Nice episode, two things: I think oranguru might be worse than y’all remember. It was broken in zoroark, then was broken in Pidgeotto Control, then it was banned in expanded after it won a major, then it continued to be a menace with cincinno mill to the point where it got Belbeba and Bryceman banned. It was a single prizer deck that didn’t take prizes and still laugh at ADP, as Curtis said, crushing gamer is ok, playing multiple crushing hammers every turn is a lot worse. And for what is worth any friendly format like GLC also bans the damn thing. The second thing is that I would contend that the original EXs were just as bad as Tag Teams. I am also nostalgic for that era but replaying it is atrocious. It also turn the game into this degen ko fest. It doesn’t seem as grandiose as with tag team but decks like CMT had a good chance of just donking. I rather play some of the tag team formats (like sswh or team up) over most BW formats w/EXs
I think you are probably right about Oranguru. It definitely enabled some crazy toxic combos. It is kind of wild how long it took people to catch on to how broken it was. I also agree the EXs were horrible. The BW block is definitely when the design philosophy of the tcg shifted. 2012 is up there for worst formats ever. I think Team Up format was actually ok for the most part, but it got so bad once Welder came out. - Ciaran
Unfortunately Curtis's mike wasn't good the first half of the video. I tried my best to fix it when editing, but I couldn't salvage it :(. Glad you still enjoyed the episode though! - Ciaran
It's interesting to see how many of these cards are broken, even outside of their own formats. Looking at the cards you guys mentioned and comparing that list with the Eternal format ban list we see: Super Energy Removal - Banned Energy Removal - Banned Mewtwo-EX - Legal Marshadow SLG - Banned Giratina PL - Banned Shaymin-EX - Banned Battle VIP Pass - Legal Forest of Giant Plants - Banned Broken Time-Space - Banned Hypnotoxic Laser - Legal Erika's Jigglypuff - Legal Pokémon Catcher - Legal (Errata w/ Coin Flip) Gust of Wind - Banned Sableye SF - Banned Rocket's Sneak Attack - Banned The Rocket's Trap - Banned Lysandre's Trump Card - Banned Arceus & Dialga & Palkia-GX - Banned Welder - Legal Oranguru UPR - Banned Lt. Surge's Strategy - Banned Red Card - Banned Delinquent - Banned Jessie & James - Banned Mars - Legal Chip-Chip Ice Axe - Banned Bellelba & Brycen-Man - Banned Slowking N1 - Banned (Because of the mistranslation w/ no errata) Double Colorless Energy - Legal Seismitoad-EX - Banned Stantler UF - Legal Sky Field - Legal Power Spray - Legal
Thats pretty crazy actually. Really shows what the game would be like if Pokemon was more ban active in standard, some really warping cards here could've been banished and changed formats like we knew em - Aneil
ayo, 1000 subs, crazy!! congratz guys, also great episode! kinda sucks that the audio was a bit scuffed at the start but regardless, really cool discussion.
I will be happy to support you guys on patreon or youtube once this will be possible I really enjoy you guys content!! Even if you guys are from Toronto
Thank you for at least mentioning Broken Time Space when talking about Forest of Giant Plants. I think it should be required to talk about that card whenever FoGPs is brought up. However, I think that aspect alone showing that the card was functionally printed in the past shows why it wasn't a worst designed card of all time following the logic of having a similar card printed in the past. It would either be Broken time space is badly designed or neither or them are.
That's the hard thing about making lists like these. Cards are only as broken as the cards that exist with them. VS Seeker was a niche card in the ex/dp era, but in my opinion one of the biggest issues during the XY block. BTS enabled some strong combos, but nothing truly game breaking/unhealthy. I decided to rank cards relative to their era instead of just in a vacuum. - Ciaran
Have you ever played a format without it? Its really interesting how different Pokemon feels. I do think for the modern game Boss is probably a staple though!
Great idea for an episode, though I would recommend reading what the cards do if you're hoping to reach audio only listeners. It's challenging to follow the discussion for those less familiar with the cards.
Speaking on the energy removal, me and my friend play base-neo once a week and I play an alakazam deck and I have never successfully powered it up as an attacker yet
Sorry for it being a bit late. We recorded late last night and Aneil and I had busy work schedules during the day. Glad we were able to get it out today though! - Ciaran
I think as time goes on Iron Hands ex will at least be an Honorable mention. It effectively does a similar thing as ADP in gatekeeping single prize decks, and being one electric and 3 colorless it is so easy to put into meta decks that really didn't need to get any better than they already were.
@@hiddenmosaic I thought a lot about Hands, it was on my list as HMs I just don’t have enough of a case to make for it in the current point of it’s lifespan - Aneil
We made a Shiftgear Discord server. If you want to come chat and ask questions with the Shiftgear community join at the link below: discord.gg/jNWqp24H
Vs seeker is a super interesting card. In its first two printings it saw little play, but in the XY era I think it was one of the unhealthiest cards in the format. XY era had so many broken tech supporters (delinquent, AZ, Hex Maniac, etc...) that the card was too good. I think XY would have been a lot better without it! - Ciaran
Really sorry about that, next time I'll do a better job testing the audio. When we recorded Curtis's mic didn't sound as underwater as it does in the video :( - Ciaran
ADP as number one is crazy, the card was hardly played before zacian and definitely wasn't overly good. I don't think the game has been as fun ever since pokemon v came out and it's only getting worse. charizard is one of the dumbest cards ever and pidgeot let's people play the dumbest greediest decks. I think people have the opposite of nostalgia for tag team format because of zacian ADP and bellelba brycenman
The list is moreso about worst designed cards, not necessarily the best. ADP was definitely tier one in it's time, but the reason it is number one is that it completely pushed out single prize decks and accelerated games. I don't think Charizard or Pidgeot are poor cards, both require setup and need to be built around. - Ciaran
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Nice episode, two things:
I think oranguru might be worse than y’all remember. It was broken in zoroark, then was broken in Pidgeotto Control, then it was banned in expanded after it won a major, then it continued to be a menace with cincinno mill to the point where it got Belbeba and Bryceman banned. It was a single prizer deck that didn’t take prizes and still laugh at ADP, as Curtis said, crushing gamer is ok, playing multiple crushing hammers every turn is a lot worse. And for what is worth any friendly format like GLC also bans the damn thing.
The second thing is that I would contend that the original EXs were just as bad as Tag Teams. I am also nostalgic for that era but replaying it is atrocious. It also turn the game into this degen ko fest. It doesn’t seem as grandiose as with tag team but decks like CMT had a good chance of just donking. I rather play some of the tag team formats (like sswh or team up) over most BW formats w/EXs
I think you are probably right about Oranguru. It definitely enabled some crazy toxic combos. It is kind of wild how long it took people to catch on to how broken it was.
I also agree the EXs were horrible. The BW block is definitely when the design philosophy of the tcg shifted. 2012 is up there for worst formats ever. I think Team Up format was actually ok for the most part, but it got so bad once Welder came out. - Ciaran
must be just my speakers or something, but i legit can't understand most of what curtis is saying for the first half of this vid :( great ep tho!
Not just your speakers.
Unfortunately Curtis's mike wasn't good the first half of the video. I tried my best to fix it when editing, but I couldn't salvage it :(. Glad you still enjoyed the episode though! - Ciaran
It's interesting to see how many of these cards are broken, even outside of their own formats. Looking at the cards you guys mentioned and comparing that list with the Eternal format ban list we see:
Super Energy Removal - Banned
Energy Removal - Banned
Mewtwo-EX - Legal
Marshadow SLG - Banned
Giratina PL - Banned
Shaymin-EX - Banned
Battle VIP Pass - Legal
Forest of Giant Plants - Banned
Broken Time-Space - Banned
Hypnotoxic Laser - Legal
Erika's Jigglypuff - Legal
Pokémon Catcher - Legal (Errata w/ Coin Flip)
Gust of Wind - Banned
Sableye SF - Banned
Rocket's Sneak Attack - Banned
The Rocket's Trap - Banned
Lysandre's Trump Card - Banned
Arceus & Dialga & Palkia-GX - Banned
Welder - Legal
Oranguru UPR - Banned
Lt. Surge's Strategy - Banned
Red Card - Banned
Delinquent - Banned
Jessie & James - Banned
Mars - Legal
Chip-Chip Ice Axe - Banned
Bellelba & Brycen-Man - Banned
Slowking N1 - Banned (Because of the mistranslation w/ no errata)
Double Colorless Energy - Legal
Seismitoad-EX - Banned
Stantler UF - Legal
Sky Field - Legal
Power Spray - Legal
Thats pretty crazy actually. Really shows what the game would be like if Pokemon was more ban active in standard, some really warping cards here could've been banished and changed formats like we knew em - Aneil
ayo, 1000 subs, crazy!! congratz guys, also great episode! kinda sucks that the audio was a bit scuffed at the start but regardless, really cool discussion.
Much thanks to you being a supporter from day 1! It does suck, wish we could fix it but it is what it is - Aneil
I will be happy to support you guys on patreon or youtube once this will be possible I really enjoy you guys content!! Even if you guys are from Toronto
@@pietrobarthelemy8531 Appreciate you!! Definitely looking into something like that, “even if you guys are from Toronto” killed me 😂 - Aneil
Thank you for at least mentioning Broken Time Space when talking about Forest of Giant Plants. I think it should be required to talk about that card whenever FoGPs is brought up.
However, I think that aspect alone showing that the card was functionally printed in the past shows why it wasn't a worst designed card of all time following the logic of having a similar card printed in the past. It would either be Broken time space is badly designed or neither or them are.
That's the hard thing about making lists like these. Cards are only as broken as the cards that exist with them. VS Seeker was a niche card in the ex/dp era, but in my opinion one of the biggest issues during the XY block. BTS enabled some strong combos, but nothing truly game breaking/unhealthy. I decided to rank cards relative to their era instead of just in a vacuum. - Ciaran
Love this episode, i didn't play when most of these cards were out. Boss's Order is must in the game.
Have you ever played a format without it? Its really interesting how different Pokemon feels. I do think for the modern game Boss is probably a staple though!
Great idea for an episode, though I would recommend reading what the cards do if you're hoping to reach audio only listeners. It's challenging to follow the discussion for those less familiar with the cards.
I tried my best to remember to describe cards, but I will keep it mind for future episodes!
Hit us with a top 10 sets or top 10 card arts episode
@@rafalgladysz4137 Yoooo I like this alot - Aneil
if lass ain’t here imma crash out
We considered it, but decided the Rocket cards were even more toxic! - Ciaran
Speaking on the energy removal, me and my friend play base-neo once a week and I play an alakazam deck and I have never successfully powered it up as an attacker yet
@@noahschuler1205 Feels so bad man 🤣 - Aneil
Great episode!
Thank god the new episode came out Ive been bored all day
Sorry for it being a bit late. We recorded late last night and Aneil and I had busy work schedules during the day. Glad we were able to get it out today though! - Ciaran
@@ShiftGearPodcast No problem I live in calafornia so it came out around lunch
I think as time goes on Iron Hands ex will at least be an Honorable mention. It effectively does a similar thing as ADP in gatekeeping single prize decks, and being one electric and 3 colorless it is so easy to put into meta decks that really didn't need to get any better than they already were.
@@hiddenmosaic I thought a lot about Hands, it was on my list as HMs I just don’t have enough of a case to make for it in the current point of it’s lifespan - Aneil
We made a Shiftgear Discord server. If you want to come chat and ask questions with the Shiftgear community join at the link below:
discord.gg/jNWqp24H
What do yall think of VS seeker?
Vs seeker is a super interesting card. In its first two printings it saw little play, but in the XY era I think it was one of the unhealthiest cards in the format. XY era had so many broken tech supporters (delinquent, AZ, Hex Maniac, etc...) that the card was too good. I think XY would have been a lot better without it! - Ciaran
Seems like the current meta is much more healthy
100%, I've been saying for a while that the 2024 meta have been the best metagames in recent history but not everyone is on board yet - Aneil
Bro I lost it at rock ‘em sock ‘em robots
Perfect time to watch before banana cup
@@jackwong8425 there’s never a better time - Aneil
"what happened to the game I love" lmao
Well done good watch , and good takes nice to see some dudes my age talking bout this lol 😢
Old heads stand up! - Aneil
klingklang enjoyer in the chat
Just sitting here waiting to see where adp goes 🤭
You already know without even needing to watch - Aneil
I want to listen to yall but the mic quality is so bad I legitimately can't make it through the episode. Especially curtis
Really sorry about that, next time I'll do a better job testing the audio. When we recorded Curtis's mic didn't sound as underwater as it does in the video :( - Ciaran
Adp was fine pre swsh base set (so upr to cec) i honestly thought n1 would be toad lol
ADP as number one is crazy, the card was hardly played before zacian and definitely wasn't overly good. I don't think the game has been as fun ever since pokemon v came out and it's only getting worse. charizard is one of the dumbest cards ever and pidgeot let's people play the dumbest greediest decks. I think people have the opposite of nostalgia for tag team format because of zacian ADP and bellelba brycenman
The list is moreso about worst designed cards, not necessarily the best. ADP was definitely tier one in it's time, but the reason it is number one is that it completely pushed out single prize decks and accelerated games. I don't think Charizard or Pidgeot are poor cards, both require setup and need to be built around. - Ciaran
klingklang enjoyer in the chat