content about people who actually ride and don’t get so caught up in speadsheets and specs. I agree with your take. Reddit in general sucks until you get into the very specific subreddits where it still sucks but has sprinkles of super useful and helpful information. Keep it up buddy. The people who get drawn into riding through that kind of conversation and discourse deserve r/motorcycles and r/motorcycles deserves them. I personally a thrilled that a bunch of kids buy new bikes that become mostly garage ornaments to be sold later, keeps prices low for the rest of us. Thanks for everything! (Mushroom and onion with sausage sometimes by the way.)
Ref the running in comment, I had a tour of the Triumph factory and the guide mentioned that as the manufacturing tolerances are now so good and the matching of parts such as pistons to cylinders that running in is less relevent - it's just that people are used to running in bikes. I bought a Tracer 9 and Himalayan 411 a few weeks apart, Yamaha's advice was 'don't thrash it'. The Yam manual says 600 miles under 5300 rpm then 600 to 1000 miles unde 6300 rpm. Well, I say 'under' it says 'avoid prolonged operation above'. The Enfield one limits you to 40 MPH in top, engine speeds aren't mentioned. That was the longest 300 miles of my life. Favorite pizza - free!
I'd never heard of this before, but since it is in essence a dumping ground where anyone can say anything they wish then....as a reader....take it with a chunk of salt.....the source of information means everything these days.
For me this is my approach to all media, so I've heard it before many times especially because I am from a generation of people who use smart phones as well.
Very well explained. Thanks for stepping up, taking a risk, and putting this together. This is why I am such a fan of your work! This was not "ranty or rambly" in any way. :-)
Hey man great conversation. It reminds me of a quote from the great Homer Simpson "Oh it must be true, I saw it on the internet". In days gone it was said when you read a news paper remember paper never refused ink. My favourite pizza is a four seasons. Spent some time in Italy. A local restaurant did this pizza where each quarter has ingredients that represented a different season. In the middle was an egg which represented the sun.
You should always follow break in procedures. Even in the exact same motor, from the same builder, some will be a little tighter and some will be built to slightly looser tolerances. Some motors might have a little more junk from the manufacturing process in nooks and crannys and need to keep oil flow and rpms down, so more of the engine's oil passes through the filter element. Some engines come with lighter weight Break in Oils, to help flush out the new engine and therefore a person should keep the RPMs and throttle down lower for awhile, until the engine is flushed out and the oil is changed to the regular running oil.
One thing from a lubrication class I attended has stuck with me regarding any break-in period is that, most of the particulates are created in the initial startup followed by successive startups. So what should be done is to run the engine for short durations. Shutting down the engine allows the suspended particulates in the oil to drain down with the oil to the bottom, to the oil pan and settle there to be captured by the magnetic drain plug.
One thing from a lubrication class I attended has stuck with me regarding any break-in period is that, most of the particulates are created in the initial startup followed by successive startups. So what should be done is to run the engine for short durations. Shutting down the engine allows the suspended particulates in the oil to drain down with the oil to the bottom, to the oil pan and settle there to be captured by the magnetic drain plug.
My Subaru tuner said he dislikes DIY'ers like me, because the only research sources I have available are the Reddit forums. He says they're all the same, old, regurgitated info that nobody has any actual first hand experience with. So it's not just r/Motorcycle.
I only visit r/motorcycles to comment.. "It's always the battery!" Swine and pine. My own spin on hawaiian. Pineapple/Bacon using chipotle and ranch as the base instead of pizza sauce.
Ryan and Fort9 are one of the most entertaining motorcycle channels on TH-cam. His content is usually unique. As I'm a 50 years rider, I see he might have an opinion, but isn't full of BS, or mocking/ snobbery. Unlike some channels on YT. Redditers who don't know much, aren't worth taking seriously.
i got chewed out for asking about good tires for winter in bc there. everyone told me i would crash and die instead. 25 comments later and i still don't have a good idea of winter tires for a mostly wet winter.... just going to go with dunlop mutants, no thanks to r/motorcycles
If there was ever a time in my life to shut the hell up; it is now. But these gloves make it very hard. WT............... No! Shut up Paul! Shut.................up!
I like going on that subreddit and pissing them off by talking about my love for liter bikes and loud exhausts. Nothing pisses them off more than a liter bike with a loud exhaust going over the speed limit.
The oil video its not just about the quality of the oil but also about the materials, disign, and manufacturing of an engine, which translates as quality. Also, Ducatti was orders of magnitude better than chinese bikes, not comparable as you let people belive here. And finally a population of one bike from each brand is definetely not significant as a statistic study or valid as definetive proof, but definetely adds valuable information and context, even if it is only anecdotal, to the overal discussion and decision of purchase. Taking that video as proof that RE is the best manufacturer is not completely wrong or right, it is just an inidication of an element of quality. At 09:40 you mention that if they had that quality they would never break down and that other brands would burn to the ground. That is a complete fallacy and exaggeration and fails to recognize, that there are a LOT more elements to the quality of a motorcycle than just the engine manufacturing, there are thousands of moving parts. The video is just an indication that RE engine quality definetely got better, how better? who knows! better than other bikes? We do not have enough evidence but we can clearly see that they might be competing with way more expensive bikes. That does not mean that the bikes will not break down or that others will burn. That was just silly I personaly own a RE and have not had any issue at all with the bike. Again this is only anecdotal, but that does not mean it is useless or invalid informaiton. Also, not an attack, just my personal opinion. It seems to me that a lot of people got mad to have their expensive bikes compared in quality to cheaper indian bikes. I love this channel and want to see it grow!! but come on man! you can be fairer to everyone, even if they exaggerate one discussion point that you disagree with. You dont have to exaggerate your counter-argument.
You seem to misunderstand the moral of the story, here. He's pointing out that appealing to authority, Ie taking everything a public figure says as the gospel truth is not the right approach, and it's led to a lot of toxicity on that platform. I've seen it myself with loads of communities that start out great when they're small, then become co-opted by miserable, useless contrarians desperate for a purpose who're always dead right because such and such said this is the way it is and they're right because they have a large following. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy for numerous reasons that should be obvious, yet are often conveniently overlooked by participants because it's easy to let someone else do you're thinking for you than to put in the work to know and prove you're right. Yes, Ryan's oil test is a valuable addition to the knowledge base, but it's HARDLY conclusive. It's one sample size. It would be akin to testing a half dozen vaccines on a half dozen people before approving some or all for wide spread use just because some medical mouthpiece said "it's safe". That's the logic we're talking about here, and it's insufficient.
@@JamesBiggar Rather you missed the argument completely. Appeal to authority is not a fallacy itself, it is an argumentation resource. It is only a fallacy if you take it as absolute truth. But you guys take it as an absolute fallacy and confalte that with a lie to just dismiss valuable evidence. Spite even made a flase dilemma fallacy by saying that if RE had better quality other bikes would be burning up. Now, THAT is a fallacy. It is as toxic to claim absolute truth based on a small sample experiment as it is to dismiss evidence claiming a logic fallacy. I really don't understand how you people can point out to others and not realize you're doing exactly the same. Moral of the story huh? I guess moral only applies to other people.
Also note that Ryan spent more than 20K on a new Ducati after making that video, so yes, it's fair to say he would agree with your assessment of it. ;)
I am a soon-to-be new rider and I was looking around there to see if I can pick up some tips or maybe ask a few questions of my own... after browsing for about thirty minutes, I've come to a conclusion that I would not get far there. Folks either give meme responses or completely trash noobs. There were a few helpful comments here and there, but it's a small percentage.
And the study that Ryan run doesn't highlight reliability. It highlights who has the cleanest factory. It doesn't show what is the actual reliability of the engine, for that he would've needed to create a study in which a) there's a biggest sample size, and b) where they study multiple oil changes through time and set a trend on debris. Same with the break-in video, Ari's experience is "take care of it, but subject it to a variety of situations" which is EXACTLY what all the manuals tell you, don't sit at one rpm, try to not spent extended time beyond certain rpms, have the engine experiment a variety of loads, rpms, gears, etc xD
All the oil sample test tells you basically is the internal fit and finish. It is a metric of how much a company cares about quality, rather than how well built the motor is.
Reddit itself is a cesspool. Any subreddit with over, say, 3k members isn't worth going to. You ask a question, all you get is berated and arguments in the comments
It's why I avoid a lot of social media even though I'm a content creator. The amount of bad information shared as gospel on basically any topic you can think of is crazy.
Get 25% off a Cardo with code SPITE10, today and tomorrow only! bit.ly/3IUZ1hM
That only apply to the Slim? Some others it only takes the 10 off.
Are you in the US? I think it's N.A. only.
for me as well, only 10%
can't get 25%, code is for 10%.
You promised to link to the oil video in the description... I've never seen that and would like to see what the test was all about.
“Bad information is treated as fact on r/Motorcycle.” You sir, just described the majority of Reddit…
I think you meant "the Internet". 😂
@@vfguy65i think you meant humans in general
@@estebanod agreed. I posted elsewhere that my guiding principle in life is "people suck".
I think you mean gay people
All of Reddit
r/Motorcycles is full of people who like the Idea of riding but are too terrified of actually riding.
Lots of big hats, no cattle.
It's why it's so sad because it's the first thing that comes up to people on reddit that want to learn to ride.
Preach
Yeah! I can't believe how many people talk about bikes but don't actually ride on there!
I have one bike, that I ride quite frequently. There are people on there that claim to have many bikes and never ride. Lol
A lot of it is the youngins. They don’t own a bike but own a full on race sim set up. And they’re probably big gear heads in their own right but they’re too young to understand there are things they don’t know. The older you get the dumber you realize you are, and we call that wisdom.
I don't think this stops at r/motorcycles. It's a mob mentality issue that exists everywhere. Once an opinion has enough supporters it is seen as fact. It becomes science by consensus instead of science by fact.
"The science is settled: all doctors and scientists agree... because the doctors and scientists who disagreed were silenced or stripped of their titles."
Click bait or something you believe?
Sounds familiar
@@Schlabbeflickeragree
What do you agree with?
I honestly feel like Fortnine is the *only* Motorcycle channel on TH-cam, that doesn't do this boring "lemme just ride my motorcycle and blabber on for pointlessly long minutes" type of videos.
revzillia does good reviews and occasional long form content. but I can't think of anyone other than those two that have consistent high production quality
@@stagiestpizza Damn, I had completely forgotten about revzilla. I learned the basics of riding a motorcycle from watching their videos.
@@stagiestpizzaChaos Causes is also rather high quality and I enjoy his videos a lot.
@@wildhogOWZack and Ari have a show with them that's basically Top Gear but unscripted and on bikes. Really great stuff.
44teeth is good.
Trying to have a discussion on r/motorcycles taught me to never bother trying to have a discussion on r/motorcycles. "Old school" web forums like Advrider are generally *far* better sources of information.
I'm a biker, gamer, and sci-fi reader. In all hobbies I've ever had the assumption that "Reddit hates everything" is usually correct
biker, gamer, sci-fi reader. i like you my man.
A man after my own heart, kudos!
Same man. And I think it's just social media in general. So many opinionated assholes behind their keyboards.
Agree...Redit on the whole I have avoided for the most part since it's inception in the mid 2000's because it has always been a bit of a negative flame fest space every time I have perused it. Be it gaming content, off road content, or moto content. I have avoided twitter/x for the same reasons. They are just not reliable sources of information because I see more spinless arguments and needless negativity than I see constructive posts.
There is a critical size where people just get unhinged.
While y'all rant here In the comments I already went to r/motorcycles to cause problems
Did you post a link to this video?
200IQ play
Based.
@@Subtlepenguin no. I asked r/motorcycles "what's the most unreliable YT motorcycle channel"
@@fullmetalcorgi1350that's why we love you buddy
As a rider, pilot, and professional mechanic that is very active on reddit, it seems to me that the general subreddits have the worst advice since that's where everyone starts out, and you see the Dunning-Kruger effect in full force, but as people have been riding, flying, or fixing longer they find a niche, so when you get into the type specific subreddits for KLR, Airheads, or aircraft maintenance you have enough experienced members to keep disinformation lower.
yeah you got to go to your specific vehicle model group/forum. thats how you get the most amount of experts on your specific vehicle and can get the most accurate and trust worthy information as there will always be experts that have worked and owned those vehicles for a long time and are experienced enough to understand what problems and what pros the vehicle has. allot of the time when something goes wrong it's a known reliablity issue and veterans of that model will know that it's a usual fail point and can tell you to check the most basic and obvious causes first. tell a general motorcycle page that your FZ6n front sprocket came lose and they will blame the previous owner but say it in a fz6n group and they will just point out that it's a common problem among the S1 because the factory locking washer is crap.
As a motorcycle mechanic, I agree 100%. The "advice" you read on Reddit and some FB groups is laughable.
That's an interesting observation. I like it!
I suspect it's not _just_ the Dunning-Kruger effect, but the expert effect as well... where a true expert will be very reluctant to state broad generalizations (I broadly generalize, lol), so they're either forced to write long articles to specify sufficiently to make it clear what they're actually saying-only then to get lost in the noise much of the time, I'd imagine-or they move on toward narrower niche groups where it's already implied that they're only talking about the specific thing that narrower subreddit or other group is about.
@barefootalien I've not heard that called the expert effect, but it makes sense. It pairs well with Brandolini's law: the amount of energy needed to debunk misinformation is an order of magnitude bigger than that needed to produce it. I'll often ignore misinformation on the general subreddits because it'll take several paragraphs to provide context needed to correct the BS, so unless it's something dangerous or they seem to genuinely want to learn I'll just keep scrolling.
@@ERusstbucket Yeah, for me it depends on my mood. Sometimes I do feel like typing out the correction with all the context, to at least put the real information out there.
But then the same question gets asked a week later, and a week after that, and a week after that, instead of people doing a quick search to see if their question has already been answered, and I just get tired of it.
This is hilarious to me because I am banned on r/Motorcycles and they wouldn't appeal it because "They don't hand out p*ssy passes" 😆 The moderators are wild.
How did you pull that off🫣
Didn't expect to see you here lol, I also want to know how you managed that 😂
@@merabiamkoladze5929 It's not very hard to get banned from a subreddit
I got permabanned after pissing off one mod who kicked me out of three different subreddits he was a mod for. Fuck Reddit
LMAO what the actual f*ck?
At the end of the video ryan made sure to say that the data was not a study to prove anything, just a study interesting for people to have an idea of how those studys work.
The fact that KTM had such a good score should have been a giveaway that the data didn't actually translate to reliability. XD (tbh i have no clue what im talking about.)
Reddit and Twitter are filled with misery and misery likes company. I used to try to post positive things, but "Doomposters" would always find something to get angry about.
Reddit in particular has a group of people I call, "likes to talk about problem, but never wants to solve it, since if they solve it, then they can't talk about it" that applies to a disturbing amount of subreddits.
Wow, didn't think I'd see you here lol
Honestly yeah, anger is like fire in that the more of an echo chamber (closed off and full of fuel and heat) it's in, the more dangerous it is.
Reddit works as a hive mind. The idea of the downvote makes everyone Karma-Whore fake internet points and this will make people learn and repeat the official statement from each subreddit.
It looks like you've become what you hate
Woah you’re a person? I thought you were one of those automated ai accounts
Whoa! Bladed Angel!
to quote mike tyson - "social media has made people way too comfortable with disrespecting people and not getting punched in the face for it"
Iron Mike is usually right. Smarter than most would guess.
The day I’ve stopped using Reddit my life changed in better, there’s too much toxicity in that place
There are definitely some great communities on there. Fortunately you can filter some of that garbage out. But I agree there is quite a bit of toxicity. There is plenty on YT comments as well. Unfortunately people just can't be respectful to one another especially when it comes to sharing/being unified in a passion.
edit: and it usually seems to be the "main" communities that are the worst. Like r/motorcycles being the broader community vs like he mentioned r/klr650. I usually try to find the smaller more niche communities and it typically makes a huge difference.
I used the forced exodus of 3rd party apps as a reason to quit, I have so much more time to do other stuff besides scrolling Reddit.
No offense, but TH-cam comments are just as bad!
It’s definitely a fucking cesspool in a so many different ways. Fuck Reddit.
It really sucks that so much of it sucks though, because I actually really like a few subs and have learned a lot from them. But yeah, as a whole Reddit is so fucked off
Agreed. I stopped using Reddit after they changed their API and boned third party apps that are better than the official app. You know because MONEY!
Reddit “motorcyclists” will spend years arguing about how bikes steer without actually riding on a twisty road.
I ride on the twisties all the time and all i know is "i lean the bike this way, i also go this way"
This is a problem with reddit and the internet in general. Some people think that something they do will work for everyone but have no concept that other people may want different things or that other ways of doing things can be perfectly fine
And the sad part about that particular F9 video is that Ryan spesifically states that their sample size is too small to draw conclusions from.
Edit: just proving your point about video endings 😁
A lot of Reddit goes "this thing happened to one guy once" and then assumes nothing else can possibly happen in the future
I followed FortNine for a while. Ryan seems like a good guy. Very entertaining, but I didn't always agree with him. But if I said anything, LOOK OUT! The problem with appealing to authority is that it's a logical fallacy - the moment you put someone on a pedestal as an infallible arbiter of truth, you've stopped looking for it. You're not interested in doing the work to know you're right, you only care to be perceived as right.
Wait! So did you stop following him because you didn't always agree with the content? That is basically the confirmation bias fallacy 🙈
@@lfcv55 That can be confirmation bias, but it can also be "disregarding bad sources". I kinda agree with og here, the fort9 channel does do great entertainment, and sometimes also offer great information, but often their more scientific stuff is to simplified to still be truthfull. Topics like engine breakin, motor oil, motorcycle geometry, are such complex topics that it takes years to understand for a professional engineer, it's just not possible to explain that in a ten minute video and then draw some conclusion from it. And to even try is a bad idea in my opinion. As much as I like the fort9 channel, I think some videos should have rather not been published because the general public doesn't realise how nuanced some topics are and that the video can't just be taken as some kind of fact.
Read the comments section under any Fortnine video and it's endless cult-like boot-licking worship of video production talent. It. Gets. So. Old.
Don't forget that every video F9 does goes through a barrage of scripting, editing, proofing, cleaning, and so forth before a final publish. His videos are not Vlog style, raw, uncut. This can create the idea that someone, or some people, are much more authoritative, knowledgeable, polished, perfect, classy, irrefutable, etc. than your everyday human being. Sure he has to do a lot of research, arrange stuff in a compelling story-telling sort of way, try to be humorous and attention grabbing, and get publish the final cut. It's just totally unrealistic to assume that all of this happens rather seamlessly or because Ryan or his small crew are just so much motorcycle, science, engineering, mechanical genius.
Moral: _USE YOUR OWN JUDGEMENT, THINK FOR YOURSELVES, BE REALISTIC, PRACTICE EMOTIONAL MATURITY._
The equivalent (to some degree) would be to assume Jeremy Clarkson is an automotive authority. No. He's just a slick automotive entertainer who worked well with a media team to spin a compelling video.
What exactly did you question?
This is like saying you dont watch/enjoy top gear because the the tests and challenges arent realistic, scientific, or necessarily meaningful. Like... thats not the point at all... you watch fortnine because hes the clarkson of motorcycles, not because you agree or think he is right all the time. Maybe check your ego... and try to just enjoy the show.
If I even taste a piece of green pepper in my pizza, I’m spitting it out.
Chicken, Ham, pineapple.
I'm 100% out of the loop on this whole reddit drama, but nothing beats ROUND TABLE PIZZA!!!! Pepperoni and sausage..matter of fact I think I'll go there today for their buffet special. HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!
I have been riding for more than 55 years, I’ve never or ever claimed being a pro, but 1 thing I can attest to is that 40 of those 55 years there was no internet and many of us never had a problem with riding, and we managed to keep our bikes running so we can enjoy the rides, problem today is that there is too many self proclaimed masters of riding and way too many naive pork chops ready to believe anything and everything with little or no cred. my favourite pizza is always mushroom, green peppers, pepperoni and italien sausage with extra cheese..😂
Like you say, Ryan at FortNine is entertaining as hell! I remember that engine oil video. I' m an older guy who's new to motorcycling but I'm also an engineer. My thought was - if you're buying a Royal Enfield you'd better not gaffe off that first service! Probably want to be more careful to break-in properly, too! I think his videos on fuel conditioners, such as Sta-bil and Sea Foam, are more informative as are his videos on chain cleaning and lubing. I respect his knowledge and experience, but he's also one guy. You can just as easily find people telling you something completely different - and not even necessarily be wrong!
That was my thought exactly! The learning I pulled from that oil video was "Oh boy! Better not skip that break-in oil change!!" because clearly that's what's being cleaned by the oil if that's what the study said haha
What an awesome take! I absolutely agree and to the credit for both the Revzilla boys and F9, their videos often leave the scope to make one’s own decisions on the topic. The oil video was a fun “huh” moment for me, definitely a motivator to change my own oil 😂. Whilst the sample was too small to draw anything from it, it could serve as an interesting indicator of a single small aspect of quality control in the building process of a motorbike, not it’s overall quality/reliability.
One thing my dad has taught me is, if you are ever in doubt about something mechanical, see what the people that designed and built it have to say first ;)
Likewise also an engineer... it's a single datapoint. It's a valid datapoint, but only one. Does RE make good bikes, yes. Does HD make good bikes, yes. How people want to gauge that is up to them, but at the end of the day, we have nearly every motorcycle brand out there making great bikes... I just think if folks do the proper maintenance (which most don't/won't) they would have less to worry about regardless of brand of bike they own.
I mean right off the bat, on the break-in video and amount of metal released to the oil... assuming the experiment was conducted to the highest possible standard and we could take the relative positioning of those figures as gospel: why would we assume any number is better or worse than any other number?
The engine is breaking in. Sliding surfaces are INTENTIONALLY wearing against each other until they are in optimal contact. Therefore the correct amount of metal released will be specific to each individual engine. So even if those numbers were perfect, they still tell us precisely nothing.
Holy shit I just realized Spite is getting almost as much as Yammy does with 10% of the subscribers. Incredibly well done sir!
I love Spite, and have been cheering him on to my bike buds.
Yammy Noob has a huge following, and gives out sketchy advice. Spite has very intimate knowledge and dealings with him, and his name didn't even come up. Ryan gives out reasonable advise for the most part and gets called out; but Yammy gets a pass? WTF? Ryan was in the thumbnail tho, so there's that.
@@billparker8954I think that's because F9 is seen as far more legitimate than Yams. F9 takes on a number of various topics with a decently scientific-based approach, while Yams channel is mostly bad takes and "5 best motorcycles for new riders" videos
Costco has this make your own pizza set. Add cheese and bake for 10 minutes.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Spite is contractually obligated or even just not speaking about yam out of professional courtesy.
r/motorcycles being filled with unhelpful and rude people was the reason I created a YT channel
You must spend a lot of time on r/CRT
@@50629 Bro took the gay jokes way too far
The reddit hive mind is real. Any time i see someone consider an older starter bike like a ninja 250, it seems like everyone comes in to say theyre going to die immediately because it doesn't have abs
ABS is for people who don't know how to brake properly honestly
@@RFSpartan so uhh.... beginners then.
I bought an ‘88 ninja 250 new and just sold it seven years ago. That bike was a blast and I wish I’d kept it. I’m 56 years old now and ride a BMW F800 GSA.
"if it's not over 650cc you will get bored/outgrow it within a month"
That mentality is my pet peeve and I see it a LOT. People need to understand bikes are built with a purpose in mind, the same bike that is perfect for 10 minute commutes in the city isn't going to be so great for a 8+ hour day touring or a 3 hour canyon run.
As a hardware engineer, I recommend always following the break in procedure. The engineers that wrote it have broken in more test motors than you can imagine.
Even if they didn't, a motor rarely will last less time or work worse if you follow the break-in procedure. If you follow some half-baked moron's idea then there's a good chance you cause oil consumption or some other issue and could ruin the bike.
Oh, so the big time "Hardware Engineer" recommends, now does he!!? 👑😳😂😂
Just joking, I've been wrenching on bikes @ dealerships for 38 years, and riding since '82. We all know this is just common sense. If anything, taking it slow allows one to get used to that brand new bike, so it isn't totalled in 14 miles (have seen this).
Yet plenty of professional car engine builders send their engines with dyno sheets
Any ICE motor should have a some sort of break in procedure. Hell, I still sit in my car and wait till it warms up to temp before going anywhere. It’s only 4 years old and I live in FL, but still! 😅….. oh, Favorite pizza is pepperoni or buffalo chicken!
Reddit can take any subject and ruin it.
I don't really think this is a r/motorcycles issue but moreso an internet issue. Once a community becomes large enough it will inevitably fall into people mainly just arguing and shouting each other in some weird circlejerk.
Its why most of the car stuff I interact with is from smaller communities.
Favourite pizza is probably meat feast (mainly the ones with less chicken)
I agree, from my observation, as well. Once an online community reaches critical mass, people don't feel like their voices are as heard anymore. They just get louder and louder.
I agree with both statements. I joined Spites discord to support him on his new venture. I met some cool people and got to talk with Spite about guitars, which we shared a similar passion for heavy guitars. I couldn't find any open motorcycle training in my area and someone went out of their way and found me one. A little further than I would have liked, but I got it done and now have a license thanks to that guy. If you are the fine gentleman that helped me book a course in Lansing, thank you. I left shortly after being called a racist. I do miss having some people to talk about bikes with, but no thank you. The internet is full of toxicity.
Yeah I find Reddit similar to I find TH-cam comment sections, a lot of the time it's best to just stay away
@@njgfpv3696 I was also part of Spite's Discord and There were enough jerks that I left. No disrespect to Spite, but I got absolutely zero value from being part of it.
The tests are accurate, the results are too, but the mistake is the same mistake everyone does: Making a wrong conclusion with the correct test.
Like you said, it's not their fault. They never conclude "therefor, this brand is the best", they only say "this is the one who came on top".
Your take is completely right in my opinion. You are not saying they are wrong, just that you have to take everything with a grain of salt and not jump to conclusions.
Im a conpletely new rider (dont event have a motorcycle yet), so I've asked a few questions on r/motorcycles. And while i have gotten helpful answer, there is a lot of people that act like the questions I asked are the most obvious things in the world, and that I'm incredibly stupid for having to ask.
The oil particulate test was interesting in what it might imply (way too small of a sample). However, there are so many other factors that will influence engine longevity. For example, lower quality metallurgy will lead to earlier failures.
This is basically every subreddit once it gets past a certain size. Assuming it isn't a community based on negativity from the beginning.
Surprisingly some reddit’s actually are some of the most peaceful places and others are like Afghanistan.
Oh god, the subreddits that are solely focused on hating something are wild. How do people have the mental energy to spend their free time discussing something they hate?
@@motoalex3760 However a lot of the peaceful ones are still just peacefully and politely just spreading misinformation and group think.
I used to use Reddit but it eventually felt like it turned into a circle jerk of edgy young adults so I deleted my account, along with Facebook, instagram and Snapchat.
And as for pizza I love pretty much all of it. A good thin crust anything is usually the way to go.
Yeah, I left Reddit a while ago, and I'm glad I did. It was so toxic, it was getting me down. r/motorcycles was especially bad. Aggressive know-nothings would attack and pile on to anyone expressing a opinion based on actual knowledge.
I like supreme pizza. I bet if I said that on reddit, people would call me an ignorant POS and a bad person.
Good thing is that the classics still hold up all the resources you need as a beginner... Twist of the wrist video and books, Hurt Report, state safety class and materials, etc. Some of the info has changed for parts of those old resources but as a starting point they will carry you to be a fantastic rider with valuable info.
I was looking at a reddit thread comparing the KLX300 to the FE350s and there were multiple people attacking OP for even asking the question, saying he didn't know anything and that if he did he wouldn't be comparing them because they're so different.
That subreddit is a microcosm of the motorcycle community. Let’s face it, most people riding motorcycles don’t know shit about motorcycles and barely know how to ride. Judging by what I see on the road, about 1% of motorcycles are skilled at the craft. Most people who ride don’t ride every day, aren’t doing trips, never do another training course after they get their license, never done a track day, never done drills in a parking lot, and the list goes on. That subreddit reflects exactly that.
Yep! Learning takes effort, it's easier to run your mouth on Reddit 😁
Exactly the type of comment you would see in reddit, lol. A guy putting others down to elevate himself instead of trying to help others.
The question is, do you consider yourself part of the 1%? This is not a dig. It's the same thing as the first snow fall and everyone comes into work saying "No one else knows how to drive in the snow!" As long as there is a conception that there is a scale that others should live up to, not recognizing that we're all in the same continuum and may actually be worse at something other than the criteria that you list than a rote beginner, kind of illustrates Spite's comments. Just saying.
In the spirit of honest debate, not Reddit style bashing, I disagree with this common definition that to be a good rider you have to be a racer and a trick rider. You have to be doing track days and pushing the envelope and leaning way over.
Like saying every car driver needs to be taking NASCAR classes and doing track days and pushing there auto to the limit.
It's just as valid to be a rider who likes to casually ride a motorcycle to go places, and see new things....at reasonable speeds on a 350 or 650cc. He/She doesn't really need to be able to scrape knee on the track or do figure 8s in a parking lot. Just like car drivers don't need to be able to do donuts or drift. If all you do is ride at or below the speed limit, make turns at reasonable speeds and be able to swerve and emergency brake that is just fine
@@juanpablosanchezaveleyra6454 but am I wrong? Just because people have other priorities doesn’t mean I’m putting people down. I’m an instructor and spend at least one weekend a month “helping” new riders. What about you snowflake?
I love the critical thinking and scientific reasoning, Spite. We need more of it. Any system with only positive feedback is inherently unstable. You need negative feedback to get the system back in check. Chicago deep dish; spicy Italian sausages.
Vegetarian with Beef, Feta and extra onions .
Never been to Reddit, But I do know that Ryan has always been great at supplying references in his Vids for all of the data / info that he uses. And given his high educational background, it's great that he can turn it into something funny and informative, ( with or without innuendo ).
One of the things I think people also miss about the engine oil is that it only really tells us about manufacturing quality it has little to do with quality control and nothing to do with design or engineering quality.
Reddit is a pit of toxic misery, I tried to use it once, that lasted about 5 days :D It's why I prefer finding people on here, since people actually ride and I can gauge their personality a little before meeting up with them. Reddit, I dunno, I dislike people being rude to people for no reason, and the moderators in particular on r/motorcycles are.......wonderful(dripping with sarcasm)
I agree with you about r/motorcycles. I never realized how toxic it was until I responded to a question about what gear should be worn while riding. I felt I was a pretty cautious riding in that I always wear boot, jeans, gloves and a helmet when I ride my Goldwing. I wear a good jacket when the temperature is below ~ 75 and a modular helmet when the temperature is below ~ 66. When it is warmer, I wear a half-helmet.
I thought I was being reasonably safe. Little did I know how insanely risky I was being by wearing so little gear. The fine folks at r/motocycles let me know that I should be wearing head to toe racing leathers and a full face helmet and gloves every time I ride. If I wore anything less, then I was almost certain to risk horrible disfigurement or death.
P.S. - Thanks Spite for making your Goldwing videos. They are what convinced me to buy my Goldwing.
Yeah that sounds right. Those people are insane with their full leather racing suits. Definitely not for me. I am not going race mode to go on a nice casual ride.
@@rm25088 sometimes I ride in shorts and t shirt on the road. off road I usually have boots, knee pads, and pants. always wear a helmet and gloves. but I don't know I've been watching motorcycle crashes for 3 days straight now due to being laid up after surgery and I'm starting to see the point in the motorcycle specific gear. at least Moto jeans and a leather jacket. maybe boots and better gloves. there's some crashes I've seen where people had gear, got into major wrecks and were fine, others no gear and and completely messed up. one that stuck out was a girl that lost her leg from getting hit from behind by her husband (also on a bike). she only had jeans on. another guy took the same hit and broke his femur but was able to keep his leg. he had a full race suit on. both were being stupid and riding like dumb dumbs though. it seems a lot of people be loosing feet and fingers when they take a glancing blow to an oncoming car with just normal shoes there might be a point to all the safety nazis out there.
@@scrapmanindustries I have riding high top shoes which are fantastic, Armored hoody, gloves, helmet and that is all I wear. I want to get a pair of riding jeans and I will. Just the prices are ridiculous for 1 pair. We take the risk every time we go out. Hitting a car doing 80 miles per hour, none of that gear will save you. But no way in hell am I dressing up in one of those full leather racing suits. I don't ride like that anymore and see no point unless I am on a track which will never happen. In 20 years I have crashed once and it was my fault. But I accept the risk.
@@rm25088 yeah I was looking at pants styled more like you see them guys on the big adventure bikes wearing and the ones I was wanting are like $250 for one pair. $300 for a bat man leather jacket and like $300 for the boots that I think would fit my riding style. $150 for better gloves. so it would be $1k just for 1 set of decent pieced together gear. not including the helmet that I already have. freaking nuts. I didn't look into the riding jeans yet but I'm hoping they're cheaper. I don't plan on going head on with a car but I do feel like I might go for a slide. I crashed a lot off road and a few on road. each time I got lucky and my on road crashes were nothing really. the one time I rear ended a car that suddenly stopped. went from 70mph down to about 30mph when I hit. rear wheel picked up I squeezed the crap out of the bike with my knees and let my hips pivot to one side to loose momentum, set her back down. the only reason I put a foot down with that one is I killed the engine somehow. didn't even dent the car. had a few low speed low sides I was able to walk out of without my upper half hitting the ground. but one day I think them armored riding pants might come in handy.
Well wearing a half helmet is pretty stupid tbf. There is no comparison in terms of protection.
'Do you ever feel like you're about to kick a hornets nest?' Yup, when I did three videos roasting Yammie after your departure lol
what happened? ive never cared for Yammie hes always come across as Arrogant and Dooschy to me...
Totally agree with you Spite, AND I’m sure Ari, Zack, and Ryan would as well. There are very few absolutes in life, and motorcycles vary tremendously!
this is less a specific problem of reddit and more a general problem of the internet... back in the day if you were new to motorcycles and had questions you'd ask a rider you know and trust in person... chances are they won't tear you apart like a bunch of strangers you'll never meet behind a screen will... that level of disassociation empowers people to say and do things to others that they'd never say or do in person, and its manufacturing a serious problem in how society relates to one another
You are absolutely right. Favorite pizza is plain Jane or with tomato’s and green peppers for zest
I think there are always bad apples, Ryan gives good info as far as I’ve experienced. I wouldn’t blame Ryan for people extending the truth past the breaking point. And I’m pretty sure every time he does a test like that he lays out that it’s experimental and results are just the conclusion he came to. What’s cool, is the TH-cam community opening up dialogue! Let’s do more of this!
Ryan has some good info out there but he also has some misleading info as he just some times don't actually understand what he is really talking about. there are many things out here that sound good and work on papper but when it comes to reality things work a bit differently and that's where he some times falls flat. for example his video about carbs vs EFI where he don't actually know what kind of technology bikes have and therefore underestimates the EFI allot because from his basic understanding of it it seems allot worse and simplistic than what it really is in the real life application.
@@savagememes873 the first step to know what your talking about, is to never act like your an expert. I don’t care if you been doing the same menial task daily for a decade, there’s always more to it
Like the video he did comparing an ebike "enduro" to a heavy DRZ400 with street tyres. He has the best intentions but I think sometimes he manipulates the test to give the outcome they wanted for the video. Do the same test against a real lightweight enduro bike and it wouldn't have the same outcome. Either way I think the videos have dropped in quality since they started pumping them out every few weeks
Spite: Well thought out argument on how people on /r/motorcycles misinterpret TH-cam videos.
/r/motorcycles: "Spite called Ryan F9 a big turkey!"
hahah, spot on... "let me tell you about Ryan F9...oh look a big ass turkey"
I heard it as well it must be true. To Reddit we go.
He spotted a wild turkey on the side of the road ...
Yo Spite, you seem very rational and educated. That is probably not the case with the broader population and least of all, people taking advice from R slash motorcycle. Me personally, I use multiple sources before making a decision. So far my moto experience has been amazing with negligible setbacks. Thanks for the video man, be safe.
Well said man. You hit the nail on the head, So to speak
A lot of the information passed around is obsolete.
40yrs ago, you did need to scrub in new tires.
40yrs ago, you did cause "hot spots" on a motor if it wasn't run at varied RPMs.
But today's tires use different processes and materials and the stuff used to release a tire from the molds turns into a powder after a bit, long before it gets out of the manufacturers factory.
And the quality of the metals used in engines, the smelting processes and the milling make it highly unlikely you would get a "hot spot".
And today's motorcycle shops tend to have one trained and certified master mechanic who is expected to keep his eye on five or six kids that don't understand what a scraper ring is, let alone why one bike has only two rings and the other has three. I think that is where a lot of bike problems come from.
Supreme as well.
Pretty sure honda isnt recommending an ancillary break in procedure on their new macines just because we used to do it due to lower tolerances. Youd know a global corporation would save the money in paper for the manual if they could... tooling isnt perfect, and manufacturing isnt either, break ins are just a safe bet to make sure everythings running as it should.
Do a gear swap on a 4wd truck, itll recommend a 500 mile break in period... part of that is to make sure youve got the gear lash set right so you dont completely destroy your brand new componentry...
i think that the engine oil video was just as much if not more about the quality of oil put in by the manufacturer and how clean the production process was rather than if the engine will fail or not
Pepperoni, sausage and mushrooms. I try to take all these videos as just recommendations and not as pure truth. Life is full of variables even if we follow the same path we still step on different ground.
Meat lovers supreme with green pepper as the only veggie! Exactly right on your comment. It’s impossible to do the exact same thing with two exact engines because there’s no such thing. That’s why they have specs and tolerances. There are no two engines or bikes exactly the same.
I don’t care for pizza anymore. For every example or test proving or disproving something there is always an example that contradicts. For every broken Harley there is someone claiming to have ridden 500k miles without burning a single ounce of oil.
Zack, Ari, and Ryan are great at what they do but everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Thin crust pepperoni, mushroom and onion.
Ah, Reddit. Obi Wan Kenobi also said: You'll never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.
Large, thin crust, cooked crispy, pepperoni, mushrooms, tomato, green olives, sprinkle of oregano. Pepperoni on top so it gets crispy.
You make great content. Honestly it feels more like hanging with a buddy than the tv show feel of f9 and Ari, Zach.
Merry Christmas
Every motorcycling sub is similar and faces the same issues. The number of people that quote these different videos without understanding what the videos are actually saying is incredible. The redline run in vs babying it was a great one. The end gap increase on the rings told us all that we needed to know. Edit: BBQ beef
I had no idea what R/Motorcycles meant when I clicked on this video, I'm going to keep it that way!😊
Local pizza place has one they call a Windsor. It's diced pancetta, pepperoni and bacon. The meat comes out fantastically crispy when it's diced up like that. So good
First person I saw who actually answered and man does that sound good!
I left Reddit a long time ago. It's so toxic
I love how once they were like "crash bars are for old farts", but at the same time defend function over form.
Yeah, cuz people actually put crash bars on their bikes because it will look good. I'm talking your everyday standard crashbar, not necesseraly bungkings (I have never owned one, so I can't say if they are just for show or actually give some protection)
I've never "broken in" a motorcycle engine. I've just followed the oil change schedule in the manual and ride the speed limit and I've never had any problem.
Never bought new?
Pineapple and jalapeño.
The thing about F9 is he'll generally give you everything he's using to back up his conclusions. That way I can decide if he's "right", or (like the oil video) it's not the whole picture. Or like the "ride like a motocop" video just not how I want to ride.
But if you watch them as entertainment-plus-conclusion you miss all the nuance.
There was the video where he talked about a mid eighties Honda VT500 as being one of the worst motorcycles ever made. Not even close buddy. Or the one where he claimed that the beauty of a V-twin was that it minimized vibration. Have you even ridden a Harley? But all in all I do enjoy his content.
Great video. I’ve never used Reddit and dumped Facebook years ago. Even TH-cam sometimes people are ready to jump down your throat before thinking about things first. Some of these examples you have given are perfect examples of how you can make stats say what ever you want. People have seriously lost the ability to think for themselves.
The key to buying anything is research from numerous sources and then make your own decision based on your findings.
There all toxic because there protected none of those idiots would say shit to you in person
Completely agree with everything you said. The problem with internet - it gives a too many people with limited understanding or knowledge a platform to spout complete garbage. Favourite pizza - I have a few but Chicken Bruschetta is always good.
Unpopular opinion:
TH-cam comments are worse, especially the comments on comments.
I dont know about any of this shit. My bike gets ridden every day in all weather and it's 67 years old. If it goes wrong I'll fix it.
It was at this moment that Spite was recognized as one of the adults in the room blessed with the faculty of reason, composure, and more than a little common sense. I recently re-watched the movie Idiocracy and I am saddened to report that all of it came true. Sausage, mushroom, green pepper, extra garlic.
I’ve never used Reddit on purpose, because for the most part people are extremely uneducated and over opinionated on things they know little about, and a place like Reddit exasperates that fact.
That is very true, and it's not just Reddit that exacerbates that - it's the entire internet. Trump said "Fake News" and everybody jumps to the Fuhrer's command. Yes you should exercise intelligent cynicism with the news, but very little of it is factually dishonest. You should also exercise intelligent cynicism with what you read or hear on the internet.
Depends on the subreddit.
Supreme WITH mushrooms! Many videos are great references. As you would say, your results may vary. I have learned many things from those guys and you over the years. Sometimes, what to do, sometimes, what not to do. Thanks for posting.
Hey bud, lurker of your channel because I feel that you’re one of the only “motorcycle content” channels that has content about people who actually ride and don’t get so caught up in speadsheets and specs.
I agree with your take. Reddit in general sucks until you get into the very specific subreddits where it still sucks but has sprinkles of super useful and helpful information.
Keep it up buddy. The people who get drawn into riding through that kind of conversation and discourse deserve r/motorcycles and r/motorcycles deserves them.
I personally a thrilled that a bunch of kids buy new bikes that become mostly garage ornaments to be sold later, keeps prices low for the rest of us.
Thanks for everything! (Mushroom and onion with sausage sometimes by the way.)
Ref the running in comment, I had a tour of the Triumph factory and the guide mentioned that as the manufacturing tolerances are now so good and the matching of parts such as pistons to cylinders that running in is less relevent - it's just that people are used to running in bikes. I bought a Tracer 9 and Himalayan 411 a few weeks apart, Yamaha's advice was 'don't thrash it'. The Yam manual says 600 miles under 5300 rpm then 600 to 1000 miles unde 6300 rpm. Well, I say 'under' it says 'avoid prolonged operation above'.
The Enfield one limits you to 40 MPH in top, engine speeds aren't mentioned. That was the longest 300 miles of my life.
Favorite pizza - free!
Glad to see Spite's channel blowing up. It's well deserved.
Thank god he left that other mess of a channel. 👍🏻
I'd never heard of this before, but since it is in essence a dumping ground where anyone can say anything they wish then....as a reader....take it with a chunk of salt.....the source of information means everything these days.
For me this is my approach to all media, so I've heard it before many times especially because I am from a generation of people who use smart phones as well.
Very well explained. Thanks for stepping up, taking a risk, and putting this together. This is why I am such a fan of your work! This was not "ranty or rambly" in any way. :-)
Hey man great conversation. It reminds me of a quote from the great Homer Simpson "Oh it must be true, I saw it on the internet". In days gone it was said when you read a news paper remember paper never refused ink. My favourite pizza is a four seasons. Spent some time in Italy. A local restaurant did this pizza where each quarter has ingredients that represented a different season. In the middle was an egg which represented the sun.
Anchovies! I mean it. I love 'em!
Great nuance. Good luck with the internet accepting it.
Chuck you! Mushrooms belong on pizza!
Preach!!!!!!! I pretty much gave up on reddit because of this. The big brains are on spikes discord anyway. Pepperoni and bacon deep dish.
You should always follow break in procedures. Even in the exact same motor, from the same builder, some will be a little tighter and some will be built to slightly looser tolerances. Some motors might have a little more junk from the manufacturing process in nooks and crannys and need to keep oil flow and rpms down, so more of the engine's oil passes through the filter element. Some engines come with lighter weight Break in Oils, to help flush out the new engine and therefore a person should keep the RPMs and throttle down lower for awhile, until the engine is flushed out and the oil is changed to the regular running oil.
One thing from a lubrication class I attended has stuck with me regarding any break-in period is that, most of the particulates are created in the initial startup followed by successive startups. So what should be done is to run the engine for short durations. Shutting down the engine allows the suspended particulates in the oil to drain down with the oil to the bottom, to the oil pan and settle there to be captured by the magnetic drain plug.
One thing from a lubrication class I attended has stuck with me regarding any break-in period is that, most of the particulates are created in the initial startup followed by successive startups. So what should be done is to run the engine for short durations. Shutting down the engine allows the suspended particulates in the oil to drain down with the oil to the bottom, to the oil pan and settle there to be captured by the magnetic drain plug.
My Subaru tuner said he dislikes DIY'ers like me, because the only research sources I have available are the Reddit forums. He says they're all the same, old, regurgitated info that nobody has any actual first hand experience with. So it's not just r/Motorcycle.
I only visit r/motorcycles to comment.. "It's always the battery!"
Swine and pine. My own spin on hawaiian. Pineapple/Bacon using chipotle and ranch as the base instead of pizza sauce.
Ryan and Fort9 are one of the most entertaining motorcycle channels on TH-cam. His content is usually unique. As I'm a 50 years rider, I see he might have an opinion, but isn't full of BS, or mocking/ snobbery. Unlike some channels on YT.
Redditers who don't know much, aren't worth taking seriously.
i got chewed out for asking about good tires for winter in bc there. everyone told me i would crash and die instead. 25 comments later and i still don't have a good idea of winter tires for a mostly wet winter.... just going to go with dunlop mutants, no thanks to r/motorcycles
Wait OLD BAY, The corner is from Maryland?!?!?!
And how do you like those gloves cause I saw them too
Thinking someone's from Maryland because they use Old bay is like thinking someone's from Italy because they eat Pasta lol
If there was ever a time in my life to shut the hell up; it is now. But these gloves make it very hard. WT............... No! Shut up Paul! Shut.................up!
trolling and rage baiting has become a sport these days so the internet is just a pit of despair when you get a big public forum
Reddit is just another cesspool like Twitter. You're better off cutting it out of your daily lives. Less drama. Live longer.
I like going on that subreddit and pissing them off by talking about my love for liter bikes and loud exhausts. Nothing pisses them off more than a liter bike with a loud exhaust going over the speed limit.
The oil video its not just about the quality of the oil but also about the materials, disign, and manufacturing of an engine, which translates as quality. Also, Ducatti was orders of magnitude better than chinese bikes, not comparable as you let people belive here. And finally a population of one bike from each brand is definetely not significant as a statistic study or valid as definetive proof, but definetely adds valuable information and context, even if it is only anecdotal, to the overal discussion and decision of purchase.
Taking that video as proof that RE is the best manufacturer is not completely wrong or right, it is just an inidication of an element of quality. At 09:40 you mention that if they had that quality they would never break down and that other brands would burn to the ground. That is a complete fallacy and exaggeration and fails to recognize, that there are a LOT more elements to the quality of a motorcycle than just the engine manufacturing, there are thousands of moving parts. The video is just an indication that RE engine quality definetely got better, how better? who knows! better than other bikes? We do not have enough evidence but we can clearly see that they might be competing with way more expensive bikes. That does not mean that the bikes will not break down or that others will burn. That was just silly
I personaly own a RE and have not had any issue at all with the bike. Again this is only anecdotal, but that does not mean it is useless or invalid informaiton. Also, not an attack, just my personal opinion. It seems to me that a lot of people got mad to have their expensive bikes compared in quality to cheaper indian bikes.
I love this channel and want to see it grow!! but come on man! you can be fairer to everyone, even if they exaggerate one discussion point that you disagree with. You dont have to exaggerate your counter-argument.
You seem to misunderstand the moral of the story, here. He's pointing out that appealing to authority, Ie taking everything a public figure says as the gospel truth is not the right approach, and it's led to a lot of toxicity on that platform. I've seen it myself with loads of communities that start out great when they're small, then become co-opted by miserable, useless contrarians desperate for a purpose who're always dead right because such and such said this is the way it is and they're right because they have a large following. Appeal to authority is a logical fallacy for numerous reasons that should be obvious, yet are often conveniently overlooked by participants because it's easy to let someone else do you're thinking for you than to put in the work to know and prove you're right. Yes, Ryan's oil test is a valuable addition to the knowledge base, but it's HARDLY conclusive. It's one sample size. It would be akin to testing a half dozen vaccines on a half dozen people before approving some or all for wide spread use just because some medical mouthpiece said "it's safe". That's the logic we're talking about here, and it's insufficient.
@@JamesBiggar Rather you missed the argument completely. Appeal to authority is not a fallacy itself, it is an argumentation resource. It is only a fallacy if you take it as absolute truth.
But you guys take it as an absolute fallacy and confalte that with a lie to just dismiss valuable evidence. Spite even made a flase dilemma fallacy by saying that if RE had better quality other bikes would be burning up. Now, THAT is a fallacy.
It is as toxic to claim absolute truth based on a small sample experiment as it is to dismiss evidence claiming a logic fallacy. I really don't understand how you people can point out to others and not realize you're doing exactly the same. Moral of the story huh? I guess moral only applies to other people.
that statement of "only a sith deals in absolutes" is so hilarious, because it's an absolute statement.
Also note that Ryan spent more than 20K on a new Ducati after making that video, so yes, it's fair to say he would agree with your assessment of it. ;)
I am a soon-to-be new rider and I was looking around there to see if I can pick up some tips or maybe ask a few questions of my own... after browsing for about thirty minutes, I've come to a conclusion that I would not get far there. Folks either give meme responses or completely trash noobs. There were a few helpful comments here and there, but it's a small percentage.
And the study that Ryan run doesn't highlight reliability. It highlights who has the cleanest factory. It doesn't show what is the actual reliability of the engine, for that he would've needed to create a study in which a) there's a biggest sample size, and b) where they study multiple oil changes through time and set a trend on debris. Same with the break-in video, Ari's experience is "take care of it, but subject it to a variety of situations" which is EXACTLY what all the manuals tell you, don't sit at one rpm, try to not spent extended time beyond certain rpms, have the engine experiment a variety of loads, rpms, gears, etc xD
To be fair KTMs are always breaking down from personal experience.
Well done pepperoni to the point where they cup.
All the oil sample test tells you basically is the internal fit and finish.
It is a metric of how much a company cares about quality, rather than how well built the motor is.
This dude takes so much time to get to the point.
Reddit itself is a cesspool. Any subreddit with over, say, 3k members isn't worth going to. You ask a question, all you get is berated and arguments in the comments
It's why I avoid a lot of social media even though I'm a content creator. The amount of bad information shared as gospel on basically any topic you can think of is crazy.
Supreme without onion. Don't care for the onions either. I've never looked at r/motorcycles.I will continue not to.
As an Aprilia owner, I can confirm the oil video is accurate about Aprilia engine build quality 😂