My best hope is that they've recognized that it's time for some new source books covering dwarves/the misty mountains and rohan/wotr stuff that hasn't been touched in forever. I mean other than the last alliance there really isnt a lot of new stuff they can do this edition. Last edition we already got a lot of repeat stuff. Deorwine and Elfhelm for example surviving while Grimbold and Erkenbrand go sounds a lot like theyre preparing for a re-release.
I hear the inconsistency argument a lot but im pretty sure they made this clear, profiles that are going into the armies of lotr and hobbit books are going to reflect the films and the armies that are going into the armies of middle earth are a bit more open. has everyone forgotten this? it seems to me that easterlings for example are going into the armies of middle earth so it doesnt matter that they are not lore or film specific
I'm not so scared that the culling of models will have a lasting impact on the game. What we see now is what we lose, we don't know yet what we gain. I get that losing some named heroes hurts (I'm midway building a Rivendell list built around Erestor and Gildor) but you can still use them as captain. The skeleton that will make or break the game, at least for me, is the rulebook and the legion available.
Woses not being touched, as well as hobbits or ruffians tells me that the new list format (legions only basically) was also a deciding factor in what is getting removed. My biggest gripe is just removing some cool models for sale. I hope there is either a legacies MTO somewhat regularly, or they release the digital files for cheap (very unlikely) so people can still buy and paint them for legacy tournaments or just to have as collection pieces. Again, it does seem that the lack of communication about the new edition is causing more concerns because there are too many questions, than excitement. New models are great and all...but it's hard to get really excited when the community has so many concerns. The list of models gone seems inconsistent with the information the community has.
erestor and gildor have given rivendell some issues at 500pts, although they do use the term elven kingdoms suggesting the new alliance matrix might be a little different? What do you guys think about aliances? I am in the process of building a few armies after getting back into mesgb. (has been almost 5 years!) Struggling with how to decide whether its a bad time to build anything except pure armies, until we know the alliance matrix. Lothlorien is my main currently, and planning to strengthen it with an alliance to fellowship
Massive RIP to Kardush, one of my favourites for sure! Was great to have a consistent Shaman with a unique spell and a great set of rules. Trust in the process! -Alex
I don't think this has anything to do with license issue. It is far to random for that. For example Mauhur is both in the book AND the movie, but he goes.
End of the day we have to see how the new edition and releases change the game, will certain units get updated sculpts we’ll have to see. Understandable people are gutted if their favourite army or faction was messed up with the legacy stuff. Erestor is the one I hate losing my the most! The newer FW orc characters going is a real shame they added more flavour to the game without hurting lore etc. Very pleased Rumil & Oraphin remained I play Loth basically every game and those two are heavily linked to lists. I’m happy the new Easterling stuff is staying purely because their models are fantastic and I love the idea of their profiles but yeah it’s inconsistent, like how did Gulivhar remain? Gundabads are going and being repacked as well apparently, think it’s a mix of licensing and also sales. One of the biggest things was the mount and shield changes that could be an annoying change
@@joshcoles1255I think they're 100% redoing Black nums otherwise the name change and the fact the blister is ugly as sin. It's also one of the biggest 3d STL sales in the mesbg range.
@@Chickenchicken46 I’m really hoping we’re both right 😂 with how good GW models can be now sculpts wise they could make Black Nums some of the best models in the range, considering they’re such a big part of the Mordor list (if they still are as good next edition) it makes sense, always hated how my knights don’t look like the foot troops
@@joshcoles1255 I really think there's been a debrief with new line saying they want models that are being sold by 3d third parties to be made officially by GW so shareholders can get more $$ so hopefully that kicks their sculpting team into full gear.
@@Chickenchicken46 I always try to buy GW stuff from them to show the game support (probably spend too much) but Black Nums were the first 3D printed stuff I ever bought purely because GW wouldn’t give me an alternative as those horrible old models weren’t ever available. Would be good for them to give us some stuff like you say that right now probably sells really well via proxies. I really believe we will get dwarf stuff in the future that replaces all the stuff we lost (as an elf player doesn’t really make much difference to my armies)
Think we have to remember GW has a networth of $3.9b (USD) I really don’t buy the stocking and production arguments - but I do understand it’s clearly a massive business and there are these decisions to make and shareholders to keep happy. I just wish they’d come out and say it rather than make up stuff about “licensing” which sounds like bs to me. Anywho I’ll remain optimist that the next edition will be the best edition yet and I have full confidence in Jay Clare
Really hoping for a new box black numenorians that would be a banger, but over its hard to know if i like this is or not, if we get loads of new shit to replace the things we lose now that's great but if we don't idk why i'd want to swap for the new edition. Also i really hope we don't just get a bunch of heroes that buff you troops in an aoe, that's boring IMO and you have to keep checking ranges every fucking time...
I’m very nervous I just hope they don’t take all the variation out… I don’t want the game to a beer and chips game. Also think is going to be so much better then evil with getting rid of alot of evils tricks
So biggest take aways so far is. Are rivendell getting that refresh as early as Q1 2025? If that wargear ststement is true then that army is worthless. Also black nums must be getting a new plastic release, the name change plus the fact the og foot models are white metal would usual mean they would go. But i think gw wants to remove that 3d printing market for them.
I really don't think I'd consider Rivendell to be worthless by any stretch of the imagination, even if Gil-Galad lost his horse. Very curious to see what happens regarding black nums, a plastic kit for them would be glorious to see. Alex
They are definitely excited to see the GB on there. They didn't love vsing my three GB's haha, I also think they are way too efficiently costed and probably needed to be reworked. Not often people had three of them on the table to find that out, though.
Only Jay and Sean were cheering. Tyler and I along with the rest of the Vic population is lamenting the loss of the big cow in the sky. Gonna miss seeing 4-5 on a table! Alex
I am heard to speak up for Khamul, he's the only named wraith in the lore. The other titled wraiths can go, and even their profiles, but at least keep the lore accurate Khamul, even as a generic wraith. Sad!
I doubt it's due to their competitive viability (otherwise Muzgur would've stayed). However, I wouldn't be surprised if it may be linked to the revenue of certain kits... Alex
Why are you so happy to see AoL go? It's an awesome, themey list based on the book lore. It's super cool and unique. And Muzgur is an awesome model. If you didn't like the rules for the LL those would have been rewritten anyway for the new edition.
I think the issue is with how we've seen GW write rules recently that there wouldn't have been enough of a change into the new edition from a stage where they're pretty easily the best army in the game and can make for some pretty negative play experiences (nothing like Black Riders or Vanquishers) if played in certain ways. I don't understand the removal of two decently new models, but don't hate the ramifications for Muzgur specifically. But then again, just my opinion! Alex
My best hope is that they've recognized that it's time for some new source books covering dwarves/the misty mountains and rohan/wotr stuff that hasn't been touched in forever. I mean other than the last alliance there really isnt a lot of new stuff they can do this edition. Last edition we already got a lot of repeat stuff. Deorwine and Elfhelm for example surviving while Grimbold and Erkenbrand go sounds a lot like theyre preparing for a re-release.
I hear the inconsistency argument a lot but im pretty sure they made this clear, profiles that are going into the armies of lotr and hobbit books are going to reflect the films and the armies that are going into the armies of middle earth are a bit more open. has everyone forgotten this? it seems to me that easterlings for example are going into the armies of middle earth so it doesnt matter that they are not lore or film specific
I'm not so scared that the culling of models will have a lasting impact on the game. What we see now is what we lose, we don't know yet what we gain. I get that losing some named heroes hurts (I'm midway building a Rivendell list built around Erestor and Gildor) but you can still use them as captain.
The skeleton that will make or break the game, at least for me, is the rulebook and the legion available.
The big one is what happens with the next range of culls. The list doesnt feel complete yet.
Someone mentioned Azog's watchtower is (weirdly) wargear not a profile... sooooooo maybe still TBD?
Woses not being touched, as well as hobbits or ruffians tells me that the new list format (legions only basically) was also a deciding factor in what is getting removed. My biggest gripe is just removing some cool models for sale. I hope there is either a legacies MTO somewhat regularly, or they release the digital files for cheap (very unlikely) so people can still buy and paint them for legacy tournaments or just to have as collection pieces.
Again, it does seem that the lack of communication about the new edition is causing more concerns because there are too many questions, than excitement. New models are great and all...but it's hard to get really excited when the community has so many concerns.
The list of models gone seems inconsistent with the information the community has.
Balin's expedition would have been absolutely perfect for the new list format.
@@_ccann i really hope we get that in the future, so sad to see him go
@@_ccann Agreed.
@@_ccannsurely there's a 2nd age and khazad supplement in the works for this edition, otherwise both Rivendell and khazad won't see much playtime
erestor and gildor have given rivendell some issues at 500pts, although they do use the term elven kingdoms suggesting the new alliance matrix might be a little different? What do you guys think about aliances? I am in the process of building a few armies after getting back into mesgb. (has been almost 5 years!) Struggling with how to decide whether its a bad time to build anything except pure armies, until we know the alliance matrix. Lothlorien is my main currently, and planning to strengthen it with an alliance to fellowship
At least my Rangers of the North keep their 10pts horses ❤️ gonna play them on December with Radi on Sleigh. Gonna be funky xD
Kardush going is such a bummer! But I am still hopeful for a positive change, trust in the process until proven otherwise I reckon.
Massive RIP to Kardush, one of my favourites for sure! Was great to have a consistent Shaman with a unique spell and a great set of rules. Trust in the process!
-Alex
I don't think this has anything to do with license issue. It is far to random for that. For example Mauhur is both in the book AND the movie, but he goes.
End of the day we have to see how the new edition and releases change the game, will certain units get updated sculpts we’ll have to see.
Understandable people are gutted if their favourite army or faction was messed up with the legacy stuff.
Erestor is the one I hate losing my the most! The newer FW orc characters going is a real shame they added more flavour to the game without hurting lore etc.
Very pleased Rumil & Oraphin remained I play Loth basically every game and those two are heavily linked to lists. I’m happy the new Easterling stuff is staying purely because their models are fantastic and I love the idea of their profiles but yeah it’s inconsistent, like how did Gulivhar remain?
Gundabads are going and being repacked as well apparently, think it’s a mix of licensing and also sales.
One of the biggest things was the mount and shield changes that could be an annoying change
They should really redo the Black Num models the old ones are horrible and don’t exactly line up with the plastic mounted kit
@@joshcoles1255I think they're 100% redoing Black nums otherwise the name change and the fact the blister is ugly as sin. It's also one of the biggest 3d STL sales in the mesbg range.
@@Chickenchicken46 I’m really hoping we’re both right 😂 with how good GW models can be now sculpts wise they could make Black Nums some of the best models in the range, considering they’re such a big part of the Mordor list (if they still are as good next edition) it makes sense, always hated how my knights don’t look like the foot troops
@@joshcoles1255 I really think there's been a debrief with new line saying they want models that are being sold by 3d third parties to be made officially by GW so shareholders can get more $$ so hopefully that kicks their sculpting team into full gear.
@@Chickenchicken46 I always try to buy GW stuff from them to show the game support (probably spend too much) but Black Nums were the first 3D printed stuff I ever bought purely because GW wouldn’t give me an alternative as those horrible old models weren’t ever available.
Would be good for them to give us some stuff like you say that right now probably sells really well via proxies.
I really believe we will get dwarf stuff in the future that replaces all the stuff we lost (as an elf player doesn’t really make much difference to my armies)
Think we have to remember GW has a networth of $3.9b (USD) I really don’t buy the stocking and production arguments - but I do understand it’s clearly a massive business and there are these decisions to make and shareholders to keep happy.
I just wish they’d come out and say it rather than make up stuff about “licensing” which sounds like bs to me.
Anywho I’ll remain optimist that the next edition will be the best edition yet and I have full confidence in Jay Clare
Really hoping for a new box black numenorians that would be a banger, but over its hard to know if i like this is or not, if we get loads of new shit to replace the things we lose now that's great but if we don't idk why i'd want to swap for the new edition.
Also i really hope we don't just get a bunch of heroes that buff you troops in an aoe, that's boring IMO and you have to keep checking ranges every fucking time...
I’m very nervous I just hope they don’t take all the variation out… I don’t want the game to a beer and chips game. Also think is going to be so much better then evil with getting rid of alot of evils tricks
Tin foil hat activated: New Black Numbs with Black Guard of Baradur model style Shields?
So biggest take aways so far is.
Are rivendell getting that refresh as early as Q1 2025? If that wargear ststement is true then that army is worthless.
Also black nums must be getting a new plastic release, the name change plus the fact the og foot models are white metal would usual mean they would go. But i think gw wants to remove that 3d printing market for them.
I really don't think I'd consider Rivendell to be worthless by any stretch of the imagination, even if Gil-Galad lost his horse. Very curious to see what happens regarding black nums, a plastic kit for them would be glorious to see.
Alex
I bet you guys were cheering when you saw the great beast on there 🤣. RIP my GT list
They are definitely excited to see the GB on there. They didn't love vsing my three GB's haha, I also think they are way too efficiently costed and probably needed to be reworked. Not often people had three of them on the table to find that out, though.
Only Jay and Sean were cheering. Tyler and I along with the rest of the Vic population is lamenting the loss of the big cow in the sky. Gonna miss seeing 4-5 on a table!
Alex
Floi is not a GW invention
I am heard to speak up for Khamul, he's the only named wraith in the lore. The other titled wraiths can go, and even their profiles, but at least keep the lore accurate Khamul, even as a generic wraith. Sad!
Easterlings didn't get wrecked because the new edition is being written by completive players.
I doubt it's due to their competitive viability (otherwise Muzgur would've stayed). However, I wouldn't be surprised if it may be linked to the revenue of certain kits...
Alex
@@MtnGoatGamingagree - the almighty dollar has probably spoken loudest here
@@MtnGoatGaming If there was a single army that sells best as a collectors piece, Easterlings would be my first guess, I bet they sell really well.
Why are you so happy to see AoL go? It's an awesome, themey list based on the book lore. It's super cool and unique. And Muzgur is an awesome model. If you didn't like the rules for the LL those would have been rewritten anyway for the new edition.
I think the issue is with how we've seen GW write rules recently that there wouldn't have been enough of a change into the new edition from a stage where they're pretty easily the best army in the game and can make for some pretty negative play experiences (nothing like Black Riders or Vanquishers) if played in certain ways. I don't understand the removal of two decently new models, but don't hate the ramifications for Muzgur specifically. But then again, just my opinion!
Alex